Disappointed with DSA.

[ceflame]

So I recently purchased the Dolch DSA set from SP because how could I possibly miss out on keycaps that looked so beautiful. Note, this is the first DSA set that I have tried, and they honestly feel lackluster compared to the stock keycaps on the Poker II.

Firstly, when I tried out o-rings on the set, it felt as though the keys could barely be pushed down. In addition to that, the spacebar seemed to be sticky, giving forcible resistance when I push it down. Has anyone else had this experience with DSA sets?

[pexon]

You may have put the spacebar back on incorrectly, check that it is seated nicely and its the right way round (profile wise).

You are not alone in not liking DSA, it may also be down to the fact that you are used to typing on the PBT caps that come with the Poker 2. Personally, I love DSA and I have no qualms with ABS. The Dolch DSA is a really nice looking set though 

[ceflame]

You may have put the spacebar back on incorrectly, check that it is seated nicely and its the right way round (profile wise).

You are not alone in not liking DSA, it may also be down to the fact that you are used to typing on the PBT caps that come with the Poker 2. Personally, I love DSA and I have no qualms with ABS. The Dolch DSA is a really nice looking set though 

I actually have the backlit Poker 2, with the ABS caps. Spacebar is put on correctly, and I guess it does feel a bit better after some use, but do you have any experience using O-rings on them? I really like the feel of reds with O-rings, but the DSA just felt completely different from the stock keycaps.

[pexon]

It may just take some getting used to the profile, like Topre, your first impressions may be 'meh' but you may grow to like them.

I don't use O-Rings for MX, I don't like them, it shortens the travel distance on the switch, I don't like that at all.

[ceflame]

Fair enough, though my first experience with Topre was quite nice. I was just surprised by the difference in feel between DSA and DCS (or whatever Poker 2 uses) profiles with use of O-rings.

[Moosecraft]

I dont like DSA either, just feels weird to type on.

[Oobly]

Orings will feel different on different profile caps due to the height of the crossbars / lack of crossbars / height of base, etc. In the case of DSA caps, they have no crossbars, but are really low profile, so the oring hits a little sooner than on OEM caps and there is more surface area squishing the oring (crossbars allow more distortion and therefore feel softer).

You could try thinner orings, or mod the switches instead with little pieces of rubber in the lower case (trampoline  mod).

Is the spacebar properly seated on the mounts and is it oriented correctly?

<sigh> Still a bit miffed about the GB for these caps...

[Zeroblade]

It's probably one of two things -

Either it's just getting used to a new profile that is dramatically different from the standard DCS, or perhaps the keys don't/weren't fit well.
In the case of the former, some people never really do get over it, which is understandable I'm sure.

[Battou62]

I wasn't a fan of the DSA profile either. I had the dolch set and had to let it go in the end. It was hard to do as SP really outdid themselves on this set. The quality of the keycaps was top notch.

[ceflame]

The quality definitely is good, I guess it really is just the profile which turns me off. I must have orings for my reds, and DSA just isn't cutting it with how it feels with orings.

[ideus]

My experience with my first set of DSA, the Macross set, has been good so far. My other sets are original DS Cherry. There are many differences that makes for a total different experience typing with DSA. The Cherry sets have less texture even when they were new, thus now that are wear off both, the beige and the black sets, are shiny, while the DSA has very rough texture. The apparent weight of the caps seem different, the Cherries feel more dense and solid, while the DSA caps feel lighter. In general I biased for the Cherry, but I do not like their grease feeling, but it makes typing a little easier, I can type a little faster with them. I like the DSA dry feel, but I'd prefer if they feel heavier.

I am typing this with my Macross set and I like it. I am using it with browns in a solid FC660M. When I got my hands in my new Granite, I may share a brief note on them, because they will be PBT. If PBT feels more solid, as the material is denser, it will be a hit.

[CPTBadAss]

I'm not a fan of the profile or the reduced surface area on the top of the caps. When I had the caps on, it felt like I was hunting for keys that I knew were there.

