I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower. Bought a set of Granite and couldn't get used to them. If you're using ABS OEM profile caps, then the PBT DSA caps will feel more textured.
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.
But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.
Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.
But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.
Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.
What's the difference between SA and DSA besides the like height difference. The tops of the SA caps are still cylindrical right?
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.
But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.
Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.
What's the difference between SA and DSA besides the like height difference. The tops of the SA caps are still cylindrical right?
Yes, that's why I find it weird that I like SA but not DSA.
A quick search pulled up these threads.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49485.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44502.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65100.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59133.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49086.0
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)Show Image(https://i.imgflip.com/ttau3.jpg)
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)Show Image(https://i.imgflip.com/ttau3.jpg)
You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme
You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme
What switches were you using that you could feel the switches better?
I currently have a lubed ergo clear board and browns on another board. I could already feel a huge difference, wondering if I would be able to feel more of a difference if I swapped out those keycaps to DSA.
You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme
What switches were you using that you could feel the switches better?
I currently have a lubed ergo clear board and browns on another board. I could already feel a huge difference, wondering if I would be able to feel more of a difference if I swapped out those keycaps to DSA.
lubed tactile clears/grays - a very subjective experience tho
I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower.
I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower.
This. I bought a set of DSA blanks and couldn't get used to it, too. Made way more typos. Can't recommend them.
The cherry corp. profile is taller then DSA.Except it's not. Only the number/function row has the whole keytop higher than DSA—it's the exact opposite on the home row, and the surrounding rows are sculpted in case of Cherry profile.
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)Show Image(https://i.imgflip.com/ttau3.jpg)
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)Show Image(https://i.imgflip.com/ttau3.jpg)
lo, why is that a 9gag photo? :)
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop :blank:
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop :blank:
Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop :blank:
Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?
the placement/position/or... my finger feels like typing in laptop. its just feels really flat, i prefer oem.
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop :blank:
Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?
the placement/position/or... my finger feels like typing in laptop. its just feels really flat, i prefer oem.
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info
Very interesting read, thanks for the info.
Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.
But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.
Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info
Very interesting read, thanks for the info.
Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.
POM is denser than PBT (but only a little) and they're both denser than ABS (by quite a bit). This is why PBT and POM caps sink in water, but ABS float.
A little comparison of Row 3 DCS and SA ABS doubleshots:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I suspect the DSA caps are very similar to the DCS Row 3 (DCS are thinner walled, but taller), even in PBT. There just isn't enough material to make them "heavy". SA Row 1 are even heavier. Love my SA caps.
Thick PBT Cherry Row 3 (Row "C") are in between, at just over 1g (about 1.2g for my black on black IIRC). Will measure when I have a moment.
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials (https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials)
This link is a compilation of keycap info
Very interesting read, thanks for the info.
Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.
POM is denser than PBT (but only a little) and they're both denser than ABS (by quite a bit). This is why PBT and POM caps sink in water, but ABS float.
A little comparison of Row 3 DCS and SA ABS doubleshots:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I suspect the DSA caps are very similar to the DCS Row 3 (DCS are thinner walled, but taller), even in PBT. There just isn't enough material to make them "heavy". SA Row 1 are even heavier. Love my SA caps.
Thick PBT Cherry Row 3 (Row "C") are in between, at just over 1g (about 1.2g for my black on black IIRC). Will measure when I have a moment.
Wow I did not expect anyone to actually measure the weight of the caps. I also didn't think that the DSA cap would be heavier than a DCS cap.
Thanks for doing that though, really appreciate it.
In my opinion, DSA caps are horrid to type on when compared to SA for comfort. The angled aspect of SA is a lot better.
In my opinion, DSA caps are horrid to type on when compared to SA for comfort. The angled aspect of SA is a lot better.
So presumably you do not like uniform profile SA?
... that's hardly a reason to infect SA with a uniform profile.
... that's hardly a reason to infect SA with a uniform profile.
"The first keycap family produced by Signature Plastics’ previous company, Comptec Inc., was the SA family. These keys had a Spherical touch area and the same profile for All rows."
All Row 3 SA predates all other SP profiles. "Sculptured SA" was made some time in th '80s after the failures of SS and DSS to become popular. DSS is in fact sculptured DSA, but SP don't make it any more. SS was an angled, sculptured tall spherical profile. I'd love to have been able to try that one :)
I happen to like both uniform SA and sculptured SA, with sculptured being nicer to type on, but not a massive difference. SA keytops are actually the same size as DSA, but have a better curvature and feel nicer to me, especially in gloss or semi-matte compared to DSA's matte only texture.
