4704 F62 Kishsaver Restoration Log

[SixtyLife]

2 months into the keyboard hobby I found 60% layout to be ideal for me and about 4 months into it I was lucky enough to find an SSK at an electronic surplus warehouse and try buckling springs for the first time. Also obtained a Model F AT at the same warehouse and instantly became hooked. Since then it's been my dream to own a Kishsaver (the perfect marriage of 60% layout, capacitive BS switch, and rock solid metal casing).

After a futile 7-8 month search through various e-waste facilities and surplus warehouses I put up a WTB in the classifieds for the Kishsaver, to which ninjadoc kindly replied, and yesterday I received my dream board in the mail. I honestly believe this is the last keyboard I'll ever buy.

I'll be documenting my restoration in this thread. I apologize for the ****ty picture quality. Using a 3 year old smartphone as that's the only camera I have. I'm using the following logs as a guide:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75722.0 (thanks pr0ximity)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63267.0 (thanks Pyrelink)

Before:



The case is in pretty good condition. There are maybe 5-6 chips in the paint, with 2 large ones on both bottom corners. I will be keeping the original paint for now, just clean it up a bit. One significant issue is that the whole top of the case curves a bit towards the middle. This is the one thing I won't be able to do myself, and will be looking for a shop to straighten out for me.


Plate Assembly:


As you can see there's major corrosion on the plate. I've never taken any F's apart past this stage so it was definitely a butthole clenching moment. It was nowhere near as bad as expected though. As noted in many restoration logs, out of the 7 tabs, I just had to flip the right corner tab up, then slide the top and bottom plates in opposite directions. Once that was done, I was greeted by this:



I was praying that the foam mat would be in decent condition, but it was not meant to be. Large chunks of the foam ripped off even when carefully removing the barrels:



much of the foam was stuck onto the plate and was difficult to remove:


the stabilizer clips were much easier to pop out using fohat's great advice here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63267.msg1482912#msg1482912. I just used a small flat-head screw driver, inserted it in the slit in the back of the clips and slowly pushed them out. From what I can tell they all popped out without damage.


plate freed:


all parts laid out:



One of the barrels was broken. Luckily I have a spare AT lying around that I can take a barrel from.


Cleaning the barrels using denture tabs which always gave me good results for keycaps:



I decided to clean the plate of corrosion by soaking it in white vinegar based on the good results livingspeedbump got here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77644.0.



that's as far as I got today. I'll be checking in on the plate in a few hours and in the meantime researching which foam material to use, deciding on paint color (I'll probably just use rustoleum paint for the plate), and looking into shops that can straighten out the metal case. ninjadoc also sent me an xwhatsit controller which I'll be installing last.

[SixtyLife]

1 hour in white vinegar, the rest of the foam fell off the plate cleanly:


back of the plate:


scrubbed the front of the plate with the rough side of a sponge, paint beginning to come off:


3 hours in, scrubbed with sponge:




overall pretty happy with the results of vinegar. definitely got rid of the brown rust, but I will still need to sand some of the worst corrosion spots down before painting.

[ApocalypseMaow]

oh that scum layer-_-

[fohat.digs]

I have cracked open a couple of dozen Model Fs and I would say that this foam/rust/scum situation is just about average.

What metal-working repairs do you need a shop for?
 

[SixtyLife]

I have cracked open a couple of dozen Model Fs and I would say that this foam/rust/scum situation is just about average.

What metal-working repairs do you need a shop for?

the case isn't straight across, curves down the middle which I tried to capture here against a straight ruler:


I don't have any tools of bending it back straight and am hoping a shop could do a good job with that without marring the paint.

Fohat.digs, I have combed over many build logs and am still having trouble picking out a foam. I believe it should be 1/16 thick but don't know if I should be going with neoprene, silicone, or ensolite or some kinda art foam, or open cell or closed cell  . I think saw you recommending a foam from Michael's in another thread, but the link was broken. Is there a particular foam you would recommend after all your F restoration experience?

Also, I am unfamiliar with spray paints.. would you say that any rustoleum spray paint be good for this? (professional, rust-stop, 2x coverage, so many choices). I plan on spraying primer first then a rustoleum paint but again overwhelmed with the choices.

[fohat.digs]

I believe it should be 1/16 thick but don't know if I should be going with neoprene, silicone, or ensolite or some kinda art foam, or open cell or closed cell 

that any rustoleum spray paint be good for this? I plan on spraying primer first then a rustoleum paint but again overwhelmed with the choices.

