Facts & data: Your SA & DSA typing experiences. What type do you prefer and WHY?

[ideus]

Please share your experience on SA and DSA typing with the community. You may prefer one of the shapes, and it would be very informative if you let us know why. Preference for other profiles may be keep to be shared in other threads.

[jacobolus]

I really like the sculptured spherical Alps caps on old Canon typewriters (about halfway between Signature Plastics’ SS and DSS profiles). I’m also a big fan of beam spring boards, and other old high-profile spherical cap keyboards. HaaTa has a few interesting ones.

Unfortunately SP has “retired” their DSS profile, but SS should still be possible to get some group buy up for. Hopefully I can get access to a few SS samples within the next few weeks sometime, I’ll be sure to post a quick review.

For explanation, see http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63052

[nilpt]

For me a low profile like DSA "adds" nothing to the keyboard:
With tall MX sphericals you can "caress" the caps (in a TKL just let your fingers between the number and F row and the thumb below the spacebar, when not typing).
Sculptured MX SA with its added weight/height, over DSA, is the best I've used so far.
If there was a TKL topre Hi-Pro I would be all over it... 

[rowdy]

I was worried that I would not like typing on DSA, and ordered the Granite set to see what all the fuss was about.

Then someone mentioned that the uniform profile is like typing on scissor switch keyboards, which I have used extensively, so my hopes for liking them were raised.

When they arrived, I installed them onto a keyboard and started typing.

To me there is not that much profile difference between the rows on a set of Cherry or OEM profile keycaps (unless you count placing top and middle row keycaps next to each other).  For most purposes Cherry and OEM are mostly flat to me.

DSA seemed the same, only slightly more so.

They are not the same as typing on scissor switches, as scissor switch keycaps are completely flat and, at least on the Apple aluminium keyboard, depress almost to the level of the plate.

DSA are narrower at the top than the base, and to me that makes a significant difference when typing on them, in contradistinction to the shape of scissor switch keycaps.

I quite liked DSA, and did not have any problems typing on them, except for one - for a while now I have been actually growing my finger nails, and I found that they seemed to catch on the keycaps far more than on Cherry or OEM profile keycaps.  Whether I was over-compensating for the completely uniform height, or whether I was trying to treat the keycaps like scissor switch keycaps (completely flat on top), I don't know.

After a few months I removed them and went back to OEM profile.

I have no plans to sell my DSA Granite set, and will probably try them again at some stage, but on switches other than MX green.

I have not tried SA - my first SA set, Nuclear Data Green, is either in the post at the moment or not far off.

[nilpt]

...

I have not tried SA - my first SA set, Nuclear Data Green, is either in the post at the moment or not far off.

It is a shame that Nuclear Data Green is all Row 3, just like a raised DSA.
Anyway, I have one of those coming my way... 

[Puddsy]

Don't like either of them. SA is too high, DSA just feels... wrong. I prefer any cylindrical profile over D/SA

[hwood34]

While I certainly prefer DCS and cherry profile, DSA is also pretty nice. The deepness of the caps let's your finger rest more comfortably on the caps, but since it's lower your fingers really feal the difference of the presses, considering you start lower and finish lower. SA is OK, the extra weight feels kinda nice, it's just feels to tall to be comfortable.

[CPTBadAss]

I didn't like my experience with DSA. The cap surface area is slightly less than say DCS or SA and I find my fingers "hunting" for that surface area. It really slows me down and is frustrating to no end for me.

I like SA caps. They're thick, I like how tall they are, and they feel smooth/cuppy. I like them so much that I'm going to swear off DCS and DSA from now on and embrace the SA love.

[dante]

I like SA caps. They're thick, I like how tall they are, and they feel smooth/cuppy. I like them so much that I'm going to swear off DCS and DSA from now on and embrace the SA love.

 

[3Love]

If you don't like OEM profile keycaps, you may try to find cherry keycaps. I love GMK and cherry very much.
Hope it is useful to u

[heedpantsnow]

I have tried to like SA (Calm Depths). It is just too tall and sculpted.  My fingers hit upper keys much earlier than expected, and so I was bottoming out every stroke. Even when I concentrated, couldn't make it work. Also not so practical for a portable board.

DSA was just kindof meh. Tried for a long time on Retro set. Great for a portable keyboard, but I guess I just didn't enjoy typing on it more than I would a laptop keyboard.

In the end, I just feel like Cherry/OEM/DCS type profiles are the perfect middle ground. It's a shame, everything seems to be coming out in SA these days with flames for anyone who desires otherwise. I wish we had a good selection of innovative keysets in the more standard profiles. That's life I guess.

[rowdy]

I didn't like my experience with DSA. The cap surface area is slightly less than say DCS or SA and I find my fingers "hunting" for that surface area. It really slows me down and is frustrating to no end for me.

