\ and ` key color

[TopreFan333]

When designing a set of keycaps with different colors, why would you ever make the |\ key and the ~` key the same color as the modifiers and special keys like shift, return, ctrl, etc? They're not special keys and theyr'e not modifiers. They belong to the same category as keys which, you know, type characters -- so they should be the same color as the letters and numbers.

I didn't notice, but just got my Eve set in the mail and realize whoever designed it made a kind of stupid, arbitrary decision to color those keys wrong. Bummer.

[CPTBadAss]

People like it to look symmetrical. Some buys will offer both colorways so you can choose but it's cheaper to offer just one colorway.

[jdcarpe]

When designing a set of keycaps with different colors, why would you ever make the |\ key and the ~` key the same color as the modifiers and special keys like shift, return, ctrl, etc? They're not special keys and theyr'e not modifiers. They belong to the same category as keys which, you know, type characters -- so they should be the same color as the letters and numbers.

I didn't notice, but just got my Eve set in the mail and realize whoever designed it made a kind of stupid, arbitrary decision to color those keys wrong. Bummer.

Exactly. People who do it that way, like people who flip their spacebars, are doing it wrong.

[nubbinator]

People like it to look symmetrical. Some buys will offer both colorways so you can choose but it's cheaper to offer just one colorway.

Exactly what you said.  I like symmetry a lot more than the look of the "proper" sets, especially since I usually use 60%.

If we're going to go off on symmetry though, we can also ask why do some sets make the F1-F4 and F9-F12 keys the same color as the Alphas and why do some keep all F-row caps the same colors as the mods?  Why is even Cherry inconsistent on this front?  If caps that are in the same category have to match, why is it okay for function rows to vary so much?

[TopreFan333]

People like it to look symmetrical. Some buys will offer both colorways so you can choose but it's cheaper to offer just one colorway.

Yeah, but "looks symmetrical" is a very weak reason to break the logic of "these colored keys type characters" and "these colored keys are modifiers".

This is just wrong. If people want an art piece they should design sculptures, not input devices.

[CPTBadAss]

And you're welcome to your opinion. That's usually the reasoning though. FWIW, I agree. But I've rocked sets both ways.

[nubbinator]

Yeah, but "looks symmetrical" is a very weak reason to break the logic of "these colored keys type characters" and "these colored keys are modifiers".

This is just wrong. If people want an art piece they should design sculptures, not input devices.

Aesthetics is a strong reason.  Just because something logically works better a certain way (and let's be frank, colors on caps don't affect function), doesn't mean that it's the most aesthetically pleasing.  Apple has made themselves the monolith they are by following that very mindset.

And you failed to address my comments on the function row since apparently color is such a huge issue.  I'll post it again:

If we're going to go off on symmetry though, we can also ask why do some sets make the F1-F4 and F9-F12 keys the same color as the Alphas and why do some keep all F-row caps the same colors as the mods?  Why is even Cherry inconsistent on this front?  If caps that are in the same category have to match, why is it okay for function rows to vary so much?

And on that note, some even older sets even went so far as to color delete and backspace a totally different color.  Those caps were distinct because their function was different than the modifier keys.  Some colored arrow keys different colors.  And, technically, Backspace, Tab, and many other caps that we call modifier keys aren't modifiers.  They do not modify how other keys behave.

 

[baldgye]

When designing a set of keycaps with different colors, why would you ever make the |\ key and the ~` key the same color as the modifiers and special keys like shift, return, ctrl, etc? They're not special keys and theyr'e not modifiers. They belong to the same category as keys which, you know, type characters -- so they should be the same color as the letters and numbers.

I didn't notice, but just got my Eve set in the mail and realize whoever designed it made a kind of stupid, arbitrary decision to color those keys wrong. Bummer.

Exactly. People who do it that way, like people who flip their spacebars, are doing it wrong.

Flipping spacebars don't affect anyone but the person flipping tho

[Vibex]

I prefer the symmetrical look on 60% boards and anything smaller. It just makes them look cleaner. On larger boards I prefer the properly coloured keys.

[Battou62]

Just stop and ask yourself "What would Cherry do?".

[fohat.digs]

I have ordered `~ and \| in pebble color from Unicomp a couple of times.

Big improvement, except that the legends are printed differently and the pipe is an unbroken line.

