[GB] PURPLE/CLEAR ZEALIO SWITCHES (Complete)

[cjhard]

So I brought my Phantom with Zealios in to work to use today and I'm having some serious issues with it. At least 8 of the 86 switches activate early (before the tactile bump) and are causing keys presses to double-register non-stop. Has anyone figured out a fix for this? Swap out to a different stem? Replace the switch?

I have to admit, I'm less than impressed by the shear number of my switches having this issue. If it were only 1 or even 2 I wouldn't have even said anything, but when you're getting close to a 10% failure rate that is a sincere problem.

Best solution I can give you is to test all your switches with a multimeter, explicitly wobbling them into various directions the switch allows. Fingers crossed whatever causes this behaviour can be identified, worked around, and fixed for the next restock if possible.

[Rayoui]

So I brought my Phantom with Zealios in to work to use today and I'm having some serious issues with it. At least 8 of the 86 switches activate early (before the tactile bump) and are causing keys presses to double-register non-stop. Has anyone figured out a fix for this? Swap out to a different stem? Replace the switch?

I have to admit, I'm less than impressed by the shear number of my switches having this issue. If it were only 1 or even 2 I wouldn't have even said anything, but when you're getting close to a 10% failure rate that is a sincere problem.

I'm not sure of a fix but many of my switches had the same issue. I took apart a few of the ones I removed and noticed that the contacts on the leaf sit very close together with the slider in its up position where there should be a clear separation between the contacts. Strangely enough, none of the new, unused switches I have exhibit this problem at all (verified with multimeter).

I also noticed that the bottom of the switch housing where the pins pass through have markings where the plastic appears to have melted slightly around the pins. If this is the case, the portions of the housing holding the leaf in place could be heating up enough to shift slightly during soldering causing the resting position of the leaf to change.

I know Cherry uses PBT plastic in their housings which is very resistant to heat. I'm not sure what kind of plastic is used in these clear housings.

I used a fairly hot iron when I soldered the switches (it wasn't adjustable) and I ended up with 32 malfunctioning switches. I haven't tried it yet, but using a lower temperature on the iron might help.

[KaminKevCrew]

So I brought my Phantom with Zealios in to work to use today and I'm having some serious issues with it. At least 8 of the 86 switches activate early (before the tactile bump) and are causing keys presses to double-register non-stop. Has anyone figured out a fix for this? Swap out to a different stem? Replace the switch?

I have to admit, I'm less than impressed by the shear number of my switches having this issue. If it were only 1 or even 2 I wouldn't have even said anything, but when you're getting close to a 10% failure rate that is a sincere problem.

I'm not sure of a fix but many of my switches had the same issue. I took apart a few of the ones I removed and noticed that the contacts on the leaf sit very close together with the slider in its up position where there should be a clear separation between the contacts. Strangely enough, none of the new, unused switches I have exhibit this problem at all (verified with multimeter).

I also noticed that the bottom of the switch housing where the pins pass through have markings where the plastic appears to have melted slightly around the pins. If this is the case, the portions of the housing holding the leaf in place could be heating up enough to shift slightly during soldering causing the resting position of the leaf to change.

I know Cherry uses PBT plastic in their housings which is very resistant to heat. I'm not sure what kind of plastic is used in these clear housings.

I used a fairly hot iron when I soldered the switches (it wasn't adjustable) and I ended up with 32 malfunctioning switches. I haven't tried it yet, but using a lower temperature on the iron might help.

That sounds like that may well be the issue, because at a 10-30% failure rate, I would assume that I would have gotten some broken switches, but I didn't, so that makes me think that it probably is due to the heat of the iron (I have a makerspace near me, and I used their really nice temperature adjustable iron, so I was running pretty low heat.)

[strict]

So I brought my Phantom with Zealios in to work to use today and I'm having some serious issues with it. At least 8 of the 86 switches activate early (before the tactile bump) and are causing keys presses to double-register non-stop. Has anyone figured out a fix for this? Swap out to a different stem? Replace the switch?

I have to admit, I'm less than impressed by the shear number of my switches having this issue. If it were only 1 or even 2 I wouldn't have even said anything, but when you're getting close to a 10% failure rate that is a sincere problem.

I'm not sure of a fix but many of my switches had the same issue. I took apart a few of the ones I removed and noticed that the contacts on the leaf sit very close together with the slider in its up position where there should be a clear separation between the contacts. Strangely enough, none of the new, unused switches I have exhibit this problem at all (verified with multimeter).

