[GB] HSA White on Black - Beige on Brown

[Lyle88]

Just received a new update on this.

JTK had some issues with the stems of the key caps, and are reworking the tooling slightly.

This obviously will cause another delay, but in the end it will be worthwhile.

Current estimate is late August - September for completion.

Hate to hear that. Is there anyway I can pay in advance for an 1 of the extra HSA sets now?


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I have no association with the GB runner but in my experience, GB runners have not sold extras before they make them broadly available

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[Kerasan]

any news? ETA for shipping?

[Lyle88]

any news? ETA for shipping?

I've had a dig around on the discord server and can't see anything since the update about stem problems

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[Kerasan]

I see, thank you so much.

[dvorcol]

Just received a new update on this.

JTK had some issues with the stems of the key caps, and are reworking the tooling slightly.

This obviously will cause another delay, but in the end it will be worthwhile.

Current estimate is late August - September for completion.

Hate to hear that. Is there anyway I can pay in advance for an 1 of the extra HSA sets now?


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I have no association with the GB runner but in my experience, GB runners have not sold extras before they make them broadly available

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I know for three sets - GMK Sandstorm, GMK Metaverse, and GMK Frost Witch - SwitchMod opened a purchase window after the GB ended but before production finished.  They call it pre-production.  Not sure if others have done anything similar.

[Lyle88]

Just received a new update on this.

JTK had some issues with the stems of the key caps, and are reworking the tooling slightly.

This obviously will cause another delay, but in the end it will be worthwhile.

Current estimate is late August - September for completion.

Hate to hear that. Is there anyway I can pay in advance for an 1 of the extra HSA sets now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have no association with the GB runner but in my experience, GB runners have not sold extras before they make them broadly available

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

I know for three sets - GMK Sandstorm, GMK Metaverse, and GMK Frost Witch - SwitchMod opened a purchase window after the GB ended but before production finished.  They call it pre-production.  Not sure if others have done anything similar.

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This is pretty standard across vendors. What I think William was asking was: can he purchase a kit from the extras before they are made available to everyone - which I believe is no.

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[Jhambone9160]

We still looking at these shipping from JTK by end of August?

[Lyle88]

We still looking at these shipping from JTK by end of August?

I asked JTK for an update a while back and  they said no timeline as of yet due to the tooling being redone. They found that there were issues with the stems on the current tooling. Just have to wait to hear when the fix has been completed and tested

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[Jhambone9160]

Mike at novelkeys seems to be in communication with JTK also. His website indicates shipping end of August, just curious if that figure is still accurate.

[Lyle88]

Mike at novelkeys seems to be in communication with JTK also. His website indicates shipping end of August, just curious if that figure is still accurate.

I can't speak for NK but going on the response JTK gave me on aug 5 I doubt it. Here's a screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/gzzIhUr

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[dabbaranks]

Mike at novelkeys seems to be in communication with JTK also. His website indicates shipping end of August, just curious if that figure is still accurate.

I can't speak for NK but going on the response JTK gave me on aug 5 I doubt it. Here's a screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/gzzIhUr

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Appreciate the update for us here!

[Techichi]

Can @necromanx give an update? This ran almost a year ago. I think an update here would be fair.

[Lyle88]

Can @necromanx give an update? This ran almost a year ago. I think an update here would be fair.

It would be nice to get an official update, but I bet the answer will be something along the lines of "refining the legends, will update when they are ready". The initial timeline was never realistic - just look at susuwatari, that was a new double shot sculpt and it was in development forever.

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[Lyle88]

Can @necromanx give an update? This ran almost a year ago. I think an update here would be fair.

I actually just had a look in the JTK discord channel and on the 9th sept there is an update that confirms what I suggest in my last reply: https://imgur.com/a/t0av79l

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[Techichi]

Can @necromanx give an update? This ran almost a year ago. I think an update here would be fair.

I actually just had a look in the JTK discord channel and on the 9th sept there is an update that confirms what I suggest in my last reply: https://imgur.com/a/t0av79l

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Thanks Lyle, I appreciate it.

