Author Topic: What's up with the CTRL key in this model M? (Read 4490 times)

Special K · « **on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 15:38:10 »

I'm looking at Model M's on ebay and came across this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270415613018

If you look closely at the right side CTRL button, it looks like it says "CTRL/---", where the dashes indicate characters that I can't read in the photo because the quality isn't good enough.

Can anyone tell what those characters are? Is this a special or modified 1391401? I thought the normal ones had plain identical left and right CTRL keys.

The difference may be inconsequential, but I'm shopping around for a used Model M to try my first BS keyboard and it seems you have to pay very careful attention to the ad and pics to be sure of what you are getting. There seems to be very subtle differences in many of the Model M's for sale.

watduzhkstand4 · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 15:39:10 »

the word is so long...

ch_123 · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 15:43:36 »

IBM made ones with customized key markings (here's an example for airline check-in desks) that were otherwise bog-standard '1401s. From the picture, and the description, I see that it has a PS/2 plug, to the best of my knowledge (and I've seen most of the weird and wonderful variants they've made of the M and F), IBM never made any non-PC compatible keyboard that used a PS/2 plug, or even anything that looked like one.

Of course, to be completely certain, I'd send the seller a mail asking him what the model number on the back is... Even that can be misleading, because ones with different markings may have had different model numbers in some circumstances (as you can see from that airline one)

talis · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 16:40:30 »

Looks like its Ctrl/Act:

IBM Model M 51G8572, or at least in the same family.

timw4mail · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 16:44:53 »

Wait, some Model M's actually had speakers? What for?

Special K · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 16:48:42 »

Quote from: talis;100542

Looks like its Ctrl/Act:

IBM Model M 51G8572, or at least in the same family.

What is the purpose of the ACT button?

I didn't even realize the seller didn't include a pic of the back of the keyboard. I guess this isn't a true 1391401 after all.

Either sellers just copy their Model M listings from others and don't realize that the 1391401 only applies to certain models, or they know that the 1391401 is the most common model, so they include that in their description just to draw more hits when people search for it.

Special K · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 16:49:24 »

Quote from: timw4mail;100543

Wait, some Model M's actually had speakers? What for?

Yeah, I thought that was very strange also. Why does a keyboard need a speaker?

Special K · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 16:50:54 »

On the other hand, here is a 51G8572 that does NOT have the CTRL/ACT button:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-IBM-clicky-M-keyboard-P%2FN-51G8572-W%2FB50_W0QQitemZ270408716581QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090616?IMSfp=TL090616037012r31338

Also this one has a blue IBM logo, whereas the one in my OP has a gray IBM logo. I thought all of the gray IBM logo Model M's were the original 1391401's?

Wow, shopping for Model M's is confusing.

itlnstln · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 16:54:47 »

The speakers were used on the terminals more so than PCs and, from what I remember, all they really did was beep when you pressed a key to acknowledge said keypress. If they did any more than that, I would be both unaware and suprised.

The sad thing is that I am old enough to remember this.

The even more sad thing is that my company still has these terminals in use. Most of us use terminal emulators (3270s), though. Mainframes are still the masters of uptime. Unfortunately, I have been dealing with the reprocussions of our mainframe's job scheduler crashing last night. Ugh.

talis · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 17:05:00 »

Its probably a vanilla 401 with either a key transplant, or that just came standard with the different ctrl/act markings.

I'm not familiar with the Ctrl/Act key, but the 51G8572s seemed to have shipped with old RS/6000 machines.

Special K · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 17:05:08 »

I just received a reply from the seller. Apparently the text is actually "CTRL/ALT", and the photo shown in that auction is not for the keyboard that is actually for sale. The keyboard for sale is apparently a plain 1391401. I asked the seller if they could include a photo of the actual keyboard for sale, including a photo of the sticker on the back that includes the model number, manufacture date, etc.

