Author Topic: IBM 73X3832—anything special?  (Read 6756 times)

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Offline ander

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IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« on: Sat, 10 October 2015, 18:24:43 »
I don't know if this is necessarily a "Great Find" or not—but as it's related to something for sale, this seemed the most appropriate place to post about it.

IBM 73X3832 Keyboard (eBay)





Are these anything special? I know they're RDs, but how many of us can have a true Unsaver, or SSK of any kind? We could at least look at one of these and pretend it was one of those.  :?)

Does the SSK format make these any more desirable than 122-key Model M's—which, despite being BS, are so much more common?

Also, having never disassembled an RD IBM, is it true that removing the caps from these is trickier, and may even be a bad idea? That'd make them a lot harder to clean, wouldn't it? Just curious.

They sure are cute, in any case... Little serious-looking KBs!
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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 11 October 2015, 12:02:44 »
To be honest, I suppose you could find yourself a 122 and put the guts from it into the case?  Use the membrane from the rubberdome and make a buckling spring model?  If the controller is a standard 1-3 gen, I don't see much difficulty in that.
You might have to get a Colossus from Phosphorglow and use that.
I think it could be done.
(Providing that everything fits.)
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 October 2015, 15:37:17 by Snowdog993 »

Offline engicoder

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 11 October 2015, 19:27:10 »

Also, having never disassembled an RD IBM, is it true that removing the caps from these is trickier, and may even be a bad idea? That'd make them a lot harder to clean, wouldn't it? Just curious.
Nothing special about these caps..they pull off like most others. These are slider over rubber dome.

See this thread
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 October 2015, 19:29:24 by engicoder »
   

Offline darkspider

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 11 October 2015, 19:45:54 »
I also found it few minute ago, and once thought I did good finding lol
But in real use, maybe it feels terrible due to its rubber dome IMO. If I could get F22 buckling spring or 72X3832 for same price, I would choose the former.
However, it still looks pretty good like an Unsaver. So it I think is not a bad finding :)
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Offline ander

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 12 October 2015, 02:51:21 »
I also see this doesn't have the embedded number pad w/secondary legends, like an SSK. I guess that was more an office thing than a mainframe thing.

Quote from: Snowdog993
I suppose you could find yourself a 122 and put the guts from it into the case?  Use the membrane from the rubberdome and make a buckling spring model?  If the controller is a standard 1-3 gen, I don't see much difficulty in that.

Now there's a fun idea: Saw the number pad off of an M-122 and use its barrel plate and switches with the 72X's membrane, and if everything lined up OK (and why would IBM go out of their way to make their spacing different?), voila—an SSK for half the price.

I'm not sure what you mean about the controller, though. Wouldn't you have to replace the controller anyway, as you would with an M-122?

Quote from: darkspider
If I could get F22 buckling spring or 72X3832 for same price, I would choose the former.

Nah, I wasn't comparing this with a Model F, just an M-122... Sorry if I gave you that impression.
« Last Edit: Mon, 12 October 2015, 02:55:33 by ander »
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 12 October 2015, 07:04:49 »
Quote from: Snowdog993
I suppose you could find yourself a 122 and put the guts from it into the case?  Use the membrane from the rubberdome and make a buckling spring model?  If the controller is a standard 1-3 gen, I don't see much difficulty in that.

Saw the number pad off of an M-122 and use its barrel plate  .... an SSK for half the price.

Nah, I wasn't comparing this with a Model F, just an M-122... Sorry if I gave you that impression.


Sawing the numpad off a standard M to make an SSK is very easy, and you just fold the unused part of the membrane around the back.

The only significant problem is cutting and gluing the case into a proper and sturdy configuration.


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Offline Touch_It

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 12 October 2015, 18:51:29 »
To be honest, I suppose you could find yourself a 122 and put the guts from it into the case?  Use the membrane from the rubberdome and make a buckling spring model?  If the controller is a standard 1-3 gen, I don't see much difficulty in that.
You might have to get a Colossus from Phosphorglow and use that.
I think it could be done.
(Providing that everything fits.)

if that can be done, awesome!


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Offline ander

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 15 October 2015, 02:17:12 »
Sawing the numpad off a standard M to make an SSK is very easy, and you just fold the unused part of the membrane around the back... The only significant problem is cutting and gluing the case into a proper and sturdy configuration.

Wow, re folding the membrane.

What do you mean about the case, though? So it supported the assembly internally? You wouldn't be modding the outside, would you? Or are you referring to making an SSK out of a standard case? As you can see, I have many questions.
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Offline ander

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 15 October 2015, 04:09:32 »
I've just heard back from a KB-guru friend, who tells me the 73X3832s use Honeywell innards that are completely different from the BS specs.

He said it'd be easier just to cut down an M-122. Maybe that's what you meant, Fo... Eventually I catch on to these things.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 15 October 2015, 07:53:52 »

So it supported the assembly internally?

You wouldn't be modding the outside, would you? Or are you referring to making an SSK out of a standard case?


That's what I thought you were thinking of. If you don't cut any of the traces, the folded-behind section will still be "alive" but there will simply never be any signals coming through.

Problem is, besides the fact that is where the LED panel is located, as the Model M evolved, more and more circuitry migrated toward the part that you want to cut off and it became harder and harder to connect or re-connect it elsewhere without heavily modifying the case.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline ander

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special? (also, NIB just came on eBay...)
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 16 October 2015, 00:55:35 »
Aaaand here's a NIB one that just hit eBay for $60.00 shipped (Buy It Now):

IBM 73X3832 Quiet Touch Compact Terminal Keyboard, New Old Stock


113916-0


I can't help thinking something like that would be worth that much to a collector...
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Offline t8c

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 16 October 2015, 04:29:40 »
Any idea whether the caps are of good quality? From the looks of it, it looks like making them mx-compatible would not be to difficult if you make a 3d-printable adapter.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 16 October 2015, 20:38:07 »
Anyone know what material the caps are made from? Hoping for PBT  :cool:

I don't have one myself, but I believe they are PBT dyesub.

Honeywell rubber dome switches / sliders. Not compatible with IBM BS though : (
Any idea whether the caps are of good quality? From the looks of it, it looks like making them mx-compatible would not be to difficult if you make a 3d-printable adapter.
It'd be possible but REALLY wobbly.

Easier to cut the stem off completely and glue a MX stem on (or a TG3 stem insert, once you pull it off the key skirt. BL82's are cheap)

Cheaper to just buy a set from unicomp though.

Offline t8c

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 17 October 2015, 07:05:33 »
Thanks for your insight.  I'll try epoxying a mx stem. That caps lock looks delicious.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 17 October 2015, 07:47:08 »
That caps lock looks delicious.

My favorite, too. The one that I am using now has the lock symbol with "Caps Lock" as a sub-legend in blue.

For some reason there is a lot of hatred for stepped keys in general around here.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline ander

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 05:15:46 »
For some reason there is a lot of hatred for stepped keys in general around here.

Dunno why... They're just to get you to press larger keys where they work best: over the switch. Everything's overwhelmingly 1x anyway, so what's the big deal?
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Offline engicoder

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 02 November 2015, 15:35:29 »
Most stepped keys don't seem like a big deal, but the keypad "+" on the Model F PC/XT took things a bit too far.  ;)
   

Offline ander

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 03 November 2015, 01:40:57 »
Most stepped keys don't seem like a big deal, but the keypad "+" on the Model F PC/XT took things a bit too far.  ;)

Well, after all, that one was designed by space aliens.
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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 06 December 2015, 06:41:33 »
Hey guys,

Well, I did end up getting that NIB one (or rather NDB, New in a Different Box), as the seller accepted my rather lowball offer. At that price I figured it was worthwhile as a collector's item, regardless of how much I liked it as a board. But it turns out to be a very nice board, too.

This one was indeed in pristine condition. The seller went to a lot of trouble to pack it in the form-fitting, foam-lined box you see in the photos. Man, is it cute! (I'm not appreciably closer to my mouse though, LOL.)

Any idea whether the caps are of good quality? From the looks of it, it looks like making them mx-compatible would not be to difficult if you make a 3d-printable adapter.

The caps (or buttons, since they're one-piece—that's what IBM would've called them) are thick textured PBT, like new vintage Model M caps. Rather than stems, they have a single blade that fits the vertical slot of the slider's inverted cross. It seems to me you'd have no trouble adapting the sliders to MX.

I'm typing on the board now, using the 270-degree DIN Soarer's Adapter I got for my Model F-122. It's definitely up to IBM's standards at the time. I've never tried an RD Model M, so I can't make that comparison. However, the touch is firm and clean, with a relatively short travel and nice tactility. And because it's built much more solidly than your average RD board, it's really quiet. With a light touch, you can use it nearly silently. (I'm sure some people appreciated the contrast with BS boards back then!)

It also has an impressive full-length, two-position riser, which you can see in the middle photo I posted. It folds out and clicks into place as a single unit; then if you want it half-high, you fold the outer section back into the board—a clever bit of engineering. Each riser section has two long rubber feet, like those at the front and rear.