[Oobly]

The quality definitely is good, I guess it really is just the profile which turns me off. I must have orings for my reds, and DSA just isn't cutting it with how it feels with orings.

Try thinner orings or open up the switches and do the trampoline mod.

[ceflame]

The quality definitely is good, I guess it really is just the profile which turns me off. I must have orings for my reds, and DSA just isn't cutting it with how it feels with orings.

Try thinner orings or open up the switches and do the trampoline mod.

Any suggestions on which o-rings to get? It's impossible for me to mod the switches because I screwed up and stripped one of the screws attaching the pcb to the case.

[SpAmRaY]

The quality definitely is good, I guess it really is just the profile which turns me off. I must have orings for my reds, and DSA just isn't cutting it with how it feels with orings.

Try thinner orings or open up the switches and do the trampoline mod.

Any suggestions on which o-rings to get? It's impossible for me to mod the switches because I screwed up and stripped one of the screws attaching the pcb to the case.

If you just stripped the screw top that is fixable.

[ceflame]

Can you elaborate on how to fix? I've tried rubber band and super glue method already.

[SpAmRaY]

Can you elaborate on how to fix? I've tried rubber band and super glue method already.

You can purchase damaged screw removers, someone posted a link in the price check thread for you.

[osi]

Screw extractors do work. In a pinch, you may be able to get by with just your screwdriver and a rubber band. Place the rubber in the stripped head and then proceed to unscrew. It will give you a little more traction to get the torque working -- all dependent on how stripped out the head is!

[ceflame]

Rubber band method didn't work  . Screw extractor would probably be my best bet, but the one posted in the Price Check thread may or may not work for mine. The Poker 2 screws are small and partially hidden under the plate, can't gauge the thickness of the extractors from the picture.

[osi]

There are plenty of options for extractors. I picked up a 4 piece kit at a hardware store a few years ago for 20 bucks.

Since the screw cannot be salvaged, you may as well just drill it out and be done with it--if you have a small bit :x

[ceflame]

I guess I'll head out and look for one sometime later.. thanks for all the help guys. Imagine my frustration with a stripped screw just the second time I go to unscrew it, ugh.

[metalliqaz]

I disliked DSA from the moment I first tried them.  I got a few of the Retro DSA sets.  I think that was one of the first GH DSA GBs.  They look great but they are terrible to type on.  There is only two reasons DSA sets are popular, IMO:

1) they were uncommon until recently, and therefore novel
2) they can handle non-QWERTY layouts without requiring extra keys to get the row height correct

I care about neither, therefore I don't buy DSA sets

[Grendel]

Any suggestions on which o-rings to get?

I'm using these w/ the DSA Dolch set, working great.

[ideus]

Any suggestions on which o-rings to get?

I'm using these w/ the DSA Dolch set, working great.

I am using exactly the same.

[ceflame]

Thanks, I'll try that set of orings!

[Melvang]

If you do attempt to remove the stripped screw via drill bit, try and get one that is left handed.  You should be able to order one online.  Best case, when the bit starts cutting it will grab hard enough to pull the screw out.  Probable chance, it will drill through and then you can use the screw extractor.  Worst case, you break the bit half way through flush with the top of the screw.  At this point, if it is in a plastic case, you can kiss pretty much all chances of getting that screw out without a good drill press and some careful setup.

[hashbaz]

I'm not a fan of the profile or the reduced surface area on the top of the caps. When I had the caps on, it felt like I was hunting for keys that I knew were there.

Me too.  I've been using the DSA Dolch set at work for a couple of weeks now, and I no longer hate the profile.  But I'd rather have DCS.

[Grendel]

Any suggestions on which o-rings to get?

I'm using these w/ the DSA Dolch set, working great.

Forgot to mention, sorry ! For the DSA Dolch set you need two rings per cap since they don't have the "inner walls".

