[IC] Voyager60-Alps PCB and AEK Plates

[tdubya]

Hi everyone, I previously posted an IC to reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/iliy27/ic_voyager60alps_pcb_plates/) and got about 30 responses which helped me narrow down PCB color and plate materials. I'd like to use this second IC to narrow down layouts and get feedback from anyone who didn't catch the IC on reddit.

Google Form: https://forms.gle/6tLgu4877iqqeYXV6

Target Date
I'm currently targeting a GB from October 1st to October 15th   October 5th - 30th I have no idea currently, I'm unable to post in the group buy subforum due to account age restrictions.

PCB
The PCB will be a run of ai03's Voyager60-Alps PCB https://github.com/ai03-2725/Voyager60/tree/alps
Connector: USB-C
Supported Layouts: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/c867bdba7e5ae8be282f77a242bacf66
Solder Mask: Matte Black
Additional Features: RGB Underglow, Flex Cutout
Price estimate: 40 USD

Plates
Materials: laser cut unfinished brass, CNC'd media blasted polycarbonate
Supported Layouts: AEK ANSI (Standard), Split Backspace, Split Right Shift, Infinity (Split BS and RShift w/ AEK Bottom Row)
Price estimates: 40-ish for brass, 50+ for polycarbonate unless it's somehow more popular than brass

A note about plate prices: These are currently maximum price estimates averaged out among all 4 layouts, it's possible you could end up paying less for your plate. If certain layouts layouts don't meet an MOQ of 5 or more I probably won't go forward with getting them made (at least in PC) as the cost ends up being quite prohibitive. Currently I'm leaving the brass plates unfinished but could look into adding surface treatments (sandblasting/polishing) to some orders at an additional cost.

Current Status:
[DONE] Create BOM/Centroid files for Voyager60
[DONE] Validate production files by ordering a prototype run
[DONE] Create plate layouts
[DONE] Order lasered prototype plates in brass
[IN PROGRESS] Order CNC prototype plates in PC
[IN PROGRESS] Finalize pricing and vendors for plates
[DONE] Create pull requests for QMK and VIA
[TO DO] Launch group buy
[TO DO] Validate Orders
[TO DO] Send Invoices
[TO DO] Order PCBs
[TO DO] Order brass plates
[TO DO] Order PC plates
[TO DO] Final QC
[TO DO] Ship Orders

[Blastoise]

Looking good. Excited to see pcbs hitting gb soon!

[Rob27shred]

IC form filled out, really interested in the polycarb plates!

[LightningXI]

I may be interested.

[tdubya]

I updated the form with an additional 2 questions about surface treatment on the brass plates and if people would be interested in a thicc PC plate with special cutouts.

[remdell]

Filled with suggestion for HHKB and WKL plate layouts.

[ilikerustoo]

Interested

[DasGnome]

Yes please. Credit where credit is due for Hasu's alps pcb, but we are in dire need of modern alps PCBs.

[gnhuy91]

Definitely in, I hope someone would do a run for Applet's Steezy60 too

[toniwonkanobi]

ai03 kills it with his designs. Didn't even know he had an open-source Alps-specific 60% PCB *with flex relief cut.* So great. I'm in for two!

[tdubya]

ai03 kills it with his designs. Didn't even know he had an open-source Alps-specific 60% PCB *with flex relief cut.* So great. I'm in for two!

Yes please. Credit where credit is due for Hasu's alps pcb, but we are in dire need of modern alps PCBs.

I really can't understate how much useful stuff both of these guys have put out for free. Both have been a tremendous resource in increasing my understanding of how all this stuff works.

[sendpie]

orange alps has been sitting for over a year without a build to go on, thank you for this

[Little4Real]

Any way you could make a few of these 1.2mm for Polaris support?

[toniwonkanobi]

Any way you could make a few of these 1.2mm for Polaris support?

1.2mm is the required thickness for any Alps plate

[Little4Real]

Any way you could make a few of these 1.2mm for Polaris support?

1.2mm is the required thickness for any Alps plate

I know that. Every custom I own except one is an Alps build.

The Polaris PCB is 1.2mm thick, so a standard PCB (1.6mm) would have fitment issues in it. Plate files are available and I can easily modify one for Alps and have a 1.2mm plate cut.

[toniwonkanobi]

Any way you could make a few of these 1.2mm for Polaris support?

1.2mm is the required thickness for any Alps plate

I know that. Every custom I own except one is an Alps build.

