Author Topic: [IC] UPDATE: DESIGN CHANGES, update log, new IC form. pf F13 TKL  (Read 8182 times)

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Offline hayasaka

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Post has been revised, click more for the old renders. Updates added in log and bottom of post.

Hello everyone.

Introducing:
pf F13 TKL

Contents:
1. Introduction
2. Specifications
3. Design Background
4. Simple Renders
5. Weight Design
6. Plate & Layouts
7. Prototypes (Do not currently exist)
8. Links

Introduction:
Hello, Hayasaka here. I want to introduce a design which I have been working on for the past few months. I've been a lurker within the community for quite some time now and have decided to create a custom board of my own. The main goal of this design was to have something unique while keeping a classy aesthetic. This is the result.

Specifications:
8 degree typing angle.
18mm front height
F13 TKL layout with ISO and tsangan support.
ESD protection through the C3 Unified Daughterboard
Centred USB-C
Adhesive Poron Gasket mount
OR
Sandwich O-Ring top mount
VIA compatibility (planned, to be worked on)

No hot-swap to keep things a bit simpler.
Hot-swap has now been added, standard ANSI layout.
PCB is designed by me, south-facing and will not have any RGB or LED support.
Reason being: I don't believe it fits the theme of this board and I have never seen a RGB piano.

Planned Materials:
Aluminium 6063 (Top and Bottom)
Stainless Steel 303, Mirror Finish (Weight and Midsection)

Ideal target price: $450 - $550
GB Date: TBD
Vendors: TBD

Length: 357mm
Width: 136mm
Height (Highest Point): 36.6mm

Top Bezel: 10mm
Side Bezels: 4mm
Bottom Bezel: 6mm

More
Design Background:
My two main focus points is the classy theme and side profiles. I had to pick a theme which enveloped the two notions. The theme I came up with was a piano. Piano's are keyboards themselves so calling my design "piano" wouldn't suffice. Taking from the theme's origins in Italy, a piano is called "fortepiano" or "pianoforte". After discussion with a few friends pianoforte was a better fit name, and to make it simpler, I stuck with the musical notations of piano and forte which results to: pf.

The original design was a 65% with a mid-right blocker.


(The blocker exists in this position cause I wanted the 3 switches but I use the NK65 Milkshake and every time I want to skip 5 seconds of a YouTube video it either ends the video or scrolls me down to the bottom of the page. This implementation is designed to mitigate that.)

During this design process, there was an influx of 65% boards which did play a role in my decision to change form factor. The main reason for the change was upon realising that a standard ANSI F13 TKL would result in 88 keys, the same as a piano. Thus, form factor changed.

Simple Renders:





I do not have colour specifics at this moment, but the general colours planned will be: black & white (close to the gloss look if possible) and anodized green. If you have suggestions please fill out the IC form.

The piano keys design above the arrow key cluster is still a hit-or-miss for me. An implementation from the original design's blocker, it is stainless steel. I am completely open to removing it entirely; changing it to an engraving; SE only, or something else. Please fill out the IC form if you'd like to see changes.



Additional Renders
More


Weight Design
This is the current weight design, the IC form will include other weight design options which I have thought of prior to this design.

Imgur Link for the other two design options

Plate & Layouts


The current plan for plate materials will be: Aluminium, FR4, PC



Prototypes:

There are no prototypes at this moment, but it is planned to test and send to content creators. The renders shown are what is but it may not reflect what will be. Knowing the unique design and materials used, I am expecting design changes to the board to lower overall costs as prototypes come and testing begins. I do not plan to do a complete design overhaul for the sake of minimizing price to its absolute lowest. 

Additional note: SE will be planned if and only if, there is a significant number of people who'd want the piano keys above the arrow cluster. However, I have yet to discuss with manufacturers about this possibility. Nothing is set in stone.

MOQ will range from 300-500*.
*subject to change 200-300 in consideration.

Updated Design Renders

Collab(s):

At the current moment, I will be working with FJ Laboratories for the PCB production processes.

