[IC] SA SAIL (GB Live!)

[Rayndalf]

Did somebody say ergo blanks? Boardwalk support should be pretty easy to include (for all I know its already there, I'm a little lazy), and add a lot of utility. I was probably going to skip this, but boardwalk support has forced me to reconsider.

Blank mods gang rising

[Robosculpts]

Did somebody say ergo blanks? Boardwalk support should be pretty easy to include (for all I know its already there, I'm a little lazy), and add a lot of utility. I was probably going to skip this, but boardwalk support has forced me to reconsider.

Blank mods gang rising

+1 for Boardwalk support please!! This set would look rad on a Boardwalk/ Boardrun.

[Fredington]

Did somebody say ergo blanks? Boardwalk support should be pretty easy to include (for all I know its already there, I'm a little lazy), and add a lot of utility. I was probably going to skip this, but boardwalk support has forced me to reconsider.

Blank mods gang rising

Thank you for your input. I will definitely include Boardwalk support in the ergo kit if it gets added.

This actually gives me a good excuse to explain why I'm considering blank mods as opposed to legended mods specific to the SAIL theme...

For one (I know I said previously that blank mods would look unbalanced with the dual legended alphas), as I look at more and more vintage boards, I'm finding that blank mods combined with dual legend alphas aren't unheard of. So there is a historical precedent for this.

Secondly, an ergo kit with custom legends would add another 18 (19 with Boardwalk support) new molds to the already high mold count. Again, I will use SA Symbiosis 2.0 as an example...Symbiosis had 21(!) kits to help spread out the cost of the molds. Since SAIL is a monotone set, there are only 6 (maybe eight) kits amongst which to spread that cost. So you have a situation where instead of paying say a $4 premium per kit to cover the new molds, you're paying a premium of $8 per kit (these numbers are hypothetical). So I do not believe this set can support that many more molds, given the much smaller amount of kits offered. If an ergo kit gets added, it will be blanks.

Again, if you're seeing this for the first time, I've added a couple questions to the form. Please consider filling it out, even if you've already done so. Thank you.

[_rubik]

Not usually a huge SA fan, but this... this caught my eye. Definitely interested.

[Fredington]

OK, so 27 new responses (on top of edited ones) on the form in 24 hours is...actually pretty good this late into the IC. Let me know what you guys think of the below new kits:





Again, here's a link to the form if you haven't filled it out. Much appreciation to all who gave their input.

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

like that maths kit!

[horchata771]

I'm loving that math kit! The therefore key is quite practical to include.

[d00deitsnik]

+1 to the Math kit love. I liking the other keys you've added to the novelties kit since the IC form pictures.

[ideus]

It is a hard to resist set, even if it does not match the legends that I need. I think this type of sets are far and away of proper legends, by any means.

[nasp]

I know this doesn't quite make sense because there's already an ortho kit, but if you added 2, 1u r4 keys to the ergo kit, ortho folks could pick up that kit and a spacebar kit, and be good to go. Why would anyone do this? Perhaps some ortho folks also have an ergo board that uses 1.5u mods, or perhaps the ergo kit and spacebar kit combined will be cheaper than the ergo/40's kit, or perhaps they'd rather have blank mods.

Just something to think about.

[equalunique]

This is a pretty hot set. I love the similarities to space cadet.

Would an Assembly kit be offered or is that still in the works?

Well, I only got one request for an ergo kit in the interest check form.

I'm also not inclined to offer one for the following reasons:

• A modern assembly kit would not match well with these vintage-style legends.
• Blanks would look unbalanced due to the dual-legend nature of the alphas.
• Custom legends would add additional cost to the set and I'd like to keep it pretty tight.

At the end of the day, an ergo kit would depend on interest level and right now, it's lacking.

I will say though, that if I were to add an ergo kit, I would use forms and functions that are unique to Stanford LISP 1.6, the version of LISP used at SAIL. So if that piques your interest, all you ergo users better show up in the form!

I don't have a problem with a blank ergo kit, but I think an ergo kit with LISP legends like in SA Symbiosis would be better:

[Fredington]

This is a pretty hot set. I love the similarities to space cadet.

Would an Assembly kit be offered or is that still in the works?

Well, I only got one request for an ergo kit in the interest check form.

I'm also not inclined to offer one for the following reasons:

• A modern assembly kit would not match well with these vintage-style legends.
• Blanks would look unbalanced due to the dual-legend nature of the alphas.
• Custom legends would add additional cost to the set and I'd like to keep it pretty tight.

