geekhack

geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: hayasaka on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:46:36

Title: [IC] 03/07/23 Prototypes, Sound Test, Design Changes pf F13 TKL
Post by: hayasaka on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:46:36
Updated Post

Contents:
1. Introduction
2. Specifications
3. Simple Renders
4. Weight Design
5. Plate & Layouts
6. Prototypes
7. Links

Hello, late update due to... life happening, but excited to share these updates!

Specifications:
8 degree typing angle.
22mm front height (EKH = 24.5mm)
F13 TKL layout with ISO and tsangan support.
ESD protection through the C3 Unified Daughterboard
Centred USB-C
Adhesive Poron Gasket mount
OR
Sandwich O-Ring top mount (Subject to change to just be top mounted)
VIA compatibility


Hot-swap has now been added, standard ANSI layout.
PCB is designed by me, south-facing and will not have any RGB or LED support.


Planned Materials:
Aluminium 6063 (Top and Bottom)
Stainless Steel 303, Mirror Finish (Weight and Midsection)

Estimated Price: $500 - $600

Length: 364mm
Width: 138mm
Height (Highest Point): 40.7mm
Weight: ~2.6kg (~5.7lbs) not fully assembled

Top Bezel: 10mm
Side Bezels: 7.5mm
Bottom Bezel: 8.2mm

(https://i.imgur.com/pXgCZIW.png)(https://i.imgur.com/jXciQ7R.png)
(Exploded SE Version shown, will not be in production)

Current Weight Design
This is the current weight design. What the current weight design will look like and the finish will be bead blasted: here (https://i.imgur.com/RAb181K.jpg).
(https://i.imgur.com/P9LS2qg.png)


Plate & Layouts
(https://i.imgur.com/hOlnX0q.png)(https://i.imgur.com/dOSPfru.png)

The current plan for plate materials will be: Brass, Aluminium, PC
(https://i.imgur.com/0qNHhW9.jpg)


Prototypes:

2 rounds of prototypes have finished, as there is an additional cost & waste to creating a new anodization pool for prototypes with custom colours anodization chips will be used to represent the custom colours. At this current moment, I have decided to commit to a blue and green variant, though red will be reconsidered in the near future.
(Left: picture from production, Right: picture from me)
(https://i.imgur.com/nq2nm1A.png) (https://i.imgur.com/UbhRC0f.jpg)

Prototype 1 Images Gallery Here (https://imgur.com/a/XfpmkSK) and Here (https://imgur.com/a/NGjxoDm)
(https://i.imgur.com/TpDgy97.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/XZObhbY.jpg)

Prototype 2 Images Gallery Here (https://imgur.com/a/TkWF1WB) (yet to be edited)
Visible difference from V1 and V2
(https://i.imgur.com/Ii40LaN.png)

Assembly midsection change (Top is previous, Bottom is new)
(https://i.imgur.com/qnVjtIn.png)

An SE proto has also been made, reviewed, and I have decided against in pursuing this variant.

MOQ will range from 300-500.

Sound Test:
It isn't the best of sound tests, but should be the gist of what it is. I will create a new and more consistent sound test in the near future.

Renders with all colors and metal combos here:
Brass (https://imgur.com/a/mmPMdvP)
Stainless Steel (https://imgur.com/a/eDaXF9C)

Required changes:
I will have to discuss the supplier for the carrying case, as the current mould is pretty tight and an incredibly snug fit. The change should allow for easier insert and removal of the board, and the addition of cloths if need-be.
Please comment and share! I am dedicated to make this keyboard the best it can be and would love to know your thoughts and opinions. :)

Collab(s):

I will be working with FJ Laboratories for the PCB production processes.

Links
All recent updates have gone through the discord.
Discord (https://discord.gg/u5VUNve9Zf)
Instagram (https://instagram.com/appakb66) 

Special thanks to Hadi (33c) and ai03 (atelier) discord's for making this possible.
Signature:
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=114370.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/hMEutMo.png[/img][/url]
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: hayasaka on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:47:30
Update Log

27/08/2021

29/08/2021
I have made a few updates in my discord of changes and will be sharing them here.

04/09/2021
I have done quite a number of changes and will be sharing them here, scroll up to see the previous look.
New IC Form regarding the new changes, colours, etc.
New IC Form (https://forms.gle/Qum2Be7WnJDshSYE9)


14/03/2022
Pictures from the manufacturer and what is to be expected:

For the lastest updates, please join the discord (https://discord.gg/sqQYPnzYmY)!

[/list]
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: missterrical on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:52:48
reserved
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: FishyKeebs on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:53:07
I love the design, scared for the price
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: missterrical on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:59:37
sad no wkl but i like
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Surefoot on Fri, 27 August 2021, 06:35:28
Very nice profile ! Brass plate option would be nice too.
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: blaqbern on Fri, 27 August 2021, 07:14:10
Quote from: FishyKeebs on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:53:07
scared for the price
I agree. This design is going to be very expensive to machine.
The super-thin walls on the left and right edges of the mid piece may not be possible at all, but If they can be done, it’ll be pricey.
The piano key design above the arrow cluster looks neat. But the bevel on the keys will be cost-prohibitive. Consider changing that to an etching, or removing the bevels.
Also, just the general complexity of the design means more machine time, which means higher costs. You’ll need to bake-in as many optimizations as you can to get this design down to a price that people are willing to pay.
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: c0d3r on Fri, 27 August 2021, 08:12:50
This is amazing
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Bachoo on Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:00:23
The board looks nice, but I can't really gather a solid opinion on this because of lack of prototypes. Have you quoted out to a manu, or have a target price for this in your mind?
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Udyrstruidor on Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:33:16
I am in love with the design, please make it happen! If the price is on point I will surely get one
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: hali on Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:51:59
absolutely ridiculous accent piece above the arrows
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Entity. on Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:56:48
Love the design, I cant wait for this! :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: iaman on Fri, 27 August 2021, 10:29:00
Quote from: hayasaka on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:46:36
Reason being: I don't believe it fits the theme of this board and I have never seen a RGB piano.
smh
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 27 August 2021, 10:33:59
looks expensive
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Rocket on Fri, 27 August 2021, 10:58:15
This board looks unique, special but expensive. I like it, designs above the arrow keys on TKL's are :chefkiss:
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: .jan on Fri, 27 August 2021, 12:32:09
reserved
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: SDKCAMPING on Fri, 27 August 2021, 13:46:07
it looks unique butwayy too busy for me, reminds me of chinese gaming hardware on amazon without the rgb, not sure how expensive it will be but people seem to be saying it will be expensive
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: hayasaka on Fri, 27 August 2021, 16:02:55
Quote from: blaqbern on Fri, 27 August 2021, 07:14:10
Quote from: FishyKeebs on Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:53:07
scared for the price
I agree. This design is going to be very expensive to machine.
The super-thin walls on the left and right edges of the mid piece may not be possible at all, but If they can be done, it’ll be pricey.
The piano key design above the arrow cluster looks neat. But the bevel on the keys will be cost-prohibitive. Consider changing that to an etching, or removing the bevels.
Also, just the general complexity of the design means more machine time, which means higher costs. You’ll need to bake-in as many optimizations as you can to get this design down to a price that people are willing to pay.

Hey, thanks for the concern. Upon designing this board, pricing was the number one issue I had in mind, this will be something I will be working on to minimize as much as possible. As such, the piano keys above the arrow clusters will go for now. The option will still remain if there is enough interest in it for an SE, however, in the mean time it will be replaced with an etching of the current design from the weight.

The thin walls on the side bezels were noted upon designing too. There is actually space between the outermost bezel to the inside, so it is thicker than it visually looks. However, it may not be enough and in the end I may have to increase bezel size. I have yet to discuss with manufacturers, I can only fully confirm necessary changes the moment I do.
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: hayasaka on Fri, 27 August 2021, 16:08:03
Quote from: Bachoo on Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:00:23
The board looks nice, but I can't really gather a solid opinion on this because of lack of prototypes. Have you quoted out to a manu, or have a target price for this in your mind?

Understandable, I have already considered a few design changes which will lower the price with an easier manufacturing process, which is why I have held off on prototypes. I have not yet gotten quotes from manu's yet, but the most realistic target pricing I believe, will be from the (USD) $500-$600 range. With the best bet of $450-$550. 
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Kinesiologist on Fri, 27 August 2021, 17:49:30
I am in favor of changing the design above the arrow cluster. Is it possible to replace the design with an etched phrase "Maestro" (in fancy calligraphy font)?

Either way Im a sucker for TKLs so will definitely keep an eye on this.
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: hayasaka on Fri, 27 August 2021, 19:25:41
Quote from: Kinesiologist on Fri, 27 August 2021, 17:49:30
I am in favor of changing the design above the arrow cluster. Is it possible to replace the design with an etched phrase "Maestro" (in fancy calligraphy font)?

Either way Im a sucker for TKLs so will definitely keep an eye on this.

Interesting idea, I'll keep that in mind.
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: //gainsborough on Fri, 27 August 2021, 22:03:52
this is super cool!  I'm also in favor of changing the arrow cluster design.  Maybe a crescendo symbol?  I do like your creativity with what you have, though!
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: FamilyJoule924 on Sat, 28 August 2021, 04:44:33
 https://www.google.com/search?q=rgb+piano&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS923US923&sxsrf=AOaemvL-GoJt7k_AD5aBzYbVoz_G1a7LFQ:1630143828236&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwiX68H-ttPyAhU-MVkFHccpDZ4Q_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1679&bih=850&dpr=2


