Buckling Spring Floss Mod

[instantkamera]

This is actually a pretty cool and simple mod, I may try it. Anyone know where to get that **** in Canada, say shoppers or something?

[doebedoe]

Just did my first floss-mod to a particularly pingy Model M. Used Super Floss per th tutorial, which I found at my local CVS for under $4. Plenty left-over to mod my m13 when it arrives.

I haven't noticed much of a different in the feel of keys, still very tactile. Click on the way down is still quite nice. Just no key-release pings. Where I cut a piece of floss too long, some deadening or extra stiffness is noticeable -- but those keys were easy to fix by just taking a few millimeters off.

Thanks for this really clever, simple and reversible mod.

[turkey]

Geez, I'm not sure how you guys are having such an easy time simply snipping off floss and dropping it straight down into those buckling springs. I bought the same Oral-B Superfloss that skcheng showed in his starting post, but I am finding that the Unicomp buckling springs have an inner diameter that is smaller than the outer diameter of the Oral-B Superfloss' fuzzy section. The fuzzy section simply refuses to just simply be dropped down the interior of the springs.

I practically have to use the stiff section of the Oral-B Superfloss to stuff the fuzzy section into a spring's interior. Doing so is a rather tedious effort — stuffing two springs took thirty minutes, and there're a hundred more springs to go!

Also, I am finding that I can't really tell whether or not the spring has been fully stuffed with the fuzzy section of the Oral-B Superfloss just by looking, so the only thing I can do is to keep pushing more in with the stiff section of the Oral-B Superfloss until even that buckles (pardon the pun) under the strain. Stuffing just two springs in this way uses up the entire fuzzy section of a single strand of Oral-B Superfloss. Key response is still very good with no stiffness and the tactile click is still present, but the metallic ping of the spring is gone. At this rate, I will have to buy another box of Oral-B Superfloss to be able to stuff the last four springs.

I guess I could buy the thinner Oral-B Ultrafloss — perhaps that is the kind that can be just dropped straight into the springs, without having to resort to stuffing.

[turkey]

Okay, skcheng was definitely right about needing a sharp pair of scissors to snip the Oral-B Superfloss, as a clean cut greatly reduces any blooming or mushrooming of the cut ends. I used a pair of FISKARS Micro-Tip Scissors (with titanium nitride coating) to make the cuts. The cut floss can then be dropped into the centre of the buckling springs without any problems.

I've also found out that the length of the floss needed for the Unicomp buckling springs is approximately 16mm ± 0·5mm. Each strand of Oral-B Superfloss will yield six or seven pieces of this length of floss from its fuzzy section, more than enough for two entire 104-key Unicomp buckling spring keyboards.

[tobydeemer]

Hey everyone-

While I hate to bring back a zombie thread yet again, this one seems like a common "periodically updated" kind of thing. In any event, I tried the Superfloss on my 1987 Model M. And I am genuinely surprised at how real the difference is. From various audio clips I'd come across, I wasn't sure how noticeable it would be. There's still the overall noise from the occasional bottoming out,  and the space bar clatter though it is still more muted. But the "pinginess" is almost completely gone. I've taken to using one of a couple scissor boards at work, due to the noise. Now however, I think I'd be able to get the M back in there where it belongs.  :-)

For the mod, I used a 'full length' measure of floss. I took a strand, snipped off the longer non-foam string and used the shorter stiff end as a sort of handle. Then I fed into a spring, snipped off right at the top, and replaced the key. Did the whole board in maybe 45 minutes or so. Wasn't tracking too closely. Anyway, the feel is no more stiff than before, and if anything, is a little... smoother, maybe?

All in all, I am actually really impressed with this mod, which seems to be a common reaction. Good bang for the buck and the effort, for sure.

Just my $.02.

Heh, if I really get the bug, I'll go for some dampening rubber sheets and a bolt mod. One mod at a time.

Cheers.

[fohat.digs]

I have been raving about the ease and effectiveness of this mod for months.

When I get out my unflossed M/Fs, they feel great and all, but the sound gets to me eventually. There is a solidity added to the feel in spite of the noise reduction, probably related to "chatter" or "resonance" whatever word you use to define that concept.

Floss for buckling springs and o-rings for Cherries are the mods that are near-essential in my book, now.

PS - you have to make a clean cut and hit the insertion on the first try. after you bunch up the fibers on the leading end you are unlikely to succeed, unless you just get lucky.

[urbanus]

I guess I could buy the thinner Oral-B Ultrafloss — perhaps that is the kind that can be just dropped straight into the springs, without having to resort to stuffing.

I'd like to report success with Ultra Floss.

It doesn't exactly drop straight in, but it slides in with little difficulty (sometimes requiring a couple of attempts).  The effect is as reported here: the ping is gone, and the click is slightly softer.  I don't think it affects the feel of the keys much, if at all.  It also masks some of the subtle variations in sounds between different keys that you typically find on model M boards.

The effect on old silver label and white label model Ms is more pronounced than on Unicomp boards, because Unicomps ping less.  However even for Unicomps it's a noticeable enhancement.

