What does DSA feel like?

[dummytim]

Yes, I do realize that there's a search bar. I have used it and was confused with the results I got, so I decided that the best way was to make a thread about it.

I know that a lot of people recently got their "crap bags" and a lot of them came with DSA caps. So I would believe that some of those users have at least tried it out for the first time or something like that. I would like to know what they hype around them are? I was considering purchasing a blank set of DSA PBT caps off PMK, but wasn't sure if I should pull the trigger just yet since shipping to Canada costs a fair bit more.

So any input would help me in my future decision.

[whmeltonjr]

I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower. Bought a set of Granite and couldn't get used to them. If you're using ABS OEM profile caps, then the PBT DSA caps will feel more textured.

[dummytim]

I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower. Bought a set of Granite and couldn't get used to them. If you're using ABS OEM profile caps, then the PBT DSA caps will feel more textured.

Did you need to like change up your finger placements due to the different sizes? They're also much more flatter in their profiles right?

I'm currently typing on the "Midnight" ABS set. I kind of like it, but I'm not sure if it'll shine in the long term due to my hands. I actually have really sweaty hands and I've kind of killed my Ducky Shine 3 keycaps.

I do have some PBT blanks on my Poker 2 and I enjoy those.

[hashbaz]

Like ****e, in my opinion.

[raymogi]

I got attracted to the looks of the DSA Granite so I bought the set.

After using it for a couple minutes though I quickly take it out. The feeling is just not there. Cherry profile all the way.

[whmeltonjr]

You may have seen this, but if not this shows all the profiles. DSA have a spherical top. I didn't have to change the position of my hands or anything, it was just the smaller tops that made me miss more often.

[dummytim]

Looks like from these responses I might be better off buying someones random crap bag of DSA keys and testing the profile out rather than going straight to PMK to buy the PBT ones.

[zslane]

That's probably a good idea. You can't really determine how you will like something based on someone else's preferences. I happen to love spherical keycaps of all kinds and loathe cylindrical tops with the burning passion of a hundred suns. Sphericals feel natural to me and I love how they look. But it may be utterly different for you.

[rowdy]

I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

[dummytim]

I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

What's the difference between SA and DSA besides the like height difference. The tops of the SA caps are still cylindrical right?

[rowdy]

I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

What's the difference between SA and DSA besides the like height difference. The tops of the SA caps are still cylindrical right?

Yes, that's why I find it weird that I like SA but not DSA.

[just66in]

I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

What's the difference between SA and DSA besides the like height difference. The tops of the SA caps are still cylindrical right?

Yes, that's why I find it weird that I like SA but not DSA.

You're not the July one haha I hate DSA but like SA alot as well

[azhdar]

awful

[ghostjuggernaut]

A quick search pulled up these threads.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49485.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44502.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65100.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59133.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49086.0

[dummytim]

A quick search pulled up these threads.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49485.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44502.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65100.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59133.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49086.0

I've actually read most of these before, and a lot of things were just mixed. Seems like the thread pulled a mixed response too. So I guess the only way is to try it myself and maybe post my own opinion.

[davkol]

DSA is spherical, uniform profile, rough (texture) and very tight on stems (at least Cherry MX). It was probably supposed to be used on various industrial keypads (thus tight fit and uniform profile)… I suppose it worked quite well, because you wouldn't touch type on such a thing anyway, while isolated precise keystrokes would be a priority (thus rough texture and spherical keytops).

As an "enthusiast", I very much don't like the tight fit though, because it makes removing keycaps (for cleaning or to be replaced) a PITA. The medium stiffness (compared to thick Cherry or SA) doesn't help the sound/feel of switches either. At last but not least, I'm not a fan of a uniform profile for touch typing.

[njbair]

Like typing on #57 gravel aggregate.

[jerue]

I would go as far to say experiences are different with ABS DSA caps vs PBT

PBT DSA kinda feels like typing on granite (ayy lmao), ABS DSA isn't too bad, the finish is smoother so it might not be as "sensual" to your fingers.

I don't really like either. I LOATHE DSA caps on mx clears, they are stickier than Cinnabons.

SA caps are taller, and heavier due to the plastic. I really like SA on topre switches (Novatouch), can't really think of anything else I think it feels good on, it's too wobbly on most MX switches.

