[IC] ePBT SimpleJA - GB has begun

[ai03]

SimpleJA

Current status: GB is live; GB thread here.


SimpleJA attempts to recreate the vintage "cross-positioned" legends which were common on many vintage Japanese keyboards.

Many hours of research were conducted to create legends that are as genuine to the originals as possible.

Historically used legends from vintage boards were implemented wherever possible; those that did not exist were crafted carefully to match the others.




Design Decisions

The basic white/beige color scheme was chosen as a neutral colorway that matches both the vintage style of the keyset as well as newer sleek keyboards.

The modifier keys were kept all-Japanese for a uniform look.





Kits

Base Kit
Enough keys to fill most form factors below TKL size.

Spacebars Kit
1x 6U Convex
2x 3U Convex
1x 2.75U Convex
1x 2.25U Convex
1x 2U Convex
2x 1.5U Convex
2x 1U

Numpad Kit
Keys to fill a numpad, whether regular, all-1U, or part of a 1800 layout.
The order of the 1U modifiers are based on the style found on the NEC PC-8801 and PC-9801 series.

Ortho Kit
Many 1U keys which can help fill ortholinear and smaller ergonomic boards.

Function Kit
Includes both a vertical M1-M10 cluster for XT/AT inspired layouts, as well as a F13-F24 cluster for 122-key inspired battleships.

Renders

The legends in the renders appear a tad thinner than the source graphic for some reason.





Timeline

Once samples are confirmed and pricing is set, GB will begin.


Push updates

If you would like to receive push updates for the project, please join my Discord server and obtain the simple-ja role by running the following command: .iam SimpleJA

[ai03]

FAQ

Q. Who will produce this keyset?
A. Likely EnjoyPBT. I still need to get quotes and all if there is enough interest.

Q. How much will it cost?
A. Unknown as of now, although I'll guesstimate that it'll be close to existing ePBT sets. If there seems to be enough interest, I'll grab a quote and report back.

Q. What keyboards did you reference for the legends?
A. Quite a few. Mainly the NEC PC-82/88/9801 series, Sharp X1/68000, Fujitsu FM-Towns, Oasys, and various others.

Q. I don't like the winkeys. Can I use something else in its place?
A. The 拡張機能 (Extended Functionality) keys will likely be the best replacement.

Q. Why are there so few convex keys in the spacebar kit?
A. Mainly due to ePBT mold limitations.

Q. Will there be other colorways available for the legends later?
A. Possibly in the future, but for now I'll stick to the milk white/beige coloring.

Q. Why is the row numbering on the kit images reversed?
A. For some reason, ePBT numbers them that way, reverse of the usual.

Q. Why are <insert keys> missing?
A. Because I'm terribly uneducated regarding keyset compat beyond the typical ANSI. If I'm missing something obvious, please let me know and I'll add it in ASAP.

Q. What boards are those in the renders?
A. Polaris and KBD8X MKII.

Q. Are the F13-F24 keys in the function kit really necessary?
A. Yes.

[Pwner]

Yes

[fcoury]

Love it. There's a Leopold vibe to the legend proportions that I really dig.

[Paddel06]

Finally a set with the bottom ろ!

[jaang]

Excited for this, can't wait!

[KawabataLuis]

Count me in

[InvidiousIgnoramus]

I'm setting aside money immediately. That function kit is an absolute deal breaker for me, finally being able to have function columns with proper rowing. Accurate legends is a major plus too!

[.Udon]

GB when

[_ODIN_]

Very nice, highly interested.

Gesendet von meinem H8416 mit Tapatalk

[Capsy]

Well that's some entry into keyset design Ai

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Tom_Kazansky]

vertical functions keys...
Numpad: 1u Enter, "," key

  ohohohohohohoh


this set match so well with my upcoming board
guess I'm buying everything except ortho... 

[ullr]

I'm in, looks great OP. Love the JIS support.

[barkerjames]

LOVE

[macclack]

So clean. Definitely in.

[pixelpusher]

I mean, if I can get like 4 of each stabilized key included in the base set for when they don't fit properly on the stabilizers

P.S... can we get these in GMK instead?

[ai03]

I mean, if I can get like 4 of each stabilized key included in the base set for when they don't fit properly on the stabilizers

P.S... can we get these in GMK instead?