[Razor Lotus]

I don't really mind DSA.

I'm using SP's DSA on my pure now and for typing I think it's a bit weird. I've gotten used to it but like most others, DSA vs DCS, I'd rather have DCS.

I do like DSA for gaming though. Cause I like the way the circular tops cradle your fingers. Especially since I'm playing games like dota 2 where most of the time you have the same fingers on the same keys, it feels good when you rest your fingers on them waiting to press a key. For typing, you hit each key so fast you barely appreciate the cradling effect.

I don't know why DSA was so hyped up in the granite and in the other group buys though. Maybe a ton more people like DSA and only the haters/people ok with it come into this thread. Or maybe they like it for the flexibility it gives for different layouts

[ideus]

I don't really mind DSA.

I'm using SP's DSA on my pure now and for typing I think it's a bit weird. I've gotten used to it but like most others, DSA vs DCS, I'd rather have DCS.

I do like DSA for gaming though. Cause I like the way the circular tops cradle your fingers. Especially since I'm playing games like dota 2 where most of the time you have the same fingers on the same keys, it feels good when you rest your fingers on them waiting to press a key. For typing, you hit each key so fast you barely appreciate the cradling effect.

I don't know why DSA was so hyped up in the granite and in the other group buys though. Maybe a ton more people like DSA and only the haters/people ok with it come into this thread. Or maybe they like it for the flexibility it gives for different layouts

My humble opinion is that Granite is a special set because it is PBT and sublimated with a very special set of legends, and icons. It happens to be DSA that makes it a good fit for special boards like ergodox.

[Razor Lotus]

My humble opinion is that Granite is a special set because it is PBT and sublimated with a very special set of legends, and icons. It happens to be DSA that makes it a good fit for special boards like ergodox.

So it's about the layout flexibility then.

And OP, yeah I've had problems with the DSA spacebar sticking as well. Then I turned it around and it was better but it was still sticking.

Recently, I did what someone suggested in another thread, I left it in hot water for a few minutes, put something soft on it and applied pressure on it to a flat surface. It was slightly straighter than before and is definitely less sticky but it is still different from the stock abs spacebar that came with my board.   

I remember, the spacebar was my favourite key to press when I first got my board. I used to unplug it when watching videos or movies so I can press the spacebar while I'm watching. I'm just now able to do that anymore with the DSA spacebar. Tried changing the spacebar switch to a stiffer spring as well and used that for 2 weeks but it didn't help. It made the spacebar feel totally different but more tolerable that a sticky spacebar.

I also considered just leaving the spacebar as stock but the different profile got in the way of typing alot. The higher profile of the stock spacebar meant that I kept accidentally hitting it while typing.

Personally, I think having one board with DSA is enough. I don't think I'll get DSA for future boards anymore unless the design really catches my eye.

[Findecanor]

I got disappointed that the DSA weren't low-profile that people keep saying that they are.
They are friggin medium-profile, because SP says so and because they are!
Go and measure them and compare to Cherry and OEM profile and to the MX-Board 2.0/3.0 that have real low-profile Cherry keys.

Also, there is no ISO Return key in DSA. DSA is ANSI-only, or you would have to use a Return key from another set.
PBT keys are a little bit warped and super-tight -- too tight for MX Clears that I had intended to use them on.

[ceflame]

If you do attempt to remove the stripped screw via drill bit, try and get one that is left handed.  You should be able to order one online.  Best case, when the bit starts cutting it will grab hard enough to pull the screw out.  Probable chance, it will drill through and then you can use the screw extractor.  Worst case, you break the bit half way through flush with the top of the screw.  At this point, if it is in a plastic case, you can kiss pretty much all chances of getting that screw out without a good drill press and some careful setup.

Thanks for the info. Left handed drill bit is used for screw removal or turning counter-clockwise from what I've researched? I'm not too experienced with this, but I'll try it. I'm just scared that I'll end up drilling something I shouldn't...