[lolpes]

Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class

[Hypersphere]

DSA presents two problems for me: (1) spherical tops; and (2) flat (non-sculpted) profile. I like the appearance of spherical tops, but I also like the look of a sculpted profile. I have trouble typing on DSA, and it is difficult to tell if this is due to the spherical tops, flat profile, or both.

Another issue is that I much prefer typing on PBT rather than ABS, and it seems that there are technical difficulties with producing PBT caps in a higher sculpted profile such as SA.

My preferred profiles include Topre (and Topre caps are ideally matched to the switches) and "OEM". I prefer OEM profile over Cherry or Leopold because it is high enough to avoid conflicts with stabilizer wires and LEDs, but it is more difficult to find high-quality PBT caps in OEM profile than in Cherry or Leopold profile.

[zslane]

I love the look of Granite and Dolch DSA sets. I like the feel of them too (one is PBT, the other ABS).

However, I've come to regard DSA as only suitable (for me) on my Pok3rs. They get hooked up to my iPad (one Pok3r at work, one Pok3r at home) where I don't do much typing except for forum posts for the most part. Small keyboard with medium profile sphericals. A great combination for me.

But when it comes to all the software coding I do, whether at work or at home, I prefer full ANSI 104 keyboards with fully sculpted SA sets. SAs are smooth and semi-glossy and noticeably heavier than even PBT DSAs, so they feel very different.

I like the variety of sensations that textured, medium-profile (uniform R3) DSAs and smooth, high-profile, sculpted SAs provide.

[QuickDelat]

Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class

Show Image

This, but replace galaxy class with granite. It takes some time to get used to though.

[KHAANNN]

Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class

Show Image

+1

Apart from the legend issues, quality issues etc. they are pretty nice to type on, very comfortable

I like having sculptured keycaps, yet the added comfort and optimal pressing area from DSA's kind of made up for the lack of sculpture

You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme

If anyone is thinking of settling with DSA's for a while, it wouldn't be a bad decision, I'm still using 2 DSA blanks for my thumb-fn buttons with GMK Cherry's, can't beat their comfort yet, tho I really want to beat their comfort, because the crookedness of the keycaps sometimes gets on my nerves

[dummytim]

You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme

What switches were you using that you could feel the switches better?

I currently have a lubed ergo clear board and browns on another board. I could already feel a huge difference, wondering if I would be able to feel more of a difference if I swapped out those keycaps to DSA.

[KHAANNN]

You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme

What switches were you using that you could feel the switches better?

I currently have a lubed ergo clear board and browns on another board. I could already feel a huge difference, wondering if I would be able to feel more of a difference if I swapped out those keycaps to DSA.

lubed tactile clears/grays - a very subjective experience tho

[Oobly]

You can feel the switch better through DSA's too, at least I did, lubed switches were more distinguishable with DSA's, with Cherry keycaps, the difference is not that extreme

What switches were you using that you could feel the switches better?

I currently have a lubed ergo clear board and browns on another board. I could already feel a huge difference, wondering if I would be able to feel more of a difference if I swapped out those keycaps to DSA.

lubed tactile clears/grays - a very subjective experience tho

The main reason for this IMO is the keycap mass. DSA caps are light, so are DCS and most OEM ABS caps. Heavier keycaps tend to dampen / smooth out the feeling from the switch, so you feel the specific differences between switches less. You'll experience the same effect with DCS or other light caps. It also means you feel the "scratchiness" of stock MX more easily with light caps.

The biggest problem I have with DSA caps is the size of the top area is too small and this makes it easy to hit the edge of the top instead of the centre and this feels bad to me and breaks my typing flow. Then the lightness / lack of thickness, then the lack of depth in the "deep dish" homing keys. The biggest pros of DSA are the height and being able to swap caps around for Dvorak / Colemak, etc.

I much prefer the "heft" of heavy caps on lightish springs, it's almost like having properly weighted piano keys instead of light, plastic keys from a Yamaha Portasound. The balance of SA profile caps on lubed 62 ErgoClears or 65g Zealios is just about perfect IMHO.