Sure; if you pay the several hundred thousand dollars for the molds, I'll happily do it for you

[pixelpusher]

I mean, if I can get like 4 of each stabilized key included in the base set for when they don't fit properly on the stabilizers

P.S... can we get these in GMK instead?

Sure; if you pay the several hundred thousand dollars for the molds, I'll happily do it for you

I wish there was some way to fix the darn stabilized keys.  I've got 3 sets of ePBT that I can't use.  They look and feel nice, but I kinda need my space bar to come back up after I press it down

[ai03]

I mean, if I can get like 4 of each stabilized key included in the base set for when they don't fit properly on the stabilizers

P.S... can we get these in GMK instead?

Sure; if you pay the several hundred thousand dollars for the molds, I'll happily do it for you

I wish there was some way to fix the darn stabilized keys.  I've got 3 sets of ePBT that I can't use.  They look and feel nice, but I kinda need my space bar to come back up after I press it down

1. Heat spacebar with hairdryer until somewhat pliable
2. Ever so slightly overbend beyond neutral
3. Dunk into cold water or under running water, retaining the shape
4. Dry completely. Enjoy

[smoian]

I really like this!

[nguyenhimself]

Heh, accidental kaomoji.



I'm in. This is the sort of wacky-yet-classic sets that ẸnoyPBT should be known for. Keep it weird!

[nguyenhimself]

[deleted upon reconsideration]

[hpdung99]

Finally JIS support xD

[ddnomad]

Do like the keyset! Looking forward to the GB.

[Nigolski]

very interested!

[pixelpusher]

I mean, if I can get like 4 of each stabilized key included in the base set for when they don't fit properly on the stabilizers

P.S... can we get these in GMK instead?

Sure; if you pay the several hundred thousand dollars for the molds, I'll happily do it for you

I wish there was some way to fix the darn stabilized keys.  I've got 3 sets of ePBT that I can't use.  They look and feel nice, but I kinda need my space bar to come back up after I press it down

1. Heat spacebar with hairdryer until somewhat pliable
2. Ever so slightly overbend beyond neutral
3. Dunk into cold water or under running water, retaining the shape
4. Dry completely. Enjoy

The space bars I have from my slate set are all perfectly flat. If you measure from stem to stem they are about ~1mm off.  Flatness isn’t the issue for me

[hpdung99]

Since this is kind of a JIS support set, is there any chance that we can get a 4.5u spacebar?

Also because I'm not so sure, is the current set fully support a minila air JIS?

[ai03]

Since this is kind of a JIS support set, is there any chance that we can get a 4.5u spacebar?

Also because I'm not so sure, is the current set fully support a minila air JIS?

I'm pretty sure that EnjoyPBT doesn't own all of the molds required for full JIS bottom row.

[senryo]

Will there be 9009 themed accents to match this color?

[RSC]

101% in for this! Looks amazing.

[stoic-lemon]

This is really cool.

[dantambok]

100% in baby!

[voight-kampff]

very nice

[equalunique]

This set meets so many of my requirements, it's pretty amazing!

To completely work on Filco JIS boards, it's gonna need a 4.5u spacebar: https://imgur.com/a/kBFKi7j

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

[ullr]

Unfortunately I don't think that Enjoy PBT has 4.5u or 2.5u space bars that so many JIS boards use. I wonder if there isn't some other manufacturer they could be sourced from, though.

[equalunique]

Unfortunately I don't think that Enjoy PBT has 4.5u or 2.5u space bars that so many JIS boards use. I wonder if there isn't some other manufacturer they could be sourced from, though.

Well, maybe they'll see the interest here, and decide to make some? They went ahead and created 3u convex spacebars. Both 2.5u & 4.5u would follow a similar process.

If not then I will go with SA 128K since SP already has the necessary molds for a bottom now - they've done it already for Filco's fullsize and TKL JIS boards. The likleyhood of compatibility is higher, but unfortunately not cherry profile.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

[nguyenhimself]

Unfortunately I don't think that Enjoy PBT has 4.5u or 2.5u space bars that so many JIS boards use. I wonder if there isn't some other manufacturer they could be sourced from, though.