[Kerasan]

Can @necromanx give an update? This ran almost a year ago. I think an update here would be fair.

I actually just had a look in the JTK discord channel and on the 9th sept there is an update that confirms what I suggest in my last reply: https://imgur.com/a/t0av79l

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WHAT???

[mgsickler]

Trying to get a solid update here as well. From what was said above and the info I got is that the molds are still being tuned. I would estimate we are looking at December-January. If I get more concrete info I will update.

[Damage]

I guess no more concrete info has become available in the month since the last post?

This is such a strange group buy, with zero communication from the GB runners. Meanwhile, JTK has opened a Discord and has channels with updates for no less than nine keysets in various stages of IC and GB. Nothing on there at all about HSA, as far as I can tell. Huh.

[pixelpusher]

I guess no more concrete info has become available in the month since the last post?

This is such a strange group buy, with zero communication from the GB runners. Meanwhile, JTK has opened a Discord and has channels with updates for no less than nine keysets in various stages of IC and GB. Nothing on there at all about HSA, as far as I can tell. Huh.

Late September JTK discord said:



So yes, they are still working on the molds it seems.

[Lyle88]

I guess no more concrete info has become available in the month since the last post?

This is such a strange group buy, with zero communication from the GB runners. Meanwhile, JTK has opened a Discord and has channels with updates for no less than nine keysets in various stages of IC and GB. Nothing on there at all about HSA, as far as I can tell. Huh.

Late September JTK discord said:

(Attachment Link)

So yes, they are still working on the molds it seems.

Nu-sculpt tings

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[raptorex1212]

Beautiful!! I really like the beige One!!

[rpiguy9907]

Will extras drop soon? Want this for Christmas!

[Lyle88]

Will extras drop soon? Want this for Christmas!

Not likely, they haven't finished developing the moulds yet. Then they need to manufacture the keys and ship out the GB orders.

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[King4477]

Looks like I ordered this on November 3, 2019, about a year ago, and they haven’t even figured out the molds yet. And other than vague, non-committal notes on his discord there’s no communication on it. That’s certainly a great way to lose the confidence of your buyers, which I assume is what they’re going for at this point.

[Lyle88]

Looks like I ordered this on November 3, 2019, about a year ago, and they haven’t even figured out the molds yet. And other than vague, non-committal notes on his discord there’s no communication on it. That’s certainly a great way to lose the confidence of your buyers, which I assume is what they’re going for at this point.

For people who were expecting the original timeline to be somewhat accurate it's disappointing yes but if you compare this to other first runs for new sculpts, it seems to be pretty standard. Take doubles shot mt3 for example (susuwatari), that was in dev forever

[Techichi]

Covid did slow things down as well. I'm not too hung up on the time, just the lack of communication. They have tons of other products they're talking about. I think they should be letting us know how things are going on this particular set.

[mgsickler]

Just as a heads up, I have reached out to several people for an update. Hope to hear back soon.

Really sorry for any delay here!

[rockydbull]

Just as a heads up, I have reached out to several people for an update. Hope to hear back soon.

Really sorry for any delay here!

Really appreciate you doing the leg work on this. I wish Dixie was this responsive for the BoB version.

[Lyle88]

Just as a heads up, I have reached out to several people for an update. Hope to hear back soon.

Really sorry for any delay here!

Really appreciate you doing the leg work on this. I wish Dixie was this responsive for the BoB version.

Just so you are aware, both kits are being held up for the same reason. There isn't really any need for both NK and Dixie to follow up. JTK are refining the moulds they use to produce the keycaps. Once they are ready, both WoB and BoB can start production (or maybe one then the other, depending on what JTK decide to do)

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[mgsickler]

Got some unfortunate news. There is no update in regards to timeline. Molds are still being worked on and perfected.

I am truly sorry for this delay, and it really wasn't something that we were informed of when we ran this set. I think the wait will be worth it, but again I completely understand the frustration here.

[King4477]

Got some unfortunate news. There is no update in regards to timeline. Molds are still being worked on and perfected.