[KHAANNN]

Interestingly, I compared some spacebars a while ago, GMK/DSA Spacebars were both around 6g, the PBT's are around 7g, if I remember correctly

But GMK definitely feels heavier than DSA

DSA feels clumsy/weak because of the warping, it messes with both cherry and costar stabs, probably cherry more

Can't comment on SA tho, it's obviously heavier, I actually have one around that I can weigh but I'm just too lazy

[keshley]

Another thing to keep in mind; When comparing DSA to SA, while, yes, they are both cylindrical keycaps, DSA are much shallower. I'm talking about the concave area of the keycap, not the keycap height.

I don't like DSA on anything other than small keyboards. TKL and larger, it just doesn't feel all that great IMO. I don't mind it on a 60% though.

If you like scissor switch boards (laptop boards, current apple boards, etc), you'll probably like DSA. But they hug your fingers slightly compared to chiclet keys. Which I like, but not everybody does.

[hKing]

I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower.

This. I bought a set of DSA blanks and couldn't get used to it, too. Made way more typos. Can't recommend them.

[KHAANNN]

I hate DSA caps. The smaller tops were not pleasant to type on. I made more errors when I typed with them, and my typing speed was slower.

This. I bought a set of DSA blanks and couldn't get used to it, too. Made way more typos. Can't recommend them.

You will make more typos with any kind of significant change

My max wpm was roughly the same with DSA's vs others, tho admittedly 5 wpm-ish better with Cherry's

I also attributed all my typos to DSA's during my time with them, I still make similar typos with Cherry's, tho DSA's also had row-mismatch based typos, sculpture's reduce that significantly, currently my main typo is "d"/"s"

[lolpes]

I write a little faster with dsa, because i came from 3 years straight using only a lapdtop keyboard, so it took me a bit to get used to cherry profile, and dsa with a flat profile is more familiar

[dan002]

Referring to the DSA from my keyset, they feel textured and solid. On my 2015 cherry board the stock keys feel rubbery and almost 'sticky'.

The cherry corp. profile is taller then DSA.

DSA in green and Cherry Corp. in black

[davkol]

The cherry corp. profile is taller then DSA.

Except it's not. Only the number/function row has the whole keytop higher than DSA—it's the exact opposite on the home row, and the surrounding rows are sculpted in case of Cherry profile.

[KHAANNN]

Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class :)

Show Image

lo, why is that a 9gag photo? :)

[Zanduby]

Out of the few profiles i've tried and used, it took me the longest to get used to. I have been using a dsa set on my daily driver for about 4 months now and I find it very comfortable and by far my favorite to type with. I do enjoy SA as well, but unless I have a good wrist rest, I have to arc my fingers too much and they get sore after a while. DSA is nice and flat and I personally can type longer on them. Of course this is all subjective and it's always different for everyone.

[ideus]

Most about DSA has be said already.


Just to sum the main "features":


1. Small tops require more precision for touch typing.
2. The flat profile challenges your typing skills a bit more.
3. SP manufactures them with pretty thin walls, that makes them to feel unsubstantial.
4. The finish tends to be rough, PBT will keep it, but ABS will shine while still feeling rough. It may be a weird feeling for some.
5. The finish tends to keep dirt, easier than other cap finishes.
6. Dye sub PBT caps are warped, it is more critical with over one unit long key caps, except the space bar that does not require the dye sub.

[lolpes]

Love the textture and profile of my galaxy class

Show Image

lo, why is that a 9gag photo? :)

It's not :P i used a meme generator ;) maybe the link is tied to 9gag, tough that would be strange since i never uploaded it...

[drewba]

I will admit I picked up a DSA set mostly for looks but after using it I do not regret my purchase. I'm a strong touch typer and only have issues with DSA on the number or F row when I am out of practice (the keyboard with DSA is on a rotation(I feel like that's the nerdiest thing I've ever said in my life)). That particular keyboard has ergo clears which I used to hit my type racer top speed (142 WPM). I'm not implying DSA makes you type faster but it certainly does not slow me down. For me, it just feels like typing on a keyboard full of homing keys, I like it.

I only have two qualms with DSA. First, I agree with Oobly, DSA is just too light & I wish they were more substantial keys. Second, some keys look slightly warped, aren't perfectly flat or have nubs on the rear of the key. The irregularities on the majority of the keys is enough to make me not want to buy another DSA set. Check out all of these inconsistencies:

[dummytim]

I see a few people saying that DSA switches are too light. Would there be a difference in weight with PBT or ABS DSA caps? For some reason I have it in my head that PBT is supposed to be heavier than the ABS ones.