Well, maybe they'll see the interest here, and decide to make some? They went ahead and created 3u convex spacebars. Both 2.5u & 4.5u would follow a similar process.

If not then I will go with SA 128K since SP already has the necessary molds for a bottom now - they've done it already for Filco's fullsize and TKL JIS boards. The likleyhood of compatibility is higher, but unfortunately not cherry profile.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

I imagine, ROI-wise, it’d be a hard sell for them.
The 3.0u’s mold exists because the Filco Minila Air is a big hit in various Asian countries, including China.
It’s practically the main reason why every set needs a 3.0u keycap.
Only Japanese folks use JIS, and judging from the recent Tokyo meetup, they don’t seem to mind non-JIS layouts.

[Genuine.Senpai]

Bookmarked this thread for an hopeful update. I'd buy it.

[Emir]

Kind of difficult to pass up, let's get it

[Blank]

must have

[ai03]

Seems like there's enough positive feedback so far to go ahead; I'll tune up the kits and send it into ePBT for a quote.

[barrel]

Surely in such a beautiful Japanese Keyset we can't be missing out on JIS Support, can we? There's basically two kinds of JIS You'd actually have to cater to; Realforce JIS (Proper JIS) and HHKB JP (Lots of 1Us)

Here is a picture of a Realforce JIS Board, I'll get accurate key sizes in a little bit.

Meanwhile, here is a picture of a HHKB Type JP, something I know a few people here have with Novatouch stems who would most likely love your set.


Generally you need a 1U backspace, a Yen key on the top row, two 1.25U keys for changing scripts and 4.75U Spacebar (I think) for JIS.

[vexl]

this looks awesome, i'm interested

[nguyenhimself]

Surely in such a beautiful Japanese Keyset we can't be missing out on JIS Support, can we? There's basically two kinds of JIS You'd actually have to cater to; Realforce JIS (Proper JIS) and HHKB JP (Lots of 1Us)

Here is a picture of a Realforce JIS Board, I'll get accurate key sizes in a little bit.

Show Image

Meanwhile, here is a picture of a HHKB Type JP, something I know a few people here have with Novatouch stems who would most likely love your set.

Show Image

Generally you need a 1U backspace, a Yen key on the top row, two 1.25U keys for changing scripts and 4.75U Spacebar (I think) for JIS.

This is not a Topre set though?

[ullr]

Customs occasionally support JIS right shift (GH60, Clueboard, Noxary 268 pcb but not plate - off the top of my head) but much more rarely a bottom row with enough keys for a JIS layout, and the vast majority of mass produced JIS keyboards have spacebars that don't really exist in custom sets (2.5u, 4.5u). To me it makes sense to compromise most on the bottom row for this reason. It appears that there are at least just enough 1u and 1.25u keys though? There aren't enough 1.5u keys for some other Realforce layouts on the other hand.

[voight-kampff]

Regarding the colours, personally I would prefer a greyish set, there are guite a few beige kits with japanese sublegends already.

Sent from my MIX using Tapatalk

[stoic-lemon]

I'd say ai03 is pretty familiar with Japanese keysets.

[Pheyn]

Regarding the colours, personally I would prefer a greyish set, there are guite a few beige kits with japanese sublegends already.

Sent from my MIX using Tapatalk

+1 for this. I mean, I'm probably still in even if it ends up beige. But if you look at all the epbt sets out there, like 90% are beige so I'd be down for a more granite/muted look instead.

[barrel]

Surely in such a beautiful Japanese Keyset we can't be missing out on JIS Support, can we? There's basically two kinds of JIS You'd actually have to cater to; Realforce JIS (Proper JIS) and HHKB JP (Lots of 1Us)

Here is a picture of a Realforce JIS Board, I'll get accurate key sizes in a little bit.

Show Image

Meanwhile, here is a picture of a HHKB Type JP, something I know a few people here have with Novatouch stems who would most likely love your set.

Show Image

Generally you need a 1U backspace, a Yen key on the top row, two 1.25U keys for changing scripts and 4.75U Spacebar (I think) for JIS.

This is not a Topre set though?

