AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Axios [In Development]

[AcidFire]

AFAIK, you typically are only limited by the hardware/standards...

Which, as I understand it, is a problem: they way a keyboard communicates with a computer using the standard USB HID standard (or for that matter, PS/2) is to report the scan codes of the keys which have been pressed or released — so, for example, a keyboard can report that "shift" was pressed, "2" pressed, then "2" released (actually, the scan codes for "shift" and "2" not the key mapping) — but depending on keyboard layout shift+2 may mean " or may mean @ (or maybe something else).

Working higher up the chain with whatever software the OS uses to map scan codes to characters doesn't have this problem, and additionally allows characters not usually found on keyboards (€, —, →, ∋, α, ζ, ≥, ί, ... : a small sample of what is on my keyboard).

This is true, the character itself isn't mapped, just the scan code. However, Where a character code would normally require something like Shift+2, the mapping on the board can be set so that is still a single keypress and it does the combo for you (macros basically).

[clickclack123]

While this sort of thing is definitely managable with software, I'm happy that the board will support this sort of thing on board, especially since it will not only allow it to be layer specific but also not require software for those situations where you can't install something (gov/school/military etc.)

Good idea, but I hate how limited this ends up (e.g. alternative bindings for things like @, *, (, { require simulating pressing shift — and they still won't work right for many people because a lot of non-US layouts move these characters around). May still be the best option for many people though.

I also rely heavily on a numeric keypad. Will there be a matching, equally programmable keypad to go with it? Or is there an existing project that covers that base?

I use the right side of my ErgoDox as a a numpad, and it works great (also means I can get F-keys on the Ergo). Have a look here (you'll need key binding software): https://github.com/dhardy/keyboard/blob/master/cyborg16#L50

I have an ergodox running the TMK firmware, and it is really ridiculously programmable. I feel that I can really set it up to do almost anything that you can think of. The only real problem is remembering what you set it to do!

I have one of the thumbkeys set as a layer switcher, so while holding that, the right hand becomes a numpad. If you tap the same thumbkey twice, it will lock onto the numpad layer. If you can touchtype on a numpad, it's perfect.

[QuadGMoto]

So some interesting news this morning. A friend of mine who is sponsoring the Seattle Mini Maker Faire has offered me space in his rather large booth to show off a couple of working prototypes. The goal is to have everything done by March 17th so that I have time to have everything shipped down ahead of me. That leaves me with 47 days to finish the electronics, get the firmware running, and get a case designed and 3D printed. Thankfully, I should have help with all these things, so those of you in the Seattle area should come down to the Seattle Mini Maker Faire on the weekend of March 22nd and see all my hard work

That's this weekend already! I hope it goes well, AcidFire! 

[hoggy]

That's gone quick!  Good luck with getting it ready and hope it goes well!

 

[EvillePanda]

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Ditto.  I just saw this thanks to daerid.  Gimme!

[router.exe]

So some interesting news this morning. A friend of mine who is sponsoring the Seattle Mini Maker Faire has offered me space in his rather large booth to show off a couple of working prototypes. The goal is to have everything done by March 17th so that I have time to have everything shipped down ahead of me. That leaves me with 47 days to finish the electronics, get the firmware running, and get a case designed and 3D printed. Thankfully, I should have help with all these things, so those of you in the Seattle area should come down to the Seattle Mini Maker Faire on the weekend of March 22nd and see all my hard work

what booth will you be at? i'm planning on going to the faire on sunday.

[hoggy]

Router, could you please take some photos, and maybe buy him a beer?

[router.exe]

if i can find AcidFire 

[bearcat]

I'll also be there saturday afternoon -- maybe i'll also be able to buy him a beer! 

[blackisthenewblack]

Acidfire has been posting some epic pictures on his facebook lately.  I am so stoked for this.

[Pacifist]

Acidfire has been posting some epic pictures on his facebook lately.  I am so stoked for this.

link?

[bearcat]

I saw him, he's real!  Very friendly too

And he's rocking a sweet new logo and name -- something about some big company (moogle?  foogle?) had some other product named Nexus...  Really looking forward to his next update!

[clickclack123]

Acidfire has been posting some epic pictures on his facebook lately.  I am so stoked for this.

link?

I'm keen to see the epic pictures as well!

I saw him, he's real!  Very friendly too

And he's rocking a sweet new logo and name -- something about some big company (moogle?  foogle?) had some other product named Nexus...  Really looking forward to his next update!

Did you take any pics?

[wasabah]

Acidfire has been posting some epic pictures on his facebook lately.  I am so stoked for this.

Can you link the profile?

[oystein.krog]

On http://makerfaireseattle.com/tag/openbeam/ I found:

The Axios is an Open Source ergonomic keyboard featuring modular components and a design to better match the hand’s natural resting position reducing strain in both the wrists and fingers. The Axios is user programmable as well, allowing a near infinite number of layouts to be stored on the board itself and requiring no special drivers. It’s modular nature allows for a wide degree of adjustability and customization giving the user more control over their comfort and laser etched backlit keys let the user make it their own.

Excited to hear more

I also found https://www.facebook.com/multiplxd but there is no info there.

[blackisthenewblack]

I will check and see if he is cool sharing his facebook, but here is one of the pics.

[tups]

Nothing about injection-molded cases yet then.

[BlueByLiquid]

Hmm, I though the board with both sides stuck together was going to have all the keys rotated not just the thumb keys

[Neebio]

I will check and see if he is cool sharing his facebook, but here is one of the pics.

That keyboard looks delightfully cheerful, as if it's holding its little keycap fingers over its little keyboard mouth, giggling uncontrollably.

[router.exe]

Hmm, I though the board with both sides stuck together was going to have all the keys rotated not just the thumb keys

there were also these varieties on the table.

[router.exe]

Nothing about injection-molded cases yet then.

nothing in production yet.  i talked him for a bit, and injection molding is the route he's going to take in the near future.

[AcidFire]

Time for a long overdue update!

Seattle was absolutely amazing, it was awesome to meet those of you who came out! Of the 150 some cards I brought with info to hand out, I left the event with 15, which was way better than I was expecting

As BearCat & Router mentioned, the project has a new name. I know I swore up and down that Nexus was where it was staying, but unfortunately it was pointed out to me that Google's TM on Nexus covers not only mobile devices, but peripherals as well and that's one sleeping bear I don't want to poke. So in discussions with a friend of mine about a possible rename she suggested Axiom, which I took to but with research came across the Axiom keyboards from M-Audio. Wanting to work the Open Source into the name the m became an S, and thus the project was rechristened Axios.



My setup at the Seattle Mini MakerFaire:


These were the last of the laser cut prototypes, I'm now hard at work on the 3d printed/injection molded prototypes, with the aim to have fully functional prototypes ready for the Bay Area MakerFaire.

The other major update to the project pertains to the bluetooth/wireless options. Without giving away too much, there is now a possibility of wireless charging.

Project's official webpage:
http://axios.io/
You can find my page on facebook here:
https://www.facebook.com/multiplxd
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/multiplxd
and my personal facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/ac1df1re (Please mention you're from geekhack in the message)

[QuadGMoto]

It's great to see that it went well! 

I do have a question though. You had mentioned moving to TECK style arrow keys, but the bottom row where the arrow keys (or function keys) doesn't seem to be in a plus or inverted-T layout. Is that the final layout? Can I request a plus or inverted-T layout for those keys?

Thanks, and looks good!

Hopefully Axios is enough different from Axiom that it could survive a trademark challenge. I'm no expert in that area, but I think one letter difference may not be enough. What if you went with something like Aksios, or Maxios, or Mechos, or Mekos? (Modular Ergonomic Keyboards Open Source)

[AcidFire]

It's great to see that it went well! 

I do have a question though. You had mentioned moving to TECK style arrow keys, but the bottom row where the arrow keys (or function keys) doesn't seem to be in a plus or inverted-T layout. Is that the final layout? Can I request a plus or inverted-T layout for those keys?

Thanks, and looks good!

Hopefully Axios is enough different from Axiom that it could survive a trademark challenge. I'm no expert in that area, but I think one letter difference may not be enough. What if you went with something like Aksios, or Maxios, or Mechos, or Mekos? (Modular Ergonomic Keyboards Open Source)

To be honest I completely spaced on that concept, but that would actually help with a change I was looking to make with the connector headers for the thumb clusters. I'll have to take a look at the board layout to see what I can do but it's definitely something I want to explore.

As for Axios it's actually a greek word as well as I've come to discover. I've also see IT companies with both Axios & Axiom who seem to be operating without going after each other, so I'm not overly concerned at this point, especially since the M-Audio is a musical board, not meant for PC input.

[metalliqaz]

wow nice spread.

[Pacifist]

gimme already

[clickclack123]

Nice. I really like the look of the hinged, tented transparent 'Dox.

I've never used a tented board so I'm unsure if I'd like it in reality though.

[kittykatmax]

Tented boards allowsyou to hold your hands/wrists in a more neutral position.  I think once you try it, you'll hate flat keyboards.

[EvillePanda]

Hmm, I though the board with both sides stuck together was going to have all the keys rotated not just the thumb keys

there were also these varieties on the table.

Is it weird I want to find a way to put a trackball mouse in between the keys?

[clickclack123]

Hmm, I though the board with both sides stuck together was going to have all the keys rotated not just the thumb keys

there were also these varieties on the table.

Is it weird I want to find a way to put a trackball mouse in between the keys?

I'm weird as well then... I think there's a lot of people around who want to add pointing devices to their 'Doxes.

[AcidFire]

Who said that isn't in the cards?

[EvillePanda]

Who said that isn't in the cards?

Awesome.

[fisofo]

I can't remember if I've asked this before, and it probably wouldn't be relevant if there is not going to be an aluminum case option, but what do you think of having an ESD circuit to protect the USB? I ask because, well, I've had some trouble with my ergodox in this area 

[kittykatmax]

Ok....would it be feasible to buy the DCS keycaps from the Toxic group buy to pimp out my Nexus (sorry, Axios!), and if so, which sets would I need?  Any major cons to trying to do this?  I have two QFR keyboards, so I have cherry mx keyboards to use at least some of the keys in the meantime and I just fricken LOVE the color scheme!

Toxic Group Buy:  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55644.0

UPDATE: Read through some older posts on the thread.  AcidFire, are you still planning to offer back-lit keycaps?  If that's the case, I'd use those over the Toxic keycaps, and just get a set for my QFR. 

[AcidFire]

Ok....would it be feasible to buy the DCS keycaps from the Toxic group buy to pimp out my Nexus (sorry, Axios!), and if so, which sets would I need?  Any major cons to trying to do this?  I have two QFR keyboards, so I have cherry mx keyboards to use at least some of the keys in the meantime and I just fricken LOVE the color scheme!

Toxic Group Buy:  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55644.0

UPDATE: Read through some older posts on the thread.  AcidFire, are you still planning to offer back-lit keycaps?  If that's the case, I'd use those over the Toxic keycaps, and just get a set for my QFR. 

Yup, thats still the plan.

I'm not sure if I've mentioned it before, but I've been working on something pretty exciting on the keycap side. There is still some evaluation that needs to be done in both software and equipment, but there is a strong possibility that you'll be able to order a custom etched set (using a template file) for a $20 premium. This number may change a bit, but I'm trying to keep it as low as possible. The blanks will come in at roughly $40, meaning I should be able to offer a complete custom set for around $60.

I can't remember if I've asked this before, and it probably wouldn't be relevant if there is not going to be an aluminum case option, but what do you think of having an ESD circuit to protect the USB? I ask because, well, I've had some trouble with my ergodox in this area 

I do have plans to do limited runs of aluminum cases, but they'll be a secondary/premium offer as I haven't looked to see how the new designs will need to change to accommodate that.

The plates however, I plan to machine out of aluminum (similar to stuff from Corsair) for all the kits and so ESD is on the block for the next round of electronics protection.


Speaking of keycaps, I'm currently looking at swapping the 2x/1x/1x on the big thumb clusters to 1.5x/1.5x/1x to make the secondary row more functional/easier to strike. The other upshot of this cost, in two parts.
1) I'm now only ordering two key types instead of three, increasing the number of 1.5x and bringing down their cost with higher volume.
2) This move eliminates the need for stabs that while not expensive, still helps to reduce the cost of the unit (and is also one less part to source)

It also means that someone who is moving from the flat design to the tented/angled design have fewer unique keycaps to purchase.

[metalliqaz]

So these are based on Teensy like the ergodox?

[QuadGMoto]

… there is a strong possibility that you'll be able to order a custom etched set (using a template file) …

I've been leaning strongly towards using a modified version of Programmer Dvorak with one of these. So you're saying that I would be able to order keycaps with exactly the right labels to match that custom layout? Awesome!

Are custom fonts (as outlines) and colors possible?

[AcidFire]

So these are based on Teensy like the ergodox?

No, these are my custom design.

… there is a strong possibility that you'll be able to order a custom etched set (using a template file) …

I've been leaning strongly towards using a modified version of Programmer Dvorak with one of these. So you're saying that I would be able to order keycaps with exactly the right labels to match that custom layout? Awesome!

Are custom fonts (as outlines) and colors possible?

Font yes color no. Atleast not for the lettering/etching. I've got feelers out currently for what I can get ahold of for different color vinyl dyes (paint).

[dsmitify]

Hello AcidFire.

Will this keyboard/firmware support time-based keys: https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/issues/37 ?
The firmware will be open source?

[eviltobz]

Speaking of keycaps, I'm currently looking at swapping the 2x/1x/1x on the big thumb clusters to 1.5x/1.5x/1x to make the secondary row more functional/easier to strike. The other upshot of this cost, in two parts.
1) I'm now only ordering two key types instead of three, increasing the number of 1.5x and bringing down their cost with higher volume.

this sounds like you're just planning a dsa type, everything-is-the-same-profile, kinda key. i got my dox with dsas from the first massdrop run, and i tend to feel that a more profiled set would feel nicer with the otherwise flat board. also, on my kinesis, 1 of the thumb keys on each cluster have a flat top, whilst the other is angled, which i think helps to locate your thumbs to the home position in the same way as homing bumps do. just things to think about in a cost vs value stylee.

[AcidFire]

Hello AcidFire.

Will this keyboard/firmware support time-based keys: https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/issues/37 ?
The firmware will be open source?

Absolutely the firmware will be open source. While time-based keys aren't currently high on my list of priorities for the firmware, I'm not going to rule them out either once the rest of the major functionality is finished and polished up. For me, it's not just as simple as adding it to the firmware, as the functionality would need to be added to the desktop configuration software as well. That isn't going to stop (nor would I want it to) the intrepid hackers who are planning to mod the source anyways, so I'm sure if I can't get to it right away someone else will.

Speaking of keycaps, I'm currently looking at swapping the 2x/1x/1x on the big thumb clusters to 1.5x/1.5x/1x to make the secondary row more functional/easier to strike. The other upshot of this cost, in two parts.
1) I'm now only ordering two key types instead of three, increasing the number of 1.5x and bringing down their cost with higher volume.

this sounds like you're just planning a dsa type, everything-is-the-same-profile, kinda key. i got my dox with dsas from the first massdrop run, and i tend to feel that a more profiled set would feel nicer with the otherwise flat board. also, on my kinesis, 1 of the thumb keys on each cluster have a flat top, whilst the other is angled, which i think helps to locate your thumbs to the home position in the same way as homing bumps do. just things to think about in a cost vs value stylee.

Right now I'm looking at both DSA & DCS profiles. The DCS may start as all row 3 or 4, simply to keep costs down, however if funding provides I'll definitely go with a fully contoured set.

[clickclack123]

Hello AcidFire.

Will this keyboard/firmware support time-based keys: https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/issues/37 ?
The firmware will be open source?

Absolutely the firmware will be open source. While time-based keys aren't currently high on my list of priorities for the firmware, I'm not going to rule them out either once the rest of the major functionality is finished and polished up. For me, it's not just as simple as adding it to the firmware, as the functionality would need to be added to the desktop configuration software as well. That isn't going to stop (nor would I want it to) the intrepid hackers who are planning to mod the source anyways, so I'm sure if I can't get to it right away someone else will.

I bet someone will port Hasu's TMK firmware (which supports this and media keys and lots more besides) to this really soon.

[jloomb]

i see MD doing another dox drop........ but i really like where the axios is heading...... with MD dox taking several months to ship, should I wait for axios?? anyone else facing this decision?
I shouldnt worry, prob going to waiting in my keycaps for few months anyway. But want all the things now!

[kittykatmax]

i see MD doing another dox drop........ but i really like where the axios is heading...... with MD dox taking several months to ship, should I wait for axios?? anyone else facing this decision?
I shouldnt worry, prob going to waiting in my keycaps for few months anyway. But want all the things now!

I agree waiting is painful (in my case, also literally, thanks to my crummy hands) but it will be worth it, so I'm waiting for the Axios.  The angled thumb cluster alone will make it ergonomically superior to the Ergodox in terms of supporting a more neutral hand (thumb) position.  Unless you have large hands, the thumb clusters on the Ergodox are difficult to comfortably access according to user accounts.  Awkward thumb clusters seem to rather defeat the purpose/benefits of having them.  I originally almost got an ErgoDox when MassDrop was having a buy that included an assembly option, but passed; while it IS a superior design compared to what's currently out there, I have small hands even for a woman, so there's no way it would have worked for me.   YMMV, but just my two cents!

P.S.  If you go with the Axios and it's going to be your main board, you also might want to pass on buying keycaps for a bit, since AcidFire is apparently working on something awesome.

[AcidFire]

i see MD doing another dox drop........ but i really like where the axios is heading...... with MD dox taking several months to ship, should I wait for axios?? anyone else facing this decision?
I shouldnt worry, prob going to waiting in my keycaps for few months anyway. But want all the things now!

i see MD doing another dox drop........ but i really like where the axios is heading...... with MD dox taking several months to ship, should I wait for axios?? anyone else facing this decision?
I shouldnt worry, prob going to waiting in my keycaps for few months anyway. But want all the things now!

I agree waiting is painful (in my case, also literally, thanks to my crummy hands) but it will be worth it, so I'm waiting for the Axios.  The angled thumb cluster alone will make it ergonomically superior to the Ergodox in terms of supporting a more neutral hand (thumb) position.  Unless you have large hands, the thumb clusters on the Ergodox are difficult to comfortably access according to user accounts.  Awkward thumb clusters seem to rather defeat the purpose/benefits of having them.  I originally almost got an ErgoDox when MassDrop was having a buy that included an assembly option, but passed; while it IS a superior design compared to what's currently out there, I have small hands even for a woman, so there's no way it would have worked for me.   YMMV, but just my two cents!

P.S.  If you go with the Axios and it's going to be your main board, you also might want to pass on buying keycaps for a bit, since AcidFire is apparently working on something awesome.

Kitty definitely nailed it on the head there are some really cool things coming for the keycaps (I have a demo booked for next week).

Also, while I've taken the beta sign up down, anyone who would like email updates and first notice when the Crowd Supply campaign is available can sign up at http://axios.io/signup.php. If you've already signed up for the beta you're already included on that list.

[QuadGMoto]

i see MD doing another dox drop........ but i really like where the axios is heading...... with MD dox taking several months to ship, should I wait for axios?? anyone else facing this decision?
I shouldnt worry, prob going to waiting in my keycaps for few months anyway. But want all the things now!

The Ergodox is off the table for me for a bunch of reasons. They're flat (tented is better), the Axios thumb cluster placement is far superior, AcidFire is planning real arrow/page key clusters, and the Ergodox doesn't have real F-keys which I need. (AcidFire mentioned having appropriate case space for them, though I didn't see them in the Maker Fair pictures.)

I was using a Microsoft Natural up until a month ago when I couldn't take it any more. Now I'm using a TECK, which will be able to keep me happy until the Axios is ready.

[jloomb]

yeah Im going to wait. i want tented. but preferably diy asap ha. all ready signed onto the list. my keys already on order. but im happy with that choice.

edit: props on the awesome work AcidFire, keep it up!

[sordna]

Any fully split keyboard can be tented.

[xman]

i see MD doing another dox drop........ but i really like where the axios is heading...... with MD dox taking several months to ship, should I wait for axios?? anyone else facing this decision?
I shouldnt worry, prob going to waiting in my keycaps for few months anyway. But want all the things now!

The Ergodox is off the table for me for a bunch of reasons. They're flat (tented is better), the Axios thumb cluster placement is far superior, AcidFire is planning real arrow/page key clusters, and the Ergodox doesn't have real F-keys which I need. (AcidFire mentioned having appropriate case space for them, though I didn't see them in the Maker Fair pictures.)

I was using a Microsoft Natural up until a month ago when I couldn't take it any more. Now I'm using a TECK, which will be able to keep me happy until the Axios is ready.

Yeah, real F-keys, I need them also.

[tups]

F-keys on the ErgoDox work fine: make what would be the number keys f-keys (in two blocks of six). Use a modifier key to turn the right half into a numpad for the numbers. Not saying the Axios won't be better though. Didn't like the TECK personally: too few thumb keys and the halves not angled enough.

Speaking of keycaps, I'm currently looking at swapping the 2x/1x/1x on the big thumb clusters to 1.5x/1.5x/1x to make the secondary row more functional/easier to strike. The other upshot of this cost, in two parts.
1) I'm now only ordering two key types instead of three, increasing the number of 1.5x and bringing down their cost with higher volume.
2) This move eliminates the need for stabs that while not expensive, still helps to reduce the cost of the unit (and is also one less part to source)

I never understood the point of multiple rows for the thumb clusters. On the ErgoDox I can reach the two big 2x1 keys fine and the two 1x1 side keys okay (mapped as up/down and pg up/down), but I just can't reach the top 1x1 keys. I'm happy with that, but maybe your design is better?