Favorite switch lube

[jcoffin1981]

I always feel as if I have to try everything because I feel I may be missing out if I don't.  I am currently working on a few boards with MX Browns.  I've tried Krytox 105, Krytox 205, Tribosys 3203, Tribosys 3204, and Molykote  EM-30 L.  The 105 I have found is too thin to be used and it does seem to migrate, but it works great on springs.  It is also very easy to apply.

Now as far as the other, they are so similar I cannot tell a difference.  The color and texture is virtually the same for all of them, save the Molykote.  Blindly testing I am not able to tell a difference.  What does make a lot of difference is the lubing technique, where and how it is applied, and how much is used.  This seems to be much more important than which product is actually used. 

The Molykote is the only one which is noticably different.  It is thicker than the others, so it is a bit tougher to apply evenly.  The end result is different, but subtle.  I wish I could verbalize the difference but it is difficult to do so.  I think it's my favorite. 
With all that being said, I feel that you should just apply what you already have, or which you can obtain as the best value and use that and to pay more attention to technique above all else. 

Does anyone have a lube they use that they fell is markedly better than all else, or do you feel that application technique trumps all else?

[Leslieann]

Try not to use anything that migrates, especially on a spring.*

At the base any lube on the spring prevents chafe on the stem guide but on the coils it helps prevent ping. If it migrates you're losing that ping dampening and it can also pool in the bottom collecting dust. Then if stored in any position other than flat all that contaminated oil slides back into everything. Later when placed back into use that oil will again migrate but there's no guarantee it will take the contaminants with it.


*The spring has very little friction except at the ends, the only reason you would bother using light lube is ease of application and yet it's the worst place for it since it can use so much and pool so easily. This is especially true if you bag lube which puts excessive amounts on the spring.

[headphone_jack]

For Alps, cannot recommend the boilwax method enough.

[kahlilnc]

I always feel as if I have to try everything because I feel I may be missing out if I don't.  I am currently working on a few boards with MX Browns.  I've tried Krytox 105, Krytox 205, Tribosys 3203, Tribosys 3204, and Molykote  EM-30 L.  The 105 I have found is too thin to be used and it does seem to migrate, but it works great on springs.  It is also very easy to apply.

Now as far as the other, they are so similar I cannot tell a difference.  The color and texture is virtually the same for all of them, save the Molykote.  Blindly testing I am not able to tell a difference.  What does make a lot of difference is the lubing technique, where and how it is applied, and how much is used.  This seems to be much more important than which product is actually used. 

The Molykote is the only one which is noticably different.  It is thicker than the others, so it is a bit tougher to apply evenly.  The end result is different, but subtle.  I wish I could verbalize the difference but it is difficult to do so.  I think it's my favorite. 
With all that being said, I feel that you should just apply what you already have, or which you can obtain as the best value and use that and to pay more attention to technique above all else. 

Does anyone have a lube they use that they fell is markedly better than all else, or do you feel that application technique trumps all else?

Have you attempted to blend oil with the Molykote? People are calling it the Loob-3G.

Overall, using Gazzew's method of applying the "Loob" makes lubing so much quicker.

[jcoffin1981]

Try not to use anything that migrates, especially on a spring.*

At the base any lube on the spring prevents chafe on the stem guide but on the coils it helps prevent ping. If it migrates you're losing that ping dampening and it can also pool in the bottom collecting dust. Then if stored in any position other than flat all that contaminated oil slides back into everything. Later when placed back into use that oil will again migrate but there's no guarantee it will take the contaminants with it.


*The spring has very little friction except at the ends, the only reason you would bother using light lube is ease of application and yet it's the worst place for it since it can use so much and pool so easily. This is especially true if you bag lube which puts excessive amounts on the spring.

The 105 actually beads on the plastic and doesn't retain the even coating.  However, 105 seems to be just about a universal go to for springs.  I don't use the bag method because I don't have much control over how much is applied and it also seems wasteful.  I have also used 105 in the past and I've never had pooling on the bottom or had a spring regress and start to ping again.  A thicker grease may actually be a better choice, but I just dip the ends of the spring and it's so easy.  I don't want to have to start brushing the springs.

Right now I'm more concerned with what I'm using for the switches.  I think I have determined that it does not really matter so much what I use so much as how it's applied.  I was wondering if someone  else had a clear favorite.  I'd like tto use the Molykote, but I don't really see any anectote of anybody using it straight- without mixing it.  Doesn't mean its a bad choice, but I look for "tried and true."

[Leslieann]

If it's beading it's more likely to run, the fact that it hasn't done so means you managed to not overdo it. Put more (such as bag lubing) and it most certainly can and probably will.
I don't bother lubing coils either, just the ends, if a spring is pingy (Cherry and some Kailh), I'd rather just not use it than hope lube makes it quiet. Use whatever is handy.

How it's applied on stems is more important the thicker the lube/softer the spring. The stiffer the spring/lighter the lube the less any of it matters, except as mentioned where it can run.


Regarding lubes, lube matters most at initial use.
Most switches use self lubing plastic, not saying lube doesn't help in the long run, but it's the initial break in where it makes the most difference. Once parts match-wear, it's less of a big deal. Lube will make it take longer and achieve a smoother contact, but just normal use should cause most switches to end up in relatively the same place after a while with only a couple grams difference in spring pressure/friction at best in my informal scientific and limited testing with old switches and lube.

The other thing I always try and stress is that this is not a high demand application.
People put far, far, FAR too much emphasis on this. Besides self lubing plastic, this is not high heat, high endurance, high pressure or a dirty environment. It's about the easiest job any lube has ever had. The only thing special about it is that it's being used on plastics so you should try to refrain from using anything petroleum based or mixing incompatible lubes. So long as the viscosity is in range it should be fine.

[jcoffin1981]

If it's beading it's more likely to run, the fact that it hasn't done so means you managed to not overdo it. Put more (such as bag lubing) and it most certainly can and probably will.
I don't bother lubing coils either, just the ends, if a spring is pingy (Cherry and some Kailh), I'd rather just not use it than hope lube makes it quiet. Use whatever is handy.

How it's applied on stems is more important the thicker the lube/softer the spring. The stiffer the spring/lighter the lube the less any of it matters, except as mentioned where it can run.


Regarding lubes, lube matters most at initial use.
Most switches use self lubing plastic, not saying lube doesn't help in the long run, but it's the initial break in where it makes the most difference. Once parts match-wear, it's less of a big deal. Lube will make it take longer and achieve a smoother contact, but just normal use should cause most switches to end up in relatively the same place after a while with only a couple grams difference in spring pressure/friction at best in my informal scientific and limited testing with old switches and lube.

The other thing I always try and stress is that this is not a high demand application.
People put far, far, FAR too much emphasis on this. Besides self lubing plastic, this is not high heat, high endurance, high pressure or a dirty environment. It's about the easiest job any lube has ever had. The only thing special about it is that it's being used on plastics so you should try to refrain from using anything petroleum based or mixing incompatible lubes. So long as the viscosity is in range it should be fine.

Yes, this kind of echos my feeling in that the choice of lube does not matter so much.  I was not aware of the self-lubing plastic.  I will also say that using lubrication changes the sound of the the keystroke, and most certainly for the better.  What I do like about about the Molykote lube is that it is a "drier" lubrication.  Obviously it does not contain water, but I just referring to the properties of the lube.  Being slightly more viscous and drier, it changes the sound and the feel.  I apply very small amounts of lube, pretty much as thin a layer as you can apply with a brush; but Krytox 205 and similar lubes just sound and feel "goopy" and "wet" in comparison. 

[phinix]

Try not to use anything that migrates, especially on a spring.*

At the base any lube on the spring prevents chafe on the stem guide but on the coils it helps prevent ping. If it migrates you're losing that ping dampening and it can also pool in the bottom collecting dust. Then if stored in any position other than flat all that contaminated oil slides back into everything. Later when placed back into use that oil will again migrate but there's no guarantee it will take the contaminants with it.


*The spring has very little friction except at the ends, the only reason you would bother using light lube is ease of application and yet it's the worst place for it since it can use so much and pool so easily. This is especially true if you bag lube which puts excessive amounts on the spring.

I used Krytox 205 + 105 mix for my Zealios 78s, then bag lubed 105 all springs.
It feels great and I'm happy with it, but now I'm worring long term - would 205_105 mix still moce/slide down the stems?

What lube should I use for tactiles like Zealios?

[Leslieann]

I used Krytox 205 + 105 mix for my Zealios 78s, then bag lubed 105 all springs.
It feels great and I'm happy with it, but now I'm worring long term - would 205_105 mix still moce/slide down the stems?

What lube should I use for tactiles like Zealios?

Can't really say if that combo will slide, I think the bigger question is if it will separate over time. If it separates it will most likely slide unless it gets enough dust in it by then.
I wouldn't worry about it though, by the time it becomes an issue odds are you won't even be using those switches anymore and moved to newer board or switch.

As for what lube,
Ideally, the thickest you can while still being snappy, that point differs based on switch (make and model), spring pressure and even how you lube. If you're sloppy you would want to go extra thin to compensate, if you're super anal and willing to do some break in you can go quite thick without problems. Some people also prefer a bit of raggedness as opposed to being as smooth. All you can do is follow suggestions and do a bit of trial and error.

[jcoffin1981]

Try not to use anything that migrates, especially on a spring.*

At the base any lube on the spring prevents chafe on the stem guide but on the coils it helps prevent ping. If it migrates you're losing that ping dampening and it can also pool in the bottom collecting dust. Then if stored in any position other than flat all that contaminated oil slides back into everything. Later when placed back into use that oil will again migrate but there's no guarantee it will take the contaminants with it.


*The spring has very little friction except at the ends, the only reason you would bother using light lube is ease of application and yet it's the worst place for it since it can use so much and pool so easily. This is especially true if you bag lube which puts excessive amounts on the spring.

I used Krytox 205 + 105 mix for my Zealios 78s, then bag lubed 105 all springs.
It feels great and I'm happy with it, but now I'm worring long term - would 205_105 mix still moce/slide down the stems?

What lube should I use for tactiles like Zealios?

Is there really a benefit to mixing 205 + 105?  The 105 is a little easier to apply, but beside that I don't know that there is a real advantage here.  I just takes a little extra work to spread the 205 around thinly and evenly.  I also found that when using 105 by itself it does not really want to stay put.  It does not stick to the stems and tends to bead up.  Add to this now you have to worry about the two products separating over time.  The 205 is definitely not too viscous to use by itself- actually it is quite favorable. 105 is qutite the opposite.  Am I missing something?

Matter of fact, I encourage others to try the Molykote EM-30-L by itself without thinning it out for lubricating stems.  I really like the sound and the feel.  It may not be a good choice for those who like to apply lube very thickly however as it will probably make the switch feel sluggish.  Also, I paid about $12 bucks for what is probably a 2oz container a couple of years ago- originally as a watchmaking grease.   It will last me my entire keyboard career provided it does not go bad.   I've had to re-up on my Krytox 105 two times now. 

So yes phinix, I think the 205 is a great choice, but go ahead and give the Molykote a whirl.