Author Topic: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod  (Read 1470 times)

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Offline tonyv_73

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IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 12:27:36 »
Hello, new member here,

I recently purchased an IBM model F AT, That I plan to ANSI / Alt mod, I've been considering modifying case to add a set of windows keys. I was wondering what would be the easiest way to get switches there.  I was thinking of adding copper foil tape to the PCB and soldering leads to connect somewhere on the controller.  I know this is a mighty task, but the case on the AT is damaged anyway.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 13:52:23 »
Hello, new member here,

I recently purchased an IBM model F AT, That I plan to ANSI / Alt mod, I've been considering modifying case to add a set of windows keys. I was wondering what would be the easiest way to get switches there.  I was thinking of adding copper foil tape to the PCB and soldering leads to connect somewhere on the controller.  I know this is a mighty task, but the case on the AT is damaged anyway.

Welcome to Geekhack tonyv_73.

Capacitive sensing is extremely finicky/picky, and the F AT doesn't even have existing sensors on the PCB where you would put a Windows key. I don't think that this has ever been done before with a DIY modification. Even if tapping into the matrix and using foil tape to try to measure capacitance ends up working, I have no idea whether or not it will play nicely with existing firmwares. Pandrew (on Deskthority) said that even the reproduction F62 and F77 boards don't send signals identical to the original IBM boards, and nobody knows how the original Model F controllers function. He and Ellipse probably know the most about this, since pandrew ported QMK to the xwhatsit controllers commonly used with the Model F and Ellipse is still in the midst of coordinating the resurrection of the 4704 Models F.

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 14:25:47 »
I'm certain putting windows keys on an AT is some kind of sacrilege.
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 14:48:50 »
I'm certain putting windows keys on an AT is some kind of sacrilege.

Is an ANSI mod not sacrilege? I won't be doing it to any of my boards, and I actually kind of see that as a nice unintended consequence of the explosion of demand for the Models F. It is making less and less sense to carry out extensive modifications of an original board to modify the layout to suit your needs when you can just buy a new F62 or F77 with whatever layout you like, so we should see less and less F ATs being modified and just kept in their original configuration for posterity as a result as their prices continue to shoot up.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 14:55:33 »
The ANSI mod with Alt keys is not an easy one but it is very satisfying and solves multiple problems with the F AT.

The very easy solution is to do it and re-map one of the new Alt keys or one of the Controls to be Windows.

I don't see how anything else could realistically work, unless there is a 2U key with an unused connection under one half.
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Offline tonyv_73

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Re: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 23:29:57 »
Hello, new member here,

I recently purchased an IBM model F AT, That I plan to ANSI / Alt mod, I've been considering modifying case to add a set of windows keys. I was wondering what would be the easiest way to get switches there.  I was thinking of adding copper foil tape to the PCB and soldering leads to connect somewhere on the controller.  I know this is a mighty task, but the case on the AT is damaged anyway.

Welcome to Geekhack tonyv_73.

Capacitive sensing is extremely finicky/picky, and the F AT doesn't even have existing sensors on the PCB where you would put a Windows key. I don't think that this has ever been done before with a DIY modification. Even if tapping into the matrix and using foil tape to try to measure capacitance ends up working, I have no idea whether or not it will play nicely with existing firmwares. Pandrew (on Deskthority) said that even the reproduction F62 and F77 boards don't send signals identical to the original IBM boards, and nobody knows how the original Model F controllers function. He and Ellipse probably know the most about this, since pandrew ported QMK to the xwhatsit controllers commonly used with the Model F and Ellipse is still in the midst of coordinating the resurrection of the 4704 Models F.

I do love the new F77 and I plan on buying one however I like the layout of the F AT more with the left function keys. I understand that a “windows mod” would be probably crazy, I was just hoping that there was a way to key the two keys to communicate with an xwhatsit controller or any other controller option there is for an F AT. I’ve researched the ansi and alt mods extensively and believe me if I could have an F107 I would. I just want to do something different. I know this hasn’t been done before (if it has it isn’t on the web) and as I stated above the AT I own has a damaged case anyway, so it’s not a collectors piece. If I can get over this hurdle my next task would be adding a solenoid as well. That being said, one step at a time.

Offline tonyv_73

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Re: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 16 April 2021, 20:56:01 »
Hello, new member here,

I recently purchased an IBM model F AT, That I plan to ANSI / Alt mod, I've been considering modifying case to add a set of windows keys. I was wondering what would be the easiest way to get switches there.  I was thinking of adding copper foil tape to the PCB and soldering leads to connect somewhere on the controller.  I know this is a mighty task, but the case on the AT is damaged anyway.

Welcome to Geekhack tonyv_73.

Capacitive sensing is extremely finicky/picky, and the F AT doesn't even have existing sensors on the PCB where you would put a Windows key. I don't think that this has ever been done before with a DIY modification. Even if tapping into the matrix and using foil tape to try to measure capacitance ends up working, I have no idea whether or not it will play nicely with existing firmwares. Pandrew (on Deskthority) said that even the reproduction F62 and F77 boards don't send signals identical to the original IBM boards, and nobody knows how the original Model F controllers function. He and Ellipse probably know the most about this, since pandrew ported QMK to the xwhatsit controllers commonly used with the Model F and Ellipse is still in the midst of coordinating the resurrection of the 4704 Models F.

So just to be clear, with a new controller there’s no way to add two switches in general?

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 16 April 2021, 21:11:25 »

there’s no way to add two switches in general?


If you have never seen the inside of an IBM Model M/F it may be a bit hard to explain, but there really aren't "switches" in the usual sense of the word.

There are, however, unused sensing pads that can be brought to life when the layers are peeled apart, and re-mapping them is relatively easy.
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Offline tonyv_73

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Re: IBM Model F AT - ANSI plus Alt mod plus Windows Key mod
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 15:21:30 »
yes I have seen the inside of a M/F, so to put it in your terms.... is it possible to add sensing pads using foil tape and solder and connect it to the PCB to add 2 switches where the blank spaces are.... I know that there are no sensing pads underneath where I want to put the windows key switches... im asking if anyones done it before, and if not, where the best place would be to solder these switches with a new controller.