Interestingly enough, Cherry and DCS cap tops are narrower horizontally than SA and DSA.
I am very interested in trying out Devlin's "Q" profile as a low, uniform profile (kind of a thicker, better DSA-equivalent). I think I'd prefer the nice wide tops and more subtle matte texture:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/K4dleqa.jpg)
SA may have started out uniform, probably for cost reasons, but it is fully sculpted now. It seems to me that making uniform SA sets today makes about as much sense as willingly designing double-shot sets with (the old) R3 Shift molds and the old SHIF T legend. These are manufacturing limitations that simply no longer apply.
The only reason left I can think of to go uniform R3 is to provide maximum layout flexibility. And while (a relatively small number of) international and fringe users certainly appreciate that, it is nevertheless a misuse of the SA family, in my opinion. Keyboards built for typing have had sculpted rows for eons, whether achieved by way of curved backplates, angled switch stems, or sculpted keycaps. I'm pretty sure this has been the case since long before I got into computers (in 1981).
SA may have started out uniform, probably for cost reasons, but it is fully sculpted now. It seems to me that making uniform SA sets today makes about as much sense as willingly designing double-shot sets with (the old) R3 Shift molds and the old SHIF T legend. These are manufacturing limitations that simply no longer apply.
The only reason left I can think of to go uniform R3 is to provide maximum layout flexibility. And while (a relatively small number of) international and fringe users certainly appreciate that, it is nevertheless a misuse of the SA family, in my opinion. Keyboards built for typing have had sculpted rows for eons, whether achieved by way of curved backplates, angled switch stems, or sculpted keycaps. I'm pretty sure this has been the case since long before I got into computers (in 1981).
Apple does not make a single contoured keyboard any more. Not one. I guess you could argue they're not meant for typing, though. :p
Logitech make many uniform boards, as do a more and more manufacturers nowadays. As more people use boards at flatter angles, the angled back contoured caps of old become less needed, although a contoured set is better to type on for sure. SA was developed as a flat set. It's only "become" a ture fully sculptured set now with the completion of the Row 4 Shift molds.
SA may have started out uniform, probably for cost reasons, but it is fully sculpted now. It seems to me that making uniform SA sets today makes about as much sense as willingly designing double-shot sets with (the old) R3 Shift molds and the old SHIF T legend. These are manufacturing limitations that simply no longer apply.
The only reason left I can think of to go uniform R3 is to provide maximum layout flexibility. And while (a relatively small number of) international and fringe users certainly appreciate that, it is nevertheless a misuse of the SA family, in my opinion. Keyboards built for typing have had sculpted rows for eons, whether achieved by way of curved backplates, angled switch stems, or sculpted keycaps. I'm pretty sure this has been the case since long before I got into computers (in 1981).
Apple does not make a single contoured keyboard any more. Not one. I guess you could argue they're not meant for typing, though. :p
Logitech make many uniform boards, as do a more and more manufacturers nowadays. As more people use boards at flatter angles, the angled back contoured caps of old become less needed, although a contoured set is better to type on for sure. SA was developed as a flat set. It's only "become" a ture fully sculptured set now with the completion of the Row 4 Shift molds.
Well, I would argue that the loss of sculpted rows in cheap, modern keyboards is a by-product of cost-cutting measures (and a customer base that just doesn't care). The increase in laptops and tablets further erodes the public's appreciation for sculpted keyboards. I still consider sculpted rows the "optimal norm" for keyboards built for typing, even if they are not popular with the masses.
I agree with you on that point, but "flat" profile caps are perfectly acceptable nowadays, perhaps more than ever before, due to how used to them most people are now. I prefer sculptured, but find flat to be usable. In fact, I find all Row 3 SA preferable to DCS and Cherry, due to the lack of "steps" that force you to raise your fingers when switching rows. Sculptured SA is definitely my favourite, though.
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.
Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.
Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.
Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.
Agreed. I had no idea what they were saying, but I don't know if I would fully agree with you saying that if someone has a mechanical keyboard that there's no use to use flat profiled caps. I think that preference plays a large role in deciding the right keys. I think going with a mechanical keyboard, it's mainly for the travel of the keys compared to a standard rubber dome board.
I do have a potential seller of DSA styled caps from someone's grab bag, so I'll just wait till those arrive before finally deciding if it's for me or not.
