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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: NovaRMK on Mon, 04 October 2021, 11:53:32

Title: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Mon, 04 October 2021, 11:53:32

(https://i.imgur.com/lAoEawj.png)

WELCOME TO MIAMI!
A keycap set inspired by that one show all the 80s kids watched.



Before I continue, I'd like to address a few things first:

-As many of you know, no, this is not my original design. This set is based on the GMK Miami and GMK Miami Nights colorways. I decided to run this set after I and another designer, KucherenkoZZZ (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=123674) were both told on separate occasions by Originative Co and GMK that we would not be able to re-run Miami Nights, even though Originative is not the original designer of the colorway. But I still wanted to bring it back into the community because these colorways haven't been ran in years. So, if GMK won't let you run it, then what do you do? You switch profiles/manufacturers.

-Why KAT? Well, because... why not? One of the main reasons I'm choosing to run with KAT is due to the way Keyreative does their MOQ system, where a certain amount of total keys has to be ordered rather than a certain amount of kits. This favors sets with a larger number of kits, which allows for wider compatability across different layouts and regions.

-The timeline. Yes, I know, it is notoriously difficult to communicate with Keyreative. I don't even have a vague timeline as of now, especially not without input from Vendors, but my goal is to have this set in groupbuy before the start of Q2 2022.



(https://i.imgur.com/bsVdkZi.png)

Groupbuy Date:
TBD

Vendors:
US - TBD
Canada - TBD
EU - TBD
UK - TBD
Oceania - TBD
China - TBD
SEA - TBD
Any other region vendors are welcome!

Pricing:
TBD

Colors:
GMK TU2
GMK MG1
GMK GE1
GMK CR


IC FORM
https://forms.gle/QyYoo2yJdD7F2piP7


(https://i.imgur.com/3zuxfts.png)
(Renders have been compressed to comply with Imgur's size requirements, please excuse any quality issues)

(https://i.imgur.com/HXSpdaQ.png)(https://i.imgur.com/FUjPBvJ.png)
D60-Lite by KBDFans

(https://i.imgur.com/BvGaum4.png)(https://i.imgur.com/FbCvMJW.png)
Ikki68 Aurora by Wuque Studio

(https://i.imgur.com/fsSExNh.png)(https://i.imgur.com/77rx2RE.png)
Whimsy by prkns

(https://i.imgur.com/CDCCsyw.png)(https://i.imgur.com/PB2hrQ7.png)
Paragon by Artemis

(https://i.imgur.com/OEToH7Y.png)(https://i.imgur.com/BlHoRK0.png)
Iron 165 by Smith + Rune

(https://i.imgur.com/Kc6wmGv.png)(https://i.imgur.com/FemH3mN.png)
KBD8X by KBDFans

(https://i.imgur.com/ZPUaSA7.png)(https://i.imgur.com/EzUzW3Z.png)
M60-A by Rama Works

(https://i.imgur.com/jZHNVkw.png)(https://i.imgur.com/imm0oay.png)
Portico by The Key Company

[Disclaimer]
Please keep in mind that renders are only an approximation of what the final product will look like. Different lighting conditions will affect the way colors are displayed in the renders.


(https://i.imgur.com/DMMXi3u.png)

MIAMI
More

(https://i.imgur.com/XLDJtls.png)
Miami - Latin Alphas

(https://i.imgur.com/BZnlWg7.png)
Miami - Katakana Alphas

(https://i.imgur.com/uFnB2nt.png)
Miami - Hangul Alphas

(https://i.imgur.com/FrcjkCs.png)
Miami - Colemak Alphas

(https://i.imgur.com/f9pHS0U.png)
Miami  - Text Mods

(https://i.imgur.com/lEIxR0s.png)
Miami - Icon Mods

(https://i.imgur.com/jIXBgmA.png)
Miami - 40s Mods

(https://i.imgur.com/iTQGAQH.png)
Miami - Ergo

(https://i.imgur.com/Ofjl3Nq.png)
Miami - Numpad

(https://i.imgur.com/RPHIQO7.png)
Miami - Novelties

(https://i.imgur.com/1R2q0Yd.png)
Miami - Spacebars (forgot to add size labels, will add soon)

