Need some help on Model M bolt mod/rivet replacement

[vivalarevolución]

Sorry if I am being redundant, but I have searched Geekhack, but I am having some trouble finding a good Model M bolt mod thread with pictures and detailed instructions.  Could anybody point me towards a good bolt mod/rivet replacement thread?

[fohat.digs]

This is a pretty good one. "Sandy's Bolt Mod" was the best but appears to be gone now.

I recommend a chisel tip for your X-acto knife instead of a real chisel. With a fresh blade it is also best for shaving the tops of the rivets flat.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Modifications:IBM_Model_M:Nut_and_Bolt_Mod

[vivalarevolución]

This is a pretty good one. "Sandy's Bolt Mod" was the best but appears to be gone now.

I recommend a chisel tip for your X-acto knife instead of a real chisel. With a fresh blade it is also best for shaving the tops of the rivets flat.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Modifications:IBM_Model_M:Nut_and_Bolt_Mod

Thanks.  There is a link to a mod by Sandy in the wiki article.  Is this the one your were referring to, or was the good one more detailed?

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/repair_model_m.html


I got a 1390120 and when I finally opened it up, about half the rivets came tumbling down.  "Well, I might as well learn how to a bolt mod," I said.

[fohat.digs]

The old Sandy's was far more detailed and better.

If you are good with your hands, you can make it work.

[Larken]

there's also http://silverlinux.blogspot.sg/2012/08/ibm-model-m-1391401-bolt-mod-rivet.html

and http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1024488

same person, but with different levels of detail in each. I believe he was also a geekhack poster who posted a similar modding log on gh, but that thread's pictures went down.

[vivalarevolución]

there's also http://silverlinux.blogspot.sg/2012/08/ibm-model-m-1391401-bolt-mod-rivet.html

and http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1024488

same person, but with different levels of detail in each. I believe he was also a geekhack poster who posted a similar modding log on gh, but that thread's pictures went down.

wow thanks those are phenomenally detailed.

[vivalarevolución]

Also this picture from one of those link is a perfect representation of cats.  Cat says, "I am in your way, I do not care, and I am too lazy to move even as you pile thing upon me."

[berserkfan]

Fohat, didn't you make your own bolt modding thread? I seem to remember somebody had one with lots of pictures; he also painted the backplate orange and warned us to use gloves to avoid cutting ourselves with the chisel.

Since I remember that guy warning us that we need the right good tools to suspend the plate upside down and to drill precisely in the middle of each rivet, in my memory that thread is associated with you fohat.

This is a pretty good one. "Sandy's Bolt Mod" was the best but appears to be gone now.

I recommend a chisel tip for your X-acto knife instead of a real chisel. With a fresh blade it is also best for shaving the tops of the rivets flat.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Modifications:IBM_Model_M:Nut_and_Bolt_Mod

[fohat.digs]

I have never done a Model M thread, although I have discussed the M in my F threads.

I have considered painting an M plate, but never done it.

A wooden frame made out of scrap lumber can be a big help.

[vivalarevolución]

Alright I was doing my bolt mod and the barrel plate developed a crack.  Will this make the barrel plate useless and call for the need of a replacement?

[Aer Fixus]

Alright I was doing my bolt mod and the barrel plate developed a crack.  Will this make the barrel plate useless and call for the need of a replacement?

I have seen people repair the cracks just using super glue with some braces and I've seen people just leave the crack there and it sometimes works (sometimes unreliably).
I'd recommend at least repairing it, but for guaranteed functionality, it's probably best to buy a new one, but you can certainly make do with your current plate if you wish to take the time to repair it.

[vivalarevolución]

Alright I was doing my bolt mod and the barrel plate developed a crack.  Will this make the barrel plate useless and call for the need of a replacement?

I have seen people repair the cracks just using super glue with some braces and I've seen people just leave the crack there and it sometimes works (sometimes unreliably).
I'd recommend at least repairing it, but for guaranteed functionality, it's probably best to buy a new one, but you can certainly make do with your current plate if you wish to take the time to repair it.

Thanks.  I looked up some ways to repair plastic on Youtube.  I will probably just look for a new barrel plate because mine has so many locations that look on the verge of cracking.  I do not want to risk doing all this work and then having things crack some more, which seems inevitable at this point.

