Author Topic: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard  (Read 2008 times)

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Offline vi

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Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« on: Sat, 26 June 2021, 19:52:42 »
Hello, I currently daily drive a 1986 Model M, and I love the thing. It's built like a tank, weighs like 5lb, and will probably outlive me. Because "endgame" is eternally unreachable, I've been trying to find something similar made today.

I'm ideally looking at a TKL board, but anything could work, as long as it has arrow keys (so most 60% boards are out). In a perfect world, I'd like one with hotswappable switches, as I'm a huge fan of MX Greens and BOX Navies (neither of which tend to come new on prebuilts), but I'm willing to swap switches the hard way if need be.

Currently, the two boards I'm looking at are the Leopold FC750R PD and the GMMK Pro with doubleshot keycaps, but neither is perfect. The Leopold seems durable enough, but I've heard the PCB doesn't take to kindly to a desoldering pump, and there's no QMK/VIA support (not a requirement, but nice). The GMMK Pro has all the bells and whistles (Metal Case, QMK, Hotswap, USB-C), but durability is a big question mark, and I'd have to go find a keycap set.

I have looked at Unicomp, but their boards seem to be pretty crappy at this point, and still have the heat-staked plastic supports of the old Model Ms which will eventually fail. Model F Keyboards seem built like a tank, but the layout is too weird.

Essentially, my question is the following: is there a modern equivalent to the old Model M? Something focused on durability and longevity above all else. I'm thinking the Leopold is probably what I'll end up with (coming in classic beige does help), but is there anything else in the same vein?

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 26 June 2021, 21:17:53 »
The Model F 122-key terminal can be modified to be extremely close to straight-ANSI configuration, and will give you 2 dozen additional keys.

It takes a bit of work but is far more durable and easily serviced than an M (and weighs twice as much).
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Offline yui

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 28 June 2021, 01:58:48 »
Unicomp did increase their quality a fair bit with the new ssk, although it is still the same IBM design with the plastic rivets, with the same issue of fairly random lifespan. if you are not afraid of modding could make for a long living board with a bolt mod down the line.
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Offline thoughtorgan

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 30 June 2021, 07:53:22 »
Unicomp did increase their quality a fair bit with the new ssk, although it is still the same IBM design with the plastic rivets, with the same issue of fairly random lifespan. if you are not afraid of modding could make for a long living board with a bolt mod down the line.

They've also released a new model m. It's essentially the same design, but with completely new tooling. You don't see the same quality issues people would raise with older unicomp products. Even the keycaps are leagues better than what people were posting a couple years ago.

After using unicomp's new model M at work for a couple months now, I can definitely recommend it. The plastic rivets are present, but that's a problem for older me.

Offline Karmel

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 30 June 2021, 08:31:48 »
Model F Keyboards seem built like a tank, but the layout is too weird.
122s, ATs, and a few other more obscure Fs can be easily modded to have a different layout.
If you're looking for a tkl or 75% type layout the repro f77 is pretty close, just with no f-keys. It's also compatible with QMK and has a full metal case.

Offline Avi_

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 07 July 2021, 10:18:19 »
The Leopold seems durable enough, but I've heard the PCB doesn't take to kindly to a desoldering pump,

I desoldered maybe 5-6 Leopold boards, some of them multiple times. It desolders just fine. The only minor problem is the LEDs on Caps Lock and Scroll Lock, which is slightly more difficult to desolder, but it's not a big problem.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 07 July 2021, 14:55:12 »
How about another Model M? Or is that out of the question?

Offline Zobeid Zuma

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 11 July 2021, 19:38:26 »
Model F Keyboards seem built like a tank, but the layout is too weird.

I know what you mean.  I've had a XT for several years, and it's in great shape, but I never used it much because of the layout.  I kept trying to figure out clever ways to remap keys or even mod it to make it usable, but it seemed like a code I couldn't crack.  There was no way.  Finally I decided, as an experiment, to simply hook it up to my main desktop system (the Thelio with Ubuntu MATE) almost exactly as-is, and try running it as my daily driver for a while.  And to my surprise. . .  It's not bad.  It's actually working very well for me.

When touch-typing, I had to learn to reach further for that left Shift key, and the Return key, and to find that odd little Backspace, but that was only a matter of practice.  I am back up to 90–100 WPM now.  Ubuntu has lots of keyboard layout options, and one I chose was to use Caps Lock as my Compose key, and to use a press of both Shift keys together to toggle Caps Lock (which I do actually use once in a while).  The only thing I remapped on the keyboard itself, using sctools, was Scroll Lock (the world's most useless key) as F12, because I wanted F12 to control FS-UAE.  So. . .  Aside from Caps Lock and Scroll Lock, every key on the board does just what the label says.

I had to deal with no Windows/Command/Super key or Fn key, but it turned out that all the shortcuts I used those for could be reassigned to Alt.  In theory some of those could conflict with an application shortcut, but it hasn't been a problem yet.

And on the plus side. . .  The build quality, look and feel are, of course, fantastic.  Its so heavy, my desk mat doesn't shift anymore.  The pencil shelf is handy.  I always liked the F-keys on the left.  And the num pad pulling double duty as nav cluster is surprisingly efficient.  So I guess my advice is. . .  Don't be scared away by how bad you imagine the layout might be.

I do have a new F77 on order, which of course I expect to be fantastic, but really I'm getting by Just Fine until then on the XT.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 11 July 2021, 21:15:43 »
I'm ideally looking at a TKL board, but anything could work, as long as it has arrow keys (so most 60% boards are out). In a perfect world, I'd like one with hotswappable switches, as I'm a huge fan of MX Greens and BOX Navies (neither of which tend to come new on prebuilts), but I'm willing to swap switches the hard way if need be.
No hot swap will ever be as durable as a Model M, it can't.
That doesn't mean they can't be nice or a tank and reasonably priced.

For a high end hot swap aluminum chunker, take a look at the GMMK Pro (TKL) or the Novelkeys NK65, (65%) both are pretty beefy without being insanely costly. The NK65 is hefty for such a small board (heavier than a model M) and not only can you get replacement pcbs but word is it's a good pcb. Both are even programmable and while not cheap aren't ultra expensive either. Do a full lube mod and get a the full custom build experience. Another option is similar to what you have, but disposable, just get a normal GMMK (60, TKL and full size) and again, lube everything. This is probably the best budget board you can buy and cheap enough that when it fails just go buy another barebones and move your parts.

If you want something that will last, there's Leopold, but they don't have a ton of heft compared to the aluminum ones listed above. Check out WASD who sells an aluminum case similar to the old TKL Vortex Filco case, I think they even offer them with green switches. This is the most expensive option of everything I listed, neither of these have rgb or hot swap, making them hard to lube (not that it matters if you've never experienced it), but these are sure to last a very long time.

Do you really care if it lasts 50 years?
It's a nice idea but do you expect anyone to really use it by then? Any decent one should last years , beyond that, meh. We aren't talking a building or property or investment, or something that takes years to pay off with a loan, it's just a keyboard that costs a fraction of a paycheck. Buy something you will enjoy.
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Offline nataku411

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Re: Searching for a heavy, durable brick of a keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 12 July 2021, 11:14:03 »
Model F Keyboards seem built like a tank, but the layout is too weird.
122s, ATs, and a few other more obscure Fs can be easily modded to have a different layout.
If you're looking for a tkl or 75% type layout the repro f77 is pretty close, just with no f-keys. It's also compatible with QMK and has a full metal case.

Other than the terrible stabs I love my new F77.  Thing must weight close to 15lbs with its solid zinc case.
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