(https://i.imgur.com/TgbkpG9.png)
Miami - Iso


MIAMI NIGHTS
More

(https://i.imgur.com/dV1MI5h.png)
Miami Nights- Latin Alphas

(https://i.imgur.com/J4Oynke.png)
Miami Nights - Katakana Alphas

(https://i.imgur.com/Ls3FBkv.png)
Miami Nights - Hangul Alphas

(https://i.imgur.com/ZV4EVVL.png)
Miami Nights - Colemak Alphas

(https://i.imgur.com/oAfd4oC.png)
Miami Nights - Text Mods

(https://i.imgur.com/Xi2j7ug.png)
Miami Nights - Icon Mods

(https://i.imgur.com/XGqVb9d.png)
Miami Nights - 40s Mods

(https://i.imgur.com/KBnxjrA.png)
Miami Nights - Ergo

(https://i.imgur.com/vYj6nTX.png)
Miami Nights - Numpad

(https://i.imgur.com/Hj3pVOs.png)
Miami Nights - Novelties

(https://i.imgur.com/Vyel3KW.png)
Miami Nights - Spacebars (forgot to add size labels, will add soon)

(https://i.imgur.com/P1Ld4OH.png)
Miami Nights - Iso





(https://i.imgur.com/ZTWP52B.png)

COMING SOON


(https://i.imgur.com/F2FBsM9.png)

COMING SOON


(https://i.imgur.com/pp7si6V.png)

(https://www.freepnglogos.com/uploads/discord-logo-png/discord-logo-logodownload-download-logotipos-1.png) (https://discord.gg/Nw346Dh8c2)(http://assets.stickpng.com/images/580b57fcd9996e24bc43c521.png) (https://www.instagram.com/novarmk)


SIGNATURE

Please consider adding the signature if you want to support this set. Thank you!

Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=114846.0][img height=120]https://i.imgur.com/lAoEawj.png[/img][/url]
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Mon, 04 October 2021, 11:55:03
Oct. 4

Oct. 5
Small thank you to kidviddy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=110521) for pointing out the errors in the Katakana kits



Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Laur on Mon, 04 October 2021, 12:01:12
interesting, nice spin on a classic.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: kidviddy on Mon, 04 October 2021, 12:16:57
Nice! Couple of comments about the katakana kitting:


Thanks for taking these issues into consideration!
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:14:25
Quote from: kidviddy on Mon, 04 October 2021, 12:16:57
  • You have a ソ legend in place of the ン (on what would be the "Y" key). These two characters are very similar-looking, but the ン is more "horizontal" as opposed to ソ being "vertical". Both the Miami and Miami Nights version of the kit have the same issue.
  • The Miami version of the kit has an R2 ム, but the Miami Nights version does not. Please consider adding this key to the Miami Nights version as well.

Thanks for the input! Not sure how I missed these, I'll be sure to fix it soon  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: joshuarubin on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:23:24
Looks great. Anything with keyreative makes me cringe (to be fair, so do gmk lead times) though. I'm still waiting on Atlantis, which was unilaterally switched to doubleshot. For the light set, I don't really know if regular dye sub or reverse would be needed, can't really tell which is the "light" and which is the "dark" color. For the dark set it seems like it would have to be either reverse dyesub or doubleshot.

 Do you have a feel for which process you'd like to see for this set?
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:32:06
Quote from: joshuarubin on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:23:24
Looks great. Anything with keyreative makes me cringe (to be fair, so do gmk lead times) though. I'm still waiting on Atlantis, which was unilaterally switched to doubleshot. For the light set, I don't really know if regular dye sub or reverse would be needed, can't really tell which is the "light" and which is the "dark" color. For the dark set it seems like it would have to be either reverse dyesub or doubleshot.

 Do you have a feel for which process you'd like to see for this set?

I think the deciding factor is going to come down to Keyreative and their timelines. I'd like the set to be doubleshot, but I totally agree that the condition Keyreative is in can be rather... unappealing. I'd also like to see the quality of the doubleshots before making a decision. It's likely that, as with most KAT/KAM sets, Miami take a while before it reaches groupbuy, so I'm hoping that Atlantis or Mizu will be finished before I have to make a decision.

tl;dr doubleshots are preferred, but it all comes down to Keyreative's timeline and their quality
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Hawkenfreude on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:39:43
I feel you completely on Keyreative double-shot. However, if you are going to run alt-language kits, it will likely be pretty expensive to create all new molds.