[Grr8]

Reading old threads :-).

Thanks.  I looked up some ways to repair plastic on Youtube.  I will probably just look for a new barrel plate because mine has so many locations that look on the verge of cracking.  I do not want to risk doing all this work and then having things crack some more, which seems inevitable at this point.

A new barrel plate is $20 at Unicomp (+postage). You would then need a means to melt the rivets into place (what becomes the plastic rivets are spikes out of the barrel plate). Or just cut off the spikes, and bolt it from the start.

Or you could just ask Unicomp what a "service" would cost on your keyboard. They start from $30:

http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/Repair

Back on the topic of Bolt Modding, phosphor_glow has a video of how he now does a screw mod here:

(Screw mod, because no nut is used, so the keyboard isn't bolted together, it's screwed together)

[fohat.digs]

A new barrel plate is $20 at Unicomp (+postage).

Watch for a clunker terminal M if you see one for a similar price. You will get a lot of other useful parts including springs and caps, cases, almost everything, really, except electronics and cables.

Consider hitting on sellers who have them listed at "real" M prices and wonder why they haven't sold for weeks on end. Sometimes they will revise the listing to "Buy-It-Now" with free shipping at a realistic price for you.

[Hellmark]

I recommend a chisel tip for your X-acto knife instead of a real chisel. With a fresh blade it is also best for shaving the tops of the rivets flat.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Modifications:IBM_Model_M:Nut_and_Bolt_Mod

Ditto on this. Exacto knife made it so much easier. I had my M apart in minutes when it got bolt modded.

[dorkvader]

I recommend a chisel tip for your X-acto knife instead of a real chisel. With a fresh blade it is also best for shaving the tops of the rivets flat.

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Modifications:IBM_Model_M:Nut_and_Bolt_Mod

Ditto on this. Exacto knife made it so much easier. I had my M apart in minutes when it got bolt modded.

I used a normal pocketknife for the first several, and now I use a flushcutter. Once to get the rivet off and once to make it flush. Saves a LOT of time.

Then I take a dremel out with a ball-shaped bit and make a divot in the middle. This lets me guide the drillbit a bit better.

Then I drill it. I stacked up books to keep it in place.

[Grr8]

I used a normal pocketknife for the first several, and now I use a flushcutter. Once to get the rivet off and once to make it flush. Saves a LOT of time.

That's a great tip.

I removed the leftover bits of rivets the other night with a razor blade, but a flush cutter or side cutter makes a lot more sense.

The "how to" page for the bolt mod should be updated with these tips:

http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Modifications:IBM_Model_M:Nut_and_Bolt_Mod

Using a chisel really is overkill.

Then I take a dremel out with a ball-shaped bit and make a divot in the middle. This lets me guide the drillbit a bit better.

Then I drill it. I stacked up books to keep it in place.

What does a ball-shaped dremel bit look like? I have a few, but don't think I have any that would be called "ball-shaped."

[Hellmark]

There are some different styles of ball bits, but it is quite like it sounds, where the tip is a ball.

[fohat.digs]

This is good if you have a very steady hand and a very small ball.

Another way is with a pointed tip on your soldering iron.

a flush cutter or side cutter makes a lot more sense.

The chisel tip on an X-acto works great because you can use both hands. It has to be fresh and sharp for phase 2.

[berserkfan]

Reading old threads :-).

Thanks.  I looked up some ways to repair plastic on Youtube.  I will probably just look for a new barrel plate because mine has so many locations that look on the verge of cracking.  I do not want to risk doing all this work and then having things crack some more, which seems inevitable at this point.

A new barrel plate is $20 at Unicomp (+postage). You would then need a means to melt the rivets into place (what becomes the plastic rivets are spikes out of the barrel plate). Or just cut off the spikes, and bolt it from the start.

Or you could just ask Unicomp what a "service" would cost on your keyboard. They start from $30:

http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/Repair

Back on the topic of Bolt Modding, phosphor_glow has a video of how he now does a screw mod here:

(Screw mod, because no nut is used, so the keyboard isn't bolted together, it's screwed together)

Does anyone know the difference between a screw mod and a bolt mod? I'm sure they all have their uses, but as someone who knows very little, I'd say that screw mod looks easier because you don't have to put in an additional bolt/ washer. Also there is the question of finding a nut driver in Singapore for that bolt - I can't do it. (Can't find an M2 nut driver.)

