Author Topic: What does DSA feel like?  (Read 31682 times)

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Offline dummytim

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What does DSA feel like?
« on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 22:21:23 »
Yes, I do realize that there's a search bar. I have used it and was confused with the results I got, so I decided that the best way was to make a thread about it.

I know that a lot of people recently got their "crap bags" and a lot of them came with DSA caps. So I would believe that some of those users have at least tried it out for the first time or something like that. I would like to know what they hype around them are? I was considering purchasing a blank set of DSA PBT caps off PMK, but wasn't sure if I should pull the trigger just yet since shipping to Canada costs a fair bit more.

So any input would help me in my future decision. :)


Offline whmeltonjr

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 22:25:44 »
I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower. Bought a set of Granite and couldn't get used to them. If you're using ABS OEM profile caps, then the PBT DSA caps will feel more textured.

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 22:30:56 »
I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower. Bought a set of Granite and couldn't get used to them. If you're using ABS OEM profile caps, then the PBT DSA caps will feel more textured.

Did you need to like change up your finger placements due to the different sizes? They're also much more flatter in their profiles right?

I'm currently typing on the "Midnight" ABS set. I kind of like it, but I'm not sure if it'll shine in the long term due to my hands. I actually have really sweaty hands and I've kind of killed my Ducky Shine 3 keycaps.

I do have some PBT blanks on my Poker 2 and I enjoy those.

Offline hashbaz

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 22:33:12 »
Like ****e, in my opinion.

Offline raymogi

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 22:34:57 »
I got attracted to the looks of the DSA Granite so I bought the set.

After using it for a couple minutes though I quickly take it out. The feeling is just not there. Cherry profile all the way.
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Offline whmeltonjr

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 22:35:21 »
You may have seen this, but if not this shows all the profiles. DSA have a spherical top. I didn't have to change the position of my hands or anything, it was just the smaller tops that made me miss more often.


Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 22:38:01 »
Looks like from these responses I might be better off buying someones random crap bag of DSA keys and testing the profile out rather than going straight to PMK to buy the PBT ones.

Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 23:50:44 »
That's probably a good idea. You can't really determine how you will like something based on someone else's preferences. I happen to love spherical keycaps of all kinds and loathe cylindrical tops with the burning passion of a hundred suns. Sphericals feel natural to me and I love how they look. But it may be utterly different for you.

Offline rowdy

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 23:58:44 »
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 01:27:37 »
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

What's the difference between SA and DSA besides the like height difference. The tops of the SA caps are still cylindrical right?

Offline rowdy

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 03:35:13 »
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

What's the difference between SA and DSA besides the like height difference. The tops of the SA caps are still cylindrical right?

Yes, that's why I find it weird that I like SA but not DSA.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline just66in

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 03:45:14 »
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

What's the difference between SA and DSA besides the like height difference. The tops of the SA caps are still cylindrical right?

Yes, that's why I find it weird that I like SA but not DSA.

You're not the July one haha I hate DSA but like SA alot as well

Offline azhdar

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 03:47:06 »
awful
Azerty Propagandiste


Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 04:25:08 »
A quick search pulled up these threads.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49485.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44502.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65100.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59133.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49086.0

I've actually read most of these before, and a lot of things were just mixed. Seems like the thread pulled a mixed response too. So I guess the only way is to try it myself and maybe post my own opinion.


Offline davkol

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 06:06:40 »
DSA is spherical, uniform profile, rough (texture) and very tight on stems (at least Cherry MX). It was probably supposed to be used on various industrial keypads (thus tight fit and uniform profile)… I suppose it worked quite well, because you wouldn't touch type on such a thing anyway, while isolated precise keystrokes would be a priority (thus rough texture and spherical keytops).

As an "enthusiast", I very much don't like the tight fit though, because it makes removing keycaps (for cleaning or to be replaced) a PITA. The medium stiffness (compared to thick Cherry or SA) doesn't help the sound/feel of switches either. At last but not least, I'm not a fan of a uniform profile for touch typing.

Offline njbair

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 07:04:13 »
Like typing on #57 gravel aggregate.

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Offline jerue

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 07:18:30 »
I would go as far to say experiences are different with ABS DSA caps vs PBT

PBT DSA kinda feels like typing on granite (ayy lmao), ABS DSA isn't too bad, the finish is smoother so it might not be as "sensual" to your fingers.

I don't really like either. I LOATHE DSA caps on mx clears, they are stickier than Cinnabons.

SA caps are taller, and heavier due to the plastic. I really like SA on topre switches (Novatouch), can't really think of anything else I think it feels good on, it's too wobbly on most MX switches.

Offline lolpes

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 07:30:09 »
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)



Offline Hypersphere

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 08:09:54 »
DSA presents two problems for me: (1) spherical tops; and (2) flat (non-sculpted) profile. I like the appearance of spherical tops, but I also like the look of a sculpted profile. I have trouble typing on DSA, and it is difficult to tell if this is due to the spherical tops, flat profile, or both.

Another issue is that I much prefer typing on PBT rather than ABS, and it seems that there are technical difficulties with producing PBT caps in a higher sculpted profile such as SA.