I also noticed that the bottom of the switch housing where the pins pass through have markings where the plastic appears to have melted slightly around the pins. If this is the case, the portions of the housing holding the leaf in place could be heating up enough to shift slightly during soldering causing the resting position of the leaf to change.

I know Cherry uses PBT plastic in their housings which is very resistant to heat. I'm not sure what kind of plastic is used in these clear housings.

I used a fairly hot iron when I soldered the switches (it wasn't adjustable) and I ended up with 32 malfunctioning switches. I haven't tried it yet, but using a lower temperature on the iron might help.

That sounds like that may well be the issue, because at a 10-30% failure rate, I would assume that I would have gotten some broken switches, but I didn't, so that makes me think that it probably is due to the heat of the iron (I have a makerspace near me, and I used their really nice temperature adjustable iron, so I was running pretty low heat.)

I used a nice Weller WES50 set at 550F which is where I've had it set for every other switch I've ever installed and never had this issue, Gateron or Cherry. Not saying that's not the issue, but if it is there should be a huge disclaimer about the extra heat sensitivity when installing these.

[KaminKevCrew]

So I brought my Phantom with Zealios in to work to use today and I'm having some serious issues with it. At least 8 of the 86 switches activate early (before the tactile bump) and are causing keys presses to double-register non-stop. Has anyone figured out a fix for this? Swap out to a different stem? Replace the switch?

I have to admit, I'm less than impressed by the shear number of my switches having this issue. If it were only 1 or even 2 I wouldn't have even said anything, but when you're getting close to a 10% failure rate that is a sincere problem.

I'm not sure of a fix but many of my switches had the same issue. I took apart a few of the ones I removed and noticed that the contacts on the leaf sit very close together with the slider in its up position where there should be a clear separation between the contacts. Strangely enough, none of the new, unused switches I have exhibit this problem at all (verified with multimeter).

I also noticed that the bottom of the switch housing where the pins pass through have markings where the plastic appears to have melted slightly around the pins. If this is the case, the portions of the housing holding the leaf in place could be heating up enough to shift slightly during soldering causing the resting position of the leaf to change.

I know Cherry uses PBT plastic in their housings which is very resistant to heat. I'm not sure what kind of plastic is used in these clear housings.

I used a fairly hot iron when I soldered the switches (it wasn't adjustable) and I ended up with 32 malfunctioning switches. I haven't tried it yet, but using a lower temperature on the iron might help.

That sounds like that may well be the issue, because at a 10-30% failure rate, I would assume that I would have gotten some broken switches, but I didn't, so that makes me think that it probably is due to the heat of the iron (I have a makerspace near me, and I used their really nice temperature adjustable iron, so I was running pretty low heat.)

I used a nice Weller WES50 set at 550F which is where I've had it set for every other switch I've ever installed and never had this issue, Gateron or Cherry. Not saying that's not the issue, but if it is there should be a huge disclaimer about the extra heat sensitivity when installing these.

Huh, I think I was running a touch closer to 600F than you. I did, however, cheat a little bit because I didn't really heat up the pins, I just flowed solder into the holes, so it went extremely quickly.

[ika]

with almost a third of your switches having issues, 10% of another user's switches with issues, and only one out of 100 of my switches with issues, I'm inclined to think the soldering method is the key. I even opened all of my Zealios up to put SIP sockets in and I still only see problems with one switch.

[KaminKevCrew]

with almost a third of your switches having issues, 10% of another user's switches with issues, and only one out of 100 of my switches with issues, I'm inclined to think the soldering method is the key. I even opened all of my Zealios up to put SIP sockets in and I still only see problems with one switch.

I also did SIP sockets, and I haven't had a single issue with the switches.

[ideus]

Install with SIP sockets appears to be the way to go with Zealios.

[cjhard]

Fir the sake of science and statistics:

I installed all my LED's inside the switches and soldered with the Edsyn CL1481 fixed temp iron I got from mkawa ("between 325 and 450 degrees celsius" per his site). Only 5 switches applied to my FaceW were affected. It was my second ever soldering attempt, so I was naturally real rough with it

[trenzafeeds]

Install with SIP sockets appears to be the way to go with Zealios.

I really have no desire to install with SIP sockets, so I'll do a board without them and report back on how it goes.