The Polaris PCB is 1.2mm thick, so a standard PCB (1.6mm) would have fitment issues in it. Plate files are available and I can easily modify one for Alps and have a 1.2mm plate cut.

I guess I’m confused. Why are you asking for a 1.2mm thick PCB if that’s what is already coming with this kit?

[tdubya]

Any way you could make a few of these 1.2mm for Polaris support?

1.2mm is the required thickness for any Alps plate

I know that. Every custom I own except one is an Alps build.

The Polaris PCB is 1.2mm thick, so a standard PCB (1.6mm) would have fitment issues in it. Plate files are available and I can easily modify one for Alps and have a 1.2mm plate cut.

I guess I’m confused. Why are you asking for a 1.2mm thick PCB if that’s what is already coming with this kit?

I'm most likely going to run them as 1.6mm since that's sort of that standard and I'm hoping to keep compatibility for existing tray mount cases.

Some additonal updates:

- Nobody wants a split rshift with 2u backspace layout so I'll probably drop it in favor of HHKB or WKL
- Modeled the switch and stab cutouts for the proposed thicc plate
- Split rshift needs overhead stabilizer mounts added to the design... of course this is after I ordered a proto with the missing overhead mounts.

[toniwonkanobi]

Any way you could make a few of these 1.2mm for Polaris support?

1.2mm is the required thickness for any Alps plate

I know that. Every custom I own except one is an Alps build.

The Polaris PCB is 1.2mm thick, so a standard PCB (1.6mm) would have fitment issues in it. Plate files are available and I can easily modify one for Alps and have a 1.2mm plate cut.

I guess I’m confused. Why are you asking for a 1.2mm thick PCB if that’s what is already coming with this kit?

I'm most likely going to run them as 1.6mm since that's sort of that standard and I'm hoping to keep compatibility for existing tray mount cases good.

Okay. Now I'm really confused. So, you're making 1.2mm plates (standard Alps faire), but you're making the PCB's 1.6mm, which isn't standard Alps faire?

[tdubya]

Oh man - you're absolutely correct. Since the USB port is on the bottom and the intent is for the board to be used with tray mount cases then I don't see an issue with doing 1.2mm PCBs from a USB cutout perspective, though anyone trying to use the PCB for plate mount purposes might need to check clearances.

[toniwonkanobi]

Oh man - you're absolutely correct. Since the USB port is on the bottom and the intent is for the board to be used with tray mount cases then I don't see an issue with doing 1.2mm PCBs from a USB cutout perspective, though anyone trying to use the PCB for plate mount purposes might need to check clearances.

(Is there a standard size for Alps 60% PCB's? ai03's spec doesn't mention a thickness?)

[tdubya]

The Alps64 and my AEK PCB both appear to be 1.6mm thick. Google gave me 1.2 but I'm now realizing it was doing that fun thing where it tries to guess what part of the page has the information it thinks you're looking for but in this instance it took the wrong part and gave me plate thickness. Now I'm thinking Alps PCBs, like other PCBs, are mostly 1.6mm.

[toniwonkanobi]

The Alps64 and my AEK PCB both appear to be 1.6mm thick. Google gave me 1.2 but I'm now realizing it was doing that fun thing where it tries to guess what part of the page has the information it thinks you're looking for but in this instance it took the wrong part and gave me plate thickness. Now I'm thinking Alps PCBs, like other PCBs, are mostly 1.6mm.

I see. Good to know. So if GB happens as you'd like, in October 2020, when would products ship?

[pixelpusher]

Just looking at the renders in the github repository, so are there no MX stabilizer holes on the PCB?  Seems like an easy thing to add and I would prefer it, since I have 4 SP Alps sets (which have mx stabilizers).  Also, there are other SP Alps sets in the pipeline.

Thought it was funny you said no one uses split right shift with 2u backspace.  It's my favorite layout for 60%.  I own 12 boards with that layout

[tdubya]

Just looking at the renders in the github repository, so are there no MX stabilizer holes on the PCB?  Seems like an easy thing to add and I would prefer it, since I have 4 SP Alps sets (which have mx stabilizers).  Also, there are other SP Alps sets in the pipeline.

Thought it was funny you said no one uses split right shift with 2u backspace.  It's my favorite layout for 60%.  I own 12 boards with that layout

Correct, there aren't any MX stabilizer cutouts on the PCB. I chose the Voyager60 because of the feature set and permissive MIT license. I see the Steezy60 is also a thing and has feature parity plus more supported layouts and the cutouts you're looking for but there's also no license associated with it. I could reach out to 4pplet and seek their blessing to do a run or I could fork the Voyager60 and add the features myself. Since this is my first attempt at running a group buy I'm trying to have as few moving parts as possible, mostly to limit any self inflicted damage and also just to get stuff in peoples hands quickly.

The Alps64 and my AEK PCB both appear to be 1.6mm thick. Google gave me 1.2 but I'm now realizing it was doing that fun thing where it tries to guess what part of the page has the information it thinks you're looking for but in this instance it took the wrong part and gave me plate thickness. Now I'm thinking Alps PCBs, like other PCBs, are mostly 1.6mm.

I see. Good to know. So if GB happens as you'd like, in October 2020, when would products ship?

If I run the GB for 2 weeks starting Oct 1 I'd like to send off payment sometime during the third week of October and then hopefully start giving out tracking numbers during the second or third week of November provided 2020 doesn't ...uh... you know...

[Little4Real]

Okay. Now I'm really confused. So, you're making 1.2mm plates (standard Alps faire), but you're making the PCB's 1.6mm, which isn't standard Alps faire?

Is there a standard size for Alps 60% PCB's? ai03's spec doesn't mention a thickness?

There's no standard thickness for Alps PCBs, only for Alps plates (1.1mm +-0.1mm). I only asked for a 1.2mm thickness since the Polaris has a 1.2mm PCB and wanted an Alps-compatible Polaris PCB. Thickness doesn't matter regarding Alps or MX switches, they'll still work regardless.

[toniwonkanobi]

Okay. Now I'm really confused. So, you're making 1.2mm plates (standard Alps faire), but you're making the PCB's 1.6mm, which isn't standard Alps faire?

Is there a standard size for Alps 60% PCB's? ai03's spec doesn't mention a thickness?

There's no standard thickness for Alps PCBs, only for Alps plates (1.1mm +-0.1mm). I only asked for a 1.2mm thickness since the Polaris has a 1.2mm PCB and wanted an Alps-compatible Polaris PCB. Thickness doesn't matter regarding Alps or MX switches, they'll still work regardless.

Ahh. Got it.

[tdubya]

Small update:

• The PCB prototypes work, so that's reassuring.
• QMK firmware 90 percent done, VIA is yet to be started. Default QMK keymap will be the ANSI AEK layout. The plan is to preflash all the boards with VIA.
• Laser cut plate prototype should be here on the 5th
• I need to refine dimensions on the CNC cut plate, which I won't be able to order until the end of the Mid-Autumn Festival
• I'm confident enough in the PCBs and lasered plates to run the GB for all of October instead of just 2 weeks and use that time to iron out the CNC'd PC plates.

[tdubya]

More updates:

Due to account age/post restrictions I'm going to have to wait to actually post this in the group buy section - I've messaged a moderator to see if an exception is possible but I'm not counting on anything. Since I think a GB post on geekhack is kind of the canonical source of truth for group buys and I don't have the cycles right now to set up and moderate a Discord server for a single GB I'm going to have to wait until late November or December to run this, which is kind of a bummer.

In other news:

• Pull requests are up for both QMK and VIA
• I've assembled one of the prototype boards with test plate I ordered. Everything works exactly as expected - I'll attach a pic below.

[toniwonkanobi]

I'm going to have to wait until late November or December to run this, which is kind of a bummer.

December. Man. That sucks. I feel like when Uncle Owen told Luke he had to wait to go to the academy for another season.

[tdubya]

QMK and VIA PRs have been merged - I'm considering giving bigbluesaw a shot with waterjetting some PC plates instead of getting them CNC'd - I've heard horror stories about waterjetted PC but it could be worth a shot if it reduces price and lead time. I reached out about an account age exception for posting a GB and never heard anything back so it looks like we're still in a holding pattern on this.

[Little4Real]

QMK and VIA PRs have been merged - I'm considering giving bigbluesaw a shot with waterjetting some PC plates instead of getting them CNC'd - I've heard horror stories about waterjetted PC but it could be worth a shot if it reduces price and lead time. I reached out about an account age exception for posting a GB and never heard anything back so it looks like we're still in a holding pattern on this.

I heard horror stories about waterjetted polycarbonate being terrible too, but I had faith in BigBlueSaw, so I ordered a couple PC plates anyways. Worst PC plates I've ever used.

On the other hand, their CF plates are great 

[DasGnome]

Any updates on progress?