My humble opinion is that Granite is a special set because it is PBT and sublimated with a very special set of legends, and icons. It happens to be DSA that makes it a good fit for special boards like ergodox.

So it's about the layout flexibility then.

And OP, yeah I've had problems with the DSA spacebar sticking as well. Then I turned it around and it was better but it was still sticking.

Recently, I did what someone suggested in another thread, I left it in hot water for a few minutes, put something soft on it and applied pressure on it to a flat surface. It was slightly straighter than before and is definitely less sticky but it is still different from the stock abs spacebar that came with my board.   

I remember, the spacebar was my favourite key to press when I first got my board. I used to unplug it when watching videos or movies so I can press the spacebar while I'm watching. I'm just now able to do that anymore with the DSA spacebar. Tried changing the spacebar switch to a stiffer spring as well and used that for 2 weeks but it didn't help. It made the spacebar feel totally different but more tolerable that a sticky spacebar.

I also considered just leaving the spacebar as stock but the different profile got in the way of typing alot. The higher profile of the stock spacebar meant that I kept accidentally hitting it while typing.

Personally, I think having one board with DSA is enough. I don't think I'll get DSA for future boards anymore unless the design really catches my eye.

Hot water sounds like a decent idea... Though, I've never heard of anyone pressing just their spacebar for fun before ha.

I agree, having DSA for aesthetics is quite nice, but in terms of being practical for my personal preferences, it's a no go. Since I joined in on granite, I'll probably sell off this dolch set.

[00zeRO]

Me too.  I've been using the DSA Dolch set at work for a couple of weeks now, and I no longer hate the profile.  But I'd rather have DCS.

So...proof that DCS is still wanted...

...and people said my GB wasn't goin' nowheres because it is DCS...

Ha!  )

[tbc]

I got disappointed that the DSA weren't low-profile that people keep saying that they are.
They are friggin medium-profile, because SP says so and because they are!
Go and measure them and compare to Cherry and OEM profile and to the MX-Board 2.0/3.0 that have real low-profile Cherry keys.

Also, there is no ISO Return key in DSA. DSA is ANSI-only, or you would have to use a Return key from another set.
PBT keys are a little bit warped and super-tight -- too tight for MX Clears that I had intended to use them on.

sucks eh?

i'm using the alpha keys from a cherry 2.0 to test out the profile and it is GLORIOUS.

BUT it has raised legends, which makes it impossible to find the homing dash and is therefore useless.

we really need a GB for an ergodox kit.

[davkol]

PBT keys are a little bit warped and super-tight -- too tight for MX Clears that I had intended to use them on.

QFT

That's one reason, why I've switched back to Cherry; the other reason is thickness. Speaking of thickness, no more gabendamn paper-thin DCS please. Give me some PBT SA, baby. Even uniform row 3.

[dante]

The predecessor to the Cherry G80-3850 was the G80-3800.  It came with POM/PBT caps:



I've been toying with the idea of combing those with the DSA.  Some of the keycaps are non-standard; the DSA could be the replacements for those.

[ideus]

The predecessor to the Cherry G80-3850 was the G80-3800.  It came with POM/PBT caps:

Show Image

I've been toying with the idea of combing those with the DSA.  Some of the keycaps are non-standard; the DSA could be the replacements for those.

How much are these cherry sets? Are they ABS or PBT? Do you have a link for them?

[dante]

The predecessor to the Cherry G80-3850 was the G80-3800.  It came with POM/PBT caps:

Show Image

I've been toying with the idea of combing those with the DSA.  Some of the keycaps are non-standard; the DSA could be the replacements for those.

How much are these cherry sets? Are they ABS or PBT? Do you have a link for them?

There are about 30 stores on TaoBao.  Prices are around $30USD.  They either come in POM (Black) or PBT (White.)

edit: It also looks like they carry blank black/white sets too!  :eek:

[ideus]

The predecessor to the Cherry G80-3850 was the G80-3800.  It came with POM/PBT caps:

Show Image

I've been toying with the idea of combing those with the DSA.  Some of the keycaps are non-standard; the DSA could be the replacements for those.

