[Got an awesome price quote! See post 230] Aluminum poker cases

[demik]

The metal inset is where we will be screwing in the pcb right?

[whiskerBox]

I dont know about you guys, but I wish the usb hole on imstos case was a little bigger and the one on this case appears to be even smaller

[demik]

I wish it was perfectly fitted to make it more stable.

[whiskerBox]

I wish it was perfectly fitted to make it more stable.

Yea that would be ideal, but probably alot of work to have it mounted flush with the case

[oneproduct]

I dont know about you guys, but I wish the usb hole on imstos case was a little bigger and the one on this case appears to be even smaller

The hole will actually be made bigger than it is now. With the thickness of this metal case being more than that of the plastic one, the female receptor for the USB doesn't reach out as far so I'm going to get them to make the hole to match the dimensions of the black plastic bit of the male end of the USB (slightly bigger actually so that it has some working room). This will also keep the connection a little more protected.

There were two problems with the prototype that will be fixed. First, the cutout in the metal insert for the USB jack doesn't go back far enough and second I didn't allow enough vertical wiggle room for the USB jack when measuring the height of the cutout on the back wall of the case. Because of this, in the pictures where I have the PCB in there, you may notice that the back side of the board is slightly tilted down as the USB jack could just barely get inside the hole. This will be fixed of course.

Because the metal gets marked during the bending process, I'll will be glass beading them all except if somebody specifically wants one to be left the way it is (maybe they like the rugged look).

The USB hole will be fixed so that it is rounded like the edge of the case instead of square as it is in these images, but it may have some traces of those lines from the cut left, as they must be made to do the bending part. It's possible they could try to weld the lines shut though, I'll ask about it.

For the metal insert, some guiding cuts are made along the left and right walls of the case and the insert will be placed in there and welded into position.

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[oneproduct]

Also keep in mind that there may be some minor imperfections here and there as these are hand made, but as you can see it's pretty good I think.

[demik]

Nothing a little powdercoating or anodizing can't hide.

[alaricljs]

That is an over-abundance of metal... sheesh.

[Nighted]

That is an over-abundance of metal... sheesh.

Feel free to make yourself one from aluminum foil.

[mkawa]

how much does the proto weigh?

[oneproduct]

That is an over-abundance of metal... sheesh.

Yea. The first plan was to just have the cuts made into the metal base, but they said it would be too hard to cut into it without going all the way through. So instead there's now a metal insert. On the plus side, for those who like their keyboards to have a lot of weight, this only helps.

In terms of cost this won't really add anything because again, it's really the labor we are paying for, the metal is cheap. The person who does the estimates is on vacation but he'll be back next week so hopefully I'll hear about what the price will be soon.

how much does the proto weigh?

I didn't get a chance to weigh it, they didn't have a scale there and I left it there for them to work with. It wasn't obnoxiously heavy for those who are worried about that, you can see that I can move it in the air with one hand easily in the video. Aluminum overall is pretty light though, so if you're really interested in it being heavy then I'd recommend you go with steel which will be much heavier.

EDIT: density of aluminum is 2.7 g/cm^3 and steel is 7.8 g/cm^3, so it would be more than 3 times heavier. Based on my blueprints a rough estimate would then be 28.9*9.7*0.47625*2 = 267 g or 0.59 pounds for aluminum if I got that right (just did two times the middle section, one for the case and one for the insert).

[mkawa]

soo.. open to a US collaborator? i'm here...

[emptythecache]

more than anything, those pictures make me really really want a nyan row.

[oneproduct]

Yea. Once I get them all made it would be best if there was someone in either Eastern or central US for me to ship out all the US orders to because it would probably be much cheaper on shipping than if I sent out each one individually from out of the country.

[turbocharged]

Doesn't look bad (except for the cut for the usb...that pretty ugly). Two main comments though...

1) I still think it is too thick...could get much better formability if you went with something thinner.

2) If you were to angle the pcb inside (aka have different height front and rear walls and triangular side walls) you would potentially be able to put the USB slot above the bend and get rid of that eye-sore of a cutout.

[Nighted]

^ This is just a prototype.

[oneproduct]

Doesn't look bad (except for the cut for the usb...that pretty ugly). Two main comments though...

1) I still think it is too thick...could get much better formability if you went with something thinner.

2) If you were to angle the pcb inside (aka have different height front and rear walls and triangular side walls) you would potentially be able to put the USB slot above the bend and get rid of that eye-sore of a cutout.

I think that a lot of people, myself included, like it to be thick as a sign of sturdiness and because it adds weight.

If the PCB were angled then the keys would be angled along with it which would affect usability. Also, having the PCB lie flat against a metal base will keep it sturdier than the way that it is done in the Poker's normal case, which would be similar to what you are suggesting. It would be easier instead to just have the metal insert inside be thicker so that the USB jack would be higher up if we did want to get it away from the bend. That's not actually too bad of an idea, it would just make the walls have to be a little higher. But also remember that the cutout won't look so bad on the final one, this was just done quick to show off the general concept. The cutout probably won't be perfect either (unless I can get them to kind of weld the lines shut after they round off the square bit), but it's also on the back side of the case and would pretty much be hidden from sight by the USB cable anyways, though obviously I will try to make it look as good as I can.

While the Poker's original case keeps the PCB slanted, that's because the case doesn't have feet you can flip out like on other keyboards. I never use the flip out feet, and for ergonomic purposes people really shouldn't in general, so I want it to lie flat and if people want otherwise they can buy little plastic nubs which you can get from a home furniture store.

[morgofborg]

Wow, looks sweet to me. I bought the poker just cuz I think it looks cool; not for portability or anything. Mine needs all the added weight it can get in my opinion. Really liking that rough steel look.

[oneproduct]

Wow, looks sweet to me. I bought the poker just cuz I think it looks cool; not for portability or anything. Mine needs all the added weight it can get in my opinion. Really liking that rough steel look.

Hah, I figured someone might like the rough look. I'll have to ask everyone about exactly what they want when time comes to actually get these made.

[Nighted]

Bead blasted for me. Let's see how those seems look in the end, that's the deciding factor for me.

[turbocharged]

Is the PCB not slightly angled in the stock poker case? That's all that I'm referring to.

The reason I don't like the thickness is because it gives you much larger bend radii. This can make it look a bit smoother (more rounded), but it also contributes to that usb cutout being in the bend rather than in the flat.

^ This is just a prototype.

I realize this, but if that is the way that the builder plans on making the cutout for the usb connection, then I think it looks ugly.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I like the idea of an unfinished stainless case, just simple with a couple of bends and plasma cuts and no welding. There would be small gaps in the corners, but that wouldn't matter because it would be clean looking. I'll model something up this weekend....for serious this time.

[oneproduct]

Is the PCB not slightly angled in the stock poker case? That's all that I'm referring to.

Yes, it is, but that's done because the case as a whole is on a slant to simulate the fold out feet that other keyboards have which the Poker doesn't. However, I'm not a fan of the fold out feet on keyboards because they force your wrists to incline backwards which is unergonomic, so I'd rather have it flat (and you would ideally have a negative incline). It's easier to get little rubber feet from a home furniture store if you wish to incline it, plus you'll need to get some anyways unless you just want the metal case to lie against your desk.

I'll see what I can do about the cutout though to make it a bit nicer.

[snowboarder3]

probably in

[Elrobo]

Looks sweet. Now I just need to get a poker before it's order time.

[Elrick]

1x aluminum
$75-100

1x stainless steel
$100-125

Exactly the same as this guy..........Please.

[GeorgeStorm]

Like the look of it, looking forward to hearing the weight, looks like it will add a nice amount of heft

[oneproduct]

Do you think it would be better to just cut a square shape before bending along the red line and have the hole for the USB jack run smooth along the back and bottom? Or would people prefer if the bottom stayed uncut and I just get them to do their best to minimize the effect on the bottom of the case? They'll be rounding off the square bit sticking out of course, the lines for the cut will probably be more smooth and they may be able to weld shut part or all of what remains, but there may be some signs of the cut left over. I'll have to speak about that with them again.

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[mkawa]

1) i prefer the square cut (ie the usb hole is open to back and bottom)

can you get the weight data and how thick the sheet is? it almost looks overly thick (although if this is just how thick their 5052 stock is, that's fine).

2) what's going to keep the pcb from shorting out against the metal insert?

[oneproduct]

soo.. open to a US collaborator? i'm here...

Do you know a good place to get a bunch of 2-56 screws with about 3/8" length? There's a picture of the screw with this designation among the other pictures I posted, it's the same as the Poker's screws, but I just need longer ones. The only place I can find them here (a hobby shop for model trains and other miniature things) has them for $0.50 each so for 40 cases with 5 screws each it would cost me $100 in screws. If you could get them there, I could just send the cases to you and let you repackage them with the screws before sending them out within the US. I'll try to look for somewhere else to get them here in the meantime just in case.

1) i prefer the square cut (ie the usb hole is open to back and bottom)

can you get the weight data and how thick the sheet is? it almost looks overly thick (although if this is just how thick their 5052 stock is, that's fine).

2) what's going to keep the pcb from shorting out against the metal insert?

The sheet should be 3/16" if they did what I had asked them (for reference, this is the same thickness as the back edge bevel of a Filco), and it looks pretty good to me at that thickness, but you guys are the customers so if you guys want it thinner I can do thinner. However in the end I have to use the same thickness for everyone because it's not one sheet of metal per poker case, you cut out as many as you can tetris into it.

I was going to use two layers of the same type of thing that imsto used, but if you don't like that you could change it with whatever you like after receiving it.

I'll double check on the thickness and weight next time I meet them which may be as early as Monday.

[jonnybastard]

Do you think it would be better to just cut a square shape before bending along the red line and have the hole for the USB jack run smooth along the back and bottom? Or would people prefer if the bottom stayed uncut and I just get them to do their best to minimize the effect on the bottom of the case? They'll be rounding off the square bit sticking out of course, the lines for the cut will probably be more smooth and they may be able to weld shut part or all of what remains, but there may be some signs of the cut left over. I'll have to speak about that with them again.

If they can round off the leftover tag and mask the cut then that would probably look better, otherwise go for the square cut option, also if it's going to drive labour costs up significantly to round and fill etc then just go the square option.

Thickness looks good to me, a wee bit more than the imsto case's but not so thick that it looks silly.  Looking good so far overall, the bead blasted finish looks great.

We're you still looking at doing some in stainless aswell or just aluminium for now?

[Elrobo]

I think the USB tab would look better cut off/completely rounded. Plus less likely to tear something if you are transporting it in a bag with other stuff.

[oneproduct]

Thickness looks good to me, a wee bit more than the imsto case's but not so thick that it looks silly. Looking good so far overall, the bead blasted finish looks great.

We're you still looking at doing some in stainless aswell or just aluminium for now?

I still don't know how thick imsto's case is, I've asked a few times but nobody ever got back to me.

Still aiming to do both unless the guy who does estimates tells me that to qualify for bulk I have to use the same material for all of them.

I think the USB tab would look better cut off/completely rounded. Plus less likely to tear something if you are transporting it in a bag with other stuff.

Oh for sure it would be rounded off, not square. This prototype didn't have it rounded off because it wasn't needed for this demo case. The thing is that even after rounding it off, there may be some signs of the cut still being present, but they may be able to hide most of it. I'm not sure though so was just throwing out the idea of cutting the whole thing but wondering if having the hole touch the bottom a bit would bother people. I personally don't mind.

Do you know a good place to get a bunch of 2-56 screws with about 3/8" length? There's a picture of the screw with this designation among the other pictures I posted, it's the same as the Poker's screws, but I just need longer ones. The only place I can find them here (a hobby shop for model trains and other miniature things) has them for $0.50 each so for 40 cases with 5 screws each it would cost me $100 in screws.

I found them for $0.3425 each from a place online (http://shop.dubro.com/products/productdetail/Bolt+Sets+With+Lock+Nuts+2-56+x+1/2%22+%28QTY/PKG%3A+4+%29/part_number=174/101.0.1.1.0.0.0.0.0?s=part_number&part_number_d=ASC&part_number_c=part_number&t=1&i=all&), but the shipping cost is $24 to Canada which brings the total to around $92.50 which doesn't save me much in the long run. Shipping is only $7.50 to the US though which would bring it to $76 which is pretty good, so if somebody would want to handle distribution within the US and buy a whole bunch of these to go with it (I'd give the money of course) it would save a bit.

[Nighted]

Do you know a good place to get a bunch of 2-56 screws with about 3/8" length? There's a picture of the screw with this designation among the other pictures I posted, it's the same as the Poker's screws, but I just need longer ones.

Rastall Nut & Bolt in Sudbury, Ontario. Call and ask for Kirk.

[oneproduct]

Rastall Nut & Bolt in Sudbury, Ontario. Call and ask for Kirk.

Thanks for the tip. Sent them an e-mail for now since I imagine they're closed at the moment but will call if they don't get back to me by e-mail.

[Nighted]

You'd be better off calling them Monday. They're not so web savvy. Not their fault, but whoever dev'd their website isn't quite up to par.

[mkawa]

Do you know a good place to get a bunch of 2-56 screws with about 3/8" length? There's a picture of the screw with this designation among the other pictures I posted, it's the same as the Poker's screws, but I just need longer ones. The only place I can find them here (a hobby shop for model trains and other miniature things) has them for $0.50 each so for 40 cases with 5 screws each it would cost me $100 in screws. If you could get them there, I could just send the cases to you and let you repackage them with the screws before sending them out within the US. I'll try to look for somewhere else to get them here in the meantime just in case.

agreed. i'll check mcmaster and ask around on campus. i may be able to get them cheaply from a stock room somewhere.

The sheet should be 3/16" if they did what I had asked them (for reference, this is the same thickness as the back edge bevel of a Filco), and it looks pretty good to me at that thickness, but you guys are the customers so if you guys want it thinner I can do thinner. However in the end I have to use the same thickness for everyone because it's not one sheet of metal per poker case, you cut out as many as you can tetris into it.

I was going to use two layers of the same type of thing that imsto used, but if you don't like that you could change it with whatever you like after receiving it.

I'll double check on the thickness and weight next time I meet them which may be as early as Monday.

yah i'm not hugely picky about plate thickness as long as it doesn't weight like 3lbs. most likely we should stick with however he prototyped it to avoid him needing to recalculate the bend radius material etc.

ps, i'm on the west coast, but i don't expect this to be an issue.

[mkawa]

I realize this, but if that is the way that the builder plans on making the cutout for the usb connection, then I think it looks ugly.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I like the idea of an unfinished stainless case, just simple with a couple of bends and plasma cuts and no welding. There would be small gaps in the corners, but that wouldn't matter because it would be clean looking. I'll model something up this weekend....for serious this time.

i suspect you can get yours unfinished. the welding issue should probably be uniform though. if you can model something up and get oneproduct and us the file asap maybe he can propose it to the builder and we can discuss. he's moving forward on this asap though, so please get that going.

[zzspectrez]

just wanted to add that I am interested in an aluminum case if around $100

[PixelVandalism]

I want one so much..
I doubt I'll be able to afford one though

[turbocharged]

yah i'm not hugely picky about plate thickness as long as it doesn't weight like 3lbs. most likely we should stick with however he prototyped it to avoid him needing to recalculate the bend radius material etc.

Taking the drawing dimensions on the first page and a 3/16" plate thickness the case will have ~11.4 cubic inches of material (didn't include cut-outs).
For 5052 aluminum (Density = 0.097 lb/cu.in.) it will weigh roughly 1.1 lbs.
For 304 stainless it will weigh ~3.25lbs (Density = 0.285 lb/cu.in.)

[prava]

so I want it to lie flat and if people want otherwise they can buy little plastic nubs which you can get from a home furniture store.

Thats not a good idea. At least, you should try to make two threaded holes on the bottom of the shell so that people could buy their own feet (in case you don't feel like manufacturing yourself) and just screw them there. It would end up pretty bad if for such a quality CNC'ed product you end up putting some crappy plastics nubs over there.

Also, keep in mind that once you are doing it...you better do it right Keep in mind that threading a hole for a machining shop is rather easy and cheap, whereas not everybody here will have the tools to do it and would rather pay somebody for it. And, if you decide to make the threading...you could also offer some feet (from any furniture shop or whatever) and do the same beading you will do for the body, as to mach the finish on both things. The overall cost of it wouldn't be too high but the product would be better finished.

PS: it would be ideal if you could do feet as Imsto did...but that is a very different level since those feet were machined too

[oneproduct]

Yea, there's no way I could make feet like imsto did. What kind of feet from furniture stores are you referring to? Pictures would be good. I don't think that I could get feet that would really match it well, especially not if they have to be made of aluminum or steel like the case is (or at least, not at a really low price). I could thread the holes on the back if people wanted to find their own though, but for my own case I wouldn't be doing that since I just want the case flat and the bottom smooth.

If I did thread holes and include something, it would probably be like this so people could adjust the height:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 43402[/ATTACH]

This type of thing would be okay for back feet, but then what, if anything, should I do with the front?

[whiskerBox]

So the cases are pretty cool, but realistically how many will actually be available?

[oneproduct]

Assuming that the unit price meets what people are willing to pay for (~$100 or less) then I can get as many made as we want. And the more people that are interested the lower the unit price will be as we get into bulk quantities. I should have a quote sometime next week.

[morgofborg]

Taking the drawing dimensions on the first page and a 3/16" plate thickness the case will have ~11.4 cubic inches of material (didn't include cut-outs).
For 5052 aluminum (Density = 0.097 lb/cu.in.) it will weigh roughly 1.1 lbs.
For 304 stainless it will weigh ~3.25lbs (Density = 0.285 lb/cu.in.)

Nice. Definitely sounds like we'll want these shipped to someone near oneproduct on the US side, then use flat rate for shipping. 3.25 chunk of steel might be pricey shipping otherwise...

Good that I will  be able to use my keyboard for self defense, though. Crackin skulls.

[Nighted]

Nice. Definitely sounds like we'll want these shipped to someone near oneproduct on the US side, then use flat rate for shipping. 3.25 chunk of steel might be pricey shipping otherwise...

Good that I will  be able to use my keyboard for self defense, though. Crackin skulls.

haha, that's what I was thinking too! [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 43434[/ATTACH]

[oneproduct]

I found these which are pretty amazing and would only be $5 per person.

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The only problem is that these feet are kind of big and are flat, not angled, so I'm not sure how great it would work if we just stuck two on the back.

Otherwise we can just do something simple and cheap like the ones at the bottom of the page: http://shadaloo.eu/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=18&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3

How tall should the feet be anyways? The case is about 4.7 mm thick and the cheap feet on the page I linked above are 6.4 mm thick.

[whiskerBox]

I have really mixed feelings about these cases. I guess everything boils down to what the final price is. The way I see it is that these are not finished products.

The cases will still need some sort of finish
-anodizing
-painting
-etc.

They have no legs ( some people may not care about this aspect )

So for me the price would need to be below $75 as it stands now because I will have to continue to put more money into the case to have what I consider a finished product. I do think this is a great starting point, but we really just need to figure out what the final price would be.

In addition why don't we get a quote from this company for anodizing
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[Nighted]

^ I'm pretty sure they can do anodizing in Montreal...

[oneproduct]

They have no legs ( some people may not care about this aspect )

In addition why don't we get a quote from this company for anodizing
(Attachment Link) 43442[/ATTACH]

Looking into options for feet and sent a quote request to that company.

Even if these were not anodized though, I think that the glass beaded surface looks pretty nice.

EDIT: I also just want to say that this is getting a bit out of hand though for what I was planning. I have a friend that I go to school with whose dad owns a metalworking company so I thought it would be cool to make some metal cases for the poker since everybody liked imsto's ones but there wasn't enough supply and they were a bit pricey. I can't match up to imsto's resources and these are even being made by hand rather than CNC.

I realize that not everyone has access to someplace to get anodizing done or to tap screw holes into the base if they want to add their own feet later, but I don't have a good supply of feet or immediate access to an anodizing place either and it would really be preferable for me to just supply the metal case and some basics like the screws that would be needed and something to break contact between the PCB and metal, and then if people want to modify on their own, they are free to after. If it's not finished enough of a product then you are not obligated to buy of course. I also can't make everybody happy, if you look through this thread a lot of people want a lot of different things.

I'm not running a business like imsto is and I don't intend to be selling these for a lot of profit, this was just my attempt to do something fun for geekhack. If somebody wants to help me find some place to get anodizing done (and preferably more than just linking me to it and having me follow up) then maybe we can consider it, but I can't really do everything myself, I have other stuff to do as well.