This is cool, even when I was not able to understand it.
:p
I had a hell of a time when I first started to use DSA, but it was the same time I switched from a normal fullsize keyboard to an ergodox, so that had lots to do with it.
I am used to it now and absolutely love it. I prefer it to normal profiles now that I am used to it.
I use a 75% board with DSA for gaming. I find it is nice for creative writing where I'm pausing a lot, but in general any heavy lifting requires a cherry profile.
Yeah, it's kind of like two ergonomics solutions getting in each other's way. I'd be curious to hear from Ergo users who have sculptured SA sets on their boards.
Yeah, it's kind of like two ergonomics solutions getting in each other's way. I'd be curious to hear from Ergo users who have sculptured SA sets on their boards.
I really like them on my Ergo:Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=63052.0;attach=83151;image)
I'm using Row 1, 3, 4 on the main character areas. Row 1,3 inverted 1 is even better :) The Carbon set has a fully sculptured ErogoDox layout.
I don't see why someone wouldn't like them on a 'Dox. AFAIK, most ErgoDox kits have been "flat" simply because it allows you to arrange the caps any way you like, not for any comfort or ergonomic reasons.
That ergo looks interesting, it seems it is your very personal version of an ergo.
Yeah, it's kind of like two ergonomics solutions getting in each other's way. I'd be curious to hear from Ergo users who have sculptured SA sets on their boards.
I really like them on my Ergo:Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=63052.0;attach=83151;image)
I'm using Row 1, 3, 4 on the main character areas. Row 1,3 inverted 1 is even better :) The Carbon set has a fully sculptured ErogoDox layout.
I don't see why someone wouldn't like them on a 'Dox. AFAIK, most ErgoDox kits have been "flat" simply because it allows you to arrange the caps any way you like, not for any comfort or ergonomic reasons.
How long did it take you to make this board, oh and how much did it cost? :P
Right one more question is how long did it take you to get used to that layout?
I use a 75% board with DSA for gaming. I find it is nice for creative writing where I'm pausing a lot, but in general any heavy lifting requires a cherry profile.
Could you explain what the difference is for you? How the two compare to each other while doing lots of typing.
You said that you game with it, which means that you're using it for probably a couple of hours at a time. Then you also said that "heavy lifting" requires cherry profile, which I'm assuming a lot of typing?
Any key cap is good for typing and, by extension, for any use involving it, name it gaming. However the efficiency for the task may vary, but it is more related with the practice the typist have with a particular key board, including all its elements, key caps, switches, material and its texture and layout. Focus on the key cap type only and making an argument just based on it regarding a typing experience is not a good scientific approach. Some people find rubber domes very good for their use and you can see them typing very efficiently on them, that alone demonstrates that there is no a particular key cap, or even a key board, mechanical or not, that may be the best for certain computing activity involving typing. In the other hand, preferences will be very different for each individual and testimonies shared here cannot be generalized. Some others, find lap top key boards to be very nice to type on, again, it may be a matter of continuous use of them that make their use very friendly.
For the OP, if you want to know how does DSA feel, then do you homework and give it a try and make your mind about it, but you should be aware that the final feeling is a result of more than one factor and that it may be different from some others experiences.
Any key cap is good for typing and, by extension, for any use involving it, name it gaming. However the efficiency for the task may vary, but it is more related with the practice the typist have with a particular key board, including all its elements, key caps, switches, material and its texture and layout. Focus on the key cap type only and making an argument just based on it regarding a typing experience is not a good scientific approach. Some people find rubber domes very good for their use and you can see them typing very efficiently on them, that alone demonstrates that there is no a particular key cap, or even a key board, mechanical or not, that may be the best for certain computing activity involving typing. In the other hand, preferences will be very different for each individual and testimonies shared here cannot be generalized. Some others, find lap top key boards to be very nice to type on, again, it may be a matter of continuous use of them that make their use very friendly.
For the OP, if you want to know how does DSA feel, then do you homework and give it a try and make your mind about it, but you should be aware that the final feeling is a result of more than one factor and that it may be different from some others experiences.
Oh I already have a seller lined up for some DSA caps. Can't wait to get them to try :D
It seems like there are many other types of caps to try out so the thread has just kind of moved on towards asking about other keycap opinions.
I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower. Bought a set of Granite and couldn't get used to them. If you're using ABS OEM profile caps, then the PBT DSA caps will feel more textured.