What Hako or Kaihua switch would I like if I am a MX Browns fan?

[DuckNorris]

I am trying to order a whitefox but some of these switches aside from the MX Clear I could not recognize , Hako True and Hako Clear , and some Kaihua switches. I tried reading about them and reviews and got confused. Has anyone actually tried these and can let me know which one I should pick if I like the feels of MX Browns and light Topre (45g)?

Options are

Hako True, Hako Clear, Cherry MX Clear, Kaihua Blue, Kaihua Speed Silver, Kaihua Speed Bronze, Kaihua Speed Copper

This would be easier if the input club offered different MX or MX clones switches like they did on MD but this is all I got to work with and I wanted one for a while.

Thanks!

[Kevadu]

I don't think any of those switches exactly correspond to MX browns, so maybe you could be more clear about exactly what you're looking for.  Copper is a tactile switch kind of like browns, but being a 'speed' switch means it has a higher actuation point and slightly shorter total travel distance.  Whether that's a good thing or not is kind of subjective.  Speed switches in general are kind of aimed at the gaming crowd, though it's not like you can't type on them.

If you're mainly going to be using it for typing I would seriously consider Hako True switches.  Though I haven't personally used them I do have their predecessor (Halo Trues, Hako True is basically the box version of Halo True so they should feel pretty similar) in my K-Type and I'm honestly surprised by how much I like them.  Surprised because I normally go for more tactile or clicky switches while Halo Trues are barely tactile in the traditional sense at all.  They do have one pretty unique feature though: Post actuation the slope of the force curve increases significantly, meaning that the difference in actuation and bottom out force is a lot larger in these switches than most traditional designs.  This discourages you from bottoming out at all and gives your typing a pretty unique springy feeling.  Nothing else I've used it quite like it.

I have heard a lot of people compare Halo/Hako True to Topre but I don't think that's quite right.  True they're both pretty smooth switch designs with modest tactility but Topre doesn't have the high bottoming out force that Trues do.  I think the Hako Clear might actually be closer but I haven't personally used those.  They're supposed to have a somewhat more defined tactile bump than Trues but again lack the really high bottoming out force.

[t_southwell]

I got some copper switches for a 60% build and after using them for a long period of time I wouldn't personally recommend them as I found them (as they are speed switches) too easy to misclick. If you are gaming with them they are great but I found typing on them more difficult. The bump on the copper switches is definitely more noticeable than on browns though which is good.

[_haru]

To be completely honest I don't think if you will like most of these switches very much, if you are a hardcore MX Brown fan like me. Even Gateron Browns feel nothing like them. I haven't tried them yet personally but I've heard that Greetech Browns are pretty damn good too. They're only 1CNY each on Taobao so perhaps order some on your next run

[rich1051414]

It depends on what it is about browns you like. If you like them being light or if you like the very subtle tactility. Unlike topre, you don't have to sacrifice as much tactility if you want a lighter switch.

If you do like the subtle tactility, I cannot help you, since I like to feel the switch. If you just like it to be light, then I suggest you look into Outemu Ice purple 55g and Kailh purple 50g.

[_haru]

It depends on what it is about browns you like. If you like them being light or if you like the very subtle tactility. Unlike topre, you don't have to sacrifice as much tactility if you want a lighter switch.

If you do like the subtle tactility, I cannot help you, since I like to feel the switch. If you just like it to be light, then I suggest you look into Outemu Ice purple 55g and Kailh purple 50g.

ICE Purps are 62g (Dark purps are 68g, Grey are 75). Also Kailh Pro Purples are basically just scratchy ergo clears imo. Other than that, i agree with you

[Findecanor]

I think the Hako Clear might actually be closer but I haven't personally used those.  They're supposed to have a somewhat more defined tactile bump than Trues but again lack the really high bottoming out force.

Hako Clear and Hako True have the same slider but the True has a stiffer spring. Often, stiffer springs will make tactile bumps feel smaller.

I've heard that Greetech Browns are pretty damn good too.

Beware that there are two varieties of Greetech Browns. One has a tactile bump at 50g and the other at 60g. Both bumps are earlier in the key travel than on Cherry MX. The Hako and Halo switches have less sharp bumps even earlier.

[rich1051414]

It depends on what it is about browns you like. If you like them being light or if you like the very subtle tactility. Unlike topre, you don't have to sacrifice as much tactility if you want a lighter switch.

If you do like the subtle tactility, I cannot help you, since I like to feel the switch. If you just like it to be light, then I suggest you look into Outemu Ice purple 55g and Kailh purple 50g.

ICE Purps are 62g (Dark purps are 68g, Grey are 75). Also Kailh Pro Purples are basically just scratchy ergo clears imo. Other than that, i agree with you

There are 55g ice purples if memory serves, they are light purple color. I could be remembering wrong tho.

[HotRoderX]

Honestly OP you can rule out the Hako switches automatically there nothing like brown's. There extremely heavy I tried a set of Halo Clear's that the Hako's are technically based off of they where extremely heavy. As far as switch choices go from whats being offered. As others said Speed Copper's are as close to brown's as you will find in that mix up. Speed Copper's are not very good switches in my opinion. The tactile bump feels grainy and almost like after thought. its extremely high in the key press and overall felt really poorly executed. Give your mileage will very.

[t_southwell]

I agree with this. While I have never tried Hako switches, I know that the Coppers are quite similar to the browns but I agree that the tactile bump is much too high in the press and would definitely not recommend them. You should consider trying these switches before you make the order.

[Kevadu]

Honestly OP you can rule out the Hako switches automatically there nothing like brown's. There extremely heavy I tried a set of Halo Clear's that the Hako's are technically based off of they where extremely heavy.

Halo/Hako switches are only 'extremely heavy' if you're talking about bottoming out force.  Actuation force is pretty standard (though still more than browns but then most switches are).  Again that's kind of the whole point of these switches.  You're really not supposed to bottom out when you type, though I suspect most people still do even with mechanical switches because it's only a couple mm between actuation and bottoming out and the difference in force for most switch types isn't really that big.  Halo/Hako switches are some of the few switches out there specifically designed to discourage bottoming out.

Obviously it's different from MX brown, though personally I would argue that they're far superior.  But unfortunately the OP didn't give us much to go by besides he wanted something like brown.  But then he also mentions liking Topre which doesn't really feel anything like brown either so...

[HotRoderX]

Honestly OP you can rule out the Hako switches automatically there nothing like brown's. There extremely heavy I tried a set of Halo Clear's that the Hako's are technically based off of they where extremely heavy.

Halo/Hako switches are only 'extremely heavy' if you're talking about bottoming out force.  Actuation force is pretty standard (though still more than browns but then most switches are).  Again that's kind of the whole point of these switches.  You're really not supposed to bottom out when you type, though I suspect most people still do even with mechanical switches because it's only a couple mm between actuation and bottoming out and the difference in force for most switch types isn't really that big.  Halo/Hako switches are some of the few switches out there specifically designed to discourage bottoming out.

Obviously it's different from MX brown, though personally I would argue that they're far superior.  But unfortunately the OP didn't give us much to go by besides he wanted something like brown.  But then he also mentions liking Topre which doesn't really feel anything like brown either so...

I can't agree with that going by Input clubs own information. The difference between hako switches and brown switches is substantial.

Brown MX switches
Tactile Peak Force   ~45 gf
Actuation Force   ~37 gf
Bottom-Out Force   ~55 gf
Spring Force   ~55 gf

Hako True Switches
Tactile Peak Force    ~58 gf
Actuation Force    ~60 gf
Bottom-Out Force    ~94 gf
Spring Force    ~95 gf

Hako Clear Switches
Tactile Peak Force    ~63 gf
Actuation Force    ~55 gf
Bottom-Out Force    ~79 gf
Spring Force    ~75 gf

+10gf in almost all accounts is a substantial difference in force required to accurate the switches. 

[_haru]

It depends on what it is about browns you like. If you like them being light or if you like the very subtle tactility. Unlike topre, you don't have to sacrifice as much tactility if you want a lighter switch.

If you do like the subtle tactility, I cannot help you, since I like to feel the switch. If you just like it to be light, then I suggest you look into Outemu Ice purple 55g and Kailh purple 50g.

ICE Purps are 62g (Dark purps are 68g, Grey are 75). Also Kailh Pro Purples are basically just scratchy ergo clears imo. Other than that, i agree with you

There are 55g ice purples if memory serves, they are light purple color. I could be remembering wrong tho.

Nope, 62g. Browns are 55g though and use the same stem.

[DuckNorris]

Honestly OP you can rule out the Hako switches automatically there nothing like brown's. There extremely heavy I tried a set of Halo Clear's that the Hako's are technically based off of they where extremely heavy.

Halo/Hako switches are only 'extremely heavy' if you're talking about bottoming out force.  Actuation force is pretty standard (though still more than browns but then most switches are).  Again that's kind of the whole point of these switches.  You're really not supposed to bottom out when you type, though I suspect most people still do even with mechanical switches because it's only a couple mm between actuation and bottoming out and the difference in force for most switch types isn't really that big.  Halo/Hako switches are some of the few switches out there specifically designed to discourage bottoming out.

Obviously it's different from MX brown, though personally I would argue that they're far superior.  But unfortunately the OP didn't give us much to go by besides he wanted something like brown.  But then he also mentions liking Topre which doesn't really feel anything like brown either so...

I want something with a bump and not too hard to press(also not loud) . That is what I like about browns. Sorry I did not give much more detail as I was more concerned with the limited options I was given by the Input Club in this round of White Fox sell sadly...


Unless I can desolder all of them and solder then back. I know thank you all for the input basically you guys are right none of these will be that close to Browns but I REALLY want a whitefox for the aesthetics sigh...

After reading all of these comments I have decided to contact Input Club if I can just assemble the thing myself and buy my own switches as I also doubt I would like any of their current switch options... Thank you all for your input!

[davkol]

I can't agree with that going by Input clubs own information. The difference between hako switches and brown switches is substantial.

I don't get what you're disagreeing with.

Cherry MX Brown is a low-force switch. It was originally designed like that (for Kinesis) and there's hardly any disagreement about this.

Medium-force switches actuate somewhere around 60 cN and have dominated the market in the long term—since the 1980s. Generic rubber domes, Cherry MX Black and Clear/White (or consequently Blue), many mainstream Alps switches and their clones including Matias…

When you look at datasheets for these switches, though, you'll see quite large ranges for manufacturing tolerance.

MX Brown, for example, should actuate at 45 cN, but Cherry only guarantees that it'll actuate at more than 30 cN… it might be stiffer too. HaaTa's (small) sample was within that range, and a switch from another batch (from the 25-year history of MX Brown switches) might be somewhere else in that range.

Anyway, there's nothing "extremely heavy" about keyboard switches with actuation and bump around 60 cN.

[vincent88928]

To be completely honest I don't think if you will like most of these switches very much, if you are a hardcore MX Brown fan like me. Even Gateron Browns feel nothing like them. I haven't tried them yet personally but I've heard that Greetech Browns are pretty damn good too. They're only 1CNY each on Taobao so perhaps order some on your next run

Is greetech brown pretty good?Do you mean black housing ones or new edition