My preferred profiles include Topre (and Topre caps are ideally matched to the switches) and "OEM". I prefer OEM profile over Cherry or Leopold because it is high enough to avoid conflicts with stabilizer wires and LEDs, but it is more difficult to find high-quality PBT caps in OEM profile than in Cherry or Leopold profile.
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2015, 12:21:08 by Hypersphere »

Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 12:11:40 »
I love the look of Granite and Dolch DSA sets. I like the feel of them too (one is PBT, the other ABS).

However, I've come to regard DSA as only suitable (for me) on my Pok3rs. They get hooked up to my iPad (one Pok3r at work, one Pok3r at home) where I don't do much typing except for forum posts for the most part. Small keyboard with medium profile sphericals. A great combination for me.

But when it comes to all the software coding I do, whether at work or at home, I prefer full ANSI 104 keyboards with fully sculpted SA sets. SAs are smooth and semi-glossy and noticeably heavier than even PBT DSAs, so they feel very different.

I like the variety of sensations that textured, medium-profile (uniform R3) DSAs and smooth, high-profile, sculpted SAs provide.

Offline QuickDelat

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 12:13:03 »
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)

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This, but replace galaxy class with granite. It takes some time to get used to though.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 13:55:49 »
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)

Show Image


+1

Apart from the legend issues, quality issues etc. they are pretty nice to type on, very comfortable

I like having sculptured keycaps, yet the added comfort and optimal pressing area from DSA's kind of made up for the lack of sculpture

You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme

If anyone is thinking of settling with DSA's for a while, it wouldn't be a bad decision, I'm still using 2 DSA blanks for my thumb-fn buttons with GMK Cherry's, can't beat their comfort yet, tho I really want to beat their comfort, because the crookedness of the keycaps sometimes gets on my nerves
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Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 15:54:19 »
You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme

What switches were you using that you could feel the switches better?

I currently have a lubed ergo clear board and browns on another board. I could already feel a huge difference, wondering if I would be able to feel more of a difference if I swapped out those keycaps to DSA.
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 November 2015, 15:56:39 by dummytim »

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 17:01:11 »
You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme

What switches were you using that you could feel the switches better?

I currently have a lubed ergo clear board and browns on another board. I could already feel a huge difference, wondering if I would be able to feel more of a difference if I swapped out those keycaps to DSA.

lubed tactile clears/grays - a very subjective experience tho
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Offline Oobly

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 03:01:16 »
You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme

What switches were you using that you could feel the switches better?

I currently have a lubed ergo clear board and browns on another board. I could already feel a huge difference, wondering if I would be able to feel more of a difference if I swapped out those keycaps to DSA.

lubed tactile clears/grays - a very subjective experience tho

The main reason for this IMO is the keycap mass. DSA caps are light, so are DCS and most OEM ABS caps. Heavier keycaps tend to dampen / smooth out the feeling from the switch, so you feel the specific differences between switches less. You'll experience the same effect with DCS or other light caps. It also means you feel the "scratchiness" of stock MX more easily with light caps.

The biggest problem I have with DSA caps is the size of the top area is too small and this makes it easy to hit the edge of the top instead of the centre and this feels bad to me and breaks my typing flow. Then the lightness / lack of thickness, then the lack of depth in the "deep dish" homing keys. The biggest pros of DSA are the height and being able to swap caps around for Dvorak / Colemak, etc.

I much prefer the "heft" of heavy caps on lightish springs, it's almost like having properly weighted piano keys instead of light, plastic keys from a Yamaha Portasound. The balance of SA profile caps on lubed 62 ErgoClears or 65g Zealios is just about perfect IMHO.
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Offline KHAANNN

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 05:39:59 »
Interestingly, I compared some spacebars a while ago, GMK/DSA Spacebars were both around 6g, the PBT's are around 7g, if I remember correctly

But GMK definitely feels heavier than DSA

DSA feels clumsy/weak because of the warping, it messes with both cherry and costar stabs, probably cherry more

Can't comment on SA tho, it's obviously heavier, I actually have one around that I can weigh but I'm just too lazy
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Offline keshley

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 07:23:59 »
Another thing to keep in mind; When comparing DSA to SA, while, yes, they are both cylindrical keycaps, DSA are much shallower. I'm talking about the concave area of the keycap, not the keycap height.

I don't like DSA on anything other than small keyboards. TKL and larger, it just doesn't feel all that great IMO. I don't mind it on a 60% though.

If you like scissor switch boards (laptop boards, current apple boards, etc), you'll probably like DSA. But they hug your fingers slightly compared to chiclet keys. Which I like, but not everybody does.
  
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Offline hKing

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 08:12:34 »
I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower.

This. I bought a set of DSA blanks and couldn't get used to it, too. Made way more typos. Can't recommend them.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 08:25:13 »
I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower.

This. I bought a set of DSA blanks and couldn't get used to it, too. Made way more typos. Can't recommend them.