[zslane]

I have small hands and small fingers. Maybe that's why DSA and its "smaller" top surface doesn't pose any problem for me. Is it possible that the folks who have issues with the top surface area have big ol' sausage fingers or something?

The comment about finger angle being wrong with SA surprises me. The whole point of sculpted, high-profile SA keycaps is to put further keys closer to your fingers so you don't have to reach as far. It is why vintage boards had curved backplates and why modern OEM keycaps are sculpted. If a set of sculpted SA keycaps make your fingers ache, then I suspect something else (about the setup) is wrong.

BTW, I don't "feel" the switch more with DSAs. But that may be because I use MX reds. Soft linears don't have any feel to them the way tactile switches do. If you are using tactile switches, then you will always be at the mercy of the keycap to transmit the tactile "bump" to your fingers. Size, thickness, and material will all play a role. Which is a shame because I wouldn't want my choice of keycaps to have that much impact on my experience of the switches.

[dan002]

Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info

[dummytim]

Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info

Very interesting read, thanks for the info.

Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.

[gadzkun]

when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop 

[dummytim]

when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop 

Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?

[gadzkun]

when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop 

Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?

the placement/position/or... my finger feels like typing in laptop. its just feels really flat, i prefer oem.

[dummytim]

when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop 

Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?

the placement/position/or... my finger feels like typing in laptop. its just feels really flat, i prefer oem.

Have you had the opportunity to try out SA caps yet? I'm kind of curious as to how those feel compared to DSA as well.

[rowdy]

when i use DSA keycaps is just like typing on my laptop 

Aren't the switches different though? Do you mean that the feel of the tops of the keycaps feel like your laptop, or the actual typing experience even bottoming out and all feels exactly like it?

the placement/position/or... my finger feels like typing in laptop. its just feels really flat, i prefer oem.

Possibly because DSA keycaps are all the same height, so the keyboard appears flat, like a laptop keyboard.

[Oobly]

Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info

Very interesting read, thanks for the info.

Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.

POM is denser than PBT (but only a little) and they're both denser than ABS (by quite a bit). This is why PBT and POM caps sink in water, but ABS float.

A little comparison of Row 3 DCS and SA ABS doubleshots:





I suspect the DSA caps are very similar to the DCS Row 3 (DCS are thinner walled, but taller), even in PBT. There just isn't enough material to make them "heavy". SA Row 1 are even heavier. Love my SA caps.

Thick PBT Cherry Row 3 (Row "C") are in between, at just over 1g (about 1.2g for my black on black IIRC). Will measure when I have a moment.

[graefeln]

I don't really like DSA, having tried Granite DSA.

But I do like uniform R3 SA (Nuclear Data Green) - go figure.

Pretty much all my keyboards have a sculpted layout though.

Well I am happy to hear this. I wasn't a fan of DSA either, but will be getting my first uniform SA next year when Danger Zone ships; I was a little worried about whether or not I would like the feel. I still think I will prefer sculpted as well though.

[dummytim]

Because I always forget acronyms:
https://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#materials
This link is a compilation of keycap info

Very interesting read, thanks for the info.

Have you ever seen any documentation of key cap weights? Earlier in the thread people were saying something about DSA keys being much lighter, and I mentioned a comparison with ABS and PBT. I do realize that some caps are advertised as thick PBT keycaps, but I'm not sure about how much more those keycaps would weigh compared to their thinner ABS counterparts.

POM is denser than PBT (but only a little) and they're both denser than ABS (by quite a bit). This is why PBT and POM caps sink in water, but ABS float.

A little comparison of Row 3 DCS and SA ABS doubleshots:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I suspect the DSA caps are very similar to the DCS Row 3 (DCS are thinner walled, but taller), even in PBT. There just isn't enough material to make them "heavy". SA Row 1 are even heavier. Love my SA caps.

Thick PBT Cherry Row 3 (Row "C") are in between, at just over 1g (about 1.2g for my black on black IIRC). Will measure when I have a moment.

Wow I did not expect anyone to actually measure the weight of the caps. I also didn't think that the DSA cap would be heavier than a DCS cap.

Thanks for doing that though, really appreciate it.