Plenty of people use Novatouch or JTK MX Compatible stems on those boards and wat something that fits into a Japanese aesthetic, it's also more options in terms of split spacebar layouts, I just happened to choose Topre boards because they're what I wanted to show it off on.

[riesz]

Very interested if this stays PBT.

[nguyenhimself]

I’m in either way, but OP, would you consider a more... muted colorway while still keeping the beige look?
I’m not talking “GMK Muted” muted, but something like a lighter share of brown for the mods.  Similar to what GMK Modern Dolch did to Dolch.
Just some thoughts

[cepate11]

The only thing I would say is I think the grey on the modifiers can be a tad bit lighter. Love this set!

[monkt]

Unlike a couple other opinions offered, I really like the colors exactly as you have them in the renders right now. I think what you have captures the intended aesthetic perfectly. I would buy this without hesitation.

[dr_unconscionable]

This looks great. Clean and classy. I think the colours are good as is, but small adjustments to the mod colour wouldn't trouble me by any means.

[1corazon]

Count me in !!!!!!! Cant wait for this!!!!!

[Magik]

Soo lit! love it!

[ai03]

The shade of beige will probably differ from the render a bit.
I'm planning on asking ePBT to use the same color they use for their super generic white/beige sets.

[8BitDuck]

Absolutely love this set

[Freakenstein]

TOOOOOOOOOOO many Japanese keysets……Just getting tired of it.
But I'm in

[Blank]

Any updates?

[ai03]

Any updates?

Currently discussing with ePBT regarding new homing keys (I.e. scooped only) that don't interfere with the cross legends. Once such things are finalized, I'll ask for a quote and start the GB.

[hansikhouse]

Very excited for this!

[BigBabyJesus]

Yes!

[coffeeshopcoder]

Yes . lets get going on this...

[SuddenlyDonkey]

This look so clean. 

[c3h]

Looks pretty nice, though I'm a fan of a shorter spacebar. (Finding a custom PCB that supports such layout is going to be a pain )

Also a few things to point out.

1. The placement of ~(tilda)
Keys [@`~] and [^ヘ] should be grouped [@`゛] and [^~ヘ].
Interesting that the PC-98s had it the other way around.

2. The [半角 全角] key
 The [半角 全角] key usually has a /(slash) next to 半角 so making it [半角/ 全角] might look nicer

3. The [_ロ] key
Many retro keyboards and modern Mac keyboards still have [_ロ] but the modern [_ロ] key usually also has a \(backslash) so making it [\_ロ] should be nicer.

[SmithersDotTV]

I’m interested

[ai03]

Looks pretty nice, though I'm a fan of a shorter spacebar. (Finding a custom PCB that supports such layout is going to be a pain )

Also a few things to point out.

1. The placement of ~(tilda)
Keys [@`~] and [^ヘ] should be grouped [@`゛] and [^~ヘ].
Interesting that the PC-98s had it the other way around.

2. The [半角 全角] key
 The [半角 全角] key usually has a /(slash) next to 半角 so making it [半角/ 全角] might look nicer

3. The [_ロ] key
Many retro keyboards and modern Mac keyboards still have [_ロ] but the modern [_ロ] key usually also has a \(backslash) so making it [\_ロ] should be nicer.

1. Those legends mainly follow the PC-8801 boards on this keyset.
2. Having a trailing slash looks strange.
3. I will focus on recreating vintage legends, since that is the theme of this set.

Also, the files have been sent in for quotes/samples.

[hammerbrotha]

Looks great, i'd be in for a set for sure if it's ePBT.

[Kaiju]

Definitely in for this. Pretty much everything I'm looking for in a set. Muted colors, modern look with a classic vibe, Japanese sub-legends, pbt, it's my perfect set haha.

[nguyenhimself]

Muted colors

It won't be muted. OP is shooting for the classic EnjoyPBT beige look.
This is my only sticking point right now, though that's just 'cause I already have 2 sets of EnjoyPBT and would prefer something a bit different

[megaforce]

yes

[lightsout714]

These are very clean, interested.

[EMC Labs]

Looks very clean. Very original idea.

[c3h]

From what I know, there are two variations of PC-8800 series keyboards regarding the legends.
The earlier variants feature katakana legends, have no ~`{} keys and have , instead of 、with the ネ(ne) key.
The later variants, the ones with split spacebar, feature hiragana legends, do have {} keys, have ¦(earlier variants have |), have ~ where ` is in modern keyboards but still have no ` key.
It is somewhere in the PC-9800 series era that the ` key was introduced to the NEC keyboards, although it was initially placed where the ~ is in modern keyboards.

[EMC Labs]

From what I know, there are two variations of PC-8800 series keyboards regarding the legends.
The earlier variants feature katakana legends, have no ~`{} keys and have , instead of 、with the ネ(ne) key.
The later variants, the ones with split spacebar, feature hiragana legends, do have {} keys, have ¦(earlier variants have |), have ~ where ` is in modern keyboards but still have no ` key.
It is somewhere in the PC-9800 series era that the ` key was introduced to the NEC keyboards, although it was initially placed where the ~ is in modern keyboards.

I didn't even know the legends were from a keyboard. Interesting.

[ilpsxnus]

console 0,25,0,1

The alphas are a dead ringer for my old NEC PC-8001. The mods were all English though.
Love that the function keys are prefixed with a small "f".

Will get one for sure!

[SuddenlyDonkey]

still waiting on quotes and samples?

[ai03]

still waiting on quotes and samples?

Sample seems to be just about ready.



Still waiting on quotes.

[Boy_314]

will the stepped control (コントロール) key be offered in any of the kits?

[ai03]

will the stepped control (コントロール) key be offered in any of the kits?

Likely yes. I'll finalize the kits after verifying that the samples turned out fine, and then post a final kits list afterwards.

[voxkey]

This looks great, can't wait.

[ai03]

For reference, here is the planned final list of kits that was used to produce the sample.
Base kit became somewhat sizable in the end.

[SuddenlyDonkey]

alpha samples look crisper than the creaminess of the render. 

Thank you for the update!

[Lil]

The samples are great

[mrkevint]

Really excited for the group buy. Love the historical inspiration and attention to detail on this key set.

[hammerbrotha]

Those samples look off the hook, easy buy for me. i'm in. any ideas who the vendor will be for the GB?

[ai03]

Those samples look off the hook, easy buy for me. i'm in. any ideas who the vendor will be for the GB?

It'll likely be through KBDfans, since they're one of the few vendors that have the capacity to handle another keyset gb at the moment (most other vendors are currently overloaded with the massive number of GMK sets).

[vicissitude]

Interested.
Love the traditional colorway.

[Tom_Kazansky]

For reference, here is the planned final list of kits that was used to produce the sample.
Base kit became somewhat sizable in the end.

Show Image

hi,
about the Spacebars kit, in the third row, are there two 1.5u keys?
can you replace one with 1.25u key? as I think people who use split spacebar would want 2.25u, 1.25u, 2.75u keys. (I'm one of those people  :)) )

[rockydbull]

Those samples look off the hook, easy buy for me. i'm in. any ideas who the vendor will be for the GB?

It'll likely be through KBDfans, since they're one of the few vendors that have the capacity to handle another keyset gb at the moment (most other vendors are currently overloaded with the massive number of GMK sets).

I really appreciate you helping to keep these epbt sets coming. Everybody and their mother these days wants to run a GMK kit.

[nguyenhimself]

Those samples look off the hook, easy buy for me. i'm in. any ideas who the vendor will be for the GB?

It'll likely be through KBDfans, since they're one of the few vendors that have the capacity to handle another keyset gb at the moment (most other vendors are currently overloaded with the massive number of GMK sets).

I really appreciate you helping to keep these epbt sets coming. Everybody and their mother these days wants to run a GMK kit.

Yea, I love that he (I guess?) is doing all sorts of fun custom legends stuffs, which is simply impossible with GMK or SA.
Same with the upcoming PBT Sanctuary set with its custom fonts:
This is dye-sub PBT’s strength. We should lean more into that.

[ai03]

Samples to arrive at the same time as Polaris prototypes, which will arrive before 8/2 to prepare for display at Maker Faire Tokyo.
Once the samples are checked, GB will begin.

[1corazon]

I need this so badly, PLEASE tell us once this is ready for sale. TAKE ALL MY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have a case ready for this set.

Thank you again for doing this !!!

[Gudbeers]

Really like the look of this. Any chance of getting colemak support though?

[nguyenhimself]

Really like the look of this. Any chance of getting colemak support though?

Those old Japanese keyboards didn’t use Colemak.

[ai03]

Really like the look of this. Any chance of getting colemak support though?

Since the goal is to recreate the vintage legends and samples for the GB have already been produced, there will be no Colemak support.

Samples have been shipped out. Once they arrive and are confirmed fine, GB will begin.

[Lil]

Do you know what pricing will be and how long the gb will run for?

[ai03]

Do you know what pricing will be and how long the gb will run for?

I'll be finalizing price once everything is set kit-wise.

GB will likely run for 30 days or so, unless there is significant reason not to.

[ohetfi]

For reference, here is the planned final list of kits that was used to produce the sample.
Base kit became somewhat sizable in the end.

Show Image

Show Image

I really love all your works and definitely interested in buying this set. I just want to ask about MX HHKB compatibility, please help me to confirm whether the keycap options are there:
1. 1.5u Backspace (R3)
2. 1u Fn (R1)
3. 1.75u Right Shift (R1)
4. 2u Control non-stepped (Caps Lock replacement, R2)
5. 7u Spacebar (R1)
6. 1.5u Command/Code x 2 (WinKey replacement, R1)
7. 1u Alt x 2

I have little knowledge about Katakana and none about Kanji. I saw the layout and seems like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 are already there. Not really sure about 6 and 7. I looked at the FAQ about the WinKey replacement and I saw the "Extended Functionality" button, but looks like it can only be a replacement for ANSI layout (no 1.5u). Is it possible to have them also? And what about point 7?

Thank you!

[SuddenlyDonkey]

Do you know what pricing will be and how long the gb will run for?

I'll be finalizing price once everything is set kit-wise.

GB will likely run for 30 days or so, unless there is significant reason not to.

Are you happy with the samples?  The renders look a lot warmer while the samples look mostly flat gray and white

[ai03]

Do you know what pricing will be and how long the gb will run for?

I'll be finalizing price once everything is set kit-wise.

GB will likely run for 30 days or so, unless there is significant reason not to.

Are you happy with the samples?  The renders look a lot warmer while the samples look mostly flat gray and white

The samples have yet to arrive

My spec to epbt was to use their generic white/beige colorway, so I'd say it turned out exactly as expected.

[forelsket]

everything about this set is perfect. count me in!

[ai03]

Some quick eyecandy.




GB will begin as soon as pricing is set.

[Boy_314]

Can you slip in support for the following from top down 65% column: Home, PgUp, PgDn, End

I think it currently supports Home, End, PgUp, PgDn

[SuddenlyDonkey]

Some quick eyecandy.

Show Image

Show Image

GB will begin as soon as pricing is set.

  woot!  Looks great

[Tom_Kazansky]

Some quick eyecandy.

Show Image

Show Image

GB will begin as soon as pricing is set.

look great!!! 

Can you slip in support for the following from top down 65% column: Home, PgUp, PgDn, End

I think it currently supports Home, End, PgUp, PgDn

we can't have all the combinations, can we?

[Boy_314]

Can you slip in support for the following from top down 65% column: Home, PgUp, PgDn, End

I think it currently supports Home, End, PgUp, PgDn

we can't have all the combinations, can we?

haha I know, it was offered in kuro/shiro which was also epbt, and also offered in gmk, so I figured I might as well ask

[hammerbrotha]

Some quick eyecandy.

Show Image

Show Image

GB will begin as soon as pricing is set.

oh man i can't wait, these samples look awesome.

[ai03]

And out of the blue, the GB has begun.

GB thread prepared; maybe it'll get approved before GB ends.

[Sup]

Oof this is a special set joined for sure 

[SuddenlyDonkey]

Made my purchase, thanks

[rockydbull]

on the kbdfans website it says the split spacebars are convex. Does that mean they will be normal spacebar shape and not the shape of shift keys?

[hammerbrotha]

GB Prices are lower than i expected, easy buy!!

[1corazon]

PAID !!!!! Cant wait to get this, THANK YOU AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Love this Set!!!

[ai03]

GB thread is approved.
For future discussion, please use the thread located here.