[mashby]

As someone who types on a 60% with a symmetry color way and a flipped spacebar, I guess that makes me "wrong" two-times over.  )

I'm happy that most Group Buys are now including both color sets for these keys, but the fact that the Eve set you bought only had the modifier color options seems very wrong to me.

[TopreFan333]

Aesthetics is a strong reason.  Just because something logically works better a certain way (and let's be frank, colors on caps don't affect function), doesn't mean that it's the most aesthetically pleasing.  Apple has made themselves the monolith they are by following that very mindset.

No. Apple has made themselves the monolith they are by form following function and by establishing a clear and consistent visual vocabulary. Grouping by color a key that types characters with the keys that don't type characters breaks the logic of why they're differently colored. Arbitrary aesthetics is just decoration. Decoration is fine, but again, we're talking about a functional device here, not a sculpture.

And you failed to address my comments on the function row since apparently color is such a huge issue.

"Failed to address"? Sorry, I'm not under any obligation to address your comments.   But since you insist: yes, I agree with you. If you're going off a strict color/function system, probably F keys should be grouped with the other non-lettered keys. The alternating color (4 one color/4 another color) that a lot of keyboards have feels kind of arbitrary too.

And on that note, some even older sets even went so far as to color delete and backspace a totally different color.  Those caps were distinct because their function was different than the modifier keys.  Some colored arrow keys different colors.  And, technically, Backspace, Tab, and many other caps that we call modifier keys aren't modifiers.  They do not modify how other keys behave.

Sure, that's fine and makes sense, and your distinction between modifiers and other special function keys is quite valid as well. But see how there's a logic and a system to them being colored? I don't have an objection to coloring keys differently for different categories -- I have a problem with taking two keys that clearly belong to one category and grouping them by color with the wrong keys for a totally arbitrary reasons. And I *really* object to buying a key set that doesn't at least provide alternates so the correct choice can be made.

[nubbinator]

I'm not going to engage most the response even though I don't completely agree since I think your last sentence sums it up and is something we can agree on.

And I *really* object to buying a key set that doesn't at least provide alternates so the correct choice can be made.

While I have an issue with the use of the word correct here since it implies there is one correct way of doing it, I do agree with the sentiment.  I think all sets should include traditional and symmetry keys since it's all of two caps and is something a decent number of people care about.

[SpAmRaY]

I didn't even know what an eve key set was but I found it here http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/eve/

[ideus]

What is the point of this debate. You guys have explained your point of view on symmetry and the guy is keeping his based on function. You both can choose whatever set that pleased you either way.


I also prefer the symmetry, and for some keys the distinction by color as for example the enter key, sometimes also the Esc key, I also use an inverted space bar and function key in my Poker. But my worst sin is combining materials and profiles, Argggh! so you can hit me with rocks.  )

[Nai_Calus]

Both groups are wrong, all the keys should be the same colour. 

Kidding aside, I kind of prefer the look of symmetry. Both ` and \ can die in fires anyway so they might as well look good. It's not like the coding of colours serves any purpose anyway, since I presume most of us don't ever look at our keyboards when we type.

In fact I'm going to go full heresy here: Not only should the ` key match the modifiers, the 1 key should too to match the shape of backspace. You may bring out the pitchforks.

(I have a keyboard that's currently using an upside-down right shift key as a spacebar. Does this make me a terrible person?)

[ideus]

BTW: If the OP referred to the eve, its main render has the colors as he states.

[00zeRO]

By now it's an industry standard:



Granted that is a redo of this original color scheme:

[ideus]

By now it's an industry standard:

Show Image

Granted that is a redo of this original color scheme:

Show Image

However, the discussion here is about custom made key sets at GBs, that are not standard, usually.

[00zeRO]

By now it's an industry standard:

Show Image

Granted that is a redo of this original color scheme:

Show Image

However, the discussion here is about custom made key sets at GBs, that are not standard, usually.

That is true, but my point is that it has become a convention because of the industry. Hence, why many tailor their GB's to fit the color mold (pardon teh pun)

[TopreFan333]

BTW: If the OP referred to the eve, its main render has the colors as he states.

Oh man, I forgot to go back and look at that rendering -- just assumed I'd missed it when I ordered.