I like SA caps. They're thick, I like how tall they are, and they feel smooth/cuppy. I like them so much that I'm going to swear off DCS and DSA from now on and embrace the SA love.

A convert to the Church of Elrick

[Oobly]

SA 4 Lyfe, y'all. Or something like that.

DSA feels weird to my fingers and they're not quite thick and heavy enough for my taste. SA profile also takes a little getting used to, but I don't mistype on all Row 3 SA when I switch like I do on DSA. I love the spherical tops that guide your fingers into the centre of the caps. And the weight and solidity of them is amazing. They feel very nice. Can't wait for full contour SA sets to arrive, PuLSE will be my first, then whichever set Matt3o decides to run next in SA.

DCS doubleshot ABS home row caps weigh around 0.8g (0.78g to be exact), DSA around 1g (haven't been able to find a post showing accurate weight, though), SA home row almost 2g (1.95g)!

[ideus]

Very interesting:

Weight: SA 1.95 gr, DSA 1 gr.

Does anybody know the top surface area?
Do you prefer SA set in row 3 only shape, or contoured?

[ideus]

If you don't like OEM profile keycaps, you may try to find cherry keycaps. I love GMK and cherry very much.
Hope it is useful to u

I have a couple of original and old GMK sets, one in black and one in beige. I think each decent GHer should have one of each  . I do like them a lot, however the options for special keyboards are limited. The sets I have needed moogle sets to fit a standard ANSI keyboard. Recent groups like Ivan's already included the necessary keys to fit an standard ANSI, but that is a relatively recent option, that was available only after a reachable MOQ was negotiated by him.

The question here is about SA and DSA profiles, that may offer an alternative for those of us that like to try a different style but want also full functionality. While Cherry profile is nice, it looks to common some times. I would like to have my keyboard to look a little different, and I think these profiles have a nice old school look and feel.

I have tried DSA extensively with both ABS and PBT, and I like the look, but not the feel. As others have shared, the small top area of the keys is not the best for typing.

[CPTBadAss]

Does anybody know the top surface area?
Do you prefer SA set in row 3 only shape, or contoured?

The surface area is definitely larger than DSA. Don't know what it is exactly though. And I like contoured more than Row 3 only but I'll take either one.

[3Love]

If you don't like OEM profile keycaps, you may try to find cherry keycaps. I love GMK and cherry very much.
Hope it is useful to u

I have a couple of original and old GMK sets, one in black and one in beige. I think each decent GHer should have one of each  . I do like them a lot, however the options for special keyboards are limited. The sets I have needed moogle sets to fit a standard ANSI keyboard. Recent groups like Ivan's already included the necessary keys to fit an standard ANSI, but that is a relatively recent option, that was available only after a reachable MOQ was negotiated by him.

The question here is about SA and DSA profiles, that may offer an alternative for those of us that like to try a different style but want also full functionality. While Cherry profile is nice, it looks to common some times. I would like to have my keyboard to look a little different, and I think these profiles have a nice old school look and feel.

I have tried DSA extensively with both ABS and PBT, and I like the look, but not the feel. As others have shared, the small top area of the keys is not the best for typing.

DSA and SA should be a nice try.
We need to try everything. Hope you find your best touch feeling!

[jacobolus]

Funny about the “top area” comments: this guy feels just the opposite,
http://www.johnbear.net/symbolics-keyboard-paper/MacIvoryKeyboard.pdf
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65048.0

The tops of the MacIvory keys are 0.50 inches wide by 0.50 inches high. On an Ortek Adesso keyboard (an add-on for Macintosh computers) the key tops are 0.50 inches wide, but 0.57 inches high, and consequently, the rows (on the Adesso) are 0.18 inches apart as opposed to 0.25 inches for the MacIvory.

These photos show that the distance between key tops is larger for the MacIvory. This may lead to fewer typing mistakes on the MacIvory. My conjecture: The larger distance between rows makes it easier to avoid accidentally pressing neighboring keys, leading to fewer typing mistakes, and less repetitive strain.

To be fair though, the profile he likes so much is sculptured, basically like DSS, and I’m sure that helps quite a bit.

[ideus]

In general the heavier key, with larger tops, and the sculpted profile contribute to a better typing experience. I hope to have the opportunity to try some SA in PBT with dysub legends soon, either in row 3 or contoured profile.

Are you listening Matt?

[Oobly]

I definitely prefer contoured, although I can live with all Row 3.

Perhaps it's just that my fingers are used to larger tops that I mistype less on SA than DSA, since the expected centre of the key is about the same distance from the edge that my fingers detect. Or that the large gaps don't allow my fingers to index on the next key nicely if I slide them across lightly (to feel the transition), but rather get confused by the distance, expecting the edge of the next key to start sooner. Speculation, but it's an interesting topic.