Links
For more up-to-date... updates... join the discord!
Discord
IC Form
New IC Form


Special thanks to Hadi (33c) and ai03 (atelier) discord's for making this possible.
Signature:
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=114370.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/hMEutMo.png[/img][/url]
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 September 2021, 18:56:44 by hayasaka »

Offline hayasaka

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Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:47:30 »
    Update Log

    27/08/2021
    • The main default look of the keyboard will change. The piano keys above the arrow cluster will go for now and to be replaced with an etching of the weight design.
    • The piano keys will still remain as an option if there is enough interest in it for an SE.
    • Pricing is an issue I've speculated from the beginning. I do not have specifics in pricing, but the best target pricing would most likely be $450-$550 range, although $500-$600 range seems more appropriate. I will be doing necessary design changes to reduce the overall cost.
    • There seems to be a trend within the IC form for people wanting Navy, I will be considering that.

    29/08/2021
    I have made a few updates in my discord of changes and will be sharing them here.
    • I felt it would be a better opportunity for me and the community if the option for hot-swap were to be available. The hot-swap PCB has now been designed. Due to the mounting system of the case, several switches had to be rotated 180 degrees. Only the top row will be affected.
    • In the first update, I noted that the piano keys were to be replaced with an etching from the weight design. This is currently what it is with some additions.
      If you'd like for it to mirrored and on the left side, join the discord and let me know!
    • I will be working with FJ Laboratories with the PCB production process and perhaps the FR4 plates as well. Confirmation in the next update.

    04/09/2021
    I have done quite a number of changes and will be sharing them here, scroll up to see the previous look.
    • I have noted comments regarding this design being a bit busy on the sides. After consideration, I've implemented the following changes with the noted feedback. Giving it a more subtle look, I've reduced the harsh cornering. This would also reduce the machining time. This will be the new default look:
      More
    • The piano keys has been removed and the previous etching has been replaced with a piano with raining notes. I have left an option in the new IC form for alternatives.
    • There were some people wondering about the WKL option. I've opted not to do WKL.
    • The piano logo has gone through a few changes. Violinist on GH stated that the piano etching was in the wrong orientation it has been mirrored and the logo's body has a curvature added to the body to reflect its cover. A small picture of what I mean.
    • FR4 plate has been designed.
    • Solder PCB and Hotswap PCB has been rewired for a slightly cleaner look
    • The previous IC form, it was stated that a red/burgundy and blue/navy colour options are preferred. New renders with the new design with these two colours and previous colours:
      More
    • Plate was incorrect by the enter key for ISO compatibility and has been fixed.
    • Mounting points in the mid section has been raised for easier access.
    • The original design with the harsher corners and piano keys will go with the SE version which I've received several interest in, this has yet to be confirmed I will make a new IC form.
    New IC Form regarding the new changes, colours, etc.
    New IC Form

    • Discord invite link has been fixed

    For quicker updates, join the discord!

    [/list]
    « Last Edit: Sun, 05 September 2021, 06:56:19 by hayasaka »

    Offline missterrical

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #2 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:52:48 »
    reserved

    Offline FishyKeebs

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    • hey
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #3 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:53:07 »
    I love the design, scared for the price

    Offline missterrical

    • Posts: 2
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #4 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 05:59:37 »
    sad no wkl but i like
    « Last Edit: Sun, 10 October 2021, 18:00:13 by missterrical »

    Offline Surefoot

    • Posts: 399
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #5 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 06:35:28 »
    Very nice profile ! Brass plate option would be nice too.

    Offline blaqbern

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #6 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 07:14:10 »
    scared for the price
    I agree. This design is going to be very expensive to machine.
    The super-thin walls on the left and right edges of the mid piece may not be possible at all, but If they can be done, itíll be pricey.
    The piano key design above the arrow cluster looks neat. But the bevel on the keys will be cost-prohibitive. Consider changing that to an etching, or removing the bevels.
    Also, just the general complexity of the design means more machine time, which means higher costs. Youíll need to bake-in as many optimizations as you can to get this design down to a price that people are willing to pay.

    Offline c0d3r

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #7 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 08:12:50 »
    This is amazing

    Offline Bachoo

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #8 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:00:23 »
    The board looks nice, but I can't really gather a solid opinion on this because of lack of prototypes. Have you quoted out to a manu, or have a target price for this in your mind?

    Offline Udyrstruidor

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    • uga uga
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #9 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:33:16 »
    I am in love with the design, please make it happen! If the price is on point I will surely get one

    Offline hali

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    • come for the keyboards, stay against your own will
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #10 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:51:59 »
    absolutely ridiculous accent piece above the arrows

    Offline Entity.

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #11 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 09:56:48 »
    Love the design, I cant wait for this! :thumb:

    Offline iaman

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #12 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 10:29:00 »
    Reason being: I don't believe it fits the theme of this board and I have never seen a RGB piano.
    smh

    Offline Puddsy

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #13 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 10:33:59 »
    looks expensive
    QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | TGR Alice | Mira SE | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | CW87 Proto



    "Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

    Offline Rocket

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #14 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 10:58:15 »
    This board looks unique, special but expensive. I like it, designs above the arrow keys on TKL's are :chefkiss:
    « Last Edit: Wed, 08 September 2021, 04:38:24 by Rocket »

    Offline .jan

    • Posts: 2
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #15 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 12:32:09 »
    reserved

    Offline SDKCAMPING

    • Posts: 109
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #16 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 13:46:07 »
    it looks unique butwayy too busy for me, reminds me of chinese gaming hardware on amazon without the rgb, not sure how expensive it will be but people seem to be saying it will be expensive

    Offline hayasaka

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #17 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 16:02:55 »
    scared for the price
    I agree. This design is going to be very expensive to machine.
    The super-thin walls on the left and right edges of the mid piece may not be possible at all, but If they can be done, itíll be pricey.
    The piano key design above the arrow cluster looks neat. But the bevel on the keys will be cost-prohibitive. Consider changing that to an etching, or removing the bevels.
    Also, just the general complexity of the design means more machine time, which means higher costs. Youíll need to bake-in as many optimizations as you can to get this design down to a price that people are willing to pay.

    Hey, thanks for the concern. Upon designing this board, pricing was the number one issue I had in mind, this will be something I will be working on to minimize as much as possible. As such, the piano keys above the arrow clusters will go for now. The option will still remain if there is enough interest in it for an SE, however, in the mean time it will be replaced with an etching of the current design from the weight.

    The thin walls on the side bezels were noted upon designing too. There is actually space between the outermost bezel to the inside, so it is thicker than it visually looks. However, it may not be enough and in the end I may have to increase bezel size. I have yet to discuss with manufacturers, I can only fully confirm necessary changes the moment I do.

    Offline hayasaka

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #18 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 16:08:03 »
    The board looks nice, but I can't really gather a solid opinion on this because of lack of prototypes. Have you quoted out to a manu, or have a target price for this in your mind?

    Understandable, I have already considered a few design changes which will lower the price with an easier manufacturing process, which is why I have held off on prototypes. I have not yet gotten quotes from manu's yet, but the most realistic target pricing I believe, will be from the (USD) $500-$600 range. With the best bet of $450-$550. 

    Offline Kinesiologist

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #19 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 17:49:30 »
    I am in favor of changing the design above the arrow cluster. Is it possible to replace the design with an etched phrase "Maestro" (in fancy calligraphy font)?

    Either way Im a sucker for TKLs so will definitely keep an eye on this.

    Offline hayasaka

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #20 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 19:25:41 »
    I am in favor of changing the design above the arrow cluster. Is it possible to replace the design with an etched phrase "Maestro" (in fancy calligraphy font)?

    Either way Im a sucker for TKLs so will definitely keep an eye on this.

    Interesting idea, I'll keep that in mind.

    Offline //gainsborough

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    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #21 on: Fri, 27 August 2021, 22:03:52 »
    this is super cool!  I'm also in favor of changing the arrow cluster design.  Maybe a crescendo symbol?  I do like your creativity with what you have, though!


    Offline Old_Duck

    • Posts: 5
    • Location: Texas
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #23 on: Sat, 28 August 2021, 14:40:25 »
    Maybe I'm just crazy, but I like how the white render looks flipped over. Imagine putting the switches on that side. The cascading style of cuts look classy, but is easily missed because it is on the underside. All that extra manufacturing CNC passes just to be hidden underneath. Bear with me a little longer, if you put switches on this side, then maybe replace the weight with wood trim such as ebony or mahogany. If you are going piano themed, may as well incorporate wood with a glossy finish right?
    « Last Edit: Sat, 28 August 2021, 14:44:06 by Old_Duck »

    Offline deex

    • Posts: 1
    Re: [IC] pf (pianoforte) F13 TKL: A classy, 3-piece, screw-less design.
    « Reply #24 on: Sat, 28 August 2021, 19:11:27 »
    black and ss looks amazing god damn

    Offline Violinist

    • Posts: 3
    Nice design! But as a musician I have to say that the free floating notes above the arrow cluster looks pretty silly. It takes away from the cool piano image and instead of a serious "homage" it seems like a souvenir item. Also, if you could add "presence" or "grandeur" by designing a grand piano instead of a "baby grand". Just my two cents.

    Offline Violinist

    • Posts: 3
    Not to mention that the piano image is backwards, you cannot leave it as is! Friendly advice. I don't mean that the piano is just facing the wrong way, it is printed backwards. 

    Offline HugoChowsky

    • Posts: 5
    F13 WK with hotswap? Count me in! Absolutely hate those WKL trend! WK is LIFE  :thumb:

    Offline hayasaka

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    Not to mention that the piano image is backwards, you cannot leave it as is! Friendly advice. I don't mean that the piano is just facing the wrong way, it is printed backwards.

    Thanks for catching that cause I certainly didn't. I'll be changing it.

    Offline sndb

    • Posts: 2
    F13 WK with hotswap? Count me in! Absolutely hate those WKL trend! WK is LIFE  :thumb:

    Yeah, while it's entirely possible, completely overhauling the default desktop/WM navigation hotkeys in nearly every distro or window manager that exists, just to get rid of a key so a keyboard rarely seen by others looks a little different....

    I don't mind and sometimes even use both software and hard key locks for meta if gaming, but I've used & read the i3/sway and other configs used by people on WKL daily drivers it's just irritating to move meta functionality to Alt and then remap Alt to ??? and so on and so on.

    Offline Dinerenblanc

    • Posts: 55
    I like the concept, but its a bit overdesigned. The literal piano key silhouette above the arrow keys is a little too on the nose. When paying homage, you should aim to suggest, not simply imitate. Also, I'm not so sure about the all hard corners on its base. When i think of a grand piano, I see a spacious silhouette with exaggerated curves accentuated by hard angles. Your design is a bit cramped, with the curves being too understated, to the point where all the layering of hard angles became the focus, making it look more like a gamer aesthetic than anything. With that said, I look forward to revisions. It's a good idea.

    Offline Garner

    • Posts: 28
    • Location: Sweden
    I'm all for unique and bold keyboard designs and just want to encourage you to stick to your design visions and not remove vital design elements only for the sake of cutting costs.

    It's one thing to optimize the design to reduce the machining costs but it should not come at the cost of the design itself. If someone wants a more exotic designed keyboard they should expect to pay a bit more as well (within reasonable margins).

    I don't think it's overdesigned, I think it's unique and makes a statement on the desk. Maybe not the most accurate design for a piano themed board in my opinion but since there already are plenty of minimalistic designs (similar-boards-with-different-weight-engravings-to-tell-them-apart) I just want you to keep up the creativity and keep thinking outside the box like you already are. :)  GL!

    Offline hayasaka

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    I like the concept, but its a bit overdesigned. The literal piano key silhouette above the arrow keys is a little too on the nose. When paying homage, you should aim to suggest, not simply imitate. Also, I'm not so sure about the all hard corners on its base. When i think of a grand piano, I see a spacious silhouette with exaggerated curves accentuated by hard angles. Your design is a bit cramped, with the curves being too understated, to the point where all the layering of hard angles became the focus, making it look more like a gamer aesthetic than anything. With that said, I look forward to revisions. It's a good idea.
    This has been noted and changes have been made listed in the update log.

    Offline Violinist

    • Posts: 3
    Re: [IC] UPDATE: DESIGN CHANGES, update log, new IC form. pf F13 TKL
    « Reply #33 on: Sat, 11 September 2021, 14:38:28 »
    The changes look nice! I admire you for taking constructive criticism so well : )  :thumb: