AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Axios [In Development]

[Thimplum]

Dat price...

And I thought that the previous ~$150 was a good deal for a beta kit! I'll still keep $150 set aside, just in case.

Once I get a beta kit, I'd like to make a daily updated blog on GH of my experience with it.

[hoggy]

That sounds like a good idea. I'll have a go at the same.

[AcidFire]

I don't want to appear too greedy, but I'll happily pay for all three variants.  I'd be surprised if I'm alone in that regard.

Really impressed with the work you've done - very inventive coupled with attention to feedback.

Would you be looking for three complete kits or just enough parts to try each layout? And I'm glad you like the work, I've put a fair amount of time and thought in. And to me, not listening to feedback or having proper testing done by those who want to use this sort of thing is one of the biggest mistakes I could make in this. I could not have come this far without all of the input from you guys and a few others.

Dat price...

And I thought that the previous ~$150 was a good deal for a beta kit! I'll still keep $150 set aside, just in case.

Once I get a beta kit, I'd like to make a daily updated blog on GH of my experience with it.

I've already been offered a spot in the retailer forums for the lasering service, and I'm sure I could set something up there for beta tester blogs. Barring that, I do plan to put up a forum on my site for this sort of thing, if only to provide an avenue for easy feedback/discussion.

[Moosecraft]

In for a split and maybe a 70%, both preassembled because I'm lazy

[fisofo]

No idea if I'm in the beta or not, but either way: At that price I'll seriously consider getting two different kits.

[daerid]

I'm in for the 70% (DERP)

[Thimplum]

[AcidFire]

I'm in for the 70% (DERP)

To be clear, that price isn't the final, just the production cost of the beta units. I'm still targeting for $200.00 for the full kits when they're ready, and less (probably around $160-180) for the straight boards. As much as I'd love to make them cheaper, I do need to make some kind of profit so I can hopefully justify working on them and future additions full time.

[anotherjunkie]

This is great news! I can't wait for these to start rolling off the production line.

I'll also be one that's posting my opinions once I get the boards, beta or otherwise. I'm disabled with significant hand problems (my fingers and thumbs dislocate all the time, more frequently while typing on a standard keyboard), and these keyboards actually look like they have the potential to get me working on the computer again.

I think it's important for my impressions to be out there so that people in a similar position can find this (for themselves) and help move AcidFire's product forward in a new segment of the population. I can't wait to use the board myself, and to post a review of the boards.

[fisofo]

Roger that AcidFire, that of course makes sense!

[Thimplum]

AcidFire: What do you think of the feel of the DSA frosted caps from SP? How close do they feel to standard ABS?

[MOZ]

AcidFire. It would be  great if you could test the hinge mechanism I posted earlier.

[Larken]

certainly wouldn't mind testing more than one layout if I'm in the beta. the regular ergogp would be an interesting comparison to the ergodox and the ergo 70% definitely has caught my interest. from the plate cutouts posted in the thread earlier, am I right to assume that you can reuse the same, main alpha clusters in different acrylic cases to achieve the variants with a few additional modules? Certainly would be good to get just enough parts to at least test out the variants involved, and perhaps get a good gauge of how the modularity works should one want to swap the parts around.

That estimated price for a full kit is just astoundingly low, by the way.

[JPG]

Nice to see the split version will have different size, but do you have any tip to how to choose a size? Based on your hands size?

Can't wait to see this anyway!

[daerid]

To be clear, that price isn't the final, just the production cost of the beta units. I'm still targeting for $200.00 for the full kits when they're ready, and less (probably around $160-180) for the straight boards. As much as I'd love to make them cheaper, I do need to make some kind of profit so I can hopefully justify working on them and future additions full time.

There's absolutely ZERO reason you shouldn't make some sort of profit on this. This project is miles above most others that come up around here, and so far your quality is top-notch. You should be rewarded for your time, effort, and ingenuity. And also profits mean that you can continue to do so!

[Moosecraft]

To be clear, that price isn't the final, just the production cost of the beta units. I'm still targeting for $200.00 for the full kits when they're ready, and less (probably around $160-180) for the straight boards. As much as I'd love to make them cheaper, I do need to make some kind of profit so I can hopefully justify working on them and future additions full time.

