Author Topic: Soldering Iron/Station.  (Read 114011 times)

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Offline J888www

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« on: Mon, 06 September 2010, 17:30:40 »
Quote from: British;212133
What size is the soldering iron tip you used ?
Any useful tip for a rusty-not-so-good-solderer ?

Just to update an answer to an old question. Most people will point you to the direction of a Weller. To those professionals, Hakko are arguably the best manufacturer of Soldering Irons (Made in Nippon), but they are also extremely expensive, which is why many people use other lesser quality products.
     Now Prayers have been answered, an OEM product (supposedly manufactured by Hakko, :tape2:), but with an absurdly cheap affordable price tag, $39.95 which includes one FREE replacement ceramic heating element. In the UK, it's slightly more expensive at £29.12p (Inclusive of VAT).

Or if you prefer a Digital display model at a slightly higher price.

CircuitSpecialist or CircuitSpecialist_Europe.

There are large numbers of "El Cheapo" from the Central Kingdom, but this is Quality at price which even my frail memory cannot forget, I'll purchase one very soon to replace my ancient Weller SI25D.

NB: Be sure to check YouTube on how to Tin the soldering iron tip to enjoy many wonderful hours of soldering (it too can become addictive).
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Offline WhiteRice

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« Reply #1 on: Mon, 06 September 2010, 17:38:56 »
Crap right after I bought a TMC off ebay for $30

Offline JBert

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« Reply #2 on: Mon, 06 September 2010, 17:43:20 »
How many watts does that station offer? I have some cheap soldering irons with 25 watt and they take quite some time to (re-)heat.

My trusty old Weller might not have anything fancy (temperature is controlled by the magnetic tip), but it still does the job well with its 50 watts.
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Offline J888www

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« Reply #3 on: Mon, 06 September 2010, 19:54:40 »
I'm now deciding on the Analog Lead Free model.
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Offline EverythingIBM

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« Reply #4 on: Mon, 06 September 2010, 22:17:26 »
Quote from: ripster;220590
Does it take Weller tips?




Better ask Welly about the Wellers.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline J888www

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« Reply #5 on: Tue, 07 September 2010, 02:53:10 »
Quote from: JBert;220527
....soldering irons with 25 watt and they take quite some time to (re-)heat.
If using damp sponge pad to clean tip, it draws heat away from tip, wire type cleaner works better, or maybe just a small stainless steel metal brush (size of tooth brush) with tin.


Standard tips survives for 5-7 days, Hakko tips will last approximately two Months, so they say, but I guess it's all down to how you use the soldering iron.
There's also a great difference between Lead based and Lead-Free products. (ie. using standard tip with Lead-Free solder will kill the tip quicker.)
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 September 2010, 03:01:09 by J888www »
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
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Offline British

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« Reply #6 on: Tue, 07 September 2010, 04:41:00 »
Yeah, I was heading towards Weller as well, but those CSI (meh...) stations might be worth a look.

What do you mean when you say tips "survive" only a few days ?
The way I saw it was that tips lasted for ages, providing you're not into soldering very small stuff.

Offline TheSoundofTyping

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 07 September 2010, 06:10:35 »
What a coinkeydink, I was about to make a thread asking about soldering iron temperatures -

What temperature range is considered to be the best for small (PCB type) soldering?
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Offline EverythingIBM

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« Reply #8 on: Tue, 07 September 2010, 06:39:20 »
Quote from: TheSoundofTyping;220665
What a coinkeydink, I was about to make a thread asking about soldering iron temperatures -

What temperature range is considered to be the best for small (PCB type) soldering?


Not sure if this is helpful, but "badcaps.net" recommends 40 watts for capacitor work on PCBs:
Quote
NEVER use 'cold heat' types of soldering irons!!  They work off the principle of an ARC welder, and emit a current.  This can instantly destroy your board when contact is made.  If a good soldering station is not available to you, a 40 watt solder pencil with a fine tip on it will be sufficient.
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Offline Lanx

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 07 September 2010, 07:27:41 »
what about this?
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1283862278&sr=1-1
i have no knowledge of soldering irons or nothing, but really want to get one, googling csi station 1a, i saw a few mentions of this and if you buy the csi station1a it's 12bucks shipping, so this amazon one is basically the same price but digital? looks japanesey too!

Offline didjamatic

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« Reply #10 on: Tue, 07 September 2010, 08:27:41 »
Where I work there are cleanroom manufacturing facilities and they all use Hakko.  I absolutely love my Hakko soldering station, it took a while to find a deal on it but I'm happy I did.