[E3E]

Install with SIP sockets appears to be the way to go with Zealios.

[Insert thoughts about using twice as many SIP sockets for RGB LEDs here]

 

[EDIT: {Then realize you are sleep deprived and being stupid, E3E}]

[inanis]

You guys are making me nervous over here. I do not have world class soldering skills, though I've assembled a few boards. I'm still worried enough about butchering in my PCB, now I'm concerned about the switches! Maybe I'll practice on something else first to up my soldering game.

[rpeterclark]

I don't see how SIP sockets could have any affect. I think ika was just noting that he added SIP sockets (thus heating the metal/switch contact points twice) and only had one instance of the problem, in comparison to some people who only soldered the switches once and have encountered the issue much more frequently. However, it sounds plausible to me that whatever the clear plastic is on the switch bottom in just not as heat tolerant as the standard switch bottom materials and that a little too much heat can deform it, thereby deforming the switch interior.

[trenzafeeds]

I don't see how SIP sockets could have any affect. I think ika was just noting that he added SIP sockets (thus heating the metal/switch contact points twice) and only had one instance of the problem, in comparison to some people who only soldered the switches once and have encountered the issue much more frequently. However, it sounds plausible to me that whatever the clear plastic is on the switch bottom in just not as heat  as the standard switch bottom materials and that a little too much heat can deform it, thereby deforming the switch interior.

Makes sense. I'll only be using enough heat to melt the solder, nothing more.

[ideus]

The metallic contacts are the same as the other Gaterons, the main difference is the use of other material for the bottom of the switch; therefore, a possible solution for the faulty ones could be to use the bottom of an standard Gateron or an MX. It is not the most elegant countermeasure, but I think that should solve the issue.

[ika]

Sorry, I should clarify - having SIP sockets means I opened up all my switches, potentially messing up the contact leaf around on the inside. I know I messed up closing a couple of them on accident, so it appears that opening the switches didn't affect the way they actuate.

I do have a suspicion that some of the friction/rubbing/mushy bottom out I'm experiencing either has to do with the fact that my PCB has LEDs to the bottom, or due to the SIP sockets making the switch top not sit as flush as it could be. I'm still looking into why I have/had issues with the bottom-out on my switches but no one other than Oobly has mentioned it. I need to go so hopefully this post makes sense.

[E3E]

I don't see how SIP sockets could have any affect. I think ika was just noting that he added SIP sockets (thus heating the metal/switch contact points twice) and only had one instance of the problem, in comparison to some people who only soldered the switches once and have encountered the issue much more frequently. However, it sounds plausible to me that whatever the clear plastic is on the switch bottom in just not as heat  as the standard switch bottom materials and that a little too much heat can deform it, thereby deforming the switch interior.

Makes sense. I'll only be using enough heat to melt the solder, nothing more.

Yeah, I keep my soldering iron set to 256c so it's just enough to melt the solder and not blazing to the point of destroying pads or singing the switch bottoms.

Desoldering is usually the only time you'd ever see the bottoms possibly singe for the most part though, especially if you're having trouble soldering a particular pad.

[techmattr]

Interesting. I have a pretty high failure rate so far and I was initially thinking it was the diodes. I did a very quick soldering job on this phantom at 750F and thought I may have overheated a few of the diodes. I tried just reflowing solder on each switch and diode and I ended up adding failures instead of fixing any.... I was pretty confused at that point. I'll have to pop out a few of the bad switches and take a look. I'd actually be pretty happy to find it was something I did and not an issue with the switch in manufacturing.

[ccc24]

is this an issue with all the different weights? I have yet to put my purple 67's into a board yet...so it'd be nice to pinpoint the problem before I do.

[KaminKevCrew]

is this an issue with all the different weights? I have yet to put my purple 67's into a board yet...so it'd be nice to pinpoint the problem before I do.

I have 67s and I didn't have a single issue with them, at all.

[Zeal]

Hey guys -- I've been reading all your concerns and have been taking note of what's being said. There definitely will be a revision in R2 to address these issues. I'll also be talking to Gateron to see what changes are possible for R2. I'd like to also mention that I can't thank the community enough for the support. Without you guys, these switches wouldn't be possible. Hopefully we can pinpoint the issues at hand to make these the perfect switch going forward!

That being said, after shipping out almost all the Zealios (still working on cables/spring lube), I got really curious if I could replicate the chattering issue in order to experience it first hand.

