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Implemented changes to the GROUP BUYS subforum and the VToS
chuckdee:
--- Quote from: Photoelectric on Wed, 15 February 2017, 12:36:29 ---That's actually something that the poster of each buy should put into the description of the good(s) they intend to offer.
--- End quote ---
You're putting a lot of faith in the vendor to represent it correctly. If that's the intent, I'd go with why have the distinction and confusion I tagging. Because it will become a morass soon enough with different vendors defining it differently?
Photoelectric:
The Market place is a free-form space for people to advertise stuff as they see fit, as long as certain basic posting rules are followed. It's up to the buyers/participants to decide if they wish to join a specific group buy or not, whether they like the stated terms, whether they trust the seller. The "Buyer Beware" stands for it all, and whether a representation is completely fair can be debated for every single buy thread whether by a regular member or by a vendor. If you personally don't trust someone and have some moral objection to the terms of their buy, then you have the option to not participate in it.
It's not so much the [GB] / [PO] designations that you should be paying significant attention to but more to what's inside the buy description.
riotonthebay:
I feel like it's not useful to have a [GB] and [PO] designation unless there's some definition of those terms. I think that definition can be simple and still leave some room for interpretation, but it would at least give people as baseline of understanding. For example,
[GB] - Upon meeting some minimum level of interest, organizer collects funds and pays the manufacturer. The organizer is not investing significant money into the project save for prototype/design costs, and the project would not go forward if not for community participation.
[PO] - Organizer has already placed an order for a set amount of goods using their own funds. Participants are preordering, possibly to ensure they get a spot or to get some discount.
I also think that a third designation would be allowed:
[SALE] - Organizer has already paid for and produced the items, and they're now being sold. kin25's method of operating the recent TX boards is the perfect example of this -- they're items that people would normally associate with a group buy, but you're not preordering or joining a group buy, you're just buying an item he has already produced. I think it's confusing for items like this to go in Artisan Services, because people associate Artisan Services with things like artisan keycaps, cables, wrist rests, etc., not full keyboards.
edit: note that none of these definitions above mention profit or anything like that -- that's the sort of thing that's up to the buyer to discover and decide on.
chuckdee:
--- Quote from: Photoelectric on Wed, 15 February 2017, 12:57:00 ---The Market place is a free-form space for people to advertise stuff as they see fit, as long as certain basic posting rules are followed. It's up to the buyers/participants to decide if they wish to join a specific group buy or not, whether they like the stated terms, whether they trust the seller. The "Buyer Beware" stands for it all, and whether a representation is completely fair can be debated for every single buy thread whether by a regular member or by a vendor. If you personally don't trust someone and have some moral objection to the terms of their buy, then you have the option to not participate in it.
It's not so much the [GB] / [PO] designations that you should be paying significant attention to but more to what's inside the buy description.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the reply.
Photoelectric:
--- Quote from: riotonthebay on Thu, 16 February 2017, 12:35:58 ---I feel like it's not useful to have a [GB] and [PO] designation unless there's some definition of those terms. I think that definition can be simple and still leave some room for interpretation, but it would at least give people as baseline of understanding. For example,
[GB] - Upon meeting some minimum level of interest, organizer collects funds and pays the manufacturer. The organizer is not investing significant money into the project save for prototype/design costs, and the project would not go forward if not for community participation.
[PO] - Organizer has already placed an order for a set amount of goods using their own funds. Participants are preordering, possibly to ensure they get a spot or to get some discount.
--- End quote ---
It seems like there are too many different possible cases one can use to fit into a Group Buy or Preorder category. The main intention of the change is to allow vendors to post in the GB section for buys that require community funding to create a product. Perhaps we can just do away with prefixes altogether. It was just an idea to add [PO], but it's clear that it's creating more confusion than it was intended to, instead of being helpful.
--- Quote ---I also think that a third designation would be allowed:
[SALE] - Organizer has already paid for and produced the items, and they're now being sold. kin25's method of operating the recent TX boards is the perfect example of this -- they're items that people would normally associate with a group buy, but you're not preordering or joining a group buy, you're just buying an item he has already produced. I think it's confusing for items like this to go in Artisan Services, because people associate Artisan Services with things like artisan keycaps, cables, wrist rests, etc., not full keyboards.
edit: note that none of these definitions above mention profit or anything like that -- that's the sort of thing that's up to the buyer to discover and decide on.
--- End quote ---
Technically that's exactly what should go into the Classifieds. Because items on hand should be posted with photographs, timestamps, etc. In kin25's case, because he's an artisan and has a larger volume of keyboards than just a few, his thread should be in Artisan Services, just like artisans who create keycaps.
Again, Group Buys is a section for stuff that's yet to be made or purchased by organizer and requires community funds to make/purchase before distribution. For example HotKeysProject posting GB threads for keycaps that will be made based on number of orders.
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