That new, cheaper unit you posted is likely their response to the knockoffs.  No offense to Aoyue owners but their knock-off of Hakko is very blatant in many models - they even copy the model numbers!  But if you look into the specs, they don't compare.  Read about the cable that connects to the iron, big difference.  It's like seeing a Keytronic and Model M side by side, they mostly look the same, have the same number of keys, perform the same basic function, but they are very different inside.  For some that is fine, even a 40w iron from Radio Shack works great so don't feel like you have to have a soldering station to do mods - you dont.  My old cheapy 40w Radio Shack iron worked just fine, but I couldn't go as fast or the tip would cool off.  I get a more consistent result from my soldering station and I can work much faster and it's more relaxing and enjoyable where it was a bit more tedious with the cheapy.  But seriously either are great.  If these lower end units really are Hakkos, I'm glad to see they are offering something to compete with those knocking them off.

My Hakko is the FM-202 but has the newer iron, holder, tips, tip holder and tip cleaner like this photo.  I LOVE IT.



These 936's are really popular among the Hobbyist and RC crowd, I guess they make their own battery packs.  This station is also available in Black, White.  :)




Here's another knock-off.
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Offline TheSoundofTyping

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« Reply #11 on: Tue, 07 September 2010, 08:50:01 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;220668
Not sure if this is helpful, but "badcaps.net" recommends 40 watts for capacitor work on PCBs:

Oh, thanks for your answer, but I meant temperature in degrees :P (as the stations in the OP have selectable temperature)
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Offline didjamatic

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« Reply #12 on: Tue, 07 September 2010, 14:12:42 »
I use 750 on keyboard switch soldering/desoldering.
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Offline Stone

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 10 September 2010, 14:23:21 »
Wow, just wow. Nothing will clean (erode?) quite as thoroughly as HCl, I guess...

One of my friends at uni had one of those knockoff hot-air stations, think it was about the £120 version. It was actually surprisingly good - with a syringe of decent leaded solderpaste I was repeatedly soldering and desoldering QFP48s with less than half an hour's practice. I can do it by hand individually too (woo myopia) but why make your life hard if you don't have to?

I've been meaning to replace my crappy home iron for ages as I've just been using the Wellers at work - so I'll have a serious look at those in the OP. Thanks!

Stone
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 September 2010, 14:29:01 by Stone »

Offline aegrotatio

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« Reply #14 on: Fri, 10 September 2010, 14:36:55 »
Okay, how do you guys tell when the tips are worn out?  Besides failing to tin the tip, is there a way to tell?
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Offline PAINKILLER

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« Reply #15 on: Sat, 11 September 2010, 11:59:20 »
I use a low voltage 25W soldering iron, very old and made in the USSR :D Model ГОСТ 7219-83 (which stands for "Government Standard 7219-83"). This **** is amazing! It may heat up relatively slowly and lack any control, but it is damn nice and easy to use. The best part about it is the tip. I haven't seen other soldering irons with the same type of tip and don't know if it even has a name. It is something like this, but shorter:

The shape is a cylinder about 25mm long (1") and 4mm diameter (.16"), intersected at 45 degrees. The intersected side is actually concave, so it forms a very nice solder reservoir. The first time I saw it I was wondering is it supposed to be like that or is the guy just giving me a crappy iron. It can hold about 1-2 solder joints worth of material in the reservoir and about as much more over it, to form a kind of a bubble, if you will. The very tip has a little notch which fits onto any wire that you want to solder or desolder, without slipping. You can also run a length of wire a few times through the notch to easily cover it in solder: it gets cleaned by the flux which floats on top of the solder in the reservoir and by the tip itself and takes solder from the reservoir. I only have the reservoir and the notch covered in solder, and only now when I see this pic I realize that maybe the side is also intended to be covered, but I don't see the point. This tip design is also very nice for desoldering. When the reservoir is full of solder a good tap on the handle gets the material out splashing as a drop. Then if you melt a joint, material flows in to fill the reservoir through capillary action. You repeat that a couple of times and the joint loses enough material to remove the element you want to desolder. Simple as that! I have never actually used a desolder pump or braid, so I'm not saying it is as easy as using those 2 things, but you can reasonably well do without them if you use this kind of iron tip. The tip also requires very little maintenance, because the reservoir is permanently covered in solder and anything unwanted there can be flushed out by simply adding some solder to fill the reservoir and then tapping the handle.
This is my first soldering iron, I've tried other more powerful irons with conical tips, but I'm definitely sticking with this one. It sees only occasional use, so you shouldn't consider my words as a pro's words or anything. But IMHO it is awesome and I highly recommend this kind of tip, especially for novices, for it's ease of use, low maintenance, greater solder-bearing area and volume, and all the tricks it can do that I described above. I don't even know if this type of tip is widely used or not, but if you can get one, it's definitely worth trying it.

Offline JBert

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« Reply #16 on: Sun, 12 September 2010, 07:31:18 »
Quote from: ripster;221703
I dunno where J888 is getting his info but  I've had mine for years and years before replacing recently when it didn't seem to be taking tinning very well.

People tend to overlook how important this is to prepare the tip and end up overheating the pads and lifting them.
I did have one slowly die, though I estimate it was 20 years old.

Basically, it is good until the coating is compromised. Once that coating is gone at some spot, the heat and acidic flux will cause the copper in the tip to be eaten away.
The tip in this case started to hollow out with the normal screw-driver point chaning into just two points with nothing in between.

Quote from: PAINKILLER;222022
I use a low voltage 25W soldering iron, very old and made in the USSR :D Model ГОСТ 7219-83 (which stands for "Government Standard 7219-83"). This **** is amazing! It may heat up relatively slowly and lack any control, but it is damn nice and easy to use. The best part about it is the tip. I haven't seen other soldering irons with the same type of tip and don't know if it even has a name. It is something like this, but shorter:
Show Image

The shape is a cylinder about 25mm long (1") and 4mm diameter (.16"), intersected at 45 degrees. The intersected side is actually concave, so it forms a very nice solder reservoir. The first time I saw it I was wondering is it supposed to be like that or is the guy just giving me a crappy iron. It can hold about 1-2 solder joints worth of material in the reservoir and about as much more over it, to form a kind of a bubble, if you will. The very tip has a little notch which fits onto any wire that you want to solder or desolder, without slipping. You can also run a length of wire a few times through the notch to easily cover it in solder: it gets cleaned by the flux which floats on top of the solder in the reservoir and by the tip itself and takes solder from the reservoir. I only have the reservoir and the notch covered in solder, and only now when I see this pic I realize that maybe the side is also intended to be covered, but I don't see the point. This tip design is also very nice for desoldering. When the reservoir is full of solder a good tap on the handle gets the material out splashing as a drop. Then if you melt a joint, material flows in to fill the reservoir through capillary action. You repeat that a couple of times and the joint loses enough material to remove the element you want to desolder. Simple as that! I have never actually used a desolder pump or braid, so I'm not saying it is as easy as using those 2 things, but you can reasonably well do without them if you use this kind of iron tip. The tip also requires very little maintenance, because the reservoir is permanently covered in solder and anything unwanted there can be flushed out by simply adding some solder to fill the reservoir and then tapping the handle.
This is my first soldering iron, I've tried other more powerful irons with conical tips, but I'm definitely sticking with this one. It sees only occasional use, so you shouldn't consider my words as a pro's words or anything. But IMHO it is awesome and I highly recommend this kind of tip, especially for novices, for it's ease of use, low maintenance, greater solder-bearing area and volume, and all the tricks it can do that I described above. I don't even know if this type of tip is widely used or not, but if you can get one, it's definitely worth trying it.
This sounds a lot like my worn down soldering point. Mine also held some solder in the hollows of the former screw driver, but the tip got eaten away so far that it became hard to even touch wires with it.

So could it be that it is a worn-down chisel tip, or can you actually clean the "reservoir" and see that it has an actual corrosion-resistant coating?

Obviously, you can keep on using this bit if it works for you, but you might find it gets harder to use if it is in fact a worn-down one.
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Offline didjamatic

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« Reply #17 on: Sun, 12 September 2010, 08:42:31 »
Quote from: aegrotatio;221698
Okay, how do you guys tell when the tips are worn out?  Besides failing to tin the tip, is there a way to tell?


The tip may lose it's plating and will need to be replaced but often it just needs to be cleaned.

Quote from: ripster;220751
Racing decal soldering stations?  That's geeky.

I use a block of this stuff.  Too lazy to put water in the sponge.  
Show Image


The proper way to use it is with country music.  The IMPROPER way is to take on a plane shouting "Allahu Ackbar!".


Nothing like the fumes of Hydrochloric Acid to wake you up in the morning!


My grandparents used to do a lot of stained glass windows and I remember them using that stuff.  Based on that video, it works really well and a bonus is you wouldn't have to trim your nose hairs for a while. Holy smokes.

The hakko tip cleaner has brass wire in it that is covered with flux so a couple inserts of the tip and it's clean then I tin it with.  Not sure how long they last.  They are used in production lines in many industrial applications so I think it will last a while.
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Offline PAINKILLER

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« Reply #18 on: Sun, 12 September 2010, 10:35:07 »
Quote from: JBert;222343
This sounds a lot like my worn down soldering point. Mine also held some solder in the hollows of the former screw driver, but the tip got eaten away so far that it became hard to even touch wires with it.

So could it be that it is a worn-down chisel tip, or can you actually clean the "reservoir" and see that it has an actual corrosion-resistant coating?

Obviously, you can keep on using this bit if it works for you, but you might find it gets harder to use if it is in fact a worn-down one.