The set I got doesn't match the render in that those keys are in the darker color

[TopreFan333]

Kidding aside, I kind of prefer the look of symmetry. Both ` and \ can die in fires anyway so they might as well look good. It's not like the coding of colours serves any purpose anyway, since I presume most of us don't ever look at our keyboards when we type.

Sorry, but it's idiotic to put ALMOST all the keys that type characters in the same color, but then randomly make two of them the same color as the keys that do not type characters. Makes zero sense.   

Sure, this is all pretty minor in the grand scheme of things -- but then again, I paid $60 for keys for a keyboard, they sure as hell should follow some logic and they REALLY should match the rendering.

[ideus]

By now it's an industry standard:

Show Image

Granted that is a redo of this original color scheme:

Show Image

However, the discussion here is about custom made key sets at GBs, that are not standard, usually.

That is true, but my point is that it has become a convention because of the industry. Hence, why many tailor their GB's to fit the color mold (pardon teh pun)

I cannot explain the logic of the entire community, but the fact is many GBs have options that are not standard, and some prefer the symmetry while others prefer the other way around. I think the OP can ask the designer and the manufacturer about the inconsistency between the main render of the set he bought and the actual manufactured parts.

My personal point of view is that both schemes look nice, and as some others have pointed is personal preference. In small boards though the symmetry makes more sense, but anyway we are not suppose to look at the keycaps to touch type, thus, is only aesthetics.

[jacobolus]

Easy solution: just make all the \ and ` keys purple, irrespective of the other keycap colors.

[TopreFan333]

My last post on this: look at the black and white keys of a piano. They have different functions and are colored accordingly. Would you make some of the white ones black for "symmetry"? No, because that would make no sense.

[hwood34]

When designing a set of keycaps with different colors, why would you ever make the |\ key and the ~` key the same color as the modifiers and special keys like shift, return, ctrl, etc? They're not special keys and theyr'e not modifiers. They belong to the same category as keys which, you know, type characters -- so they should be the same color as the letters and numbers.

I didn't notice, but just got my Eve set in the mail and realize whoever designed it made a kind of stupid, arbitrary decision to color those keys wrong. Bummer.

like people who flip their spacebars, are doing it wrong.

[isaske]

Easy solution: just make all the \ and ` keys purple, irrespective of the other keycap colors.

hahahah n1.

[ideus]

... My last post on this.  )

[jacobolus]

My last post on this: look at the black and white keys of a piano. They have different functions and are colored accordingly. Would you make some of the white ones black for "symmetry"? No, because that would make no sense.

Actually, the black and white keys on the piano have the same function, which is to play specific musical notes. Nearly all pianos are equal tempered, which means that every octave is split into 12 exactly evenly spaced pitches, and there’s no difference between two same-number-of-key intervals anywhere on the piano. [Historically, instruments were not always equal tempered, so the black keys were more meaningful.] These days the primary purpose the colors and layout serves is to give the pianist a point of reference. You could easily do the same thing by coloring every C and E key orange, and every G key purple, and leaving all the sharps and flats white, if you wanted. (It would look kind of silly though.)

There are alternative (in principle better, though the existing repertoire is designed for standard pianos so “better” is subjective) keyboard designs which don’t make a distinction in layout between white and black keys, for example the Jankó keyboard. (The keys still get colored white or black to help people used to standard pianos, but music can be trivially transposed from one key to another just by shifting a whole song left or right by a few keys.) http://squeezehead.com/uniform-keyboard/

[Oobly]

Just 'cos IBM did it that way with ONE of their designs which happened to become popular (they had all  sorts of weird layouts), doesn't mean it's the "right" way.

I like the symmetry of all dark modifiers, including "\|" and "`~" on ANSI, especially on 60%. Of course, on ISO it's not an issue

Sometimes I even like a dark spacebar so the whole alphanumeric area is "surrounded"  Screw tradition, I do what looks good.



And flipped spacebars on DCS profile is fine... There's a flaw in the design, the bottom rows are too angled so it makes a sharp edge for the thumb. No need on "proper" profiles like Cherry, SA, etc.

[azhdar]

One more reason why ANSI is wrong.
Having an Alpha in the middle of the modifiers duh

[Oobly]

One more reason why ANSI is wrong.
Having an Alpha in the middle of the modifiers duh

So, where is the "§½" / "`~" key on ISO?

