MX Black, 65g, 62g Spring Swap Review

[CPTBadAss]

I didn't even bother....Red switches are horrible for me.

[Photoelectric]

I have a 55g spring, and I did not like it in Ergo Clear.  It was too sticky and the bump was rather long, but I did not lubricate.

[kenmai9]

I am very interested in making some ghetto greens! You should take your review to the next level.. with video comparison between all of yours! I know its a lot of effort, but that will makes this review legen--
wait for it
---
DARY!
Legendary.

[Kayliss]

Nice job CPTBadAss, thanks for the write up, found it very helpful. I read this and ordered some 65g springs from Sherry to compare to the 62g blacks I already have.

[CPTBadAss]

I am very interested in making some ghetto greens! You should take your review to the next level.. with video comparison between all of yours!

I don't have any way to make a video happen. I only have a phone for video and the microphone is horrible. Sorry man.

And thanks to everyone else who has read this and commented.

[daerid]

I'm rocking 65g Clears on my ErgoDox, and I must disagree!! I love the bottom out feeling (although I rarely bottom out on this thing), and the keys aren't sticky at all. But great review!

[CPTBadAss]

Daerid did you lube your switches?

[daerid]

No, not yet. Don't have any lube at the moment. I might spend the time to lube this thing in a little while, but I'm not unhappy with how they feel right now.

[Photoelectric]

I can test 55g, 62g, and 65g when my new springs arrive. I have all the lubing stuff necessary now as well.  I can even try 45g springs.

[CPTBadAss]

No, not yet. Don't have any lube at the moment. I might spend the time to lube this thing in a little while, but I'm not unhappy with how they feel right now.

Ah ok. Well that's good to know ^__^

I can test 55g, 62g, and 65g when my new springs arrive. I have all the lubing stuff necessary now as well.  I can even try 45g springs.

You should write your own review similar to this one so we can compare notes

[Photoelectric]

Ok, tried lubing (Krytox 103) and oiling (Victorinox multi-tool) with 65g (Originative), 62g (Originative, I believe), 55g (not sure, I think Originative), and 45g (Originative) springs.  My subjective opinion is that there's a definite difference between the 65g and 62g springs.  62g springs feel softer.  65g springs are definitely "springier" and tougher, and the switch pops back up noticeably faster.  55g is kind of meh, a bit mushy.  45g is surprisingly okay, not very sticky.  I was surprised so I tried them on 2 different switches.  The result was kind of like Browns, slightly softer but with a more noticeable bump.  I think I like 62g springs the best so far, but I'll have to defer to my OH who'll possibly be using the board once I'm done modding it with ergo Clears.  62g retains the softness of the lighter springs without being too light.  But I can see how someone who likes tougher springs would prefer 65g ones.  I was going back and forth between a vintage MX Black and a 65g Ergo Clear, and I couldn't quite imagine which would feel tougher overall for prolonged use, because of the bump in the Clear.

Also, I must say, keycaps make a HUGE difference--even more so with tactile switches.  I was going back and forth between an old WYSE doubleshot keycap and a Ducky Shine keycap, and wow.  I'm serious, the Shine keycaps make the switches feel much softer and easier to press.  The WYSE doubleshot is harder and actually feels tougher to press a switch.  I can't figure out why there'd be such a difference, but I've noticed it with a lot of switches I've tried so far.  It's a major reason why I love the Shine caps so much.  They feel like I'm getting a hand massage while typing.

[SpAmRaY]

Ok, tried lubing (Krytox 103) and oiling (Victorinox multi-tool) with 65g (Originative), 62g (Originative, I believe), 55g (not sure, I think Originative), and 45g (Originative) springs.  My subjective opinion is that there's a definite difference between the 65g and 62g springs.  62g springs feel softer.  65g springs are definitely "springier" and tougher, and the switch pops back up noticeably faster.  55g is kind of meh, a bit mushy.  45g is surprisingly okay, not very sticky.  I was surprised so I tried them on 2 different switches.  The result was kind of like Browns, slightly softer but with a more noticeable bump.  I think I like 62g springs the best so far, but I'll have to defer to my OH who'll possibly be using the board once I'm done modding it with ergo Clears.  62g retains the softness of the lighter springs without being too light.  But I can see how someone who likes tougher springs would prefer 65g ones.  I was going back and forth between a vintage MX Black and a 65g Ergo Clear, and I couldn't quite imagine which would feel tougher overall for prolonged use, because of the bump in the Clear.

