Author Topic: Relearning how to type  (Read 7994 times)

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Offline eternalmetal

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Relearning how to type
« on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 08:47:03 »
My current style of typing involves using only the index and middle finders (and the occasional ring finger with certain patterns).  While I can type somewhat fast (70-80 wpm), I tend to make mistakes since I move my wrists all over the place like im some sort of sorcerer.  At faster speeds, im sure that a proper typing technique would result in making less mistakes, but my typing habits have been ingrained in me since ive been a kid (im 27 now), and am wondering whether it would be possible to correct the old muscle memory techniques.  I have become skilled enough to type without looking at the keys, so it isnt like I am using some amateur hunt and peck technique either.

Theoretically it should be possible, as typing is a muscle memory exercise like any other, and those can be developed with practice.  My main concern is that once I learn how to type the "proper" way, I might just start reverting back to my old techniques given time.  Has anybody else had experience with making the switch to traditional typing techniques after using an unorthodox one for many years?

Also, does anyone know any good online tutorials for learning how to type? 

Suggestions, opinions, anything is welcome.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 08:54:44 »
So any split keyboard will force you to type properly. Keyboardio, Microsoft Ergonomic 4000, Ergodox, Teck, etc. That's because you'll really feel the extra travel if you move your hands a lot.

Programs or games like Typing of the Dead are good for practicing. I learned with Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing as a kid.

I know people have had a lot of success forcing themselves to simply do it in QWERTY or even changing to DVORAK or COLEMAK in order to learn all over.

If I were you I'd just focus practicing proper typing technique an hour a day. Put on typeracer or another WPM tracking program as practice. Or a game like Typing of the Dead. And look up proper typing technique videos on youtube. I've never looked any up since like I said, as a child, I was forced to learn how to type in elementary school.

Offline Usarise

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 09:32:24 »
CPTBadAss is totes right about the split board.  Once I got my ergodox I had some trouble using it at first cause I typed like you say you do. >~>
After using it and working on regular layouts again I definitely see the difference. ^~^


Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 10:17:05 »
I realized flaws in my touch typing after I was playing with the keyboardio board at Keycon. For example I reach for y with my middle finger instead of using my index finger. Saw it when I used the Ergo4k as well.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 11:05:49 »
I realized flaws in my touch typing after I was playing with the keyboardio board at Keycon. For example I reach for y with my middle finger instead of using my index finger. Saw it when I used the Ergo4k as well.

LOLOL...

The only time I see people using Middle-finger for Y or T is if they can't comfortably reach them without a wrist lift,  so the middle finger is quicker,   just as ring finger is quicker for q and p vs using the pinky.

So if your index finger IS indeed too short to reach Y and T without a wrist lift,

THEN

Assuming your middle finger is long enough,  If you can reach Y or T without -lifting- your wrist .. Technically that is the correct thing to do.


On my custom layout, my Y is below K.. so I don't have to reach for it at all.

I was also going to move T at some point,  but it doesn't really matter on the ergodox because the keys are easier to reach vs standard qwerty

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 14:04:56 »

I know people have had a lot of success forcing themselves to simply do it in QWERTY or even changing to DVORAK or COLEMAK in order to learn all over.

Ive always wondered what the other key configurations felt like, but I really dont see why it would be practical to use one when almost any device out there is in QWERTY.  I imagine that you can get proficient in more than one, but in the end it just seems more like a novelty than a fruitful endeavor.  Forcing myself to use proper technique on the setup I already know would probably work best for me.

If I were you I'd just focus practicing proper typing technique an hour a day. Put on typeracer or another WPM tracking program as practice. Or a game like Typing of the Dead. And look up proper typing technique videos on youtube. I've never looked any up since like I said, as a child, I was forced to learn how to type in elementary school.

I remember back in middle school using a program called Type to Learn on DOS and I never took it seriously.  I would only use proper technique to pass the tests, and would always resort back to my ways out of class.  I guess at this point I just need to fully commit.  Currently, there is no way im breaking the 80+ wpm barrier without better technique, but it could take months until im back up to par.