You will make more typos with any kind of significant change

My max wpm was roughly the same with DSA's vs others, tho admittedly 5 wpm-ish better with Cherry's

I also attributed all my typos to DSA's during my time with them, I still make similar typos with Cherry's, tho DSA's also had row-mismatch based typos, sculpture's reduce that significantly, currently my main typo is "d"/"s"
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Offline lolpes

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 08:27:24 »
I write a little faster with dsa, because i came from 3 years straight using only a lapdtop keyboard, so it took me a bit to get used to cherry profile, and dsa with a flat profile is more familiar :)

Offline dan002

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 09:14:11 »
Referring to the DSA from my keyset, they feel textured and solid. On my 2015 cherry board the stock keys feel rubbery and almost 'sticky'.

The cherry corp. profile is taller then DSA.

DSA in green and Cherry Corp. in black
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Offline davkol

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 09:28:48 »
The cherry corp. profile is taller then DSA.
Except it's not. Only the number/function row has the whole keytop higher than DSA—it's the exact opposite on the home row, and the surrounding rows are sculpted in case of Cherry profile.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 09:34:20 »
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)

Show Image


lo, why is that a 9gag photo? :)
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Offline Zanduby

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 09:36:48 »
Out of the few profiles i've tried and used, it took me the longest to get used to. I have been using a dsa set on my daily driver for about 4 months now and I find it very comfortable and by far my favorite to type with. I do enjoy SA as well, but unless I have a good wrist rest, I have to arc my fingers too much and they get sore after a while. DSA is nice and flat and I personally can type longer on them. Of course this is all subjective and it's always different for everyone.

Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 09:59:50 »
Most about DSA has be said already.


Just to sum the main "features":


1. Small tops require more precision for touch typing.
2. The flat profile challenges your typing skills a bit more.
3. SP manufactures them with pretty thin walls, that makes them to feel unsubstantial.
4. The finish tends to be rough, PBT will keep it, but ABS will shine while still feeling rough. It may be a weird feeling for some.
5. The finish tends to keep dirt, easier than other cap finishes.
6. Dye sub PBT caps are warped, it is more critical with over one unit long key caps, except the space bar that does not require the dye sub.

Offline lolpes

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 10:09:33 »
Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)

Show Image


lo, why is that a 9gag photo? :)

It's not :P i used a meme generator ;) maybe the link is tied to 9gag, tough that would be strange since i never uploaded it...

Offline drewba

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 11:53:49 »
I will admit I picked up a DSA set mostly for looks but after using it I do not regret my purchase. I'm a strong touch typer and only have issues with DSA on the number or F row when I am out of practice (the keyboard with DSA is on a rotation(I feel like that's the nerdiest thing I've ever said in my life)). That particular keyboard has ergo clears which I used to hit my type racer top speed (142 WPM). I'm not implying DSA makes you type faster but it certainly does not slow me down. For me, it just feels like typing on a keyboard full of homing keys, I like it.

I only have two qualms with DSA. First, I agree with Oobly, DSA is just too light & I wish they were more substantial keys. Second, some keys look slightly warped, aren't perfectly flat or have nubs on the rear of the key. The irregularities on the majority of the keys is enough to make me not want to buy another DSA set. Check out all of these inconsistencies:

« Last Edit: Mon, 09 November 2015, 11:56:50 by drewba »

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 12:09:03 »
I see a few people saying that DSA switches are too light. Would there be a difference in weight with PBT or ABS DSA caps? For some reason I have it in my head that PBT is supposed to be heavier than the ABS ones.

Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 09 November 2015, 13:24:26 »
I have small hands and small fingers. Maybe that's why DSA and its "smaller" top surface doesn't pose any problem for me. Is it possible that the folks who have issues with the top surface area have big ol' sausage fingers or something?

The comment about finger angle being wrong with SA surprises me. The whole point of sculpted, high-profile SA keycaps is to put further keys closer to your fingers so you don't have to reach as far. It is why vintage boards had curved backplates and why modern OEM keycaps are sculpted. If a set of sculpted SA keycaps make your fingers ache, then I suspect something else (about the setup) is wrong.

BTW, I don't "feel" the switch more with DSAs. But that may be because I use MX reds. Soft linears don't have any feel to them the way tactile switches do. If you are using tactile switches, then you will always be at the mercy of the keycap to transmit the tactile "bump" to your fingers. Size, thickness, and material will all play a role. Which is a shame because I wouldn't want my choice of keycaps to have that much impact on my experience of the switches.

Offline dan002

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 21:32:26 »
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info
Peace, love and keyboards.

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 01:20:08 »
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info

Very interesting read, thanks for the info.

Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.

Offline gadzkun

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 01:24:43 »
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop  :blank:

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 01:29:25 »
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop  :blank:

Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?

Offline gadzkun

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 01:33:20 »
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop  :blank:

Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?

the placement/position/or... my finger feels like typing in laptop. its just feels really flat, i prefer oem.
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2015, 01:34:57 by gadzkun »

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 02:49:57 »
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop  :blank:

Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?

the placement/position/or... my finger feels like typing in laptop. its just feels really flat, i prefer oem.