Unless you've been told otherwise, I imagine that their newness in the double-shot world means that they likely only have Latin molds, and maybe some icons (something I've actually been trying to find out for the last couple of months). Just something to keep in mind if you opt for double-shot instead of dye sub.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Ella on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:40:56
nice looking set, but running with keyreative is just irresponsible
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: KucherenkoZZZ on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:42:17
Insta buy if it was in cherry profile, maybe JTK for example, just for the sake of F you to Oco
GLWIC
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: hali on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:43:08
missing text 1800 keys
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:44:25
Quote from: Hawkenfreude on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:39:43
I feel you completely on Keyreative double-shot. However, if you are going to run alt-language kits, it will likely be pretty expensive to create all new molds.

Unless you've been told otherwise, I imagine that their newness in the double-shot world means that they likely only have Latin molds, and maybe some icons (something I've actually been trying to find out for the last couple of months). Just something to keep in mind if you opt for double-shot instead of dye sub.

KAT Atlantis also had Hangul and Katakana alpha kits and they're running doubleshot, so I think on that front I should be in the clear. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else would need new molds. I think it's possible to get quotes for both Doubleshot and Dye-Sub, and if there's a significant price difference I'll likely just run dye-sub.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:46:21
Quote from: hali on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:43:08
missing text 1800 keys
Didn't realize that, will add in the next update  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Synergist on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:59:57
Love KAT profile, love Miami Nights, 100% joining this GB.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Hawkenfreude on Mon, 04 October 2021, 14:01:30
Quote from: NovaRMK on Mon, 04 October 2021, 13:44:25

KAT Atlantis also had Hangul and Katakana alpha kits and they're running doubleshot, so I think on that front I should be in the clear. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else would need new molds. I think it's possible to get quotes for both Doubleshot and Dye-Sub, and if there's a significant price difference I'll likely just run dye-sub.

Ah. I was unaware. Cannot keep track of which sets Keyreative switched. That's good to hear.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Evasive on Mon, 04 October 2021, 15:06:11
I'll definitely be in, GWIC!
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: WillyWortel on Mon, 04 October 2021, 17:04:27
Yezz finally a KAT Miami
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Hedgey on Mon, 04 October 2021, 18:38:14
Appreciate the 40's support. 

1 request for an additional key in the 40's kit is a 1.25 R2 CTRL/FN

Some of us don't run tab in that spot lol.   :))
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: question Mark on Tue, 05 October 2021, 03:22:29
I love Miami and Miami Nights, but I'll never join another Keyreative GB again...There are so many other keycap manufacturers, so I don't know why you would voluntarily take the risk with them.

Nonetheless I like to be proven wrong and wish you all the best for the IC and GB!
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Krastoff on Tue, 05 October 2021, 03:48:11
I'm in because I've been eyeing Miami Nights for years. I don't mind waiting to see if Keyreative steps up their game and finds success with their new machines, but if they disappoint further (hope not because KAT looks great), I'll be happy too if this GB switches to another manufacturer.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Tue, 05 October 2021, 09:12:15
Quote from: Krastoff on Tue, 05 October 2021, 03:48:11
I'm in because I've been eyeing Miami Nights for years. I don't mind waiting to see if Keyreative steps up their game and finds success with their new machines, but if they disappoint further (hope not because KAT looks great), I'll be happy too if this GB switches to another manufacturer.

Yes, I'm really hoping that Keyreative is able to pull themselves together. It is entirely possible that in the event that Keyreative fails to reduce their timelines, I'll probably just switch manus/profiles.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: HairyBob on Tue, 05 October 2021, 09:48:31
V nice, time to replace my knockoff miami keys
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: nordhelle on Tue, 05 October 2021, 16:45:40
Cool to see the classic colors in a new profile! Good luck with the IC buddy!  :D
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Zanhana on Tue, 05 October 2021, 17:57:13
if it's at all possible, please make text 40s happen

I filled out the IC form asking for Icon 40s but I'm a dumb dumb and meant to say text 40s

anyway text 40s please
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: William_S_Jones on Tue, 05 October 2021, 19:09:36
Anyway for KAM profile instead or at least for rd 2???

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Wed, 06 October 2021, 09:58:46
Quote from: William_S_Jones on Tue, 05 October 2021, 19:09:36
Anyway for KAM profile instead or at least for rd 2???

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Maybe in the future :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: William_S_Jones on Wed, 06 October 2021, 10:01:33
Quote from: NovaRMK on Wed, 06 October 2021, 09:58:46
Quote from: William_S_Jones on Tue, 05 October 2021, 19:09:36
Anyway for KAM profile instead or at least for rd 2???

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Maybe in the future :thumb:
Thanks, appreciate you, & will be in line for it once it happens!