It may well be worn down, because I was just given it when I was a kid, was barely told anything about how to use it, and I've done many stupid things with it, like melting plastics and igniting firecracker gunpowder :wacko: It was also of course used when I got it, being probably older than I am. So it did have a hollow from the beginning, but it has not progressed much, if at all, over all the years. Hmm I do not remember the notch being there originally though :) The flux floats at the surface and there is always some solder in the "reservoir" so I guess that protects it from being totally wasted after so much (ab)use. I don't know how to clean the solder from the tip to see below it.
The tip does not look like a chisel, in that it is not straight at the very tip, but round. Here you can see a similar tip at an angle: http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/index.php?target=products&product_id=207 They call it a "bevel tip" there. If that's the way bevel/chisel tips degrade over time, they seem to do much better than the common conical ones in that respect.
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 September 2010, 10:37:38 by PAINKILLER »

Offline aegrotatio

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« Reply #19 on: Sun, 12 September 2010, 14:45:44 »
I can't find it but I read somewhere the tip hollows out.  What's inside it?
I have a bag of tips of all kinds of different shapes that fit a nice soldering station.  I believe it is a Weller knock-off I bought from TechAmerica, the shortly-lived Tandy mail-order concern.  It has a digital temperature display (both set point and actual temp).
Daily Drivers: Ducky DK1087XM || DSI ASK-6600 || Rosewill RK-9000 BL, BR, BL, and RE || ABS M1 || Das Keyboard Silent || HHKB Lite and Lite 2 || DSI Big Font (kids love it)
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Offline Voixdelion

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« Reply #20 on: Sun, 12 September 2010, 15:13:40 »
what are reasonable price ranges to expect for and what should one look for in a good quality soldering station?  I may just have to look into this.  My first formal experiences soldering was done with butane open flame torches rather than irons (metals I in high school), so it never occurred to me that some of the inconsistency in my results with an iron might be due to the quality of iron involved until reading this thread.  I have always been better with the fire fed butane torch types than the electric ones but it never occurred to me that it might be because I could better control the heat at the tip via a visual on the flame.  But I much prefer working with the lead based stuff to the non.  Is lead so toxic that it merits the strict regulations on soldered components?  Its not like people are eating circuit boards is it?
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Offline PAINKILLER

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« Reply #21 on: Sun, 12 September 2010, 17:44:56 »
Quote from: Voixdelion;222490
Is lead so toxic that it merits the strict regulations on soldered components?  Its not like people are eating circuit boards is it?

That is precisely how it is in Europe. Recycling installations are expensive after all, so they try to make everything biodegradable and edible. We are so smart in Europe that we teach nature what is good for it.

Offline Voixdelion

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« Reply #22 on: Sun, 12 September 2010, 22:24:35 »
Quote from: PAINKILLER;222530
That is precisely how it is in Europe. Recycling installations are expensive after all, so they try to make everything biodegradable and edible. We are so smart in Europe that we teach nature what is good for it.


Now that's just odd.  And my honey thinks I have a cast iron stomach!  At least I don't have a stomach for cast iron!
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Offline JBert

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« Reply #23 on: Mon, 13 September 2010, 12:49:45 »
Quote from: aegrotatio;222486
I can't find it but I read somewhere the tip hollows out.  What's inside it?
Mostly they are made from plated copper, having great heat transfer while the plating protects the tip from corrosion.
Other metals can be used but won't transfer as much heat from the heating element to the working end of the tip.
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Offline Konrad

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« Reply #24 on: Mon, 13 September 2010, 21:54:18 »
Quote from: PAINKILLER
I use a low voltage 25W soldering iron, very old and made in the USSR ... The best part about it is the tip. I haven't seen other soldering irons with the same type of tip and don't know if it even has a name.
I also prefer low-wattage units for soft soldering. Anything from 15-40W is suitable for electronics work. Wattage equates to the iron's heat-holding capacity; larger irons take longer to heat up and cool down during use. Lightweight irons are actually faster overall because they reheat quickly, but larger (or more heat-dense) solder joints simply require more raw power. 50W+ irons tend to be clumsy and easily exceed semiconductor thermal damage thresholds unless awkward heatsinking tools are used; much of this can be avoided by just getting the right tool for the job.
 
Although most of my stuff is Metcal, I often prefer my circa-1955 10-50W "Super" and 10-25W "Mini" Scope Laboratories (Australia) soldering pencils because they allow fine temperature control by manually "pulsing" the transformer trigger. For larger (or silver-bearing) solderwork I often use a Dremel VersaTip (old electrical version) fitted with a tip-mounted LM35 and uC-automated temperature control; one of the Dremel tips can hold X-acto blades or even nickle-plated steel sewing needles which, when tinned, make superior (disposable 20/$1) fine-precision tips (they aren't copper, but still get very hot due to their small volume-intersection). Maybe the damned Dremel was meant for woodcarving or leatherburning or whatever, but makes a good 550C silver-soldering iron. I also use a copper scrubbing pad and damp sponge (both very affordable), a jar of rosin (worth it) and bottle of liquid flux (also worth it), and kimwipes for critical cleaning tasks (****ing expensive but sometimes necessary). A little (rosin-fluxed) brass brush is awfully handy, though people might stare.
 
Weller is just a brand. A popular brand, largely because of its common consumer availability. There are many other brands which are better or cost less (or both). Many DIY/mod/hack methods exist to add manual or automatic temperature sensing and control to any iron. Likewise, any iron can easily be made "ESD safe". These are essential features for any real electrical soldering, but don't pay ridiculous prices for them. If you plan to do a lot of soldering then it's worth also getting "tweezers" and "desoldering" irons, along with the usual braid, suckers, and vacuum tools. I personally never liked the old clicking relay irons, they heat too slowly and the sound bugs me.
 
Your special tip might just be a standard chisel/wedge which has been worn (or intentionally shaped) into a convex shape. Or it might be a variation of an SMT draw soldering "hoof" tip usually called "miniwave". A bewildering array of special tips exist but they are all variations of the basic geometries; some are designed for optimal use with particular solders, most are just marketing gimmicks. Soldering bits are very personal, just like any other craftsman tools; one man's perfect bit is another man's headache.
 
Yes, tips do get worn. I go through about 2-3 per week at work, sometimes more, but I use many different irons so I can alternate hot irons or use different temps or tips on the fly (I do this sort of soldering for a living). Any given tip should last at least several months; or even years or decades for an average guy who hardly touches a soldering iron. How do you know when the tip is worn? It's pitted, cracked, blunted or misshapen; the "bad" areas will no longer accept tin. Contrary to what the makers claim there's nothing really fancy about most tips: they're made of copper, brass, bronze, or steel; plated with nickle or chromium. They can easily be machined or reshaped (or often interchanged between models/brands) as required. If you burn them out a lot then it's worth fabbing your own in batches.
 
Properly cleaning and tinning (and re-tinning) your tips is essential; it makes the soldering easier and extends tip life considerably. Otherwise the tip gets coated in oxides and oils: solder won't adhere, heat transfer sucks, and the tip surface corrodes. If you're just starting then it's worth reading a few guides and practicing, practicing, practicing on a few pieces of junk before actually soldering anything valuable.
 
The "best" temperature setting depends on many factors, foremost:
- the size, shape, mass and density of the solder joints
- exact alloy composition of existing solder and new solder
  (standard 60/40(183-190C), 50/50 (185-215C), or eutectic 63/37 (183C) rosin-core soft solders are ideal for 99% of electronics, lead-free crap is also available)
- characteristics of the soldering iron
- personal preference.
 
Any questions?
« Last Edit: Mon, 13 September 2010, 22:56:59 by Konrad »

Offline Konrad

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 13 September 2010, 23:08:10 »
The OP's CircuitSpecialists "Hakko" looks good enough for non-professional use.
 
Weller tips aren't very expensive in small quantities.

Offline Konrad

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 13 September 2010, 23:42:55 »
Who needs to turn 'em off?  Quality is probably a nice solid 5/10.  CircuitSpecialists is known for vending binned items.  (Although all I've ever bought from them are colour cystals and a UVEPROM shoebox, lol.  Their test equipment is overpriced.)
 
Yeah, nonstandard tips would be an issue for many people.

Offline RickyJ

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  • Location: Victoria, BC
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« Reply #27 on: Wed, 13 October 2010, 20:25:34 »
Quote from: ripster;223026
Just get a Weller.  Lots of tips available.  Will last a lifetime.  Most importantly get one with automatic turn off so you don't burn down the house.

I use a WES51.
Show Image


This.

I've used my WES51 for about 6 years now, from wiring cars to production surface mount PCB work.  I've got multiple tips for it, they're pretty cheap at Fry's in the US (expensive in Canada, stocked up the last time I was south of the border), but I haven't worn one out yet.  I can hand-solder 0603-sized SMD components with ease, and super-fine pitched ICs.

I use 700°F for everyday leaded soldering/desoldering.  I drop it down to 650 for delicate leaded work, and up it to 750 for leaded work with heavy traces/mass or for lead-free work.
Currently GMMK Pro: lubed 68g U4T, FR4 plate, extra gaskets, etc

Offline kps

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« Reply #28 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 10:01:44 »
Quote from: Lanx;220678
what about this?
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1283862278&sr=1-1
i have no knowledge of soldering irons or nothing, but really want to get one, googling csi station 1a, i saw a few mentions of this and if you buy the csi station1a it's 12bucks shipping, so this amazon one is basically the same price but digital? looks japanesey too!


I have one. It's a Hakko clone, just as it looks, and takes Hakko-compatible tips and elements. I suggest the analog dial version (936 clone) instead, since setting the temperature with up/down buttons is slow.

My other iron is a WTCPT. The Weller is a tool you can pass on to your grandchildren; the Aoyue is one you can throw away without pain when something better comes along.