There's absolutely ZERO reason you shouldn't make some sort of profit on this. This project is miles above most others that come up around here, and so far your quality is top-notch. You should be rewarded for your time, effort, and ingenuity. And also profits mean that you can continue to do so!

This^

[AcidFire]

AcidFire: What do you think of the feel of the DSA frosted caps from SP? How close do they feel to standard ABS?

I don't have anything working yet that I can test with, but so far they feel very similar to ABS.

Nice to see the split version will have different size, but do you have any tip to how to choose a size? Based on your hands size?
Can't wait to see this anyway!

TBH it's mostly going to be trial & error, this is where I may swallow the cost a bit and anyone who orders the split for beta will get all three sizes to test. From there I can hopefully get some metrics to help people figure out what size suits them.

There's absolutely ZERO reason you shouldn't make some sort of profit on this. This project is miles above most others that come up around here, and so far your quality is top-notch. You should be rewarded for your time, effort, and ingenuity. And also profits mean that you can continue to do so!

Very much appreciate the thought. I would love to be able to do this full time, and I'm working toward that end hopefully. Right now I'm happy with the cost vs price.

AcidFire. It would be  great if you could test the hinge mechanism I posted earlier.

I will get to it, however I'm currently focused on finishing the first three designs. Once I've gotten those out of the way and am waiting for parts for the beta, I'm going to work on the bluetooth modules & 40% parts.

certainly wouldn't mind testing more than one layout if I'm in the beta. the regular ergogp would be an interesting comparison to the ergodox and the ergo 70% definitely has caught my interest. from the plate cutouts posted in the thread earlier, am I right to assume that you can reuse the same, main alpha clusters in different acrylic cases to achieve the variants with a few additional modules? Certainly would be good to get just enough parts to at least test out the variants involved, and perhaps get a good gauge of how the modularity works should one want to swap the parts around.

That estimated price for a full kit is just astoundingly low, by the way.

Do you mean the beta kit price, or the production price? I've found a couple of parts that not only reduce the size of the PCBs, but are also 20% of the existing part. My only issue is that I have to order a minimum of $1000 just in jacks, to have enough to build the beta units. Unfortunately, they'll only let me order a sample of 50, and I need 300~ to do the beta boards. I may have a way around this that I'll be investigating tomorrow.

[Larken]

Do you mean the beta kit price, or the production price? I've found a couple of parts that not only reduce the size of the PCBs, but are also 20% of the existing part. My only issue is that I have to order a minimum of $1000 just in jacks, to have enough to build the beta units. Unfortunately, they'll only let me order a sample of 50, and I need 300~ to do the beta boards. I may have a way around this that I'll be investigating tomorrow.

I was referring to the beta kit prices. Was honestly expecting to have to pay a higher figure, especially seeing as how switches and caps alone, going by massdrop ergodox prices, would run someone between 60 - 80 bucks. A full kit for 110-120 is really.. wow, considering the cost of raw materials, screws, r&d time you spent on this. (definitely not complaining about it though)

The production price of 200 is very attractive too, compared to the current crop of competitors on the market. At 200 for a full kit, it might just be the end of ergodox group buys at massdrop.

Now I'm curious about how you're going to be reducing the pcb size... they already look pretty compact as it is.

[TheSoulhunter]

Interested! Tho I'd prefer surface mount components to be pre-installed, I suck at soldering this stuff ^^;

[vatin]

I'm surely in for one pre-assembled split version.

[AcidFire]

I was referring to the beta kit prices. Was honestly expecting to have to pay a higher figure, especially seeing as how switches and caps alone, going by massdrop ergodox prices, would run someone between 60 - 80 bucks. A full kit for 110-120 is really.. wow, considering the cost of raw materials, screws, r&d time you spent on this. (definitely not complaining about it though)

The production price of 200 is very attractive too, compared to the current crop of competitors on the market. At 200 for a full kit, it might just be the end of ergodox group buys at massdrop.

Now I'm curious about how you're going to be reducing the pcb size... they already look pretty compact as it is.