I am truly sorry for this delay, and it really wasn't something that we were informed of when we ran this set. I think the wait will be worth it, but again I completely understand the frustration here.

Thanks for the info and your hard work generally. You are one of the few vendors that I put my confidence in.

[Techichi]

Got some unfortunate news. There is no update in regards to timeline. Molds are still being worked on and perfected.

I am truly sorry for this delay, and it really wasn't something that we were informed of when we ran this set. I think the wait will be worth it, but again I completely understand the frustration here.

Thanks for the update!

[rockydbull]

Just as a heads up, I have reached out to several people for an update. Hope to hear back soon.

Really sorry for any delay here!

Really appreciate you doing the leg work on this. I wish Dixie was this responsive for the BoB version.

Just so you are aware, both kits are being held up for the same reason. There isn't really any need for both NK and Dixie to follow up. JTK are refining the moulds they use to produce the keycaps. Once they are ready, both WoB and BoB can start production (or maybe one then the other, depending on what JTK decide to do)

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I appreciate that both NK and Dixie don't need to follow up, but I have gotten zero communication from Dixie (they don't even mention the set in their newsletters) and when I reached out they didn't direct me to NK but to a european vendor and said Dixie was only a proxy, so its not like they are trading off between NK of who follows up with JTK. I am not upset with Dixie for the delay but for failing to communicate.

[necromanx]

Hi Everyone.

I want to clarify the current issues a little bit. 
JTK has been hit by the corrona virus in various ways that severly impacted their production.
Their material supplier (plastics) went bankrupt during the pandemic.  They had to source another supplier, test their quality, compare to others.  This took quite some time and hindered pretty much all JTK projects.

Besides that their main engineer who has been improving the molds also left JTK and they had to redo a lot of work because the work that was left behind on HSA was simply not up to expectations.

In terms of delivery expectations.  As NK mentioned before they are still working on perfecting the molds and are currently running sample tests.  Once those tests are completed they will move into production.  Without those tests completed they do not want to set any random expectation.

A lot of love and passion went into this project and everyone involved wants to see perfect keycaps so I am certain the extra time on this project will be worth the wait.

[JT Keycaps]

I'm sorry to bring you so much trouble, because 2020 is a very difficult year for us. First of all, the global virus has led to the shutdown of our factory on a large scale. In addition, the material manufacturers we have cooperated with for many years have not survived this disaster, which leads to the closure of the company. As a result, we have to replace the material manufacturers, which will give us JTK CA set production (JTK vostok).There are many unknown problems and troubles.

With regard to HSA, the problem we are facing is more complicated. At the end of 2019, the old engineer in charge of the HSA project resigned and left. In addition, due to the long-term vacancy caused by the epidemic situation, we did not have any engineers to take over in time. Although we searched for the latest engineers after the resumption of work, because of the high complexity of the project, we conducted the following tests At present, HSA is still in the modification and testing stage.

As compensation (although we know that this compensation can not make up for the customer's waiting loss, but we can only rely on such measures to comfort customers at present), each set of HSA orders will receive the following products:

1，JTK HSA CMYW set
2, JTK CA novelties set(As a conservative plan, we dont want do HSA novetlies so far)

The implementation and distribution of the compensation plan will be communicated and discussed with the vendors  to determine that after all the projects are completed, the compensation will be distributed to each customer

[Lyle88]

I'm sorry to bring you so much trouble, because 2020 is a very difficult year for us. First of all, the global virus has led to the shutdown of our factory on a large scale. In addition, the material manufacturers we have cooperated with for many years have not survived this disaster, which leads to the closure of the company. As a result, we have to replace the material manufacturers, which will give us JTK CA set production (JTK vostok).There are many unknown problems and troubles.

With regard to HSA, the problem we are facing is more complicated. At the end of 2019, the old engineer in charge of the HSA project resigned and left. In addition, due to the long-term vacancy caused by the epidemic situation, we did not have any engineers to take over in time. Although we searched for the latest engineers after the resumption of work, because of the high complexity of the project, we conducted the following tests At present, HSA is still in the modification and testing stage.

