Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:01:52
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r2-main.png)
I've admittedly gone a little crazy (in a fun way) with this project. Firstly, I had to teach myself machining and metal finishing (I machined the first prototype myself on a manual Bridgeport mill), and then 3D CAD, and then how to work with prototyping shops, and then how to work with manufacturers to organize production runs. To my slight embarrassment and horror (now that I am writing this and look back on it), I've now gone through thousands of dollars making four iterative one-off prototypes and about a year of work, but I'm really very happy with the design at which I've arrived. The better (later) prototypes have been purchased by GeekHack members through the Classifieds, and I have been so encouraged by their very positive feedback on receiving the cases and have heard from so many people who are also interested that I have decided to try to maybe organize a larger group buy.
I thought I would document the design process here, explain the decisions I made and why, and then I wanted to solicit feedback from the community and see what kind of interest there might be.
Massdrop are very interested in organizing an initial buy, so at this point I think I'm likely to offer these through MassDrop, but I'm open to feedback on that as well.
Design
I have designed a well to hold the plate, with alignment pins to help when screwing the top and bottom together with socket-cap screws.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r2-plate.png)
An additional feature added in subsequent versions (not shown above) are flange-head screws that cinch the plate against the bottom half of the case, allowing firm and precise tweaking of where the plate sits in the case and then a positive lock between the parts. This is especially in case there are significant tolerance variations between keyboards now or in future from CoolerMaster, causing the plates to be slightly different sizes. You can see the hole and recess for the flange screws in this photo of a later prototype.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r3-flange.png)
Exterior corners have a nice chamfer to break the hard edge.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r2-corner.png)
(It may look like the top and bottom don't precisely align here, but that's just because I took this photo without the case fully assembled.)
The USB bracket screws into tapped holes and on the outside of the case sits flush with the face of a recess that has been made to the precise connector specs given in the USB standard.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r2-usb-bracket.png)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r2-usb.png)
Two feet options are provided. Firstly, my preferred (and the more generally recognized to be ergonomic) totally flat, using very low-profile bumpons to keep the overall case profile as slim as possible.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r3-foot.png)
Secondly, if I do a larger run of these, I'll include the option for riser feet, which will allow raising the case to the same angle as a Novatouch with its flip-up feet deployed (11 degrees).
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r3-riser.png)
I originally included a logo (what used to be my GeekHack avatar), but I have removed that for the production run.
Feedback please :)
Would you buy something like this? Any requests for improvements?
I know many folks might like different colors, but anodizing is crazy expensive, and every additional color doubles the anodizing cost for the group buy. I figured black was the safest bet.
Made in the USA
I am leaning towards production in the USA, because I believe it'll ensure a shorter lead time and (possibly) higher quality compared to sourcing in China, even if being more expensive. I have nothing against working with China vendors—all of my prototypes were made in Shenzhen—I just think it makes less sense for very small production runs compared to thousands of parts. It also means lower risk for everyone involved, much less complicated logistics and shipping costs, etc. I'm also a stickler for quality and want to make a high-end "luxury" sort of keyboard mod product if I do this, and I believe that working with a local vendor will help me with quality control.
My goal would to have these ready to ship within two months of money being received from buyers in any group buy. Assuming I go with a US shop, I think that is a realistic timeline. If we go with a vendor in Asia, we have to worry about sea freight, customs clearance, and all that, which always introduces greater risk for delays.
Cost and time
Because I'm sure someone will ask, I don't yet know the final price. But custom, short-run CNC machining and finishing aren't cheap, so let's pessimistically assume $250 if only a few people join the buy, but I think even with USA manufacture that we can probably do better than that (or much better if the numbers are strong). Of course, it's all depending on what options I end up going with and what numbers we're able to generate—hence this IC thread!
I look forward to hearing your thoughts, my fellow Topre nerds! :)
Post by: Bromono on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:04:40
Post by: exitfire401 on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:10:30
Post by: agbockus on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:12:05
Great job!
Post by: nickheller on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:12:07
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:12:52
Would defiantly be down for one!
Awesome! :)
Those legs though look really long. Is that a standard profile height of a typical tkl?
It looks high to me in the rendering as well--and it's more than possible that I made some kind of error in modeling it--but when I deploy the flip-up feet on the Novatouch IRL I measure the angle of the face against the table as 11 degrees. This measurement on my design is 11 degrees as well.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r3-riser-angle.png)
I haven't yet physically prototyped the feet yet, but in a few weeks I should be able to examine a case in person with the feet attached and will be able to catch any errors in my assumptions then.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:14:10
If it can happen for under $300, I'll be in 100%.
Awesome. Assuming even a relatively very small number of people sign up, I'm confident can do much better than $300 while still keeping manufacture in the USA.
Post by: sethbc on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:33:36
Post by: Bromono on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:35:44
Post by: keshley on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:36:07
Post by: LechnerDE on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:38:04
This really shows in your current design. I love how clean it is!
~250$ plus shipping is also very reasonable.
The only thing that sucks for me is Massdrop. As a European this means another ~50$ for custom fees because there will be an official invoice :(
Post by: Zorberema on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:41:03
Post by: LechnerDE on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:46:11
I like this a lot! Just as exitfire said, this would be and excelent reason to finally get a novatouch, haha! Will this case fit on the rapid-i as well? I know their cases are 100% similar on the outside, not so sure about the inside though.
Yes, they should be compatible.
See this thread for example:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73393.0
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:47:27
I was part of your very first galaxy class GB and I was very impressed with your sense for details and perfection.
This really shows in your current design. I love how clean it is!
~250$ plus shipping is also very reasonable.
The only thing that sucks for me is Massdrop. As a European this means another ~50$ for custom fees because there will be an official invoice :(
Thanks, LechnerDE. I really appreciated all your encouragement on Galaxy Class!
Part of the reason I would go with MassDrop is actually international shipping, believe it or not. When a member approached me about buying one of my prior prototypes who was in Europe, all the tracked shipping options I could find were like $80 or more. MassDrop has relationships with international couriers who can do better, I believe. I know it would mean perhaps some VAT for EU buyers, but the shipping savings over what I could do personally would probably be significant. Also, if it's anything more than like 20 orders, it would take me forever to ship personally. MassDrop could facilitate shipping everything all at once.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:49:26
I like this a lot! Just as exitfire said, this would be and excelent reason to finally get a novatouch, haha! Will this case fit on the rapid-i as well? I know their cases are 100% similar on the outside, not so sure about the inside though.
Hmm. I'm actually not familiar with the rapid-i. Is there anywhere where I can see a photo of the plate? That would help me be able to answer.
Post by: Vittra on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:51:17
Post by: whmeltonjr on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:56:02
You should do a Realforce case though. :thumb:
Post by: Lepidus on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:01:12
I like this a lot! Just as exitfire said, this would be and excelent reason to finally get a novatouch, haha! Will this case fit on the rapid-i as well? I know their cases are 100% similar on the outside, not so sure about the inside though.
Hmm. I'm actually not familiar with the rapid-i. Is there anywhere where I can see a photo of the plate? That would help me be able to answer.
Here some pics.
Post by: axtran on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:01:28
Post by: LechnerDE on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:04:43
I was part of your very first galaxy class GB and I was very impressed with your sense for details and perfection.
This really shows in your current design. I love how clean it is!
~250$ plus shipping is also very reasonable.
The only thing that sucks for me is Massdrop. As a European this means another ~50$ for custom fees because there will be an official invoice :(
Thanks, LechnerDE. I really appreciated all your encouragement on Galaxy Class!
Part of the reason I would go with MassDrop is actually international shipping, believe it or not. When a member approached me about buying one of my prior prototypes who was in Europe, all the tracked shipping options I could find were like $80 or more. MassDrop has relationships with international couriers who can do better, I believe. I know it would mean perhaps some VAT for EU buyers, but the shipping savings over what I could do personally would probably be significant. Also, if it's anything more than like 20 orders, it would take me forever to ship personally. MassDrop could facilitate shipping everything all at once.
Yeah, it probably evens out. I never really thought about it this way. I hope I have enough spare money once this drop hits!
Also,
it would be great if you did a Phantom case next :D
Post by: Butter on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:11:55
Post by: K on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:15:05
Post by: r5d on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:43:10
I guess I need a Novatouch now.
Post by: bbrotha on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:45:12
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 15:10:39
Never had a custom case, do they change the sound of the kb at all? Also when would this start running as a poor student i'd need to start planning for this in my spendings :(
I feel that it does change the sound a bit, but for me it's mostly about visual aesthetics.
Here is a video of me typing on an early prototype of this case:
Post by: techmattr on Mon, 07 March 2016, 15:14:43
Post by: ramnes on Mon, 07 March 2016, 15:24:27
Black anodizing is what I would choose, but since people want more choices, maybe you could make three options for colors?
- Black anodizing
- Powder coating for any other color
- Bare metal
Speaking of bare metal, do you have a picture of the keyboard before anodizing?
Post by: TheVengeance on Mon, 07 March 2016, 16:16:25
Put me down for one.
Post by: exitfire401 on Mon, 07 March 2016, 16:44:55
Post by: manofinterests on Mon, 07 March 2016, 16:47:31
Post by: WNovizar on Mon, 07 March 2016, 16:57:14
Post by: ChemicalHalo on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:15:00
Post by: s3vv4 on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:19:48
Post by: TheOneOutlander on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:24:33
EDIT: Didn't notice your mention of MassDrop. Looking forward to updates!
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:30:39
For those asking about using this case with other keyboards than the Novatouch, I have to say that I'm skeptical. The Novatouch has a very particular USB bracket and a weird plate with bent "struts." I had to do a lot of experimentation to figure out a design that would support it, and I doubt that other boards would fit. If anybody wants to provide me with photos and/or specs, however, I'm happy to confirm. The only exception I can tell would be the Rapid-i because it's actually made by CoolerMaster and appears to use an identical USB bracket and plate. However, not having one in my physical possession, I can't say with absolute certainty.
UPDATE: I just ordered a rapid-i and will report on whether it fits!
Post by: exitfire401 on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:34:50
I'm very encouraged to hear all these positive remarks. Please keep your thoughts coming, everybody, and feel free to vote for an second/alternate color (though I can't promise we'll be able to afford one).
For those asking about using this case with other keyboards than the Novatouch, I have to say that I'm skeptical. The Novatouch has a very particular USB bracket and a weird plate with bent "struts." I had to do a lot of experimentation to figure out a design that would support it, and I doubt that other boards would fit. If anybody wants to provide me with photos and/or specs, however, I'm happy to confirm. The only exception I can tell would be the Rapid-i because it's actually made by CoolerMaster and appears to use an identical USB bracket and plate. However, not having one in my physical possession, I can't say with absolute certainty.
UPDATE: I just ordered a rapid-i and will report on whether it fits!
Would you like a poll for the color option added to the thread? Would only take me a minute or two.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:37:36
Would you like a poll for the color option added to the thread? Would only take me a minute or two.
That would be awesome! Thanks, exitfire401. :)
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:56:22
Am I imagining things? Do the modifiers really sound like buckling spring keyboard switches?Never had a custom case, do they change the sound of the kb at all? Also when would this start running as a poor student i'd need to start planning for this in my spendings :(
I feel that it does change the sound a bit, but for me it's mostly about visual aesthetics.
Here is a video of me typing on an early prototype of this case:
I can't say that I'm in, no Nova Touch to speak of at the moment but this project is very promising :thumb:
Post by: Heliosphere on Mon, 07 March 2016, 18:11:31
Post by: romevi on Mon, 07 March 2016, 18:17:31
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 18:31:15
Man, if 45g Topre wasn't so light for me I'd be all over this.
You can always buy a heavier Realforce and swap out the domes! :) I've done it before (though for lighter in my case) and it's pretty easy.
Post by: romevi on Mon, 07 March 2016, 18:33:26
Man, if 45g Topre wasn't so light for me I'd be all over this.
You can always buy a heavier Realforce and swap out the domes! :) I've done it before (though for lighter in my case) and it's pretty easy.
And just like that, I'm on board.
Totally forgot about that. Have a Realforce 55g, but I can see myself getting a Novatouch for this case and swapping out the domes.
Post by: toidbb on Mon, 07 March 2016, 18:36:22
Post by: sircheddar on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:27:09
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:45:29
Post by: raymogi on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:46:51
Post by: exitfire401 on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:49:19
If you have suggestions for other colors, quote this comment and I will add them tomorrow. I just put the ones I thought would be the most popular up for now. You get 2 choices which leaves enough room for a clear winner and a backup color in the case that something wins that wouldn't normally be feasible.
Post by: man on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:18:15
Also, +1 to Massdrop. Much more likely to drop several hundred dollars there.
Post by: Parod on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:21:41
Post by: SteampunkCatfish on Mon, 07 March 2016, 22:47:32
Post by: terminallytrill on Mon, 07 March 2016, 22:56:53
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 23:01:25
Alright, Poll is up.
If you have suggestions for other colors, quote this comment and I will add them tomorrow. I just put the ones I thought would be the most popular up for now. You get 2 choices which leaves enough room for a clear winner and a backup color in the case that something wins that wouldn't normally be feasible.
Thanks! I'd love to see white and red added as well. :)
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 March 2016, 23:03:41
Interested but it would be great if the angle with feet was a bit lower - maybe 9 degrees?
I thought about maybe adding a second option for lower feet. Without the flip-down feet, the inherent slope of the Novatouch is 4 degrees. Mine is 0 degrees. With the feet up, it's 11 degrees. I was thinking of adding a 4 degree set of feet.
Post by: exitfire401 on Mon, 07 March 2016, 23:33:18
AddedAlright, Poll is up.
If you have suggestions for other colors, quote this comment and I will add them tomorrow. I just put the ones I thought would be the most popular up for now. You get 2 choices which leaves enough room for a clear winner and a backup color in the case that something wins that wouldn't normally be feasible.
Thanks! I'd love to see white and red added as well. :)
Post by: chamelemon_64 on Mon, 07 March 2016, 23:59:27
Post by: K on Tue, 08 March 2016, 01:59:25
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 08 March 2016, 02:38:57
Would you be able to give a really rough estimate of when this would drop? Bcs if it's soon i'd have to drop outta 1976, gotta stay in budget. Really interested in this, hyped to try my first custom case. :)
I'd pessimistically guess 4-6 weeks from now, but perhaps earlier if things go smoothly. The machine shop is working on a final sample using what would become the production tooling, along with sample riser feet.
Post by: Zorberema on Tue, 08 March 2016, 03:38:05
Alright, Poll is up.
If you have suggestions for other colors, quote this comment and I will add them tomorrow. I just put the ones I thought would be the most popular up for now. You get 2 choices which leaves enough room for a clear winner and a backup color in the case that something wins that wouldn't normally be feasible.
Thanks! I'd love to see white and red added as well. :)
White got my vote! I'd love a white aluminum case for my carbon board; as of now I just have it sprayed with white paint :(
Post by: r5d on Tue, 08 March 2016, 04:57:07
Post by: fan-fcking-tastic on Tue, 08 March 2016, 04:58:21
The rapid-i top case is the same as the novatouch, not sure about the bottom though...
White got my vote! I'd love a white aluminum case for my carbon board; as of now I just have it sprayed with white paint :(
I am thinking about jumping on the Round 2 of carbon and would be interested to see how the set looks with a white case.
Any chance you got some pictures floating around?
Or maybe someone else has colored their cases too? Might help some guys with lack of immagination like myself.
Post by: Thumper_ on Tue, 08 March 2016, 05:25:24
How heavy it is?
Post by: apolotary on Tue, 08 March 2016, 05:42:36
Post by: r5d on Tue, 08 March 2016, 05:52:48
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 08 March 2016, 06:05:35
I'm in as long as it's in sub-$200 price range (which is probably not that possible sadly, but a man can dream!)
I'm in for 2x if it hits sub-$200.
Post by: Kirfloof on Tue, 08 March 2016, 06:31:50
Other thoughts:
Black is probably a given, but wouldn't be my first choice. Nantucket is heading to mine, and black doesn't seem a good fit there. I had been planning to vinyl wrap or do something with a hammer finish paint, but this would certainly be neater. Is it strange I like the look without the top half in place?
Wondering how a perspex layer would look on there...
I went for purple as the 'out there' choice and a neutral grey for a catch-all.
How prone are these alum cases to showing marks/fingerprints? I have to use cotton gloves when working on one of my alum pc cases as it's just bare metal. One of the reasons I'm wanting to switch case or mod it up is the easily marked soft touch finish. My very sloppy typing keeps leaving pinkie marks below the delete key >:D
Post by: keshley on Tue, 08 March 2016, 07:04:25
I believe the QFR fits in the Vortex and Tex TKL alloy cases. I have one of the Vortex cases. The NT doesn't fit, it's plate is too wide, by several millimeters on both top and bottom. So likely, the QFR's plate will be too narrow. The NT is also a mm or two wider. Another issue I had trying to get it to fit: the Function row would rub slightly when the rest of the keys were positioned correctly. The NT might be a mm or so different in spacing.
Edit: For reference, NT PCB inside Vortex case just fits. The PCB actually scrapes the sides fitting into it. NT plate overhangs the PCB noticeably.
(http://i.imgur.com/ceLxGn7.jpg)
Post by: TheNacho on Tue, 08 March 2016, 07:17:40
Post by: keshley on Tue, 08 March 2016, 07:26:26
Post by: redskull on Tue, 08 March 2016, 07:36:56
will you be coming up with future different designs? angled case with a thinner side walls?
Post by: zah on Tue, 08 March 2016, 09:35:52
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 08 March 2016, 11:13:06
I'm in as long as it's in sub-$200 price range (which is probably not that possible sadly, but a man can dream!)
Given the level of interest I've seen so far, this is more likely than one might think. :) I have been very encouraged by the early response to this thread, and I'm working actively with MassDrop to figure out how to get these to everyone in as efficient and affordable a way as possible while still having really high quality. Please keep the thoughts and feedback coming and I'll provide updates and answers along thew way.
Thanks also everyone for continuing to vote on the colors. Please keep it up! So far, it looks like black/dark gray are the overwhelming majority, so it's mainly a question of whether we can do a secondary color without adding to much cost for creating a second anodizing lot. It's not entirely clear to me whether someone who voted for dark gray would not also be OK with black (and vice versa). Any thoughts? Bear in mind that each color we add significantly adds to the overall price of each unit across all colors due to the way anodizing providers in the US charge for lots.
good job norbauer! we need more casings for mech kbds already in the market such as those duckys, filcos, etc.
will you be coming up with future different designs? angled case with a thinner side walls?
Thanks! I'm not sure about other designs given how much work went into this one, but we'll see how this drop goes. I'm really enjoying learning how all this stuff works (CAD, machining, and prototyping are a lot of fun!), but it's a lot of work, far out of proportion to any amount of money I'll ever make back from the drop. The main reason I made this case was because I wanted it for myself. So if I design something else, it'll be for the same reason. :)
FWIW, I have one of the older prototypes, and it has made the NT my favorite board to type on.
Thanks, keshley! I really appreciated your support and encouragement along with the very kind words of others who got prototypes; if it weren't for these positive responses, I wouldn't have continued to pursue doing a group buy.
How heavy it is?
2 pounds and 13 oz (~1.3kg) without the optional riser feet.
Post by: LechnerDE on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:16:27
I think I have never seen a white alu board before :D
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:20:03
I think it would look better if the bezels (particularly the side bezels) were more thin. By the looks of the casing it seems like this would be achievable.
I think a smaller chamfer would look good for the edges - something around 0.5mm 45deg.
I would recommend that you offer some feet even for the first group buy. A lot of people dislike flat keyboards. I also think 11deg is too much for most people - 9deg would be a good compromise.
Also, it looks like you've done so already but I would make sure you make the case as slimline as possible. 2cm height max at the front.
Great project. Good luck.
Post by: drpatrickbateman on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:04:11
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:10:33
At 250, I'm not sure but if price can be made to be around 150 or so I'm definitely interested.It's not realistic to aim for $150 at a low quantity. CNC machining is not cheap.
Post by: drpatrickbateman on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:57:51
Yeah, I can understand that. If quantities are high enough to push prices down in that ballpark, I'd be interested, especially if it were a massdrop run or something. I can understand that this kind of machining is not cheap, though.At 250, I'm not sure but if price can be made to be around 150 or so I'm definitely interested.It's not realistic to aim for $150 at a low quantity. CNC machining is not cheap.
Post by: fax668 on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:16:37
Post by: honeynugget on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:28:17
Post by: bubbedi on Wed, 09 March 2016, 06:06:36
Post by: amharris on Wed, 09 March 2016, 07:00:03
Congrats! :thumb:
Though I do feel that you should provide some feet that only have a fair tilt for those that don't want such a heavy incline as 11 degrees. Offering both would be good; 7 or 8 degrees, perhaps. :)
Cheers.
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 09 March 2016, 13:39:39
7 or 8 degrees, perhaps. :)
I would recommend that you offer some feet even for the first group buy. A lot of people dislike flat keyboards. I also think 11deg is too much for most people - 9deg would be a good compromise.
Thanks for all the great advice and feedback, everyone! I wanted first to respond to the foot height issue on the optional riser. I think this is good advice and I'll go for somewhere between the native keyboard incline and the incline of the Novatouch with its flip-up feet deployed. I have opted for 8 degrees.
Here is the new design. The angle between the keyboard face and the orange line is 8 degrees.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-shorter-riser.png)
Post by: MechanicalCafe on Wed, 09 March 2016, 14:52:07
Post by: bubbedi on Wed, 09 March 2016, 15:24:08
Thanks also everyone for continuing to vote on the colors. Please keep it up! So far, it looks like black/dark gray are the overwhelming majority, so it's mainly a question of whether we can do a secondary color without adding to much cost for creating a second anodizing lot. It's not entirely clear to me whether someone who voted for dark gray would not also be OK with black (and vice versa). Any thoughts? Bear in mind that each color we add significantly adds to the overall price of each unit across all colors due to the way anodizing providers in the US charge for lots.
I voted for Black/Dark Grey. So I would actually like the end result to be either one of those (since both versions sounds "safe") - along with an opportunity of a more "colorful" alternative! :)
Post by: fan-fcking-tastic on Thu, 10 March 2016, 13:34:47
Another case color option might be a "nude" version without anodizing - no idea how it looks though/ if someone might be interested in that/ it is possible.
Do you have any more pictures or details regarding the plate positioning and plate securement at the bottom-case? If I understand it correctly the plate is only fixed with a weld at the sides of the bottom case, while the plate in the original case is fixed directly at the bottom. Doesn´t that impact the feel because the plate bends a bit?
Keep up the great work!
Post by: Jedi on Fri, 11 March 2016, 06:31:29
Post by: Xiro7 on Fri, 11 March 2016, 06:35:20
Post by: breitling on Fri, 11 March 2016, 11:27:26
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 14 March 2016, 04:45:48
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-rapid-i.png)
(This photo also shows the flange screw, which tensions the plate into place against the case body.)
Post by: Zorberema on Mon, 14 March 2016, 04:50:02
I'm delighted to report that the Rapid-i also fits perfectly in the case. So now a backlit Cherry MX board is an option with this case as well! :DShow Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-rapid-i.png)
(This photo also shows the flange screw, which tensions the plate into place against the case body.)
Awesome! I'll definitelly get one for my Rapid-i if it's made in white :)
Post by: atectatifern on Mon, 14 March 2016, 05:46:01
Post by: quasistellar on Mon, 14 March 2016, 11:29:06
Heck I just had mine apart but I didn't really pay attention to whether there was excess space in the bottom of the case that could be shaved.
Post by: LechnerDE on Mon, 14 March 2016, 11:41:16
I'm delighted to report that the Rapid-i also fits perfectly in the case. So now a backlit Cherry MX board is an option with this case as well! :DShow Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-rapid-i.png)
(This photo also shows the flange screw, which tensions the plate into place against the case body.)
Nice!
Now my only problem is to decide whether to use my Novatouch or my Rapid-I.
I'll probably have to buy two cases in true Wallethack fashion now :p
I really hope WHITE will be an option!
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 14 March 2016, 11:49:57
Nice!
Now my only problem is to decide whether to use my Novatouch or my Rapid-I.
I'll probably have to buy two cases in true Wallethack fashion now :p
I really hope WHITE will be an option!
Get two black cases for the Novatouch (in case the first one gets scratched or dented).
Then, get another two white cases for the Rapid-i. Job done.
*In all seriousness, that's what I'd probably end up doing
Post by: Butter on Mon, 14 March 2016, 12:02:54
I'm delighted to report that the Rapid-i also fits perfectly in the case. So now a backlit Cherry MX board is an option with this case as well! :DShow Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-rapid-i.png)
(This photo also shows the flange screw, which tensions the plate into place against the case body.)
It will be nice if the new masterkeys pro S use the same case as the rapid-i. aluminum RGB keyboard!!
Post by: axtran on Mon, 14 March 2016, 23:13:44
Post by: axtran on Tue, 15 March 2016, 21:32:41
(http://i.imgur.com/fPRoxWc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GgMzWYy.jpg)
Post by: romevi on Tue, 15 March 2016, 21:58:54
Post by: Metaldrake on Tue, 15 March 2016, 22:01:20
Post by: WNovizar on Wed, 16 March 2016, 01:24:33
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 16 March 2016, 02:11:36
and it looks better if you make a natural angle case instead of using feet
just my opinion
Post by: WNovizar on Wed, 16 March 2016, 02:28:43
I have to say that the bezel is too thick
and it looks better if you make a natural angle case instead of using feet
just my opinion
Pretty sure that is a prototype, the bezel should be thinner by now. Milling cases to be angled may increase manufacturing cost
Post by: JaccoW on Wed, 16 March 2016, 02:52:21
It will push it up to the $300+ mark easily.I have to say that the bezel is too thick
and it looks better if you make a natural angle case instead of using feet
just my opinion
Pretty sure that is a prototype, the bezel should be thinner by now. Milling cases to be angled may increase manufacturing cost
Interested in a grey or purple case. :D
Guess I will need to start looking for a Novatouch soon.
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 16 March 2016, 14:20:03
With the release of the MasterKeys Pro S, I've been told that it has the same case as the Rapid-i and Novatouch. If anyone has possession of it, can you confirm? If so then I'll have to go for 2 of these sweet cases.
Based on the image of the plate shown here (http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/keyboards/masterkeys-pro-s/), I would guess that it'll most likely fit. If anybody has one they'd care to lend me, I'd be happy to test it and send it back (I'll pay shipping both ways and send you a pre-paid UPS label).
I have to say that the bezel is too thick
and it looks better if you make a natural angle case instead of using feet
I decided to opt for symmetry around all edges rather than a thin bezel on the sides like the stock case has. (In the current design the bezel edge is equally spaced from neighboring keys around all sides.) It's just a subjective aesthetic call, but to me it looks more satisfying. I also like having a place for my pinkie finger to rest while using the arrow keys.