I guess ill find a typing tutorial online and do some practice exercises.  Anybody know of any good ones?

Hmm, maybe this site was made for people like me? (http://www.typing-lessons.org/ )

CPTBadAss is totes right about the split board.  Once I got my ergodox I had some trouble using it at first cause I typed like you say you do. >~>
After using it and working on regular layouts again I definitely see the difference. ^~^

Do you revert back to old habits when on a regular keyboard, or have you completely changed your ways?  What actually made me interested in typing more efficiently is the purchasing of a new keyboard (CM Storm with blues), which is my first mechanical keyboard since I made the switch to silent rubber domes back when they first got popular.  I have thrown away boards in the past that you guys are probably actively seeking today.  If only I realized I was settling for mediocrity then, I probably wouldnt have thrown away all my old IBM boards. 

So atm im really not in the market for a new keyboard, though down the road I might consider a more ergonomic design.  The Ergodox board looks interesting.  Would give me an excuse to break out the soldering iron and get my hands dirty, which I havent done since I wired some back/forward buttons for my CST trackball.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 14:08:35 »
Honestly? I'd rather type at 40 WPM and have proper typing technique than to have a ****ed up technique which will mess with my hands but be at 80 WPM. I don't care what my WPM is.

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 15:17:24 »
WPM is about efficiency, which should be important to any typist.  As far as wrist issues are concerned, I think the incidence of carpal tunnel as a result of poor keyboard ergonomics is a somewhat overhyped phenomena; it isnt really supported by statistical research evidence.  Plus I think most people would adjust their positioning if they start to cramp up, thus improving ergonomics due to the negative feedback.  Most of the time CTS arises due to injury or trauma, and also due to repetitive stress injuries, which often involve more physical exertion and stress than typing on a keyboard (ie factory workers, construction workers, etc).  Posture of the back while sitting is a far more important issue as far as im concerned (im a healthcare professional btw).  Tbh im more concerned about the limitations of my sloppy and childish technique than I am about the health aspects involved, which is why I am actively trying to change my habits.  My hands have never been sore after using a keyboard at length, so the posture of my hand position is acceptable.  Im at more like 25wpm with orthodox technique, so even 40wpm would feel satisfying. I dont care about what my wpm is either, but it is a direct relation to how comfortable you feel on a keyboard, so I am using it as a metric.  At 80+, the movements I make are too erratic and interfere with accuracy.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 17:42:52 »
WPM is about efficiency, which should be important to any typist.  As far as wrist issues are concerned, I think the incidence of carpal tunnel as a result of poor keyboard ergonomics is a somewhat overhyped phenomena; it isnt really supported by statistical research evidence.  Plus I think most people would adjust their positioning if they start to cramp up, thus improving ergonomics due to the negative feedback.  Most of the time CTS arises due to injury or trauma, and also due to repetitive stress injuries, which often involve more physical exertion and stress than typing on a keyboard (ie factory workers, construction workers, etc).  Posture of the back while sitting is a far more important issue as far as im concerned (im a healthcare professional btw).  Tbh im more concerned about the limitations of my sloppy and childish technique than I am about the health aspects involved, which is why I am actively trying to change my habits.  My hands have never been sore after using a keyboard at length, so the posture of my hand position is acceptable.  Im at more like 25wpm with orthodox technique, so even 40wpm would feel satisfying. I dont care about what my wpm is either, but it is a direct relation to how comfortable you feel on a keyboard, so I am using it as a metric.  At 80+, the movements I make are too erratic and interfere with accuracy.



Split keyboarding is NOT overhyped..

It's good that it hasn't happened to you.

But we here @ GH  know PRECISELY what causes RSI with respect to the keyboard.

2 things.. 

-Non 2mm actuation-
______ causes overexertion technique, known as Strike-n-Hold..  This is when the user tends to hit the key, and because the key is designed to actuate at the very bottom,  he tends to Press very hard on it to Make sure it happens.