[jacobolus]

I hope to have the opportunity to try some SA in PBT with dysub legends soon,

Signature plastics doesn’t do PBT SA keycaps. So if you want to find this, you’ll need to find another vendor with high-profile spherical keycaps. Paying for new tooling is probably cost prohibitive... good luck!

[Oobly]

From the Skull Squadron thread:

I believe I will concentrate on PBT, both sublimated and double-shot.... wait what?!

Yes, you heard it right

the key words here are: SA and PBT I can't really say anything more for now.

So it may well be that we could be getting a doubleshot PBT SA profile set GB from Matt3o in the near-ish future. I believe he is waiting for SP to make the Row 4 Shift molds ready before starting the next SA GB so he can offer full contour, too...

Doubleshot full contour SA profile PBT...

[jacobolus]

the key words here are: SA and PBT I can't really say anything more for now.

So it may well be that we could be getting a doubleshot PBT SA profile set GB from Matt3o in the near-ish future.

It didn’t sound like signature plastics was involved there, though. I am curious to see what his other supplier can make.

[ideus]

SP wrote last night:
 
Eric,

Unfortunately our SA tooling is designed to run ABS only. Sorry.

Bob

Melissa Petersen
Signature Plastics LLC
 

[Oobly]

Very interesting.... Will it really be SA profile in that case or just something similar? Colour me intrigued...

[davkol]

They have PBT SA keycaps in their inventory, and there are other parties that can do dye sublimation. No idea how's that realistic for a GB though.

[Oobly]

I just put GMK Dolch on my board and... I prefer SA.

The stepped effect from the angled tops of Cherry and DCS profile just feels wrong after using SA for a while. It feels like you have to raise your fingers up over the edges when typing, whereas with SA it feels like the keycap tops are a bit closer together and requires less effort. I'm getting more and more excited for my PuLSE set to arrive.

[ConscienceDrop]

Doubleshot full contour SA profile PBT...

please . . .   

[yasuo]

SA 4 Lyfe, y'all. Or something like that.

DSA feels weird to my fingers and they're not quite thick and heavy enough for my taste. SA profile also takes a little getting used to, but I don't mistype on all Row 3 SA when I switch like I do on DSA. I love the spherical tops that guide your fingers into the centre of the caps. And the weight and solidity of them is amazing. They feel very nice. Can't wait for full contour SA sets to arrive, PuLSE will be my first, then whichever set Matt3o decides to run next in SA.

DCS doubleshot ABS home row caps weigh around 0.8g (0.78g to be exact), DSA around 1g (haven't been able to find a post showing accurate weight, though), SA home row almost 2g (1.95g)!

i want seen ur oobly board with SA

Funny about the “top area” comments: this guy feels just the opposite,
http://www.johnbear.net/symbolics-keyboard-paper/MacIvoryKeyboard.pdf
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65048.0

The tops of the MacIvory keys are 0.50 inches wide by 0.50 inches high. On an Ortek Adesso keyboard (an add-on for Macintosh computers) the key tops are 0.50 inches wide, but 0.57 inches high, and consequently, the rows (on the Adesso) are 0.18 inches apart as opposed to 0.25 inches for the MacIvory.

These photos show that the distance between key tops is larger for the MacIvory. This may lead to fewer typing mistakes on the MacIvory. My conjecture: The larger distance between rows makes it easier to avoid accidentally pressing neighboring keys, leading to fewer typing mistakes, and less repetitive strain.

To be fair though, the profile he likes so much is sculptured, basically like DSS, and I’m sure that helps quite a bit.

interisting large spacing to avoid accidentally pressing neighboring keys
i've seen women typing in youtube 300wpm with steno like this

[yasuo]

[deleted]

[ideus]

I have been using Granite and Skull at work and at home, respectively for several months now. Yesterday I changed back to my old Cherry beige set on my Poker at home, and I should say I prefer the Cherry as some of you have explained, I think that it has to do more with the small top of DSA, and the cylindrical ones of Cherry. I prefer also the smooth surface of my worn off Cherry to the granny one on the new DSA, particularly PBT feels lighter than ABS when comparing the Granite and the Skull set.


In summary I will back to my old Cherry sets, I just hope some of the upcoming GMK modifiers set reach their MoQ because I do not like how the SP made moogles I have match with Cherry, these have squared corners that look awesome, while SP's are rounded and look more like a Lego block than a professional key cap.


I will decide later if I would sell my DSA.


Thank you for your comments, I confirm most of the drawbacks you reported on DSA.

[Dihedral]

Interested in how SA is in comparison to OEM as I have only ever used that profile.

[TopreFan333]

I have to transition between an ultra low-profile MacBook keyboard and my nice mechanical keyboard, and I find DSA provides an easy transition for my fingers because of the key height and uniformity.