Dihedral 79 (80% Merged Ten Key board)

[Dihedral]

Well, I know nobody asked for this... but...


(Attachment Link)


... I thought I would try re-doing it for Cherry MX + Alps


(it's an addiction)

Nice! I was actually considering making mine an alps board.

[metalliqaz]

Did one of these actually get put together? I'd like to see it.

[Adelhyde]

Cool idea Dihedral, I had an idea for a layout a while back that you may find useful:



My solution for the `~ key was to reduce the width of the right Shift key and put `~ next to it. The standard right Shift key is really too wide for its own good, being shorter makes it easier to press down. The layout regack posted already makes it possible to do this. It's nice to have `~ next to Shift for people who use the *nix command line or write SQL queries. My solution for NumLock was to map it to Shift + Caps Lock.

[Dihedral]

Did one of these actually get put together? I'd like to see it.

Not yet, it's floating in the 'things I might do' section of my brain. If anyone else wants to try it I'd be more than happy for them to have a go.

[TalkingTree]

This design is pretty cool. One thing though. If you remove one modifier off Row 4, namely the right winkey, you get a symmetrical layout, so you can move the numpad/arrows to the left by simply flipping the plate over.

[Dihedral]

This design is pretty cool. One thing though. If you remove one modifier off Row 4, namely the right winkey, you get a symmetrical layout, so you can move the numpad/arrows to the left by simply flipping the plate over.

I like having all the modifiers, but I guess if you don't use them all that's not a bad idea.

[metalliqaz]

This design is pretty cool. One thing though. If you remove one modifier off Row 4, namely the right winkey, you get a symmetrical layout, so you can move the numpad/arrows to the left by simply flipping the plate over.

Enter != Caps Lock.  It's not symmetrical.

[shrubkeys]

This is similar to the layout I drafted when I knew more mechanical engineers.

The only important modifications for me would be to put rarely-used keys (Ins, PrSc, ScrLk, Pause, Caps) on a function layer - real estate on my keyboard is precious! And why aren't PgUp/Down lined up with Home/End? I'm also a big, big fan of thumb modifiers - strong finger, no moving - and would gladly devote part of the space bar area to Ctrl or Pn. Presumably any custom keyboard would have customizable firmware/keymapping, though...

[TalkingTree]

This design is pretty cool. One thing though. If you remove one modifier off Row 4, namely the right winkey, you get a symmetrical layout, so you can move the numpad/arrows to the left by simply flipping the plate over.

Enter != Caps Lock.  It's not symmetrical.

Right, I overlooked that.

[Dihedral]

Once the Steel Switch Holder GB is all over and done with, would anyone be interested in some plates for this? This is not even an interest check, just wondering if anyone cares

[suicidal_orange]

As you know I like this design but I've always felt something is off and have just worked out what that is - it's missing a column for + - * / and .  The only reasons I use a number pad are calculations or writing dates so I need these symbols, for a single number it's quicker to hit the top row.

I guess these are among the "keys you don't need" so I don't expect them to be added, but I'm not interested if they're not there.  Maybe you can you get plates cut with a detachable column?  Though then you fragment any case buys...

Thoughts?

[Dihedral]

As you know I like this design but I've always felt something is off and have just worked out what that is - it's missing a column for + - * / and .  The only reasons I use a number pad are calculations or writing dates so I need these symbols, for a single number it's quicker to hit the top row.

I guess these are among the "keys you don't need" so I don't expect them to be added, but I'm not interested if they're not there.  Maybe you can you get plates cut with a detachable column?  Though then you fragment any case buys...

Thoughts?

Like this? It doesn't look good, quite frankly, and I wouldn't use it, but maybe it could be an option.

[Dihedral]

Here's another option - access the symbols with shift which keeps the comapact layout. It sounds bad but shift is quite a comfortable key to press with your thumb. For me at least, this would be enough as I don't use the numpad excessively.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/1261b9caf76482d877b121eb11203a70

[suicidal_orange]

You're right, that doesn't look good and the symbol keys aren't be on the right rows so keycaps will be an issue, and enter is too low...  No go.

Just trying to get my head round the firmware side of things for the shift option.  Your num lock isn't really, it's a layer switch - no problem.  With the number layer active to access the symbols using shift it would have to become another layer switch, but to type with the numpad enabled and select test using the arrows it will still need to be a shift key.  I requested "implied shift" mode which has been added to easy AVR (thanks Metalliqaz!) so this is also no problem.  This just leaves selecting text using "Home" and "End" broken, but they could be swapped for "Del" and "PrntSc" on the shifted number layer...