Also, I must say, keycaps make a HUGE difference--even more so with tactile switches.  I was going back and forth between an old WYSE doubleshot keycap and a Ducky Shine keycap, and wow.  I'm serious, the Shine keycaps make the switches feel much softer and easier to press.  The WYSE doubleshot is harder and actually feels tougher to press a switch.  I can't figure out why there'd be such a difference, but I've noticed it with a lot of switches I've tried so far.  It's a major reason why I love the Shine caps so much.  They feel like I'm getting a hand massage while typing.

Ducky needs to use that in their marketing 

I just received some springs the other day and if I can find any time 'soon' I'll try to put some thoughts up as well. I'd like to find some ridiculously heavy springs!

[CPTBadAss]

Haha, that's so weird that you like 45g but not 55g. I had the same thing happen to me with the ergo-clears. Some springs just feel right and others don't. I wish I had bought some lube so I could do my own experimentation but that can be a future project.

I tend to like medium to heavier springs so I would never ever get 55g or 45g springs. So it's cool to see someone's thoughts on them. Thanks!

[Photoelectric]

I said 45g were not very sticky somehow, but did not mean to imply that I liked them.  Should have worded it better.  I did not like 45g Clears or 55g Clears.  I did like 62g Clears.  And my 45g spring stack is for Jailhouse Blues

[SeriouSSpotS]

Very nice review, I really want to try ghetto greens now

[CPTBadAss]

Your signature says you have both Blue and Black boards. You could take both boards apart and try it for yourself. Or just get a hold of Black springs and mod your Blue board.

[kenmai9]

Your signature says you have both Blue and Black boards. You could take both boards apart and try it for yourself. Or just get a hold of Black springs and mod your Blue board.

[SpAmRaY]

I wish I had bought some lube so I could do my own experimentation but that can be a future project.

limmy still has some for sale!

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44373.msg939313.msg#939313

[ksm123]

I've modded my Clears, I've greased stems (with Finish-Line Extreme Fluoro grease), and installed 55g springs (from calavera's GB). In my opinion it was wrong move, grease is OK, but springs are way too light for me. I bottom out them quite often, and there are many accidental keypresses. Overall my typing speed dropped dramatically.

Next evening I swapped 55g to 62g springs, and installed original Clear springs on large keys in thumb cluster. This setup feels much better, there were no accidental keypresses in quick typing test I did this morning, there was no drop in typing speed as compared to typing on unmodded Clears.

Lubing makes BIG difference with Clears and ErgoClears especially. 62g springs are just stiff enough for, I feel that there is a spring beneath my fingers, but it is much lighter than original Clears. This feeling of "springiness" was absent in 55g mod.

This closes my modding experiments for foreseeable future, I can't put my hands on a set of black or 67g springs, and with my wedding coming in August, I can't invest any more into this hobby.

[CPTBadAss]

ksm123, as soon as I tried 62g springs, I knew that was the lightest I'd ever go. I can't even imagine using 55g. Let us know what you think about the 62g springs.

[TheSoulhunter]

Nice writeup...
Using Panda/Ergo Clears for typing and Reds with clear spring for gaming atm

[SpAmRaY]

I read the spring swap thoughts and if I missed it, my apologies but did you try the clear spring with a white stem? Or is the clear spring basically the same as the 65g that you didn't like?

[Photoelectric]

Clear spring is heavier than 65g.  Black springs are like 67-68g or so, and Clear spring is heaver than that.

[CPTBadAss]

I read the spring swap thoughts and if I missed it, my apologies but did you try the clear spring with a white stem? Or is the clear spring basically the same as the 65g that you didn't like?

I did not. When the tour comes back to me, I'll do another round of testing.

[jspark]

Very nice review. Nice work, CPT!
One question is that blue and green switches have same structure? So, if I replace blues' springs with greens, then it would be exactly equal to green switches?

I'm wondering whether every switch has slightly different structure regardless its spring forces.

[CPTBadAss]

One question is that blue and green switches have same structure? So, if I replace blues' springs with greens, then it would be exactly equal to green switches?

I'm wondering whether every switch has slightly different structure regardless its spring forces.

I think that they have the same stem structure/mechanism but the spring and stem color is different. I'm not 100% positive though. I know the Black and Red stems are the same with different springs so I don't see why Blue and Green would differ.

[Sifo]

Green and blue are the same they use the same clear clicker.

[jspark]

I

One question is that blue and green switches have same structure? So, if I replace blues' springs with greens, then it would be exactly equal to green switches?

I'm wondering whether every switch has slightly different structure regardless its spring forces.