Have you had the opportunity to try out SA caps yet? I'm kind of curious as to how those feel compared to DSA as well.

Offline rowdy

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 03:35:37 »
when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop  :blank:

Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?

the placement/position/or... my finger feels like typing in laptop. its just feels really flat, i prefer oem.

Possibly because DSA keycaps are all the same height, so the keyboard appears flat, like a laptop keyboard.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Oobly

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 05:47:09 »
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info

Very interesting read, thanks for the info.

Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.

POM is denser than PBT (but only a little) and they're both denser than ABS (by quite a bit). This is why PBT and POM caps sink in water, but ABS float.

A little comparison of Row 3 DCS and SA ABS doubleshots:

116982-0

116984-1

I suspect the DSA caps are very similar to the DCS Row 3 (DCS are thinner walled, but taller), even in PBT. There just isn't enough material to make them "heavy". SA Row 1 are even heavier. Love my SA caps.

Thick PBT Cherry Row 3 (Row "C") are in between, at just over 1g (about 1.2g for my black on black IIRC). Will measure when I have a moment.
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Offline graefeln

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 08:02:59 »
I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

Well I am happy to hear this. I wasn't a fan of DSA either, but will be getting my first uniform SA next year when Danger Zone ships; I was a little worried about whether or not I would like the feel. I still think I will prefer sculpted as well though.

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 14:26:27 »
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info

Very interesting read, thanks for the info.

Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.

POM is denser than PBT (but only a little) and they're both denser than ABS (by quite a bit). This is why PBT and POM caps sink in water, but ABS float.

A little comparison of Row 3 DCS and SA ABS doubleshots:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I suspect the DSA caps are very similar to the DCS Row 3 (DCS are thinner walled, but taller), even in PBT. There just isn't enough material to make them "heavy". SA Row 1 are even heavier. Love my SA caps.

Thick PBT Cherry Row 3 (Row "C") are in between, at just over 1g (about 1.2g for my black on black IIRC). Will measure when I have a moment.

Wow I did not expect anyone to actually measure the weight of the caps. I also didn't think that the DSA cap would be heavier than a DCS cap.

Thanks for doing that though, really appreciate it.

Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 15:16:51 »
Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info

Very interesting read, thanks for the info.

Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.

POM is denser than PBT (but only a little) and they're both denser than ABS (by quite a bit). This is why PBT and POM caps sink in water, but ABS float.

A little comparison of Row 3 DCS and SA ABS doubleshots:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I suspect the DSA caps are very similar to the DCS Row 3 (DCS are thinner walled, but taller), even in PBT. There just isn't enough material to make them "heavy". SA Row 1 are even heavier. Love my SA caps.

Thick PBT Cherry Row 3 (Row "C") are in between, at just over 1g (about 1.2g for my black on black IIRC). Will measure when I have a moment.

Wow I did not expect anyone to actually measure the weight of the caps. I also didn't think that the DSA cap would be heavier than a DCS cap.

Thanks for doing that though, really appreciate it.


For the record: The compared cap is SA not DSA. It is not DSA.

Offline dthai17

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 12 November 2015, 06:27:13 »
In my opinion, DSA caps are horrid to type on when compared to SA for comfort. The angled aspect of SA is a lot better.

Offline rowdy

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 12 November 2015, 19:44:52 »
In my opinion, DSA caps are horrid to type on when compared to SA for comfort. The angled aspect of SA is a lot better.

So presumably you do not like uniform profile SA?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 12 November 2015, 22:47:23 »
In my opinion, DSA caps are horrid to type on when compared to SA for comfort. The angled aspect of SA is a lot better.

So presumably you do not like uniform profile SA?

I know I don't particularly like the idea. To my mind, the only advantage DSA has over SA is that it can come in PBT. As I understand it, it's uniform profile is largely the result of two things: SP's unwillingness to invest in DSA molds for the other rows, and their (business) decision to use (uniform) DSA to acquire commercial/industrial contracts where such keys are often the norm. It's not because SP expected the mech keyboard community to adopt it as an artisinal keycap profile.

The way I see it, sculpted row profiles are optimal for typing, and that's what we use our keyboards for around here. I think even gamers can benefit from sculpted rows despite the fact that they probably aren't touch typing anything, not even their text chats. A uniform R3 profile isn't meant for us and doesn't really benefit us, except to the extent to which it provides layout flexibility for the 1% (of custom keycap buyers) out there with international or oddball layouts. But that's hardly a reason to infect SA with a uniform profile.

Offline Oobly

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 05:02:36 »
... that's hardly a reason to infect SA with a uniform profile.

"The first keycap family produced by Signature Plastics’ previous company, Comptec Inc., was the SA family. These keys had a Spherical touch area and the same profile for All rows."

All Row 3 SA predates all other SP profiles. "Sculptured SA" was made some time in th '80s after the failures of SS and DSS to become popular. DSS is in fact sculptured DSA, but SP don't make it any more. SS was an angled, sculptured tall spherical profile. I'd love to have been able to try that one :)

I happen to like both uniform SA and sculptured SA, with sculptured being nicer to type on, but not a massive difference. SA keytops are actually the same size as DSA, but have a better curvature and feel nicer to me, especially in gloss or semi-matte compared to DSA's matte only texture.