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: jagger27 on Wed, 06 October 2021, 11:31:36
If this ends up being dyesub perhaps consider a different font that fits the Miami theme better? If KAT Refined works out then this shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Zanhana on Wed, 06 October 2021, 12:13:18
Quote from: jagger27 on Wed, 06 October 2021, 11:31:36
If this ends up being dyesub perhaps consider a different font that fits the Miami theme better? If KAT Refined works out then this shouldn't be a problem.

absolutely not, do you even realize that the OG Miami was made by SP, not GMK? so the idea that a different font would "fit" Miami better is frankly just stupid, the SP-style legends are part of the original 2013 Miami look
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: jagger27 on Wed, 06 October 2021, 14:29:55
Quote from: Zanhana on Wed, 06 October 2021, 12:13:18
absolutely not, do you even realize that the OG Miami was made by SP, not GMK? so the idea that a different font would "fit" Miami better is frankly just stupid, the SP-style legends are part of the original 2013 Miami look

Yeah ok, because there sure were a ton of options in 2013 for keycap manus and the idea was clearly perfect for SP. :rolleyes:

To expand on why I think it doesn't fit, the retro SP-look works best on retro-themed sets. Show me a single computer from the 70s through to the 90s that had anything as bright as this colourway. This set wants a different font, that's all I'm suggesting. Just look at the Windows flag next to the macOS-style option glyph. What the **** is that? It doesn't match at all.

Quote from: Zanhana on Wed, 06 October 2021, 12:13:18
that a different font would "fit" Miami better is frankly just stupid

You can't honestly sit there with a dead serious straight face and tell me that the Miami enter novelty matches the alpha legends. Nope, no way. Ever heard of "font pairing"?

And besides, OP seems intent on doubleshot, and that's fine. Doing that would render the whole font conversation moot for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Zanhana on Thu, 07 October 2021, 11:40:38
Quote from: jagger27 on Wed, 06 October 2021, 14:29:55

Yeah ok, because there sure were a ton of options in 2013 for keycap manus and the idea was clearly perfect for SP. :rolleyes:


the fact remains that, whether a product of design or an accident of circumstance, SP legends *are* the classic Miami legends. (and personally I think the large centered legends fit the bold Miami colors much better than GMK corner legends)

Quote from: jagger27 on Wed, 06 October 2021, 14:29:55

You can't honestly sit there with a dead serious straight face and tell me that the Miami enter novelty matches the alpha legends. Nope, no way. Ever heard of "font pairing"?


it wouldn't fit any better with GMK legends or text mods

but yes, all moot if the set is doubleshot. hoping Keyreative gets their process dialed in well
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Zanhana on Thu, 07 October 2021, 11:42:02
P.S. speaking of KAT doubleshot, is the plan to get samples before GB? (if not, that should be the plan  :thumb:)
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Thu, 07 October 2021, 12:13:04
Quote from: Zanhana on Thu, 07 October 2021, 11:42:02
P.S. speaking of KAT doubleshot, is the plan to get samples before GB? (if not, that should be the plan  :thumb:)
Yes, I am planning to get samples before groupbuy starts
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: dvorcol on Mon, 18 October 2021, 00:19:08
It's great that Miami and Miami Nights both have Colemak alpha kits!  I do have a couple suggestions:


(https://i.postimg.cc/m2VgFb68/Colemak-211017.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tyL660ND/Dvorak-add-on-to-full-alpha-Colemak-211018.png)
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Mon, 18 October 2021, 17:40:48
Quote from: dvorcol on Mon, 18 October 2021, 00:19:08
It's great that Miami and Miami Nights both have Colemak alpha kits!  I do have a couple suggestions:

  • Colemak replaces Caps Lock with Backspace, so add KAT R2 1.75u Backspace.
  • Add Colemak DH & DHm support, as show in the table below.
  • Add Dvorak add-on kits to use in conjunction with Colemak kits.
  • Please clarify if alpha kits support non-homing, or have two types of homing (maybe bar and dish?).

Show Image
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2VgFb68/Colemak-211017.png)


Show Image
(https://i.postimg.cc/tyL660ND/Dvorak-add-on-to-full-alpha-Colemak-211018.png)

I didn't know about some of these, will definitely be implementing them. And yes, the homing keys are bar and dish, sorry for any confusion, I'll be sure to label those soon.

