Alps Appreciation Thread

[smithyithy]

Got some decent photos in daylight today. Semi-nude to show of that brassss. Initial impressions, feels great, very deep feeling. Need to get the rest of the caps and some lubed stabs on it tonight and have a decent typing session on it.

[ander]

Just wanted to be sure you Alps guys knew about this:

ALPS Switches Doubleshot ABS Keycaps (Massdrop)

$19.99 + shipping











This is a great deal for any set of double-shot keys. (And it's a full, 104-key set—not just a bait-and-switch mini-board set where you have to pay more to add other sections, as Massdrop often does... Drives me nuts.) Available in black, red/brown and Dolch colorways.

I have no financial interest in this, BTW—it's not an ad, just an enthusiastic reference. And I've posted this here rather than in Great Finds, because it's Alps-specific.

[rich1051414]

Currently using the Dolch variant on my matias mini It is worth pointing out that the set does not have all the required key sizes for it, but the ones missing are black, and the original caps are also black, so it's not that big of a deal. The caps themselves are nice and snug but not overly so. VERY much worth the money. Alps aftermarket caps are plagued with snugness issues, and sometimes stem brittleness issues. The last thing you want is a cap mount to break off in the alps stem. That is infuriating. The caps in the link above don't have these issues.

This is where I bought mine:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Taihao-Dolch-Doubt-Shot-ALPS-Keycaps-set-For-ALPS-switch-mechanical-keyboard/222457991158

[smithyithy]

First Alps-mount kit I bought was the TaiHao dolch set to go on my KBParadise V60 matias. Really decent value sets of caps to be fair.

[rowdy]

I have a Tai Hao Dolch Alps set from an older group buy.

And I don't even have an Alps keyboard!

[rich1051414]

The cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station. For professional gamer  )

[rowdy]

The cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station. For professional gamer  )

There is that )

But it makes a bit more sense than a large expensive display box that would cost a fortune to ship around the world.

[rich1051414]

The cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station. For professional gamer  )

There is that )

But it makes a bit more sense than a large expensive display box that would cost a fortune to ship around the world.

I prefer it to flat display boxes sellotaped together, which will fall apart scattering the keys inside the cardboard box anyway

[ander]

The cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station...

Yeah, that's funny...





But I must agree with Rowdy—they're easiest to ship that way.

[rowdy]

The cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station. For professional gamer  )

There is that )

But it makes a bit more sense than a large expensive display box that would cost a fortune to ship around the world.

I prefer it to flat display boxes sellotaped together, which will fall apart scattering the keys inside the cardboard box anyway

Had that too.  Triumph Adler *cough*  Mine actually arrived packed upside down )

[menuhin]

What dry lube (where is the source also?) do most of you use?
And how to apply them?

I have some Alps switches but I have yet to ultrasonic clean them and then lube them.

[smithyithy]

What dry lube (where is the source also?) do most of you use?
And how to apply them?

I have some Alps switches but I have yet to ultrasonic clean them and then lube them.

I use this stuff: https://muc-off.com/products/bio-dry-lube

Use a small brush to apply a thin coat to the faces and sliders of the stems and let it dry before reassembly.

[pixelpusher]

Got some decent photos in daylight today. Semi-nude to show of that brassss. Initial impressions, feels great, very deep feeling. Need to get the rest of the caps and some lubed stabs on it tonight and have a decent typing session on it.

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where did you get a brass alps plate?  What kind of stabilizer do you have on the space bar?

This looks very nice.  Great work.  I've been trying to buy AEKII boards off ebay for weeks now to no avail just to harvest alps switches.  Can't seem to find any good deals.

[ander]

Here's a question for y'all:

Why doesn't someone make a good reproduction of Alps Blues? Everyone's so wacky over them, and vintage boards with them command such silly high prices.

Could it be that hard for one of these many clone-makers to reproduce them down to the last detail? They seem to have done that with everything else. I'd buy some.

[chyros]

Here's a question for y'all:

Why doesn't someone make a good reproduction of Alps Blues? Everyone's so wacky over them, and vintage boards with them command such silly high prices.

Could it be that hard for one of these many clone-makers to reproduce them down to the last detail? They seem to have done that with everything else. I'd buy some.

Because they think they can get away with a simplified, cheaper design without people noticing.

[smithyithy]

where did you get a brass alps plate?  What kind of stabilizer do you have on the space bar?

This looks very nice.  Great work.  I've been trying to buy AEKII boards off ebay for weeks now to no avail just to harvest alps switches.  Can't seem to find any good deals.

