Author Topic: Model M symtoms  (Read 2525 times)

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Offline bettablue

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Model M symtoms
« on: Wed, 02 March 2011, 11:14:23 »
How can I tell if a model M has broken rivets, bad springs or some other problem relating to construction.  I now have two that seem great, but I have heard that sometime pinging is the sign of rivet issues and sometimes a double tap could mean a bad spring or rivets.  There are however posts that mention that some pinging is normal.  

Is there a simple way to tell without tearing the entire keyboard down to it's individual parts?
Vintage Computer user, and collector, specializing in the IBM 5150 Personal Computer, the World\'s first REAL PC!
Keyboards - IBM Model M X 2, IBM AT X 2, IBM KB8923, Apple IIe, and Mac SE boards. 

-----------------IBM Think!---------------------
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Offline bigpook

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Model M symtoms
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 02 March 2011, 13:33:23 »
Its pretty simple to take apart a model m. Just get the right size nut driver.
The top half will come off easy enough and you can remove the innards.

It will be easy to see if you have a broken rivit issue.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline phototristan

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Model M symtoms
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 02 March 2011, 15:33:16 »
I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. In other words, if it feels and sounds okay when typing on it, don't worry about it.

I've seen Model Ms with many broken rivets that didn't feel or sound any different when typing on them.

Offline Surly73

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Model M symtoms
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 02 March 2011, 16:26:27 »
As soon as I find an appropriate 7/32" tool I'll be opening mine to check the rivets.  I can't stop the urge to reduce the twang...

Offline bettablue

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Model M symtoms
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 02 March 2011, 17:29:59 »
One of the first things I did after getting my first M is to buy the driver from clickykeyboards along with a couple of the missing key caps.  There does seem to be some twnaging that wasn't there before, maybe I'll check it out.  I'll let y'all know.  

Thanks again everybody.  U Da Best!
Vintage Computer user, and collector, specializing in the IBM 5150 Personal Computer, the World\'s first REAL PC!
Keyboards - IBM Model M X 2, IBM AT X 2, IBM KB8923, Apple IIe, and Mac SE boards. 

-----------------IBM Think!---------------------
.

Offline bettablue

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Model M symtoms
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 02 March 2011, 17:57:03 »
Quote from: ripster;303646
Unicomps are great in that regard.  Little pinginess.

Someday I'll check to see if the barrel material is a PC/ABS blend.

Yep, I just opened the board.  There are quite a few that weren't broken before, but what's funny is that when I checked after I first got it, there were none.  Guess it took some use to make them drop.  Most of the broken rivets are under the number pad, but there are a few that are in the primary typing area.  Funny since I haven't really used the number pad all that much.  There are enough broken that make me worry about the rest.  When I popped the case, it looked like a little black snow storm.  Guess a bolt job is in order.  

I will definitely be following ripsters guide and use the bad model M I got a couple of weeks ago to test my drilling technique.  (give me chance to try the new drill I got)

I had noticed that my M was getting a bit pingy as I used it more, just didn't think about it much.  The board still feels solid, but it is definitely louder since I first brought it home.  Guess I'll have to put my KB-8923 in use for a few days while I complete the bolt mod.  

On the other hand, it is still pretty clean inside.  Not too much in the way of keyboard chow.  It will be an easy job to clean.  I'll let y'all know how it goes.
« Last Edit: Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:37:58 by bettablue »
Vintage Computer user, and collector, specializing in the IBM 5150 Personal Computer, the World\'s first REAL PC!
Keyboards - IBM Model M X 2, IBM AT X 2, IBM KB8923, Apple IIe, and Mac SE boards. 

-----------------IBM Think!---------------------
.

Offline Surly73

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Model M symtoms
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 03 March 2011, 07:20:40 »
I was going to post to the other thread where I discussed this, but it seems on topic for here too.

I finally obtained a workable socket and opened both of my model Ms.  The 3151 terminal model had about 5 broken rivets when I opened it and another 5 failed pretty easily from casual finger nail contact.  Recall this is the quieter, less pingy board.  The 3151 model also used a white plastic plate under the keys, had discrete wiring to the LEDs and "IBM" all over everything.  The controller board was attached to the metal plate.

The twangy 1397599 was much cleaner inside (virtually spotless, despite having never been opened).  It had NO failed rivets, but 2-3 popped from fingernail contact.  They weren't localized in any particular area.  The controller was attached to the plastic chassis, BLACK plastic was under the key area (and formed the rivets), a ribbon cable connected the LEDs.  Despite being a "blue label" it had IBM everywhere, including the stickers on the controller IC.  This may confirm wikipedia's entry that even though it's from 1993 and blue label that IBM still built these 7599s.

So I still don't have a great answer as to why the newer 1397599 is twangy and the older one is not, despite the newer one being in much better shape - rivets included.  I may bolt mod the less valuable 3151 model to practice and then do the 7599 just to see if it detwangs it somewhat.  This 7599 is in good enough condition that there is definitely something to lose by screwing up a boltmod.

There is a possibility that the key units may be controller compatible with my memory of the connectors (one is at home, one at the office).  As I said the controller is mounted in different places though so I don't know if the cabling will reach and be managed properly if I tried a swap.

Offline ch_123

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Model M symtoms
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 03 March 2011, 09:40:43 »
Quote from: Surly73;304104
The twangy 1397599 was much cleaner inside (virtually spotless, despite having never been opened).  It had NO failed rivets, but 2-3 popped from fingernail contact.  They weren't localized in any particular area.  The controller was attached to the plastic chassis, BLACK plastic was under the key area (and formed the rivets), a ribbon cable connected the LEDs.  Despite being a "blue label" it had IBM everywhere, including the stickers on the controller IC.  This may confirm wikipedia's entry that even though it's from 1993 and blue label that IBM still built these 7599s.


There would have been a surplus of IBM-stamped parts in early Lexmark keyboards. On the flipside, I have opened a 1993 keyboard made by IBM (In their UK plant) which had Lexmark logos on everything.