Author Topic: SP DSA ISO enter?  (Read 3435 times)

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Offline Baxter

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SP DSA ISO enter?
« on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 15:50:01 »
Is there some technical reason that an ISO enter isn't possible in DSA?

As a side note does anyone have any clear shots of how the enter options sit beside DSA family caps?

Offline Lpwl

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 16:05:54 »
I'm not exactly sure why (probably something about the mold costing too much $$$) but that's how a DCS ISO Enter key looks with a DSA keyset :


(image by rage2000)


(image by rage2000)

source : keypuller.com

Offline Melvang

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 16:06:24 »
Because they don't have a mold for it.  A new mold for that cap would probably cost in the realm of $3,000+.
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Offline Baxter

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 16:40:51 »
Because they don't have a mold for it.  A new mold for that cap would probably cost in the realm of $3,000+.

I was aware they didn't have the mould but it would seem like a strange omission, I was wondering if there was some reason it was less than ideal to produce (other than volume demanded).

I'm not exactly sure why (probably something about the mold costing too much $$$) but that's how a DCS ISO Enter key looks with a DSA keyset :

Show Image

(image by rage2000)

Show Image

(image by rage2000)

source : keypuller.com


Thanks Lpwl, looks close enough for jazz but I'd be surprised if a small but obsessive portion of the european population aren't glaring at it on a daily basis.

Offline Joey Quinn

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 16:44:35 »
Because they don't have a mold for it.  A new mold for that cap would probably cost in the realm of $3,000+.

I was aware they didn't have the mould but it would seem like a strange omission, I was wondering if there was some reason it was less than ideal to produce (other than volume demanded).

Volume is the only issue, ISO is a minority. This is why most sets don't include all the ISO keys. There aren't enough users.
People in the 1980s, in general, were clearly just better than we are now in every measurable way.

The dumber the reason the more it must be done

Offline Baxter

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 16:56:26 »
Volume is the only issue, ISO is a minority. This is why most sets don't include all the ISO keys. There aren't enough users.

Yeah, I suppose DSA also has no pressure to make a unique 2u for the short shift and they can just ignore ISO, it still rankles at my completionist gland though.

I wonder if I could round up enough ISO users with the same itch, it'd be an investment in the future afterall :)

Offline Joey Quinn

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 17:00:11 »
Volume is the only issue, ISO is a minority. This is why most sets don't include all the ISO keys. There aren't enough users.

Yeah, I suppose DSA also has no pressure to make a unique 2u for the short shift and they can just ignore ISO, it still rankles at my completionist gland though.

I wonder if I could round up enough ISO users with the same itch, it'd be an investment in the future afterall :)

The short shift is a 1.75u and it exists because caps lock/ control is a 1.75u, I suppose if you talked to Melissa you may be able to get a DSA ISO enter if people will fund it.
People in the 1980s, in general, were clearly just better than we are now in every measurable way.

The dumber the reason the more it must be done

Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 17:08:49 »
Volume is the only issue, ISO is a minority. This is why most sets don't include all the ISO keys. There aren't enough users.

Yeah, I suppose DSA also has no pressure to make a unique 2u for the short shift and they can just ignore ISO, it still rankles at my completionist gland though.

I wonder if I could round up enough ISO users with the same itch, it'd be an investment in the future afterall :)

The short shift is a 1.75u and it exists because caps lock/ control is a 1.75u, I suppose if you talked to Melissa you may be able to get a DSA ISO enter if people will fund it.

If you're talking about ISO's short left shift, that's a 1.25, actually. 1.75 shifts are found on layouts with a 1u FN to the right of the right shift which is reduced from 2.75 to compensate. Normal left shift is 2.25.
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Offline Joey Quinn

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 17:11:29 »
Volume is the only issue, ISO is a minority. This is why most sets don't include all the ISO keys. There aren't enough users.

Yeah, I suppose DSA also has no pressure to make a unique 2u for the short shift and they can just ignore ISO, it still rankles at my completionist gland though.

I wonder if I could round up enough ISO users with the same itch, it'd be an investment in the future afterall :)

The short shift is a 1.75u and it exists because caps lock/ control is a 1.75u, I suppose if you talked to Melissa you may be able to get a DSA ISO enter if people will fund it.

If you're talking about ISO's short left shift, that's a 1.25, actually. 1.75 shifts are found on layouts with a 1u FN to the right of the right shift which is reduced from 2.75 to compensate. Normal left shift is 2.25.
Either way, both already have molds because they are common key sizes.
People in the 1980s, in general, were clearly just better than we are now in every measurable way.

The dumber the reason the more it must be done

Offline Baxter

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 27 April 2015, 17:15:34 »
Volume is the only issue, ISO is a minority. This is why most sets don't include all the ISO keys. There aren't enough users.

Yeah, I suppose DSA also has no pressure to make a unique 2u for the short shift and they can just ignore ISO, it still rankles at my completionist gland though.

I wonder if I could round up enough ISO users with the same itch, it'd be an investment in the future afterall :)

The short shift is a 1.75u and it exists because caps lock/ control is a 1.75u, I suppose if you talked to Melissa you may be able to get a DSA ISO enter if people will fund it.

If you're talking about ISO's short left shift, that's a 1.25, actually. 1.75 shifts are found on layouts with a 1u FN to the right of the right shift which is reduced from 2.75 to compensate. Normal left shift is 2.25.
Either way, both already have molds because they are common key sizes.

Yes, that was my, albeit slightly inaccurate, point.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 28 April 2015, 02:52:12 »
In the granite drop they charged $12 for 2 (two) enter keys.
Making a mold for an enter key which should be as simple as selling 250 $12 kits. Which they did. It's not the economics, it's simply that they don't care. Just look at the quality of their cylindrical keycaps... thin as paper. They simply don't care.

Offline GenKaan

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 28 April 2015, 04:32:21 »
Because they don't have a mold for it.  A new mold for that cap would probably cost in the realm of $3,000+.

I was aware they didn't have the mould but it would seem like a strange omission, I was wondering if there was some reason it was less than ideal to produce (other than volume demanded).

Volume is the only issue, ISO is a minority. This is why most sets don't include all the ISO keys. There aren't enough users.

I ****ing wonder why.

"We dont have a set that works for you"
"Why arent they buying!?"

If you want ISO sets go to Ducky when they/if they release a new line of PBT sets, lets pray to ****ing god they care about the ISO users.

Just the ****ing fact that ISO users have to pay $20-30 more for the same set as ANSI users is ****ing mind blowing. Not to mention that you wont even get the right ****ing parts for your ISO unless you add blanks to what ever PMK/GB set you get.
« Last Edit: Tue, 28 April 2015, 07:39:22 by GenKaan »
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Offline Lokomotivet

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 28 April 2015, 05:28:50 »
The ISO struggle is real :(
| ISO |

Offline My_Thoughts

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 28 April 2015, 07:06:42 »
Because they don't have a mold for it.  A new mold for that cap would probably cost in the realm of $3,000+.

I was aware they didn't have the mould but it would seem like a strange omission, I was wondering if there was some reason it was less than ideal to produce (other than volume demanded).

Volume is the only issue, ISO is a minority. This is why most sets don't include all the ISO keys. There aren't enough users.

I wonder, if ISO with a full Euro keyset was offered in more drops, would ISO become more popular?  A number of the group buys offer "ISO" which is some, but not all of the UK keys, and then none of the DE, FR, ES etc.

On PMK some drops offer a set for each country and some offer 1 giant Euro set.  I'm not sure which is the best way to go.  The giant set is more expensive but gives everyone a chance to get the keys they need.
« Last Edit: Tue, 28 April 2015, 07:11:39 by My_Thoughts »

Offline Baxter

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 28 April 2015, 09:00:47 »
I had a quick email exchange with SP and apparently the creation of an ISO enter dsa mould is in their backlog, but apparently they have so many tooling tasks on the go its not possible to state a date to expect them on.

Offline Thumper_

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SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 01 May 2015, 08:15:36 »
I asked SP in January about it and asked now again if there is a eta by now.
« Last Edit: Fri, 01 May 2015, 08:21:26 by Thumper_ »

Offline Lpwl

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 01 May 2015, 09:12:32 »
I asked SP in January about it and asked now again
Show Image
if there is a eta by now.

These blank ISO Enter keycaps are already available in DCS profile.

You should have a look at SP keyshop.

/!\ ABS, PBT and PC materials are listed together.

Offline Thumper_

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Re: SP DSA ISO enter?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 01 May 2015, 09:13:41 »

I asked SP in January about it and asked now again
Show Image
if there is a eta by now.

These blank ISO Enter keycaps are already available in DCS profile.

You should have a look at SP keyshop.

/!\ ABS, PBT and PC materials are listed together.

I just realized I never asked them about DSA profile. Damned.