---  the increase in applied force and duration multiplied across thousands of keys across many hours is what ultimately puts the strain on..

______ Also the precursor to carpel tunnel

-Wrist Rotation-

______ causes the tightness on the upper part of your forearm.

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 21:14:08 »

Split keyboarding is NOT overhyped..

I never said it was.  Im sure it is great to be able to spread your hands when you type.  Please dont assume that im mounting an attack on ergonomic keyboard enthusiasts, as this was not my intent.   

It's good that it hasn't happened to you.

But we here @ GH  know PRECISELY what causes RSI with respect to the keyboard.

2 things.. 

-Non 2mm actuation-
______ causes overexertion technique, known as Strike-n-Hold..  This is when the user tends to hit the key, and because the key is designed to actuate at the very bottom,  he tends to Press very hard on it to Make sure it happens.

---  the increase in applied force and duration multiplied across thousands of keys across many hours is what ultimately puts the strain on..
 

______ Also the precursor to carpel tunnel

-Wrist Rotation-

______ causes the tightness on the upper part of your forearm.

Actually I find this information rather interesting, but I dont think I straight up denied the possibility of RSI due to excessive keyboard use.  Maybe it is a slightly bigger issue in jobs with high computing hours, but I dont think your average hunt and peck user should be worried about any of this.  I am a bit dubious of the carpal tunnel claim, however.  Here is a study showing a negative correlation between carpal tunnel syndrome and keyboard use (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17968917)

Quote from: tl;dr
CONCLUSION: Intensive keyboard use appears to be associated with a lower risk of CTS.
_______________

My reply was mostly meant to emphasize that I would rather type two times as fast, even if the technique wasnt the most ergonomic (I dont use a keyboard for 15 hours a day).  Though I think I came here asking for advice on better technique, so I am obviously willing to put in a bit of effort to learn to type properly now.  In the past, ive always prioritized being able to type efficiently (time restraints with research papers and such) rather than properly, because like I said, I didnt pay attention in typing class.  Playing Doom with friends on the other hand...

Offline Oobly

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 08:20:15 »
Health-wise you're probably better off long term typing the way you already do than learning to type "properly" on a normal horizontally staggered QWERTY board.

There've been some studies, but mostly it's about common sense. It's better to type with your hands in natural positions and involve more muscle groups with smaller combined movements to prevent doing damage or becoming fatigued.

In terms of natural hand position: your wrists should remain straight (in all axes), hands not overly pronated or supinated, forearms low-ish. Most modern desk / keyboard setups force all kinds of weird positions / angles, with upwardly bent wrists being the most common bad position.

If you keep your fingers on the home row, that will tend to force your wrists to bend outwards, too, unless you have 10cm shoulder width.

Split keyboards can help with these (splay and tenting to improve wrist angles).

In terms of movements: if you try to type with only finger movement, you're going to get fatigued quicker than if you involve your whole arm in typing. Smaller movements are better, combining shoulder, arm, hand and finger movements to reach the further keys reduces the chance of fatigue and is healthier than using only finger movements. It helps if the keys are in easy-to-reach, natural positions.

Vertically staggered keys helps with this by positioning the keys in more natural positions, with less overall travel. However, if you're using a board which tends to "lock" your hands in one position for long periods when typing, it's advised to move the board around a little, so you're not keeping your arms and hands in a single position for extended periods. I found I have to do this with my custom ergo split board, since I don't have to move my hands much at all when typing on it.

Another factor in terms of finger joint pain and possibly other keyboard-related health issues is hard bottoming-out. If you're applying force when still when the keys hit bottom, your fingers experience a fair amount of shock, which can be reduced by learning not to keep pressing after the key actuates, as tp says. It doesn't mean not bottoming out, just that you're not adding force any more when the key strikes the bottom.