[fabioruxo]

Just applied the mod to my 1991 model M. I must say I love it! Ultra floss is the way to go for me (tried super but got no real significant change). I have cut the floss to be exactly the same length as the springs themselves and maintained the click sound but got rid completely of the loud metallic spring resonance. Two things: 1) The feel is slightly different to me. It's like I used to bottom out more often without the mod.. while now the keys feel a little "softer" and it's as if they sprung back quicker and keeping closer to the surface (they feel more like cherry browns, but sound more like blues). It might be just my personal feeling though. 2) The sound is way different. It's a little more "muffled" and even more "plastic" than before (because the metallic spring clang is mostly gone) but I must say I love it this way. And it sure is better at night when my 2yr old daughter is asleep ;-)

[unicomp_uc]

Bringing back a dead thread to simply say: I just did this mod on my Unicomp and what an awesome difference. I love the tactile feel of the keys, but unless you are an ultimate die hard; the ping and reverberation can be come a bit much at times (exasperated when you are hungover, tired, have a headache, are irritated, etc. lol).

This mod has turned my Uni from a fun, side board to a legitimate contender for desk time with my HHKB... Good stuff!

[cub3y]

Im going to try this on my Model M keyboard. I just got my first mx mechanical board a few days ago (Filco Majestouch 2 with cherry mx browns) and while its amazing, it doesn't seem to compare to the feel of this board.

Will post my results once I can find some of this "fluffy" floss

[fohat.digs]

Will post my results once I can find some of this "fluffy" floss

At Walgreens it is about $5 and that is enough to do at least a couple of boards.

[GeorgeK]

Thought I should resurrect this thread rather than start a new one )

I'm currently in the process of floss modding my SSK after having given it a clean and the keycaps a good denture bath at the weekend - the difference is amazing   You still get the click and the tactile feel but without anything ringing like a bell!  I'd suggest it to anyone with the patience to do it - in my experience it's very temperamental - too much floss and you lose the click altogether...  Here's a video comparing before and after

and a nice (albeit potato) work in progress pic

[dgreekstallion]

Bumping this good thread.

[Photoelectric]

Thought I should resurrect this thread rather than start a new one )

I'm currently in the process of floss modding my SSK after having given it a clean and the keycaps a good denture bath at the weekend - the difference is amazing   You still get the click and the tactile feel but without anything ringing like a bell!  I'd suggest it to anyone with the patience to do it - in my experience it's very temperamental - too much floss and you lose the click altogether...  Here's a video comparing before and after

"This video is private"

[aref]

I did this mod to a formerly owned Lexmark manufactured Model M, it took the ping out of the keyboard. I found my Lexmark-made full-size Model M to sound much 'pingier' than IBM-manufactured full-size Model Ms. After the mod, the Lexmark Model M sounded much like Unicomp's contemporary buckling-spring keyboards, 'pingless'.

[fohat.digs]

I think that it just attenuates the higher overtones. This is a much nicer and more satisfying mod on an F than an M.

Since the spring buckles in the middle, the floss needs to fill more than half of the height, and if it is any bit longer than the spring the stem will not seat properly (you would think that it would simply compress the floss, but no).

There are surprising variations of effect across that 60%-100% fill range.

[JPG]

I tried this mod after I started to use my F122 at job and I must say that it's amazing. You still ear the sound of the bottom out and some of the click when you actuate, yet it removes the ping/thing that resonates after and possibly lower the click of the actuation, but if so not by much. Yet it's still effective at making it not too loud and it still retains all the nice same feeling of the switches.

Also, very easy to do. Cut the pieces, put them in the spring, put the keycap back and your done!

BTW, I used super floss since it was the only available near me.

[Pacifist]

I'm too lazy to go to rite aid )

Should I get one pack: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oral-B-Super-Floss-50-pre-cut-strands-Dental-Floss-Damaged-box-/310872983771?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48617948db

or 4 pack? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oral-B-Super-Floss-4-Packs-200-Pre-Cut-Strands-New-SEALED-Damaged-Boxes-SAVE-/191067612041?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c7c846389

for one F XT, one M-122, and M-104?

[JPG]

You might be ok with one box, but it's hard to tell. 2 for sure, 3 I don't know but I really think so.

[Pacifist]

I'll grab the four pack, its much worth my money anyways

[fohat.digs]

Cut the pieces, put them in the spring, put the keycap back and your done!

If you have a small very sharp pair of scissors, I recommend putting the floss in whole and cutting it just at the top of the spring.

[GeorgeK]

I'm thinking of un floss modding my ssk.  Not sure I like how it's made the springs / switches / whatever feel much heavier.  I'd have to go back to it pinging like crazy but that may be the price to pay for it feeling 'right' again...  Anyone else swapped back?

Edit:

Thought I should resurrect this thread rather than start a new one )

I'm currently in the process of floss modding my SSK after having given it a clean and the keycaps a good denture bath at the weekend - the difference is amazing   You still get the click and the tactile feel but without anything ringing like a bell!  I'd suggest it to anyone with the patience to do it - in my experience it's very temperamental - too much floss and you lose the click altogether...  Here's a video comparing before and after

"This video is private"

Not sure why it's doing that tbh - will try to fix...

