[GB] SA Retro [Closed]

[Photoelectric]

It didn't work out with MassDrop for GMK because there were too many separate options, and it was a pricy set.  I think it should have just been a single base set with maybe a novelties-style addon of the gray function row stripe and another optional add-on of all brown modifiers.  The fact that there were too many kits was a complaint from a number of people on MassDrop, and also for some silly reason some people feel the need to say that this set must not be made in any profile other than spherical (though 2 such runs have already been made, and GMK clearly already has had set the SA colors matched, probably in preparation for this set).  It's up to the set designer to decide the profile as well, and the set designer was clearly interested in running it with GMK too.  I think slimming down to a single base kit with 1 or 2 optional addons is going to do better.

[packman86]

I would absolutely love to buy the GMK Retro Burgundy set if they ever run it.

[LightningXI]

I'd be in for both gmk and sa if it all happened again

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[Jedi]

I agree that a base kit with a "extras" novelty kit, spacebar kit, and ergo/planck kit is the way to go. The second, in my opinion, much more real reason the GMK drop flopped that has been all too common with Massdrop is when for whatever reason why, MD decides not to issue a pre release announcement or any notice at all and just expected the community to flock in and buy 250 MOQ.

My opinion but, in general 250 is a pretty low number, and the community is still not big enough to buy in on custom sets that nobody knows is coming.

Be rational and let the community know what's expected and give us the courtesy to review the set and help it reach MOQ before the "drop".  Group buys need support to be successful. 

[TheEerieCold]

A very classic set that many of us would love to see run again, in either form. I think the main reason the MD drop failed was the community was not as large at the time, something others have said . I have serious doubts that it would fail again given how popular the set is and the fact that you don't need tons of extra kits now with GMK to fit most layouts. MD needs to stop with the surprises and promote stuff more before it actually launches.

[oh_chesteroni]

I agree that a base kit with a "extras" novelty kit, spacebar kit, and ergo/planck kit is the way to go. The second, in my opinion, much more real reason the GMK drop flopped that has been all too common with Massdrop is when for whatever reason why, MD decides not to issue a pre release announcement or any notice at all and just expected the community to flock in and buy 250 MOQ.

My opinion but, in general 250 is a pretty low number, and the community is still not big enough to buy in on custom sets that nobody knows is coming.

Be rational and let the community know what's expected and give us the courtesy to review the set and help it reach MOQ before the "drop".  Group buys need support to be successful.

Interesting insight. I haven't been around long enough to witness the gmk retro flop, but this may also explain the mint dolch flop as well.

[Matt3o]

the problem is the double burgundy/brown options that doesn't let us group kits very well. GMK don't like that and I'm not willing to pick one. Retro is originally brown, burgundy should be just an accent (like arrow keys) but that option wouldn't be very popular.

[Puddsy]

the problem is the double burgundy/brown options that doesn't let us group kits very well. GMK don't like that and I'm not willing to pick one. Retro is originally brown, burgundy should be just an accent (like arrow keys) but that option wouldn't be very popular.

brown with red modkit

ez

[packman86]

the problem is the double burgundy/brown options that doesn't let us group kits very well. GMK don't like that and I'm not willing to pick one. Retro is originally brown, burgundy should be just an accent (like arrow keys) but that option wouldn't be very popular.

It's it not possible to do a big base kit like all the other GMK sets that are running these days with the brown alphas and burgundy mods?  The old MD page has everything split in different kits and I don't see many GMK drops like that anymore.

[Photoelectric]

the problem is the double burgundy/brown options that doesn't let us group kits very well. GMK don't like that and I'm not willing to pick one. Retro is originally brown, burgundy should be just an accent (like arrow keys) but that option wouldn't be very popular.

Based on the original DSA Retro orders, from what I could tell, the Burgundy mods were significantly more popular than brown mods/gray stripe version.  I don’t see why you can’t do one base kit inclusive with numpad of brown + burgundy (with green accents and also with side print on alphas), and then a single addon option of brown modifiers + gray stripe.

[bmmcwhirt]

I recently bought a set of R1 True Retro with PetSCII but it has two , keys and no . key. 

I would very much like to get a . key to complete this set and I might be in for another complete set as well as some others that were not part of my buy.

I posted a classified not long ago seeking to buy the key I am missing:   https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=95386.0

[vewy_nice]

...and also for some silly reason some people feel the need to say that this set must not be made in any profile other than spherical...

Just like Space Cadet

I honestly don't think mono-brown would sell well, either. I think the statute of limitations has passed on this one for the "MUST BE ORIGINAL" die-hards... Especially since it's a lot easier to get actual real C64 keys (and build a keyboard with SKCC or something) than it is to source OG space cadet terminal keys... "Don't like the burgundy? Go part out a C64."

I'd want brown/burgundy.

[zslane]

When all you're doing is copying a colorway, like say Dolch, it doesn't really matter what the profile is (cylindrical or spherical). After all, the profile of the original doesn't play a part in what makes it interesting or distinctive. But in the case of sets like Space Cadet or Retro, which are much more than just colorway exercises, then things like profile and legend style/placement take center stage, and it makes little to no sense to diverge from the original while still claiming to be in tribute/honor of it.

[romevi]

When all you're doing is copying a colorway, like say Dolch, it doesn't really matter what the profile is (cylindrical or spherical). After all, the profile of the original doesn't play a part in what makes it interesting or distinctive. But in the case of sets like Space Cadet or Retro, which are much more than just colorway exercises, then things like profile and legend style/placement take center stage, and it makes little to no sense to diverge from the original while still claiming to be in tribute/honor of it.

Yeah, the GMK iteration didn't really feel like SA Retro. SA Retro has the profile and shape of the caps to make it feel like...GMK Retro. The PETSCII mods, all of it.
I prefer Cherry profile any day, but to me the only true version of the set is the SA profile. DSA and GMK are a no-go for me on it.

[vewy_nice]

I'd feel weird if the GMK set had the front legends, but the colorway wouldn't feel like "cheating" to me, really...

Anyway, I'm excited for any iteration, it's going to look so good on my red CA66

[zslane]

Yeah, the GMK iteration didn't really feel like SA Retro the Commodore 64. SA Retro has the profile and shape of the caps to make it feel like...GMK Retro the Commodore 64. The PETSCII mods, all of it.

I've corrected the critical elements of your point, which I completely agree with. 

[Photoelectric]

When all you're doing is copying a colorway, like say Dolch, it doesn't really matter what the profile is (cylindrical or spherical). After all, the profile of the original doesn't play a part in what makes it interesting or distinctive. But in the case of sets like Space Cadet or Retro, which are much more than just colorway exercises, then things like profile and legend style/placement take center stage, and it makes little to no sense to diverge from the original while still claiming to be in tribute/honor of it.

Yeah, the GMK iteration didn't really feel like SA Retro. SA Retro has the profile and shape of the caps to make it feel like...GMK Retro. The PETSCII mods, all of it.
I prefer Cherry profile any day, but to me the only true version of the set is the SA profile. DSA and GMK are a no-go for me on it.

Isn't that beside the point though?  Artistic freedom is already exercised even with the Retro set, so what makes it *require* a certain profile?  What about people who just want that colorway and look but on Cherry profile and don't care that it's not perfectly original?  Technically you can say that you must only put these on a beige keyboard too, or else it's not authentic enough.  Might as well also toss all the burgundy and green accents from previous runs, because they aren't in the original colorway.

[romevi]

When all you're doing is copying a colorway, like say Dolch, it doesn't really matter what the profile is (cylindrical or spherical). After all, the profile of the original doesn't play a part in what makes it interesting or distinctive. But in the case of sets like Space Cadet or Retro, which are much more than just colorway exercises, then things like profile and legend style/placement take center stage, and it makes little to no sense to diverge from the original while still claiming to be in tribute/honor of it.

Yeah, the GMK iteration didn't really feel like SA Retro. SA Retro has the profile and shape of the caps to make it feel like...GMK Retro. The PETSCII mods, all of it.
I prefer Cherry profile any day, but to me the only true version of the set is the SA profile. DSA and GMK are a no-go for me on it.

Isn't that beside the point though?  Artistic freedom is already exercised even with the Retro set, so what makes it *require* a certain profile?  What about people who just want that colorway and look but on Cherry profile and don't care that it's not perfectly original?  Technically you can say that you must only put these on a beige keyboard too, or else it's not authentic enough.  Might as well also toss all the burgundy and green accents from previous runs, because they aren't in the original colorway.

I made one error in my post. Meant to say "SA Retro" after the ellipses.

But I'm not referring to the C64. I'm referring to the caps themselves. To me, the pinnacle of its look is in SA form.
I think HyperFuse looks best in GMK form. It looks ridiculous as SA.
Same difference.

I thought I wanted a GMK Retro before it was released on Massdrop, but once it was it didn't look right to me. The overall aesthetic just didn't transfer over well in my eyes. To me, the profile and typeface itself also adds to the aesthetic of this set, I realize now.
I don't like SA profile at all. For me, Cherry all the way. But I NEED SA Retro (again).

[Photoelectric]

I actually think the original DSA Hyper Fuse is the best, and likewise DSA Retro rather than SA Retro.  Ain't no room on those short DSA caps for PETSCII legends though   (My previous response is more to the summary of comments I've read about people saying "it's gotta be spherical".  I've wanted this set in Cherry profile since before it was announced on Massdrop, and it was a huge disappointment when that drop failed.  Been patiently waiting ever since for another chance.  Which is to say years.)

[zslane]

Isn't that beside the point though?  Artistic freedom is already exercised even with the Retro set, so what makes it *require* a certain profile?

Require is perhaps too strong a word. However, it is evident from the design of SA Retro that it is intended to evoke the look and feel of the Commodore 64 keyboard. You can't do that to any degree of success with cylindrical keycaps and corner legends. Reducing SA Retro to "just a colorway" completely misses the point.

[kokokoy]

Hope there would be a shift fix kit on this one.

[zslane]

Not to worry. At this point, SP only makes row 4 SHIFT keys with the adjusted legend, unless specified otherwise by a designer (and who would do that?).

[romevi]

Anyone remember the prices? Trying to calculate in advance to ensure the proper funds are set aside.
I recall selling my Burgundy set, Lime extension, and extra spacebars for around ~$115, so that's what I'm targeting right now.

[Oblotzky]

Anyone remember the prices? Trying to calculate in advance to ensure the proper funds are set aside.
I recall selling my Burgundy set, Lime extension, and extra spacebars for around ~$115, so that's what I'm targeting right now.

Nuclear Data Base kit was full 104key coverage for 125$, but uniform and all same color. So a few more mold changes for Retro, plus color swapping plus the PETSCII sideprints I'd say 150$ for the same coverage. Addon kits were nicely priced for ND as well

[clasicks]

Anyone remember the prices? Trying to calculate in advance to ensure the proper funds are set aside.
I recall selling my Burgundy set, Lime extension, and extra spacebars for around ~$115, so that's what I'm targeting right now.

From the recent PMK SA ND drop this was base, novelties, and most comp minus EU



I would expect an upcharge for full sculpt, side printing, and colors as Oblotzky mentioned.

[romevi]

Thanks!
I will expect to budget around $175, then. I'm looking to get back what I parted with, which was the Burgundy base set and Lime extension.

I'm still waiting for the num pad set from the previous run, but maybe I should pick up a set of that too--just in case.

[Matt3o]

people who say that Retro must be SA seem to forget that the burgundy+brown+green colorway is actually inspired by the OPD PC (circa 1984).



that has a profile more similar to cherry than SA.

That being said Retro started as a C64 tribute (we even have the logo), that's why burgundy makes little sense.

[Photoelectric]

people who say that Retro must be SA seem to forget that the burgundy+brown+green colorway is actually inspired by the OPD PC (circa 1984).

Show Image

that has a profile more similar to cherry than SA.

That being said Retro started as a C64 tribute (we even have the logo), that's why burgundy makes little sense.

Wow, thanks for this--I was wondering where the green and burgundy came from!

I'm going to continue campaigning for a burgundy/brown/PETSCII legends GMK set until it someday, maybe will make it on my keyboard.  The very first set I wanted--and still want--since I started reading geekhack, back when the first DSA Retro GB was going on.  Turned out I didn't like typing on DSA.  However I'd rather type on DSA than on the wobbly, awkwardly tall SA on Cherry switches, even if they look all cool and retro.

[Matt3o]

Wow, thanks for this--I was wondering where the green and burgundy came from!

I'm going to continue campaigning for a burgundy/brown/PETSCII legends GMK set until it someday, maybe will make it on my keyboard.  The very first set I wanted--and still want--since I started reading geekhack, back when the first DSA Retro GB was going on.  Turned out I didn't like typing on DSA.  However I'd rather type on DSA than on the wobbly, awkwardly tall SA on Cherry switches, even if they look all cool and retro.

find me someone willing to take care of the logistics and I'll make it happen I did that in the past but now I have a life

[packman86]

Wow, thanks for this--I was wondering where the green and burgundy came from!

I'm going to continue campaigning for a burgundy/brown/PETSCII legends GMK set until it someday, maybe will make it on my keyboard.  The very first set I wanted--and still want--since I started reading geekhack, back when the first DSA Retro GB was going on.  Turned out I didn't like typing on DSA.  However I'd rather type on DSA than on the wobbly, awkwardly tall SA on Cherry switches, even if they look all cool and retro.

find me someone willing to take care of the logistics and I'll make it happen I did that in the past but now I have a life

Dixiemech or perhaps Novelkeys in the US?

[Photoelectric]

Wow, thanks for this--I was wondering where the green and burgundy came from!

I'm going to continue campaigning for a burgundy/brown/PETSCII legends GMK set until it someday, maybe will make it on my keyboard.  The very first set I wanted--and still want--since I started reading geekhack, back when the first DSA Retro GB was going on.  Turned out I didn't like typing on DSA.  However I'd rather type on DSA than on the wobbly, awkwardly tall SA on Cherry switches, even if they look all cool and retro.

find me someone willing to take care of the logistics and I'll make it happen I did that in the past but now I have a life

If one of the vendors, as mentioned above, can't be convinced to do it, I could see about helping

[avid]

Donutcables maybe?

[GarrettSucks]

Dont hesitate to contact me! Im always open to discuss project possibilities. No promises, as I do not like to just rush into a project unless I know I can do good by the project and help make it successful. But hit me up and well talk about it.

[packman86]

Dont hesitate to contact me! Im always open to discuss project possibilities. No promises, as I do not like to just rush into a project unless I know I can do good by the project and help make it successful. But hit me up and well talk about it.

Dixiemech did an awesome job on the GMK 9009 R2 just few months ago.

[mgsickler]

Yea, I am always open to do this! Garrett from DixieMech also does a great job!

[Puddsy]

Dont hesitate to contact me! Im always open to discuss project possibilities. No promises, as I do not like to just rush into a project unless I know I can do good by the project and help make it successful. But hit me up and well talk about it.

Dixiemech did an awesome job on the GMK 9009 R2 just few months ago.

please dixiemech, switchmod, or kono store

[Matt3o]

It's a very peculiar set, it always has been. DSA Retro did exceptionally well mostly because DSA was a novelty at the time.

I'm pretty confident that a GMK set wouldn't oversell, but if anyone is seriously interested in the endeavor, please contact me privately and we can discuss.

I believe that on GMK the color scheme should be something like the OPD PC I posted above. Mainly brown with burgundy splash and green accent (and no side legends).

[bun]

Glad to hear that petscii will be rerun.... I really want a petscii set with those green accents.

Dat green commdore keycap tho 

[ihalatch]

It's a very peculiar set, it always has been. DSA Retro did exceptionally well mostly because DSA was a novelty at the time.

I'm pretty confident that a GMK set wouldn't oversell, but if anyone is seriously interested in the endeavor, please contact me privately and we can discuss.

I believe that on GMK the color scheme should be something like the OPD PC I posted above. Mainly brown with burgundy splash and green accent (and no side legends).

Isn't it going to be SA? I hope will have another SA Retro run.

[Matt3o]

DSA SA Retro is already booked and will be released in summer.

[Oblotzky]

DSA Retro is already booked and will be released in summer.

Typo? Or are we getting both SA and DSA?

[Matt3o]

typo, sorry

[Photoelectric]

I believe that on GMK the color scheme should be something like the OPD PC I posted above. Mainly brown with burgundy splash and green accent (and no side legends).

Hmm, can’t unsee the side print on the first GMK attempt on Massdrop...

[romevi]

I believe that on GMK the color scheme should be something like the OPD PC I posted above. Mainly brown with burgundy splash and green accent (and no side legends).

Hmm, can’t unsee the side print on the first GMK attempt on Massdrop...

There was side print? I didn't remember that!

I joined the original GMK GB. It's the only unsuccessful drop in my transaction history. 

[Photoelectric]

Yep, it was part of the base kit:

[romevi]

Yep, it was part of the base kit:

Show Image

I guess now it all depends what the price difference is. While I think the look fits the SA profile better, I will use the Cherry profile more.
I personally don't think the scheme transfers as well to GMK, but since all the other bells and whistles are there, my interest is rising again.

[Oblotzky]

I'd still love to see the kits before they go into production if all possible. Assuming the current plan is to rerun the old kits and the only change being PETSCII alphas only, I would suggest the following changes:

R2 Page Up and R3 Page Down added to pro-mods to accommodate modern 65% layouts, such as your whitefox.
FUNCTION instead of FN on 1.5u and 1.75u keys
CONTROL written out on 1.5u keys

IMO Space for legends should be used whenever possible and does not result in cramped text.

[LightningXI]

I'd still love to see the kits before they go into production if all possible. Assuming the current plan is to rerun the old kits and the only change being PETSCII alphas only, I would suggest the following changes:

R2 Page Up and R3 Page Down added to pro-mods to accommodate modern 65% layouts, such as your whitefox.
FUNCTION instead of FN on 1.5u and 1.75u keys
CONTROL written out on 1.5u keys

IMO Space for legends should be used whenever possible and does not result in cramped text.

Show Image

I support this idea as well.

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[oh_chesteroni]

x3 ^

[speyer]

Have there been any further updates? Would we be getting the dark grey function keys?