Alright, lets start with some simple facts:
1. In the actual group buy, I received 126 red mod sets. I paid the group buy price for them, and bought 5 extras. Those were essentially all sold before the keycaps were sent to me, as preorders. There may have been 1 leftover but it doesn't really matter.
2. Signature plastics mistakenly sent me ~200 red mod sets, even now I'm not sure of the actual number because I was too busy getting orders out and sorting things to actually count everything.
3. I proposed a solution whereby I refund $7 to each person pre red mod kit who had bought in the group buy, and a larger refund to those who preordered leftovers, totaling nearly $1,000 in refunds. I would give that refund by liquidating the red mods on behalf of SP for $20 a kit. As those keys weren't mine, I would pay (an amount never determined but was supposed to be "their cost") SP for them, in installments as they sold. This, for some reason seemed shady to demik, Mkawa (who hasn't been trolling me since, need to make that clear) litster, and sth, and they threw up their pitchforks and got me to not do it. Their main concern stemmed from the undetermined potential for profit on my end if I managed to sell all 200 sets. At $20 they certainly would have sold fast at the outset, but I'm still doubtful I'd be able to sell them all. If not all of them were sold, it is likely that I would make nothing and potentially SP wouldn't even recoup all of the lost money from making them.
4. I never lied and said that Melissa would lose her job if my proposal was rejected.
I was afraid she might, meaning I
THOUGHT it was possible, but never spoke to her about whether she might be losing her job. I was, of course, mistaken. I never ever intended that statement to try and fearmonger people into accepting my proposed plan, no do I think, to this day, that the most obvious interpretation of it is that way. If I had spoken that in a conversation my hyperbole would have been much more clear. Again I am sorry for any confusion, as I typed that too hastily.
5. I bought 50 of the mistakenly made extra red mod kits, and paid about what SP is selling them for on their website. I would assume this could be close to their cost on making the set, but it certainly isn't my place to make assumptions on their profit margins. Its certainly also possible they're selling each set at a loss too, given the evidence from other mistaken sales. Regardless, those are all paid for and the leftovers have been sent back to SP, which they're now selling- obviously.
6. During the thread, I stated that in order to avoid giving a bunch of refunds and/or price discrimination, I would permanently lower the leftover price for the red mod kits from $40 to $35, which I later put on sale at $30 because they weren't selling. Remember at the time I set the price at $40 I had only 5 sets to sell, and I mentioned the price of the leftovers
after preorders were done would be $40, but I only ever sold them at $35 due to the "preorder discount." Obviously since I had the option to buy more sets at a lower price I could no longer in good conscience sell them at the original price I had planned. However $35 was as low as I was willing to go because I didn't want to give everyone refunds.
7. Did I know that SP would eventually sell their sets? Yes. Did I know how much they would sell them for? No. Did I attempt to sway their price in any way to protect my markup? No. As of the time of this writing I still have 12 red mod kits unsold, totaling over $200 in "inventory" that I will no longer be able to make any margin on. Am I fine with that? Yes. I did see this coming. I will offer the remaining leftovers at $18 each plus shipping.
8. The obvious question that follows is what about everyone that paid $35 for their sets? Well I'm certainly not planning on offering mass refunds. Again if you want someone to blame for that, look at the list above in item #3. You see, if I refund everyone the difference or in full and you guys buy them from SP, you pay a lower cost than those that participated in the group buy. That isn't fair at all in my eyes, as those people are the ones that got these made in the first place.
9. So what am I doing with all the money I made off of selling the extra leftovers? Well I'm keeping some of it of course, but as of this moment I am planning on sending a $350 donation to Geekhack. I'm not sending that today because I have a bunch of bills and travelling to do over the next couple of weeks, but depleting the money I have sitting in my inventory would certainly help with that. Regardless, that is a commitment from me to do so, and it will happen sooner rather than later. If I don't do that I'm fine with being banned or w/e. If you guys want to do the math thats more than half of the money I've made off of selling the extras. I think that's pretty fair imo. I'm sure the Rag hate crew won't be satisfied until I donate every last dime I've made. XD
10. I am going to apply for a vendor subforum and start transitioning my services into more of a business form, as I have recognized the argument that the hate crew has been trying to make and I agree I should be in a vendor position. Again that will be done soon, when I have time, because with 17 credits of mostly senior and post graduate level classes, a wedding in Canada this weekend, and stuff that needs to be done for my other hobbies, I don't have much. Thus why my latest round of group buys have been delayed over a month. Never fear though, as I said previously, I've already bought the PBT keys from SP for the Imsto dyesub group buy, and they get here soon. I'm going to try and get that thread up next week, as well as the PBT full keysets.
11. I fully support you guys buying these keys from SP directly, it helps them recoup their losses and supports a great relationship our community has with their company. They've got ~150 to sell and I've got a dozen, and buying them from me only helps me make the donation sooner, so its up to you where you want the money to go.
Okay, so there's the rundown. I'm now going to address some quoted posts that fill in the gaps. Before all of that I'd like to thank everyone that voiced their support and defense of me, its what kept me from throwing in the towel. Its pretty hard to argue 4v1.
right, Rag bought them at $35 each from SP and sold them for $30 because he is a good guy.