At the end of the day, an ergo kit would depend on interest level and right now, it's lacking.

I will say though, that if I were to add an ergo kit, I would use forms and functions that are unique to Stanford LISP 1.6, the version of LISP used at SAIL. So if that piques your interest, all you ergo users better show up in the form!

I don't have a problem with a blank ergo kit, but I think an ergo kit with LISP legends like in SA Symbiosis would be better:

Show Image

The SA Symbiosis ergo legends are unavailable to me to use. Thus, we would need new legends, which means new molds. I've already explained why this is unfeasible for a set like this, using SA Symbiosis as an example:

This actually gives me a good excuse to explain why I'm considering blank mods as opposed to legended mods specific to the SAIL theme...

For one (I know I said previously that blank mods would look unbalanced with the dual legended alphas), as I look at more and more vintage boards, I'm finding that blank mods combined with dual legend alphas aren't unheard of. So there is a historical precedent for this.

Secondly, an ergo kit with custom legends would add another 18 (19 with Boardwalk support) new molds to the already high mold count. Again, I will use SA Symbiosis 2.0 as an example...Symbiosis had 21(!) kits to help spread out the cost of the molds. Since SAIL is a monotone set, there are only 6 (maybe eight) kits amongst which to spread that cost. So you have a situation where instead of paying say a $4 premium per kit to cover the new molds, you're paying a premium of $8 per kit (these numbers are hypothetical). So I do not believe this set can support that many more molds, given the much smaller amount of kits offered. If an ergo kit gets added, it will be blanks.

[equalunique]

This is a pretty hot set. I love the similarities to space cadet.

Would an Assembly kit be offered or is that still in the works?

Well, I only got one request for an ergo kit in the interest check form.

I'm also not inclined to offer one for the following reasons:

• A modern assembly kit would not match well with these vintage-style legends.
• Blanks would look unbalanced due to the dual-legend nature of the alphas.
• Custom legends would add additional cost to the set and I'd like to keep it pretty tight.

At the end of the day, an ergo kit would depend on interest level and right now, it's lacking.

I will say though, that if I were to add an ergo kit, I would use forms and functions that are unique to Stanford LISP 1.6, the version of LISP used at SAIL. So if that piques your interest, all you ergo users better show up in the form!

I don't have a problem with a blank ergo kit, but I think an ergo kit with LISP legends like in SA Symbiosis would be better:

Show Image

The SA Symbiosis ergo legends are unavailable to me to use. Thus, we would need new legends, which means new molds. I've already explained why this is unfeasible for a set like this, using SA Symbiosis as an example:

This actually gives me a good excuse to explain why I'm considering blank mods as opposed to legended mods specific to the SAIL theme...

For one (I know I said previously that blank mods would look unbalanced with the dual legended alphas), as I look at more and more vintage boards, I'm finding that blank mods combined with dual legend alphas aren't unheard of. So there is a historical precedent for this.

Secondly, an ergo kit with custom legends would add another 18 (19 with Boardwalk support) new molds to the already high mold count. Again, I will use SA Symbiosis 2.0 as an example...Symbiosis had 21(!) kits to help spread out the cost of the molds. Since SAIL is a monotone set, there are only 6 (maybe eight) kits amongst which to spread that cost. So you have a situation where instead of paying say a $4 premium per kit to cover the new molds, you're paying a premium of $8 per kit (these numbers are hypothetical). So I do not believe this set can support that many more molds, given the much smaller amount of kits offered. If an ergo kit gets added, it will be blanks.

Ok thanks for the clarification. Blank legends it is.

Sent from my Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 using Tapatalk

[SteeleDynamics]

Will there be a 6u spacebar for HHKB layout?

[CherryTeam]

Pretty set 

[Fredington]

Will there be a 6u spacebar for HHKB layout?

No. SP have yet to make this mold.

I actually inquired about the possibility of getting the mold made. I even offered to pay for it like any of the other new molds in this set, but they simply said that it was on their list of (eventual) to-dos and they would not charge designers for it. Basically, I tried throwing money at the problem and it didn't work. It's quite a strange and unsatisfying answer TBH, but there you go.

[SteeleDynamics]

OK

Well, if/when SP decides to offer a 6u spacebar, maybe do another GB?

I may purchase anyways. Then buy the spacebar later. Very excited regardless!

[Fredington]

OK

Well, if/when SP decides to offer a 6u spacebar, maybe do another GB?

I may purchase anyways. Then buy the spacebar later. Very excited regardless!