But what 1391401 has a CTRL/ALT key, and why would you even need such a key? You already have a CTRL and an ALT key on each side.

talis · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 01 July 2009, 17:08:06 »

Well, that answers that (for the record, I still think that looks like /Act not /Alt in the picture).

Shawn Stanford · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 02 July 2009, 07:03:43 »

Quote from: webwit;100554

Just for fun, weird key caps on the Model M 1390123. Terminal board. Very nice keys, just like the 1390120.

Nothing weird about those!

sixty · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 02 July 2009, 12:05:19 »

I have one of the 51G8572 here. I got this from eBay Germany as a used board a few days ago. To my surprised it arrived and turned out as brand new. I assume the seller has switched the keyboard to a German layout one when he had purchased the RS/6000 or something.

This one comes with the "Ctrl/Act" key - I guess the seller of your eBay auction simply misread it as Alt. Here is a pic from the board I have:

This model indeed does have a speaker build in at the bottom:

I have been trying to find some info to see if its possible to use the speaker somehow.. for something. Besides some old news groups post that don't help at all I found out that if I plugin the PS2 cable on just a few pins both the internal speaker and the pc speaker in my PC start beeping. However with the cable properly connected nothing happens at all.

Special K · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 02 July 2009, 12:10:39 »

Quote from: sixty;100756

I have one of the 51G8572 here. I got this from eBay Germany as a used board a few days ago. To my surprised it arrived and turned out as brand new. I assume the seller has switched the keyboard to a German layout one when he had purchased the RS/6000 or something.

This one comes with the "Ctrl/Act" key - I guess the seller of your eBay auction simply misread it as Alt. Here is a pic from the board I have:

Show Image

This model indeed does have a speaker build in at the bottom:

Show Image

I have been trying to find some info to see if its possible to use the speaker somehow.. for something. Besides some old news groups post that don't help at all I found out that if I plugin the PS2 cable on just a few pins both the internal speaker and the pc speaker in my PC start beeping. However with the cable properly connected nothing happens at all.

So what does the "Act" key actually do?

I agree that the seller was probably mistaken in thinking the key said "Alt". Now that I look at his photo again, it does look like the word "Act".

lal · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 02 July 2009, 12:14:20 »

One of my M minis does have a Ctl/Act key, too. I've googled for its meaning but didn't find an exhaustive answer. I think I read somewhere that "Act" stands for "Action". May have been something to do with terminals or some other old systems. Sandy, you're here?

talis · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 02 July 2009, 13:04:32 »

Quote from: sixty;100756

I have been trying to find some info to see if its possible to use the speaker somehow.. for something. Besides some old news groups post that don't help at all I found out that if I plugin the PS2 cable on just a few pins both the internal speaker and the pc speaker in my PC start beeping. However with the cable properly connected nothing happens at all.

There has to be a command to cause the speaker to beep, but one doesn't exist in the standard PS/2 spec. Its likely to either be a completely separate command (starting at 0xEC or lower), or it uses one of the flag bits for the LED status register (0xED + [0 0 0 0 0 C N S] for caps, num, scroll lights, the other bits are unimplemented and always zero in the standard PS/2 spec. It's possible they are being used to toggle the speaker beep). Likely its a different command.

itlnstln · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 02 July 2009, 13:14:37 »

Quote from: ripster;100762

And BigPook's blue Ctrl key is da most awesome. Want.

You don't think the green Alt is cool? My Northgate had blue printing on the Ctrl key, green on the Alt and red on the Esc.

timw4mail · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 02 July 2009, 14:58:20 »

Quote from: ripster;100797

That spells Victoly?! And I defend Wikipedia with a wet noodle!

Like the Dip Switches. Maybe that's why Topre still uses them.

Tradition
Show Image

P.S. Do NOT take the fingers as an insult. :kev:

They are just index fingers :p

itlnstln · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 02 July 2009, 15:02:56 »

That Hebrew smiley is a little disturbing.

News:

Author Topic: What's up with the CTRL key in this model M? (Read 4490 times)