I think that they have the same stem structure/mechanism but the spring and stem color is different. I'm not 100% positive though. I know the Black and Red stems are the same with different springs so I don't see why Blue and Green would differ.

I see, then changing springs back and forth can let me type on both switches.
Thanks.

[CPTBadAss]

I state in the OP how to make a Ghetto Green with a Blue Switch.

[daerid]

65g Clears = Goldilocks

[TheSoulhunter]

Random idea: Let's name spring mods after elements with corresponding number...
But then again "Terbium Blacks" or "Samarium Clears" doesn't sound that cool, does it?

[Sifo]

Well, there already is a secret unofficial term that some of us use for certain weight springs. Huehuehue

[CPTBadAss]

I don't really care for modded Clears in general so I don't really care about the terms for them. I tend to lump them all into "Panda Clear" or "Ergo-Clears" which isn't too accurate. Numbers are far easier to remember than actual names though Soulhunter.

I heard Kirkle Clears are pretty swag though huehuehue.

[mashby]

I've scanned through the thread, and I see where it was discussed, but I didn't see what the conclusion is. What weight is a stock MX-Black spring? 65g, 80g?

[Photoelectric]

Close 70g, just a bit under.  Perhaps something like 68g.

[CPTBadAss]

I've scanned through the thread, and I see where it was discussed, but I didn't see what the conclusion is. What weight is a stock MX-Black spring? 65g, 80g?

Show Image

Still unsure of the bottom out force. Acuation force is 60 cN according to the DT wiki. Bottom out seems be be around 70g like Photoelectric said since 65g was lighter than the MX Black spring.

[mashby]

Thanks guys! Since I bottom out on every keystroke the grams is most relevant to me, so this helps a lot.

Anyone have any knowledge of what a stock MX-Grey spring is? 

[CPTBadAss]

Anyone have any knowledge of what a stock MX-Grey spring is? 

Bottom out? I have no idea. I've kind of ignored Greys since we went to MK.com and they were laughably heavy to me.

[Sifo]

Sifo Clears = 62g GOLD

Kirkle clears are far better though

[mashby]

Anyone have any knowledge of what a stock MX-Grey spring is? 

Bottom out? I have no idea. I've kind of ignored Greys since we went to MK.com and they were laughably heavy to me.

I know you like a balanced board, but I have MX-Greys on my Spacebar, Backspace and Esc keys and love the feel of them with the MX-Blacks. I'm building up a board with MX-Whites and I think I'm going to make 3 Panda Whites (~80g) with the springs from the MX-Greys.

Does that make me bizarro cptbadass? 

[CPTBadAss]

Non-uniform boards turns me into CPTSadMass.

[SpAmRaY]

Non-uniform boards turns me into CPTSadMass.

^^ is a sig worthy quote!

[oTurtlez]

So My 55g white board came in and all I can say is holy-light switch batman! I feel sound wise it's the same as blues, maybe a tab bit quieter, but not too sure. I'm about to order some springs from Originative and I'm torn between 62 and 65g. From what you said, 62g felt better, but 65g sounded better. I want that quieter click, but I also want a nice light switch with SOME resistance. Should I just go 65g and see how they play out?

[CPTBadAss]

I would say 65g is nice.

[oTurtlez]

I would say 65g is nice.

I think for an extra $8 I might as well just get a set of both to try out what I like best. Thanks though, I'll post here with results! Now I just need a switch tool to make things easier

[Photoelectric]

I don't know about Whites, but for Clears, 62g springs offer a noticeable amount of resistance.  The bump in Whites is not as significant, so 65g is probably still not that heavy.  65g springs are noticeably tougher than 62g springs, so it's likely that their specs are not entirely accurate (perhaps 65g springs are a tad heavier in reality).

[CPTBadAss]

65g and 62g springs in Whites definitely felt different to me. Hence the review notes.

[oTurtlez]

The board came with 55g whites and a stock green spacebar and I HATED that heavy switch on the bar haha. I swapped in a vintage black spring into the spacebar, and even that was a little tough, so I threw that spring into Esc and the 55g from escape into my spacebar. A little lighter than I'd like but it's better than the black spring. I tried the black spring sin a couple of whites as well and they weren't bad but I couldn't find myself using a full board of them, just a tad too heavy. Hopefully I'll like either 62g or 65g

[turtle]

I also have 55g springs.. What switch do people typically use it for?

[oTurtlez]

I also have 55g springs.. What switch do people typically use it for?

Not sure, this is my first MX board in over a year Not to mention the first one that I've modded / used that is modded. I'd say they're common in linear switches though.