If that happens I may offer a GB for the new spacebar only. Currently no plans for a R2 of this set.

[Fredington]

Updated and new renders have been added to the OP. These reflect the new Pantone color and refined legends mentioned previously.

Below is a comparison between the old color and the new color:



I've also officially added the novelty kit and the ergo blanks kit (w/ Boardwalk support).

See below for complete changelog:

--Added updated/new renders that reflect the new Pantone; a number of legends have been refined to be more reflective of the inspiration
--Added new Maths and Ergo Blanks kits (w/ Boardwalk support); replaced µ with ∇ in the Maths kit as I felt it fit better with the theme
--Moved the ∑s in the Alphas and Numpad into the new Maths kit
--Kits are now LOCKED for real (unless a mistake is found)

Please fill out the form if you haven't already, as it really helps determine the MOQ for each kit to achieve the lowest possible prices.

A GB date will be announced soon!

[horchata771]

Updated and new renders have been added to the OP. These reflect the new Pantone color and refined legends mentioned previously.

Below is a comparison between the old color and the new color:

Show Image

I've also officially added the novelty kit and the ergo blanks kit (w/ Boardwalk support).

Noice work on the sets and improved colors! Can't wait for the group buy to happen!

Out of curiosity, what's the lead time from the end of group buy to production of the caps? I know each company has their own capabilities, but what has SP said? I read an article on drop about them, and they mentioned it's kind of up in the air depending on what I presume is the complexity/size of the set. Just interested in learning as much as possible about this community, manufacturers included.

[nasp]

Color change looks great! I'll be excited to pick this one up and put on my Atlas 

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

Out of curiosity, what's the lead time from the end of group buy to production of the caps? I know each company has their own capabilities, but what has SP said? I read an article on drop about them, and they mentioned it's kind of up in the air depending on what I presume is the complexity/size of the set. Just interested in learning as much as possible about this community, manufacturers included.

SP SA Troubled minds had the group buy close at the end of May 2018 and I got them in my hands early April 2019. I think symbiosis was about that. SA violet on cream was just under 9.5 months. I think 10 months is reasonable for SAIL, and they’re not gonna tell you 12-13 months is likely, but I don’t think many with a few SA GB’s under their belt would be shocked at a year.

SA Laser closed at the end of May 2019. Drop said they’d ship in mid- November 2019, and people new to drop and SA believed that. I figure 9-10 months is about right (end of February 20 would be 9 months). This is a good one to see as they’ve got a lot of new molds for mitowaves and such.

[CherryTeam]

nice bro !

[Fredington]

Happy to announce that the GB will happen in March 2020!

Also, I've updated the banner to reflect the new color:

Code: [Select]

[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103307.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/Ar665CJ.jpg[/img][/url]

[firetruckboy]

I for one am ready.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[FRANCO]

March 2020! Heck yes...I can't wait!

[fatboycarney]

Such a great job on this set, been following along since OP,  if funds allow I am grabbing this. GLWGB in March!!

[Fredington]

I've designed a simple, PCB-inspired deskpad to go along with the set. Please fill out the poll as to your preference! Renders will be added soon!

Black




Green

[hottrout]

Love the mats.  Really simple and clean.

[catbus]

I'd love to see a green mat with the traces the same colour as the legends

[Shurakai]

I had to stop lurking and create an account to say that I can't wait for the group buy to drop.

Also, I second the idea of the green deskmat with the traces in the legend color.  GLWGB!  Come on March!

[Fredington]

I had to stop lurking and create an account to say that I can't wait for the group buy to drop.

Also, I second the idea of the green deskmat with the traces in the legend color.  GLWGB!  Come on March!

Thanks for the support. I mocked up a version like you described but I feel like it's too high contrast. What do you guys think?

[Shurakai]

I had to stop lurking and create an account to say that I can't wait for the group buy to drop.

Also, I second the idea of the green deskmat with the traces in the legend color.  GLWGB!  Come on March!

Thanks for the support. I mocked up a version like you described but I feel like it's too high contrast. What do you guys think?

Show Image

I think I like it. I see what you mean about the contrast, but I like the callback to the colors. Would it be possible to mock up a render with one of the keyboards?

Thanks for the mockup!

[Version467]

Loving the keyset, can't wait for the gb, not sure about the deskmat though.
I quite like the design, but it feels too... noisy? I don't know, I think it's a bit cluttered.

[equalunique]

Been dreaming about SP stocking WCK homing keys so I can make a keeb using almost only the Maths kit as pseudo-blanks.