Offline Shawn Stanford

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« Reply #29 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 11:10:59 »
Okay, this weekend for the first time in my life I had a need to solder. I had to fix the jack on a pair of Bose headphones. I picked up a new jack at Radio Shack and a $5 soldering iron at Harbor Freight and went at it in my kitchen over a bamboo cutting board.

First: I got it, although there were a few moments when I didn't think I would. A couple things I noticed:

1. I need one of those clippy robo-arm things to hold the work. I only have so many fingers and duct tape can only do so much.

2. The clippy robo-arm thingy needs to have a magnifying glass attached. My eyes are not getting any better.

3. I need some advice on how to do this.

I didn't go into it thinking, "How hard could it be?" I knew it would be tricky. The hard part turned out to be manipulating the solder. I couldn't figure out how to get it to reliably pool on the wire/connection point. A lot of the time it would just form a little ball and roll the hell away. Very frustrating!

So: "F*ing soldering. How does it work?"
The Brat Prince of COBOL

Offline kriminal

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« Reply #30 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 14:04:47 »
thnx for this thread i'll soon be purchasing that weller
Geekhacked Filco FKBN87M/EB modified with Brown, black and blue cherries, doubleshot keycaps
Deck KBA-BL82 with Black cherries
Cherry G84-4100LCMDK-0 Cherry ML switches
Cherry G80-8200hpdus-2 Brown cherries
IBM Lexmark 51G8572 Model M Keyboard
Geekhacked Siig Minitouch KB1948
IBM Model M Mini 1397681

Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #31 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 14:37:52 »
Quote from: ripster;235469
I just fixed a Nikon Coolscan V (no longer available) using $2 in parts and my trusty Weller WES50.

Those little SMT IR Emitter buggers on membranes were no problem for it's sheer awesomeness.

Cherry MX Blue for scale.
Show Image


I fixed a Canon Rebel XTi last week with mine.  A screw inside the case came out and shorted the main logic PCB, blew the main surface mount fuse from the battery.  The fuse is 1.60x0.813mm (0.063x0.032"), size 0603 in surface-mount standards.  In the red circle in the following pic:



Didn't even have to switch from my daily-driver ETH tip for that one.  For fine stuff, the pitch of those IC's or way finer, I use my ETK tip.  Good flux and good desoldering braid helps for the super fine stuff, tiny Atmel Atmega chips and the like.

For soldering on membranes, I dumb down the temp to 650°F, put good flux on the contacts, put a bit of solder on the tip, and just touch the leg on the membrane.  The old Volkswagen instrument cluster flexible circuit membranes I fix are way more temperature sensitive than the thick stuff in printers/scanners/etc, it's pretty silly!
Currently GMMK Pro: lubed 68g U4T, FR4 plate, extra gaskets, etc

Offline J888www

  • Thread Starter
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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 14:54:40 »
Quote from: ripster;235574
You talking about the one in the OP?   I wonder if he ever bought one.

I got the CSI ESD safe Model No 2901 Lead-Free Soldering station, that's what the box, on the desk, reads. I can't remember the OP, bad memory recall, so not sure which model I was blabbering.
Lol, at first, I didn't recall it was my OP until I checked the 1st page. Old age does wonders for the Soul, it lets you forget things.
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
Thank you all in GH for reading.

Keyboards & Pointing Devices :-
[/FONT]One Too Many[/COLOR]

Offline J888www

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« Reply #33 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 15:10:44 »
Probably, knowing little ol' me, I'll forget to turn it off.
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
Thank you all in GH for reading.

Keyboards & Pointing Devices :-
[/FONT]One Too Many[/COLOR]

Offline wap32

  • Posts: 60
Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 17:41:13 »
I've been using an Antex 25W regular soldering iron for about 4.5 years and so far it has worked flawlessly.
Tips are readily available at Farnell or directly from the manufacturer.

Quote from: RickyJ;235580
I fixed a Canon Rebel XTi last week with mine.  A screw inside the case came out and shorted the main logic PCB, blew the main surface mount fuse from the battery.  The fuse is 1.60x0.813mm (0.063x0.032"), size 0603 in surface-mount standards.  In the red circle in the following pic:

Show Image


Didn't even have to switch from my daily-driver ETH tip for that one.  For fine stuff, the pitch of those IC's or way finer, I use my ETK tip.  Good flux and good desoldering braid helps for the super fine stuff, tiny Atmel Atmega chips and the like.

For soldering on membranes, I dumb down the temp to 650°F, put good flux on the contacts, put a bit of solder on the tip, and just touch the leg on the membrane.  The old Volkswagen instrument cluster flexible circuit membranes I fix are way more temperature sensitive than the thick stuff in printers/scanners/etc, it's pretty silly!