How much are these cherry sets? Are they ABS or PBT? Do you have a link for them?

There are about 30 stores on TaoBao.  Prices are around $30USD.  They either come in POM (Black) or PBT (White.)

edit: It also looks like they carry blank black/white sets too!  :o

Thank you for the answer, do you know if they are DS, lasered, or pad printed?

[Pacifist]

pretty sure lasered

[ideus]

pretty sure lasered

Umm, well I'll  pass on them then.

[barihunk]

I'm new around these parts, but I wanted to put in my 2c. I managed to get in on the dolch set from SA, though I did manage to miss the granite set, which I would like to have as well. Anyways I put the dolch set on both my TKL and full sized WASD boards and they work like a dream. I think the flat profile and super textured caps really do it for me. I don't even miss the loss of the backlighting.

I think it was mentioned before, IMO the reason why these DSA sets have become popular is because of the ease of switching to alternate layouts (colemak/dvorak) and because of the recent upsurge in popularity of the ergodox. But hey, a decent quality keycap set for 55 bucks with nice doubleshot font? I'm going to take that running. kthx.

[hwood34]

The only thing that seems to throw me off with DSA is the height difference. When I type I expect to hit the cap earlier, but since DSA is lower with that crater, it really throws off my typing

[rowdy]

I'm new around these parts, but I wanted to put in my 2c. I managed to get in on the dolch set from SA, though I did manage to miss the granite set, which I would like to have as well. Anyways I put the dolch set on both my TKL and full sized WASD boards and they work like a dream. I think the flat profile and super textured caps really do it for me. I don't even miss the loss of the backlighting.

I think it was mentioned before, IMO the reason why these DSA sets have become popular is because of the ease of switching to alternate layouts (colemak/dvorak) and because of the recent upsurge in popularity of the ergodox. But hey, a decent quality keycap set for 55 bucks with nice doubleshot font? I'm going to take that running. kthx.

If you turn the backlighting up, you might get a glow coming from under the keycaps.

Under the right circumstances that can look fantastic!

[tbc]

I'm new around these parts, but I wanted to put in my 2c. I managed to get in on the dolch set from SA, though I did manage to miss the granite set, which I would like to have as well. Anyways I put the dolch set on both my TKL and full sized WASD boards and they work like a dream. I think the flat profile and super textured caps really do it for me. I don't even miss the loss of the backlighting.

I think it was mentioned before, IMO the reason why these DSA sets have become popular is because of the ease of switching to alternate layouts (colemak/dvorak) and because of the recent upsurge in popularity of the ergodox. But hey, a decent quality keycap set for 55 bucks with nice doubleshot font? I'm going to take that running. kthx.

If you turn the backlighting up, you might get a glow coming from under the keycaps.

Under the right circumstances that can look fantastic!

that's why it's called DSA.

Damn So Awesome

[ntw]

shoutout to TS, you are not the only one with the sticky spacebar problem. i even complained to SP and got a replacement spacebar but still it is sticky.

to other ppl, any other DSA profile keysets that are made of PBT? im totally in love with them and i wanted to get another set for my future board *yes, thats how much i liked DSA profile, im willing to get another set even before i got a keyboard to use it on

[Puddsy]

It doesn't even look that great...

I don't know why people like it so much, it's pretty lame IMO.

[ideus]

The discussion was focused on functionality, and now is just another emotional one on like / dislike points of views.

[SpAmRaY]

shoutout to TS, you are not the only one with the sticky spacebar problem. i even complained to SP and got a replacement spacebar but still it is sticky.

to other ppl, any other DSA profile keysets that are made of PBT? im totally in love with them and i wanted to get another set for my future board *yes, thats how much i liked DSA profile, im willing to get another set even before i got a keyboard to use it on

What set do you have now?