i have no heard of these korean custom alumin(i)um keyboards, could you please provide linkage so that i may have a gander?Sure, there is a great post at deskthority: http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=255
Great concept, but why 86 key and not 87 key layout? According to this poll:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?20156-Realforce-OLD-vs-NEW
most folks prefer the 87 keys. Also, if it's programmable, extra keys are always handy! My Kinesis has 86 keys, and I often find myself wishing it had 1 or 2 extras, to allow 2 Alts AND an AltGr for instance.
So in a nutshell you take the guts of a Filco and place it in this case?
Sounds good to me. Takes care of a yellowing white case.
Recently, some nice cherry doubleshots with 2 windows keys have become available:Sorry, I forgot that I didn't post the FAQ yet. In the FAQ I explain that the Phantom PCB is fully compatible with the standard Filco layout AND the vintage Cherry layout. Centered capslock, off-center capslock, no problem!
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?20113-Official-Cherry-Double-Shot-Keycap-Set
definitely interested. so you will have PCB, mounting plate, and controller. Would buyers need to source their own Cherry switches and diodes, plus soldering them together? Sounds like a very fun project!The switches will be salvaged from the Filco. I'm not sure about diodes distribution yet, but they are so cheap it hardly matters anyways. And yes, this will require desoldering the old switches and soldering everything together again :)
Any ballpark on price?It depends heavily on the quantity. We don't have final quotes yet, especially for the mounting plates.
Sent from my EVO
Are you considering swappable CTRL/CAPS LOCKS keycaps?Amen to that and I'm placing interest.
@mtl The color of the mounting plates is not yet decided, we might make a poll for that.
Why don't you just deliver it as unpainted metal and let people painted it whatever they want? Metal isn't exactly hard to spray paint.
Plus bare metal would look cool.
The Teensy will be mounted on the backside of the PCB, it is a pretty tight fit but there is room there. It will require some care when soldering but this should be no big problem.Is the Teensy included with purchase of the PCB+Mounting plate?
@dox Hmm, maybe. PrinsValium is the guy when it comes to evaluating that option. But if it does not collide with anything else on the board, I see no reason not to include it.
I really like this. However, will a Leopold Tenkeyless be able to house this?I remember seeing a picture of the Leopold's PCB somewhere, and it didn't look compatible. I could be wrong though.
I really like this. However, will a Leopold Tenkeyless be able to house this?
I found the pics from the Leopold tenkeyless disassembly http://monda.hu/blog/2011/05/20/fc200rcab-leopold-tenkeyless-tactile-click-keyboard-disassembly
Here's one of them:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/W9Xur.jpg)
It doesn't look good, there is a big hole in the LED area :/
I have a G81-1800 with slightly shorter spacebar and the mounting points are not exactly Cherry or FILCO like,
Is it possible to use these?
kaiserreich has hit upon an idea. I'd be far happier modding a g81-#### case and leaving my filco unsullied. Would the pcb be compatible with a cherry case?
the ML87 bottom case looks very similar to the Filco bottom case. See ripster's open filco case wiki here for a picture: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6342
I just disassembled my PLU ml87 out of interest so I thought maybe there would be interest here. I would like to have Cherries even on that board so I'm interested in the Phantom too. Otherwise (keycaps, stailizers), the ml87 seem to be rather close copy of the Filco.
(Attachment) 22447[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 22448[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 22449[/ATTACH]
I just stumbled onto this.
Why not move Mohammed to the Mountain?
Sig>Mods>Keys>Changing Cherry Corp Stepped Capslock to Centered (works for any key really.......)
Also, I'm kinda into OCN/Ducky/KBC engraved PBTs these days.
Does the PLU have rubber feet - both lowered and raised?
(Attachment) 22510[/ATTACH]
Did someone ask about the Leopold FC200R? I mean the had at least the same designer.Yes, the Leopold did come up. Sadly it has a different internal layout, especially the holes are in different places. One hole would interfere with the LED's on the Filco.
Using a Plu to for this mod instead of a FILCO certainly brings the cost down.
But that god awful sticker on the PLU still need to some work for it to go away
Case bottom from shapeways for an 87 key board is ~$100 US plus shipping, in White/Strong/Flexible Move on up to the acrylic based 'Black Detail' for the low low price of $308 US plus shipping.
Hmm, kind of with Ripster on this one. After buying a few different types of custom keys now I'm equally in love with both my KBC PBTs and my blue Topres (though, dear god, someone make a 103U non-ABS spacebar pleaseeeeeeeeeee).
Good luck, though! I'm always in support of people doing crazy **** to further keyboard tinkering! This could set a great precedent for future projects, especially if you guys team up with the wasdkeyboards.com guys eventually!
Yes.... It's not entirely on those images he posted, but the way it was done is to make a oval slot to accommodate the large round protrusion of the switch in the 2 locations.
I may have gone a bit over the top. My project manager will have to judge on that.
YES, silkscreen will be on both sides.
It's looking better and better every time!
HaveANiceDay, I know you have my name on the list already. Do we need to note how many we are interested in? I think I want to get 2 :-).Not at this time, but I assumed some will want more than 1 set, myself included.
I would pay extra if you supported the Leopold.
Perhaps 50$ more?
It'd be sweet if that is possible but there's a good chance that it won't be.
The ML-87 compatibility is huge though, makes getting a shell for one of these much cheaper. I think I'd have a hard time shelling out $140 for a filco only to scrap most of it.
HaveANiceDay, this will essentially be solder on your own switches and you are good to go right? If it's gonna be like the korean kits where you have to be a soldering god and solder on the chips as well, I might be SOL.
Yes, you will only need to do the soldering. And uploading the firmware, but that is super simple as long as you're not going for some personal customization. The Teensy pins are 0.1" spaced. A steady hand helps but I do it with a pretty thick solder iron tip myself.
Buying extra switches from mouser or elsewhere makes it possible to just save the old innards of the Filco and make a complete new one, for easy switching back.
How many connections from the Teensy to the board are there?
Also, how is the progress coming, any ETA? Is there a long process to get these manufactured?
We would need 1-sized windows keycaps for in between CTRL and ALT, but luckily there are cheap Cherry boards with just the right keycaps available.
Welcome to Geekhack.
Doubleshot Windows keys from Cherry Corp don't exist AFAIK.
Unless this odd Korean model had it.
(Attachment) 23094[/ATTACH]
i'm interested!
Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=22528&d=1311793647)Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=22527&d=1311793639)
PrinsValium, is it possible to add a hole between the G, H, and B keys for trackpoint mods? According to input nirvana's mod (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8110), it needs to be about 13/64" (a little over 5mm).
any thoughts on using a "quick stem change" plate design as has been kicked around here before?
stole this from a post in another thread
http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=22587&d=1311861100
that would just make this all kinds of awesome all over.
NB: I haven't actually tried this mod; but once the rest of the stuff I've ordered shows up, I may try it when I change the space bar switch on this WASD I'm typing on (for some reason they used a blue switch for the space bar instead of using a similar but stiffer switch like Cherry does) to see if it really works and if it negatively affects switch stability at all. If I do that before anyone else does I'll be sure to post.
Edit: it's probably waaaaaay too late to suggest this, but have you given any thought to making the PCB such that it can be used on a Filco 104 as well, with a cut line to hack off the unused numpad area for use on a TKL? that would be even more awesome.
Thanks, PrinsValium!
The hole should be located such that, after key caps are installed, the hole is centered horizontally between right edge of G & left edge of H, and vertically between bottom edge of G|H and top edge of B. zmurf has some pictures of the keyboard membrane and a hole he drilled (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:11420), to get an idea. Lowpoly also posted some work-in-progress pictures up here of his Guru keyboard, but I can't seem to find them now. Maybe zmurf, input nirvana, lowpoly, or ricercar (or someone else) can comment on the specific dimensions? I don't have a TrackPoint stick yet to measure it -- perhaps in a week or two.
Here are a couple pictures for inspiration: 1 (http://martin.iturbide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/black_trackpoint-010.jpg), 2 (http://kmkz.jp/blog/media/1/20080419-R0012477.JPG)
The first problem with the quick-stem-change-cutouts is that no-one has done it so no-one actually knows how much space would be required (at least that I know of). There is not a whole lot of space left between the holes as it is and the plate needs to have some sort of stability.
The second problem is that it actually increases the risk of pulling the switch apart when pulling keycaps off. This has happened to me more than once and it is usually a rather catastrophic event in the life of a Cherry switch =P
Making the PCB full size increases the price somewhat and most people here just haven't realized the awesomeness of the numpad (why is beyond me...) and would probably just see it as a hassle to have to cut it off. The full size Filco is also constructed somewhat differently than the tenkeyless. It would be possible to combine those functionalities but I don't think it will happen this time around.
And what would the exact size of the hole be?The hole on the Lenovo USB trackpoint keyboard is 8mm. However, there are 3 other holes for mounting screws. While it's possible to accommodate them between the key switches, these holes are different depending on the trackpoint unit. There are pictures on this forum of trackpoints with 4 mounting holes, for example. So I'm not sure there's a universal set of holes you can drill through (or route traces around) the PCB for all trackpoint units. However, drilling the main hole where the trackpoint goes through would be helpful, especially on the mounting plate since that hole is harder for people to make (can get away with fastening mounting screws to the PCB, not going all the way through the switch plate). The center hole doesn't need to be 8mm. You can get away with as little as 4mm with the parts I have.
Bump to keep this alive. Any new updates? The wait is killing me.
Any way to do a stuffing option in case you'd prefer to use Filco compatible keys? Like the KBCs for example? Should be just a matter of a few extra pads and mounting holes. Extra traces might be a PITA though.
I'm more interested in just getting a Teensy stuffable PCB myself.
And I'm not so sure about this applying to Cherry Corps. The Filco/Leopold main cluster to nav cluster is smaller than IBMs.
Somebody measure their PLU-87.
(Attachment) 26081[/ATTACH]
At least he didn't run with the group buy money like weipim did.
If HaveANiceDay doesn't return to manage this thing though, there will be no PCBs at all.
If HaveANiceDay doesn't return to manage this thing though, there will be no PCBs at all.
Cool project. Plans for full nkro over usb? (yes, its possible. At least 2 ghers are doing it with teensy / teensy++). I wish I'd hung on to that filco TKL now, i could have swapped in clears and had a super *****in' board!
6KRO is fine. 18 (leopolds) is almost overkill, I guess useful in the rare occasion when 2 players share the same keyboard and both of them will need to push 9 keys each at the same time. HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
Is full NKRO worth the trouble? Who will use more than 18 fingers on a keyboard simultaneously? One reason I chose a Poker over a Noppoo, is the silly NKRO making the Noppoo finicky with linux and incompatible with macs.
Soarer has the best controller out there.
Sure, Leopold has the best controller out there.
Soarer has the best controller out there.
The $40 Rapoo has the best controller out there, bar none.
Fully HW programmable without any custom stinking drivers.
This is why the Filco Red Limited Edition I'm typing on spews out so many posts.Just imagine what an USB 3.0 keyboard could do.
I believe the Black Widow just auto sets it at 1000Hz.
I think, though am not certain, that the Gen2 Filcos may be 1000Hz. This is why the Filco Red Limited Edition I'm typing on spews out so many posts.
What it is that makes the noppoo incompatible, I don't know, but it isn't the NKRO as such. We've examined some of the >6KRO implementations and found a variety of issues - each implementation seems to have a different one somehow!
What I've *heard* is that the Noppoo actually reports to the PC as several different keyboard controllers, each with 6KRO.
The other thing that makes life easy for >6KRO is using Full Speed USB - most of these flaky ones insist on sticking with Low Speed to save a few cents :(
HaveANiceDay!!!! Where are you?
HaveANiceDay!!!! Where are you?
I have sent him an email asking what's up, and if he wants me/us to carry on with this without him in a managing position.
I could order the PCBs and have them sent to me, distributing boards to Europe from me, and sending a package of all US boards to someone across the pond. They would be manufactured by pcbwing in China and they didn't seem to bother to write a correct value last time. So Swedish sales tax will probably not apply anyhow.
The mounting plates on the other hand, I don't know where to have them produced. I could do it locally here, but then there will be sales tax and I don't know how to and/or have the time to arrange with having it withdrawn on international transfers. If anyone knows of good non-european shops to do the water cutting, speak up!
Any ideas how much the PCBs would cost?
What are the differences between 140 and 170? I am in for 2 either case.
I don't know exactly how that stuff works, but it somehow represents how much heat the material can take. They are really represented in °s 140°C and 170°C. I think it might be best to go with the higher rating, since we amateurs are going to be messing around with our not always too high end soldering skills =) Lead free solder also melts at a higher temperature i think. Also in this case I guess de-soldering might come into question at some point, which probably subjects the board to even higher temperatures (since that is always a mess). Try googling "tg glass transition pcb" if you are curious...
If I am not overlooking anything in the price quote form the PCBs will be RoHS-compliant.
This might be interesting http://www.fast-product-development.com/pcb-materials-and-specifications.html
I'd opt for the 170 as well. It's not that big of a price difference.
Okay, sorry, I'll leave the post above for information purposes, but I realize now that what i'm asking isn't possible while re-using the Filco/PLU/Leo housing and plate, since the switch holes wouldn't line up.
I guess i'd need to have a new plate cut to address this ala Dox. Something to think about, but either way, I'm quite interested in this project as it would facilitate the custom controller I desire.
One last question though, has any thought been provided to allow additonal LEDs on any of the last 4 function keys or even an option to swap out the pause key for numlock with an LED as well?
Just ideas.
I don't understand the PCB layout. Is it supposed to take 1.5 units modifiers with 1 unit keys between them, plus a 7 units space bar? Or 1.25 units modifiers and a 6.25 units space bar?
Also, is it possible to fit 4 extra key mounts left and right of the 7 units space bar main switch?
Would be great to have mounting holes in row 3 right from the SW:12 key to fit a 1.25 unit return key.
If yes, I'd be interested in more than one, if the price isn't killing me!
Thanks!
Just another thought:
What if there are bridges used for the connection between the cursor area and the main keyboard?
If there are no connections on the PCB itself, the HHKB clone would be easily made by just cutting off the cursor section!
It is designed to take either a
1.50 - 1.00 - 1.50 - 7.00 - 1.50 - 1.00 - 1.50
or a
1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 6.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25
setup for the space bar row.
I'm not sure of what the exact locations of your extra keys in that row are supposed to be located. Could you specify the width of all keys in the space bar row setup you'd like?
I can certainly add the extra 1.25 enter switch.
I don't think there will be any problem just chopping off unwanted sections of the PCB. There should be no traces venturing back and forth between the different sections. The controller will of course be lost cutting away the function row. It would have to be attached by wires in that case. I've done a mod like this to make a tenkeyless out of my symmetric stagger board. It works but it isn't pretty...
[...]
Whatever rocks your boat I guess ; )
[PCB OF A DREAM KEYBOARD]
So what are the next steps? Wasn't BiNi investigating the metal plate before he went to Europe or something?
Cool! Let's start the order list :-)
I am in for 2.
What do you guys think about this:
- start a order thread here on GH and on Deskthority, count how many we need to make. What is the miniumum number of PCBs before we close? What does the volume discount look like?
- calculate how much each kit should cost: PCB + plate + shipping to distributor + paypal fee + shipping to buyer (may cost more if need second shippment form the US to our European distributor
- collect money to initiate PCB and plate orders
- BiNiaRiS orders some plates, it would be great if we can order the minimum order to make sure the plate is correct and matches the PCB
- Once plates are confirmed to be correct, then PrinsValium can order PCBs
- Need to find a European distrubutor (7bit?), if there aren't any, we will need to do it from the US
- It would be great if BiNiaRiS can receive PCBs and get the plates done so they can be sent out together. I would be happy to help with distribution, but I'd rather not deal with money :-)
- will need to decide what to do with ordering switches and diodes (part of the kit or source switches on your own)
- same thing for stabilizers
What am I missing?
B) The whole point of this board was to use Cherry bottom row keys in a Filco case...
It is designed to take either a
1.50 - 1.00 - 1.50 - 7.00 - 1.50 - 1.00 - 1.50
or a
1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 6.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25
setup for the space bar row.
Thanks, but I am wonder specifically about the key combination
1.5 1 1.5 -- 6 -- 1.5 1 1 1.5.
The 6 key wide space bar is a bit special. It is from a G80-1800, G80-11800 or G80-11900 with windows keys, but it does not fit
on a G80-1800 without windows keys or on a G80-3000 with windows keys.
Thanks, but I am wonder specifically about the key combination
1.5 1 1.5 -- 6 -- 1.5 1 1 1.5.
The 6 key wide space bar is a bit special. It is from a G80-1800, G80-11800 or G80-11900 with windows keys, but it does not fit
on a G80-1800 without windows keys or on a G80-3000 with windows keys.
Quote from: Findecanor;444031Thanks, but I am wonder specifically about the key combinationThis is the setup used on Realforces as well. I would have to look through this at home. If there is room for switch locations. There probably are a few more needed at least. I would have to know where the stems of the space bar is located as well. A mounting plate would probably need to be special order as well.
1.5 1 1.5 -- 6 -- 1.5 1 1 1.5.
The 6 key wide space bar is a bit special. It is from a G80-1800, G80-11800 or G80-11900 with windows keys, but it does not fit
on a G80-1800 without windows keys or on a G80-3000 with windows keys.
I think I just did squish the additional mount locations in there =) I need to know the stem locations of all keys to be sure though. I assumed all centered for now. So now the PCB will actually be HHKB layout compatible for real..
You'll have to excuse me for not reading thirteen pages of chatter, but the FAQ doesn't cover some stuff I'm curious about.The Group Buy (http://tinyurl.com/7t2wum6) has more info
- What sort of rollover will this support. By any chance, will it be able to do full NKEY over USB like some of the community's other teensy controllers(Soarer (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:17458), etc)?
- Also, what happens if we haven't got a Filco case to put this in?
- Does the PCB support PCB mounted switches? It might be nice to have an easily modded board, sans-plate.
Thanks.:confused:
TheProfosist is correct. We are at 6KRO now. It would be great if someone would help port Soarer's NKRO code to Phantom.There is also Hazu's code that is used on the DOX.
3. Does the PCB support PCB mounted switches? It might be nice to have an easily modded board, sans-plate.
I think I remember reading that the plate would have access holes to facilitate solderless switch modding. Is that right?Yes, I also remember H shape holes being discussed.
There is also Hazu's code that is used on the DOX.
I think I remember reading that the plate would have access holes to facilitate solderless switch modding. Is that right?
Yes, the H switch cut out "should" let use open up switches without de-soldering the switch. We still have to test it with a prototype. Also, a few switches may still require de-soldering due to limited space or switch arrange. But the majority of them will not need to be de-soldered.
Sweet indeed! How is it the entire keyboard industry can't come up with this stuff?Cost
Deeply interested
Deeply interestedKeep checking the classifieds and post a WTB, you may get lucky. That's how I got mine.
Deeply interestedThis guy is just trying to get to classifieds.