Edit 2:  Fixed I think

[Rainman]

Amazing mod... quick and effective. Thanks

[kako]

I used one strand of the super floss to mod 7 different keys - while it does take a lot of noise away, it also changes the mechanics a lot. The whole thing becomes softer and more numb and therefore provides less feedback. The worst for me is that it changes the height at which the spring collapses. Modded keys trigger sooner - if you press a modded and unmodded key down slowly at same rate, modded key will click first.

At least thats my experience (on restored, bolt modded ssk).

[fohat.digs]

The whole thing becomes softer and more numb and therefore provides less feedback.

This is why the mod is far less successful on the already-numb M than on the too-lively F.

The worst for me is that it changes the height at which the spring collapses. Modded keys trigger sooner - if you press a modded and unmodded key down slowly at same rate, modded key will click first.

To me, this is a big plus. I like high actuation points.

Also, the amount of floss has a big effect. It needs to come up halfway, because that is where the spring buckles. But there are big differences between 60%-70%-80%-90%-100% floss fills.

[kako]

To me, this is a big plus. I like high actuation points.

Also, the amount of floss has a big effect. It needs to come up halfway, because that is where the spring buckles. But there are big differences between 60%-70%-80%-90%-100% floss fills.

Sure. I don't want to rain on your parade, just providing some feedback on my experience.

I did try to cut one at about 50% and yes there is some difference - its looking a bit more promising but too early to tell from only one key. I need to figure out how to get the half strand out first, before I apply it to more keys. Seems hard to reach, maybe with vacuum cleaner.

[fohat.digs]

I need to figure out how to get the half strand out first, before I apply it to more keys. Seems hard to reach, maybe with vacuum cleaner.

Get a pin or needle and bend an extremely small hook in the end of it.

Or, if you fish, straighten out a hook and use the barb.

[kako]

I need to figure out how to get the half strand out first, before I apply it to more keys. Seems hard to reach, maybe with vacuum cleaner.

Get a pin or needle and bend an extremely small hook in the end of it.

Or, if you fish, straighten out a hook and use the barb.

Yes that worked out ok. For now I am back to completley flossless though.

[HipsterPunks]

All Aboard the Necro Train!

i decided to floss mod my 87' SSK yesterday so i shot a short video for those on the fence about whether or not they want to try it.
Alphas + Modifiers (minus the FRow) are flossed. Thanks for this how to skcheng i didnt think i could enjoy this board anymore until i felt 1piece caps w/ the floss mod

[dustinhxc]

All Aboard the Necro Train!

i decided to floss mod my 87' SSK yesterday so i shot a short video for those on the fence about whether or not they want to try it.
Alphas + Modifiers (minus the FRow) are flossed. Thanks for this how to skcheng i didnt think i could enjoy this board anymore until i felt 1piece caps w/ the floss mod

Hell Yeah, nice video man. Good job.. Also nice SSK!

[Hypersphere]

Did the floss mod on my IBM Model F XT. Used 14-mm pieces from the fuzzy section of Oral-B Super Floss. It completely removed the "ping", but I still get a nice metallic click and excellent tactile feedback. No problems. Highly recommended.

[snoopy]

Floss mod on F is even more awesome than on M (since my F is ready, I didn't even touch one of my SSKs)

[fohat.digs]

In my opinion, the Model F seems "alive" because it has 3 plates in compression and tension, steel-to-fiberglass-to-steel, created during the assembly process, while the Model M feels "limpid" at best because it has only 2, plastic-to-steel, with a "blanket" between them.

In terms of feel, the Model F takes a very small hit with flossing, and remains completely "alive" regardless. The Model M does not lose much spring, but starts from a much lower level.

In terms of sound, the F has many high pinging resonant overtones, which flossing dampens considerably, without changing the lower resonant base. The M, dampened by rubber/plastic already, has little to lose, and loses little.

[Oobly]

So badly want a Model F now...

I floss modded my M with full length pieces. It's too "dead" for my taste so I'll be shortening them a bit. It's nice that it's a "tweakable" mod

[Melvang]

Good sized Necro, but just wanted to throw up my floss modded video in the mix for my modded AT.

[Kad]

Good sized Necro, but just wanted to throw up my floss modded video in the mix for my modded AT.

Great video! This seems like a pretty cool idea. Does it feel any different to type on floss-modded buckling springs or is it mainly just an auditory difference?

[Melvang]

Good sized Necro, but just wanted to throw up my floss modded video in the mix for my modded AT.

Great video! This seems like a pretty cool idea. Does it feel any different to type on floss-modded buckling springs or is it mainly just an auditory difference?

It does affect it a tiny bit.  But I am doing this with F internals.  From what I have seen it affects the feel more and the auditory less with M internals.  I have not tried this on an M personally so I can't account for that. 

[protoword]

Thank you for this wonderful mod! Like others I realized that too much floss (up to the tip) can mess with the buckle. I snipped it down a wee bit. I then got neurotic about inconsistency across my modification-snips. But I'm trying not to be insane haha. Did it to my alphabet keys + spacebar but I let the others be. I enjoy the twang on my more seldom used keys. This is brilliant—thanks again!