Sent from my Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 using Tapatalk

[catbus]

I had to stop lurking and create an account to say that I can't wait for the group buy to drop.

Also, I second the idea of the green deskmat with the traces in the legend color.  GLWGB!  Come on March!

Thanks for the support. I mocked up a version like you described but I feel like it's too high contrast. What do you guys think?

Show Image

I think I like it. I see what you mean about the contrast, but I like the callback to the colors. Would it be possible to mock up a render with one of the keyboards?

Thanks for the mockup!

Seconded for seeing it with a render. I personally really like the color matching version; but would like to see it in a render with the key caps to see how well it blends :)

[SteeleDynamics]

Got MX sliders for my HHKB.

The suspense is killing me!!!

[bliss]

The suspense is killing me!!!

We all know the feeling, but I found your comment hilarious

After placing a preorder, it might be best for one's sanity to entirely forget about it for a while - I tend to check the GB pages often, too
 

[Fredington]

Big update today so let's jump right into it...

First, I did end up requesting a couple of samples. As a reminder, these are not correct for color. See below:



A couple things:

1. E@ represents the maximum vertical dimension that SP is able to doubleshot on SA profile, which works out to about a 10% vertical reduction from their current size
2. Legends are too thin, especially compared to the inspiration and especially with the size reduction

As a result, all legends have been completely reworked to be significantly bolder. Please see some comparisons below:





You might have also noticed the color change in the above comparisons. The previous color, 7716 C, is no longer showing up on Pantone's website when I search for it. So rather than risk any potential supply issues due to the color being possibly discontinued, I've gone ahead and selected a new standard, 7717 C. Comparison below:



As you can see, this new color is even deeper and more saturated, which I think will look fantastic in ABS.

Now onto some kit adjustments...

I know I said previously that the kits were locked, but after adding the novelty kit, I realized that ISO users could easily run into a situation where they would either 1) be missing a key, 2) have to use a duplicate key, or 3) be forced into buying the novelty kit! To fix this, I've moved the Σ keys back into the Alphas where they originally were. I've also took the opportunity make a couple other adjustments in order to get you guys better end pricing:

1. Following recent trends in numpad kit design, R1 keys for standalone numpads have been removed from the Numpad kit.
2. 1800 layout support has been moved from the Modifiers into the Numpad kit.

This should result in better pricing on the Modifiers, Numpad, and Maths kits, as well as providing complete (physical) ISO coverage and some novelties for everyone who buys the Alphas.

Finally, I've decided to offer two deskpad options, a high contrast green one and a monochrome black one:





All updates have been posted in the OP. I also incorporated the new novelties into the updated renders. Deskpad renders and kit pricing should be up in the next couple weeks. We're getting close!

Massive thanks and shoutout to Abec13 for redoing all the renders!

[Shurakai]

I love the deskpad decisions. I can't wait for this to drop. This will be my first Day 1 buy.

Edit to say that I was concerned about the alpha legends update, but the renders look great.

The samples are not an attempt at the SAIL color, are they? They look to be a pretty good match to 1976 to me, but way off for SAIL

[Fredington]

The samples are not an attempt at the SAIL color, are they? They look to be a pretty good match to 1976 to me, but way off for SAIL

I did end up requesting a couple of samples. As a reminder, these are not correct for color.

[Shurakai]

The samples are not an attempt at the SAIL color, are they? They look to be a pretty good match to 1976 to me, but way off for SAIL

I did end up requesting a couple of samples. As a reminder, these are not correct for color.

I somehow misread that the first time. Thanks for the gentle hand.

[bliss]

Great update! - You would not miss anything until you see the upgraded version: The contrast is improved markedly, and the design is indeed closer to the inspiration now.

[ZoomBoy]

I'm in! Very nice looking set!

[Cat Tails]

Wonderful! Your renders seem spot on. I'd buy on the first day.

Just curious: the alphas kit image suggests FJ homing keys. What are they like?

[Fredington]

Wonderful! Your renders seem spot on. I'd buy on the first day.

Just curious: the alphas kit image suggests FJ homing keys. What are they like?

Deep dish.

[gminso]

wish it had one color inversion like for enter key or escape, but I am in for a set anyways

[nasp]

I'd love to see a render of a board with a numpad since you have some different legends then what is there usually.

[Fredington]

Deskpad renders have been posted below and in the OP.

Green Hi-Contrast







Black Monochrome

[horchata771]

Deskpad renders have been posted below and in the OP.

Hubba hubba! Those new bold legends are looking great!