120 is what I'm shooting for, however the price of switches particularly will definitely have an effect on that. I sat down and did a number of revisions to my pricing sheet last night and I may end up closer to the original 150-160 than I was hoping for. Obviously for those who already have switches or caps or both, it'll be much lower (Currently hovering around the 80 mark.)

Interested! Tho I'd prefer surface mount components to be pre-installed, I suck at soldering this stuff ^^;

Both assembled & unassembled kits will come with all the SMD components pre mounted. The only soldering you'll have to do is installing the switches & backlight LEDs.

[JPG]

^^ means I will have to get myself a soldering station quite soon!

Where do we register?

[AcidFire]

^^ means I will have to get myself a soldering station quite soon!

Where do we register?

If you haven't done so already, you can register here.

On an unrelated note, I've been wondering how people would feel if I eliminated the 1.5x keys completely, including the two vertical ones?

[CommunistWitchDr]

^^ means I will have to get myself a soldering station quite soon!

Where do we register?

If you haven't done so already, you can register here.

On an unrelated note, I've been wondering how people would feel if I eliminated the 1.5x keys completely, including the two vertical ones?

Eliminate or convert to 1x? They're nice, but 1x would probably be just as good. Being gone all together would make for quite the key shortage though.

[AcidFire]

On an unrelated note, I've been wondering how people would feel if I eliminated the 1.5x keys completely, including the two vertical ones?

Eliminate or convert to 1x? They're nice, but 1x would probably be just as good. Being gone all together would make for quite the key shortage though.

Sorry should have been clear, I'm looking at converting them to 1x. This would also turn the two vertical 1.5x into three 1x, making an extra key available for use.

[FiskFisk33]

On an unrelated note, I've been wondering how people would feel if I eliminated the 1.5x keys completely, including the two vertical ones?

Eliminate or convert to 1x? They're nice, but 1x would probably be just as good. Being gone all together would make for quite the key shortage though.

Sorry should have been clear, I'm looking at converting them to 1x. This would also turn the two vertical 1.5x into three 1x, making an extra key available for use.

YES.

[AcidFire]

Aside from lowering the cost of keys and requirements for extra sizes, this also helps to thin out the board as well, which definitely helps with reducing the width of the solid boards for travel. Of course it also reduces the width of the split boards, however there is always the option of using the same size board and offering both, but I think moving away from the 1.5x keys would be a good thing to push for across the board.

[whirm]

Hi everybody! (First post in this forum)

I stumbled upon this thread some weeks ago after discovering the ErgoDox. I was planning on "forking" the design to customize it with a couple of ideas I had.
But then I saw AcidFire's design and it already has everything I was planning to do and then some! Amazing work man!

So here I am, I've already signed up for the beta and I'm hoping Ill be able to help with what I can (I'm a programmer and studied electronics a long time ago).

Cheers!

[Moosecraft]

Do you have any pictures or render of the 70% compact one?
Sry If this question has been answered multiple times but it wasn't in the OP.

[spspencer]

^^ means I will have to get myself a soldering station quite soon!

Where do we register?

If you haven't done so already, you can register here.

On an unrelated note, I've been wondering how people would feel if I eliminated the 1.5x keys completely, including the two vertical ones?

Personally, I like the 1.5 keys. I would sacrifice them for an overall smaller sized board, though.

[Thimplum]

I am for eliminating the 1.5 keys. That way, we can just have 1x and 2x, making new keycap finding a lot easier. And we get a few more keys, so there's that too.

[AcidFire]

Personally, I like the 1.5 keys. I would sacrifice them for an overall smaller sized board, though.

Is there something in particular you like about those keys?

[kurplop]

My experimenting with the ErgoDox has led me to the same conclusion. The 1.5 keys take up extra space unnecessarily. I'd go for more keys or a tighter package.

[spspencer]

Personally, I like the 1.5 keys. I would sacrifice them for an overall smaller sized board, though.

Is there something in particular you like about those keys?

Mostly I like the way they look, and they help me rember the key layout. Sorta gives me boundries, you know? I've been qwerty touch typing for 20 years, and now I'm playing with different layouts, it helps me to use the 1.5 keys as landmarks.