And Left Shift on ISO is essentially unusable. I prefer the symmetry of ANSI (grew up on ISO and use British and Finnish ISO and US ANSI layouts).

[azhdar]

One more reason why ANSI is wrong.
Having an Alpha in the middle of the modifiers duh

So, where is the "§½" / "`~" key on ISO?

And Left Shift on ISO is essentially unusable. I prefer the symmetry of ANSI (grew up on ISO and use British and Finnish ISO and US ANSI layouts).

I guess either in the ISO key on the right of the Lshift, or the key above the Rshift
Lshift is indeed hard in ISO, but you either get used to it, or use the Rshift.

[bueller]

I'm a 60% guy but I only like symmetry on the tilde key because that key is usually Escape, the pipe key I always do in Cherry style. Never liked having alphas in a mod color.

Oh, and I'm a space bar flipper! Get on mah flipped level bros!

[Oobly]

One more reason why ANSI is wrong.
Having an Alpha in the middle of the modifiers duh

So, where is the "§½" / "`~" key on ISO?

And Left Shift on ISO is essentially unusable. I prefer the symmetry of ANSI (grew up on ISO and use British and Finnish ISO and US ANSI layouts).

I guess either in the ISO key on the right of the Lshift, or the key above the Rshift
Lshift is indeed hard in ISO, but you either get used to it, or use the Rshift.

Nope, it's next to "1"... So ISO also has a "character" key in the mods block.

I have become so used to using Right Shift because of using ISO for 30 years, that I actually never use Left Shift any more, even on ANSI...

I do like that there is an extra key on ISO layout and that it's in a useful place for gaming, though (next to shift)

[noisyturtle]

I like \ to be the same color as the alpha's so it breaks up the mods a little bit. With \ and ` the same color it looks like your keyboard is wearing a snowsuit or something. I dunno how to explain it.

[Data]

Symmetry is king, but having the option avoids the issue altogether and gives people an opportunity to change their minds down the road when they realize just how perfect and awesome symmetry is.

[noisyturtle]

If symmetry is king then why don't most sets come with an alpha colored backspace as well?

[jacobolus]

The real problem is the 'tab' and 'return' keys, IMO. Those are now used >50% of the time to input characters into a text stream, and yet they’re colored as modifier/control keys. They should be the same color as the spacebar. (The only truly acceptable solution is to make spacebar, tab, and return all bright purple.)

Also what’s with +, =, -, *, / on the numpad? Totally wrong.

[Nai_Calus]

...I want that piano and also fully support purple keys. Purple is awesome.

OK, OP, you didn't really indicate that the render didn't match what you got in your first post, so I'm not sure why you seem to be so angry at me for liking symmetry. If what you got doesn't match what was shown, that's one thing. Implying people are idiots for liking things is another. 

[Oobly]

When designing a set of keycaps with different colors, why would you ever make the |\ key and the ~` key the same color as the modifiers and special keys like shift, return, ctrl, etc? They're not special keys and theyr'e not modifiers. They belong to the same category as keys which, you know, type characters -- so they should be the same color as the letters and numbers.

I didn't notice, but just got my Eve set in the mail and realize whoever designed it made a kind of stupid, arbitrary decision to color those keys wrong. Bummer.

I just reread this post and realised... The Eve base set comes with those keys in both colours, so you can choose which to put on your board...

Why did you bother to complain about the ones you're not even going to use? Or are there those caps missing from your set? If so, you should have posted in the relevant thread.

[TopreFan333]

When designing a set of keycaps with different colors, why would you ever make the |\ key and the ~` key the same color as the modifiers and special keys like shift, return, ctrl, etc? They're not special keys and theyr'e not modifiers. They belong to the same category as keys which, you know, type characters -- so they should be the same color as the letters and numbers.

I didn't notice, but just got my Eve set in the mail and realize whoever designed it made a kind of stupid, arbitrary decision to color those keys wrong. Bummer.

I just reread this post and realised... The Eve base set comes with those keys in both colours, so you can choose which to put on your board...

Why did you bother to complain about the ones you're not even going to use? Or are there those caps missing from your set? If so, you should have posted in the relevant thread.

Those were missing from my set. Duly noted about the other thread.