Thanks! The brass plate was custom ct by a company in the UK called LaserMaster, I used the opensource Alps plate files, edited them slightly on AutoCAD and submitted them to the cutters. Turnaround was quick, Think it cost just under £40.. I bought a couple of plates at the same time so can't remember the exact price per plate.

For the space bar, I'm using the 7u wire stab that comes with the spacebar. However I think the 'tube' stabiliser thing is getting in the way so I may have to do without it. Otherwise it feels fine.

[ander]

Why doesn't someone make a good reproduction of Alps Blues?...

Because they think they can get away with a simplified, cheaper design without people noticing.

But I'm not talking about some garden-variety blue-ish vaguely-Alpsy switches. I mean, why doesn't someone run off some switches that look and type like the real thing? How hard would it be? They're just switches, right?

Let's say a respected co. announced they've released a faithfully resurrected version of Alps Blues for, like, $30/set. Who here would come back with, "Meh, I don't care about that. I don't care that I could buy these switches, drop them in a chassis, and have a board that felt twice as good as a vintage Acer or Chicony with Alps Blues, because they'd be in a real board instead of one of those economy '90s boards that didn't know how lucky they were. Nah, I'm gonna play another round of FIFA, so later." I'm just saying.

[schoolbus]

The amount of investment almost certainly outweighs the reward. You've gotta figure it's at minimum a 3+ year ROI if that & I'm completely speculating. Think of the R&D, prototyping and trialing required to try and faithfully capture the original feel and sound, on top of the investment that would be required for the equipment to manufacture them efficiently. Companies could make far more money quicker doing many other keyboard related things.

It'd be cool, though.

[tanvir175]

Why doesn't someone make a good reproduction of Alps Blues?...

Because they think they can get away with a simplified, cheaper design without people noticing.

They're just switches, right?

I'm not gonna say I know everything that goes on in developing a switch but I think you're undermining the efforts that go into it.

[rich1051414]

Or it could be that the complicated design has an inherent high failure rate during production, and the simplified design was one out of necessity. Who knows for sure.

[ander]

Well, maybe you guys are right. It just seemed to me that since:

• There's such an Alps Blue mania in KB communities around the world, with people paying over $200 for otherwise pretty pedestrian '90s boards containing them; and

• Companies have come out with all kinds of new switches over the last few years—apparently having the resources, whatever they are, to design and make totally new switches (which I presume sell sufficiently, even the most pedestrian types)

...that it seemed someone might be at least interested in reproducing a switch that's taken on a kind of divine reputation, and that people are scouring the planet trying to find.

I mean, really, if it was done right, who among us—not just the particularly Alps-appreciating guys, but anyone interested in MKs—wouldn't be intrigued enough to buy a sub-$100 board with New Alps Blues? I mean, people spend twice as much as that for a set of keys (or even one key!).

I don't know about switch manufacturing. But what I know about manufacturing in general is, the more resources you have in place, the more cheaply and easily you can R&D. For example, a company like Kaihua, which has just come out with all these new Kailh switches—why should they now keep their R&D guys sitting around waiting for the next idea?

And how about someone like XMIT? He worked with a Chinese company to design a new, modern Hall Effect switch from the ground up, and had not one but two iterations of keyboards produced and sold with them. He just had a cool idea: to make one of the best switch technologies ever, available again. And he made it happen, and he's just one guy. (Well, he's an MIT-educated engineer, but still.)

Maybe all this would take is some vision and courage. I know what it doesn't take: sitting around thinking up reasons it'd be too hard. Funny how that works, isn't it?

They're just switches, right?

I'm not gonna say I know everything that goes on in developing a switch but I think you're undermining the efforts that go into it.

Sorry, you think I'm undermining the idea? But I started the discussion. Are you sure you know what "undermine" means?:

undermine (n.) to remove the foundation or support of subtly or by underhand means; subvert or weaken insidiously or secretly <"the way a writer handles the social situation either supports or undermines it"–Peter Crowcroft> <"selling below cost to undermine competition"–Time>

[tanvir175]

They're just switches, right?

I'm not gonna say I know everything that goes on in developing a switch but I think you're undermining the efforts that go into it.

Sorry, you think I'm undermining the idea? But I started the discussion. Are you sure you know what "undermine" means?:

undermine (n.) to remove the foundation or support of subtly or by underhand means; subvert or weaken insidiously or secretly <"the way a writer handles the social situation either supports or undermines it"–Peter Crowcroft> <"selling below cost to undermine competition"–Time>

Undermine is often used in speech as "to undermine someone or something."

Look at definition 1a. in this link https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/undermine
1a. to deliberately say or do things that make someone appear less impressive or less important

The only thing I would have wrong is "deliberately" because I will not make the assumption that you are doing it on purpose nor do I think you are. It says "someone" but it also applies to "something." I have heard it used for both.