As compensation (although we know that this compensation can not make up for the customer's waiting loss, but we can only rely on such measures to comfort customers at present), each set of HSA orders will receive the following products:

1，JTK HSA CMYW set
2, JTK CA novelties set(As a conservative plan, we dont want do HSA novetlies so far)

The implementation and distribution of the compensation plan will be communicated and discussed with the vendors  to determine that after all the projects are completed, the compensation will be distributed to each customer

That's unfortunate I hope things start to get better for you and the business.
Do you have any rough timeframe for starting or finishing production? Q1 2021? Or later?

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[Techichi]

I'm sorry to bring you so much trouble, because 2020 is a very difficult year for us. First of all, the global virus has led to the shutdown of our factory on a large scale. In addition, the material manufacturers we have cooperated with for many years have not survived this disaster, which leads to the closure of the company. As a result, we have to replace the material manufacturers, which will give us JTK CA set production (JTK vostok).There are many unknown problems and troubles.

With regard to HSA, the problem we are facing is more complicated. At the end of 2019, the old engineer in charge of the HSA project resigned and left. In addition, due to the long-term vacancy caused by the epidemic situation, we did not have any engineers to take over in time. Although we searched for the latest engineers after the resumption of work, because of the high complexity of the project, we conducted the following tests At present, HSA is still in the modification and testing stage.

As compensation (although we know that this compensation can not make up for the customer's waiting loss, but we can only rely on such measures to comfort customers at present), each set of HSA orders will receive the following products:

1，JTK HSA CMYW set
2, JTK CA novelties set(As a conservative plan, we dont want do HSA novetlies so far)

The implementation and distribution of the compensation plan will be communicated and discussed with the vendors  to determine that after all the projects are completed, the compensation will be distributed to each customer

Thanks for chiming in!

Not to sound ungrateful...but I'm not sure I understand the "compensation." The novelties to a different set? IMO, that would be unnecessary and you'd just be out some keycaps. Unless I'm misunderstanding what's being said here. To be honest, I'm not in need of any compensation. I understand stuff happens. I just ask that you continue to keep us posted.

Just to throw out an idea: maybe you could give a discount on a future set to those who ordered HSA as compensation?

[Lyle88]

I'm sorry to bring you so much trouble, because 2020 is a very difficult year for us. First of all, the global virus has led to the shutdown of our factory on a large scale. In addition, the material manufacturers we have cooperated with for many years have not survived this disaster, which leads to the closure of the company. As a result, we have to replace the material manufacturers, which will give us JTK CA set production (JTK vostok).There are many unknown problems and troubles.

With regard to HSA, the problem we are facing is more complicated. At the end of 2019, the old engineer in charge of the HSA project resigned and left. In addition, due to the long-term vacancy caused by the epidemic situation, we did not have any engineers to take over in time. Although we searched for the latest engineers after the resumption of work, because of the high complexity of the project, we conducted the following tests At present, HSA is still in the modification and testing stage.

As compensation (although we know that this compensation can not make up for the customer's waiting loss, but we can only rely on such measures to comfort customers at present), each set of HSA orders will receive the following products:

1，JTK HSA CMYW set
2, JTK CA novelties set(As a conservative plan, we dont want do HSA novetlies so far)

The implementation and distribution of the compensation plan will be communicated and discussed with the vendors  to determine that after all the projects are completed, the compensation will be distributed to each customer

Thanks for chiming in!

Not to sound ungrateful...but I'm not sure I understand the "compensation." The novelties to a different set? IMO, that would be unnecessary and you'd just be out some keycaps. Unless I'm misunderstanding what's being said here. To be honest, I'm not in need of any compensation. I understand stuff happens. I just ask that you continue to keep us posted.

Just to throw out an idea: maybe you could give a discount on a future set to those who ordered HSA as compensation?

I agree but I think administering a discount when these were sold through vendors will be difficult.

I'm not a fan of cmyw kits, and don't need a JTK CA novelties kit.

I would however really like some dark red accent keys. Maybe JTK can post a form to collect preference of additional accent keys (enter/space/ESC) and include those?
- one colour for the WoB kits and a different colour for the BoB kits?

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[dabbaranks]

To be frank, not having the tooling for the molds finalized at this stage should be enough to refund your customers.

[rpiguy9907]

Honestly Chinese New Years is just around the corner and the hobby will grind to a halt. I don't expect these will surface until late summer of 2021 if at all.

Sadly, you will only screw the proxies if you try to get a refund through PayPal/Credit Card chargeback, but that may be the only recourse for people who do not risk these never showing up.

[Jhambone9160]

My sympathy for vendors is waning. To some extent, it is the vendors responsibility to do due diligence and evaluate risk before attaching their name to a gb. What really made me see how much money motivates is when sets are continued to be sponsored by vendors from troubled manufacturers, such as JTK and keyreative. It seems like there is some logic in halting in accepting more group buys from troubled manufactors until they can demonstrate that they will fulfill their prior obligations.

[tex_live_utility]

My sympathy for vendors is waning. To some extent, it is the vendors responsibility to do due diligence and evaluate risk before attaching their name to a gb. What really made me see how much money motivates is when sets are continued to be sponsored by vendors from troubled manufacturers, such as JTK and keyreative. It seems like there is some logic in halting in accepting more group buys from troubled manufactors until they can demonstrate that they will fulfill their prior obligations.

FWIW both JTK and Keyreative have figured out their ****... eventually. DSA/KAM Starry Night R2 took like 2 years to start shipping, and ZFrontier almost totally disappeared from the community during that time. But they did eventually ship, and the finished product was very good (arguably exceeding expectations, depending on your taste in keycaps).

It would be nice if I could get a refund on some keycaps I will no longer want in 2 years (see also: MT3 Suswatari). But I also understand that not every vendor is Drop with the ability to arbitrarily issue refunds.

However, there is one big argument in favor of a wide-scale cancellation & refund: the tooling has not been made, therefore the majority of the project cost has not been incurred. I would much rather the whole thing be cancelled and refunded NOW, than to wait 6 months until all the money has been spent and some other problem arises and then everyone is ****ed.

Personally I would be willing to accept a small loss and get $60 refunded on my keyset now, than to wait 3 years and/or never get keycaps and no refund at all.

[King4477]

I appreciate Mike’s weighing in on this earlier. He’s always seem to do right by me and by this community.

I can’t same the same for the others involved, however. So, regardless of the outcome here, the lack of consideration for customers shown by JTK and Dixie will at the very least give me considerable pause if I ever consider ordering from those two again.

[Ja3_420]

[Jhambone9160]

I hear you don't have to fulfill a group buy if all the participants are dead.

[Lyle88]

Any update on how the moulds are going?

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[mindsound]

I am ok with an extended wait, given global circumstances, the nature of our hobby, and the specific setbacks encountered by JTK. That said, it would be interesting to hear whether we might receive these in the Year of our Lord 2021. "No" is a fine answer.

[Lyle88]

I am ok with an extended wait, given global circumstances, the nature of our hobby, and the specific setbacks encountered by JTK. That said, it would be interesting to hear whether we might receive these in the Year of our Lord 2021. "No" is a fine answer.

Pretty sure they're still aiming for q2 2021. Whether that will happen or not I don't know

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[Jhambone9160]

I see very few if any vendors are running more JTK sets...that is great. I love to see people using the power of their wallet.

Probably not good news for this set though. Is JTK pretty much out of business or nah?

[tex_live_utility]

I am ok with an extended wait, given global circumstances, the nature of our hobby, and the specific setbacks encountered by JTK. That said, it would be interesting to hear whether we might receive these in the Year of our Lord 2021. "No" is a fine answer.

Pretty sure they're still aiming for q2 2021. Whether that will happen or not I don't know

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Do they even have molds? Last we heard, the tooling design hadn't even been finished, let alone setting up for production in the next few months.