Then there are character layouts... QWERTY does force a bit more movement than DVORAK or COLEMAK, but it's not as significant in terms of speed, fatigue and hand/wrist health as a split, vertically staggered board would be. I do recommend learning a new character layout at the same time as a new physical layout, though, as you can then keep your old QWERTY muscle memory alive during the transition without affecting your typing speed or accuracy.
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Offline Heliobb

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 09:38:34 »
Thank eternalmetal to open this subject. I'm exactly in the same situation. I'm "lucky" because I prepare to "re-learning" to type on a new layout (ISO->ANSI). I've start learning on a classic ducky zero and http://www.keybr.com/#!game but for the moment it's not very efficient.

Build an ergodox can be a very good idea.
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Offline davkol

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 11:29:42 »
Actually I find this information rather interesting, but I dont think I straight up denied the possibility of RSI due to excessive keyboard use.  Maybe it is a slightly bigger issue in jobs with high computing hours, but I dont think your average hunt and peck user should be worried about any of this.  I am a bit dubious of the carpal tunnel claim, however.  Here is a study showing a negative correlation between carpal tunnel syndrome and keyboard use (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17968917)
And now for something a bit different… http://ergo.berkeley.edu/docs/2008%20Rempel%20JOR.pdf

…and regarding the previous comments, the Australian CTD epidemic (a random link).

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 12:12:34 »

Health-wise you're probably better off long term typing the way you already do than learning to type "properly" on a normal horizontally staggered QWERTY board.

There've been some studies, but mostly it's about common sense. It's better to type with your hands in natural positions and involve more muscle groups with smaller combined movements to prevent doing damage or becoming fatigued.

This describes my unorthodox method quite well.  It really isnt as atrocious as it sounds; my arm movements during typing allow me to decrease the articulation in my fingers.  Its just that sometimes im using the pointer finger 4-5+ consecutive times, which seems like a waste of efficiency.

In terms of natural hand position: your wrists should remain straight (in all axes), hands not overly pronated or supinated, forearms low-ish. Most modern desk / keyboard setups force all kinds of weird positions / angles, with upwardly bent wrists being the most common bad position.

If you keep your fingers on the home row, that will tend to force your wrists to bend outwards, too, unless you have 10cm shoulder width.

Split keyboards can help with these (splay and tenting to improve wrist angles).

Ive been complaining about my desk for years, but I cant justify the cost for a new one.  Moving the height of my chair helps, but then when I want to lean back and chill, the lip on the desk rams into my knees.  I have "football" shoulders, so my wrists do have a lateral bend when in typing position.  Maybe I should have invested in a split keyboard instead.


In terms of movements: if you try to type with only finger movement, you're going to get fatigued quicker than if you involve your whole arm in typing. Smaller movements are better, combining shoulder, arm, hand and finger movements to reach the further keys reduces the chance of fatigue and is healthier than using only finger movements. It helps if the keys are in easy-to-reach, natural positions.

Vertically staggered keys helps with this by positioning the keys in more natural positions, with less overall travel. However, if you're using a board which tends to "lock" your hands in one position for long periods when typing, it's advised to move the board around a little, so you're not keeping your arms and hands in a single position for extended periods. I found I have to do this with my custom ergo split board, since I don't have to move my hands much at all when typing on it.

Another factor in terms of finger joint pain and possibly other keyboard-related health issues is hard bottoming-out. If you're applying force when still when the keys hit bottom, your fingers experience a fair amount of shock, which can be reduced by learning not to keep pressing after the key actuates, as tp says. It doesn't mean not bottoming out, just that you're not adding force any more when the key strikes the bottom.

Then there are character layouts... QWERTY does force a bit more movement than DVORAK or COLEMAK, but it's not as significant in terms of speed, fatigue and hand/wrist health as a split, vertically staggered board would be. I do recommend learning a new character layout at the same time as a new physical layout, though, as you can then keep your old QWERTY muscle memory alive during the transition without affecting your typing speed or accuracy.

The more I read, the more support I see for dvorak.  Im guessing that it really is that well laid out for the English language?  The only holdup I have is that when I switch to workstations or public PCs, they are all QWERTY so I might get jammed up.  Most of my intensive tying is done at home, so I guess it really isnt a huge concern.  The muscle memory of typing on QWERTY for 20 years wont go away so easily, I would imagine.