Interestingly enough, Cherry and DCS cap tops are narrower horizontally than SA and DSA.

I am very interested in trying out Devlin's "Q" profile as a low, uniform profile (kind of a thicker, better DSA-equivalent). I think I'd prefer the nice wide tops and more subtle matte texture:

Buying more keycaps,
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Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 13:13:38 »
SA may have started out uniform, probably for cost reasons, but it is fully sculpted now. It seems to me that making uniform SA sets today makes about as much sense as willingly designing double-shot sets with (the old) R3 Shift molds and the old SHIF T legend. These are manufacturing limitations that simply no longer apply.

The only reason left I can think of to go uniform R3 is to provide maximum layout flexibility. And while (a relatively small number of) international and fringe users certainly appreciate that, it is nevertheless a misuse of the SA family, in my opinion. Keyboards built for typing have had sculpted rows for eons, whether achieved by way of curved backplates, angled switch stems, or sculpted keycaps. I'm pretty sure this has been the case since long before I got into computers (in 1981).

Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 13:19:30 »
... that's hardly a reason to infect SA with a uniform profile.

"The first keycap family produced by Signature Plastics’ previous company, Comptec Inc., was the SA family. These keys had a Spherical touch area and the same profile for All rows."

All Row 3 SA predates all other SP profiles. "Sculptured SA" was made some time in th '80s after the failures of SS and DSS to become popular. DSS is in fact sculptured DSA, but SP don't make it any more. SS was an angled, sculptured tall spherical profile. I'd love to have been able to try that one :)

I happen to like both uniform SA and sculptured SA, with sculptured being nicer to type on, but not a massive difference. SA keytops are actually the same size as DSA, but have a better curvature and feel nicer to me, especially in gloss or semi-matte compared to DSA's matte only texture.

Interestingly enough, Cherry and DCS cap tops are narrower horizontally than SA and DSA.

I am very interested in trying out Devlin's "Q" profile as a low, uniform profile (kind of a thicker, better DSA-equivalent). I think I'd prefer the nice wide tops and more subtle matte texture:

Show Image



This is a very interesting explanation of SP profiles; after, reading it I would like to try Devlin's Q, with a softer texture, that would be more better to type on. Where they can be found?

Offline Oobly

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 15:11:50 »
SA may have started out uniform, probably for cost reasons, but it is fully sculpted now. It seems to me that making uniform SA sets today makes about as much sense as willingly designing double-shot sets with (the old) R3 Shift molds and the old SHIF T legend. These are manufacturing limitations that simply no longer apply.

The only reason left I can think of to go uniform R3 is to provide maximum layout flexibility. And while (a relatively small number of) international and fringe users certainly appreciate that, it is nevertheless a misuse of the SA family, in my opinion. Keyboards built for typing have had sculpted rows for eons, whether achieved by way of curved backplates, angled switch stems, or sculpted keycaps. I'm pretty sure this has been the case since long before I got into computers (in 1981).

Apple does not make a single contoured keyboard any more. Not one. I guess you could argue they're not meant for typing, though.  :p

Logitech make many uniform boards, as do a more and more manufacturers nowadays. As more people use boards at flatter angles, the angled back contoured caps of old become less needed, although a contoured set is better to type on for sure. SA was developed as a flat set. It's only "become" a ture fully sculptured set now with the completion of the Row 4 Shift molds.

We're going with all Row3 SA for our Classic Space set because it matches the theme and core concept the best of all available profiles and that's a reason you've missed. It also allows us to use relegendables as novelties (this is not mentioned yet in the thread).

Unfortunately Devlin doesn't sell direct to the public, but UKKeycaps is in discussions with them to start running GB's and hopefully we'll be able to design sets with them soon :)
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Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 16:58:46 »
Wow I didn't know that there were "sculpted" SA caps and "non-sculpted" ones. This is actually really interesting, I guess I'll need to do more research on keycap profiles. I also see talk about a "Delvin Q" cap, just did a quick search on it. The Delvin Q looks a lot like just standard laptop keys to me.

Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 17:38:31 »
Technically, "sculpted" is a reference to the rows, not the keycaps shapes per se. A keyset can be composed of SAs without having sculpted rows, and that's what you get when they are all R3 for example.

Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 17:42:14 »
SA may have started out uniform, probably for cost reasons, but it is fully sculpted now. It seems to me that making uniform SA sets today makes about as much sense as willingly designing double-shot sets with (the old) R3 Shift molds and the old SHIF T legend. These are manufacturing limitations that simply no longer apply.

The only reason left I can think of to go uniform R3 is to provide maximum layout flexibility. And while (a relatively small number of) international and fringe users certainly appreciate that, it is nevertheless a misuse of the SA family, in my opinion. Keyboards built for typing have had sculpted rows for eons, whether achieved by way of curved backplates, angled switch stems, or sculpted keycaps. I'm pretty sure this has been the case since long before I got into computers (in 1981).

Apple does not make a single contoured keyboard any more. Not one. I guess you could argue they're not meant for typing, though.  :p

Logitech make many uniform boards, as do a more and more manufacturers nowadays. As more people use boards at flatter angles, the angled back contoured caps of old become less needed, although a contoured set is better to type on for sure. SA was developed as a flat set. It's only "become" a ture fully sculptured set now with the completion of the Row 4 Shift molds.

Well, I would argue that the loss of sculpted rows in cheap, modern keyboards is a by-product of cost-cutting measures (and a customer base that just doesn't care). The increase in laptops and tablets further erodes the public's appreciation for sculpted keyboards. I still consider sculpted rows the "optimal norm" for keyboards built for typing, even if they are not popular with the masses.

Offline Oobly

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 10:39:10 »
SA may have started out uniform, probably for cost reasons, but it is fully sculpted now. It seems to me that making uniform SA sets today makes about as much sense as willingly designing double-shot sets with (the old) R3 Shift molds and the old SHIF T legend. These are manufacturing limitations that simply no longer apply.

The only reason left I can think of to go uniform R3 is to provide maximum layout flexibility. And while (a relatively small number of) international and fringe users certainly appreciate that, it is nevertheless a misuse of the SA family, in my opinion. Keyboards built for typing have had sculpted rows for eons, whether achieved by way of curved backplates, angled switch stems, or sculpted keycaps. I'm pretty sure this has been the case since long before I got into computers (in 1981).

Apple does not make a single contoured keyboard any more. Not one. I guess you could argue they're not meant for typing, though.  :p

Logitech make many uniform boards, as do a more and more manufacturers nowadays. As more people use boards at flatter angles, the angled back contoured caps of old become less needed, although a contoured set is better to type on for sure. SA was developed as a flat set. It's only "become" a ture fully sculptured set now with the completion of the Row 4 Shift molds.

Well, I would argue that the loss of sculpted rows in cheap, modern keyboards is a by-product of cost-cutting measures (and a customer base that just doesn't care). The increase in laptops and tablets further erodes the public's appreciation for sculpted keyboards. I still consider sculpted rows the "optimal norm" for keyboards built for typing, even if they are not popular with the masses.

I agree with you on that point, but "flat" profile caps are perfectly acceptable nowadays, perhaps more than ever before, due to how used to them most people are now. I prefer sculptured, but find flat to be usable. In fact, I find all Row 3 SA preferable to DCS and Cherry, due to the lack of "steps" that force you to raise your fingers when switching rows. Sculptured SA is definitely my favourite, though.
Buying more keycaps,
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Offline bcredbottle

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #62 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 10:47:55 »
What it feels like to type on DSA
More

Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 12:09:36 »
I agree with you on that point, but "flat" profile caps are perfectly acceptable nowadays, perhaps more than ever before, due to how used to them most people are now. I prefer sculptured, but find flat to be usable. In fact, I find all Row 3 SA preferable to DCS and Cherry, due to the lack of "steps" that force you to raise your fingers when switching rows. Sculptured SA is definitely my favourite, though.

I need to start using the world sculptured. I've been using sculpted all this time. Doh!

I should point out that I have DSA sets on my two Pok3rs and find them to be acceptible. I enjoy the pumice-like feel of Granite's PBT caps, as a nice contrast with the semi-gloss feel of my SA sets. And the medium height feels somehow appropriate for such a small (almost toylike) keyboard. But I can't help but wish the rows were sculptured.

Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 13:51:17 »
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.

Offline bcredbottle

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #65 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 14:43:18 »
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.

Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

Offline Oobly

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 17:05:14 »
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.

Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

Half a bee, philisophically,
Must ipso facto half not be.
But half a bee has got to be
Vis a vis it's entity.
-d'you see?
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 22:24:55 »
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.

Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.


This is cool, even when I was not able to understand it.


 :p

Offline building_an_ergo

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #68 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 22:34:04 »
I had a hell of a time when I first started to use DSA, but it was the same time I switched from a normal fullsize keyboard to an ergodox, so that had lots to do with it.

I am used to it now and absolutely love it.  I prefer it to normal profiles now that I am used to it.

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 04:10:43 »
It does not have much sense to dress a mechanical keyboard with flat keys, similar to most lap top keyboards available, while you can use a nice profiled set instead. It is kind of an oxymoron, an intrinsic contradiction.

Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

Agreed. I had no idea what they were saying, but I don't know if I would fully agree with you saying that if someone has a mechanical keyboard that there's no use to use flat profiled caps. I think that preference plays a large role in deciding the right keys. I think going with a mechanical keyboard, it's mainly for the travel of the keys compared to a standard rubber dome board.

I do have a potential seller of DSA styled caps from someone's grab bag, so I'll just wait till those arrive before finally deciding if it's for me or not.
This is cool, even when I was not able to understand it.


 :p

Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 09:41:13 »
I had a hell of a time when I first started to use DSA, but it was the same time I switched from a normal fullsize keyboard to an ergodox, so that had lots to do with it.

I am used to it now and absolutely love it.  I prefer it to normal profiles now that I am used to it.