I spent Saturday afternoon modding/lubing my 65g Zealios (they are unbelievably quiet after lube!) and soldered my Viper on Sunday. I used my Edsyn 951sxe @650F with a medium sized chisel tip and Kester 44 63/37 0.021" solder. It's a 95W iron so heat transfer and regen is really quick. Both pins and joints were touching the tip, and solder was being fed onto the tip to flow. Viper PCB has a larger hole for 1 pin (to support matias switches), so those pads were heated for longer than the other.

Here's the result
I only grabbed 60 Zealios out of the bin and nothing more. I did not replace any switches or do any "checks". No chattering or actuation before bump was found. I wiggled all the keys in all directions before spamming each key a couple times in EK's switch hitter.

I will say that the transparent line of Zealios were designed for enthusiast use only (meaning no automated wave soldering). Yes, the bottom housing has a lower melting point than stock Gateron/Cherry switches, but that's the limitation of the nylon polymer used to achieve the transparent look. Gateron has confirmed with me that it will be fine for hand soldering though. If manufacturers were to use Zealios, their version would require the use of the "milky" nylon bottom housing that has fiberglass mixed into it. Maybe I got super lucky, maybe it's the soldering technique that's deforming the bottom housing. Would anyone be able to perform some more testing to see if non-soldered Zealios are affected?

There was some discussion on reddit found here and they think it may be the stem size causing issue. It could be both though?

[mtl]

Hi Zeal, Thanks for working to make these the best switches possible. For v2, can you make the PCB mount legs about 0.1 mm narrower? They're still too tight for a PCB I had made using a common MX footprint. I've ordered a new PCB with wider holes to test the fit.

[cjhard]

I can see my right Ctrl key is activating too high, but it's not showing up as red on EK's program. Just by giving the top of the keycap a light tap a few times I was able to get it to log this repeatedly:
51:56.0790 RCtrl (0x11, BIOS 0xE01D) DOWN
51:56.0794 RCtrl (0x11, BIOS 0xE01D) UP -> 5ms

It ranges between 5ms and 64ms each tap. The best way to identify these is to just kinda tap your fingers against the top of the cap a few times, the maybe-defective ones actuate like MX Red's with a 10g spring

[techmattr]

I could only spend a few minutes on this during lunch and I did find a few switches that had a malformed stem like the one someone pictured above. However, those switches operate just fine and feel fine. So far the switches with major chattering are all melted a bit at the pins.

[Zeal]

Hi Zeal, Thanks for working to make these the best switches possible. For v2, can you make the PCB mount legs about 0.1 mm narrower? They're still too tight for a PCB I had made using a common MX footprint. I've ordered a new PCB with wider holes to test the fit.

Can't make injection moulds smaller, only larger. :x I've tried Gaterons and Zealios on a few PCBs, and it seems like only winkeyless' line of PCBs have a tight PCB hole. Duck, LZ all fit in smoothly. If you feel that the PCB holes are a bit too tight, you can shave one or two of the "micro-fins" down for a snug fit.

I can see my right Ctrl key is activating too high, but it's not showing up as red on EK's program. Just by giving the top of the keycap a light tap a few times I was able to get it to log this repeatedly:
51:56.0790 RCtrl (0x11, BIOS 0xE01D) DOWN
51:56.0794 RCtrl (0x11, BIOS 0xE01D) UP -> 5ms

It ranges between 5ms and 64ms each tap. The best way to identify these is to just kinda tap your fingers against the top of the cap a few times, the maybe-defective ones actuate like MX Red's with a 10g spring

I just tried again, the shortest I was able to get was 15ms, but that was me tapping into the top of the tactile bump and letting go. Everything else for a full travel was around 30-60ms avg.

I could only spend a few minutes on this during lunch and I did find a few switches that had a malformed stem like the one someone pictured above. However, those switches operate just fine and feel fine. So far the switches with major chattering are all melted a bit at the pins.

Please provide some pictures if possible. I'll be collecting pictures to submit to Gateron. I'd also like to see how deformed the bottom housings were.

[KaminKevCrew]

Hi Zeal, Thanks for working to make these the best switches possible. For v2, can you make the PCB mount legs about 0.1 mm narrower? They're still too tight for a PCB I had made using a common MX footprint. I've ordered a new PCB with wider holes to test the fit.

Can't make injection moulds smaller, only larger. :x I've tried Gaterons and Zealios on a few PCBs, and it seems like only winkeyless' line of PCBs have a tight PCB hole. Duck, LZ all fit in smoothly. If you feel that the PCB holes are a bit too tight, you can shave one or two of the "micro-fins" down for a snug fit.

I can see my right Ctrl key is activating too high, but it's not showing up as red on EK's program. Just by giving the top of the keycap a light tap a few times I was able to get it to log this repeatedly:
51:56.0790 RCtrl (0x11, BIOS 0xE01D) DOWN
51:56.0794 RCtrl (0x11, BIOS 0xE01D) UP -> 5ms

It ranges between 5ms and 64ms each tap. The best way to identify these is to just kinda tap your fingers against the top of the cap a few times, the maybe-defective ones actuate like MX Red's with a 10g spring

I just tried again, the shortest I was able to get was 15ms, but that was me tapping into the top of the tactile bump and letting go. Everything else for a full travel was around 30-60ms avg.

I could only spend a few minutes on this during lunch and I did find a few switches that had a malformed stem like the one someone pictured above. However, those switches operate just fine and feel fine. So far the switches with major chattering are all melted a bit at the pins.

Please provide some pictures if possible. I'll be collecting pictures to submit to Gateron. I'd also like to see how deformed the bottom housings were.

My zealios fit in my sprit facew pcb just fine. I'm thinking I might grab a nerd pcd and see what desoldering does to the switches.

[tofgerl]

So far this thread has gotten me 100 great switches I can't wait to use (waiting for PCB stabilizers from 7bit), and now I find out about Switch Hitter, which is going to be a lot better to use for testing the keyboard than notepad.exe, which I used last time!

You guys got any other pearls of wisdom I've missed out on?

[filphil]

Hey zeal,

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/others/135-cherry-switch-puller.html

I noticed that when I use this tool(modded to gons specifications) to pull switches out of a plate that it cracks the front area of the switch top(where the led is fed through).  Normally cherry mx tops and cherry mx switches with gateron clear switch tops are tough enough to withstand being pulled that way.  I'm not sure if it's a result of the material in the switch top or the snugness of the switch to the pcb but I thought I'd let you know. 

[KaminKevCrew]

Hey zeal,

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/others/135-cherry-switch-puller.html

I noticed that when I use this tool(modded to gons specifications) to pull switches out of a plate that it cracks the front area of the switch top(where the led is fed through).  Normally cherry mx tops and cherry mx switches with gateron clear switch tops are tough enough to withstand being pulled that way.  I'm not sure if it's a result of the material in the switch top or the snugness of the switch to the pcb but I thought I'd let you know.

That's interesting. I've yanked a few with nothing but a paper clip I bent with a Leatherman, and my switches are all looking like new.

[Zeal]

Hey zeal,

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/others/135-cherry-switch-puller.html

I noticed that when I use this tool(modded to gons specifications) to pull switches out of a plate that it cracks the front area of the switch top(where the led is fed through).  Normally cherry mx tops and cherry mx switches with gateron clear switch tops are tough enough to withstand being pulled that way.  I'm not sure if it's a result of the material in the switch top or the snugness of the switch to the pcb but I thought I'd let you know. 

That's interesting. I've used the Topre keypuller to pull Zealios out of a plate+PCB and have not had such issues (wiggle+pull). I'll try again later in the afternoon. Please provide some pictures if possible.

[filphil]

Hey zeal,

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/others/135-cherry-switch-puller.html

I noticed that when I use this tool(modded to gons specifications) to pull switches out of a plate that it cracks the front area of the switch top(where the led is fed through).  Normally cherry mx tops and cherry mx switches with gateron clear switch tops are tough enough to withstand being pulled that way.  I'm not sure if it's a result of the material in the switch top or the snugness of the switch to the pcb but I thought I'd let you know. 

That's interesting. I've used the Topre keypuller to pull Zealios out of a plate+PCB and have not had such issues (wiggle+pull). I'll try again later in the afternoon. Please provide some pictures if possible.

What happens is it pushes the tabs in and lifts purely from the switch top. I'll get you a pic when i can.

Edit::

[techmattr]

Please provide some pictures if possible. I'll be collecting pictures to submit to Gateron. I'd also like to see how deformed the bottom housings were.

I'll take some pics when I get home. I tried to take some real quick before I went back to work but it didn't show up well.

I assume you have a large quantity of 65g tactile on hand ready to ship? I may just end up replacing these 62g (some of which I melted) with 65g.

[rpeterclark]

Hey zeal,

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/others/135-cherry-switch-puller.html

I noticed that when I use this tool(modded to gons specifications) to pull switches out of a plate that it cracks the front area of the switch top(where the led is fed through).  Normally cherry mx tops and cherry mx switches with gateron clear switch tops are tough enough to withstand being pulled that way.  I'm not sure if it's a result of the material in the switch top or the snugness of the switch to the pcb but I thought I'd let you know. 

That's interesting. I've used the Topre keypuller to pull Zealios out of a plate+PCB and have not had such issues (wiggle+pull). I'll try again later in the afternoon. Please provide some pictures if possible.

What happens is it pushes the tabs in and lifts purely from the switch top. I'll get you a pic when i can.

Edit::

Show Image

I suspect that has to do with it having less material in that cross area to make room for RGB LEDs. If you look at a regular switch top there's a lot more structure there that probably helps it withstand the pulling.

[strict]

Installed Switch Hitter to do some testing and its worse than I had originally thought. I have 12 total keys that are chattering because of the early activation issue. Going to do some further testing and see if I can come up with a fix, though I only bought 100 switches so I only have 14 spares to work with. I would have never imagined I would be questioning if 14 spare switches is enough ...

[strict]

Swapping out to a different stem doesn't help. Im debating trying to ever-so-slightly tweak the leaf spring to see if I can find some technique that will fix it.

I think what confounds me about this is that I soldered on a relatively low temp (550F-575F) and did not hold the iron tip on the legs any longer than needed on any of these switches and I still ended up with a >10% failure rate. Is it possible that these things are truly that sensitive to heat?? I have a hard time imagining that to be the case, I wish I had a better multimeter to test some of my unsoldered spares laying around to see if any of them have this issue.

[cjhard]

A quick way to test the heat sensitivity theory is to fire up your iron to heat, apply tip to leg of one sacrificial Zealio, and see how long it takes before it gets all melty and junk. +100 bonus points if you record it with a fancy schmancy macro lens so we can all clearly see what the ****s going on, and how long one Zealio can stand the heat before it has to get out of the kitchen

[Zeal]

Please provide some pictures if possible. I'll be collecting pictures to submit to Gateron. I'd also like to see how deformed the bottom housings were.

I'll take some pics when I get home. I tried to take some real quick before I went back to work but it didn't show up well.

I assume you have a large quantity of 65g tactile on hand ready to ship? I may just end up replacing these 62g (some of which I melted) with 65g.

Yes, I have a large quantity of 65g and 67g Zealios remaining.

A quick way to test the heat sensitivity theory is to fire up your iron to heat, apply tip to leg of one sacrificial Zealio, and see how long it takes before it gets all melty and junk. +100 bonus points if you record it with a fancy schmancy macro lens so we can all clearly see what the ****s going on, and how long one Zealio can stand the heat before it has to get out of the kitchen

On Behalf of Zeal PC, I'll do that for the name of science.

[romevi]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

[KaminKevCrew]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

I only have 67, but the bump feels massive to me.

[Zeal]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

The bump from the 65g feels longer than 67g for some reason. It was noted in the reviews. I think it's just the slightly stiffer spring that causes the shorter bump on 67gs.

[romevi]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

The bump from the 65g feels longer than 67g for some reason. It was noted in the reviews. I think it's just the slightly stiffer spring that causes the shorter bump on 67gs.

Ah, that makes sense. I read the reviews but obviously forgot.

Thanks so much!

[cjhard]

I agree with the springs, the bump isn't even felt with 120g springs. Though neither are your fingers after a while.

[hebbler]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

This was my experience with the standard Cherry switches also.  Increasing the spring weight on the clear and brown (tactile) switches lessens the feeling of the bump.  Lighter springs had the opposite effect.  More finger pressure to activate but same pressure required to overcome the bump, means you feel less of the bump is my guess.

[W_hinklebottom]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

This was my experience with the standard Cherry switches also.  Increasing the spring weight on the clear and brown (tactile) switches lessens the feeling of the bump.  Lighter springs had the opposite effect.  More finger pressure to activate but same pressure required to overcome the bump, means you feel less of the bump is my guess.

That explains why I can't feel the bump anymore on my brown switches I swapped out with 100g springs.

[Kazekumiho]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

The bump from the 65g feels longer than 67g for some reason. It was noted in the reviews. I think it's just the slightly stiffer spring that causes the shorter bump on 67gs.

Hey Zeal! I'm about to buy a bunch of switches for a WKL board, but I'm not sure if I should get 65g or 67g switches. Apparently those 2g make a huge difference, because people keep talking about how the bump is longer on the 65g switches, etc. I'm having so much trouble deciding that I think I'll just get hybrid - 67g alphas with 65g modifiers. I'm going for what's most like ergo-clears, and from what I've heard, 67g switches are most like those. That said, I still want to try 65g's and I think having lighter modifiers is more ergonomic/less strain-ful? In your opinion, is there much of a difference and is this a good idea or should I choose one type? Thank's so much! (I honestly don't think I would be able to tell the difference between the switches and I guess worst case, I can change out springs...)

[Rayoui]

Please provide some pictures if possible. I'll be collecting pictures to submit to Gateron. I'd also like to see how deformed the bottom housings were.

Left is a new, unused Zealio. Right is one I desoldered exhibiting the "melty" housing around the pins.

I tested some unused switches with a multimeter and none of them seem to have the chattering issue. I think the housing is shifting just slightly enough around the pins to allow the leaf to shift so that the contacts are sitting too close together.

[romevi]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

The bump from the 65g feels longer than 67g for some reason. It was noted in the reviews. I think it's just the slightly stiffer spring that causes the shorter bump on 67gs.

Hey Zeal! I'm about to buy a bunch of switches for a WKL board, but I'm not sure if I should get 65g or 67g switches. Apparently those 2g make a huge difference, because people keep talking about how the bump is longer on the 65g switches, etc. I'm having so much trouble deciding that I think I'll just get hybrid - 67g alphas with 65g modifiers. I'm going for what's most like ergo-clears, and from what I've heard, 67g switches are most like those. That said, I still want to try 65g's and I think having lighter modifiers is more ergonomic/less strain-ful? In your opinion, is there much of a difference and is this a good idea or should I choose one type? Thank's so much! (I honestly don't think I would be able to tell the difference between the switches and I guess worst case, I can change out springs...)

I'd get 65g Zealios and, if you want to change them later, 67g springs. I much prefer the 65g as I feel the bump more.

[Kazekumiho]

Is it me, or does the bump in the 65g feel more apparent than the 67g purple? I have both, and I prefer the 65g one as I feel the bump more.

The bump from the 65g feels longer than 67g for some reason. It was noted in the reviews. I think it's just the slightly stiffer spring that causes the shorter bump on 67gs.

Hey Zeal! I'm about to buy a bunch of switches for a WKL board, but I'm not sure if I should get 65g or 67g switches. Apparently those 2g make a huge difference, because people keep talking about how the bump is longer on the 65g switches, etc. I'm having so much trouble deciding that I think I'll just get hybrid - 67g alphas with 65g modifiers. I'm going for what's most like ergo-clears, and from what I've heard, 67g switches are most like those. That said, I still want to try 65g's and I think having lighter modifiers is more ergonomic/less strain-ful? In your opinion, is there much of a difference and is this a good idea or should I choose one type? Thank's so much! (I honestly don't think I would be able to tell the difference between the switches and I guess worst case, I can change out springs...)

I'd get 65g Zealios and, if you want to change them later, 67g springs. I much prefer the 65g as I feel the bump more.

Hey, thanks for your response! I think I'll go hybrid for two reasons - A. I probably won't notice a difference and it will be ever so slightly easier on my pinkies - not that this is ever a problem because I use a BS keyboard. B. If I go hybrid and decide to change, it's less springs to change out. I wonder if my keyboard supports switch opening....

[Steezus]

Please provide some pictures if possible. I'll be collecting pictures to submit to Gateron. I'd also like to see how deformed the bottom housings were.

Left is a new, unused Zealio. Right is one I desoldered exhibiting the "melty" housing around the pins.

I tested some unused switches with a multimeter and none of them seem to have the chattering issue. I think the housing is shifting just slightly enough around the pins to allow the leaf to shift so that the contacts are sitting too close together.

Show Image

What temp you using to solder and de-solder the switches? I'm curious as to how easy the casing melts.

[techmattr]

Not sure how useful this will be. Very hard to see the melted spots. I couldn't find any more malformed stems. The couple I found are soldered on a board at the moment.