I first saw one of these under "104-key Model F Keyboards" on DT's IBM Model F page:





The accompanying text says (my emphasis):

Quote
The 104-key Model F was a less common variant of the 122-key terminal keyboard which lacked a numeric keypad... IBM later offered a rubber dome 104-key keyboard (part numbers 73X38xx) for some of their terminals...

It wasn't clear what the author meant by "later". 6 months? 5 years? As a GH member theorized in this other thread on 73X3832s:

I think that's actually a Model F. Those were (i believe) the rubber dome Model F's you asked me about earlier.

So I thought that if I ever found one, it might actually be an F, with a metal case.  But no, it's a "Model 00". So I guess it's in the DT article to show how the design was carried over. (Shouldn't there be an M-122 with the F-122s then? Go figure.)

I'm quite interested to know when this board was made. The label has a date code, though, like this (grimier) example:





(Sorry I haven't had time to take photos of my own.) Mine says 8727—does anyone know what that translates to? 1987-something, maybe? If so, I can't believe anything made back then could be so bright and shiny.

The only thing I don't like is that, unless you remap it, there's no Esc key. So you can't press Ctrl+Esc for the Start Menu; you must actually remove your hand from the KB and use the mouse. However, this inconvenience is offset by getting to pretend there's a real Unsaver on your desk.  :?)
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 December 2015, 07:52:25 by ander »
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Offline engicoder

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 06 December 2015, 21:42:59 »
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you offer?

Edit: The 8727 date code equates for the 27th week of 1987.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 December 2015, 22:03:33 by engicoder »
   

Offline orihalcon

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 06 December 2015, 21:56:53 »
I had one of these for a short time with the idea of transplanting the internals of a cut off F122 into its case.  The part that actually limits everything is that the top elevated part around the F1-F24 keys is not wide enough to fit the top width of the F122 barrel plate.  You'll notice that is much narrower than an unsaver.  Granted, you could probably cut that as well, but there's a lot of traces that would be sacrificed, and I suppose you could in theory use jumper wires to fix that, but just seemed like too much of a headache to pursue further.  Might revisit that thought if another one finds its way to me.

Offline ander

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 04:11:45 »
Quote from: engicoder
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you offer?

Not much more than the shipping.  ;?)

Quote from: engicoder
The 8727 date code equates for the 27th week of 1987.

Right! Guess that should've been obvious. So this would actually be contemporary with a 1390120 or 1390131... Hard to believe, as it looks like it just came out of the shop.

I had one of these for a short time with the idea of transplanting the internals of a cut off F122 into its case. The part that actually limits everything is that the top elevated part around the F1-F24 keys...

Orihalcon, you're a mad genius (but then, everyone knows that). Sounds like a fun project. While an F in this case would be awesome, I'm happy to let mine remain RD, since it's such a high-quality one and IBM actually made them that way.

For what it's worth, another 73X3832 just appeared here on eBay with a start price of $9.99. Not new, but the exterior looks nice and clean. It doesn't seem as though any serious IBM collection could be complete without one of these odd little guys.
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Offline geniekid

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 08:32:39 »
For what it's worth, another 73X3832 just appeared here on eBay with a start price of $9.99. Not new, but the exterior looks nice and clean. It doesn't seem as though any serious IBM collection could be complete without one of these odd little guys.

That's my auction you linked to.  I tried to sell it in the classifieds here for $30 shipped without success so hopefully it'll do better this way.  I will probably put a post up in the Member Auction subforum later today.

Offline geniekid

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 09 December 2015, 09:05:13 »
For what it's worth, another 73X3832 just appeared here on eBay with a start price of $9.99. Not new, but the exterior looks nice and clean. It doesn't seem as though any serious IBM collection could be complete without one of these odd little guys.

That's my auction you linked to.  I tried to sell it in the classifieds here for $30 shipped without success so hopefully it'll do better this way.  I will probably put a post up in the Member Auction subforum later today.

Nvm I guess anders just sold it for me.  Ending the auction to sell this to a GH member that just PMed me.

Offline ander

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 11 December 2015, 07:05:42 »
Nvm I guess anders just sold it for me.  Ending the auction to sell this to a GH member that just PMed me.

Great! Hope they enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine.
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Offline SamirD

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Re: IBM 73X3832—anything special?
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 15 December 2015, 02:19:05 »
Very cool addition to the collection ander!  Glad to see you were finally able to move yours geniekid to a new home thanks to this thread.  Its definitely an interesting board.