[Grr8]

Also there is the question of finding a nut driver in Singapore for that bolt - I can't do it. (Can't find an M2 nut driver.)

It's not a "M2 nut"

If using M2 screws, the usual nut for it would have a 4mm head size.

So, you need a 4mm nut driver.

Look on Hobby sites... Like here:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11111__Turnigy_4mm_Hex_Socket_Screwdriver.html

Or a small-sizes socket set might have a 4mm driver.

[fohat.digs]

If using M2 screws, the usual nut for it would have a 4mm head size.

So, you need a 4mm nut driver.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11111__Turnigy_4mm_Hex_Socket_Screwdriver.html

Or a small-sizes socket set might have a 4mm driver.

Great tool!

And yes, most of the basic socket sets only go down to 5mm.

[Hellmark]

This is the set I have. 4mm, 5mm, 5.5mm, 7mm, 8mm. Worked well for when I was working on my M. Not bad for the price either. (I bought my set from a local hobby place, but was same price as this site. Feel free to look elsewhere, just was a place that I saw sold same set).
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/5-pc-metric-nut-driver-assortment-DYN2806

[vivalarevolución]

A screw mod only uses screws and does NOT use nuts and washers to secure the screw to the internal plates.  The screws have to be driven in from the bottom plate, because they will not hold the internal parts together if they are not on the bottom.

A bolt mod uses bolts, nuts, and washers to hold together the internal parts.  It may exert extra pressure on the parts from holding them altogether if the nuts are too tight. I think some pictures would really help show the differences between the two.

[berserkfan]

A screw mod only uses screws and does NOT use nuts and washers to secure the screw to the internal plates.  The screws have to be driven in from the bottom plate, because they will not hold the internal parts together if they are not on the bottom.

A bolt mod uses bolts, nuts, and washers to hold together the internal parts.  It may exert extra pressure on the parts from holding them altogether if the nuts are too tight. I think some pictures would really help show the differences between the two.

Yup, I know the theoretical definition. But what's the difference in practice? Is the screw mod not so reliable, given that it doesn't have a bolt holding on the opposite end?

Also, isn't it better to do all the screw and bolt modding from the bottom plate? When you are installing bolt mod, to prevent the hammers jumping, you have to put them in upside down anyway. That means the bottom plate will be facing up. It is much easier to insert and screw in the screws or bolts from the top aka bottom plate facing you.

[fohat.digs]

Is the screw mod not so reliable, given that it doesn't have a bolt holding on the opposite end?

Also, isn't it better to do all the screw and bolt modding from the bottom plate? When you are installing bolt mod, to prevent the hammers jumping, you have to put them in upside down anyway. That means the bottom plate will be facing up. It is much easier to insert and screw in the screws or bolts from the top aka bottom plate facing you.

You will drill the holes through the rivet shafts from the bottom, that is, the underside when the keyboard is assembled and in use. Obviously, most of the work is done with all these parts upside-down. A simple wooden frame is a huge help here.

But you want to drive the screws through from the top, that is, when you use the keyboard you see the screw heads. Turn that over, and assemble everything from the upside-down position, and jiggle the back plate onto the protruding screw shafts. Then spin on the nuts and you are done.

A screw mod would only include drilling partial holes through broken rivet shafts and letting the screw cut its own threads into the inner surface of the hole you just drilled.

[Hypersphere]

Reading old threads :-).

Thanks.  I looked up some ways to repair plastic on Youtube.  I will probably just look for a new barrel plate because mine has so many locations that look on the verge of cracking.  I do not want to risk doing all this work and then having things crack some more, which seems inevitable at this point.

A new barrel plate is $20 at Unicomp (+postage). You would then need a means to melt the rivets into place (what becomes the plastic rivets are spikes out of the barrel plate). Or just cut off the spikes, and bolt it from the start.

Or you could just ask Unicomp what a "service" would cost on your keyboard. They start from $30:

http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/Repair

Back on the topic of Bolt Modding, phosphor_glow has a video of how he now does a screw mod here:

(Screw mod, because no nut is used, so the keyboard isn't bolted together, it's screwed together)

Phosphorglow's video is one of my favorites.