Yup, you are right I don't have the facts of the exact transaction between Rag and SP. But I know these:
At 200 keycap tier, SP charges:
1x @ $0.95 each
1.25x 1.5x, 1.75x @ $1.24 each
2x @ $1.27 each
2.25x 2.75x @ $1.89 each
At 250 keycap tier, SP charges:
1x @ $0.71 each
1.25x 1.5x, 1.75x @ $1.14 each
2x @ $1.17 each
2.25x 2.75x @ $1.79 each
- These prices includes SP's COGs and production cost and profit margin
- In his Red Alert thread, he claimed that the modifier set only reached the 100 set tier.
- At least 200 sets and possibly 250 sets of these red mods were made.
- He made up a story about how Melissa at SP made this mistake of making the red modifiers incorrectly and she may lose her job to get more people to buy the left over caps, but it was not true
- He said he is going to give the profit back to SP but has not said how much
- He said he is going to give the profit back to SP but has not said when
- SP is selling the same set for $18 that Rag has been selling them for $30
- Rag has said he makes enough money from group buys to pay for his rent
- You assert that at $18 is selling them below cost
- You assert that Rag could have bought them at more than $30/set and is selling them at a loss
- I assert that he bought them for around the same price that SP is selling them at $18, if not lower, and is selling them at $30/set
- I assert that he makes $12 profit or more for each set he sells
We can draw our own conclusion.
A) Lets go off of your 200 tier, since I'm totally sure that's what they used because you're always right. It does not include the price of the spacebar though, so we'll just go with $3.25 for it, a reasonable approximation.
19 1x keys @ $.95 = $18.05
9 1.25x,1.5x,1.75 keys @ $1.24 = $11.16
1 2x key @ $1.27 = $1.27
4 2.25x,2.75x keys @ $1.79 = $7.16
1 6.25x spacebar= $3.25 = $3.25
Total: $40.89
I think your numbers are bunk, because that's not even close to what they charge. When its a set its a completely different algorithm than individual keys. I don't know it, you don't, and pretending we do will only lead to bad assumptions and more drama. You're right in some of your assertions, as explained above, but a lot of it is bs too.
The purpose of GBs is to benefit the community. You get to a point where the same money can get 50% more kit or whatever and you buy 50% more and hold a lottery. 98% of that 50% goes to randomly selected buyers, 2% you keep and do wtf.
We discussed this a long time ago after my first group buy, but I'm not a big fan of lotteries. Who do we determine is eligible? Group buy participants right? Well most of them have no use for another set, since most of them already have one or don't want one. If we open it up to anyone that enters, and it goes to someone that wasn't in the group buy the gets a free set without contributing to the group buy in any way. The buyup to the next price break does little more than subsidize leftovers purchased, and with the cost of full sets, its not that significant. This is another dead horse and I'm not going to discuss it further. Since I'm going to become a vendor leftovers make sense.
This next quote is too big to repost, but Soarer is nearly 100% accurate here and I think it deserves more recognition.
Re: Re: Red Modifier Set direct from SP for $18/set + shippingI've come to the conclusion that the "Rag hate mafia" had previously discussed going after me and jumped on me the next chance they got, blowing a normal discussion about a proposal into a flamewar that has had them calling me a liar, cheat, pu$$y and many other derogatory terms that can only be interpreted as a personal attack- where it is no longer about keycaps as much as about ostracizing me. It has progressed to the point of where I no longer feel comfortable posting in most areas of the forum because they usually stalk my posts and reply to them with more slander and personal attacks. I've repeatedly asked the mods and admins about it with some success. Hopefully this post will alleviate as many of their problems with me as possible. I don't wish to do business with any of them at this point, but hopefully they can at least go after someone else for a change and leave me alone.
Nope, a 2k mess up wouldn't put SP out of business (nice little sob story on Rag's part).
Could constant messing up from one person get said person fired? Yes, that's possible.
But silly me, Soared didn't believe it so why should I? Next time I'm told something I'll double check with you if I should believe it or not.
Actually, no, I won't.
But I'm done with this. You can sit there and keep going at it with Lit. Rag can come in here and try to justify his 12 dollar mark up by blaming me, kawa, sth and lit. All of you will eat it up because he will make himself look like a martyr.
I honestly do not care anymore. Nothing I say will keep him from doing what he does. Nothing I say will stop people from paying him for stuff others do FOR the community. Nothing I say will keep him from lying and nickel and diming. So, why bother?
I'm officially done with anything that has to do with Rag.
Which is exactly why I was afraid she might get fired. There have been mistakes with the majority of the group buys we've had done, and every one of mine. At the time, though I haven't been keeping tabs on it since, basically every one of the last dozen orders needed some level of fixing. The red mods were a pretty expensive one, along with the mistaken portal keys, so I thought it was a pretty reasonable fear at the time. Obviously I was just panicking but I certainly wasn't lying or misleading anyone, you're just trying to paint me that way.
I'm exceptionally glad you're done, because I've been done with you for a while now. I wish you the best on your endeavours at getting in shape, from what you've said, it seems you need it.
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