Am I missing anything?

[Dihedral]

You're right, that doesn't look good and the symbol keys aren't be on the right rows so keycaps will be an issue, and enter is too low...  No go.

Just trying to get my head round the firmware side of things for the shift option.  Your num lock isn't really, it's a layer switch - no problem.  With the number layer active to access the symbols using shift it would have to become another layer switch, but to type with the numpad enabled and select test using the arrows it will still need to be a shift key.  I requested "implied shift" mode which has been added to easy AVR (thanks Metalliqaz!) so this is also no problem.  This just leaves selecting text using "Home" and "End" broken, but they could be swapped for "Del" and "PrntSc" on the shifted number layer...

Am I missing anything?

This is how it should function - not sure about how this would be implemented; I have no firmware experience.

if shift held down - do the function on shift and return. If there is none then continue
if num lock active - do the function on numlock and return. if there is none then continue
do basic function

[suicidal_orange]

This is how it should function - not sure about how this would be implemented; I have no firmware experience.

if shift held down - do the function on shift and return. If there is none then continue
if num lock active - do the function on numlock and return. if there is none then continue
do basic function

Fair enough, I'm not overly experienced myself

Programatically it works like this (for numpad 9):

If "num lock"
    If "shift"
        -
    else
        9
else
    home

But in firmware terms "shift" isn't a real shift as neither shift and 9 or home are "-" so each option maps to a different layer, but luckily shift and numpad symbols are still symbols.

The added complication here is that you need an actual "num lock" key somewhere in case you use the board on a computer with it off by default, otherwise you'll have no numbers and the 9 key would send "PgUp" when the number layer is active.

This might just work!

[Dihedral]

This is how it should function - not sure about how this would be implemented; I have no firmware experience.

if shift held down - do the function on shift and return. If there is none then continue
if num lock active - do the function on numlock and return. if there is none then continue
do basic function

Fair enough, I'm not overly experienced myself

Programatically it works like this (for numpad 9):

If "num lock"
    If "shift"
        -
    else
        9
else
    home

But in firmware terms "shift" isn't a real shift as neither shift and 9 or home are "-" so each option maps to a different layer, but luckily shift and numpad symbols are still symbols.

The added complication here is that you need an actual "num lock" key somewhere in case you use the board on a computer with it off by default, otherwise you'll have no numbers and the 9 key would send "PgUp" when the number layer is active.

This might just work!

I don't understand the difference between my numlock key and any other...?

[suicidal_orange]

I don't understand the difference between my numlock key and any other...?

Numlock is a special key which controls a toggle in the operating system rather than in the keyboard - if you plug in two keyboards and press numlock on one the other knows and it's LED lights up.  With this official numlock switched off you get PgUp as found on most keycaps

[Dihedral]

I don't understand the difference between my numlock key and any other...?

Numlock is a special key which controls a toggle in the operating system rather than in the keyboard - if you plug in two keyboards and press numlock on one the other knows and it's LED lights up.  With this official numlock switched off you get PgUp as found on most keycaps

So a 'real numlock' would just assume that my numpad was like a standard one?

[suicidal_orange]

I don't understand the difference between my numlock key and any other...?

Numlock is a special key which controls a toggle in the operating system rather than in the keyboard - if you plug in two keyboards and press numlock on one the other knows and it's LED lights up.  With this official numlock switched off you get PgUp as found on most keycaps

So a 'real numlock' would just assume that my numpad was like a standard one?

Eh... I'm not sure I can explain this.  I made layouts to show what I would do but it crashes on saving so you'll have to past the raw data below in.