Thanks, Dvorcol  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: gleneston on Mon, 18 October 2021, 21:52:29
I'd love to see some renders of Miami Nights mixed with Standard Miami.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: dvorcol on Tue, 19 October 2021, 00:15:21
Quote from: NovaRMK on Mon, 18 October 2021, 17:40:48
Quote from: dvorcol on Mon, 18 October 2021, 00:19:08
It's great that Miami and Miami Nights both have Colemak alpha kits!  I do have a couple suggestions:

  • Colemak replaces Caps Lock with Backspace, so add KAT R2 1.75u Backspace.
  • Add Colemak DH & DHm support, as show in the table below.
  • Add Dvorak add-on kits to use in conjunction with Colemak kits.
  • Please clarify if alpha kits support non-homing, or have two types of homing (maybe bar and dish?).

Show Image
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2VgFb68/Colemak-211017.png)


Show Image
(https://i.postimg.cc/tyL660ND/Dvorak-add-on-to-full-alpha-Colemak-211018.png)

I didn't know about some of these, will definitely be implementing them. And yes, the homing keys are bar and dish, sorry for any confusion, I'll be sure to label those soon.

Thanks, Dvorcol  :thumb:

I was thinking about it some more.  Looking at Colemak, Colemak DH, and Dvorak layouts in the table below, there are only nine QWERTY keycaps that aren't used by any of the three:
     E, T, I, O, F, J, L, N, and ;:

So using a Colevrak+ kit in combination with the QWERTY Alphas kit might be a better way to cover more alternate layouts.

On the other hand, if Dvorak users are in the minority, then the majority would be stuck with at least 15 Dvorak-only keycaps.  If only there were a way to figure out the relative popularity of alternative layouts among those purchasing this set...

(https://i.postimg.cc/B4m92QhR/00-Keycap-Summary211018-R1full.png)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mbCXRCDx/Colevrak-Plus211018typ.png)
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Zanhana on Tue, 19 October 2021, 17:43:31
Quote from: dvorcol on Tue, 19 October 2021, 00:15:21
So using a Colevrak+ kit in combination with the QWERTY Alphas kit might be a better way to cover more alternate layouts.

yes, Colevrak+ kitting is pretty common—no need to reinvent the wheel here. and yes, with the way Keyreative's MOQ works, it makes way more sense to have a Colevrak+ child kit rather than a standalone Colevrak-only alphas kit.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: alan1216221973 on Fri, 31 December 2021, 00:09:20
any updates on this?
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Krastoff on Wed, 05 January 2022, 12:41:42
Probably waiting to see how the new KAT sets turn out to be, especially the double-shot ones.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: NovaRMK on Thu, 06 January 2022, 16:46:05
Quote from: alan1216221973 on Fri, 31 December 2021, 00:09:20
any updates on this?
Work has been slow, hoping to update the IC within the next month  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: mr_foggy on Tue, 11 January 2022, 19:59:23
kitting and theme is good (my favorite color scheme actually) but the manufacturer... well let's say they didn't earn my respect.
hope for a manu/profile switch.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: ITzNybble on Fri, 04 February 2022, 11:30:40
I am still rocking my DCS Original Miami set! I love seeing how the Miami design is constantly being updated/iterated and put into new profiles! I have never used KAT but would be interested in this. Love the Yellow accents!
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: CraftonosKeyboards on Sat, 05 February 2022, 17:32:55
I line this a lot.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: unwashed_heathen on Tue, 01 March 2022, 13:45:13
Very interested. I love icon mods and the Miami Nights colorway, but I'm hesitant because of the obvious reasons with Keyreative. Would be great if we could see how Atlantis and other KAT sets come out before this moves forward.
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: involuntarysoul on Fri, 22 April 2022, 14:11:42
cannot wait for this set to go live, KAT is by far the most comfortable profile to type on, it sounds great too,
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Das on Wed, 27 April 2022, 22:04:05
100% will buy
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Hedgey on Mon, 18 July 2022, 09:03:06
Quote from: NovaRMK on Thu, 06 January 2022, 16:46:05
Quote from: alan1216221973 on Fri, 31 December 2021, 00:09:20
any updates on this?
Work has been slow, hoping to update the IC within the next month  :thumb:

Just bumping this since KAT Atlantis looks pretty solid so far from the doubleshot side. 
Title: Re: [IC] KAT Miami
Post by: Zanhana on Mon, 18 July 2022, 11:15:19
Quote from: Hedgey on Mon, 18 July 2022, 09:03:06

Just bumping this since KAT Atlantis looks pretty solid so far from the doubleshot side.

pretty solid tactile legends  :))