However, the comment "They're just switches" makes it sound like there is little effort going into making a switch. As if once day a company can just pop out o of nowhere and reproduce complicated Alps because "they're just switches."

I'm not trying to start an argument here about anything. I know you started the discussion (on specifically why companies aren't investing in remaking complicated blue alps) but I didn't say you were undermining the idea. In fact, I said nothing close to that.

[schoolbus]

Well, maybe you guys are right. It just seemed to me that since:

• There's such an Alps Blue mania in KB communities around the world, with people paying over $200 for otherwise pretty pedestrian '90s boards containing them; and

But how many people are actually doing that annually? No way it even comes close to $5k+ a year which based on my experience in new product development is literally a drop of piss in a pond.

[EscapeVelocity]

I just sold my Apple Extended Keyboard II.  [sad music plays]

Really liked the dampened cream Alps on that one.

[Blaise170]

Guess who's back? 

[jdcarpe]

Guess who's back? 

Back again?

[Blaise170]

Guess who's back? 

Back again?

Hint: Not Shady.

[jdcarpe]

Guess who's back? 

Back again?

Hint: Not Shady.

What's up? Only just back myself.

[Blaise170]

What's up? Only just back myself.

Not too much. Appears people are still clacking away even a year and a half later.

[EscapeVelocity]

What's up? Only just back myself.

Not too much. Appears people are still clacking away even a year and a half later.

Hey Blaise170!   Yes, Im back! 

[Blaise170]

Hi hi. I suppose I should probably update my location since I moved... And to avoid going too off topic I suppose I should also actually post something Alps related. So here goes:

[jdcarpe]

Hi hi. I suppose I should probably update my location since I moved... And to avoid going too off topic I suppose I should also actually post something Alps related. So here goes:

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Nice!



Ah, but your Current Keyboards spreadsheet in your sig says Total Keyboards Owned = 0. Lies!

[Blaise170]

Nice!

Ah, but your Current Keyboards spreadsheet in your sig says Total Keyboards Owned = 0. Lies!

Haha yeah I haven't touched anything keyboard related in over a year. I have a long weekend so I might spend a few hours cleaning up the storage room and figuring out what exactly I have left. I might start proxying stuff from Japan again, just need to make sure I don't go insane with keyboards like I did in the past.

[jdcarpe]

Haha yeah I haven't touched anything keyboard related in over a year. I have a long weekend so I might spend a few hours cleaning up the storage room and figuring out what exactly I have left. I might start proxying stuff from Japan again, just need to make sure I don't go insane with keyboards like I did in the past.

Same for me, actually. I still have a room full of keyboard stuff, but I didn't touch any of it in over a year. I'm getting things prepped to sell, myself. Funny how this hobby can make you go a little crazy, but stepping away from it will hopefully let us come back stronger.

[Blaise170]

Yeah a lot of it was that collector mentality: "But what if I never see one of these again?!"

And then you have to realize that the answer to that question is, nothing. I actually use an Apple Magic keyboard at work now, which I never would have done a year ago.

[jdcarpe]

Yeah a lot of it was that collector mentality: "But what if I never see one of these again?!"

And then you have to realize that the answer to that question is, nothing. I actually use an Apple Magic keyboard at work now, which I never would have done a year ago.

Wow, so strange...

I just brought a Filco into work this week, after using a Magic Keyboard here for a year. It's still here on the desk, too. I might go back to it.

[EscapeVelocity]

Im looking for a Monterey K108 with SMK Monterey Blue switches.  If you have one in your stash.

[Blaise170]

Nope. For the most part, nothing common.

[pixelpusher]

Okay people.  Need some advice from the Alps crowd here.  Got an AEKII from ebay today.  It looks great.  Has not yellowed at all.  It has dampened cream alps.  However, the switches feel terrible.  Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??

I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner.  If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better?  I can also lubricate them if it will help.

If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction.   

[rich1051414]

Alps all feel slightly bindy when pressed off center. It is a quirk of alps you get used to. Cherry spoils people here as they don't care about off center key presses.

You don't NEED an ultrasonic cleaner to clean them, but its helpful. You need to take care to clean all the grime from the sharp corners, as this is where the friction is coming from. Lastly, I would recommend adding all the sliders to a bag with a bit of dry lube and shaking them up, so the sliders are lightly coated. Don't add lube to the switch itself, it only makes it worse dealing with dirt.

[pixelpusher]

Alps all feel slightly bindy when pressed off center. It is a quirk of alps you get used to. Cherry spoils people here as they don't care about off center key presses.

You don't NEED an ultrasonic cleaner to clean them, but its helpful. You need to take care to clean all the grime from the sharp corners, as this is where the friction is coming from. Lastly, I would recommend adding all the sliders to a bag with a bit of dry lube and shaking them up, so the sliders are lightly coated. Don't add lube to the switch itself, it only makes it worse dealing with dirt.

Sharp corners of the sliders, or the top housings?

[eksuen]

Okay people.  Need some advice from the Alps crowd here.  Got an AEKII from ebay today.  It looks great.  Has not yellowed at all.  It has dampened cream alps.  However, the switches feel terrible.  Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??

I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner.  If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better?  I can also lubricate them if it will help.

If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction.   

I don't like how dampened cream Alps feel at all, so it's possible the switches aren't up your alley even if they are cleaned.

[pixelpusher]

Okay people.  Need some advice from the Alps crowd here.  Got an AEKII from ebay today.  It looks great.  Has not yellowed at all.  It has dampened cream alps.  However, the switches feel terrible.  Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??

I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner.  If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better?  I can also lubricate them if it will help.

If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction.   

I don't like how dampened cream Alps feel at all, so it's possible the switches aren't up your alley even if they are cleaned.

 Very possible.  I cleaned just one, and I do feel a difference, but I just don’t think I’m a fan of them.  I have some click modded salmon alps on hand.   Now I need to decide if I want to Replace the switches in the AEkii or just make a new board using the keycaps.

[jdcarpe]

Okay people.  Need some advice from the Alps crowd here.  Got an AEKII from ebay today.  It looks great.  Has not yellowed at all.  It has dampened cream alps.  However, the switches feel terrible.  Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??

I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner.  If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better?  I can also lubricate them if it will help.

If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction.   

I don't like how dampened cream Alps feel at all, so it's possible the switches aren't up your alley even if they are cleaned.

 Very possible.  I cleaned just one, and I do feel a difference, but I just don’t think I’m a fan of them.  I have some click modded salmon alps on hand.   Now I need to decide if I want to Replace the switches in the AEkii or just make a new board using the keycaps.

I vote for new board. There are several Alps options on the market now, and to me the AEKII is just meh.

[Blaise170]

I think the AEK II is very good for accessibility, compatibility, and availability. But, I would definitely do a modern Alps board if I could find one in aluminum. The Kingsaver is still the board I'd love to buy, but the last person to offer me one was asking $800... No thanks.

[eksuen]

Okay people.  Need some advice from the Alps crowd here.  Got an AEKII from ebay today.  It looks great.  Has not yellowed at all.  It has dampened cream alps.  However, the switches feel terrible.  Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??

I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner.  If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better?  I can also lubricate them if it will help.

If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction.   

I don't like how dampened cream Alps feel at all, so it's possible the switches aren't up your alley even if they are cleaned.

 Very possible.  I cleaned just one, and I do feel a difference, but I just don’t think I’m a fan of them.  I have some click modded salmon alps on hand.   Now I need to decide if I want to Replace the switches in the AEkii or just make a new board using the keycaps.

I vote for new board. There are several Alps options on the market now, and to me the AEKII is just meh.

I'd personally opt for a new board too. I enjoy my more compact Alps boards very much. But maybe you're a fullsize user.

[Kevadu]

Honestly I was thinking about buying an AEK II just to rip out the switches, not to use as-is.  They're relatively cheap and accessible.  But I'm surprised you guys are so negative about the switches as I generally have heard good things about them.

How would you compare the AEK II switches to a Matias 'quiet click'?

[eksuen]

Honestly I was thinking about buying an AEK II just to rip out the switches, not to use as-is.  They're relatively cheap and accessible.  But I'm surprised you guys are so negative about the switches as I generally have heard good things about them.

How would you compare the AEK II switches to a Matias 'quiet click'?

Dampened cream Alps feel really mushy and unresponsive to me. I much prefer Matias Quiet Clicks to dampened creams. I have yet to try the new version of the Matias switches that reduce wobble though, not that it really bothered me in the first place.

[Blaise170]

Cream Damped switches have always been, in many people's opinions, one of the worst Alps switches. Matias Quiet Click is almost identical to them, having been modeled after black Alps SKBM (simple) with the dampers from the Cream Damped switches. So you'd essentially be using the same switch, with minor differences.

[Kevadu]

Well I already have lots of clicky boards, as that's generally what I go for.  I was thinking about doing this mainly to make something a bit quieter that I could use as work without driving my coworkers insane.  And the quiet tactile options on the MX side of things seem even worse...

But it sounds like I might as well just go for the Matias switches.  It's a lot less work too and you don't have to worry about cleaning dirty switches that way.