Regarding the natural angle, I agree with you that if everybody wanted an angled slope to their keys, that would be cleanest way to go. But this solution permits satisfying the largest range of users. In my view, GeekHack group buys are all about making mods to keyboards that normal manufacturers won't support because they're too niche or fringe, so I thought it important to give people the option for a dead flat board (especially since that's the option I both personally prefer and find to be best for RSI) while allowing those who prefer a slope to add riser feet. Design is always about trade-offs and compromises, for better or worse. :)
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 16 March 2016, 14:42:09
Color. Given that people seems interested in some color options, I am thinking offering a second color even though it affects the financial calculations non-trivially. Namely, I'm thinking of offering black and white, a nice simple and iconic duo of colors. Black is obviously the understated more "tactical"/gamer/utility aesthetic, which should hopefully appeal to the folks who voted for things like gray, dark gray, silver, etc. (together this group has by far comprised the majority of votes). White is an interesting second option that feels a bit more individualistic, and more arty/pretty. It'll obviously be a minority choice, but I hope it'll appeal to people who wanted somethign a bit more unusual. Hopefully regardless of one's ideal choice, black and white would provide at least one option that most people could be happy to choose. I would love to be able to offer a whole range of interesting colors (mint green is still a personal favorite!), but I just don't think it's economically feasible given the anodizing dye lot minimums available here in the US. If I knew we were going to sell hundreds of these things (unlikely) it would be different, but as it is, not knowing the order quantities beforehand, it's hard to work out the economics of how many colors to offer without turning people off by having really high prices at the lower tiers.
Barebones I am working with MassDrop to try to have a simultaneous drop for bare-bones Novatouch boards, for those who don't have them yet. Though it looks like this case will fit multiple CM boards.
Post by: JaccoW on Wed, 16 March 2016, 15:01:11
There might be people willing to pay that sort of money if the shop is willing to offer it.
Post by: Butter on Wed, 16 March 2016, 17:36:55
With the release of the MasterKeys Pro S, I've been told that it has the same case as the Rapid-i and Novatouch. If anyone has possession of it, can you confirm? If so then I'll have to go for 2 of these sweet cases.
Based on the image of the plate shown here (http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/keyboards/masterkeys-pro-s/), I would guess that it'll most likely fit. If anybody has one they'd care to lend me, I'd be happy to test it and send it back (I'll pay shipping both ways and send you a pre-paid UPS label).I have to say that the bezel is too thick
and it looks better if you make a natural angle case instead of using feet
I decided to opt for symmetry around all edges rather than a thin bezel on the sides like the stock case has. (In the current design the bezel edge is equally spaced from neighboring keys around all sides.) It's just a subjective aesthetic call, but to me it looks more satisfying. I also like having a place for my pinkie finger to rest while using the arrow keys.
Regarding the natural angle, I agree with you that if everybody wanted an angled slope to their keys, that would be cleanest way to go. But this solution permits satisfying the largest range of users. In my view, GeekHack group buys are all about making mods to keyboards that normal manufacturers won't support because they're too niche or fringe, so I thought it important to give people the option for a dead flat board (especially since that's the option I both personally prefer and find to be best for RSI) while allowing those who prefer a slope to add riser feet. Design is always about trade-offs and compromises, for better or worse. :)
From a post on Reddit. The masterkey won't fit this case :'(
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5 (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5)
Post by: JaccoW on Wed, 16 March 2016, 18:17:23
From a post on Reddit. The masterkey won't fit this case :'(That's not what it says. ;)
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5 (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5)
Quote from: CM_Glenn
They look and feel the same, however, they are not identical. The MasterKeys Pro S has a more sturdy housing.It might still have the same plate and fit in this case. I guess we won't know until Norbauer gets his hands on a Masterkey.
Post by: Butter on Wed, 16 March 2016, 19:21:14
From a post on Reddit. The masterkey won't fit this case :'(That's not what it says. ;)
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5 (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5)Quote from: CM_GlennThey look and feel the same, however, they are not identical. The MasterKeys Pro S has a more sturdy housing.It might still have the same plate and fit in this case. I guess we won't know until Norbauer gets his hands on a Masterkey.
livingspeedbump said:
Yeah it probably wont fit. From taking them both apart the S and the Novatouch do not have screws in the same places, etc. The reason why TKL Aluminum cases for retail boards aren't a huge thing right now is for this very reason. Unlike 60% keyboards, there is no real universal rhyme or reason to where the screws, USB output, etc, etc are and each case basically fits 1, maybe 2 keyboards tops.
Sorry I have no idea how to quote from Reddit. I hope I am wrong because I really want a RGB board with aluminum case.
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 17 March 2016, 01:27:13
From a post on Reddit. The masterkey won't fit this case :'(
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5 (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5)
This is not necessarily conclusive, as I don't rely on any of the screw or post locations but rather support the plate by the curved struts. The struts are incidental to the design but they actually serve this purpose very well and don't rely on screw positions or any of those details. It also makes the case much cheaper to machine doing it this way. I may just have to order a Masterkeys to find out if it fits—unless somebody wants to volunteer to loan me one for 24 hours?
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 17 March 2016, 01:33:30
What kind of price are we looking at here for anodizing a single board in a non-standard color? $200? $300?
There might be people willing to pay that sort of money if the shop is willing to offer it.
Yes, the anodizing dye lot minimum ranges between $250 and $500 at most places in the US. If the initial drop is successful and there are still people who couldn't manage to bring themselves to cozy up to black or white, we can look into doing a small order for niche colors at a higher price maybe directly as a GeekHack group buy. But that kind of thing doesn't really fit the MassDrop model very well, and I'd like to get that out of the way first. Powder coating is cheaper for multiple colors because it has lower minimums, incidentally, but I think people seem to prefer anodizing.
Of course, if orders through MassDrop are very strong, we could do a second round in more or different colors, but I wouldn't want to commit to that for a first run. The logistics and expense of organizing all this have been pretty daunting as it is. :)
Post by: JaccoW on Thu, 17 March 2016, 03:20:28
That's understandable and I respect that. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread anyway.What kind of price are we looking at here for anodizing a single board in a non-standard color? $200? $300?
There might be people willing to pay that sort of money if the shop is willing to offer it.
Yes, the anodizing dye lot minimum ranges between $250 and $500 at most places in the US. If the initial drop is successful and there are still people who couldn't manage to bring themselves to cozy up to black or white, we can look into doing a small order for niche colors at a higher price maybe directly as a GeekHack group buy. But that kind of thing doesn't really fit the MassDrop model very well, and I'd like to get that out of the way first. Powder coating is cheaper for multiple colors because it has lower minimums, incidentally, but I think people seem to prefer anodizing.
Of course, if orders through MassDrop are very strong, we could do a second round in more or different colors, but I wouldn't want to commit to that for a first run. The logistics and expense of organizing all this have been pretty daunting as it is. :)
Purple does seem to be a very good non-standard option though judging by the numbers. ;)
Post by: fan-fcking-tastic on Thu, 17 March 2016, 03:57:55
Maybe you could ask livingspeedbump or coolermaster directly (they seem to support the DIY spirit) to send you the board. The color choice seems fine, I mean we need those economies of scale effects badly ;).
Post by: Butter on Thu, 17 March 2016, 08:14:58
From a post on Reddit. The masterkey won't fit this case :'(
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5 (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4aiw57/masterkeys_pro_l_and_s_mega_thread/d10swr5)
This is not necessarily conclusive, as I don't rely on any of the screw or post locations but rather support the plate by the curved struts. The struts are incidental to the design but they actually serve this purpose very well and don't rely on screw positions or any of those details. It also makes the case much cheaper to machine doing it this way. I may just have to order a Masterkeys to find out if it fits—unless somebody wants to volunteer to loan me one for 24 hours?
What a roller coaster ride. I guess I'll be getting 2 case then as long as they are around $250. :D
Post by: phinix on Thu, 17 March 2016, 09:53:42
http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c1/800x600px-LL-c19eadf9_382332020_image_179.jpeg
Post by: fan-fcking-tastic on Thu, 17 March 2016, 10:11:08
Would this fit the old QFR?
http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c1/800x600px-LL-c19eadf9_382332020_image_179.jpeg
No. The the old version is different. The best pictures I could find : https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/CM+Storm+QuickFire+Rapid+LED+Light+Replacement/32216
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 17 March 2016, 13:24:10
Would this fit the old QFR?
http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c1/800x600px-LL-c19eadf9_382332020_image_179.jpeg
No. The the old version is different. The best pictures I could find : https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/CM+Storm+QuickFire+Rapid+LED+Light+Replacement/32216
Agreed. The old QFR would require a differently designed case. Jury is still out on Masterkeys.
Post by: NiceAndCreamy on Thu, 17 March 2016, 13:31:36
Post by: odd on Thu, 17 March 2016, 20:58:10
Post by: avtar on Sat, 19 March 2016, 01:09:58
Post by: henz on Sat, 19 March 2016, 11:45:59
Post by: xondat on Sat, 19 March 2016, 17:37:59
Any time frame when this will happen?
I'd love to know this, might get a Novatouch if this is soon.
Post by: ArnavM on Sat, 19 March 2016, 21:24:22
Post by: henz on Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:24:04
Any time frame when this will happen?
I'd love to know this, might get a Novatouch if this is soon.
After reading the thread I saw 4-6 weeks from 8th, so 3-5 now? =)
Post by: Razer1987 on Sun, 20 March 2016, 13:47:16
I would love some color (red, blue or purple) but It seems that people are more conservative...
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 20 March 2016, 19:46:05
My target is to get a drop happening around the middle of next month (i.e., mid-April). That'll probably run for a week or so and then it'll be a 1-2 month lead time after that until it's on people's doorsteps, depending how many people join the drop (larger numbers will take longer to fulfill, though we can perhaps fulfill them in batches based on who orders first, though anodizing may be the bottleneck there). Everything could theoretically be shorter, as those are pessimistic timelines, but unforeseen delays always seem to happen in manufacturing, so I'm trying to be realistic. ;)
Post by: avtar on Sun, 20 March 2016, 20:07:57
Post by: whmeltonjr on Sun, 20 March 2016, 22:12:07
Post by: axtran on Mon, 21 March 2016, 07:37:12
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 22 March 2016, 04:58:58
Is the plan still to run through Massdrop?
Yes. I have worked out all the details with them, and they continue to impress me. Having them do all the payment processing and shipping make this much more feasible than my handling all that myself, and it'll mean everyone will get their stuff much faster.
Good luck with the GB, norbauer! If the production runs are anything like the prototype, everyone is in for a treat. :D Best Topre board!
Thanks again, axtran, for all your support. I really appreciate it. :)
Post by: keshley on Tue, 22 March 2016, 06:54:00
Post by: r5d on Tue, 22 March 2016, 10:01:53
Post by: henz on Tue, 22 March 2016, 10:04:01
I have since bought a CM Novatouch just for this case! Can't wait!!
same :D
Post by: fax668 on Wed, 23 March 2016, 11:59:04
Post by: RichieRo on Wed, 23 March 2016, 20:10:57
Post by: Funderwood on Fri, 25 March 2016, 01:54:34
Have to say the slab-o-uniform look you have going is starting to grow on me. I was not a fan of the thicker bezels at first but now I feel its got some serious retro charm. Which leads me to ask:
Any pictures with a contoured SA Keyset?
Although I voted white, beige with krinkle finish is this case design's true calling. IMHO
Post by: rondg on Fri, 25 March 2016, 04:14:43
Post by: ramnes on Fri, 25 March 2016, 09:56:20
Yes. I have worked out all the details with them, and they continue to impress me. Having them do all the payment processing and shipping make this much more feasible than my handling all that myself, and it'll mean everyone will get their stuff much faster.
But that also means import taxes for us, non US citizens. :'(
Post by: derzemel on Fri, 25 March 2016, 11:12:35
Yes. I have worked out all the details with them, and they continue to impress me. Having them do all the payment processing and shipping make this much more feasible than my handling all that myself, and it'll mean everyone will get their stuff much faster.
But that also means import taxes for us, non US citizens. :'(
damn, this doesn't sound so good anymore :(
Post by: JaccoW on Fri, 25 March 2016, 11:18:44
Agreed, but that is always a risk when buying stuff from the USA. They're legally required to declare the official value. And not much slips through anymore. Especially more expensive or larger items.Yes. I have worked out all the details with them, and they continue to impress me. Having them do all the payment processing and shipping make this much more feasible than my handling all that myself, and it'll mean everyone will get their stuff much faster.
But that also means import taxes for us, non US citizens. :'(
Post by: Metaldrake on Sat, 26 March 2016, 02:17:33
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Sun, 27 March 2016, 12:43:51
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 28 March 2016, 16:39:51
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-machining-r1.jpg)
Don't worry about the tooling marks, btw. These parts get bead blasted for a uniform finish before being sent off for anodizing—totally normal for this kind of machining.
Post by: henz on Tue, 29 March 2016, 08:44:50
Post by: Olumin on Wed, 30 March 2016, 14:36:42
In my opinion, you should wait until enough people join in, so you can get the price down to something more reasonable.
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 30 March 2016, 14:38:30
the price down to about 100.Maybe if you get them cast in the deepest, darkest, lowest quality depths of the far East :))
Post by: Olumin on Wed, 30 March 2016, 14:49:28
the price down to about 100.Maybe if you get them cast in the deepest, darkest, lowest quality depths of the far East :))
The fact that they are "made in USA" does not increase the quality and only adds additional cost, manufacturing then in china is completely sufficing and a lot cheaper. Tho I understand the reason why one would not do that. Also, I am not expert, I have no idea about these things, that's just my opinion, don't mind me.
I also removed that last statement, It may have been unrealistic, like I said, I don't know anything about that.
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 30 March 2016, 14:51:47
The fact that they are "made in USA" does not increase the quality and only adds additional cost, manufacture then in chine is completely sufficing and a lot cheaper. Tho I understand the reason why one would not do that. Also, I am not expert, I have no idea about these things, that's just my opinion, don't mind me.Well, it doesn't necessarily increase quality but it often does. Also, do note that I said "Maybe if you get them cast...". You wouldn't be able to get these CNC milled from metal at quantities of a few hundred and be able to sell them at $100 each; not even in China.
Post by: Olumin on Wed, 30 March 2016, 14:54:59
The fact that they are "made in USA" does not increase the quality and only adds additional cost, manufacture then in chine is completely sufficing and a lot cheaper. Tho I understand the reason why one would not do that. Also, I am not expert, I have no idea about these things, that's just my opinion, don't mind me.Well, it doesn't necessarily increase quality but it often does. Also, do note that I said "Maybe if you get them cast...". You wouldn't be able to get these CNC milled from billet at quantities of a few hundred and be able to sell them at $100 each; not even in China.
You are probably right abut that, like I have written in my previous answer, I removed my last statement about the 100 dollar. But still, 250 to 300 is simply too much in my opinion, That just means that I wouldn't spend it, you may.
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 30 March 2016, 15:25:29
TBH, the main reason for doing it in the US is to decrease complexity and logistics and increase accountability. When I say quality will be better, I'm not literally saying that CNC machines clear chips better on this side of the Pacific. My point is that it's easier for me to communicate with the machine shop in the US and whine to them when things aren't right--or sue them if they screw us over. The first pre-production sample on Monday, for example, had a few issues, which they are currently fixing for me. It has already been much easier to iron those issues out than when I've had similar problems with China suppliers on other (non-keyboard-related) manufacturing projects I've done in the past.
But anyway, USA manufacturing on a project like this is not that much more expensive, honestly. Believe me, I've been working on this design and gotten prototypes made both in the US and China and even machined one myself. I hired a China sourcing consultant to help me explore the possibilities of get it made there, including a cast version with post-process machining. It's not that I haven't considered all the options but that I simply decided, for reasons outlined above, that the current approach is best for a project of this scale (and unit weight) where most of the customers will be in the US and where we want it to be top quality. Courier shipping from China on a heavy item like is fantastically expensive (almost enough to offset the manufacturing cost difference), and sea freight doesn't make sense because of all the handling fees and potential import duties on such a small volume order where we're not filling up half a cargo container. I'm open to revision of these views if I were to find a cheap supplier in China with excellent communication, good accountability, and incredibly cheap shipping on small volume orders like ours will be, but after lots of looking I didn't find anything that quite met my requirements in that regard.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 30 March 2016, 15:31:14
Would this fit the old QFR?
http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c1/800x600px-LL-c19eadf9_382332020_image_179.jpeg
No. The the old version is different. The best pictures I could find : https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/CM+Storm+QuickFire+Rapid+LED+Light+Replacement/32216
Agreed. The old QFR would require a differently designed case. Jury is still out on Masterkeys.
Well, that sucks, as the Frosty Flake only works on that one, and if I spent this much on a case, I'd want the keyboard programmable. Ah well...
Post by: JaccoW on Wed, 30 March 2016, 17:40:15
[...]If the price would be below 150 dollars[...]It's no use to compare this case to the prices one would pay for something like an aluminum Poker case (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=630).
This is a two-part case. The nature of CNC means that the more pieces/edges a product has, the more expensive it gets. It's essentially two Poker cases on top of eachother as far as the machine shop is concerned.
It's also similar to a Korean Custom, so expect similar prices. It's not unheard of to have a case like that which is $250-300 on its own.
For a perfect example take a look at Orion V2 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70864.0) ($151 for the top, $137 for the bottom), Orion V1 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55523.0) ($400 for the set), the Weaven 60% (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78422.0) ($230 at the lowest tier) or TGR Jane (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76964.0) ($420 for case, plate, pcb).
Hell, even a relatively "simple" lasercut layered case is more than $150.
Monarch (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.0) ($250 for the kit).
Is it a lot of money? Sure.
But is it too expensive for what you get? No.
Just because I want a <Insert high-end sports car> but cannot afford it doesn't mean it is too expensive. It just means I shouldn't be getting in debt trying to buy one.
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 31 March 2016, 22:51:18
Post by: romevi on Thu, 31 March 2016, 23:54:43
OK, so the keyboards that fit in this are the Novatouch and Rapid-i. I ordered and had a closer look at the innards of a Masterkeys, and while it is very close, its PCB sits under the bent metal struts of the plate, unlike the other two keyboards mentioned, so it's not quite the same design. I'm assuming the same will apply to the TKL version when it's released.
I've since added a Novatouch to my list of boards that are a priority. I cannot wait to get this, as I suspect the Novatouch will be my regular work keyboard now, thanks to this. :))
Post by: r5d on Fri, 01 April 2016, 06:18:39
OK, so the keyboards that fit in this are the Novatouch and Rapid-i. I ordered and had a closer look at the innards of a Masterkeys, and while it is very close, its PCB sits under the bent metal struts of the plate, unlike the other two keyboards mentioned, so it's not quite the same design. I'm assuming the same will apply to the TKL version when it's released.
I've since added a Novatouch to my list of boards that are a priority. I cannot wait to get this, as I suspect the Novatouch will be my regular work keyboard now, thanks to this. :))
I recently sold a 55g Topre because I thought Topre wasn't for me at all, but after getting a secondhand Novatouch just for this case I am starting to love the feeling!! Which in turn makes me ever more excited about the upcoming case! The Novatouch is now my work keyboard as well.
Post by: Our_Benefactors on Fri, 01 April 2016, 23:14:51
Post by: Phenix on Sat, 02 April 2016, 06:52:35
Post by: JaccoW on Sat, 02 April 2016, 10:49:33
maybe I would take one, but only if around 150$.Read my previous post.
Post by: avtar on Sat, 02 April 2016, 14:53:43
maybe I would take one, but only if around 150$.
In that case you're probably better off getting a (somewhat) mass-produced case and modding it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/33hq1i/modification_novatouch_aluminum_case_mod/
Post by: Butter on Mon, 04 April 2016, 18:21:55
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 05 April 2016, 01:07:07
Are we still on time for mid April drop? Just want to know so I can put the money aside. Thank you :)
Likewise. The info would help a lot with my planning.
Post by: WNovizar on Tue, 05 April 2016, 01:41:38
Are we still on time for mid April drop? Just want to know so I can put the money aside. Thank you :)
Likewise. The info would help a lot with my planning.
+1. Need to budget my keyboard spending this month.....luckily, there should be no more GMK drop this month....
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 05 April 2016, 11:13:53
Are we still on time for mid April drop? Just want to know so I can put the money aside. Thank you :)
Thanks for your support and encouragement! :)
I now think it's more likely to be closer to the end of April. I had the manufacturer re-make the first pre-production sample due to a problem in the CNC program negatively affecting the surface finish on the interior of the case--nothing major, but I want the pre-production sample (which we'll use for the MassDrop photos) to be as perfect and as close to the final product as possible. This has meant their having to order more stock and re-cut the work piece, which is in fact happening today. Then it gets sent off for anodizing, with a stated lead time of up to two weeks. I'll then get it off to MassDrop ASAP for listing.
So a slight delay but nothing serious. My goal is to favor taking time to work such issues out now before the actual orders are placed rather than having to worry about sorting out QC issues, etc., while scrambling to fulfill orders. Once the CNC program and post-process finishing steps are all worked out, it should just be a question of executing on those when the drop is complete. This will be far less stressful for me having these issues all worked out up front, even at the cost of a slight delay to when the drop begins. I hope everyone else agrees that it's the correct strategy. :)
Post by: r5d on Tue, 05 April 2016, 16:15:08
Post by: Butter on Tue, 05 April 2016, 16:36:05
Are we still on time for mid April drop? Just want to know so I can put the money aside. Thank you :)
Thanks for your support and encouragement! :)
I now think it's more likely to be closer to the end of April. I had the manufacturer re-make the first pre-production sample due to a problem in the CNC program negatively affecting the surface finish on the interior of the case--nothing major, but I want the pre-production sample (which we'll use for the MassDrop photos) to be as perfect and as close to the final product as possible. This has meant their having to order more stock and re-cut the work piece, which is in fact happening today. Then it gets sent off for anodizing, with a stated lead time of up to two weeks. I'll then get it off to MassDrop ASAP for listing.
So a slight delay but nothing serious. My goal is to favor taking time to work such issues out now before the actual orders are placed rather than having to worry about sorting out QC issues, etc., while scrambling to fulfill orders. Once the CNC program and post-process finishing steps are all worked out, it should just be a question of executing on those when the drop is complete. This will be far less stressful for me having these issues all worked out up front, even at the cost of a slight delay to when the drop begins. I hope everyone else agrees that it's the correct strategy. :)
Got it thank for the update. I rather you get it right the first time then having many delay during the manufacturing process. I guess I'll be eating dust this month then :D
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Tue, 05 April 2016, 16:43:15
Post by: Metaldrake on Wed, 06 April 2016, 05:55:21
Are we still on time for mid April drop? Just want to know so I can put the money aside. Thank you :)
Thanks for your support and encouragement! :)
I now think it's more likely to be closer to the end of April. I had the manufacturer re-make the first pre-production sample due to a problem in the CNC program negatively affecting the surface finish on the interior of the case--nothing major, but I want the pre-production sample (which we'll use for the MassDrop photos) to be as perfect and as close to the final product as possible. This has meant their having to order more stock and re-cut the work piece, which is in fact happening today. Then it gets sent off for anodizing, with a stated lead time of up to two weeks. I'll then get it off to MassDrop ASAP for listing.
So a slight delay but nothing serious. My goal is to favor taking time to work such issues out now before the actual orders are placed rather than having to worry about sorting out QC issues, etc., while scrambling to fulfill orders. Once the CNC program and post-process finishing steps are all worked out, it should just be a question of executing on those when the drop is complete. This will be far less stressful for me having these issues all worked out up front, even at the cost of a slight delay to when the drop begins. I hope everyone else agrees that it's the correct strategy. :)
Does that mean you'll be able to test out the MasterKeys Pro S to know for sure if it fits?
Post by: Lipton on Wed, 06 April 2016, 13:52:11
I also have on order the Honeywell Space Cadet keycap set from DeskAuthority:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/1f/88/bf/1f88bf0fa8fa39c34768566b69007ea3.jpg)
Would look amazing with an aluminum case :)
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 07 April 2016, 19:50:46
Does that mean you'll be able to test out the MasterKeys Pro S to know for sure if it fits?
Based on my observations of the PCB on its full-size big brother, I believe that the Masterkeys will not fit this case. Though if this drop goes well, perhaps I'll design a case for those too eventually. :) It would only require a few minor modifications.
Post by: aggiejy on Sat, 09 April 2016, 21:41:28
Post by: venyv on Mon, 11 April 2016, 13:55:31
Post by: romevi on Mon, 11 April 2016, 14:00:29
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Mon, 11 April 2016, 18:05:16
Post by: fublamchu on Tue, 12 April 2016, 12:33:39
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 13 April 2016, 04:24:55
And also: Do other pcbs/keyboards like the Phantom or the CM Storm Quickfire Rapid (so the old version) fit into the case?
off-topic:
Is it possible to make a IBM SSK metal case?
Post by: Metaldrake on Wed, 13 April 2016, 08:04:23
Doesn't work with the QFR unfortunately, it has a different case design than the Novatouch / Rapid-i
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 13 April 2016, 08:21:35
Post by: henz on Wed, 13 April 2016, 09:24:54
Post by: carmenohio on Wed, 13 April 2016, 19:56:24
Does that mean you'll be able to test out the MasterKeys Pro S to know for sure if it fits?
Based on my observations of the PCB on its full-size big brother, I believe that the Masterkeys will not fit this case. Though if this drop goes well, perhaps I'll design a case for those too eventually. :) It would only require a few minor modifications.
That's a bummer to hear your observations on the PCB. I will be purchasing a Masterkeys Pro S on release, and was really hoping to hear that this case would also fit it.
Post by: Atredl on Thu, 14 April 2016, 21:52:47
does it support phantom?
It only supports the Novatouch and Rapid-i.
Post by: Metaldrake on Fri, 15 April 2016, 02:24:48
Post by: Phenix on Fri, 15 April 2016, 07:02:17
Post by: cavilio on Fri, 15 April 2016, 10:33:22
Post by: cryptokey on Fri, 15 April 2016, 11:13:01
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 15 April 2016, 15:42:37
I'm puzzled about what to do based on the two highest vote winners being "black" and "dark gray." Does this mean that people would be happy with a choice between those two colors? They seem almost the same to me. I'd thus be inclined to go with black and "blue gray," assuming that a dark gray voter would be fine with black. What do you guys think?
Post by: henz on Fri, 15 April 2016, 15:50:45
So I just found out that white won't be possible with anodizing. While it's technically possible to anodize aluminum to nearly white, it's very expensive (for arcane technical reasons). So we need to pick a second anodizing color.
I'm puzzled about what to do based on the two highest vote winners being "black" and "dark gray." Does this mean that people would be happy with a choice between those two colors? They seem almost the same to me. I'd thus be inclined to go with black and "blue gray," assuming that a dark gray voter would be fine with black. What do you guys think?
Let the white voters vote on something else
Post by: Phenix on Fri, 15 April 2016, 15:58:02
Post by: fax668 on Fri, 15 April 2016, 15:59:10
Post by: thel on Fri, 15 April 2016, 16:01:22
Post by: exitfire401 on Fri, 15 April 2016, 16:10:46
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 15 April 2016, 16:33:44
Would it be out of line to look into a powder coater for those interested in white?
Purely as a matter of fulfillment logistics for this drop, using two finishing types won't be possible. However, perhaps powder will be an option we can offer at some other point later if the first drop is reasonably successful.
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:00:55
Post by: Butter on Fri, 15 April 2016, 17:04:25
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: avtar on Fri, 15 April 2016, 21:15:58
I'm puzzled about what to do based on the two highest vote winners being "black" and "dark gray." Does this mean that people would be happy with a choice between those two colors? They seem almost the same to me. I'd thus be inclined to go with black and "blue gray," assuming that a dark gray voter would be fine with black. What do you guys think?