Don't get me wrong, given a choice, I would choose a smaller form-factor over the 1.5 keys.

[vatin]

Yeah 1.5 doesn't have real purpose.

[fisofo]

Agreed, 1.5 have not been terribly useful to me; 1's would work fine.
@spspencer: just get colored key caps!

[AcidFire]

I've got a set of plates designed to test it out, I'll post pics in a bit when I get home. I'm not lasering new cases to match yet until I know this is where I want to go with it for sure, but in all honesty it's probably what I'm going to go with.

[spspencer]

Agreed, 1.5 have not been terribly useful to me; 1's would work fine.
@spspencer: just get colored key caps!

I guess I'm the odd man out; now I gotta get colored key caps! 

What I really want to know is about bluetooth. I know AcidFire has it in the works (Thanks!!) I'm wondering if adding bluetooth will take a lot of changes to the circuit board, or is it more like a plug-n-play option.

[kps]

One additional advantage of 1u keys is that someone wanting custom keycaps from a place like WASD can make use of the number and cursor areas to fill out the main board, and not have to buy a bunch of expensive individual keycaps.

[sordna]

I too like the 1.5 keys. Using an ergodox for some time now, my hand sometimes shifts off place as I touch type (I hardly ever look down) and I can't really tell except if a finger fall on a differently shaped key. On the Kinesis Advantage things are easier since there are fewer keys and the all have different shapes/depths/angles to help with blind placement of the hands.

[sordna]

delete

[Larken]

mm, I kinda like the 1.5 keys for the sides - for shifting. Never really tried it with 1x keys before, but I suppose it's not a big deal if we lose them. Would prefer to keep the option though.

[Loligagger]

I'd prefer 1.5x keys as well, at least on the outside edges of the board (for shift/enter/backspace/etc). It being slightly more expensive as a result would be fine with me.

[TheSoulhunter]

Guess I'd prefer 1.5x keys as well...

[Glod]

i like the 1.5x for many reasons, for one they are like the perfect size for how i use them and then there is the fact if you end up using similar ergodox cap units then i can cycle around keycaps from ergodox i have ordered--i like variety and changing around cap designs.

[agor]

Really interested as well, followed the progress since the beginning and want to say your doing an incredible work. I thought about signing up for the beta, but as I'm in Europe that would be too much hassle I guess.

[FiskFisk33]

Personally I think the keys at the pinky end can be whatever, 1 or 1.5.
though i did like the idea of having four 1u buttons at the index finger end, it did occur to me before while fantasizing layouts and you mentioning it now is like getting my thoughts read.
Anyways I think it would both feel more natural and give more layout possibilities.

[AcidFire]

After testing out the plates with the 1.5x reduced, I have to say I prefer the 1.5 on the outside edges. That being said, I'm also considering a bit of a compromise and reducing them to 1.25x. While this breaks compatibility with the ErgoDox kits, these are also sizes that seem to be more commonly found, particularly in full board kits, and allows for a bit of a size reduction still of the boards. There is also something to be said for the fact that 1.5 are more common in SP's inventory than 1.25, so I think this needs a bit more research.

Whatever I end up deciding for the sides, I am going to change the two vertical 1.5x to three 1x as I see no point to them being 1.5x and having the extra key could definitely be useful.

[Thimplum]

I was just thinking, it might be a good idea to keep the edge keys bigger than the rest of the keys. I now remember how I hate tiny shift keys.

[sordna]

After testing out the plates with the 1.5x reduced, I have to say I prefer the 1.5 on the outside edges. That being said, I'm also considering a bit of a compromise and reducing them to 1.25x. While this breaks compatibility with the ErgoDox kits, these are also sizes that seem to be more commonly found, particularly in full board kits, and allows for a bit of a size reduction still of the boards. There is also something to be said for the fact that 1.5 are more common in SP's inventory than 1.25, so I think this needs a bit more research.

Whatever I end up deciding for the sides, I am going to change the two vertical 1.5x to three 1x as I see no point to them being 1.5x and having the extra key could definitely be useful.

Kinesis Advantage uses 1.25, that size works too.