An Ergodox is one the exceptions for flat profiles, where regular sculpted may not be the best option for all users.

Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 11:05:10 »
Yeah, it's kind of like two ergonomics solutions getting in each other's way. I'd be curious to hear from Ergo users who have sculptured SA sets on their boards.

Offline Frizer

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 16:15:52 »
I use a 75% board with DSA for gaming. I find it is nice for creative writing where I'm pausing a lot, but in general any heavy lifting requires a cherry profile.

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 16:33:22 »
I use a 75% board with DSA for gaming. I find it is nice for creative writing where I'm pausing a lot, but in general any heavy lifting requires a cherry profile.

Could you explain what the difference is for you? How the two compare to each other while doing lots of typing.

You said that you game with it, which means that you're using it for probably a couple of hours at a time. Then you also said that "heavy lifting" requires cherry profile, which I'm assuming a lot of typing?

Offline Oobly

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 03:48:38 »
Yeah, it's kind of like two ergonomics solutions getting in each other's way. I'd be curious to hear from Ergo users who have sculptured SA sets on their boards.

I really like them on my Ergo:



I'm using Row 1, 3, 4 on the main character areas. Row 1,3 inverted 1 is even better :) The Carbon set has a fully sculptured ErogoDox layout.

I don't see why someone wouldn't like them on a 'Dox. AFAIK, most ErgoDox kits have been "flat" simply because it allows you to arrange the caps any way you like, not for any comfort or ergonomic reasons.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline davkol

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 07:47:39 »
Yeah, at least the early ErgoDox drops didn't even include distinct home keys (e.g., dished DSA). It was awful.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 07:54:49 »
DSA is too small. Being spherical, there is only one good point to put your finger into. With a cylindrical prophile instead, you have more freedom along one axis.

Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 08:00:13 »
One thing that makes me think I would like the DSA profile over the SA profile is portability. The SA keys look much taller than other profiles. Does it make transporting your keyboards more difficult?

Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 09:37:50 »
That ergo looks interesting, it seems it is your very personal version of an ergo.

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #79 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 11:53:51 »
Yeah, it's kind of like two ergonomics solutions getting in each other's way. I'd be curious to hear from Ergo users who have sculptured SA sets on their boards.

I really like them on my Ergo:

Show Image


I'm using Row 1, 3, 4 on the main character areas. Row 1,3 inverted 1 is even better :) The Carbon set has a fully sculptured ErogoDox layout.

I don't see why someone wouldn't like them on a 'Dox. AFAIK, most ErgoDox kits have been "flat" simply because it allows you to arrange the caps any way you like, not for any comfort or ergonomic reasons.

How long did it take you to make this board, oh and how much did it cost? :P

Right one more question is how long did it take you to get used to that layout?

Offline Oobly

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 12:35:33 »
That ergo looks interesting, it seems it is your very personal version of an ergo.

Yeah, it's kind of like two ergonomics solutions getting in each other's way. I'd be curious to hear from Ergo users who have sculptured SA sets on their boards.

I really like them on my Ergo:

Show Image


I'm using Row 1, 3, 4 on the main character areas. Row 1,3 inverted 1 is even better :) The Carbon set has a fully sculptured ErogoDox layout.

I don't see why someone wouldn't like them on a 'Dox. AFAIK, most ErgoDox kits have been "flat" simply because it allows you to arrange the caps any way you like, not for any comfort or ergonomic reasons.

How long did it take you to make this board, oh and how much did it cost? :P

Right one more question is how long did it take you to get used to that layout?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49721.0

It took a couple of months, designing as I went. I didn't really keep track of the cost, but I got the plate and switches from a Ducky and then used some aluminium plate, a Teensy 2.0, some metal epoxy and hot glue to build it. Also some USB cable and some connectors from an old circuit board I had lying around. Overall I'd say it cost around 140€ or so for all the parts minus keycaps.

The actual character layout is listed in that thread. I got used to the thumb clusters really quickly, but the character layout has taken a bit of time. I'm still a bit faster on a QWERTY board, but the ergo feels nicer to use. I'm sure I'll overtake my QWERTY speed soon, though :D

It's really great for gaming, too.  :thumb:

I'm working on a new design, which should be possible to manufacture in small quantities and if I get that far I'll sell some to interested GH members. I really think the thumb clusters are the best way to manage all modifiers and and layers for a small board.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Frizer

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 17 November 2015, 11:20:39 »
I use a 75% board with DSA for gaming. I find it is nice for creative writing where I'm pausing a lot, but in general any heavy lifting requires a cherry profile.

Could you explain what the difference is for you? How the two compare to each other while doing lots of typing.

You said that you game with it, which means that you're using it for probably a couple of hours at a time. Then you also said that "heavy lifting" requires cherry profile, which I'm assuming a lot of typing?



Gaming: So when you move from "Q" to "1" to "F1" it's a nice smooth movement. This is, however, a very personal feeling.
Creative writing: I don't write prose so I tend to pause a lot, I wouldn't bother to swap out to a Cherry profile just to write a few pages and in fact I do like the DSA feel for this because it's quite "plonk-plonk-plonk"  :rolleyes: It can be terrible for typos though.
Writing: If I have to type for work the I plug in a topre or tactile switch with cherry profile.



Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 17 November 2015, 11:44:51 »
Any key cap is good for typing and, by extension, for any use involving it, name it gaming. However the efficiency for the task may vary, but it is more related with the practice the typist have with a particular key board, including all its elements, key caps, switches, material and its texture and layout. Focus on the key cap type only and making an argument just based on it regarding a typing experience is not a good scientific approach. Some people find rubber domes very good for their use and you can see them typing very efficiently on them, that alone demonstrates that there is no a particular key cap, or even a key board, mechanical or not, that may be the best for certain computing activity involving typing. In the other hand, preferences will be very different for each individual and testimonies shared here cannot be generalized. Some others, find lap top key boards to be very nice to type on, again, it may be a matter of continuous use of them that make their use very friendly.


For the OP, if you want to know how does DSA feel, then do you homework and give it a try and make your mind about it, but you should be aware that the final feeling is a result of more than one factor and that it may be different from some others experiences.

Offline dummytim

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 17 November 2015, 14:29:07 »
Any key cap is good for typing and, by extension, for any use involving it, name it gaming. However the efficiency for the task may vary, but it is more related with the practice the typist have with a particular key board, including all its elements, key caps, switches, material and its texture and layout. Focus on the key cap type only and making an argument just based on it regarding a typing experience is not a good scientific approach. Some people find rubber domes very good for their use and you can see them typing very efficiently on them, that alone demonstrates that there is no a particular key cap, or even a key board, mechanical or not, that may be the best for certain computing activity involving typing. In the other hand, preferences will be very different for each individual and testimonies shared here cannot be generalized. Some others, find lap top key boards to be very nice to type on, again, it may be a matter of continuous use of them that make their use very friendly.


For the OP, if you want to know how does DSA feel, then do you homework and give it a try and make your mind about it, but you should be aware that the final feeling is a result of more than one factor and that it may be different from some others experiences.

Oh I already have a seller lined up for some DSA caps. Can't wait to get them to try :D

It seems like there are many other types of caps to try out so the thread has just kind of moved on towards asking about other keycap opinions.

Offline ideus

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 17 November 2015, 14:48:10 »
Any key cap is good for typing and, by extension, for any use involving it, name it gaming. However the efficiency for the task may vary, but it is more related with the practice the typist have with a particular key board, including all its elements, key caps, switches, material and its texture and layout. Focus on the key cap type only and making an argument just based on it regarding a typing experience is not a good scientific approach. Some people find rubber domes very good for their use and you can see them typing very efficiently on them, that alone demonstrates that there is no a particular key cap, or even a key board, mechanical or not, that may be the best for certain computing activity involving typing. In the other hand, preferences will be very different for each individual and testimonies shared here cannot be generalized. Some others, find lap top key boards to be very nice to type on, again, it may be a matter of continuous use of them that make their use very friendly.


For the OP, if you want to know how does DSA feel, then do you homework and give it a try and make your mind about it, but you should be aware that the final feeling is a result of more than one factor and that it may be different from some others experiences.

Oh I already have a seller lined up for some DSA caps. Can't wait to get them to try :D

It seems like there are many other types of caps to try out so the thread has just kind of moved on towards asking about other keycap opinions.


That's great, you may know first hand if the profile is for you. Good luck.

Offline dan002

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #85 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 09:08:12 »
Referring to DSA, I always thought it was the shape of the key. Only after I swapped out my cherry profile with DSA did I release they have the exact same height on every row.
However, I honestly didn't notice this until I swapped back on my cherry profile after a couple of weeks. Crazy right?
Peace, love and keyboards.

Offline zslane

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 19 November 2015, 12:58:50 »
You'd have to either visit the Signature Plastics webpage devoted to describing their keycap families, or read any one of about a thousand threads on numerous forums where the string "DSA profile" appears, in order to learn that DSA is a single profile, medium-high spherical keycap. Or, failing that, look carefully at any photograph ever taken of a keyboard fitted with DSA keycaps.

Offline hknmng

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 05:26:35 »
I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower. Bought a set of Granite and couldn't get used to them. If you're using ABS OEM profile caps, then the PBT DSA caps will feel more textured.

I agree with this. I've been using OEM profile keyboards and when I tried DSA profile keyboard for the first time yesterday, I straight away felt so uncomfortable typing on it. My fingers just don't rest on the keyboard comfortably and I make more typos using DSA. OEM is more ergonomic and feels more natural for my fingers.

Offline obtuse

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Re: What does DSA feel like?
« Reply #88 on: Thu, 07 March 2019, 07:32:01 »
How does it differ from XDA?

I'll be putting some DSA keys on my next board, since I've recently switched to dvorak for RSI problems. I want legends to be correct and I can't deal with all the various angles all over the board you get from using dvorak keycap layout with sculpted keys. Reading this thread got me a bit worried, but I hope I'll enjoy them enough.