More

[{a:5,w:3,w2:1},"\n\n\n\n\n\nyour num lock on",{x:0.5,w:3},"\n\n\n\n\n\nYour numlock plus shift",{x:0.5,w:3},"\n\n\n\n\n\nyour numlock off"],
[{y:0.5,a:4},"7\nHome","8\n↑","9\nPgUp",{x:0.5,a:5},"real\nlock\n\n\n\n\nnum","\n\n\n\n\n\n/","\n\n\n\n\n\n*",{x:0.5,a:6},"Ins","Menu","Home"],
[{a:4},"4\n←","5","6\n→",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\nPgUp","",{a:5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n-",{x:0.5,a:6},"Delete","PgUp","End"],
[{a:4},"1\nEnd","2\n↓","3\nPgDn",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\nPgDn","",{a:5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n+",{x:0.5,a:7},"PrntSc","PgDn","Pause"],
[{a:5},"0\nIns","\n\n\n\n\n\n↑",{a:4},".\nDel",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\nHome",{a:5},"\n↑",{a:4},"\n\n\n\n\n\nEnd",{x:0.5},"",{a:5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n↑",{a:4},"\n\n\n\n\n\nEnter"],
[{a:5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n←","\n\n\n\n\n\n↓","\n\n\n\n\n\n→",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n←","\n\n\n\n\n\n↓","\n\n\n\n\n\n→",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n←","\n\n\n\n\n\n↓","\n\n\n\n\n\n→"]

If "real numlock" is off and your numlock is on you will get the bottom legends, only if both are on do you get the numbers.  Ideally "real numlock" would always be on, but you can't make this happen.

I'm still thinking about it and haven't come up with anything that can't be done with the these three layers so I think I'm worrying you unnecessarily, as long as "implied shift" is an option in other firmwares or we can make this popular/standard enough that Metalliqaz adds it to EasyAVR.

[Dihedral]

I don't understand the difference between my numlock key and any other...?

Numlock is a special key which controls a toggle in the operating system rather than in the keyboard - if you plug in two keyboards and press numlock on one the other knows and it's LED lights up.  With this official numlock switched off you get PgUp as found on most keycaps

So a 'real numlock' would just assume that my numpad was like a standard one?

Eh... I'm not sure I can explain this.  I made layouts to show what I would do but it crashes on saving so you'll have to past the raw data below in.

More

[{a:5,w:3,w2:1},"\n\n\n\n\n\nyour num lock on",{x:0.5,w:3},"\n\n\n\n\n\nYour numlock plus shift",{x:0.5,w:3},"\n\n\n\n\n\nyour numlock off"],
[{y:0.5,a:4},"7\nHome","8\n↑","9\nPgUp",{x:0.5,a:5},"real\nlock\n\n\n\n\nnum","\n\n\n\n\n\n/","\n\n\n\n\n\n*",{x:0.5,a:6},"Ins","Menu","Home"],
[{a:4},"4\n←","5","6\n→",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\nPgUp","",{a:5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n-",{x:0.5,a:6},"Delete","PgUp","End"],
[{a:4},"1\nEnd","2\n↓","3\nPgDn",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\nPgDn","",{a:5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n+",{x:0.5,a:7},"PrntSc","PgDn","Pause"],
[{a:5},"0\nIns","\n\n\n\n\n\n↑",{a:4},".\nDel",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\nHome",{a:5},"\n↑",{a:4},"\n\n\n\n\n\nEnd",{x:0.5},"",{a:5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n↑",{a:4},"\n\n\n\n\n\nEnter"],
[{a:5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n←","\n\n\n\n\n\n↓","\n\n\n\n\n\n→",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n←","\n\n\n\n\n\n↓","\n\n\n\n\n\n→",{x:0.5},"\n\n\n\n\n\n←","\n\n\n\n\n\n↓","\n\n\n\n\n\n→"]

If "real numlock" is off and your numlock is on you will get the bottom legends, only if both are on do you get the numbers.  Ideally "real numlock" would always be on, but you can't make this happen.

I'm still thinking about it and haven't come up with anything that can't be done with the these three layers so I think I'm worrying you unnecessarily, as long as "implied shift" is an option in other firmwares or we can make this popular/standard enough that Metalliqaz adds it to EasyAVR.

I think we can safely theorise about the boards operation and cross the bridge of implementing it when the time comes. Would you be interested in this board if symbols could be accessed by the shift key as proposed?

[suicidal_orange]

I think we can safely theorise about the boards operation and cross the bridge of implementing it when the time comes. Would you be interested in this board if symbols could be accessed by the shift key as proposed?

I'm now satisfied that it can work so am definitely interested but it needs ISO support.  This is going to be UK designed and made, it makes sense to cater for the locals

LibreCAD is installing as we speak to attempt to do this, but I have no clue how it works.  How hard can it be...

[Dihedral]

I think we can safely theorise about the boards operation and cross the bridge of implementing it when the time comes. Would you be interested in this board if symbols could be accessed by the shift key as proposed?

I'm now satisfied that it can work so am definitely interested but it needs ISO support.  This is going to be UK designed and made, it makes sense to cater for the locals

LibreCAD is installing as we speak to attempt to do this, but I have no clue how it works.  How hard can it be...

I myself have defected to ANSI, but sure, if it's a UK board then it does make sense to do ISO.

I played around with that keyboard-layout-editor code you sent me and have changed it to a better (IMO) layout which I think would work quite well. When I say numlock, I mean my numlock not real numlock. Thoughts?

[suicidal_orange]

I think we can safely theorise about the boards operation and cross the bridge of implementing it when the time comes. Would you be interested in this board if symbols could be accessed by the shift key as proposed?

I'm now satisfied that it can work so am definitely interested but it needs ISO support.  This is going to be UK designed and made, it makes sense to cater for the locals

LibreCAD is installing as we speak to attempt to do this, but I have no clue how it works.  How hard can it be...

I myself have defected to ANSI, but sure, if it's a UK board then it does make sense to do ISO.

I played around with that keyboard-layout-editor code you sent me and have changed it to a better (IMO) layout which I think would work quite well. When I say numlock, I mean my numlock not real numlock. Thoughts?

I quite often use shift and PgUp/PgDn/Home/End to select text so messy as it looks I'll have them there somewhere, and I'd rather have the symbols in their normal places but that's personal preference and will be user selectable.  You do raise a good point that shift could switch the numpad functions regardless of numlock - shift and delete/ print screen make no sense so may as well remap nav keys closer.

You have got rid of "real numlock" though - you will need one somewhere!

[Dihedral]

I think we can safely theorise about the boards operation and cross the bridge of implementing it when the time comes. Would you be interested in this board if symbols could be accessed by the shift key as proposed?

I'm now satisfied that it can work so am definitely interested but it needs ISO support.  This is going to be UK designed and made, it makes sense to cater for the locals

LibreCAD is installing as we speak to attempt to do this, but I have no clue how it works.  How hard can it be...

I myself have defected to ANSI, but sure, if it's a UK board then it does make sense to do ISO.

I played around with that keyboard-layout-editor code you sent me and have changed it to a better (IMO) layout which I think would work quite well. When I say numlock, I mean my numlock not real numlock. Thoughts?

I quite often use shift and PgUp/PgDn/Home/End to select text so messy as it looks I'll have them there somewhere, and I'd rather have the symbols in their normal places but that's personal preference and will be user selectable.  You do raise a good point that shift could switch the numpad functions regardless of numlock - shift and delete/ print screen make no sense so may as well remap nav keys closer.

You have got rid of "real numlock" though - you will need one somewhere!

real numlock can go in one of the blank spaces in the shift layer... right? I don't see the issue with PgUp/PgDn/Home/End - they are effectively where they are on a normal board.

[suicidal_orange]

I think we can safely theorise about the boards operation and cross the bridge of implementing it when the time comes. Would you be interested in this board if symbols could be accessed by the shift key as proposed?

I'm now satisfied that it can work so am definitely interested but it needs ISO support.  This is going to be UK designed and made, it makes sense to cater for the locals

LibreCAD is installing as we speak to attempt to do this, but I have no clue how it works.  How hard can it be...

I myself have defected to ANSI, but sure, if it's a UK board then it does make sense to do ISO.

I played around with that keyboard-layout-editor code you sent me and have changed it to a better (IMO) layout which I think would work quite well. When I say numlock, I mean my numlock not real numlock. Thoughts?

I quite often use shift and PgUp/PgDn/Home/End to select text so messy as it looks I'll have them there somewhere, and I'd rather have the symbols in their normal places but that's personal preference and will be user selectable.  You do raise a good point that shift could switch the numpad functions regardless of numlock - shift and delete/ print screen make no sense so may as well remap nav keys closer.

You have got rid of "real numlock" though - you will need one somewhere!

real numlock can go in one of the blank spaces in the shift layer... right? I don't see the issue with PgUp/PgDn/Home/End - they are effectively where they are on a normal board.

Indeed it can, any key can do anything

The nav keys are fine but once you press shift you are changing home and PgUp to * and - so can't use shift + home/PgUp to select text, which I often do.

[Dihedral]

I think we can safely theorise about the boards operation and cross the bridge of implementing it when the time comes. Would you be interested in this board if symbols could be accessed by the shift key as proposed?

I'm now satisfied that it can work so am definitely interested but it needs ISO support.  This is going to be UK designed and made, it makes sense to cater for the locals

LibreCAD is installing as we speak to attempt to do this, but I have no clue how it works.  How hard can it be...

I myself have defected to ANSI, but sure, if it's a UK board then it does make sense to do ISO.

I played around with that keyboard-layout-editor code you sent me and have changed it to a better (IMO) layout which I think would work quite well. When I say numlock, I mean my numlock not real numlock. Thoughts?

I quite often use shift and PgUp/PgDn/Home/End to select text so messy as it looks I'll have them there somewhere, and I'd rather have the symbols in their normal places but that's personal preference and will be user selectable.  You do raise a good point that shift could switch the numpad functions regardless of numlock - shift and delete/ print screen make no sense so may as well remap nav keys closer.

You have got rid of "real numlock" though - you will need one somewhere!

real numlock can go in one of the blank spaces in the shift layer... right? I don't see the issue with PgUp/PgDn/Home/End - they are effectively where they are on a normal board.

Indeed it can, any key can do anything

The nav keys are fine but once you press shift you are changing home and PgUp to * and - so can't use shift + home/PgUp to select text, which I often do.

Oh right. The only other option is basically Ctrl. Alt would make more sense but it's a stretch to reach.

[suicidal_orange]

I just tried adding ISO keys over the ANSI ones on the layout editor and put it in Swill's plate builder - it produced a plate design that looks a lot like one I found on Gon's site so that was easier than learning CAD!

I'm now having a play to make this work with the "Hack'd by Geeks" set which has two 1.75 blanks to use in the spacebar position - hopefully it can work with your bottom row, though the PCB may be a little messy.

[suicidal_orange]

I just had a read through Swill's plate builder thread and seems there are big savings to be had by combining multiple plates into one file which uses most of a sheet.  To me this means that rather than everyone agreeing on a layout everyone can come up with their own and go in on the same order - does it get any better than that?

Methinks it's time to contact some cutters for more info/quotes

Edit: Sent a couple of e-mails, not expecting a reply tonight...

[Dihedral]

I just had a read through Swill's plate builder thread and seems there are big savings to be had by combining multiple plates into one file which uses most of a sheet.  To me this means that rather than everyone agreeing on a layout everyone can come up with their own and go in on the same order - does it get any better than that?

Methinks it's time to contact some cutters for more info/quotes

Edit: Sent a couple of e-mails, not expecting a reply tonight...

I have a laser cutter we can use. If its only a few of us then sure, but if it becones a full GB then id like to offer just a few layouts - maybe ANSI Left numpad,  ANSI right numpad, ISO left or ISO right.

[suicidal_orange]

You actually own a laser cutter, but haven't made a plate yet?!  That's some impressive self control.  I got one quote back, £25 for the original design with square holes or £27.25 for my slightly larger bordered ISO with notched holes (both based on a sheet full of 24 plates)

How much is a sheet of steel anyway?  I didn't realise they were so big )

[neverused]

I just realized that I posted a fairly similar layout previously: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65702.msg1584563#msg1584563

While definitely not the exact same, there are very common elements for sure. 

Good luck with this!

[Dihedral]

You actually own a laser cutter, but haven't made a plate yet?!  That's some impressive self control.  I got one quote back, £25 for the original design with square holes or £27.25 for my slightly larger bordered ISO with notched holes (both based on a sheet full of 24 plates)

How much is a sheet of steel anyway?  I didn't realise they were so big )

Sorry that's not what I meant. I have a laser cutting company that I can use is what I meant to say

[suicidal_orange]

I was bored and have switches lying around so I made a numberpad to simulate the one on the D-79 out of hot glue, which I shall be using alongside my JD40.  Need to sort the firmware with layers but it works!

More

How much does your cutter want for a very small run of these?  Seems the interest has dwindled considerably

[joey]

You actually own a laser cutter, but haven't made a plate yet?!  That's some impressive self control.  I got one quote back, £25 for the original design with square holes or £27.25 for my slightly larger bordered ISO with notched holes (both based on a sheet full of 24 plates)

How much is a sheet of steel anyway?  I didn't realise they were so big )

Where from? I'm looking for good places in the UK.

[Dihedral]

I was bored and have switches lying around so I made a numberpad to simulate the one on the D-79 out of hot glue, which I shall be using alongside my JD40.  Need to sort the firmware with layers but it works!

More

Show Image

Show Image

How much does your cutter want for a very small run of these?  Seems the interest has dwindled considerably

Have not asked for a quote yet - I predict around £20 for about 10 or 20.

[retainerbox]

What I want is a TKL + the right side of what you designed (the arrows/numpad combo). Either as a standalone, or attached to a TKL.

Moving the backspace to the left thumb I think deviates a little too much from a standard layout (for me!).

[Dihedral]

What I want is a TKL + the right side of what you designed (the arrows/numpad combo). Either as a standalone, or attached to a TKL.

Moving the backspace to the left thumb I think deviates a little too much from a standard layout (for me!).

So the same as the current design but with standard key placement in the main block and with F-keys?

[retainerbox]

What I want is a TKL + the right side of what you designed (the arrows/numpad combo). Either as a standalone, or attached to a TKL.

Moving the backspace to the left thumb I think deviates a little too much from a standard layout (for me!).

So the same as the current design but with standard key placement in the main block and with F-keys?

Wait, I just realized what I wrote was confusing, even to me. But yes, if I understood what you wrote. 60% on the left, and your arrow/numpad combo.

[Dihedral]

What I want is a TKL + the right side of what you designed (the arrows/numpad combo). Either as a standalone, or attached to a TKL.

Moving the backspace to the left thumb I think deviates a little too much from a standard layout (for me!).

So the same as the current design but with standard key placement in the main block and with F-keys?

Wait, I just realized what I wrote was confusing, even to me. But yes, if I understood what you wrote. 60% on the left, and your arrow/numpad combo.

60% normally does NOT have F-Keys. Do you want F-Keys?

[MrFex]

Dihedral 79

• Have a quote for a plate, but would prefer to buy a few and sell some on. If you want a plate, please post in this thread.

Plate image:

Show Image

I would enjoy a plate, but I need a different model. Do you know where I can get plates for different models? Or get a quote somewhere?

[Dihedral]

Dihedral 79

• Have a quote for a plate, but would prefer to buy a few and sell some on. If you want a plate, please post in this thread.

Plate image:

Show Image

I would enjoy a plate, but I need a different model. Do you know where I can get plates for different models? Or get a quote somewhere?

Go to a service like BigBlueSaw in the US or LaserMaster in the UK. They can sort you out with something.[/list]

[MrFex]

Dihedral 79

• Have a quote for a plate, but would prefer to buy a few and sell some on. If you want a plate, please post in this thread.

Plate image:

Show Image

Thank you Sir, very appreciated. I will check those out...

I would enjoy a plate, but I need a different model. Do you know where I can get plates for different models? Or get a quote somewhere?

Go to a service like BigBlueSaw in the US or LaserMaster in the UK. They can sort you out with something.[/list]

[Dihedral]

I think I'm going to change it so fn will be moved into the key between Backspace and Space.

[Dihedral]

Added a link to function layers (http://imgur.com/a/pZd46)

EDIT: OUTDATED

[suicidal_orange]

I'm playing spot the difference between your latest layer suggestions and the PCB suggested by regack a couple of pages back.  I have a cold so am not at my best, but I'm not seeing any physical changes - is it just what key does what that's changed?

The one sticking point for me at the moment is the 2.75 keys at the bottom as no cap sets include them and PMK only have blanks in DSA or DCS.

[Dihedral]

I'm playing spot the difference between your latest layer suggestions and the PCB suggested by regack a couple of pages back.  I have a cold so am not at my best, but I'm not seeing any physical changes - is it just what key does what that's changed?

The one sticking point for me at the moment is the 2.75 keys at the bottom as no cap sets include them and PMK only have blanks in DSA or DCS.

I'm planning to get some DCS row 4 ones and maybe sell them with the board; or do a d79 kit for my ocean basalt keyset.

[Dihedral]

I'm playing spot the difference between your latest layer suggestions and the PCB suggested by regack a couple of pages back.  I have a cold so am not at my best, but I'm not seeing any physical changes - is it just what key does what that's changed?

The one sticking point for me at the moment is the 2.75 keys at the bottom as no cap sets include them and PMK only have blanks in DSA or DCS.

Oh, yeah, no physical changes.

[Dihedral]

OK, the new image is definitive. All old ones may not be correct. The function layers album in particular has a few mistakes.

[suicidal_orange]

One last thing then before declaring this complete - the keycap profile.  If it's not flat (really hope it isn't) does the bottom row of the D79 numberpad match the profile of the standard up arrow?  Would be a shame if it didn't