0603 can be a pain to solder! I've had to replace a similar fuse on my ThinkPad T61.
The problem wasn't so much removing/soldering the fuse as it was not touching the other SMD's around it.
Used a 0.5mm tip and with plenty flux everything went well.


(look for the little guy with the 'F' mark, that's the one I had to replace)

EDIT: forgot an important note. I've found that for SMD work, a good pair of tweezers is almost as important as a good soldering iron, they can really make a huge difference.
Even for regular, non surface mount soldering, good tweezers can be very useful.
I have used both Lindstrom and VOMM tweezers and can really recommend either one.
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 October 2010, 17:50:12 by wap32 »

Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #35 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 20:40:48 »
Hand soldering 0603's is cake next to placing 200 of them on a board too tightly packed for labels, after placing 400 tiny dots of solder paste, then putting the whole board in the soldering oven without disturbing any of them. :lol:

Desoldering and soldering 0603's with a generic iron is quite commendable though! :D

I spent about $15 on my tweezers from Digikey, the points are sharp enough to prick your finger and draw blood without feeling it.  Another good tool for SMT work is a precision flat-head screwdriver for holding the SMD component down while you solder the ends, otherwise it can stick to the solder on your tip or get moved around while you're trying to solder.

My small Cooper/Weller needlenose pliers and flush snips are also right up there on my list of great investments, they cost me $30 each locally but they've survived ~8 years of constant torture.
Currently GMMK Pro: lubed 68g U4T, FR4 plate, extra gaskets, etc

Offline wap32

  • Posts: 60
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« Reply #36 on: Tue, 19 October 2010, 03:44:36 »
Quote from: RickyJ;235730
Hand soldering 0603's is cake next to placing 200 of them on a board too tightly packed for labels, after placing 400 tiny dots of solder paste, then putting the whole board in the soldering oven without disturbing any of them. :lol:

Desoldering and soldering 0603's with a generic iron is quite commendable though! :D


Wow, that's got to take steady hands, but sounds like a tedious procedure!
Replacing that 0603 fuse was challenging enough for me.

Quote from: RickyJ;235730
I spent about $15 on my tweezers from Digikey, the points are sharp enough to prick your finger and draw blood without feeling it.  Another good tool for SMT work is a precision flat-head screwdriver for holding the SMD component down while you solder the ends, otherwise it can stick to the solder on your tip or get moved around while you're trying to solder.

My small Cooper/Weller needlenose pliers and flush snips are also right up there on my list of great investments, they cost me $30 each locally but they've survived ~8 years of constant torture.


Indeed. Can't stress enough how much of a difference it makes having quality tools.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #37 on: Tue, 19 October 2010, 12:03:57 »
so should i be getting the hakko csi/clone maybe the op mentioned or the wellwer 51? i think i'll be soldering for a bit since this keyboard modding is getting cool, time to retire ye oldly radio shack.

Offline kriminal

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« Reply #38 on: Tue, 19 October 2010, 12:47:46 »
Quote from: Lanx;235987
so should i be getting the hakko csi/clone maybe the op mentioned or the wellwer 51? i think i'll be soldering for a bit since this keyboard modding is getting cool, time to retire ye oldly radio shack.


indeed been itching to retire my "shack" stock solder iron for a while.
Geekhacked Filco FKBN87M/EB modified with Brown, black and blue cherries, doubleshot keycaps
Deck KBA-BL82 with Black cherries
Cherry G84-4100LCMDK-0 Cherry ML switches
Cherry G80-8200hpdus-2 Brown cherries
IBM Lexmark 51G8572 Model M Keyboard
Geekhacked Siig Minitouch KB1948
IBM Model M Mini 1397681

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
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« Reply #39 on: Tue, 19 October 2010, 13:10:52 »
the op's solder station with link has a bunch of tips for that clone/hakko. Any indication of which tips i should buy?
    0.8mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-0.8D)
   1mm Single Flat 40° Tip (KD-M-1C)
   1.2mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-1.2D)
   1.6mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-1.6D)
   2mm Single Flat 40° Tip (KD-M-2C)
   2.4mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-2.4D)
   3mm Single Flat 40° Tip (KD-M-3C)
   3.2mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-3.2D)
   4mm Single Flat 40° Tip (KD-M-4C)
   Conicle Fine Point Tip (KD-M-1)
   Conicle Fine Point Tip (KD-M-B)
   Long Conicle Fine Point Tip (KD-M-LB)

these are all the ones that the op's linked, i really have no idea on this area, and as further proof, i'm still using the radio shack one so like just say which ones to grab bag (cuz shipping is painful, 12bucks) i'd just like to grab a bunch of tips now and basically never think about it ever again.

oh and which ones would i use for desoldering too? (or it doesn't matter?) losta cherries to desolder.

Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #40 on: Tue, 19 October 2010, 13:26:53 »
You're killing me Ripster, reading that was like watching my friends try to solder wires.  I've got a DC/AC inverter for my station for when I'm working on cars out of an extension cord's reach.  Most important part of soldering for car stereo stuff is making sure that there's no strands poking out (good clean iron and solder works wonders), second most important is keeping the splices as short as possible so the wires can still flex when you're putting the deck into the dash.

For the price, you'll be fine doing amateur stuff with that CSI iron.  Fry's has the Weller WES51 for $95, which is normal for that station in the US.  Mine cost me $150cdn through Digikey (still cheaper than it was locally), so don't go there for it.  Two of the biggest pluses for that Weller is the lighter/smaller iron, which makes a huge difference using it for anything (tiny stuff especially), and the availability of the Weller tips for when you need something new fast for the project you're working on.

I wouldn't bother with the digital display versions at all, there's just no point unless you're a production line solder-monkey.  I did somehow break the knob off my Weller when it was in my tool bag, but I could still adjust it with a screwdriver (sits at 700°F 99% of the time anyways), and Weller sent me a replacement knob for FREE.
Currently GMMK Pro: lubed 68g U4T, FR4 plate, extra gaskets, etc

Offline kps

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« Reply #41 on: Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:33:53 »
Quote from: Lanx;236017
the op's solder station with link has a bunch of tips for that clone/hakko. Any indication of which tips i should buy?

Keep in mind that since that station is a Hakko clone, you might want to spend the extra couple dollars each for actual Hakko tips.

Quote
oh and which ones would i use for desoldering too? (or it doesn't matter?) losta cherries to desolder.


Keys are coarse -- I'd say the 1.6mm would do you well there. Get a couple 1.2mm for general-purpose though-hole or wire soldering (i.e. the one you leave on and never think about again), a 0.8mm for the odd finer work, and a long conical tip in case you want to try the fuse replacement that's all the rage these days.

You'll also need a solder sucker for desoldering if you don't have one already.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #42 on: Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:48:02 »
yea i have the desolder pump that pops up the piston to suck, so i should invest in hakko tips instead? i mean maybe i'm just thinking tips are tips, but are these tips just like how high end tweezers are? cuz like my fiancee buys high end tweezerman and other 30$ tweezers and i see the difference myself, compared to like a 5$ loreal one (which i use for helping me solder lol).

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #43 on: Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:05:53 »
Cheap tweezers are cheap tweezers, you get what you pay for at the dollar store.  But you don't need to pay $30 to get good tweezers.  Cheap is different from inexpensive.
 
Incidentally, good electronics toolage (and cute chicks) can be found at your local makeup aisle.  Not only decent tweezers but also "eyebrow papers" (fine-grade abrasive emery strips), lint-free chamois swabs (inexpensive) nail polish remover (solvents!), nail polish (automotive-grade polyurethane-based paints).
 
Soldering tips can be reshaped as desired, within limits, just be careful to tin them properly immediately after filing/grinding the metal.  The most common tips are "chisel" and "point" styles, figure out which you prefer and how you use them and then you'll have a better idea about what sorts and variations of tips you should buy.
 
"Tweezer" (or "claw") style soldering tools are a bit overkill for casual/hobby soldering use.  A good investment if you plan to mass-produce items with tiny SMT parts.  Even then you can use vacuum pickup tools or specially-shaped hand tweezers to place the parts, at less cost.
 
Vacuum bulb or sucker tools are used for desoldering operations.  Good to have, but no need to go overboard on cost/quality unless you plan to do a lot of soldering or make a lot of mistakes.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #44 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 07:03:46 »
doing some google detective work and it seems the op's solder station is made by the same chinese company as aoyue so i'm thinking maybe i'll just buy a real japanese one. the hakko 936 but then i find out it should be replaced by the hakko fx888, we just don't have it and the fx888 actually looks cool but overseas only atm.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #45 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 12:47:44 »
hakko 936 it is 100bucks+ the brass cleaner thing.

Offline didjamatic

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« Reply #46 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 14:53:43 »
Just twist tie a bodily appendage to the cord so when you get up to leave you'll be reminded to unplug it.
IBM F :: IBM M :: Northgate :: Cherry G80 :: Realforce :: DAS 4

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #47 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 15:41:25 »
Quote from: didjamatic;239575
Just twist tie a bodily appendage to the cord so when you get up to leave you'll be reminded to unplug it.

Yeah, until you pull the unit off the table and the iron falls right on your crotch.  I guess you'll still be reminded, though.


Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #48 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 15:56:39 »
Quote from: ripster;239576
Or buy a Weller.


+1

The blinking light at temp is great, and so is the auto-shutoff.
Currently GMMK Pro: lubed 68g U4T, FR4 plate, extra gaskets, etc

Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
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« Reply #49 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 16:16:10 »
My girlfriend ordered me a 936 for my birthday. Now I just have to wait for my birthday... -_-
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution