[IC] Doubleshot 87 Key Red on Black Keyset

[hazeluff]

Taking something from my GB.

4 key set + 5 key set is almost the same price as a 9 key set at the number of sets we are looking at. But only worth it if the number of the 4 and 5 key sets are similar. But given the small price difference for the extra comparability, It shouldn't be a problem.

[balanar]

So 104 keys FTW?

[hazeluff]

So 104 keys FTW?

I'd check the numbers. almost 20 keys difference.

[demik]

I don't want to pay for stuff I'm not going to use.

Everybody is going to use 87 key, regardless if you get tenkeyless or full 104

[balanar]

I'd check the numbers. almost 20 keys difference.

Yup 17 keys to be exact right? Isn't 87 + 17 = 104? Counted the keys on a picture of a full size too. Am I missing something?

[hazeluff]

Yup 17 keys to be exact right? Isn't 87 + 17 = 104? Counted the keys on a picture of a full size too. Am I missing something?

I Didn't want to math so I said almost 20. 17 is almost 20.

[balanar]

I Didn't want to math so I said almost 20. 17 is almost 20.

Lol I figured you spotted an error or something when you said "I'd check the numbers". Thought you didn't trust me to do simple addition. ):

[hazeluff]

Lol I figured you spotted an error or something when you said "I'd check the numbers". Thought you didn't trust me to do simple addition. ):

By numbers I meant the price. I'm sure most of us can do 104-87.

[DanGWanG]

By numbers I meant the price. I'm sure most of us can do 104-87.

Miscommunication at its finest!

[Ragnorock]

So I'm about to do Nyancat orders so I don't quite have enough time to address everything put forth overnight, but here's where I stand.

Even if I offer multiple kits, it is going to be very simple to both order and for me to process. I agree with Tsangan for the most part that it will only add to the base kit count to offer some of these other kits. For example, and obviously these are rough names and numbers, but imagine the sample order looking like this.

Base 87 key set

1x Ragnarok

Add ons

1x Phantom

1x 104

1x iso

Total:
$85

The only problem we can run into with offering more sets is people's expectations. I will say it now, Even if I do offer an ISO or 104 kit, perhaps even the Phantom kit, the percentage of the overall orders interested in each of those is going to be fairly low, and as such, the add on kits will be expensive. If you really want to do those kits, your concern for low cost needs to go away, because it turns it from very competitive and affordable to (no idea on the pricing yet) an extra $20 for 9 keys, perhaps $30 for a 104 add on if only 5 people want it. I'm not sure what we Melissa is going to say about minimum number of kits as I have never done an order under 25.

Regardless, if I do offer at least the Phantom kit, I think our chances of hitting 50 greatly increase, even if the phantom kit costs the guys interested a fair bit more.

[tsangan]

There's really no min order, but I think anything above 10 you will get a price you can swallow

In the end when you're done whatever you're doing with the other GB just get the numbers so then people can see, but I definitely think the Phantom add-on will be a great hit to lower the pricing of that kit itself and the base kit also :O

[mkawa]

from my memory of the latest phantom gb numbers, i think we can get a lot more than 50 orders for a nice simple SP gb, and i think tsangan is probably right in that a lot of people are going to want 1.5xs etc. i'm also all for building the biggest, simplest buy available -- i think it increases the chances of us getting a quickly and well manufactured set of keys from SP.

basically, my guess is that your efficiency in producing _correct_ keys when you produce keys goes up with the number of correct keys you want to produce. example: let's say i order a single key from SP. most likely what they're going to do is have the machine press out 5 keys and give you the best one. hence, their loss rate at a volume of 1 is like 5; it will cost them like 5x what you want to pay for materials to produce a single key. however, if you order 100 keys they'll probably program the thing to stamp out like 200 keys and give you the best hundred. at a thousand key production, they can probably produce something like 1400, etc.

basically, they have to toss out all the samples at end up in the tails of their tolerance metrics, but the number of samples near the mean doesn't start to dominate those in the tails until you get to (the law of) large numbers of samples. apologies if you're a statistician and this is painfully obvious to you. just pointing out that "paying for things you won't use" is not a bad thing, as making more things is _significantly_ more efficient than making fewer things.

also, the keys need to be proofed, period. look at pictures of R3. "back space"? seriously?

[MrPhil]

Interested!

[hazeluff]

Rag. Melissa is doing 9keys in a set for me and it started at 10 sets.

[RColinTaylor]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40157[/ATTACH]

[tsangan]

I missed you RCT :wave:

[metafour]

If it brings the cost down significantly for those that do want them I wouldn't mind paying a little extra per set for including the 1.5 modifiers with the base 87 set. Plus, for those that want to sell the set later it has the possibility of fitting more keyboards.