Still, I would have to get new keycaps if I want to make the switch, since the keys on the CM Storm QFR are different depending on the row.  How much does a decent set of caps run you?

Thank eternalmetal to open this subject. I'm exactly in the same situation. I'm "lucky" because I prepare to "re-learning" to type on a new layout (ISO->ANSI). I've start learning on a classic ducky zero and http://www.keybr.com/#!game but for the moment it's not very efficient.

Actually ive been practicing the past few days, and im already starting to see results.  When I have to make the stretch to the 'p' or 'c' however, I struggle a little since it is a hand position im not used to.  I can see this transformation taking about a week or two, and ill probably be up to an acceptable typing speed.  It is already easier to touch type than with my old method, which I tended to glance down on now and then, like the speedometer and tach of my car.

I can see that the best way to do this is just to practice.  The muscle memory is already becoming a thing with certain keys, and it is almost starting to feel natural.  I think the main key to this exercise is to not revert back to old habits ever.  Good luck with your training!

Actually I find this information rather interesting, but I dont think I straight up denied the possibility of RSI due to excessive keyboard use.  Maybe it is a slightly bigger issue in jobs with high computing hours, but I dont think your average hunt and peck user should be worried about any of this.  I am a bit dubious of the carpal tunnel claim, however.  Here is a study showing a negative correlation between carpal tunnel syndrome and keyboard use (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17968917)
And now for something a bit different� http://ergo.berkeley.edu/docs/2008%20Rempel%20JOR.pdf

Interesting, but may I point out that there is no true cause/effect of carpal tunnel syndrome in this study.  Ill take it as a potential mechanism towards carpal tunnel syndrome causation, but at the moment this is all inference.  Repeated carpal tunnel narrowing may result in eventual carpal tunnel syndrome, but this correlation is not made in the experiment.  In all likelihood however, id be willing to say that this might be the case, and that erring on the side of caution is probably most prudent.  Thanks for the link. 



Offline Sigmoid

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 12:27:36 »
I've seen a few people in the NY hackerspace working on a proof of concept project to teach fingering on musical instruments through buzzers set in a glove...

The same principle could be applied to typing... You'd have a microcontroller interfacing to the PC with a special software, and whenever you hit a key, it would give haptic feedback on the finger that you should have used for that key... It could work to teach and reinforce good typing practice during everyday use...

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 12:28:19 »
That's actually genius Sigmoid. It's so simple!

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 12:50:35 »
You guys are over-complicating this.

Go on 10 fast fingers..

Play very slowly, don't be afraid to look at your hands and type..


It comes down to the formation of muscle memory,  and this is something that "repetition" creates.


When you type  " M ",  think "M" "mother" "medicine" "mercury" "marbles"..

strengthen this neural pathway..  And that's how it's done.




Anyone giving you typing advice that is below 125wpm, don't know what they're talking about..

Unless of course they've read my "speed guide"..

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67941.0

Offline steve.v

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 15:19:27 »
Want to cut finger/wrist travel by half? Forced to type correctly? Thank yourself in the future?
Learn Colemak/Dvorak or anything other than qwerty.  Gluck.

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 18:13:30 »
You guys are over-complicating this.

Go on 10 fast fingers..

Play very slowly, don't be afraid to look at your hands and type..


It comes down to the formation of muscle memory,  and this is something that "repetition" creates.


When you type  " M ",  think "M" "mother" "medicine" "mercury" "marbles"..

strengthen this neural pathway..  And that's how it's done.




Anyone giving you typing advice that is below 125wpm, don't know what they're talking about..

Unless of course they've read my "speed guide"..
Show Image


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67941.0

Nice guide.  After reading it, I was reminded of many of the tricks I used (not now that im relearning!), especially the wrist rolls, glissando, and burst memory parts.  The comparison to the Naruto's 8 gates made me laugh, lol.  Im still at gate one at this point, could I even become a genin at this low a level!?

But im really surprised at how quickly I am able to retrain the muscle memory.  I still find myself wanting to use my pointer finger to reach the 'c' key though, as it feels much more natural to me since it is a mirror image of the 'j' to 'm' stroke.


Offline rsac

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 23 May 2015, 22:39:35 »
But im really surprised at how quickly I am able to retrain the muscle memory.  I still find myself wanting to use my pointer finger to reach the 'c' key though, as it feels much more natural to me since it is a mirror image of the 'j' to 'm' stroke.
I do this too, while mostly correctly touch typing. And I do think it is more ergonomic, at least in a normal row staggered keyboard. See this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=25711.0

Quote
Still, I would have to get new keycaps if I want to make the switch, since the keys on the CM Storm QFR are different depending on the row.  How much does a decent set of caps run you?
You don't need that. If you are learning to touch type, you shouldn't look at the keys anyway. While learning you could print the key layout and leave it in front of your keyboard, but even that is unnecessary.

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 00:52:23 »
But im really surprised at how quickly I am able to retrain the muscle memory.  I still find myself wanting to use my pointer finger to reach the 'c' key though, as it feels much more natural to me since it is a mirror image of the 'j' to 'm' stroke.
I do this too, while mostly correctly touch typing. And I do think it is more ergonomic, at least in a normal row staggered keyboard. See this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=25711.0

Actually im already learning to get used to it.  'c' came up a lot in my typing practice, and the more insistent on using the middle finger I was, the more natural it became.  I originally wanted to learn how to re-type because of my reliance on my left pointer, so I kind of want to do it right this time.

Ill also admit trouble with using the right pointer for 'y', but that is a result of my old muscle memory rather than of ergonomics (I used it incorrectly once while typing this sentence).  I definitely have to fix this problem, as it is just one example of the poor ergonomics of my old technique.  Apparently using the left pointer for 'y' was my most consistent habit.  I think it involved the patterned motion of typing "you(r)", and just rolling right into it with both hands, starting from the left.  Real tough habit to break when im typing at full speed (or typing the word "type", lol).

Quote
Still, I would have to get new keycaps if I want to make the switch, since the keys on the CM Storm QFR are different depending on the row.  How much does a decent set of caps run you?
You don't need that. If you are learning to touch type, you shouldn't look at the keys anyway. While learning you could print the key layout and leave it in front of your keyboard, but even that is unnecessary.

But having QWERTY keys and typing in dvorak would feel ridiculous.  I thought about it a bit more today, and I dont really feel like trying out a new layout.  Especially so that I dont have the visual dvorak format in front of me, and that im already a couple of days into training myself to type QWERTY correctly.  Which fortunately im seeing fairly decent progress, and at this point I already dont want to lose the effort im putting in.

Offline rsac

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 11:14:21 »
Actually im already learning to get used to it.  'c' came up a lot in my typing practice, and the more insistent on using the middle finger I was, the more natural it became.  I originally wanted to learn how to re-type because of my reliance on my left pointer, so I kind of want to do it right this time.
Ok then, but beware of your left wrist angle.

But having QWERTY keys and typing in dvorak would feel ridiculous.  I thought about it a bit more today, and I dont really feel like trying out a new layout.  Especially so that I dont have the visual dvorak format in front of me, and that im already a couple of days into training myself to type QWERTY correctly.  Which fortunately im seeing fairly decent progress, and at this point I already dont want to lose the effort im putting in.
Well, as a compromise you could go with blank keys, but you are not wrong. QWERTY touch typing is a much more useful ability to have, even though it is not as comfortable as touch typing in a layout designed for it.

Offline Kaiteokid

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 11:18:11 »
Ever since i owned a computer, which was when i was a kid.
I consciously tried to force myself to not chop stick type, but to touch type properly. Even if i meant typing real slow at first.
Seems to have paid off since I now (20 years ago) type 100-110 wpm

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 12:57:02 »
Actually im already learning to get used to it.  'c' came up a lot in my typing practice, and the more insistent on using the middle finger I was, the more natural it became.  I originally wanted to learn how to re-type because of my reliance on my left pointer, so I kind of want to do it right this time.
Ok then, but beware of your left wrist angle.
It seems to be ok, though my wrist does do a very slight inward bend when I reach for the 'c' in some cases.  It isnt any different than the reach for 'b' though, so im guessing it should be ok.

But having QWERTY keys and typing in dvorak would feel ridiculous.  I thought about it a bit more today, and I dont really feel like trying out a new layout.  Especially so that I dont have the visual dvorak format in front of me, and that im already a couple of days into training myself to type QWERTY correctly.  Which fortunately im seeing fairly decent progress, and at this point I already dont want to lose the effort im putting in.
Well, as a compromise you could go with blank keys, but you are not wrong. QWERTY touch typing is a much more useful ability to have, even though it is not as comfortable as touch typing in a layout designed for it.

There are a few computers that I use that are in QWERTY format and I am unable to change it.  QWERTY is here to stay just like the standard system of measurement in the US (I can use both though and prefer metric, but sometimes you dont have a choice).  Maybe ill learn a different key layout once I get proficient with proper touch typing in QWERTY.  I do like the way the other layouts are set up, as they depend much less on the bottom row than QWERTY does, which would probably increase typing efficiency.  Im not sure how I feel about getting blank keycaps though, seems a bit hipster to me tbh.  It would make switching the layouts easier though.



Offline Oobly

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 03:54:57 »
Actually im already learning to get used to it.  'c' came up a lot in my typing practice, and the more insistent on using the middle finger I was, the more natural it became.  I originally wanted to learn how to re-type because of my reliance on my left pointer, so I kind of want to do it right this time.
Ok then, but beware of your left wrist angle.
It seems to be ok, though my wrist does do a very slight inward bend when I reach for the 'c' in some cases.  It isnt any different than the reach for 'b' though, so im guessing it should be ok.

But having QWERTY keys and typing in dvorak would feel ridiculous.  I thought about it a bit more today, and I dont really feel like trying out a new layout.  Especially so that I dont have the visual dvorak format in front of me, and that im already a couple of days into training myself to type QWERTY correctly.  Which fortunately im seeing fairly decent progress, and at this point I already dont want to lose the effort im putting in.
Well, as a compromise you could go with blank keys, but you are not wrong. QWERTY touch typing is a much more useful ability to have, even though it is not as comfortable as touch typing in a layout designed for it.

There are a few computers that I use that are in QWERTY format and I am unable to change it.  QWERTY is here to stay just like the standard system of measurement in the US (I can use both though and prefer metric, but sometimes you dont have a choice).  Maybe ill learn a different key layout once I get proficient with proper touch typing in QWERTY.  I do like the way the other layouts are set up, as they depend much less on the bottom row than QWERTY does, which would probably increase typing efficiency.  Im not sure how I feel about getting blank keycaps though, seems a bit hipster to me tbh.  It would make switching the layouts easier though.

All Row 3 SA profile sets can be really nice to type on and you can switch around the caps to any position. If you get a set that doesn't have deep dish or bumped home keys you can lay them out any way you like. Then again, there a few sets selling in GB's with Colemak and Dvorak packs, too.

I prefer Dvorak over Colemak for a number of reasons, but others may be the other way round. It depends on your own preferences:
1. Hand and finger alternation suits me more than rolls and I'm faster that way.
2. Character positioning is very different from QWERTY and this helps maintain independent muscle memory sets.
3. Inward rolls as used in Colemak are not natural for me, I do outward rolls more naturally.

Actually, my favourite layout is a modified form of AdNW Bu-Teck, but that's for my split custom ergo board.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline MajorMajor

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Re: Relearning how to type
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 26 May 2015, 08:03:27 »
You could consider switching to a new keyboard layout like DVORAK or Colemak. This would force you to throw out existing muscle memory.
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