 :(
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Old_Duck on Sat, 28 August 2021, 14:40:25
Maybe I'm just crazy, but I like how the white render looks flipped over. Imagine putting the switches on that side. The cascading style of cuts look classy, but is easily missed because it is on the underside. All that extra manufacturing CNC passes just to be hidden underneath. Bear with me a little longer, if you put switches on this side, then maybe replace the weight with wood trim such as ebony or mahogany. If you are going piano themed, may as well incorporate wood with a glossy finish right?
Title: Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: deex on Sat, 28 August 2021, 19:11:27
black and ss looks amazing god damn
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: Hotswap + collab pf F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Violinist on Sun, 29 August 2021, 17:55:02
Nice design! But as a musician I have to say that the free floating notes above the arrow cluster looks pretty silly. It takes away from the cool piano image and instead of a serious "homage" it seems like a souvenir item. Also, if you could add "presence" or "grandeur" by designing a grand piano instead of a "baby grand". Just my two cents.
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: Hotswap + collab pf F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Violinist on Sun, 29 August 2021, 18:04:30
Not to mention that the piano image is backwards, you cannot leave it as is! Friendly advice. I don't mean that the piano is just facing the wrong way, it is printed backwards. 
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: Hotswap + collab pf F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: HugoChowsky on Sun, 29 August 2021, 22:41:39
F13 WK with hotswap? Count me in! Absolutely hate those WKL trend! WK is LIFE  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: Hotswap + collab pf F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: hayasaka on Mon, 30 August 2021, 02:52:11
Quote from: Violinist on Sun, 29 August 2021, 18:04:30
Not to mention that the piano image is backwards, you cannot leave it as is! Friendly advice. I don't mean that the piano is just facing the wrong way, it is printed backwards.

Thanks for catching that cause I certainly didn't. I'll be changing it.
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: Hotswap + collab pf F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: sndb on Thu, 02 September 2021, 22:57:00
Quote from: HugoChowsky on Sun, 29 August 2021, 22:41:39
F13 WK with hotswap? Count me in! Absolutely hate those WKL trend! WK is LIFE  :thumb:

Yeah, while it's entirely possible, completely overhauling the default desktop/WM navigation hotkeys in nearly every distro or window manager that exists, just to get rid of a key so a keyboard rarely seen by others looks a little different....

I don't mind and sometimes even use both software and hard key locks for meta if gaming, but I've used & read the i3/sway and other configs used by people on WKL daily drivers it's just irritating to move meta functionality to Alt and then remap Alt to ??? and so on and so on.
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: Hotswap + collab pf F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Dinerenblanc on Fri, 03 September 2021, 03:19:36
I like the concept, but its a bit overdesigned. The literal piano key silhouette above the arrow keys is a little too on the nose. When paying homage, you should aim to suggest, not simply imitate. Also, I'm not so sure about the all hard corners on its base. When i think of a grand piano, I see a spacious silhouette with exaggerated curves accentuated by hard angles. Your design is a bit cramped, with the curves being too understated, to the point where all the layering of hard angles became the focus, making it look more like a gamer aesthetic than anything. With that said, I look forward to revisions. It's a good idea.
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: Hotswap + collab pf F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: Garner on Fri, 03 September 2021, 06:23:35
I'm all for unique and bold keyboard designs and just want to encourage you to stick to your design visions and not remove vital design elements only for the sake of cutting costs.

It's one thing to optimize the design to reduce the machining costs but it should not come at the cost of the design itself. If someone wants a more exotic designed keyboard they should expect to pay a bit more as well (within reasonable margins).

I don't think it's overdesigned, I think it's unique and makes a statement on the desk. Maybe not the most accurate design for a piano themed board in my opinion but since there already are plenty of minimalistic designs (similar-boards-with-different-weight-engravings-to-tell-them-apart) I just want you to keep up the creativity and keep thinking outside the box like you already are. :)  GL!
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: Hotswap + collab pf F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
Post by: hayasaka on Sat, 04 September 2021, 10:42:21
Quote from: Dinerenblanc on Fri, 03 September 2021, 03:19:36
I like the concept, but its a bit overdesigned. The literal piano key silhouette above the arrow keys is a little too on the nose. When paying homage, you should aim to suggest, not simply imitate. Also, I'm not so sure about the all hard corners on its base. When i think of a grand piano, I see a spacious silhouette with exaggerated curves accentuated by hard angles. Your design is a bit cramped, with the curves being too understated, to the point where all the layering of hard angles became the focus, making it look more like a gamer aesthetic than anything. With that said, I look forward to revisions. It's a good idea.
This has been noted and changes have been made listed in the update log.
Title: Re: [IC] UPDATE: DESIGN CHANGES, update log, new IC form. pf F13 TKL
Post by: Violinist on Sat, 11 September 2021, 14:38:28
The changes look nice! I admire you for taking constructive criticism so well : )  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] 14/03/22 Brass + New Colour Updates, Design Changes pf F13 TKL
Post by: YTI on Tue, 12 April 2022, 15:43:58
Lovely.
Title: Re: [IC] 14/03/22 Brass + New Colour Updates, Design Changes pf F13 TKL
Post by: milka158 on Wed, 13 April 2022, 15:50:01
very nice