[hashbaz]

What I fear with add-on kits is that you will get people who are "provisionally" in (whether they say it or not).  If their add-on kit ends up being expensive they will pull out entirely, taking their base order with them.  Allowing add-ons won't decrease the demand for base kits, but it could inflate the base kit orders enough to drop into a more expensive price tier when people pull out at the last second.

[hazeluff]

What I fear with add-on kits is that you will get people who are "provisionally" in (whether they say it or not).  If their add-on kit ends up being expensive they will pull out entirely, taking their base order with them.  Allowing add-ons won't decrease the demand for base kits, but it could inflate the base kit orders enough to drop into a more expensive price tier when people pull out at the last second.

I dont like the fact of paying extra for keys i am 95% sure i will never use.

[mkawa]

I dont like the fact of paying extra for keys i am 95% sure i will never use.

get over it. there are more people in the world than just you.

[Kisakuku]

I dont like the fact of paying extra for keys i am 95% sure i will never use.

But but but all we do here on GH is pay extra for things we will never use...

get over it. there are more people in the world than just you.

Unpossible.

[mkawa]

also a good point

[demik]

What's the ratio of tenkeyless users to 104 users?

[Kisakuku]

What's the ratio of tenkeyless users to 104 users?

Warning: Divide by zero.
  (Type "warning off MATLAB:divideByZero" to suppress this warning.)

  ans =
   Inf

[demik]

Last time I divided by zero I ended up here and my bank account took a hit

[mkawa]

divide hard 2: divide harder

[IPT]

get over it. there are more people in the world than just you.

if you got that much disposable income, please pay for the extra keys, i'll give my extras to your order. :tea:
(can't tell if serious)

[Ragnorock]

None of the add ons are going to be incorporated into the base kit. Simply said, that is not happening. Those that just want the 87(88) key kit will get just that. I say 88 because last time we discussed it, the consensus was to do a spare enter key in case people don't like the Execute.

Also from what I just gathered, if there are less than ten interested in an add on set, it isn't happening. That means ISO is out, and probably 104 unless people speak up now. I am perfectly fine with just offering the Phantom, so if you guys want the 104 kit or the ISO kit you better make yourself known.

[demik]

Yes! Base and phantom ftw

[Kisakuku]

Yes! Base and phantom ftw

Base and phantom superstructure is all we need.

[Ragnorock]

Speaking of Bass and Phantom... I'm listening to this right now on M Audio BX8as and AV40s:
[video=youtube;brcTRA9HHgQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brcTRA9HHgQ[/video]

[hazeluff]

get over it. there are more people in the world than just you.

Yeah but its not just me. The thing is most people would only need the base set
 By forcing the addon bits to those who dont need it, It is only making people pay more so that a few who want the addon bits get it cheaper.

Also: wubwubwubwubwub

[kikkobots]

i'm interested

[metafour]

Yeah but its not just me. The thing is most people would only need the base set
 By forcing the addon bits to those who dont need it, It is only making people pay more so that a few who want the addon bits get it cheaper.

Also: wubwubwubwubwub

I completely understand this. I was saying I'm willing to take one for the community. I'm not in charge of this and opinions were asked for so I threw up something to see if people were willing to get behind it. We could debate this forever but it seems like Ragnorock isn't interested in doing it so the issue has been resolved. I'm still in for a set.

[Zehkul]

What I fear with add-on kits is that you will get people who are "provisionally" in (whether they say it or not).  If their add-on kit ends up being expensive they will pull out entirely, taking their base order with them.

But they wouldn't order at all without the kit. ;P And no need to fear this if the prices are correct from the beginning.
AddOn Kits could have round 4 prices, I mean, there are quite some people ordering round 4 stuff, right? So they would sustain themselves, not increase the price for others and bring more orders for the basic kit.

Also from what I just gathered, if there are less than ten interested in an add on set, it isn't happening. That means ISO is out, and probably 104 unless people speak up now.

Last time I checked round 4 had quite some ISO orders, even for blood. Might be interesting though how many of those would buy a kit that's ISO but with US legends. (Maybe even some ANSI folks? There are many Cherry ISO boards after all) Depends on what we'll find on the additional keys for me, but I'm in for good looking stuff.

[tsangan]

my 9 keys add-on set should be standard for all sets going forward as a add-on, i'm just saying

hashbaz: I see what you mean, but the people ordering the add-on set knows what it will cost, they will be prepared to pay at the 10 set tier, or 25 set tier, whichever it may be we will hope for the best and prepare for the worst. We're not going to be like I'll be in if there's 50 orders, those never work out as no one is actually ordering.

[Soulpyre]

I guess I'm one of the people who want a 104 addon-kit. If its not feasible or bogs this GB down I understand the need to cut it.

[mkawa]

god, no wonder the group buys here take so long. rag, please just decide what you'd like to do; i highly suggest listening to basically no one else. people can decide whether they want what you're organizing or not.

[hashbaz]

god, no wonder the group buys here take so long. rag, please just decide what you'd like to do; i highly suggest listening to basically no one else. people can decide whether they want what you're organizing or not.

mkawa y u so cranky?

[tsangan]

mkawa y u so cranky?

I was thinking the same thing :rofl:

[litster]

mkawabunga!

[mkawa]

sorry, i am quite cranky today i must have put my ripster hat on this morning by accident (lulz!)

no but seriously, just decide something dudes. i'm pretty much in regardless.

[Ragnorock]

Uhh, yeah dude, chill.  The whole point of the interest check thread is tossing up ideas and debating their merits. If it was the order thread I would be saying take it or leave it lol. This. Isn't delaying anything, I'm just getting it sorted before the thread goes up next week.

[WorldExclusive]

The only problem we can run into with offering more sets is people's expectations. I will say it now, Even if I do offer an ISO or 104 kit, perhaps even the Phantom kit, the percentage of the overall orders interested in each of those is going to be fairly low, and as such, the add on kits will be expensive. If you really want to do those kits, your concern for low cost needs to go away, because it turns it from very competitive and affordable to (no idea on the pricing yet) an extra $20 for 9 keys, perhaps $30 for a 104 add on if only 5 people want it. I'm not sure what we Melissa is going to say about minimum number of kits as I have never done an order under 25.

Regardless, if I do offer at least the Phantom kit, I think our chances of hitting 50 greatly increase, even if the phantom kit costs the guys interested a fair bit more.

This is the issue I have with offering more than one kit. Instead of have 80 orders of one kit that will give everyone low prices, we will have 20 people spread over 4 kits and it would be costly for everyone.
Even a 87 and 104 split is fine. But anything over three kits be prepared for high prices and confusion.

[alaricljs]

This is the issue I have with offering more than one kit. Instead of have 80 orders of one kit that will give everyone low prices, we will have 20 people spread over 4 kits and it would be costly for everyone.
Even a 87 and 104 split is fine. But anything over three kits be prepared for high prices and confusion.

I'm thinking you're confused.  The way Ragnorock is planning the 'kits' is a base 87-key for standard TKL boards, and then add-on kits to adapt that base kit to 104key, ISO, Phantom and so forth.  So everyone that orders kicks down the 87key price, and then they have to deal with a small kit add-on that could cost quite a bit more per key to get a complete set for their particular board layout.

[balanar]

Knowing the geekhack community, I'm quite sure people with tenkeyless will just buy the 104 set if there isn't any other option cos they can still fill their board but those with a 104 keyboard might not get it because they simply don't have enough keys to populate the whole board.

I say keep it simple and just go with 104. Rather not alienate a part of the potential buyer market. With enough buyers, wouldn't the price of a 104 set drop enough to be negligibly more ex than a 87 key set? By negligible, I'm talking less than a $5 increase.

[hazeluff]

Knowing the geekhack community, I'm quite sure people with tenkeyless will just buy the 104 set if there isn't any option but those with a 104 keyboard might not get it because they simply don't have enough keys to populate the whole board.

I say keep it simple and just go with 104. Rather not alienate a part of the potential buyer market. With enough buyers, wouldn't the price of a 104 set drop enough to be negligibly more ex than a 87 key set? By negligible, I'm talking less than a $5 increase.

That may be so. = ) It's up to rag and what he sees fit.

Both sides and their arguments are very valid.

[balanar]

That may be so. = ) It's up to rag and what he sees fit.

Both sides and their arguments are very valid.

Yup of course. Like he said, the purpose is just throw all the points up into the air. Final say belongs to him.

[hazeluff]

Yup of course. Like he said, the purpose is just throw all the points up into the air. Final say belongs to him.

I shouldn't have said too much since I wasn't interested in blood, but the other Red on white that was brought up = x. But ummm yeah...

Anyway, I'm off to bed. I've got some girls to beat in a ice hockey game 2morrow. >.>

[balanar]

I shouldn't have said too much since I wasn't interested in blood, but the other Red on white that was brought up = x. But ummm yeah...

Anyway, I'm off to bed. I've got some girls to beat in a ice hockey game 2morrow. >.>

You should start a GB for that. I'd be in for a set, regardless of 87 or 104. But that's a chat for another time and another thread. Good luck for the game haha.