[/anodized
I would prefer dark grey over black since the former would be more versatile with different keycap colours. The original Novatouch case is black so getting a different colour is more appealing to me. Being able to see pics of samples would be helpful.
Post by: aggiejy on Fri, 15 April 2016, 23:33:29
[attach=1]
Post by: norbauer on Sat, 16 April 2016, 07:20:12
Pics and more machining videos soon. :)
Post by: derzemel on Sat, 16 April 2016, 07:21:10
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Post by: SpikeBolt on Mon, 18 April 2016, 07:07:08
The thing I hate about the most on the Novatouch is its loudness and in the prototype video it seemed to increase this loudness, though I can't be sure without an actual comparison.
Thanks a lot, great feedback so far!
Post by: avtar on Mon, 18 April 2016, 08:52:40
The thing I hate about the most on the Novatouch is its loudness and in the prototype video it seemed to increase this loudness, though I can't be sure without an actual comparison.
If you want to reduce the amount of noise generated while using a Novatouch I would do the Hypershere rings mod before anything else. Someone on Reddit suggested that to me and it made a world of difference. Video for sound reference (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbYDZWlCBSc&t=1m56s).
Post by: SpikeBolt on Mon, 18 April 2016, 08:53:44
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 18 April 2016, 11:29:15
I'm considering joining this project depending on the price. When you receive the prototype would it be possible to make a sound test with the standard case and the prototype case?
Sure, I'll be happy to shoot a typing video with the pre-prod sample quickly before sending it off to MassDrop for photos. My experience with the prototype in the video you saw was that it didn't really affect the sound much either way compared to the stock case. The sound on Topre boards mostly just comes from the bottom out of the keys as the dome collapses, which is all on the front side of the PCB and largely exposed to the surface no matter what the case. If it sounded louder than the normal case, it was probably just because I amplified the audio a bit in Premiere to make the sounds audible at all.
Personally, I actually kind of like the "thocky" sounds of the Novatouch and all Topre keyboards. It is much lower pitch and thus less shrill to me compared to un-dampened MX Reds (my second favorite switch).
Post by: thel on Mon, 18 April 2016, 14:06:12
This aside, the video idea is great! - when you are on it, maybe you could show the assembly of the board?
highly appreciated.
Cheers
I'm considering joining this project depending on the price. When you receive the prototype would it be possible to make a sound test with the standard case and the prototype case?
Sure, I'll be happy to shoot a typing video with the pre-prod sample quickly before sending it off to MassDrop for photos. My experience with the prototype in the video you saw was that it didn't really affect the sound much either way compared to the stock case. The sound on Topre boards mostly just comes from the bottom out of the keys as the dome collapses, which is all on the front side of the PCB and largely exposed to the surface no matter what the case. If it sounded louder than the normal case, it was probably just because I amplified the audio a bit in Premiere to make the sounds audible at all.
Personally, I actually kind of like the "thocky" sounds of the Novatouch and all Topre keyboards. It is much lower pitch and thus less shrill to me compared to un-dampened MX Reds (my second favorite switch).
Post by: SpikeBolt on Mon, 18 April 2016, 14:44:50
I actually love the topre sound, especially the one from the my HHKB. The stabilized keys on the Novatouch, though, those are just terrible! The hypersphere rings did wonders for the alphas, they sound and feel great but the stabilized keys continue to sound way too loud. I was actually scared that the alu case made it even worse than it already is but hopefully that's not the case.I'm considering joining this project depending on the price. When you receive the prototype would it be possible to make a sound test with the standard case and the prototype case?
Sure, I'll be happy to shoot a typing video with the pre-prod sample quickly before sending it off to MassDrop for photos. My experience with the prototype in the video you saw was that it didn't really affect the sound much either way compared to the stock case. The sound on Topre boards mostly just comes from the bottom out of the keys as the dome collapses, which is all on the front side of the PCB and largely exposed to the surface no matter what the case. If it sounded louder than the normal case, it was probably just because I amplified the audio a bit in Premiere to make the sounds audible at all.
Personally, I actually kind of like the "thocky" sounds of the Novatouch and all Topre keyboards. It is much lower pitch and thus less shrill to me compared to un-dampened MX Reds (my second favorite switch).
Thanks a lot!
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 19 April 2016, 12:15:02
The stabilized keys on the Novatouch, though, those are just terrible!
Interesting. I had never considered that the different stabilizers might cause a different sound, but that makes sense. I honestly think I'm just less sensitive to minor sound variations than some of you guys. lol. So I'll just try to get some good audio of it for you.
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 19 April 2016, 12:30:26
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-pps-before-anodizing.jpeg)
Post by: SpikeBolt on Wed, 20 April 2016, 04:40:00
Post by: r5d on Wed, 20 April 2016, 05:53:46
Post by: mrkevint on Wed, 20 April 2016, 23:12:16
Here is the bead-blasted pre-production sample before it went off to anodizing. :)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-pps-before-anodizing.jpeg)
The sample looks great! Thanks for keeping us updated. What colours will the case be anodized in?
Post by: elcubismo on Thu, 21 April 2016, 12:24:50
Post by: JDragon on Thu, 21 April 2016, 16:09:29
Post by: breitling on Thu, 21 April 2016, 22:09:32
Post by: diqkiq on Fri, 22 April 2016, 14:54:43
Here is the bead-blasted pre-production sample before it went off to anodizing. :)I'd take that bead blast finish and clear coat it. Looks good!Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-pps-before-anodizing.jpeg)
Post by: diqkiq on Fri, 22 April 2016, 15:12:15
Post by: techmattr on Sat, 23 April 2016, 23:43:00
Where is the best place to get a barebones novatouch?
I'd be surprised if massdrop doesn't run a barebones novatouch drop at the same time as this.
Post by: Phenix on Sun, 24 April 2016, 05:29:08
Damn it, I need ISO :(
Post by: henz on Sun, 24 April 2016, 07:05:52
But I assume an ANSI novatouch drop.
Damn it, I need ISO :(
Cooler Master has a euro shop, you should be able to get bb nt from there
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 26 April 2016, 11:10:22
- Barring any surprises from the manufacturer, I believe that we're looking at $199.99 per case (+ shipping), assuming we hit a quantity of 50, which based on the strong Reddit and GeekHack interest seems totally plausible to me. There will be further price drops at higher volumes.
- Barebones Novatouch keyboards will be available through MassDrop at the same time as the cases.
- I'm working hard to try to provide an interesting second color option, either in anodizing or powder, hopefully with pics to show at the time of the drop. My current thinking is that the second option can be in powder so that we cover a wide range of options and finishes even though we'll only be able to offer two choices.
Also regarding finishes: the black pre-production sample came back from anodizing, but the finish had a few blemishes that weren't up to my expectations. I'm having the parts re-made and anodized again, this time by another vendor. Unfortunately, this means adding probably another week or two to the timeline (I'm waiting for specifics on a lead time). I'm with you all in wanting this drop to happen ASAP, but I'm also personally committed to getting it to come out super nice, so I'm happy to wait a bit longer to make sure process is worked out and we can be assured a really nice finish on these. After all, at least as far as I'm concerned, making something unusually nice is the whole thing that makes this project fun and worth the trouble. :) Everyone's patience is, in any case, appreciated. As I've said before, better to work all this stuff out before the orders are placed than after. ;)
Post by: ramnes on Tue, 26 April 2016, 11:17:46
Post by: r5d on Tue, 26 April 2016, 12:21:00
Hi everyone. I have some updates for us all!
- Barring any surprises from the manufacturer, I believe that we're looking at $199.99 per case (+ shipping), assuming we hit a quantity of 50, which based on the strong Reddit and GeekHack interest seems totally plausible to me. There will be further price drops at higher volumes.
- Barebones Novatouch keyboards will be available through MassDrop at the same time as the cases.
- I'm working hard to try to provide an interesting second color option, either in anodizing or powder, hopefully with pics to show at the time of the drop. My current thinking is that the second option can be in powder so that we cover a wide range of options and finishes even though we'll only be able to offer two choices.
Also regarding finishes: the black pre-production sample came back from anodizing, but the finish had a few blemishes that weren't up to my expectations. I'm having the parts re-made and anodized again, this time by another vendor. Unfortunately, this means adding probably another week or two to the timeline (I'm waiting for specifics on a lead time). I'm with you all in wanting this drop to happen ASAP, but I'm also personally committed to getting it to come out super nice, so I'm happy to wait a bit longer to make sure process is worked out and we can be assured a really nice finish on these. After all, at least as far as I'm concerned, making something unusually nice is the whole thing that makes this project fun and worth the trouble. :) Everyone's patience is, in any case, appreciated. As I've said before, better to work all this stuff out before the orders are placed than after. ;)
More time for me to save up for the two cases I will be ordering!
Post by: Butter on Tue, 26 April 2016, 12:52:38
Hi everyone. I have some updates for us all!
- Barring any surprises from the manufacturer, I believe that we're looking at $199.99 per case (+ shipping), assuming we hit a quantity of 50, which based on the strong Reddit and GeekHack interest seems totally plausible to me. There will be further price drops at higher volumes.
- Barebones Novatouch keyboards will be available through MassDrop at the same time as the cases.
- I'm working hard to try to provide an interesting second color option, either in anodizing or powder, hopefully with pics to show at the time of the drop. My current thinking is that the second option can be in powder so that we cover a wide range of options and finishes even though we'll only be able to offer two choices.
Also regarding finishes: the black pre-production sample came back from anodizing, but the finish had a few blemishes that weren't up to my expectations. I'm having the parts re-made and anodized again, this time by another vendor. Unfortunately, this means adding probably another week or two to the timeline (I'm waiting for specifics on a lead time). I'm with you all in wanting this drop to happen ASAP, but I'm also personally committed to getting it to come out super nice, so I'm happy to wait a bit longer to make sure process is worked out and we can be assured a really nice finish on these. After all, at least as far as I'm concerned, making something unusually nice is the whole thing that makes this project fun and worth the trouble. :) Everyone's patience is, in any case, appreciated. As I've said before, better to work all this stuff out before the orders are placed than after. ;)
I might be able to get VE.A and the AMJ keyboard them :D
Post by: thel on Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:55:04
Also that 2nd option with power coating seems like a great idea. keep up the good work & thanks for doing this.
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Tue, 26 April 2016, 17:42:23
Post by: ramnes on Wed, 27 April 2016, 04:42:07
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 27 April 2016, 14:06:41
Post by: guy12 on Mon, 02 May 2016, 20:30:55
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Tue, 03 May 2016, 10:33:15
Post by: exitfire401 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 11:09:36
would have loved one of those if it supported filco tkl
Mechanicalkeyboards.com has the tex cases in stock currently that fit filcos
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Tue, 03 May 2016, 15:03:12
would have loved one of those if it supported filco tkl
Mechanicalkeyboards.com has the tex cases in stock currently that fit filcos
I know. But those don't seem as well built and they do no longer feature a usb port daughterboard.
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 04 May 2016, 14:50:51
The good news is that the machine shop is now turning out the cases consistently at very high quality; the last piece of the puzzle is the finishes and colors. We're currently getting multiple sample cases finished using various methods from various finishing shops and I'll go with what turns out best! I was hoping it would be super easy and obvious and we could get away with just one sample, but in the end I think it'll be better having tried multiple methods. (The first sample that came back from the ano shop we were planning on using had a somewhat uneven finish, so I used it as an excuse to explore some more options in addition to getting a sample from a different ano shop. Currently I'm looking at ano, powder, and Duracoat.)
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Wed, 04 May 2016, 15:00:45
Hey everybody. Just a quick update. Sorry for the delay, but we've been experimenting with various finishing options that will give us the best color flexibility, durability, and cosmetic quality without having to increase the price beyond the numbers I quoted before. I hope to have photos to show by next week and a more in-depth technical explanation of the pros and cons of the various options.
The good news is that the machine shop is now turning out the cases consistently at very high quality; the last piece of the puzzle is the finishes and colors. We're currently getting multiple sample cases finished using various methods from various finishing shops and I'll go with what turns out best! I was hoping it would be super easy and obvious and we could get away with just one sample, but in the end I think it'll be better having tried multiple methods. (The first sample that came back from the ano shop we were planning on using had a somewhat uneven finish, so I used it as an excuse to explore some more options in addition to getting a sample from a different ano shop. Currently I'm looking at ano, powder, and Duracoat.)
You are thorough. I like thorough.
Thorough means you're also spending a lot of time, money and energy on this project. I hope people realize this.
Thank you for doing this right.
Post by: guy12 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 15:41:36
Post by: norbauer on Sat, 07 May 2016, 11:08:58
You are thorough. I like thorough.
Thorough means you're also spending a lot of time, money and energy on this project. I hope people realize this.
Thank you for doing this right.
Why, thank you. That means a lot. I've been a bit stressed that some details are taking longer to work out than I had hoped, so it's good to know that at least some folks don't mind the delay in favor of my being thorough. :)
I'm doing this project because I and a bunch of my keyboard friends actually want this case for ourselves, and we want it to be awesome. So, yeah, it has been crazy expensive and time-consuming, but I'm more than OK with that though if it means we get something cool in the end that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
Thanks again for your patience. Hopefully I'll have some more nailed-down details in our finishing options in this coming week. As soon as I know something solid, you guys will all know too.
Post by: Jedi on Sat, 07 May 2016, 11:21:28
I'm doing this project because I and a bunch of my keyboard friends actually want this case for ourselves, and we want it to be awesome.
We need your attention fever on a few other cases too. Have you any thoughts on working on other keyboard case projects after this one?
Post by: norbauer on Sat, 07 May 2016, 12:20:15
I'm doing this project because I and a bunch of my keyboard friends actually want this case for ourselves, and we want it to be awesome.
We need your attention fever on a few other cases too. Have you any thoughts on working on other keyboard case projects after this one?
This project has been a lot of fun so far, so yeah, I'd totally be interested in doing some other cases. However, for now I just want to focus on getting this one as perfect as can be and out the door. After that, if all goes well, I'd be delighted to tackle another such project. I've learned so much in this process that a second project would be so much easier. Seems a shame to let all that hard-won experience go to waste. ;)
Post by: Phenix on Sat, 07 May 2016, 12:26:16
Post by: need on Sat, 07 May 2016, 19:21:42
Post by: Phenix on Sat, 07 May 2016, 21:07:15
[size=85]typos due to my touch screen are possible[size]
Post by: whmeltonjr on Sat, 07 May 2016, 22:55:33
Post by: Trev on Sat, 07 May 2016, 23:03:57
It would be awesome to see a pure white option (I'm assuming powdercoat is best?). It's not something you see as often in custom keyboard builds. I'd love to try a white case with thick pure white PBT caps, or POM white caps.
Post by: JDragon on Tue, 10 May 2016, 18:40:18
Post by: Trev on Tue, 10 May 2016, 19:02:54
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Sat, 14 May 2016, 11:19:36
Post by: Auxo on Sat, 14 May 2016, 11:31:49
Post by: Z4KJ0N3S on Sun, 15 May 2016, 19:00:25
I'd like either dark gray anodized, or bare aluminum for custom anodizing. Very excited. :)
Post by: bred on Mon, 16 May 2016, 11:17:38
Thanks for your work so far!
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 16 May 2016, 21:55:43
Duracoat is still an option for the second color, but the spray shop hasn't yet given me a final quote, so we may end up going with a second anodizing color just to get this show on the road. We'll see what I can nail down by the end of the week. Basically, whatever options I can be confident of by then are the ones I'm likely to go with and then we can sort out doing something cool or weird in terms of finish (which will probably end up being more expensive) for a subsequent project. :) Someday I want a chrome-plated keyboard case. :D
Post by: Butter on Mon, 16 May 2016, 22:24:03
Slowly but surely we're making progress. The new ano shop has now made a sample in black that looks good, but I'm having them refine their process a bit more to verify that they can do so repeatably in production. I don't want to be seeing just a purely "golden sample," as it is called in industry; I want to know everybody is going to get one of similar quality and finish. So they're doing a second sample that will be ready on Wednesday and to me by Friday. I didn't figure a delay of a couple of days matters very much in the grand scheme. The upside of these delays in figuring out the finishing options is that it has given more people time to learn about the project, so hopefully we can get some higher numbers and hit a good price tier so we can all get our cases cheaper.
Duracoat is still an option for the second color, but the spray shop hasn't yet given me a final quote, so we may end up going with a second anodizing color just to get this show on the road. We'll see what I can nail down by the end of the week. Basically, whatever options I can be confident of by then are the ones I'm likely to go with and then we can sort out doing something cool or weird in terms of finish (which will probably end up being more expensive) for a subsequent project. :) Someday I want a chrome-plated keyboard case. :D
When you get a chrome plated keyboard case made count me in for one lol. :)
Post by: RexS on Mon, 16 May 2016, 23:26:19
Keep up the fantastic design work.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 16 May 2016, 23:47:10
I'm certainly interested. I swear I followed an earlier build log and your attention to detail was impressive. Did you use SolidWorks for the 3D modeling?
Keep up the fantastic design work.
Thanks!
I use Autodesk Fusion 360. I find it suits my workflow way better than SolidWorks.
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 17 May 2016, 03:51:41
The upside of these delays in figuring out the finishing options is that it has given more people time to learn about the project
and also given more time to others to squirrel the requisite funds aside ;)
Post by: Troif on Fri, 20 May 2016, 07:24:39
Post by: need on Fri, 20 May 2016, 08:02:20
Post by: kokokoy on Fri, 20 May 2016, 08:40:43
update plz.
Slowly but surely we're making progress. The new ano shop has now made a sample in black that looks good, but I'm having them refine their process a bit more to verify that they can do so repeatably in production. I don't want to be seeing just a purely "golden sample," as it is called in industry; I want to know everybody is going to get one of similar quality and finish. So they're doing a second sample that will be ready on Wednesday and to me by Friday. I didn't figure a delay of a couple of days matters very much in the grand scheme. The upside of these delays in figuring out the finishing options is that it has given more people time to learn about the project, so hopefully we can get some higher numbers and hit a good price tier so we can all get our cases cheaper.
Duracoat is still an option for the second color, but the spray shop hasn't yet given me a final quote, so we may end up going with a second anodizing color just to get this show on the road. We'll see what I can nail down by the end of the week. Basically, whatever options I can be confident of by then are the ones I'm likely to go with and then we can sort out doing something cool or weird in terms of finish (which will probably end up being more expensive) for a subsequent project. :) Someday I want a chrome-plated keyboard case. :D
Post by: need on Fri, 20 May 2016, 08:58:29
Post by: ramnes on Fri, 20 May 2016, 09:22:10
Give him time or do it yourself. :rolleyes:
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 20 May 2016, 18:08:49
Thanks, ramnes (and others)! Patience is certainly appreciated. This is just a hobby for me, but I'm keeping on top of things every day, and believe me, nobody is more frustrated by not being able to get rolling on this yet more than I am. And I don't want us to take money from anybody until all the details are totally nailed down. As I've said before, I want these things to look really nice and I don't want to put my name on a project unless we can be reasonably confident of that. For better or worse, that takes as long as it takes.
I have been doing my best to cajole vendors along, but also taking care not to alienate them with a false sense of urgency. You have to understand that for most production shops, an order of the size that ours is likely to be is kind of small potatoes. The cases may cost a lot due to materials, machine time, and labor, but the margins on this kind of thing are actually pretty low for a machine shop.
Anyway, in keeping with the timeline, we did get the second anodizing sample back from a totally new anodizing vendor this week. Very much to my horror and annoyance, however, these parts also had cosmetic imperfections that I deem unacceptable. And, apologies if this is TMI, but for whoever cares, I'll now take a deep dive into the technical and logistical issues so everybody knows exactly where things stand.
So we come again to the annoyances (and relative weaknesses) of USA vs China manufacturing. The great thing about working with shops in the US is that it's often relatively much easier to communicate, and for objects like huge honking heavy keyboard cases, the shipping is much less expensive for the majority of buyers who, for MassDrop and GeekHack, are based in North America. Working with the machine shop has been great. The head engineer and owner at the USA shop is extremely thoughtful and has suggested several key improvements to the case design and manufacturing process. He fabricated elaborate jigs so they're all set to churn these things out at consistent speed and quality in production. After a few experiments and early hiccups, they totally nailed the process. But the problem is that nobody in America seems to make consumer products anymore, so it has been really hard to find a finishing shop that is willing to guarantee a consumer-grade level of cosmetic finishing on the machined parts, whether it be ano or powder coating. Once they hear that the finish matters, these finishing shops (bafflingly) get scared off and start saying they're not willing to guarantee any level of finish, for fear of liability or losing money on rejects. It's a little nuts. Apparently, there are all sorts of industrial applications for anodized and powder coated finishes where the actual costmetic properties of the finish don't matter all that much, and most US shops tend to target those less picky customers. You can find shops that do really high-end finishes in the US, but they all would totally blow the cost of these into something that really doesn't make sense for hobbyist keyboard cases. (I myself have paid $300-400 for Korean CNC anodized cases that I love, but I'm not sure I could in good conscience offer something at that price.)
So what is wrong with the finish? There are some splotchy patches where the anodizing looks darker in some areas than in others. Through a lot of experimentation and elimination of potential culprits, we believe this to be due to impurities in the metal. We have now tried metal from two different vendors, however, and have worked with two different anodizing providers. We've washed the parts, used a new blast cabinet and medium, etc. In all cases, the same problem semi-randomly shows up. The general recommended solution to this problem is go use certified aluminum, which has a guaranteed composition and purity, but the issue there is that it's crazy expensive and again would blow the budget and target price. (When you use certified material, you're paying for all sorts of guarantees beyond material composition that don't matter in our case, such as material strength and tolerance of the raw cut part.)
Both I and the engineer at the machine shop have been very surprised that this seemingly trivial last step of the process has brought the project to a grinding halt. He has anodized many smaller parts without any cosmetic issues, but apparently large flat surfaces such as ours (which are unusual for anodized parts) tend to exacerbate these problems on anodized extruded aluminum. So, to be fair to him, there was no reason for him to think that anodizing was ever going to be anything other than the really easy final step where we drop if off at the anodizer for a day and get it back looking perfect. Instead, trying to solve this problem affordably has consumed 90% of the pre-production stage.
After all this fuss trying to get a perfect anodized finish, it seems futile and unwise invest any more time into more time-consuming anodizing experiments that may well just end up not working. Duracoat is a ridiculously cool coating used on firearms that I would love to use, but that would add about $30 per unit to the price already quoted. So I've given the shop in the US one more week to come up with two perfectly powder-coated samples (the last remaining affordable option), on my doorstep by next Friday. Since I've already paid for the tooling and jigs, I hate to change course precipitously, but at some point one must simply cut one's losses and consider the jigs a sunk cost. I don't want to spend the rest of my life doggedly trying to get these made in the USA if it's an uphill battle.
If powder works out, the advantage is we can offer white (and perhaps more colors) as options, so there is at least that upside. Another reason I personally like powder is that it's much less resistant to absorbing skin oils due to its lower porosity and thus is both easier to clean and looks nicer for longer without being cleaned. Powder does have less precision because the layer thickness is higher, but for parts like this, that hardly matters.
So, yeah, if that doesn't work, I'll just use the shop in China that made the prototypes and whom I know can produce these with an excellent finish quality. There will be considerably more headaches for me in sorting out the import duties, pricing, and fulfillment logistics, which frankly I was hoping to avoid. But if it's what I have to do so make sure we get our cases without paying a fortune, I'll do it! :)
As soon as I know something solid, you guys will too. I'm happy to answer any questions or to hear suggestions on different approaches I may not have considered.
Thanks again for being with me every step of the way. Just like with my previous projects, I know it's usually just a question of working out the process up front and then it's usually smooth sailing. But, as I say, I prefer to work all this out before we've taken anybody's money rather than the other way round. ;)
-Ryan
Post by: Trev on Fri, 20 May 2016, 18:15:46
I'm also happy to hear that a white case is still a possibility, by far my number one color choice (to go with blank white PBT's).
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 20 May 2016, 18:19:10
I'm also happy to hear that a white case is still a possibility, by far my number one color choice (to go with blank white PBT's).
Oh man, what a brilliant idea! This case also fits the Rapid-i, which even has a white plate. White case, white keys, white plate. How awesome would that be?!
Post by: need on Fri, 20 May 2016, 19:16:20
Post by: r5d on Fri, 20 May 2016, 19:46:41
How about a brushed finish?
Yes, or bead-blasted even.
Post by: Trev on Fri, 20 May 2016, 19:51:30
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 20 May 2016, 20:17:41
Also, brushed finishes really only work on planar surfaces. It would look weird around the corners and chamfers of the case.
Further, aluminum oxidizes a bit over time, which means the areas that you touch (i.e, that build up oils) will oxidize at a slower rate due to being effectively sealed from the air. So over time you'd get an uneven finish that would look pretty wonky. As I understand it, anodizing is fundamentally a controlled even oxidation of the surface with the addition of a dye. So it just hastens that process in a way that is (theoretically, at least) aesthetically appealing.
For better or worse, for for a daily-use consumer product, aluminum pretty much requires finishing step.
Post by: henz on Sat, 21 May 2016, 02:04:16
Post by: Trev on Sat, 21 May 2016, 02:22:56
Even with the black plate on the Novatouch, you don't see it except at certain angles, and then it would have a slight storm-trooper quality to it providing some contrasted accents.I'm also happy to hear that a white case is still a possibility, by far my number one color choice (to go with blank white PBT's).
Oh man, what a brilliant idea! This case also fits the Rapid-i, which even has a white plate. White case, white keys, white plate. How awesome would that be?!
I'm going to powder coat this thing regardless, but it would be awesome to have it done in the US. If I attempt it here, it'll probably be some guy called Bruce that thinks it's a $200 job.
Pure white blank PBT's are inbound. I'm also considering the G20 blank/flat/white PBT's from Signature Plastics. Going for a super clean and minimalist Novatouch build.
Post by: norbauer on Sat, 21 May 2016, 19:11:26
Is stainless steel an option? Or is it too expensive?
Stainless is both more expensive as a material and to machine. I would guess finishing on aluminum would be cheaper than stainless with finishing, though that's a bit of conjecture on my part. Bear in mind that these cases involve starting with a huge block and removing almost all the material, so materials are a big portion of the cost. Shipping is also a concern, especially for the non-USA folks, and steel is considerably heavier than aluminum. These reasons are why I think finished aluminum is going to be our best.
Post by: derzemel on Sun, 22 May 2016, 04:04:43
TL;DR: getting closer, but having to consider alternatives to ano.
Duracoat is a ridiculously cool coating used on firearms that I would love to use, but that would add about $30 per unit to the price already quoted. S
Maybe Cerakote would be cheaper than Duracoat?
This IBM 3278 Beamspring metal case is covered with Cerakote, Satin Aluminium color:
(http://i.imgur.com/Okmc6i2.jpg)
Taken from this DT thread: https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-3278-restoration-t9365.html
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 22 May 2016, 21:56:48
I like Cerakote and Duracoat both and eventually want to do some cases using those finishes. However, for the current project, they are probably overkill in terms of cost, as my goal here is just to get a nice replacement for the stock Novatouch/Rapid-i case in the hands of as many of us as want them as possible. If all goes well, I'm totally down for doing some more niche high-end cases in a subsequent group buy, whether it's for the Novatouch or something else.
Cerakote is more like a powder coat because it has to be baked on, so it's no less of an ordeal than powder coat itself. It does offer an advantage of greater durability, but keyboard cases aren't exactly the highest performance application so I think powder coat works just as well for our purposes. Duracoat is nice because it doesn't require curing in an oven (it cures itself via an exothermic reaction, like automotive urethanes or epoxy primers), but you basically have to use a shop with a professional down-draft spray booth if you're going to do it in volume flawlessly. The material itself is also expensive, because it's sold in small volumes for use on firearms by hobbyists for the most part.
So, yes, both interesting materials and processes but maybe just not our solution for this particular drop.
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 24 May 2016, 18:09:03
I've worked with the China shop on a lot of non-keyboard related projects in the past. We communicate very well and they do good work; I just wish using them didn't come with all the annoyances of importing from China. For this reason, I'm still pulling for the USA shop to sort out the finishing issues first.
The USA shop did manage to find a cheaper source for certified aluminum that wouldn't kill our budget. He has some of that on the way and will be cutting this week. And one of the existing samples is off at powder coating right now in white. So, assuming certified aluminum fixes the splotching issue, it's possible they might still come up with finished samples in black ano and white powder before the China shop does. Which frankly would delight me! Though if that happens it'll certainly be into next week.
Post by: Goon on Mon, 30 May 2016, 15:38:50
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 30 May 2016, 16:06:02
how heavy would this case be?Probably around 2,5Kg or so.
Post by: TheVengeance on Wed, 01 June 2016, 13:35:01
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 05 June 2016, 07:34:49
Just wanted to send a little ping to let everyone know I'm still on the case, as it were.
Post by: Jokrik on Mon, 06 June 2016, 04:55:32
Ho hum. Still waiting on finished samples from both vendors. So. Much. Waiting.
Just wanted to send a little ping to let everyone know I'm still on the case, as it were.
I'll definitely join in :)
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 12 June 2016, 14:55:47
Also, I have a new color/finish option cooked up that I think you guys are going to love, but I want to wait until I have good studio photos of it to show before saying too much. :D
Post by: Butter on Sun, 12 June 2016, 18:23:55
Finally some definitive progress to report!! The USA shop has come through for me and found a good finishing vendor with proof in the form of actual pre-production samples. Two completed powder coated samples are at long last on their way to my workshop right now. I have seen some quick phone snaps of them, and they look great. Unfortunately I'm traveling on business this coming week and won't be able to take and upload proper photos until I'm back, but I think we've finally got everything worked out--meaning I'll be comfortable moving to the group buy stage right after I turn the samples around and send them to MassDrop.
Also, I have a new color/finish option cooked up that I think you guys are going to love, but I want to wait until I have good studio photos of it to show before saying too much. :D
Nice! Can't wait for the GB :)
Post by: Thumper_ on Wed, 15 June 2016, 03:14:18
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 15 June 2016, 04:43:33
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Wed, 15 June 2016, 06:22:28
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 15 June 2016, 10:17:16
Post by: need on Wed, 15 June 2016, 10:36:59
Is there any plan for a EU proxy or any other way to avoid those heavy custom fees? Speaking of 19% in Germany for 20-150€ and 19% + x% depending on the categorization (its not a keyboard without PCB/keys). Otherwise gifts up to 45€ are free of fees...It's going to run through massdrop, so the answer is no.
Post by: Thumper_ on Wed, 15 June 2016, 11:06:53
Is there any plan for a EU proxy or any other way to avoid those heavy custom fees? Speaking of 19% in Germany for 20-150€ and 19% + x% depending on the categorization (its not a keyboard without PCB/keys). Otherwise gifts up to 45€ are free of fees...It's going to run through massdrop, so the answer is no.
Yeah massdrop. They can't even fill custom forms out. 3/3 packages I got from them all got stuck at German customs :/
Post by: airs on Wed, 15 June 2016, 14:52:48
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 15 June 2016, 15:00:08
Post by: Marshal on Wed, 15 June 2016, 17:13:51
Post by: Possessed Gamer on Wed, 15 June 2016, 17:37:40
Post by: Reckless5040 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 23:45:45
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 22 June 2016, 04:30:47
These continue to be Made in the USA.
The first is the one I'm most excited about. It is inspired by a popular vintage electronics and mechanical device chassis finish known as "wrinkle coat." It can be seen, for example, on the German Engima machine (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Enigma_Machine_-_Flickr_-_The_Central_Intelligence_Agency_(2).jpg)and 1940s Royal typewriters (http://www.warrenworks.com/TypewriterPages/TypewritersGreyScale/Royal_DeLuxe_18.jpg).
I'm calling this option Enigma Black
Here it is on my case.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-1.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-2.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-3.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-4.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-5.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-6.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-7.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-8.jpg)
Second option is Space Station White
It has a nice glossy look and feel and a nice futuristic simplicity.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-white-1.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-white-2.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-white-3.jpg)
A couple of important things!
I think I'm going to just sell these directly as a GeekHack group buy rather than going with MassDrop. I have nothing against MassDrop, but they were in a hurry—understandably given the delays up to this point—and it's still going to take me a few weeks before I'm ready to start actually taking money/orders while I test out the riser feet and a few other tiny details. I can't stress this enough, but I'm just not willing to rush, both because this is a hobby for me and I don't need the stress but also because the fun for me is doing something unique and doing it really well, and that just takes as long as it takes. If the initial run goes well, I'll be happy to talk to MassDrop about doing a run for their community.
Also: even though it will mean a bit more work for me than going with MassDrop, it will also mean that I have a bit of extra funds (which would have gone to MassDrop profit margin) that will allow me to over-produce the cases by a certain quantity in case there are any imperfect ones so I can only ship the ones that look best—and so that there are few extras in case of something getting lost by mail or whatever. If they don't end up being needed, I'll sell them in the classifieds as "factory seconds" at a discount.
In case it isn't obvious, I worry about worst case scenarios a lot. ;)
Anyway, they'll be drop shipped right from the machine shop to you wherever you are using labels that I prepare. The cost will be the same as before: $199 + shipping, and I'll try to come up with something accommodating for international buyers. Optional screw-in riser feet are $16 per set.
And, if for some reason you have more money than you know what to do with, a custom color is also possible through the powder coating vendor for an additional set up charge of $100 (!), which I can work out on an individual basis if anybody wants to go that route. There are some really cool off-the-wall colors available.
MOQ at these prices is 20. Below that and I have to talk to the shop and see if we can work something out, and I suspect they'd want to raise the unit cost.
Make yourself counted!
Given the details above, please reconfirm your interest by saying how many and what color option you want. It seems from people's informal interest above that there will be enough to hit the MOQ, but I just want to confirm. I hope you guys are OK with the finishing options I was able to work out locally.
It has taken soooo long to get here, I know, but at least it looks like we're in the proverbial home stretch. :D
Post by: WNovizar on Wed, 22 June 2016, 04:35:51
Post by: fax668 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 04:53:41
Fantastic work, Ryan!
Post by: Trev on Wed, 22 June 2016, 05:06:05
Do you happen to know if there's a height difference between the stock case and yours? (the bottom row, measured from case bottom to tops of keycaps).
Post by: derzemel on Wed, 22 June 2016, 05:08:29
Also, can you put some cherry beige keycaps on the Enigma Black case and take a picture? :D
Post by: r5d on Wed, 22 June 2016, 05:46:34
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Wed, 22 June 2016, 05:52:11
Post by: henz on Wed, 22 June 2016, 05:56:48
Post by: raymogi on Wed, 22 June 2016, 06:09:04
Post by: ramnes on Wed, 22 June 2016, 06:25:08
About the black... I feel like that texture doesn't match well with the style of the case. :-[
Post by: Jokrik on Wed, 22 June 2016, 06:33:37
1
Post by: mrkevint on Wed, 22 June 2016, 06:38:06
Post by: gain on Wed, 22 June 2016, 06:39:03
Post by: exitfire401 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 07:27:27
Post by: kokokoy on Wed, 22 June 2016, 07:28:52
Post by: cryptokey on Wed, 22 June 2016, 07:37:07
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Wed, 22 June 2016, 07:48:52
Post by: codywanks on Wed, 22 June 2016, 08:07:32
*edit: totally missed this post (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80317.msg2202942#msg2202942)
Post by: feediko on Wed, 22 June 2016, 08:48:24
Post by: oliver_higgenbottom on Wed, 22 June 2016, 08:59:11
Post by: Butter on Wed, 22 June 2016, 09:12:31
Post by: exela on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:01:16
Just curious, how many will need to go in - in order to get similar pricing for another color? (since its almost 100 more for a custom color)
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:20:55
Post by: exela on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:23:59
Hey all. I can definitely do a charcoal grey option too for no additional cost since I know multiple people will be interested. Let me work on getting a swatch. I just can't do single one-off colors without a fee because both the machine shop and the powder place charge me a fair amount in setup and handling fees to deal with color changes.
Yes! You are magnificent. Can't thank you enough for all of this. :D
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:24:13
the Enigma black really has a textured feel? I cannot clearly see from the images. My grandparents had a Royal typewriter and that textured case one of the best things ever.
It definitely has a physical texture, but it's pretty smooth to the touch, just like the original Royal typewriter cases.
Post by: ramnes on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:34:57
Post by: ChemicalHalo on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:43:02
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:43:28
Do you happen to know if there's a height difference between the stock case and yours? (the bottom row, measured from case bottom to tops of keycaps).
I can look up the exact numbers if you need them, but I believe it's maybe a tiny bit taller at the front and a bit shorter at the back compared to the stock case, which has a downward slope back to front.
Mine only has a slope of you install the riser feet.
Post by: Gajible on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:44:38
Disappointed there are no colourful options, but it is what it is
Post by: ramnes on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:44:49
Post by: Goon on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:47:54
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:50:41
Anodized charcoal grey? :cool: ;D
For various frustrating logistical reasons, anodizing didn't turn out to be possible on this run. I would have to ship the cases back and forth around the country to a vendor who could do the work reliably. Powder has some cool properties, though, and is not often seen in the keyboard world, so I'm fine with that option. I personally think the wrinkle finish is pretty cool and am probably going to use that on my own final board.
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Wed, 22 June 2016, 11:10:21
Dark gray.
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Wed, 22 June 2016, 11:14:18
For those of you who wanted gray, can you give me an example of the shade you had in mind? I'm curious how dark to go.
Something close to this color would be great.
(http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh495/jokrik89/Mech%20Keyboard/KMAC-1_zps4f3aa7f7.jpg)
Post by: Razer1987 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 11:20:55
Thank you for your hard work, that looks amazing !
Post by: mrkevint on Wed, 22 June 2016, 12:42:02
Post by: airs on Wed, 22 June 2016, 12:53:09
Show Image(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5c/d2/1c/5cd21cb8178d7cb4ada20210e39a4f57.jpg)
Dark gray.
So much this. I would definitely be in for Dark Gray.
Post by: RexS on Wed, 22 June 2016, 14:48:55
Post by: KetchyKech on Wed, 22 June 2016, 15:11:22
Post by: BrettW on Wed, 22 June 2016, 15:50:41
Post by: eksuen on Wed, 22 June 2016, 16:00:22
Post by: itskuroi on Wed, 22 June 2016, 18:45:48
Post by: airs on Wed, 22 June 2016, 18:50:22
Post by: Jokrik on Wed, 22 June 2016, 19:28:45
For those of you who wanted gray, can you give me an example of the shade you had in mind? I'm curious how dark to go.
Something close to this color would be great.Show Image(http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh495/jokrik89/Mech%20Keyboard/KMAC-1_zps4f3aa7f7.jpg)
Hmmm lol I'll end up with a duplicate board :p
but yeah dark gray like on OTD board is also good
Post by: roostrc0gburn on Wed, 22 June 2016, 21:29:27
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 22 June 2016, 21:57:38
Tritan Grey
(http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/public/final_pi_pss-4423.jpg)
My only slight concern about dark gray is that dark colors tend more to show the slightly wavy texture that is inherent to all powder coating, and given that people are used to anodized finishes on keyboards I'm hesitant about people feeling like they somehow got an aberrant board when it shows up with a slight visible texture. Just like with automotive show finishes, dark colors tend to show surface texture more than light colors.
Here is a photo of the keyboard with plain (non-wrinkle) black powder coating on it.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-QandA-2.jpg)
You can see the slightly stone-like texture under light at some angles. This is more visible with glossier finishes. So far as I know, it's present on all kinds of powder coating and isn't a sign of any lack of skill on the part of the powder coater. In fact, I'm working with a pretty high-end outfit that primarily does fancy architectural finishes. It's just the nature of how powder coat works: they spray on a charged layer of pigment particles and bake it, causing the powder to melt and flow out, forming a hard shell around the metal part. The advantage is you end up with a thick protective overlayer (relative to anodizing anyway) but it does mean that it's a more irregular layer sitting on top of the metal (more like a really hard spray paint) rather than a dead flat layer like you get with ano. Another thing distinguishing powder is that it allows for a truly opaque coating layer with strong pigmentation. With ano, the metal underneath always colors the dye layer a bit such that everything looks sort of metallic.
norbauer: can you please post some pictures of the Black Enigma with other keycaps?
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-QandA-1.jpg)
Post by: boo on Thu, 23 June 2016, 00:17:30
Hey everybody. Excellent news! The first samples I've been happy with have arrived and while I still want to tweak a small detail and am waiting for riser feet, I'm quite pleased. I opted for two finishes that are fairly rare in the CNC keyboard case world, both powder coat rather than the much more common anodizing. While powder coating can have a slightly wavy surface compared to anodizing when examined under bright light closeup, nothing can match it for its vintage industrial feel, which as you'll see, is something I've tried to embrace with the finish options. It creates a sort of hard shell around the aluminum, which I think is really cool.Hey love your pictures of the case! In for the white one. Got a quick question tho. Some of those holes for the screw seems to have very little wall thickness towards the outside edge. Have you seen that as a problem from durability perspective? I just worry that a slight hit would cause that wall thickness to cave. Seems super thin at 1-2mm max
These continue to be Made in the USA.
The first is the one I'm most excited about. It is inspired by a popular vintage electronics and mechanical device chassis finish known as "wrinkle coat." It can be seen, for example, on the German Engima machine (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Enigma_Machine_-_Flickr_-_The_Central_Intelligence_Agency_(2).jpg)and 1940s Royal typewriters (http://www.warrenworks.com/TypewriterPages/TypewritersGreyScale/Royal_DeLuxe_18.jpg).
I'm calling this option Enigma Black
Here it is on my case.Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-1.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-2.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-3.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-4.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-5.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-6.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-7.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-8.jpg)
Second option is Space Station White
It has a nice glossy look and feel and a nice futuristic simplicity.Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-white-1.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-white-2.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-white-3.jpg)
A couple of important things!
I think I'm going to just sell these directly as a GeekHack group buy rather than going with MassDrop. I have nothing against MassDrop, but they were in a hurry—understandably given the delays up to this point—and it's still going to take me a few weeks before I'm ready to start actually taking money/orders while I test out the riser feet and a few other tiny details. I can't stress this enough, but I'm just not willing to rush, both because this is a hobby for me and I don't need the stress but also because the fun for me is doing something unique and doing it really well, and that just takes as long as it takes. If the initial run goes well, I'll be happy to talk to MassDrop about doing a run for their community.
Also: even though it will mean a bit more work for me than going with MassDrop, it will also mean that I have a bit of extra funds (which would have gone to MassDrop profit margin) that will allow me to over-produce the cases by a certain quantity in case there are any imperfect ones so I can only ship the ones that look best—and so that there are few extras in case of something getting lost by mail or whatever. If they don't end up being needed, I'll sell them in the classifieds as "factory seconds" at a discount.
In case it isn't obvious, I worry about worst case scenarios a lot. ;)
Anyway, they'll be drop shipped right from the machine shop to you wherever you are using labels that I prepare. The cost will be the same as before: $199 + shipping, and I'll try to come up with something accommodating for international buyers. Optional screw-in riser feet are $16 per set.
And, if for some reason you have more money than you know what to do with, a custom color is also possible through the powder coating vendor for an additional set up charge of $100 (!), which I can work out on an individual basis if anybody wants to go that route. There are some really cool off-the-wall colors available.
MOQ at these prices is 20. Below that and I have to talk to the shop and see if we can work something out, and I suspect they'd want to raise the unit cost.
Make yourself counted!
Given the details above, please reconfirm your interest by saying how many and what color option you want. It seems from people's informal interest above that there will be enough to hit the MOQ, but I just want to confirm. I hope you guys are OK with the finishing options I was able to work out locally.
It has taken soooo long to get here, I know, but at least it looks like we're in the proverbial home stretch. :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 23 June 2016, 00:32:20
Hey love your pictures of the case! In for the white one. Got a quick question tho. Some of those holes for the screw seems to have very little wall thickness towards the outside edge. Have you seen that as a problem from durability perspective? I just worry that a slight hit would cause that wall thickness to cave. Seems super thin at 1-2mm max
That is a legitimate concern. While I haven't experienced damage to a corner yet, there is indeed very little material there. The motivation for that was just to try to keep the case profile nice and slim. As you can see in this photo, I don't have much room to work with without increasing the overall profile of the case.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-enigma-black-5.jpg)
In particular around the bottom edge below the spacebar, I didn't want to have a really big bezel. The stock case has a pretty narrow wall there and I tried to carry that over into my design.
It's just a question of design trade-offs, I guess. I realize this is kind of lame, but my advice would be: just try not to drop it on the floor and have it land on the corner. ;)
Post by: Thumper_ on Thu, 23 June 2016, 02:21:59
Hey all. I can definitely do a charcoal grey option too for no additional cost since I know multiple people will be interested. Let me work on getting a swatch. I just can't do single one-off colors without a fee because both the machine shop and the powder place charge me a fair amount in setup and handling fees to deal with color changes.
I'm in for charcoal grey!
Post by: Phenix on Thu, 23 June 2016, 03:08:15
May it be possible that you do a short video of them? (just to compare the colors / see some more details)
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Thu, 23 June 2016, 03:21:11
Post by: repuls0r on Thu, 23 June 2016, 03:49:12
Post by: 3rdEden on Thu, 23 June 2016, 10:06:45
Post by: SKD on Thu, 23 June 2016, 11:21:32
Post by: bred on Fri, 24 June 2016, 06:57:54
Post by: guy12 on Fri, 24 June 2016, 08:36:04
Post by: FranksNewLiver on Fri, 24 June 2016, 15:56:49
Post by: codywanks on Fri, 24 June 2016, 17:22:11
Hey all. I can definitely do a charcoal grey option too for no additional cost since I know multiple people will be interested. Let me work on getting a swatch. I just can't do single one-off colors without a fee because both the machine shop and the powder place charge me a fair amount in setup and handling fees to deal with color changes.
Waiting on this. I'd be in for 2x as per my earlier post (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80317.msg2089496#msg2089496) if it turns out well. I've been staring at the Enigma Black pics for two days but simply can't bring myself to fall in love with it. :(
Post by: oatmicro on Sun, 26 June 2016, 03:15:41
depend on shipping cost, poor asian man :'(
Post by: Phenix on Sun, 26 June 2016, 13:47:14
Post by: aggiejy on Sun, 26 June 2016, 15:15:47
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 26 June 2016, 16:28:10
Are some custom TKL PCBs (Phantom..) compatbile with this case?
From what I can tell, only the Novatouch and Rapid-i are compatible, but that covers a wider array of typing experiences than most cases for sure. :)
Post by: Phenix on Sun, 26 June 2016, 17:32:43
Post by: SKD on Mon, 27 June 2016, 17:53:04
I am just in need for an programme controller for the Novatouch, IIRC qfr-i has already one
A separate programmable controller for the qfr-i? I'm pretty sure the frosty flake controller is only for the standard qfr and not the i version.
Post by: Phenix on Tue, 28 June 2016, 01:14:22
Post by: duhhey on Wed, 29 June 2016, 19:13:55
Post by: evangs on Thu, 30 June 2016, 18:13:24
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Fri, 01 July 2016, 17:06:13
Post by: axtran on Mon, 04 July 2016, 22:41:19
Post by: McPwned on Mon, 04 July 2016, 22:54:40
Post by: laggo on Mon, 04 July 2016, 23:13:54
Post by: Reckless5040 on Tue, 05 July 2016, 05:01:38
Would this be compatible with the MasterKeys Pro S?
I've been wondering the same thing. It seems like they at least use similar cases.
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Tue, 05 July 2016, 05:54:56
Would this be compatible with the MasterKeys Pro S?
I've been wondering the same thing. It seems like they at least use similar cases.
This has been discussed in the thread before. The answer unfortunately seems to be no.
Post by: Reckless5040 on Wed, 06 July 2016, 02:58:13
Post by: Kirfloof on Wed, 06 July 2016, 04:09:57
It's all looking very good though.
Post by: bred on Wed, 06 July 2016, 06:50:38
I'd like to think a nice dark bronze orange would look pretty epic paired up with Nantucket, but I suspect the big drop in the pound puts even the $200 version out of reach for me right now. >:D
It's all looking very good though.
+1,000
Post by: Mike89914 on Wed, 06 July 2016, 08:54:14
Would this be compatible with the MasterKeys Pro S?
I've been wondering the same thing. It seems like they at least use similar cases.
This has been discussed in the thread before. The answer unfortunately seems to be no.
Sad :(
Post by: merutz on Thu, 07 July 2016, 10:06:09
Kudos for all the hard work. I just found out this morning about this project and just read all the posts to make sure I don't miss a thing.
Pretty bummed about the anodized black look that couldn't be done :( but maybe you'll get it right on the second GB.
Hope to hear of the GB soon!
P.S. It sort of resemblances this timeless beauty. More pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/95Dc3
[attachimg=1]
Psst! Sell me your prototype! haha!
Post by: laggo on Fri, 08 July 2016, 21:39:18
Sorry about that, I did search the thread of that but it didn't find anything. Prob the Tapatalk app being "awesome" as usual. Thanks for the clarification!Would this be compatible with the MasterKeys Pro S?
I've been wondering the same thing. It seems like they at least use similar cases.
This has been discussed in the thread before. The answer unfortunately seems to be no.
Post by: repuls0r on Tue, 12 July 2016, 23:29:37
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 12 July 2016, 23:56:50
Hey all. I can definitely do a charcoal grey option too for no additional cost since I know multiple people will be interested. Let me work on getting a swatch. I just can't do single one-off colors without a fee because both the machine shop and the powder place charge me a fair amount in setup and handling fees to deal with color changes.
Waiting on this. I'd be in for 2x as per my earlier post (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80317.msg2089496#msg2089496) if it turns out well. I've been staring at the Enigma Black pics for two days but simply can't bring myself to fall in love with it. :(
Still waiting :)
Post by: Reckless5040 on Thu, 14 July 2016, 05:32:06
Post by: codywanks on Thu, 14 July 2016, 06:02:37
I gotta agree man the finish on that black makes this GB DOA for me :(
Most people love it. We are in the minority.
Post by: mrkevint on Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:19:14
I gotta agree man the finish on that black makes this GB DOA for me :(
I think that norbauer was considering a charcoal grey option due to popular demand.
That color would be worth considering if it's offered in the group buy.
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:25:14
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:43:16
The latest status is that I've been trying to work on a third color option for those who want it. I've looked at various grays and gotten all sorts of swatches, but most of them have some kind of blue or green color shift that seems odd to me. I think Tritan Grey from Prismatic Powders is a good potential option, so I got a physical sample made of it on thin sheet aluminum. These are just crappy iPhone pics, but I tried to show it in different lighting situations at contrasts next to each other (sun, shadow, incandescent).
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-tritan-gray-2.jpg)
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-tritan-grey-1.jpg)
This gray isn't quite as dark as some of the nearly-black example images shown earlier in the thread, so I wanted to get some feedback. I kind of like it since we already have a black option, however, and two sorta-kind-black colors seems redudant. It's somewhere between a medium gray and black, I'd say. But it's definitely not as dark as a typical charcoal color or similar.
This is the sample image that Prismatic provides of the color:
(http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/public/final_pi_pss-4423.jpg)
Let me know what you think! Should I go ahead and get a full case coated with this color so we can see it that way?
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Thu, 14 July 2016, 13:16:34
Hey guys. Sorry for my slow replies the last week or two but I'm currently in the midst of prepping for an unexpected cross-country move (Boston to Silicon Valley) at the end of the month--which, I'm quite happy about. In any case, progress is still happening on the cases in the midst of all this chaos, and I'll try not to let it slow things down too much. :) Fortunately, all of the prototyping was done some time ago so I no longer need access to my workshop to finish this project and it's mostly just me chasing vendors up by email and waiting (impatiently) for samples--all of which I can easily do in the midst of my move.
The latest status is that I've been trying to work on a third color option for those who want it. I've looked at various grays and gotten all sorts of swatches, but most of them have some kind of blue or green color shift that seems odd to me. I think Tritan Grey from Prismatic Powders is a good potential option, so I got a physical sample made of it on thin sheet aluminum. These are just crappy iPhone pics, but I tried to show it in different lighting situations at contrasts next to each other (sun, shadow, incandescent).Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-tritan-gray-2.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-tritan-grey-1.jpg)
This gray isn't quite as dark as some of the nearly-black example images shown earlier in the thread, so I wanted to get some feedback. I kind of like it since we already have a black option, however, and two sorta-kind-black colors seems redudant. It's somewhere between a medium gray and black, I'd say. But it's definitely not as dark as a typical charcoal color or similar.
This is the sample image that Prismatic provides of the color:Show Image(http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/public/final_pi_pss-4423.jpg)
Let me know what you think! Should I go ahead and get a full case coated with this color so we can see it that way?
Looks good to me.
Post by: thel on Thu, 14 July 2016, 16:41:35
I always thought the coating was non-glare, so i am kinda suprised it looks so glossy.
My personal favorite is still the plain (non-wrinkle) black powder coating. But i guess everyone prefers another colour option, which makes the selection rather tricky....
The Enigma look is just not my thing.
Anyways, it is nice to see the progress.
Hey guys. Sorry for my slow replies the last week or two but I'm currently in the midst of prepping for an unexpected cross-country move (Boston to Silicon Valley) at the end of the month--which, I'm quite happy about. In any case, progress is still happening on the cases in the midst of all this chaos, and I'll try not to let it slow things down too much. :) Fortunately, all of the prototyping was done some time ago so I no longer need access to my workshop to finish this project and it's mostly just me chasing vendors up by email and waiting (impatiently) for samples--all of which I can easily do in the midst of my move.
The latest status is that I've been trying to work on a third color option for those who want it. I've looked at various grays and gotten all sorts of swatches, but most of them have some kind of blue or green color shift that seems odd to me. I think Tritan Grey from Prismatic Powders is a good potential option, so I got a physical sample made of it on thin sheet aluminum. These are just crappy iPhone pics, but I tried to show it in different lighting situations at contrasts next to each other (sun, shadow, incandescent).Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-tritan-gray-2.jpg)Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-tritan-grey-1.jpg)
This gray isn't quite as dark as some of the nearly-black example images shown earlier in the thread, so I wanted to get some feedback. I kind of like it since we already have a black option, however, and two sorta-kind-black colors seems redudant. It's somewhere between a medium gray and black, I'd say. But it's definitely not as dark as a typical charcoal color or similar.
This is the sample image that Prismatic provides of the color:Show Image(http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/public/final_pi_pss-4423.jpg)
Let me know what you think! Should I go ahead and get a full case coated with this color so we can see it that way?
Post by: oliver_higgenbottom on Thu, 14 July 2016, 16:47:31
Post by: Reckless5040 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 08:43:10
Post by: Jokrik on Fri, 15 July 2016, 08:47:40
thx for the new option on color!
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 18 July 2016, 13:14:02
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 19 July 2016, 09:24:43
Count me in for an Enigma Black.
Kudos for all the hard work. I just found out this morning about this project and just read all the posts to make sure I don't miss a thing.
Pretty bummed about the anodized black look that couldn't be done :( but maybe you'll get it right on the second GB.
Hope to hear of the GB soon!
P.S. It sort of resemblances this timeless beauty. More pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/95Dc3
(Attachment Link)
By the way, I forgot to reply to this but I love that IBM! Is that a hammered finish on it?
Post by: derzemel on Tue, 19 July 2016, 09:42:08
Count me in for an Enigma Black.
Kudos for all the hard work. I just found out this morning about this project and just read all the posts to make sure I don't miss a thing.
Pretty bummed about the anodized black look that couldn't be done :( but maybe you'll get it right on the second GB.
Hope to hear of the GB soon!
P.S. It sort of resemblances this timeless beauty. More pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/95Dc3
(Attachment Link)
By the way, I forgot to reply to this but I love that IBM! Is that a hammered finish on it?
yeah, if you could find a gray finish like that IBM... damn, I am getting giddy only thinking about it :)))
Post by: merutz on Tue, 19 July 2016, 17:05:43
By the way, I forgot to reply to this but I love that IBM! Is that a hammered finish on it?
Yep! It's hammered paint.
Post by: Firstoftheyear on Tue, 19 July 2016, 19:55:39
Post by: dbucklin on Sat, 23 July 2016, 20:15:38
Post by: nateth on Sat, 23 July 2016, 21:58:13
I also picked up a NovaTouch through MD. I'll be keeping an eye on this in case I fall in love with it.
I second this.
Post by: bubbedi on Wed, 27 July 2016, 11:05:51
Post by: Aricil on Sat, 30 July 2016, 12:31:16
Post by: duynguyenle on Sat, 30 July 2016, 15:14:51
Oh man, I'd be so stoked to have one of these! I'll have to go back through and actually read the thread besides the first couple lines of the OP, to see what the cost and time frame and everything is, but if this is less than like 75 or 100 bucks I'd totally be down to get one.
I don't think it will be anywhere near 75-100 dollars, probably gonna be a lot closer to 200. CNC cases tend to be expensive due to time taken to produce a single unit. Casting tends to be cheaper but you will need to sell thousands of units to recoup the cost of producing the casting moulds.
Post by: henz on Sat, 30 July 2016, 15:50:05
Post by: Aricil on Sun, 31 July 2016, 07:37:56
Count me in for an Enigma Black.
Kudos for all the hard work. I just found out this morning about this project and just read all the posts to make sure I don't miss a thing.
Pretty bummed about the anodized black look that couldn't be done :( but maybe you'll get it right on the second GB.
Hope to hear of the GB soon!
P.S. It sort of resemblances this timeless beauty. More pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/95Dc3
(Attachment Link)
Psst! Sell me your prototype! haha!
Omg why has nobody made a keycap set based off that board
Post by: Aricil on Sun, 31 July 2016, 07:40:22
Oh man, I'd be so stoked to have one of these! I'll have to go back through and actually read the thread besides the first couple lines of the OP, to see what the cost and time frame and everything is, but if this is less than like 75 or 100 bucks I'd totally be down to get one.
I don't think it will be anywhere near 75-100 dollars, probably gonna be a lot closer to 200. CNC cases tend to be expensive due to time taken to produce a single unit. Casting tends to be cheaper but you will need to sell thousands of units to recoup the cost of producing the casting moulds.
Oh... Well, darn. Maybe I'd get it still, but at that price I could buy 2 other boards I've been wanting. Bummer =-( Or I could get a case for my VA87M which I'd rather get as it's my daily driver. Oh well. I guess I could always think about it.
Post by: euclydian on Sun, 31 July 2016, 10:50:57
Post by: nateth on Fri, 05 August 2016, 08:40:17
I finally got my Novatouch, and I honestly like it. (I loathed the RF 87U 55g, and I thought I'd hate the Novatouch.) It's got a great feel with GMK keycaps on it.
Post by: m1kehonch0 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 16:17:35
I digress, love the concept, make an already awesome board even better. Get it done around $200 and you'll have no shortage of punters. Even better if you can offer a range of anodizing colors.
Nice work!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Butter on Sun, 14 August 2016, 22:45:20
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 14 August 2016, 22:47:58
Post by: Butter on Mon, 15 August 2016, 10:46:14
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 15 August 2016, 11:59:37
Post by: TheVengeance on Wed, 17 August 2016, 00:54:07
Not dead at all. I just completed my cross country move earlier this week, and the latest round of sample cases including the requested gray color and risers are supposed to be finished on Monday and then on their way to me. You guys will be the first to know as soon as I have the latest round of samples and pics to show. :)Woop woop. We're one step closer
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 17 August 2016, 00:56:40
Post by: phinix on Thu, 18 August 2016, 12:00:26
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 19 August 2016, 02:15:11
What initially would be a price for enigma black case?
Same as the originally planned MassDrop price: $200 + shipping.
Post by: phinix on Fri, 19 August 2016, 12:12:51
Do you know why is it two time cheaper? I know that there is difference in size but this cannot be that much.
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 19 August 2016, 12:37:53
Leopold 660 aluminum case is out now on Massdrop for $99.
Do you know why is it two time cheaper? I know that there is difference in size but this cannot be that much.
Mass-produced vs small scale one-off production run?
If the Leopold case is cast instead of machined, that would make a big difference in price (per-unit cost for casting is much cheaper once the tooling costs have been fully amortised.
Post by: dbucklin on Mon, 22 August 2016, 12:36:28
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 22 August 2016, 13:38:44
I have to bow out of this. I'm not really in love with the NovaTouch now that I've spent some time with it.
Did you try to silence it using hypersphere orings? They silence the upstroke.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 22 August 2016, 13:43:16
I have to bow out of this. I'm not really in love with the NovaTouch now that I've spent some time with it.
No worries at all. Everybody has his or her own taste and prefs in keyboards. I personally love my Novatouch, but I also know I have weird tastes in general. ;)
Post by: Bromono on Mon, 22 August 2016, 13:48:20
Post by: dbucklin on Mon, 22 August 2016, 17:14:44
I have to bow out of this. I'm not really in love with the NovaTouch now that I've spent some time with it.
Did you try to silence it using hypersphere orings? They silence the upstroke.
It's not that, it's the tactility. It's not enough and too much at the same time. I gave it a week and when I went back to browns it was like coming back home; it just felt right.
I have to bow out of this. I'm not really in love with the NovaTouch now that I've spent some time with it.
No worries at all. Everybody has his or her own taste and prefs in keyboards. I personally love my Novatouch, but I also know I have weird tastes in general. ;)
Haha, yeah. One of my favorite aphorisms is that there's no accounting for taste. Best of luck with this IC and eventual GB!
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 24 August 2016, 01:11:41
I'll post proper photos tomorrow when I have sunlight and will detail the next steps. :)
Post by: nateth on Wed, 24 August 2016, 01:13:18
I can't wait to see the pictures!
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 24 August 2016, 01:17:43
All hail norbauer!!! Great protector of the Novatouch!
I can't wait to see the pictures!
haha. thanks!
The pics won't be as well shot as the ones before, as I'm currently living in temp housing until next month and won't have access to my studio photography set-up until then. But I'll come up with something. :)
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 25 August 2016, 04:23:17
These are the three colors/finishes
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/novatouch-third-prototype-batch-1.jpg)
Side by side with feet installed
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/novatouch-feet-1.jpg)
Riser foot
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/novatouch-foot-1.jpg)
I do have some thoughts/concerns on the design and manufacturing and want to solicit some feedback from you guys on those details and options before we finalize things. Unfortunately, I'm exhausted tonight here at 2am California time (I bought a house today, so it's been a busy an exhausting day!), so I will have to write that all up tomorrow, but will definitely do so. In any case, though, I promised pictures today and didn't want to go to bed without showing these.
What do you guys think about the gray color? I personally like it a lot.
Post by: mrkevint on Thu, 25 August 2016, 04:39:10
BTW congratulations on your new home!
Post by: ramnes on Thu, 25 August 2016, 06:04:48
Post by: nateth on Thu, 25 August 2016, 08:01:25
Thanks for the pictures. The gray color is everything that I could have hoped for :).
I second this.
And congrats on the new house!
Post by: elcubismo on Thu, 25 August 2016, 10:57:23
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 25 August 2016, 11:01:49
For some reason I can't see the pictures :/
Neither can I.
Post by: derzemel on Thu, 25 August 2016, 11:03:51
For some reason I can't see the pictures :/
Neither can I.
Here you go (luckily I wanted a new wallpaper so I saved them ;D ):
(http://i.imgur.com/SynTmcs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rKJYIgR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PchvGb1.jpg)
Post by: elcubismo on Thu, 25 August 2016, 11:06:40
For some reason I can't see the pictures :/
Neither can I.
Here you go (luckily I wanted a new wallpaper so I saved them ;D ):Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/SynTmcs.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rKJYIgR.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PchvGb1.jpg)
You sir are the real MVP!
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 25 August 2016, 12:21:42
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 25 August 2016, 12:37:56
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 25 August 2016, 12:55:40
Post by: ChemicalHalo on Thu, 25 August 2016, 17:56:07
Post by: phinix on Thu, 25 August 2016, 17:58:31
What was the height of it?
Also, price - $200 + shipping at 50 purchased cases.
If more we can see a price drop, is that right?
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 26 August 2016, 05:01:46
Firstly, the the wrinkle coat, as one would imagine, adds a significantly larger amount of bulk to the surface. This means that for the wrinkle coat cases, the alignment pins have a much tighter tolerance and can even bulge the surface a bit when driven into place by the machine shop. I have asked them to investigate using narrower diameter pins on those cases, but it's possible the issue may not be resolved. I can ask them to make another case and am happy to pay for that. However, it will mean a further delay of a couple of weeks.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/novatouch-press-pins-1.jpg)
I am also concerned that the above described phenomenon may cause the bumpons not to seat fully into their pockets. Since I'm in the middle of a cross-country move I don't have access to my reference bumpons and have ordered replacements, which will arrive to me in the next couple of days. I'll test and report back.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/novatouch-wrinkle-indents-1.jpg)
Thirdly, I designed in recesses for the riser feet for bumpons. However, the shop forgot to create those pockets in the riser feet (you can see that on the left in the image above). I'm going to try the case with just the bumpons on the front with the riser feet installed, as it actually seems fine without the bumpons on the risers as it is now, but I feel like I'll want them to add these bumpon pockets back for the production run.
Lastly, on the back of the cases there are some subtle machining marks, which are really only visible if you hold the darker colored grey case at the right angle under bright light (they're not visible really with the brightness of white finish or the thickness of the wrinkle coat).
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/novatouch-machining-marks-bottom-1.jpg)
The machining marks are also left in place on the inside of the case. They're in a kind of cool spiral pattern and hidden anyway, so I figure this is cool with everyone. It saves money not to have to do a slow finishing pass here with the CNC machine.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/novatouch-machining-marks-top-1.jpg)
These are not present, however, on the important show face of the cases: the front bezel around the keys and on the sides of the case, as you can see in the above image.
Please let me know what you guys think about these issues and we'll figure out how to proceed.
Post by: McPwned on Fri, 26 August 2016, 07:31:16
Firstly, the the wrinkle coat, as one would imagine, adds a significantly larger amount of bulk to the surface. This means that for the wrinkle coat cases, the alignment pins have a much tighter tolerance and can even bulge the surface a bit when driven into place by the machine shop. I have asked them to investigate using narrower diameter pins on those cases, but it's possible the issue may not be resolved. I can ask them to make another case and am happy to pay for that. However, it will mean a further delay of a couple of weeks.
I am also concerned that the above described phenomenon may cause the bumpons not to seat fully into their pockets. Since I'm in the middle of a cross-country move I don't have access to my reference bumpons and have ordered replacements, which will arrive to me in the next couple of days. I'll test and report back.
Are the bulges seen along all sides of the case? If so, I can't say I'm crazy about that. If it's just the back as pictured, I'd be okay with it. As for the bumpons, is there not a smaller diameter we could pick if it becomes an issue?
Post by: nateth on Fri, 26 August 2016, 09:28:45
I wouldn't be so hot with the bulge unless it's just on the back side.
Unless you can get smaller pins and smaller diameter bumpons (Should they not fit). I'd say do one more round of perfecting even though that means I have to wait another couple of weeks to get my grey or white case.
I think the machining marks look cool. It kinda speaks to the bespoke nature of the product.
Post by: diqkiq on Fri, 26 August 2016, 09:53:42
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 26 August 2016, 17:17:46
So, yeah, I'd say it's probably best to have them re-make a sample for me on the Enigma Black finish by masking off those holes with a cylinder of masking tape inserted inside. I think that should work and should address the issue. And I'll add "no friggin' bulges" to my QA checklist.
Any thoughts on the other issues?
Incidentally, I agree about the machining marks on the back being kind of cool, but I forgot to mention that if we wait a couple of weeks the shop will have a new larger and more rigid mill coming online, which should eliminate or reduce these patterns. If I'm going to have to wait to get another wrinkle finish sample made, we might as well also have them use the bigger mill to eliminate these patterns and get a pattern-free finish.
Sigh.
I guess this is a good thing, in a sense, of enthusiast group buys. It makes things possible that require more patience than most commercial operations would possibly be wiling to endure. But I suppose I'm starting to see why most case group buys aren't done using powder coating. It makes some cool things possible that haven't been done before, but it also introduces a whole new set of design concerns that have to be worked around. But I'll figure it out—if it kills me. ;) The shop I'm working with comes its share of quirks and annoyances, but at least they're flexible and committed to working through this stuff with me. I have to say, if I were working with a shop in China (due mostly to my inadequacies as a speaker of Mandarin), all this back-and-forth would be impossible.
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 26 August 2016, 18:51:24
To be clear, I would consider the bulges a deal-breaker if they were anywhere but that back area. In the sample I got, it's only in that one spot on the back, and only as a result of the wrinkle finish bulk--it isn't present on the other colors. But it makes me worry about it not being on the back of all of the ones we get back in production but rather on one of the other alignment pins.
So, yeah, I'd say it's probably best to have them re-make a sample for me on the Enigma Black finish by masking off those holes with a cylinder of masking tape inserted inside. I think that should work and should address the issue. And I'll add "no friggin' bulges" to my QA checklist.
Any thoughts on the other issues?
Incidentally, I agree about the machining marks on the back being kind of cool, but I forgot to mention that if we wait a couple of weeks the shop will have a new larger and more rigid mill coming online, which should eliminate or reduce these patterns. If I'm going to have to wait to get another wrinkle finish sample made, we might as well also have them use the bigger mill to eliminate these patterns and get a pattern-free finish.
Sigh.
I guess this is a good thing, in a sense, of enthusiast group buys. It makes things possible that require more patience than most commercial operations would possibly be wiling to endure. But I suppose I'm starting to see why most case group buys aren't done using powder coating. It makes some cool things possible that haven't been done before, but it also introduces a whole new set of design concerns that have to be worked around. But I'll figure it out—if it kills me. ;) The shop I'm working with comes its share of quirks and annoyances, but at least they're flexible and committed to working through this stuff with me. I have to say, if I were working with a shop in China (due mostly to my inadequacies as a speaker of Mandarin), all this back-and-forth would be impossible.
norbauer, your photo links doesn't work for me, I saw the photos on my phone earlier, and wanted to go back for a closer look, but the photos are gone it seems.
I agree about the machining marks, they are a cool feature but it's not worth worrying about, they will never be seen. As I am not really sold on the wrinkle finish, I don't really have an opinion on that, but I would definitely appreciate having bumpons, as they help with getting the case to stay put, and also avoid scratching up the pretty surface.
Not too bothered about wating a bit more, just take the time and get it as close to perfection as you see fit :thumb:
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 26 August 2016, 19:07:17
Post by: McPwned on Fri, 26 August 2016, 19:43:18
That's weird. I'm on my phone now and also not seeing them. I'll upload them somewhere else when I get home. OneDrive isn't great when it comes to sharing images directly.Weird indeed - I saw the images this morning, but they're missing now.
Here's a concern about the wrinkle finish that just came to mind: on the stock case, SA caps only JUST fit along the edge, notably on the escape key. If you're saying that the wrinkle coat adds bulk, are tolerances between the edge of the case and the caps lower? Have you tried SA caps to make sure they fit without any rubbing? Thanks.
Post by: r5d on Sat, 27 August 2016, 04:57:57
I guess this is a good thing, in a sense, of enthusiast group buys. It makes things possible that require more patience than most commercial operations would possibly be wiling to endure. But I suppose I'm starting to see why most case group buys aren't done using powder coating. It makes some cool things possible that haven't been done before, but it also introduces a whole new set of design concerns that have to be worked around. But I'll figure it out—if it kills me. ;) The shop I'm working with comes its share of quirks and annoyances, but at least they're flexible and committed to working through this stuff with me. I have to say, if I were working with a shop in China (due mostly to my inadequacies as a speaker of Mandarin), all this back-and-forth would be impossible.
As someone who is definitely looking to get one or two of these cases, I appreciate your perfectionism a great deal. These things will be indestructible and touched and loved by enthusiasts as yourself. When it finally will stand on my desk, every time I will touch it I will think of you and this thread and your incredible attention to detail. I personally wouldn't be able to spend so much love, time and money on a project like this, and I think everyone who is looking to get one doesn't mind a few more weeks of waiting time. More time to save up and get that 2nd (or 3rd) one when it drops. :D
The powder coating especially is what makes this project stand out for me.
Post by: phinix on Mon, 29 August 2016, 08:49:35
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 01 September 2016, 00:56:08
Masking out holes and pins would help. I do a lot of powder coating and even a single layer of satin finish can add too much when it comes to small screw holes, threaded holes etc.
Yeah, I'm used to anodizing and the layer thickness with powder is much greater. I really like the finish, especially since so much other stuff is ano these days, but it does require some specific design accommodations.
I got the bumpons in from Mouser and indeed, the pockets for them are just a bit too small with the current powder coating thickness. I'll just redesign those a tiny bit to account for the powder thickness (especially on the wrinkle coat). The machine shop is currently running some test pieces for me to verify the new pocket sizing (without having to cut a whole new case).
And I'm just going to instruct the powder coating house to mask off those hole interiors from now on so the alignment pins aren't an issue. Another solution would be to thicken the bezel of the case, but as with the prior remark made by another member about the corners, I really want to try to avoid making the case much bigger than it needs to be—for purely visual aesthetic reasons. I think people appreciate a nice slim-profile case.
Also, I think I mentioned this previously, but the machine shop has a HUGE new Haas mill arriving in <3 weeks. The greater rigidity of that machine, along with a better facing mill he's ordering for us, should mean a perfectly smooth finish on the back of the cases. And he has promised me that we can be the first job that runs on that machine. :)
Post by: nateth on Thu, 01 September 2016, 01:07:42
Awesome job, this is one of the most thought-out and well designed cases I've ever witnessed.
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Thu, 01 September 2016, 02:55:12
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 01 September 2016, 04:07:42
I still can't see any of the recent images uploaded by OP.
Sorry about that. I updated the post above with links to files on DropBox rather than OneDrive. Did that work? It's hard for me to test because I'm actually seeing the images now; I can't figure out why the OneDrive links work in some browsers and not others.
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Thu, 01 September 2016, 05:15:21
I still can't see any of the recent images uploaded by OP.
Sorry about that. I updated the post above with links to files on DropBox rather than OneDrive. Did that work? It's hard for me to test because I'm actually seeing the images now; I can't figure out why the OneDrive links work in some browsers and not others.
Images in reply #410 are still broken but the ones in #423 work now.
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 01 September 2016, 05:24:36
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Thu, 01 September 2016, 06:06:21
Oops. I just updated those with Dropbox links as well. Everything should be working now. :)
Yup. These look great. I know you are busy and want to do a few more changes, but do you have any idea when we can expect the group buy to start? October?
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 01 September 2016, 07:17:23
Oops. I just updated those with Dropbox links as well. Everything should be working now. :)
Yup. These look great. I know you are busy and want to do a few more changes, but do you have any idea when we can expect the group buy to start? October?
Well, I'm actually sort of open to input on that. I want to do one more round of samples using the final production machine, tooling, CNC program, finishing process, etc.—just to make sure everything is perfect. Material has already been ordered and the ball is already rolling on that, but I don't technically have to wait for those to be finished to start the group buy. Assuming that we leave the ordering period open for a couple of weeks, I could theoretically start the group buy in 2 weeks or so while the final round of samples is being completed. I would just wait to send invoices and collect money until I'd actually gotten and shown pics of the final samples. Does this sound like a good approach? I've always done prior group buys either via Signature Plastics or MassDrop, never right here on GeekHack, so I'm open to suggestions on what seems to work best.
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 01 September 2016, 07:24:18
Oops. I just updated those with Dropbox links as well. Everything should be working now. :)
Yup. These look great. I know you are busy and want to do a few more changes, but do you have any idea when we can expect the group buy to start? October?
Well, I'm actually sort of open to input on that. I want to do one more round of samples using the final production machine, tooling, CNC program, finishing process, etc.—just to make sure everything is perfect. Material has already been ordered and the ball is already rolling on that, but I don't technically have to wait for those to be finished to start the group buy. Assuming that we leave the ordering period open for a couple of weeks, I could theoretically start the group buy in 2 weeks or so while the final round of samples is being completed. I would just wait to send invoices and collect money until I'd actually gotten and shown pics of the final samples. Does this sound like a good approach? I've always done prior group buys either via Signature Plastics or MassDrop, never right here on GeekHack, so I'm open to suggestions on what seems to work best.
Start of October would actually be better for me, but I know it's entirely your discretion!
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 01 September 2016, 15:37:51
End of production :-(
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 01 September 2016, 16:09:55
Too bad that the novatouch isn't available anymore.
End of production :-(
Oh man. Seriously? That sucks. I think I'm going to have to order a pile of them to stock up.
This case also fits the Rapid-i, for whatever it's worth.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 01 September 2016, 16:10:20
Too bad that the novatouch isn't available anymore.Oh dear, I didn't think about that. I mean it's available, but production has stopped.
End of production :-(
RIP anyone that was going to buy one for this.
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 01 September 2016, 16:15:15
Too bad that the novatouch isn't available anymore.
End of production :-(
Oh man. Seriously? That sucks. I think I'm going to have to order a pile of them to stock up.
This case also fits the Rapid-i, for whatever it's worth.
I really love that keyboard. I'm doing the same.
Post by: fax668 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 16:50:26
Post by: r5d on Fri, 02 September 2016, 03:06:11
They are still selling some refurbished ones at least in the Cooler Master EU store. Now is actually a good time to buy one at a discount.
Got my 2nd one, ISO this time! Thanks for the tip! Need to get 2 cases now for sure!
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 02 September 2016, 03:16:49
They are still selling some refurbished ones at least in the Cooler Master EU store. Now is actually a good time to buy one at a discount.
Could you link me? I had a look at their store page but it's showing as sold out
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 02 September 2016, 03:36:06
http://www.cmstore-usa.com/novatouch-tkl-barebone-genuine-topre-mx-compatible-stems/
Post by: fax668 on Fri, 02 September 2016, 04:02:14
I asked Cooler Master EU sales a month ago if they were expecting new shipments (I didn't know at the time that the Novatouch was EOLed). This was the response:
Quote
Officially the NovaTouch is end of life but for the online shop we will still get a few. At the moment however we don't know when yet.
I don't know if they were referring to the refurbished ISO keyboards that are available now.
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 02 September 2016, 04:19:07
The refurbished Novatouch US version is sold out in the EU store, the refurbished ISO version is available: http://www.cmstore.eu/spare-parts/refurbished/cooler-master-cm-storm-novatouch-tkl-iso-barebone/
I asked Cooler Master EU sales a month ago if they were expecting new shipments (I didn't know at the time that the Novatouch was EOLed). This was the response:QuoteOfficially the NovaTouch is end of life but for the online shop we will still get a few. At the moment however we don't know when yet.
I don't know if they were referring to the refurbished ISO keyboards that are available now.
Thank you for the link, I didn't realise refurbished ones are in a separate section from the main shop
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Fri, 02 September 2016, 06:34:57
Post by: codywanks on Fri, 02 September 2016, 11:34:41
Too bad that the novatouch isn't available anymore.
End of production :-(
That's the news I've been getting in my neck of the woods as well. The local distro is down to their final three units.
Post by: Saviant on Wed, 07 September 2016, 02:01:00
Post by: nateth on Sat, 10 September 2016, 19:49:06
Post by: Vigrith on Sat, 10 September 2016, 20:27:33
Too bad that the novatouch isn't available anymore.
End of production :-(
That's the news I've been getting in my neck of the woods as well. The local distro is down to their final three units.
Wow, really. That's sad news, I already own one and I like it a lot - it's definitely not the best topre around (I like my Leopold much better) but the fact it has key cap compatibility makes it so unique that it's a shame it's met end of production.
I wonder if they have a revamped version of it planned, don't really see the point in them fully discontinuing it if they don't.
Post by: fax668 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 14:58:57
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 11 September 2016, 15:21:08
Topre announced a new keyboard, the Realforce RGB, which is supposed to come with MX-compatible stems.
I have zero use for RGB lighting (if that's what it stands for), not a big fan of Realforce's layouts and oldschool style cases usually either - much rather HHKB or Leopold. That said, mx compatibility is huge, guess I'll have to wait and see how that turns out!
Post by: codywanks on Sun, 11 September 2016, 16:13:02
Wow, really. That's sad news, I already own one and I like it a lot - it's definitely not the best topre around (I like my Leopold much better) but the fact it has key cap compatibility makes it so unique that it's a shame it's met end of production.
I wonder if they have a revamped version of it planned, don't really see the point in them fully discontinuing it if they don't.
It would be a shame if CM and Topre stopped collaborating; I respect CM as a company as they are more in touch with the community & its needs compared to the other gaming brands.
It also doesn't hurt that the Novatouch (in my opinion) looks better than a RF87 while costing less money.
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 11 September 2016, 16:42:27
It would be a shame if CM and Topre stopped collaborating; I respect CM as a company as they are more in touch with the community & its needs compared to the other gaming brands.
It also doesn't hurt that the Novatouch (in my opinion) looks better than a RF87 while costing less money.
Yea CM is my favourite "gaming brand" for sure - and I love the Novatouch, not the best topre switches out there as I've said but the layout and case are great. Not perfect, but definitely 100 times better than Realforce's (not as good as Leopold but close); RF's just looks too retro and clunky nowadays, I'm used to sleek cases and all that.
That said I'm sure a lot of people love the RF looks and dislike Novatouch, that said no one can argue against CM's availability (especially in Europe considering how ruthless VAT is) as opposed to all the Asian brands, hopefully they keep collaborating with Topre!
Post by: Lepidus on Tue, 13 September 2016, 19:57:51
I received my Pro S this morning, and comparing it to my old Rapid-i I honestly couldn't find any difference. Well, the rubber material is different, but mold, size, screw places etc all seemed to be the same.
I could swap plates/pcbs just fine, and even combine top/bottom housing from the two different boards. Is there something I am not noticing?
Here some pics: http://imgur.com/a/NyeeN
Post by: nateth on Tue, 13 September 2016, 23:48:59
So, guys, why do you think Masterkeys wont fit this case?
I received my Pro S this morning, and comparing it to my old Rapid-i I honestly couldn't find any difference. Well, the rubber material is different, but mold, size, screw places etc all seemed to be the same.
I could swap plates/pcbs just fine, and even combine top/bottom housing from the two different boards. Is there something I am not noticing?
Here some pics: http://imgur.com/a/NyeeN
Awesome pics and research. I don't know that anyone definitively thought it wouldn't fit. I think it was assumed that they wouldn't be using the same tooling.
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 14 September 2016, 02:33:59
So, guys, why do you think Masterkeys wont fit this case?
I haven't yet had access to the tenkeyless Masterkeys case, so I haven't necessarily pronounced judgement on that one. I only checked the design of the larger Masterkeys.
The last time I checked the tenkeyless hadn't been released yet, but the Novatouch and tenkeyless Masterkeys look very similar. I'm happy to order one and try it out. Is the "Maserkeys Pro S RGB Small" the correct one?
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 14 September 2016, 02:48:50
So, guys, why do you think Masterkeys wont fit this case?
I haven't yet had access to the tenkeyless Masterkeys case, so I haven't necessarily pronounced judgement on that one. I only checked the design of the larger Masterkeys.
The last time I checked the tenkeyless hadn't been released yet, but the Novatouch and tenkeyless Masterkeys look very similar. I'm happy to order one and try it out. Is the "Maserkeys Pro S RGB Small" the correct one?
That's the one!
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 14 September 2016, 04:02:05
If you're serious about getting a case, please fill out this survey, as it will strongly inform my next steps. Consider it a way of registering your continued interest (if any)! :)
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Wed, 14 September 2016, 05:07:20
Hey guys. I know that, partly due to my cross-country move and partly due to delays at the factory, this IC has been taking a long time to to turn into a GB and has had all sorts of confusing course changes. Now that I have some time, I wanted to step back and get some better feedback.
If you're serious about getting a case, please fill out this survey, as it will strongly inform my next steps. Consider it a way of registering your continued interest (if any)! :)
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8
So anodized finish is still not off the table completely?
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 14 September 2016, 05:19:22
So anodized finish is still not off the table completely?
I'm doing this for all of us, so nothing is really off the table completely if people feel strongly enough. :) As with most things in manufacturing, though, there are always trade-offs of ano vs powder.
That is why I wanted to do a more proper survey (reminder: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8), since it's hard to tell how the majority of people feels just going by random forum replies and that color survey we did a while ago.
Post by: McPwned on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:02:40
If you're serious about getting a case, please fill out this survey, as it will strongly inform my next steps. Consider it a way of registering your continued interest (if any)! :)
I've filled out the form, though I have a couple comments:
1) I put that I would only be satisfied with Enigma Black, but that's only half-true as there are other colours I would probably get if it wasn't available; however, I would not get just any colour (mint green? No thanks).
2) Did you see my previous comment about Enigma Black and SA caps? Is there any concern of rubbing against the edges?
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:11:41
Did you see my previous comment about Enigma Black and SA caps? Is there any concern of rubbing against the edges?
Sorry. That may have been during the period when I was moving and wasn't able to keep up with the flurry of posts very well. I actually don't have any SA caps at my disposal at the moment. I do have some DSA caps (my Galaxy Class set design), however, and I just tested them and they do not rub against the case when installed in the Enigma black version. If you want to send me a 1u SA key temporarily, I'd be happy to test it out with that profile.
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:13:40
So, guys, why do you think Masterkeys wont fit this case?
I just ordered one of these. It arrives Friday. I'll let you know if it fits. :)
Post by: fax668 on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:37:09
1) I put that I would only be satisfied with Enigma Black, but that's only half-true as there are other colours I would probably get if it wasn't available; however, I would not get just any colour (mint green? No thanks).Similar thing here. I put that I would only be satisfied with white but my actual preference would be clear anodized, then white, then (light) gray. I am not interested in black/red/green/blue or variations thereof.
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:53:18
So anodized finish is still not off the table completely?
I'm doing this for all of us, so nothing is really off the table completely if people feel strongly enough. :) As with most things in manufacturing, though, there are always trade-offs of ano vs powder.
That is why I wanted to do a more proper survey (reminder: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8), since it's hard to tell how the majority of people feels just going by random forum replies and that color survey we did a while ago.
Cool. I'm up for anything really but I think most of us will agree that Anodized would be preferable (if you can find a partner that can do it well). Im willing to continue waiting and pay more if needed. Voted in poll.
Post by: axtran on Wed, 14 September 2016, 11:28:26
Post by: WarCommand on Wed, 14 September 2016, 11:32:36
Post by: Butter on Wed, 14 September 2016, 12:03:47
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 14 September 2016, 15:58:52
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8
Post by: evangs on Wed, 14 September 2016, 16:02:30
Thanks, everybody. There are 16 replies so far. Please keep them coming in. ;D
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8
done, thanks!
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 14 September 2016, 16:17:19
Also, the fact that this case might fit a Masterkeys S will surely boost its appeal. :thumb:
@norbauer: I've got some SA caps lying around from a grab bag. I can send them to you if it's useful for testing. Let me know if you'd like them. Just a random couple of caps, nothing really special, but they are SA profile
Post by: eksuen on Wed, 14 September 2016, 16:35:19
I actually don't have any SA caps at my disposal at the moment. I do have some DSA caps (my Galaxy Class set design), however, and I just tested them and they do not rub against the case when installed in the Enigma black version. If you want to send me a 1u SA key temporarily, I'd be happy to test it out with that profile.
You moved to Silicon Valley, yeah? I live in the South Bay. I have a set of Carbon SA if you want to test it with a complete set.
Post by: WarCommand on Wed, 14 September 2016, 19:21:48
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 14 September 2016, 21:52:01
I'll give it another day or so and then share the results. Some really interesting feedback so far!
Post by: Saviant on Thu, 15 September 2016, 08:35:31
Post by: the_marsbar on Sat, 17 September 2016, 07:22:26
Post by: poolside on Sun, 18 September 2016, 14:07:04
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 18 September 2016, 19:23:52
I might be in for a space white case. I skimmed quickly through the thread but could not find the diameter of the threaded holes of the screw-in feet. Will they be 4mm?
They are actually M5x0.5. Is 4mm some kind of standard threading for case feet? I could reduce the threading to 4mm threads pretty easily, though that seems like it would maybe make the threaded stems a little flimsy. But if that would make the case compatible with other feet available, it would probably be worth the change.
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 18 September 2016, 19:24:12
Post by: WNovizar on Sun, 18 September 2016, 19:50:45
Thanks, guys. Replies are still coming in pretty actively (please do if you haven't already: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8), so I'll hold off another day or so before sharing the conclusions of the survey.I might be in for a space white case. I skimmed quickly through the thread but could not find the diameter of the threaded holes of the screw-in feet. Will they be 4mm?
They are actually M5x0.5. Is 4mm some kind of standard threading for case feet? I could reduce the threading to 4mm threads pretty easily, though that seems like it would maybe make the threaded stems a little flimsy. But if that would make the case compatible with other feet available, it would probably be worth the change.
Hi, I just filled your form. Just in case, I chose to china manufacturing, because it's nearer to my country, which means lower cost, lower import tax, and comparable results. However, I will still support you even if you choose USA manufacturing. Thanks
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 19 September 2016, 02:27:28
Right now, more than 50% of survey respondents appear to be outside the USA. I have now shipped two of these cases outside of the US (one to Europe and another Asia) and I have found that USPS Priority Mail International in both instances cost around $50, with First Class International being only a few dollars less. The package is nearly 4 pounds and roughly 19x9x5 inches.
Does anybody know of a less expensive way of shipping these that still provides delivery confirmation? A fair number of international respondents said that $50 shipping costs would make them reconsider buying. Does anybody have any suggestions for how to handle or address this?
Post by: Mrs. Butter on Mon, 19 September 2016, 02:56:32
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Mon, 19 September 2016, 09:06:31
I will provide some more info from the survey results soon, but I have identified one potential area of particular concern I thought I should mention now.
Right now, more than 50% of survey respondents appear to be outside the USA. I have now shipped two of these cases outside of the US (one to Europe and another Asia) and I have found that USPS Priority Mail International in both instances cost around $50, with First Class International being only a few dollars less. The package is nearly 4 pounds and roughly 19x9x5 inches.
Does anybody know of a less expensive way of shipping these that still provides delivery confirmation? A fair number of international respondents said that $50 shipping costs would make them reconsider buying. Does anybody have any suggestions for how to handle or address this?
I doubt you'll find anything cheaper. Even if you did I would much rather prefer to have it sent by USPS.
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Mon, 19 September 2016, 11:46:20
Post by: MarvinMerlin on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:15:34
Post by: fax668 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:21:43
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:29:46
The last time I looked into shipping from the US, USPS was the cheapest feasible option for non-commercial customers. Frankly, after all the import duties and VAT, the 50 $ for shipping are the least of my concerns... :cool:
Concerning taxes, I'm going to list these at a value of around $45 when I ship internationally rather than the price paid. I think this is totally legit because the only reason these cost so much is that they're being made in a very small volume as effectively custom pieces, so we're really paying most of that money for professional and machining services. If you look at the cost of materials and what these would cost if they were made at large scale as normal consumer products, I think $45 is a totally valid and defensible amount to list for customs purposes. I think this will keep us out of trouble (versus listing these as "gifts" with a value of $1 or something), but without folks having to pay needlessly exorbitant import duties.
Post by: fax668 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:41:43
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Mon, 19 September 2016, 19:42:43
This is the case only right? I would still need a standard CM Novatouch tenkeyless to swap into this?
Would it function fine without the top half of the casing? I really like the way it looks here in the attached image from OP but would be curious if there are any unintuitive reasons that it wouldn't function well like this
Post by: eksuen on Mon, 19 September 2016, 21:05:23
I'm still learning Mechanical Keyboards, so bear with me on the dumb questions:
This is the case only right? I would still need a standard CM Novatouch tenkeyless to swap into this?
Yes, this is for the case only. You'd still need to purchase a Novatouch or Rapid-i separately. Note that the Novatouch is now a discontinued product. There is remaining stock floating around various vendor inventories, but quantities are only going to decrease.
Post by: McPwned on Tue, 20 September 2016, 21:58:45
The last time I looked into shipping from the US, USPS was the cheapest feasible option for non-commercial customers. Frankly, after all the import duties and VAT, the 50 $ for shipping are the least of my concerns... :cool:
Concerning taxes, I'm going to list these at a value of around $45 when I ship internationally rather than the price paid. I think this is totally legit because the only reason these cost so much is that they're being made in a very small volume as effectively custom pieces, so we're really paying most of that money for professional and machining services. If you look at the cost of materials and what these would cost if they were made at large scale as normal consumer products, I think $45 is a totally valid and defensible amount to list for customs purposes. I think this will keep us out of trouble (versus listing these as "gifts" with a value of $1 or something), but without folks having to pay needlessly exorbitant import duties.
Regarding shipping to Canada, using USPS is generally the superior choice as the couriers tend to hit us with big COD charges (UPS especially).
Post by: grav3serker on Wed, 21 September 2016, 01:37:06
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 21 September 2016, 03:09:59
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/dsa.png)
Post by: bubbedi on Wed, 21 September 2016, 04:53:36
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: derzemel on Wed, 21 September 2016, 04:56:46
We need more porn, an normal porn is too bland
Sent from fat fingers on small screen...
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 22 September 2016, 20:41:38
https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-62V2WSLX/
Main conclusions I'm drawing are:
- powder coating seems fine but a significant contingent would love to see anodizing added also
- best anodizing color to offer would be gray
- people don't seem to care too much whether it comes from China or the USA, though a fair number appreciate trying to get it done here in the US if possible
I'm also concerned that a decent contingent of non-USA buyers said that the $50 or so shipping cost might be a deal-breaker, since the general feedback seems to be that USPS Priority is the best option and that tends to be around $50 for a 4-pound box to most overseas destinations. I don't think there is much I can do about this one, unfortunately. I was also shocked by how much these cost to ship abroad.
Good news is that 85 people have responded so far. If we hit anything close to these numbers, I can at least say that the project will be possible from a financial perspective (anything below 25 or so and the unit price is so high as to be prohibitive).
So here is my plan, based on the above: wait the one more week or so for the USA shop's new fancy mill to be online and running and get those updated samples with larger bumpon recesses from him to account for the unusually thick powder coat layer on the wrinkle coat. I'm also going to have him make a second ample to test anodizing with the new higher-grade aluminum. If the anodizing doesn't work out, I may end up ordering some anodized ones from my China shop and the powder ones from here in the USA (price works out to be roughly the same, so long as we are above a quantity of 25 for each finish). In ano works out and the final powder samples come back satisfactory, I'll get both from the USA shop.
So my goal would be to offer these options: gray anodized, Space Station white (powder), and Enigma Black (powder, wrinkle). I'll keep poking along, trying to nudge things as fast as I can.
Post by: nateth on Thu, 22 September 2016, 21:17:54
Post by: McPwned on Thu, 22 September 2016, 23:33:58
eksuen and I had a little mini GeekHack convention this evening at Blue Bottle in Palo Alto. Thanks to his lending me his carbon keycaps, I can now confirm that SA keycaps fit on even the wrinkle coat cases. :)
Thanks to you both for checking into this!
Post by: Butter on Fri, 23 September 2016, 00:06:12
Post by: the_marsbar on Fri, 23 September 2016, 03:25:44
Post by: r5d on Fri, 23 September 2016, 05:51:33
Concerning taxes, I'm going to list these at a value of around $45 when I ship internationally rather than the price paid. I think this is totally legit because the only reason these cost so much is that they're being made in a very small volume as effectively custom pieces, so we're really paying most of that money for professional and machining services. If you look at the cost of materials and what these would cost if they were made at large scale as normal consumer products, I think $45 is a totally valid and defensible amount to list for customs purposes. I think this will keep us out of trouble (versus listing these as "gifts" with a value of $1 or something), but without folks having to pay needlessly exorbitant import duties.
If this will be possible at all, please make it so. However if you mark them with this value, the real value can't be anywhere ON or IN the shipment (no physical invoice as well) as the shipment may be opened officially. I regularly have to go the customs office and open my packages in attendance of customs officials, who will look at invoices and all included documents to determine sale value (including shipping costs) as that is the only value that counts for customs tax purposes here.
If this will still be run through Massdrop, it will be marked with the real sale value for sure. Or would you send international orders yourself?
Post by: K on Fri, 23 September 2016, 19:44:36
Post by: grav3serker on Mon, 26 September 2016, 01:13:35
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Post by: AskAJedi on Mon, 26 September 2016, 07:01:59
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Rageous on Mon, 26 September 2016, 13:53:24
Post by: Nickjames on Wed, 28 September 2016, 08:32:29
Post by: codywanks on Fri, 30 September 2016, 00:01:00
Am in the midst of compiling a list of comments and observations, but here's a teaser pic for now:
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo206/vulcanxxx/Computer%20Parts/Mechanical%20Keyboards/CM%20Storm%20Novatouch/casebox_t_zpsuiiwucmf.jpg)
(full size) (http://imgur.com/uzE5rmM)
I promise to post more pictures over the coming days!
Post by: derzemel on Fri, 30 September 2016, 00:41:12
Sent from fat fingers on small screen...
Post by: codywanks on Fri, 30 September 2016, 04:31:58
OMG, pleas upload an image on Imgur or anywhere else. Photobucket is the worst mobile site I have ever seen
Sent from fat fingers on small screen...
Fixed
Post by: derzemel on Fri, 30 September 2016, 04:40:53
OMG, pleas upload an image on Imgur or anywhere else. Photobucket is the worst mobile site I have ever seen
Sent from fat fingers on small screen...
Fixed
thank you very much! ;D
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Fri, 30 September 2016, 04:53:02
Just received the grey powder coated prototype case from Ryan ;D
Am in the midst of compiling a list of comments and observations, but here's a teaser pic for now:Show Image(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo206/vulcanxxx/Computer%20Parts/Mechanical%20Keyboards/CM%20Storm%20Novatouch/casebox_t_zpsuiiwucmf.jpg)
(full size) (http://imgur.com/uzE5rmM)
I promise to post more pictures over the coming days!
Judging by that pic i really hope he the final product will be Anodized.
Post by: codywanks on Fri, 30 September 2016, 05:05:28
Judging by that pic i really hope he the final product will be Anodized.
Hmm. My colleagues/fellow keyboard enthusiasts that I've shown it to are not too keen on the powder coat either.
I'm perfectly happy with the look of the dark grey powder coat on this, but I have to admit it's somewhat fueling my desire to get a second, anodized one. Fingers crossed it'll be made available.
...so my goal would be to offer these options: gray anodized, Space Station white (powder), and Enigma Black (powder, wrinkle). I'll keep poking along, trying to nudge things as fast as I can.
On an unrelated note, is anybody interested in buying a kidney...?
Post by: fax668 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 05:30:03
Post by: Mike89914 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 09:26:29
Reminder if you're just landing on this post, please fill out this survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8So, guys, why do you think Masterkeys wont fit this case?
I just ordered one of these. It arrives Friday. I'll let you know if it fits. :)
I'm waiting on this update to see if I can join or not!
Thanks!
Post by: phinix on Sat, 01 October 2016, 07:53:20
Or go with graony enigma, best look in my opinion.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 03 October 2016, 03:14:54
Thanks to codywanks for posting the photo and for the feedback he recently sent me on some possible design tweaks. Those will be incorporated into the forthcoming new prototype.
I hope to still be able to offer some powder options as well, but it seems like more people want ano than I had previously appreciated before the poll, so I felt like I should probably explore that option in earnest, and the US shop just totally disappointed me in being able to provide ano samples with consistent quality. All the other other places I've gotten to quote this in the US have all quoted me at above $400 (in some cases, well above) just to make the parts. So China seems like the best option if we need ano and don't want to pay a fortune. This shop always meets its lead times in my experience, so I should have a new gray anodized prototype soon.
Post by: Rageous on Mon, 03 October 2016, 07:21:47
Post by: nateth on Mon, 03 October 2016, 09:53:25
Post by: elcubismo on Wed, 05 October 2016, 16:10:04
Would it function fine without the top half of the casing? I really like the way it looks here in the attached image from OP but would be curious if there are any unintuitive reasons that it wouldn't function well like this
This. I really like how it looks also. Could there be a cost decrease if we only get the bottom half?
Post by: arhetue on Wed, 05 October 2016, 19:20:34
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 07 October 2016, 01:24:35
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/masterkeys-1.jpg)
So that means this case can be used with the Novatouch, Rapid-i, and Masterkeys TKL.
Post by: WNovizar on Fri, 07 October 2016, 01:46:30
Hey guys, great news to report: the Masterkeys TKL fits inside this case perfectly! Here it is inside my anodized prototype, which is the closest to the one currently being made.Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/masterkeys-1.jpg)
So that means this case can be used with the Novatouch, Rapid-i, and Masterkeys TKL.
Cool beans. Can't wait for the GB!!
Post by: fax668 on Fri, 07 October 2016, 03:16:28
Post by: r5d on Fri, 07 October 2016, 05:31:33
Hey guys, great news to report: the Masterkeys TKL fits inside this case perfectly! Here it is inside my anodized prototype, which is the closest to the one currently being made.
So that means this case can be used with the Novatouch, Rapid-i, and Masterkeys TKL.
Great news! Maybe adjust the title to reflect this for garnering more interest?
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 07 October 2016, 10:06:46
Hey guys, great news to report: the Masterkeys TKL fits inside this case perfectly! Here it is inside my anodized prototype, which is the closest to the one currently being made.
So that means this case can be used with the Novatouch, Rapid-i, and Masterkeys TKL.
Great news! Maybe adjust the title to reflect this for garnering more interest?
Already did. :)
Post by: nateth on Fri, 07 October 2016, 10:09:41
Post by: Phenix on Fri, 07 October 2016, 10:16:27
what is better for the long shot in daily usage? (letting the "color options" aside)
anodized or powdercoated
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 07 October 2016, 10:21:22
So is this anodized only now? Is there not enough interest in the power coat cases to warrant that option?
My hope is to do both. However, manufacturing of the powder cases has been dragging on and on at the US shop and I'm getting a little impatient. Given that there seems to be more interest in the anodizing anyway, I figured it would be best to trudge forward with that option, but I continue to work both fronts in parallel. If one is available first (almost certainly ano), I may just proceed and do that as a group buy first and then do a follow-up group of buy powder options after the ano cases ship. That could also work out nicely since there were some people who said they'd only have the money to buy a case soon and others said they would want to participate in the buy but would want to wait more than a month. This would give them two opportunities.
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 07 October 2016, 10:31:18
can someone tell me in short:
what is better for the long shot in daily usage? (letting the "color options" aside)
anodized or powdercoated
Having used both fairly extensively, I can't say that there is much of a difference in terms of functional use. But here are my observations of the differences generally in terms of functional considerations.
The powder coating finishes that don't have a texture (i.e., the gray and white ones I've shown so far) do tend to acquire--or at least show--small scratches more readily. I think that the oxidized layer generated by anodizing is indeed probably harder than a powder coat paint layer, so that makes sense. But the engima black (wrinkle) finish doesn't show scratches at all due to its matte finish and texture. (Maybe they're still there, but you'd never notice them unless you gouged it so deep as to expose the raw aluminum underneath.)
Another slight downside to powder is that the finish is a little uneven compared to anodizing (which is grown uniformly over the entire surface using a physical/chemical process). This means that fits between edges are a little less crisp and in some cases the bumpon recesses may be a little too small for the bumpons they are designed to accommodate, or other fits between parts may be tight in areas where more powder accumulated than others. I have updated the design for the powder cases to be a little different to account for these tolerance issues, so it shouldn't be a major concern on the production cases. But it certainly has been a pain to me thus far, as it means I've had to develop completely different designs for the two finish options, which has made keeping changes in sync across the two versions a bit of a nightmare. ;)
Post by: nateth on Fri, 07 October 2016, 10:34:21
My hope is to do both. However, manufacturing of the powder cases has been dragging on and on at the US shop and I'm getting a little impatient. Given that there seems to be more interest in the anodizing anyway, I figured it would be best to trudge forward with that option, but I continue to work both fronts in parallel. If one is available first (almost certainly ano), I may just proceed and do that as a group buy first and then do a follow-up group of buy powder options after the ano cases ship. That could also work out nicely since there were some people who said they'd only have the money to buy a case soon and others said they would want to participate in the buy but would want to wait more than a month. This would give them two opportunities.
Thant makes sense. Thanks for the info!
Post by: Mike89914 on Fri, 07 October 2016, 10:54:41
Hey guys, great news to report: the Masterkeys TKL fits inside this case perfectly! Here it is inside my anodized prototype, which is the closest to the one currently being made.
So that means this case can be used with the Novatouch, Rapid-i, and Masterkeys TKL.
Great news! Maybe adjust the title to reflect this for garnering more interest?
Already did. :)
As promised when the masterkey fits.
TAKE
MY
MONEY
Thanks!
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 07 October 2016, 11:00:08
As promised when the masterkey fits.
TAKE
MY
MONEY
Thanks!
lol. I should have the gray ano prototype in less than two weeks and I hope to be able to do just that shortly thereafter. Glad you're pleased! :)
I think the case looks pretty swank with the LED glow from the Masterkeys myself and am very happy that it fits. It seems that CM has converged on a single design for their TKL boards, which surely saves them a ton in tooling costs (and us too!)
Post by: eksuen on Fri, 07 October 2016, 13:30:15
Post by: Pinecone on Fri, 07 October 2016, 14:03:51
Will this be compatible with the QFR?
Post by: McPwned on Fri, 07 October 2016, 17:50:12
So is this anodized only now? Is there not enough interest in the power coat cases to warrant that option?
My hope is to do both. However, manufacturing of the powder cases has been dragging on and on at the US shop and I'm getting a little impatient. Given that there seems to be more interest in the anodizing anyway, I figured it would be best to trudge forward with that option, but I continue to work both fronts in parallel. If one is available first (almost certainly ano), I may just proceed and do that as a group buy first and then do a follow-up group of buy powder options after the ano cases ship. That could also work out nicely since there were some people who said they'd only have the money to buy a case soon and others said they would want to participate in the buy but would want to wait more than a month. This would give them two opportunities.
I really like the Enigma Black - I hope everything ends up satisfactory!
Post by: Jumie on Sat, 08 October 2016, 05:36:50
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Sat, 08 October 2016, 09:56:15
Is it compatible also for filco mj2?
No, but this one is: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=280
Post by: complex on Sun, 09 October 2016, 15:06:45
This would fit on a ISO Novatouch, right?
Post by: K on Sun, 09 October 2016, 16:07:57
This is kind of a stupid question but I would rather be safe than sorry :D
This would fit on a ISO Novatouch, right?
Well both ANSI and ISO layouts are the same size rectangles so its safe to say they would fit :) It would only not work if the case had dividers between them for the keys which I don't think any keyboard case has.
Post by: Reckless5040 on Sun, 09 October 2016, 20:05:48
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 10 October 2016, 20:10:55
We still looking at a $200 price point?
Yup. That's still the plan.
Post by: Rageous on Tue, 11 October 2016, 13:42:02
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 12:07:20
If it does fit, I'm buying the Aluminum case regardless of shipping cost.
Post by: fublamchu on Wed, 12 October 2016, 13:07:53
Can it fit Ducky One TKL RGB? http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/page-"?en/One-TKL-RGB-version/ (http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/page-"?en/One-TKL-RGB-version/)
If it does fit, I'm buying the Aluminum case regardless of shipping cost.
Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Post by: Charlie.Mike25 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 17:12:37
I can't say I am committing to this right now, but my votes were cast and depending on the Massdrop price for this, I may or may not spring for this, but, nevertheless, awesome job and the best of luck.
Post by: grossvogel on Fri, 14 October 2016, 10:55:05
Post by: usopia on Fri, 14 October 2016, 17:23:09
no, QF Rapid is completely different to Rapid-i, Novatouch and Masterkeys TKL.
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 04:13:53
Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Bummer, ducky is the only company I can trust with comes to RGB as it always uses high quality components and PCB which is very rare this days. Well at least there is Novatouch.
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 04:15:10
Pretty please?
Post by: fublamchu on Sat, 15 October 2016, 14:01:49
Norbauer, could you upload sound/video typing recording of the novatouch with Aluminum case and stock case?
Pretty please?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: wodan on Sat, 15 October 2016, 14:40:26
Post by: duynguyenle on Sat, 15 October 2016, 17:01:34
Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Bummer, ducky is the only company I can trust with comes to RGB as it always uses high quality components and PCB which is very rare this days. Well at least there is Novatouch.
Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 04:58:24
Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Bummer, ducky is the only company I can trust with comes to RGB as it always uses high quality components and PCB which is very rare this days. Well at least there is Novatouch.
Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
That is a false statement. According to review and teardown of Masterkeys Pro S, it has very sloppy soldering and poor PCB quality
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/cooler-master-masterkeys-pro-s-t13296.html
(http://i.imgur.com/d6HZrcS.jpg)
Post by: wodan on Sun, 16 October 2016, 05:07:12
Quote from: CM Bram
As you know we are working/worked on a few things (as since you have a pre-release sample)
Wouldn't bet the retail versions have the same bad soldering quality.
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 07:52:39
The model matt3o had for review was a pre-release sample:Quote from: CM BramAs you know we are working/worked on a few things (as since you have a pre-release sample)
Wouldn't bet the retail versions have the same bad soldering quality.
I aware of that, but until a reviewer upload with post production version of it, I going stick with what it has been presented by matt3o. I'm just playing save.
CM keyboards are used to be made in Taiwan, so there are some reinsurance in that, however the recent MasterKeys are made in china.
I used to own QFR: limted edition(decent keyboard) but swap to "Ducky One" due to heavier solid build, and the keys on ducky does not rattle as much.
CM QFR is still good, but I prefer heavier solid build.
I'm not dissing China workers or their QC, They can be very skillful, especially when comes to specialty request in small amounts and they are paid decently for it. My custom PC tabletop with engraving is made by them.
But when comes to mass productions and reducing cost as much as possible(apply on worker's salary as well).... I have my doubts and skepticism
Post by: codywanks on Sun, 16 October 2016, 08:56:17
Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
That is a false statement. According to review and teardown of Masterkeys Pro S, it has very sloppy soldering and poor PCB quality
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/cooler-master-masterkeys-pro-s-t13296.html
Read carefully: Nguyen said the RGB lighting is better than Ducky (which I definitely agree with). Nguyen did not say anything about the soldering job or PCB quality.
FWIW, the soldering on my Masterkeys S was neat and consistent. I would post a pic had I not already desoldered & harvested the MX RGB switches.
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 11:43:58
Why would you do that, when you can turn off the LEDs?Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
That is a false statement. According to review and teardown of Masterkeys Pro S, it has very sloppy soldering and poor PCB quality
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/cooler-master-masterkeys-pro-s-t13296.html
Read carefully: Nguyen said the RGB lighting is better than Ducky (which I definitely agree with). Nguyen did not say anything about the soldering job or PCB quality.
FWIW, the soldering on my Masterkeys S was neat and consistent. I would post a pic had I not already desoldered & harvested the MX RGB switches.
Forgive me but I find it odd when you buy better LEDs at Ebay cheaply, desoldering LEDs is not impossible but it requires a lot of effort and time.
Unless you are telling me that those are the Best and rarest LEDs, while its impossible or extremely expensive to find it on the market that at that present time.
For as comparing the LEDs I can't see the difference when both are adjusted at brightest. Razer has the best RGB contrast.
Anyway I prefer keyboards that focus on quality build and foundation, LEDs are secondary(but not last). If I do want the best RGB light, I would go for Razer Chroma.
I think we have derailed to much from the main subject.
Back to main subject,
Thanks fublamchu for that video(it kinda sway me into buying it), and now I want to know how it truly sounds with full aluminum housing,
Bought a novatouch didn't like the rattle(sits at my office atm) and brought a realforce 87u 55g, love the solid feels.
But novatouch sounds like it improved with just the top aluminum casing which why I'm intreat to know what it's like with full aluminum housing.
Post by: Phenix on Sun, 16 October 2016, 12:00:24
once
-hyperspgrered/dental banded
-lubed stabs
Post by: codywanks on Sun, 16 October 2016, 12:11:13
FWIW, the soldering on my Masterkeys S was neat and consistent. I would post a pic had I not already desoldered & harvested the MX RGB switches.
Why would you do that, when you can turn off the LEDs?
Forgive me but I find it odd when you buy better LEDs at Ebay cheaply, desoldering LEDs is not impossible but it requires a lot of effort and time.
Unless you are telling me that those are the Best and rarest LEDs, while its impossible or extremely expensive to find it on the market that at that present time.
For as comparing the LEDs I can't see the difference when both are adjusted at brightest. Razer has the best RGB contrast.
Anyway I prefer keyboards that focus on quality build and foundation, LEDs are secondary(but not last). If I do want the best RGB light, I would go for Razer Chroma.
Err what?
I desoldered the MX RGB switches for a future project.
I did not desolder any LEDs, nor do I need them. Not sure why you thought I desoldered the LEDs.
And yes, you can desolder the MX RGB switches without touching the RGB SMD LEDs.
Post by: codywanks on Sun, 16 October 2016, 12:12:21
Novatouch sounds better than an stock Realforce
once
-hyperspgrered/dental banded
-lubed stabs
Hi Phenix. Nice to meet a fellow rabbit
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 12:41:50
FWIW, the soldering on my Masterkeys S was neat and consistent. I would post a pic had I not already desoldered & harvested the MX RGB switches.
Why would you do that, when you can turn off the LEDs?
Forgive me but I find it odd when you buy better LEDs at Ebay cheaply, desoldering LEDs is not impossible but it requires a lot of effort and time.
Unless you are telling me that those are the Best and rarest LEDs, while its impossible or extremely expensive to find it on the market that at that present time.
For as comparing the LEDs I can't see the difference when both are adjusted at brightest. Razer has the best RGB contrast.
Anyway I prefer keyboards that focus on quality build and foundation, LEDs are secondary(but not last). If I do want the best RGB light, I would go for Razer Chroma.
Err what?
I desoldered the MX RGB switches for a future project.
I did not desolder any LEDs, nor do I need them. Not sure why you thought I desoldered the LEDs.
And yes, you can desolder the MX RGB switches without touching the RGB SMD LEDs.
Sorry my bad, You gave the impression that you desolder the LEDs
btw can you upload the the pictures of the areas that you haven't desoider yet?
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 12:46:04
Novatouch sounds better than an stock RealforceDoesn't the same apply to to realforce?
once
-hyperspgrered/dental banded
-lubed stabs
And Realforce would be better then novatouch if follow suit?
Post by: Phenix on Sun, 16 October 2016, 16:34:24
maybe. I did not tested that.Novatouch sounds better than an stock RealforceDoesn't the same apply to to realforce?
once
-hyperspgrered/dental banded
-lubed stabs
And Realforce would be better then novatouch if follow suit?
but the novatouch-s sounds alright to me, so I dont want to change something more. (and besides that: MX compatible)
-just want the metal case and QMK
Post by: duynguyenle on Sun, 16 October 2016, 18:26:09
Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Bummer, ducky is the only company I can trust with comes to RGB as it always uses high quality components and PCB which is very rare this days. Well at least there is Novatouch.
Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
That is a false statement. According to review and teardown of Masterkeys Pro S, it has very sloppy soldering and poor PCB quality
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/cooler-master-masterkeys-pro-s-t13296.htmlShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/d6HZrcS.jpg)
Well... I wasn't even making a comment about the build quality, but I don't want to be seen as a liar or providing false information, so I went and dug out my Masterkeys Pro L (I don't have a Pro S) and broke a fingernail or two getting it opened up (on the bright side, it lets me comment about the contruction of the case, and that is pretty solid, plenty of clips holding the top cover to the bottom assembly).
Once inside, I inspected the backside of the PCB and the quality of the solder joints. There are some flux residue which is to be expected, but absolutely no sign of sloppy solder job or bad joints anywhere. I guess you should have read the review fully where Matteo commented that the samples he got was a pre-preduction engineering samples and sent his feedback to Cooler Master. Also notice the black production PCB compared to the green PCB on the pre production sample. Also notice the solid steel top plate, which was painted white to help with RGB lighting, and both top and bottom edges has been folded over to improve bending and flexural stiffness along the y and y-z axes of the keyboard.
Overall, I stand by my comment earlier that the RGB on the Masterkeys is vastly superior to the Ducky RGB and Shine series, and now that I've seen inside the keyboard, I can confirm that the build quality is excellent too. Just as good if not slightly better than my Ducky One
I don't know why I'm even arguing, it's far too late and I need some sleep, guess I just got riled up when a random stranger on the internet calls me a liar.
Peace peeps, I'm off to bed.
(http://i.imgur.com/DKG7IoD.jpg)
Post by: Gajible on Sun, 16 October 2016, 19:09:25
Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Bummer, ducky is the only company I can trust with comes to RGB as it always uses high quality components and PCB which is very rare this days. Well at least there is Novatouch.
Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
That is a false statement. According to review and teardown of Masterkeys Pro S, it has very sloppy soldering and poor PCB quality
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/cooler-master-masterkeys-pro-s-t13296.htmlShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/d6HZrcS.jpg)
Well... I wasn't even making a comment about the build quality, but I don't want to be seen as a liar or providing false information, so I went and dug out my Masterkeys Pro L (I don't have a Pro S) and broke a fingernail or two getting it opened up (on the bright side, it lets me comment about the contruction of the case, and that is pretty solid, plenty of clips holding the top cover to the bottom assembly).
Once inside, I inspected the backside of the PCB and the quality of the solder joints. There are some flux residue which is to be expected, but absolutely no sign of sloppy solder job or bad joints anywhere. I guess you should have read the review fully where Matteo commented that the samples he got was a pre-preduction engineering samples and sent his feedback to Cooler Master. Also notice the black production PCB compared to the green PCB on the pre production sample. Also notice the solid steel top plate, which was painted white to help with RGB lighting, and both top and bottom edges has been folded over to improve bending and flexural stiffness along the y and y-z axes of the keyboard.
Overall, I stand by my comment earlier that the RGB on the Masterkeys is vastly superior to the Ducky RGB and Shine series, and now that I've seen inside the keyboard, I can confirm that the build quality is excellent too. Just as good if not slightly better than my Ducky One
I don't know why I'm even arguing, it's far too late and I need some sleep, guess I just got riled up when a random stranger on the internet calls me a liar.
Peace peeps, I'm off to bed.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DKG7IoD.jpg)
I'm digging the keyboard science, but I'm especially digging the pajama pants!
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 21:00:28
You and me bothmaybe. I did not tested that.Novatouch sounds better than an stock RealforceDoesn't the same apply to to realforce?
once
-hyperspgrered/dental banded
-lubed stabs
And Realforce would be better then novatouch if follow suit?
but the novatouch-s sounds alright to me, so I dont want to change something more. (and besides that: MX compatible)
-just want the metal case and QMK
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 21:03:08
Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Bummer, ducky is the only company I can trust with comes to RGB as it always uses high quality components and PCB which is very rare this days. Well at least there is Novatouch.
Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
That is a false statement. According to review and teardown of Masterkeys Pro S, it has very sloppy soldering and poor PCB quality
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/cooler-master-masterkeys-pro-s-t13296.htmlShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/d6HZrcS.jpg)
Well... I wasn't even making a comment about the build quality, but I don't want to be seen as a liar or providing false information, so I went and dug out my Masterkeys Pro L (I don't have a Pro S) and broke a fingernail or two getting it opened up (on the bright side, it lets me comment about the contruction of the case, and that is pretty solid, plenty of clips holding the top cover to the bottom assembly).
Once inside, I inspected the backside of the PCB and the quality of the solder joints. There are some flux residue which is to be expected, but absolutely no sign of sloppy solder job or bad joints anywhere. I guess you should have read the review fully where Matteo commented that the samples he got was a pre-preduction engineering samples and sent his feedback to Cooler Master. Also notice the black production PCB compared to the green PCB on the pre production sample. Also notice the solid steel top plate, which was painted white to help with RGB lighting, and both top and bottom edges has been folded over to improve bending and flexural stiffness along the y and y-z axes of the keyboard.
Overall, I stand by my comment earlier that the RGB on the Masterkeys is vastly superior to the Ducky RGB and Shine series, and now that I've seen inside the keyboard, I can confirm that the build quality is excellent too. Just as good if not slightly better than my Ducky One
I don't know why I'm even arguing, it's far too late and I need some sleep, guess I just got riled up when a random stranger on the internet calls me a liar.
Peace peeps, I'm off to bed.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DKG7IoD.jpg)
Thanks for upload, workmanship doesn't look soo bad.
I wouldn't call it argument as we are not throwing our tantrums, more like debate over disagreement.
Like I say I take matt3o inspection as what it is till proven other wise.
Recently tons mainstream productions has falling apart like House of cards and fanboy has lying misleading people.
Sometimes is just bias because they had good experience with their pass products but no experience present/recent productions and I became weary as a result..
Here in Singapore we always get the worst batch of almost everything, especially when comes to IT gaming products or considered as gaming products.
Post by: Metaldrake on Mon, 17 October 2016, 01:37:16
Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Bummer, ducky is the only company I can trust with comes to RGB as it always uses high quality components and PCB which is very rare this days. Well at least there is Novatouch.
Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
That is a false statement. According to review and teardown of Masterkeys Pro S, it has very sloppy soldering and poor PCB quality
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/cooler-master-masterkeys-pro-s-t13296.htmlShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/d6HZrcS.jpg)
Well... I wasn't even making a comment about the build quality, but I don't want to be seen as a liar or providing false information, so I went and dug out my Masterkeys Pro L (I don't have a Pro S) and broke a fingernail or two getting it opened up (on the bright side, it lets me comment about the contruction of the case, and that is pretty solid, plenty of clips holding the top cover to the bottom assembly).
Once inside, I inspected the backside of the PCB and the quality of the solder joints. There are some flux residue which is to be expected, but absolutely no sign of sloppy solder job or bad joints anywhere. I guess you should have read the review fully where Matteo commented that the samples he got was a pre-preduction engineering samples and sent his feedback to Cooler Master. Also notice the black production PCB compared to the green PCB on the pre production sample. Also notice the solid steel top plate, which was painted white to help with RGB lighting, and both top and bottom edges has been folded over to improve bending and flexural stiffness along the y and y-z axes of the keyboard.
Overall, I stand by my comment earlier that the RGB on the Masterkeys is vastly superior to the Ducky RGB and Shine series, and now that I've seen inside the keyboard, I can confirm that the build quality is excellent too. Just as good if not slightly better than my Ducky One
I don't know why I'm even arguing, it's far too late and I need some sleep, guess I just got riled up when a random stranger on the internet calls me a liar.
Peace peeps, I'm off to bed.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DKG7IoD.jpg)
Thanks for upload, workmanship doesn't look soo bad.
I wouldn't call it argument as we are not throwing our tantrums, more like debate over disagreement.
Like I say I take matt3o inspection as what it is till proven other wise.
Recently tons mainstream productions has falling apart like House of cards and fanboy has lying misleading people.
Sometimes is just bias because they had good experience with their pass products but no experience present/recent productions and I became weary as a result..
Here in Singapore we always get the worst batch of almost everything, especially when comes to IT gaming products or considered as gaming products.
I feel like we both live in very different Singapores eh? I got one of the first few shipments of the Pro S into Singapore and here's a pic of the PCB, looks like a pretty good soldering job to me. Only imperfections on the board were caused by me doing a pretty bad job at soldering switches, AFAIK.
(http://i.imgur.com/EoPwZ5v.jpg)
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 02:50:39
Mayb....Unless Ducky uses the same case manufacturer, no
Bummer, ducky is the only company I can trust with comes to RGB as it always uses high quality components and PCB which is very rare this days. Well at least there is Novatouch.
Masterkeys Pro S has been confirmed to work with this case, and the Masterkeys series has excellent RGB, I would say much better than Ducky
That is a false statement. According to review and teardown of Masterkeys Pro S, it has very sloppy soldering and poor PCB quality
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/cooler-master-masterkeys-pro-s-t13296.htmlShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/d6HZrcS.jpg)
Well... I wasn't even making a comment about the build quality, but I don't want to be seen as a liar or providing false information, so I went and dug out my Masterkeys Pro L (I don't have a Pro S) and broke a fingernail or two getting it opened up (on the bright side, it lets me comment about the contruction of the case, and that is pretty solid, plenty of clips holding the top cover to the bottom assembly).
Once inside, I inspected the backside of the PCB and the quality of the solder joints. There are some flux residue which is to be expected, but absolutely no sign of sloppy solder job or bad joints anywhere. I guess you should have read the review fully where Matteo commented that the samples he got was a pre-preduction engineering samples and sent his feedback to Cooler Master. Also notice the black production PCB compared to the green PCB on the pre production sample. Also notice the solid steel top plate, which was painted white to help with RGB lighting, and both top and bottom edges has been folded over to improve bending and flexural stiffness along the y and y-z axes of the keyboard.
Overall, I stand by my comment earlier that the RGB on the Masterkeys is vastly superior to the Ducky RGB and Shine series, and now that I've seen inside the keyboard, I can confirm that the build quality is excellent too. Just as good if not slightly better than my Ducky One
I don't know why I'm even arguing, it's far too late and I need some sleep, guess I just got riled up when a random stranger on the internet calls me a liar.
Peace peeps, I'm off to bed.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DKG7IoD.jpg)
Thanks for upload, workmanship doesn't look soo bad.
I wouldn't call it argument as we are not throwing our tantrums, more like debate over disagreement.
Like I say I take matt3o inspection as what it is till proven other wise.
Recently tons mainstream productions has falling apart like House of cards and fanboy has lying misleading people.
Sometimes is just bias because they had good experience with their pass products but no experience present/recent productions and I became weary as a result..
Here in Singapore we always get the worst batch of almost everything, especially when comes to IT gaming products or considered as gaming products.
I feel like we both live in very different Singapores eh? I got one of the first few shipments of the Pro S into Singapore and here's a pic of the PCB, looks like a pretty good soldering job to me. Only imperfections on the board were caused by me doing a pretty bad job at soldering switches, AFAIK.
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EoPwZ5v.jpg)
Or CM has step up their production/manufacturer in china.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 24 October 2016, 21:23:43
This version incorporates many improvements as suggested by the several GeekHack members (most recently codywanks and henz) who graciously helped by purchasing prototypes from me and giving me excellent feedback.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-6.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-5.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-7.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-2.jpg)
Optional riser kit
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-3.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-4.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-2.jpg)
And the black is the same as in the opening post.
(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r2-main.png)
Give me a few days to set up some kind of payment/ordering infrastructure and we'll have a group buy rolling for these in gray and black!
Powder coat options may come in a subsequent group buy, but I just didn't want to hold things up longer while waiting for that shop to pull themselves together. :rolleyes:
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 24 October 2016, 21:28:32
- corner screw holes are moved away from edge to prevent possible denting (as suggested by a member in this thread)
- USB bracket moved away from nearby PCB screw to prevent interference
- flange screws to cinch plate into place securely
- slightly slimmer profile all around
- safer tolerances around the bumpon recesses
And probably some other stuff I forgot. ;)
Post by: eksuen on Tue, 25 October 2016, 01:14:35
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Tue, 25 October 2016, 03:00:56
Post by: fax668 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 03:32:45
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 05:47:39
Well, my estimable pals in the People's Republic have come through for us. (Sorry for the un-edited pics. I'll have some better ones soon.) The gray prototype arrived today via DHL. It is a nice medium gray that is slightly warm in color.
This version incorporates many improvements as suggested by the several GeekHack members (most recently codywanks and henz) who graciously helped by purchasing prototypes from me and giving me excellent feedback.Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1.jpg)Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-6.jpg)Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-5.jpg)Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-7.jpg)Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-2.jpg)
Optional riser kitShow Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-3.jpg)Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-4.jpg)Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-2.jpg)
And the black is the same as in the opening post.Show Image(http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-r2-main.png)
Give me a few days to set up some kind of payment/ordering infrastructure and we'll have a group buy rolling for these in gray and black!
Powder coat options may come in a subsequent group buy, but I just didn't want to hold things up longer while waiting for that shop to pull themselves together. :rolleyes:
Woah, love the simplistic look. I'm sold.
Btw is this the final design yet or there would be changes after group buy?
Post by: McPwned on Tue, 25 October 2016, 08:20:32
Powder coat options may come in a subsequent group buy, but I just didn't want to hold things up longer while waiting for that shop to pull themselves together.Dang, are you able to provide any more certainty on the matter? My preference is for the Enigma Black, but I don't want to miss out on a case if you decide not to run it (I'm not buying more than one).
Post by: complex on Tue, 25 October 2016, 08:33:16
just a generous estimate? I also wanted to know how long is the production/shipping going to take (shipping espacially to EU).
Really looking forward to the drop :D
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 25 October 2016, 08:39:56
I'm really interested in silver or white. I'm assuming the white would be powder coated, right? Maybe this will be a thing down the road. Great work, just sad about the colors people chose.
Post by: mrkevint on Tue, 25 October 2016, 10:38:08
Post by: AskAJedi on Tue, 25 October 2016, 11:58:54
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: norbauer on Tue, 25 October 2016, 13:57:54
Post by: nateth on Tue, 25 October 2016, 14:25:04
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 25 October 2016, 14:31:40
+1 for white.
Are there any white metal cases out there with the exception of the pok3r? If so I haven't found them. I read that aluminum has to be acid etched to get a white look, and I guess steel is too heavy for tkl? I think white would be a stand out product. The added thickness of the powder coat is not my cup of tea, but I might consider it if the layer was thin enough.
Is it impossible to simply paint aluminum with a good result? Sorry, I'm a novice at metal finishing :) I also think beige would be beautiful, but I like it old skewl.
Post by: r5d on Tue, 25 October 2016, 14:34:48
Post by: Rageous on Tue, 25 October 2016, 15:33:15
Post by: richard912 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 19:36:28
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 26 October 2016, 00:03:48
I'm in for one aluminum and one powder coat white, but I second the request for comparison photos so I can decide whether to go with grey or black.
Here you guys go. :)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/color-comparison/gray-china-2.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/color-comparison/gray-china-1.jpg)
Post by: nateth on Wed, 26 October 2016, 00:27:05
Here you guys go. :)
Oh come on! Now it's even harder to decide. Whatever happened to choiceless communism standard issue norbauer edition? :)
Post by: richard912 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 00:45:17
Buy both? hahaha. I'm leaning towards the grey. Black is just so....common
Here you guys go. :)
Oh come on! Now it's even harder to decide. Whatever happened to choiceless communism standard issue norbauer edition? :)
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 26 October 2016, 00:45:27
Here you guys go. :)
Oh come on! Now it's even harder to decide. Whatever happened to choiceless communism standard issue norbauer edition? :)
lol. I know. I'm just too eager to please, I guess. ;)
Post by: consolelog on Wed, 26 October 2016, 01:12:33
Post by: Razer1987 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 03:07:02
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 26 October 2016, 03:16:33
I hope there will be Enigma Black in the future, I am gonna wait for it. Unlike anodized (even if the gray is beautiful), there was something really different from other cases with this color and finish. A vintage style on a modern board.
I'm very keen on it myself and still plan to figure it out. I might just have to get the cases made unfinished and sent to me from China and get the powder finish work done here in the Bay Area in person. When I start the group buy, for those who are set on getting an Enigma Black, I'll ask you to contact me for it as a "special order" and I'll work with that sub-group directly to figure out how we're going to go about getting ours made. It will definitely take longer than the others, however, and I wouldn't feel comfortable taking money from anyone for a product where I hadn't worked out all the details and have a known ETA.
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 26 October 2016, 03:19:07
Just signed up so I could say I'm excited for this! I've had my novatouch for a little less than a week now and one of my few complaints was how cheap the stock case felt. Glad to have found this before it happened!
Thanks for saying that! :) It's stuff like this that keeps me going through all the production dilemmas, design tweaks, and prototyping delays.
We're in the home stretch for reals now.
Post by: codywanks on Wed, 26 October 2016, 04:15:21
Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7116954/Novatouch%20Round%201/gray-china-1-6.jpg)
:eek:
wow, that looks fantastic, the chamfers & seams just look so clean! great job Norbauer!
Improvements in this version
- corner screw holes are moved away from edge to prevent possible denting (as suggested by a member in this thread)
- USB bracket moved away from nearby PCB screw to prevent interference
- flange screws to cinch plate into place securely
- slightly slimmer profile all around
- safer tolerances around the bumpon recesses
And probably some other stuff I forgot. ;)
makes me happy to see all these improvements done :thumb:
I like that gray with the bronze-ish tint.
the bronze-ish tint seems quite obvious to me. was it just the lighting or something intentional?
Post by: McPwned on Wed, 26 October 2016, 08:08:05
Looking at the anodized cases, I think I'm going to wait for Enigma Black regardless of its certainty. I'll be contacting you for the subgroup when the time comes.I hope there will be Enigma Black in the future, I am gonna wait for it. Unlike anodized (even if the gray is beautiful), there was something really different from other cases with this color and finish. A vintage style on a modern board.
I'm very keen on it myself and still plan to figure it out. I might just have to get the cases made unfinished and sent to me from China and get the powder finish work done here in the Bay Area in person. When I start the group buy, for those who are set on getting an Enigma Black, I'll ask you to contact me for it as a "special order" and I'll work with that sub-group directly to figure out how we're going to go about getting ours made. It will definitely take longer than the others, however, and I wouldn't feel comfortable taking money from anyone for a product where I hadn't worked out all the details and have a known ETA.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 26 October 2016, 08:45:06
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 26 October 2016, 09:46:13
really hoping this will be happening soon, as it would be a cool project for a novatouch. Will most likely have to find one though since Ive never owned one haha.
Just my 2cents, but I would look for a used Novatouch and try it out if you can. I got rid of mine a while back, and it was the first keyboard that I didn't hesitate to sell. The switches just were not for me. If you like the feel of membrane, you might like Topre. If you like normal to medium tension linears (I especially like the way the spring feels mid press; the way it pushes back) or the click of blues/greens, this is not the switch for you.
I'll give topre credit for it's sound when bottoming out, but to me it feels boring. There's no tactile feedback and nothing mid press. Not much fun IMO.
If you fall in line with my tastes, I would NOT recommend the Novatouch (insert disclaimer about how everyone has different preferences). See below:
- Switches I own and like: MX brown, MX blue, MX green, MX black, Gateron black, Matias clicky
- Switches I had but got rid of: Gateron clear, Topre (Novatouch), MX gray
Definitely not hating on the project, by the way. I plan to put a Masterkeys S or Rapid-i in this baby.
Post by: the_marsbar on Wed, 26 October 2016, 15:06:22
Post by: Metaldrake on Thu, 27 October 2016, 00:55:33
I agree, a NovaTouch is a bit underwhelming when compared to a HHKB Type-S (which I absolutely love typing on). I'm sure it can be fixed, though, e.g., by silencing the board, and replacing the horrible ABS stock keycaps with PBT keycaps.
Agreed, stock Novatouch is very underwhelming compared to my two Realforce boards. Silencing + domeswap + lube + thick PBT keycaps really does help it feel great, and I prefer it over my Realforce boards too. Hopefully this aluminium case will help improve the overall experience even further.
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Thu, 27 October 2016, 13:16:06
I agree, a NovaTouch is a bit underwhelming when compared to a HHKB Type-S (which I absolutely love typing on). I'm sure it can be fixed, though, e.g., by silencing the board, and replacing the horrible ABS stock keycaps with PBT keycaps.
Agreed, stock Novatouch is very underwhelming compared to my two Realforce boards. Silencing + domeswap + lube + thick PBT keycaps really does help it feel great, and I prefer it over my Realforce boards too. Hopefully this aluminium case will help improve the overall experience even further.
So I was looking to pick up a CM Nova off eBay because I have heard generally really great things about them, love that they are discontinued now, and don't have a good TKL board, but the cost has had me weighing my options, I really love this case project and am interested in getting on board, but would you guys say some of the other boards this case fits would be better or worse than the CM Novatouch?
Post by: Phenix on Thu, 27 October 2016, 13:36:55
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 27 October 2016, 14:08:36
So I was looking to pick up a CM Nova off eBay because I have heard generally really great things about them, love that they are discontinued now, and don't have a good TKL board, but the cost has had me weighing my options, I really love this case project and am interested in getting on board, but would you guys say some of the other boards this case fits would be better or worse than the CM Novatouch?
I like the Novatouch. The switches definitely feel different from my HHKB but it's not necessarily worse per se - the stems are instantly compatible with MX keycaps, the layout's great (TKL is about as big as I'll go these days), it's inexpensive... No reason to not buy it while you can if you can afford it, to be perfectly honest. It's a whole lot you're getting for very little money, you can even potentially harvest the stems to mod a HHKB later on if you happen to love topre and want to get a smaller board or something.
On the other hand, the other keyboards this case is compatible with are pretty much your average board, they'll always be around if you do want to get one eventually.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 27 October 2016, 15:48:55
Oh I already know I love topre, I have an hhkb at the moment haha, great I put though!really hoping this will be happening soon, as it would be a cool project for a novatouch. Will most likely have to find one though since Ive never owned one haha.
Just my 2cents, but I would look for a used Novatouch and try it out if you can. I got rid of mine a while back, and it was the first keyboard that I didn't hesitate to sell. The switches just were not for me. If you like the feel of membrane, you might like Topre. If you like normal to medium tension linears (I especially like the way the spring feels mid press; the way it pushes back) or the click of blues/greens, this is not the switch for you.
I'll give topre credit for it's sound when bottoming out, but to me it feels boring. There's no tactile feedback and nothing mid press. Not much fun IMO.
If you fall in line with my tastes, I would NOT recommend the Novatouch (insert disclaimer about how everyone has different preferences). See below:
- Switches I own and like: MX brown, MX blue, MX green, MX black, Gateron black, Matias clicky
- Switches I had but got rid of: Gateron clear, Topre (Novatouch), MX gray
Definitely not hating on the project, by the way. I plan to put a Masterkeys S or Rapid-i in this baby.
I meant a novatouch though, I need to find one!
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: K on Thu, 27 October 2016, 15:56:45
Post by: ErgoSloth on Thu, 27 October 2016, 16:26:56
As soon as I'll have this and a set of hypersphere rings I'll be set :D ...except for the keycaps, that never ends...
Post by: arhetue on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:55:01
Post by: eyedrop on Thu, 27 October 2016, 22:44:56
Thanks norbauer for organizing this.
Post by: FSund on Fri, 28 October 2016, 01:48:24
I'm still a bit on the fence because of the relatively high price, but I'll probably end up getting one when the GB starts.
I actually noticed the other day that the stock case of my Novatouch has started bending/flexing, which has mostly convinced my to get norbauer's alu case.
The effect is subtle, but really obvious when looking down the length of the keyboard. It's hard to capture with a phone camera, but you can kind of see it in the images below:
(http://i.imgur.com/VVKyn1D.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/eHuBaeJ.jpg)
I would be really interested to see if anyone else has noticed this on their Novatouch. But that is perhaps something for a different thread.
Post by: norbauer on Sat, 29 October 2016, 17:37:14
Post by: Vigrith on Sat, 29 October 2016, 17:50:52
That said, exciting news! I've been busy and haven't kept up with the thread as I should, have you decided how many colours you'll be offering the case in after all? I saw the dark and light greys, is the space white still happening?
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 29 October 2016, 18:01:17
I'm working on setting up the group buy infrastructure now. How long do you guys think we should leave it open for orders? Is there a common GeekHack convention for this? I was thinking maybe a couple of weeks.
3-6 weeks
you'll only really get orders at the beginning and end of the order period anyway
Post by: evangs on Sat, 29 October 2016, 18:03:08
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: norbauer on Sat, 29 October 2016, 18:16:44
Between a couple weeks to a little under a month is the usual I think, guess 2-3 weeks is the sweetspot, I personally think anything under 2 is too short and pushing a month might be too long unless we really need to stretch for the MOQ.
That said, exciting news! I've been busy and haven't kept up with the thread as I should, have you decided how many colours you'll be offering the case in after all? I saw the dark and light greys, is the space white still happening?
OK, yeah, I think maybe around 3 weeks seems like a good plan then. Probably a good idea to span a bit more than a two-week period, but I don't want to make us all wait any longer than necessary to get this rolling.
Current planned colors for this group buy: warm gray anodized, black anodized, white powder. I'm trying to cobble together a way to take orders this weekend and hope to have it ready for early next week. :)
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 29 October 2016, 18:20:57
Post by: Vigrith on Sat, 29 October 2016, 18:35:58
OK, yeah, I think maybe around 3 weeks seems like a good plan then. Probably a good idea to span a bit more than a two-week period, but I don't want to make us all wait any longer than necessary to get this rolling.
Current planned colors for this group buy: warm gray anodized, black anodized, white powder. I'm trying to cobble together a way to take orders this weekend and hope to have it ready for early next week. :)
Yea I feel that'd be the best way to go about it, will you be running the buy through the GB section here or any particular website outside of GH?
Regarding the colours, that's awesome! I'm partial to white always but depending on how the black looks I may be torn, did you receive samples for all three finishes and if so will you be uploading them all to the OP prior to the buy period?
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 30 October 2016, 02:31:58
Hopefully we can receive orders by Christmas that way.
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 30 October 2016, 02:50:57
Yes, I agree, I would recommend MassDrop ideally.OK, yeah, I think maybe around 3 weeks seems like a good plan then. Probably a good idea to span a bit more than a two-week period, but I don't want to make us all wait any longer than necessary to get this rolling.
Current planned colors for this group buy: warm gray anodized, black anodized, white powder. I'm trying to cobble together a way to take orders this weekend and hope to have it ready for early next week. :)
Yea I feel that'd be the best way to go about it, will you be running the buy through the GB section here or any particular website outside of GH?
Regarding the colours, that's awesome! I'm partial to white always but depending on how the black looks I may be torn, did you receive samples for all three finishes and if so will you be uploading them all to the OP prior to the buy period?
From what I read at reddit, People claimed that GH community has a quite high level bias-ism and arrogance as a result quite a number of keyboard enthusiasts are boycotting it.
MassDrop has more visitors as the site don't really have any bad rep and plus the way MassdDrop manage money/finance gives people a sense of security and trusts. Therefore people are more confident in placing money on it and it would be much easier to reach the quota
Post by: Phenix on Sun, 30 October 2016, 05:25:38
It is a pain (normally)
for anyone outside US (im in Germany, so high shipping + (hopefully no taxes) sum up
Post by: bubbedi on Sun, 30 October 2016, 05:34:56
Please no massdrop.+1
It is a pain (normally)
for anyone outside US (im in Germany, so high shipping + (hopefully no taxes) sum up
but I understand if you want to go through massdrop
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 30 October 2016, 06:47:02
Please no massdrop.It's the price to pay for security and reinsurance
It is a pain (normally)
for anyone outside US (im in Germany, so high shipping + (hopefully no taxes) sum up
Anyway its just a suggestion. I do agree it can be expensive.
Alternatively there is taobao it would be much more affordable since its manufacturer in very same country. But I personally think it's not a good idea.
Post by: fine_italian_leather on Sun, 30 October 2016, 07:52:05
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 00:20:45
Rest assured I'll make sure our shipments are fully insured and always take as cautious an approach as I can. I'm the sort of person who frets constantly about worst case scenarios (and how to protect against them), so I'm probably more on top of risk management in this project than most people would even expect me to be. I just want us all to get our cases safe and sound. The biggest unknown for me in terms of delivery timeline is customs clearance—only because I've never had to do it before on a large shipment.
I'm still putting things together but hope to have something up early this week to start taking orders and building our numbers. I don't have any concerns about hitting the factory MOQ if the polling numbers are at all indicative. And, honestly, I don't necessarily want the numbers to be too huge, because I have to pack and ship all these things after they arrive to me in the shipping crate. ;) And the way this shop works, there isn't really a significant price break on volume at these quantities.
Post by: wodan on Mon, 31 October 2016, 01:10:55
Post by: arhetue on Mon, 31 October 2016, 07:58:51
Will you have final pics of the three case colors posted with the order form? On the fence between warm grey and black.... what do you think would look best with a Troubled Minds setup?
Post by: fax668 on Mon, 31 October 2016, 08:16:10
On the fence between warm grey and black.... what do you think would look best with a Troubled Minds setup?No doubt it would look best on a white keyboard: :p
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 31 October 2016, 09:38:42
I'm just working on setting up a simple Shopify store and Stripe payment system. This way you'll be dealing just with me directly, so you know whom to blame if something goes wrong. :) I'm pretty visible on the internet, and I'm organizing this under my own real name (Ryan Norbauer). I've made a decently popular keyset that many GH members have bought in the past (Galaxy Class), so hopefully that will all help people feel more confident than buying something from an anonymous internet stranger.
Rest assured I'll make sure our shipments are fully insured and always take as cautious an approach as I can. I'm the sort of person who frets constantly about worst case scenarios (and how to protect against them), so I'm probably more on top of risk management in this project than most people would even expect me to be. I just want us all to get our cases safe and sound. The biggest unknown for me in terms of delivery timeline is customs clearance—only because I've never had to do it before on a large shipment.
I'm still putting things together but hope to have something up early this week to start taking orders and building our numbers. I don't have any concerns about hitting the factory MOQ if the polling numbers are at all indicative. And, honestly, I don't necessarily want the numbers to be too huge, because I have to pack and ship all these things after they arrive to me in the shipping crate. ;) And the way this shop works, there isn't really a significant price break on volume at these quantities.
Awaiting the URL to whisk my money away!
Post by: ErgoSloth on Mon, 31 October 2016, 10:56:47
On the fence between warm grey and black.... what do you think would look best with a Troubled Minds setup?No doubt it would look best on a white keyboard: :p
Hell yes, especially with the white caps from the Joker set if you have them :thumb:
Wish there was something like this for DSA Quartz to help me decide too :confused:
Post by: consolelog on Mon, 31 October 2016, 11:32:55
Post by: arhetue on Mon, 31 October 2016, 11:36:01
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 31 October 2016, 11:49:12
If that won't work, any idea on the fit of a Phantom PCB? Maybe you would have to do without a plate though?
Post by: duynguyenle on Mon, 31 October 2016, 12:58:39
Maybe you've mentioned it already, but what about the fit of a non-"i" version of the cm boards, the cheaper "rapidfire" boards? Would love to grab a $60 rapidfire with greens and stick it in here.
If that won't work, any idea on the fit of a Phantom PCB? Maybe you would have to do without a plate though?
I believe the QFR is manufactured by a different OEM and will not fit. Luckily for you, I think the TEX case will fit the QFR just fine.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 14:23:39
+1 on some more pics, perhaps a top-down view? Can't seem to decide what will go well with hyperfuse
Good point. I'll work on adding those to the order page.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 14:25:17
Maybe you've mentioned it already, but what about the fit of a non-"i" version of the cm boards, the cheaper "rapidfire" boards? Would love to grab a $60 rapidfire with greens and stick it in here.
If that won't work, any idea on the fit of a Phantom PCB? Maybe you would have to do without a plate though?
I believe the QFR is manufactured by a different OEM and will not fit. Luckily for you, I think the TEX case will fit the QFR just fine.
I concur. I haven't had a QFR around for a while, so I can't test it in person, but as I recall, when I first opened the Novatouch I remember thinking it was a new plate/case design (to me, anyway). I'm actually impressed that there is as much commonality among their disparate cases as there is.
If anybody wants to post some pics of the QFR plate, however, I could probably be able to tell immediately. If it looks plausible, I'm happy to order one and test.
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 31 October 2016, 14:47:13
It'll take me just a few minutes to set up a videocam over my left shoulder but:
1) The powder coated gray finish on the prototype will not be offered in the groupbuy, so I'm a little concerned that posting a video of it will cause confusion, especially among those who haven't bothered to read though the entire thread
2) I'm using an old Sony HDR-CX100 and I'm not sure how crappy the mic is
3) I'd expect the filesize to be quite substantial, and I do not want to create a YouTube channel just to host it, so I'd probably need some help with this
What do you guys think?
Post by: derzemel on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:01:56
Am considering the idea of doing a typing sound test with Norbauer's prototype case on my Hypersphere'd Novatouch, as I doubt such a video exists at the moment (silenced Novatouch typing vids aren't common to begin with).Say in the video title that gray will not be available. Say it again in the video (text on image for the whole duration of the video). Also in the description.
It'll take me just a few minutes to set up a videocam over my left shoulder but:
1) The powder coated gray finish on the prototype will not be offered in the groupbuy, so I'm a little concerned that posting a video of it will cause confusion, especially among those who haven't bothered to read though the entire thread
2) I'm using an old Sony HDR-CX100 and I'm not sure how crappy the mic is
3) I'd expect the filesize to be quite substantial, and I do not want to create a YouTube channel just to host it, so I'd probably need some help with this
What do you guys think?
This way you will hopefully have fewer than 10 people asking where they can buy the gray case
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:07:36
Am considering the idea of doing a typing sound test with Norbauer's prototype case on my Hypersphere'd Novatouch, as I doubt such a video exists at the moment (silenced Novatouch typing vids aren't common to begin with).Say in the video title that gray will not be available. Say it again in the video (text on image for the whole duration of the video). Also in the description.
It'll take me just a few minutes to set up a videocam over my left shoulder but:
1) The powder coated gray finish on the prototype will not be offered in the groupbuy, so I'm a little concerned that posting a video of it will cause confusion, especially among those who haven't bothered to read though the entire thread
2) I'm using an old Sony HDR-CX100 and I'm not sure how crappy the mic is
3) I'd expect the filesize to be quite substantial, and I do not want to create a YouTube channel just to host it, so I'd probably need some help with this
What do you guys think?
This way you will hopefully have fewer than 10 people asking where they can buy the gray case
lol. True. But I think from the order page it should be obvious.
codywanks: Thanks for offering to do this! You can put it on Dropbox maybe and share a public link? Or I can give you access to a Dropbox folder on my account.
This reminds me I should maybe do a typing test video of the anodized case. I'm still in the middle of unpacking in my new house and completing some necessary renovations, so I'm a little scattered and slow but I get to everything eventually. ;)
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:22:55
Current planned colors for this group buy: warm gray anodized, black anodized, white powder. I'm trying to cobble together a way to take orders this weekend and hope to have it ready for early next week. :)
I'm trying to find pictures of what the available colors look like on the thread but am not having luck, do you have a picture of what the anodized warm grey, black and the white powder will look like?
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:25:39
Say in the video title that gray will not be available. Say it again in the video (text on image for the whole duration of the video). Also in the description.
This way you will hopefully have fewer than 10 people asking where they can buy the gray case
^ LOL YES THIS
codywanks: Thanks for offering to do this! You can put it on Dropbox maybe and share a public link? Or I can give you access to a Dropbox folder on my account.
good idea! let me see if I can get my dropbox to work. or I'll shoot you a PM if I need to borrow a folder :)
This reminds me I should maybe do a typing test video of the anodized case. I'm still in the middle of unpacking in my new house and completing some necessary renovations, so I'm a little scattered and slow but I get to everything eventually. ;)
the one here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80317.msg2282196#msg2282196) seemed pretty decent
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:28:13
This reminds me I should maybe do a typing test video of the anodized case. I'm still in the middle of unpacking in my new house and completing some necessary renovations, so I'm a little scattered and slow but I get to everything eventually. ;)
the one here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80317.msg2282196#msg2282196) seemed pretty decent
That is one is actually on a powder coated prototype, but one made at the shop that is actually going to be making the production cases. I'm not saying that the finish will have much effect on the typing experience (surely it won't?), but it is technically a slightly different case.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:29:50
Current planned colors for this group buy: warm gray anodized, black anodized, white powder. I'm trying to cobble together a way to take orders this weekend and hope to have it ready for early next week. :)
I'm trying to find pictures of what the available colors look like on the thread but am not having luck, do you have a picture of what the anodized warm grey, black and the white powder will look like?
I'm working on better pics and the best place to see the final ones will be in the product page I set up, but in the meantime, here is a view link to the Dropbox folder I've been using for holding the images I've posted here.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lun1vfsoi1wf4eu/AABUKriqrtI4f9eP-JICf-Gma?dl=0
Click on the "color comparison" folder at the top to see two images of the two ano colors together.
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:46:04
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lun1vfsoi1wf4eu/AABUKriqrtI4f9eP-JICf-Gma?dl=0
Click on the "color comparison" folder at the top to see two images of the two ano colors together.
Awesome, exactly what I was hoping to see, thank you!
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 31 October 2016, 15:50:02
Post by: eksuen on Mon, 31 October 2016, 16:34:49
Thanks for the pics! Good to see the white version at last. Does it have a matte or a glossy finish? I can only see it from my phone (silly proxy at work won't let me access dropbox)
Powder coat will come out with a matte finish.
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 16:44:24
Thanks for the pics! Good to see the white version at last. Does it have a matte or a glossy finish? I can only see it from my phone (silly proxy at work won't let me access dropbox)
Powder coat will come out with a matte finish.
As I recently learned, powder coat actually can be done in a wide spectrum of gloss ratings, but I've asked for this in a relatively matte finish. It doesn't matter much on white, but on darker colors a high-gloss finish will show any imperfections in the powder coat layer much more readily.
Post by: eksuen on Mon, 31 October 2016, 16:48:00
Thanks for the pics! Good to see the white version at last. Does it have a matte or a glossy finish? I can only see it from my phone (silly proxy at work won't let me access dropbox)
Powder coat will come out with a matte finish.
As I recently learned, powder coat actually can be done in a wide spectrum of gloss ratings, but I've asked for this in a relatively matte finish. It doesn't matter much on white, but on darker colors a high-gloss finish will show any imperfections in the powder coat layer much more readily.
Ah, good to know.
Post by: arhetue on Mon, 31 October 2016, 17:40:14
Am I correct that those are the two colors in pic 12?
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 17:56:58
Wow, nice pics. That did not make my decision easier between powder coat black and warm grey...
Am I correct that those are the two colors in pic 12?
The two colors there are black anodized and warm gray black.
Post by: arhetue on Mon, 31 October 2016, 18:00:05
Post by: arhetue on Mon, 31 October 2016, 18:01:08
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 31 October 2016, 18:05:23
Will the coating be offered on the warm grey?
Anodizing will be warm gray and black. The only powder finish offered is white, because white isn't possible with anodizing. There may be a special run of wrinkle coat black at a later point, but I'm unfortunately just having to put that to one side for now so we can move forward with the rest.
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Mon, 31 October 2016, 18:11:52
Will the coating be offered on the warm grey?
Anodizing will be warm gray and black. The only powder finish offered is white, because white isn't possible with anodizing. There may be a special run of wrinkle coat black at a later point, but I'm unfortunately just having to put that to one side for now so we can move forward with the rest.
If you, potentially, do a second run in alt colors, is any consideration given to a darker grey/gunmetal color? or would the textured black be a one off?
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 01 November 2016, 13:23:55
Here's my typing sound test using the CNC case. Sorry for the grainy video quality.
The Novatouch has been silenced with Hypersphere rings. Keycaps are Originative Carbon Black ABS.
Post by: eksuen on Tue, 01 November 2016, 13:32:52
Here's my typing sound test using the CNC case. Sorry for the grainy video quality.
The Novatouch has been silenced with Hypersphere rings. Keycaps are Originative Carbon Black ABS.
Thanks for making the video!
Post by: poolside on Tue, 01 November 2016, 18:05:33
Thanks, guys. Replies are still coming in pretty actively (please do if you haven't already: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FGPR7T8), so I'll hold off another day or so before sharing the conclusions of the survey.I might be in for a space white case. I skimmed quickly through the thread but could not find the diameter of the threaded holes of the screw-in feet. Will they be 4mm?
They are actually M5x0.5. Is 4mm some kind of standard threading for case feet? I could reduce the threading to 4mm threads pretty easily, though that seems like it would maybe make the threaded stems a little flimsy. But if that would make the case compatible with other feet available, it would probably be worth the change.
Thanks for that piece of info (and sorry for the late reply).
I don't know about any standard for case feet threading but I was thinking on using a pair of the conical aluminum feet that MD often has in keyboard drops (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/anodized-cnc-aluminum-cone-feet?mode=guest_open). These were available with the WhiteFox and Minivan lately and (seem to) have a lower profile than those you will be offering. They are M4 according to the specs, though.
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 01 November 2016, 19:09:01
I might be in for a space white case. I skimmed quickly through the thread but could not find the diameter of the threaded holes of the screw-in feet. Will they be 4mm?
They are actually M5x0.5. Is 4mm some kind of standard threading for case feet? I could reduce the threading to 4mm threads pretty easily, though that seems like it would maybe make the threaded stems a little flimsy. But if that would make the case compatible with other feet available, it would probably be worth the change.
Thanks for that piece of info (and sorry for the late reply).
I don't know about any standard for case feet threading but I was thinking on using a pair of the conical aluminum feet that MD often has in keyboard drops (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/anodized-cnc-aluminum-cone-feet?mode=guest_open). These were available with the WhiteFox and Minivan lately and (seem to) have a lower profile than those you will be offering. They are M4 according to the specs, though.
I should be able to help a little here.
The feet Norbauer included with my prototype have built-in screws, whereas the WhiteFox feet feature removable screws. This configuration means that the WhiteFox feet may not be used with the case in its current iteration.
For what it's worth, both sets of screws appear to be of the same diameter/thickness.
Post by: arcsay on Tue, 01 November 2016, 22:06:31
http://pexonpcs.co.uk/collections/usb-cables/products/new-style-mod-kit?variant=14073718086
Connector #1 Filco TKL
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 02 November 2016, 00:09:32
Does anyone know if the Pexon New Style Mod Kit cable work for the Cooler Master Novatouch? If I were to get this case I would love to see if I could also get this cable
http://pexonpcs.co.uk/collections/usb-cables/products/new-style-mod-kit?variant=14073718086
Connector #1 Filco TKL
Novatouch is micro usb detachable. You would just choose the micro USB option, so no need to open up the case. Although that would look a bit goofy since it exits flush with the back left and not underneath.
So I'm thinking you would want to try the Filco cable method. It looks like it would work with the NT, but you'd probably want to grab the longest one since the header is a bit further away from the exit point. You can see that close to the bottom of this page http://community.coolermaster.com/index.php/topic/13245-cooler-master-novatouch-tkl-review/
Post by: ErgoSloth on Wed, 02 November 2016, 15:04:15
Post by: Panzerhawx on Wed, 02 November 2016, 17:01:40
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 03 November 2016, 16:16:00
I know it's a lot to ask, but I'm just looking at ballpark figures. I think you said you were in the process of moving and I know that can be chaotic.
Post by: dead_pixel_design on Thu, 03 November 2016, 16:44:20
Post by: poolside on Thu, 03 November 2016, 19:02:21
MoreI might be in for a space white case. I skimmed quickly through the thread but could not find the diameter of the threaded holes of the screw-in feet. Will they be 4mm?
They are actually M5x0.5. Is 4mm some kind of standard threading for case feet? I could reduce the threading to 4mm threads pretty easily, though that seems like it would maybe make the threaded stems a little flimsy. But if that would make the case compatible with other feet available, it would probably be worth the change.
Thanks for that piece of info (and sorry for the late reply).
I don't know about any standard for case feet threading but I was thinking on using a pair of the conical aluminum feet that MD often has in keyboard drops (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/anodized-cnc-aluminum-cone-feet?mode=guest_open (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/anodized-cnc-aluminum-cone-feet?mode=guest_open)). These were available with the WhiteFox and Minivan lately and (seem to) have a lower profile than those you will be offering. They are M4 according to the specs, though.
I should be able to help a little here.
The feet Norbauer included with my prototype have built-in screws, whereas the WhiteFox feet feature removable screws. This configuration means that the WhiteFox feet may not be used with the case in its current iteration.
For what it's worth, both sets of screws appear to be of the same diameter/thickness.
Thanks for the video. :thumb:
This made me realize that the WhiteFox feet have to be fastened from the inside of the case, whose holes are unthreaded with chamfers for the conical screw heads. As the diameters appear to match, I guess I will have to find longer WF screws and cut them off to make them threaded on both ends so they can be used with the NT alu case.
Post by: poolside on Thu, 03 November 2016, 19:08:24
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 04 November 2016, 11:09:22
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 04 November 2016, 14:47:17
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 04 November 2016, 14:55:18
Hi all. Quick update. The shopify store is all set up, but I'm just trying to sort out how to charge for shipping on international orders in a way that is fair to everyone. Once that is all set, I'll post a link to the shop here. :)
WOW! Thanks for the update. I'll keep hitting F5 until I leave work. I think if I do it at a random speed it will sound like I'm busy typing, right?
Post by: bubbedi on Fri, 04 November 2016, 15:00:16
hmm....yea seems legit ;)Hi all. Quick update. The shopify store is all set up, but I'm just trying to sort out how to charge for shipping on international orders in a way that is fair to everyone. Once that is all set, I'll post a link to the shop here. :)
WOW! Thanks for the upadte. I'll keep hitting F5 until I leave work. I think if I do it at a random speed it will sound like I'm busy typing, right?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: bubbedi on Fri, 04 November 2016, 15:01:26
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: arhetue on Fri, 04 November 2016, 15:42:49
The shopify store is all set up
My money is burning a hole in my pocket! :thumb:
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 06 November 2016, 15:14:07
Post by: bubbedi on Sun, 06 November 2016, 16:05:25
Group buy thread is up as of last night, just waiting for moderator approval. :)Yay!!!
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: norbauer on Sun, 06 November 2016, 17:54:23
Will there be new photos also?
Forgot to answer this question, btw. (Sorry, sometimes stuff gets buried in the barrage of posts and it's hard to address everything.) I have indeed added some new photos to the product listing. Once you've seen them, if you need to see any other details in particular, just let me know and I'll try to come up with something. It's just a bit tricky for me with the current height of the table in my photo set up to get a straight-downward image on the board, so most of them tend to be from a side angle if it is of the entire board rather than a part of it.
Post by: bubbedi on Sun, 06 November 2016, 18:09:40
No sweat!Will there be new photos also?
Forgot to answer this question, btw. (Sorry, sometimes stuff gets buried in the barrage of posts and it's hard to address everything.) I have indeed added some new photos to the product listing. Once you've seen them, if you need to see any other details in particular, just let me know and I'll try to come up with something. It's just a bit tricky for me with the current height of the table in my photo set up to get a straight-downward image on the board, so most of them tend to be from a side angle if it is of the entire board rather than a part of it.
I see your point, but just to be clear I think your photos are very nice. At the moment its just so incredibly hard to decide what color/finish to go with. Can not wait too see the listing.
And great work norbauer, wow! I recall when you began this thing(i believe it started out in another thread quite a while ago) and now you are basically ready to satisfy me and a whole bunch of other people. You really did pull through and impressed me with this project - you have been so focused on details and ontop of that very creative along the way. It's been very cool and exciting to follow.
you da man basically
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: ticktwo on Sun, 06 November 2016, 18:37:14
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 07 November 2016, 01:01:08
Let's move the discussion over there. :)