I still like the cheap art foam http://www.michaels.com/creatology-foam-sheet-12x18/M10597609.html?dwvar_M10597609_color=White#q=foam+sheet&start=1 because it is supposedly acid-free, but it is a bit stiff and makes re-assembly a little harder. Many (most?) people prefer a thinner softer material such as neoprene from McMaster-Carr.

I love Rustoleum paint and the "hammered" line of spray paints is spectacular. A primer layer is always a good idea, I usually go with flat gray and cover it with my finish color. Remember not to go too heavy or you might have trouble pushing the barrels back in. A lot of very thin coats is best. Follow the instructions to the letter, including the painful ones such as "re-coat within 1 hour or wait 48 hours"

Personally, I would not worry about that slightly warped case. You might do more harm than good if you mess with it.

[SixtyLife]

I believe it should be 1/16 thick but don't know if I should be going with neoprene, silicone, or ensolite or some kinda art foam, or open cell or closed cell 

that any rustoleum spray paint be good for this? I plan on spraying primer first then a rustoleum paint but again overwhelmed with the choices.

I still like the cheap art foam http://www.michaels.com/creatology-foam-sheet-12x18/M10597609.html?dwvar_M10597609_color=White#q=foam+sheet&start=1 because it is supposedly acid-free, but it is a bit stiff and makes re-assembly a little harder. Many (most?) people prefer a thinner softer material such as neoprene from McMaster-Carr.

I love Rustoleum paint and the "hammered" line of spray paints is spectacular. A primer layer is always a good idea, I usually go with flat gray and cover it with my finish color. Remember not to go too heavy or you might have trouble pushing the barrels back in. A lot of very thin coats is best. Follow the instructions to the letter, including the painful ones such as "re-coat within 1 hour or wait 48 hours"

Personally, I would not worry about that slightly warped case. You might do more harm than good if you mess with it.

many thanks for the advice. I am ordering primer and the hammered paint now.. gonna try to go a little out of the box and try the hammered light blue color. I was considering leaving the case alone, but when I screw the top and bottom together tight, I can see the that curvature of the case actually presses against the plate and causes the plate to curve a bit also. I'll definitely consult a few shops around my area on how difficult it might be before pulling the trigger.

[fohat.digs]

I am ordering primer and the hammered paint now.. gonna try to go a little out of the box and try the hammered light blue color.

I was considering leaving the case alone, but when I screw the top and bottom together tight, I can see the that curvature of the case actually presses against the plate and causes the plate to curve a bit also.

The plate is probably better and stronger than the case. I doubt that it will cause a problem with the action.

Go to Home Depot and look at the colors on the shelf. "Rosemary" is a nice one that I used to good effect. (that's hammered copper for the plate)

[SixtyLife]

I am ordering primer and the hammered paint now.. gonna try to go a little out of the box and try the hammered light blue color.

I was considering leaving the case alone, but when I screw the top and bottom together tight, I can see the that curvature of the case actually presses against the plate and causes the plate to curve a bit also.

The plate is probably better and stronger than the case. I doubt that it will cause a problem with the action.

Go to Home Depot and look at the colors on the shelf. "Rosemary" is a nice one that I used to good effect. (that's hammered copper for the plate)

oh man that gold and copper combo looks really really good. that copper looked the best out of the choices when I saw them at the hardware store, but I didn't wanna copy you

I just coated one side with hammered light blue but having second thoughts now. The blue is too light and looks more silver than blue in most lighting conditions. Really love this hammered texture though, thanks so much for pointing me in that direction. I'm going to wait 48 hours then paint the other side, but thinking of stripping the whole thing and go with hammered gray in the future.

[0100010]

Love watching these come back to life.

EDIT : As far as bending the case - I would do it by "hand".  It only needs to be pressed in the opposite direction to the same curve depth to make it straight.  Prop either end on some blocks of equal height, place a slightly shorter block in the middle (~2mm?), and step on it gently.

[SixtyLife]

Love watching these come back to life.

EDIT : As far as bending the case - I would do it by "hand".  It only needs to be pressed in the opposite direction to the same curve depth to make it straight.  Prop either end on some blocks of equal height, place a slightly shorter block in the middle (~2mm?), and step on it gently.

thanks man, I actually tried exactly what you said, and started by stepping on the middle of it gently, then putting my full weight(155 lbs) on the one foot stepping on it, then even bouncing up and down on the one foot and it just refused to give.. no flex whatsoever (wtf!). now I'm wondering if it was cast that way and kinda scared if it could crack when put under a machine press to try to bend it back.

[user 18]

My advice would be to not bother with the case unless you think it's impacting the performance of the board somehow. IMO it gives it character.

[SixtyLife]

My advice would be to not bother with the case unless you think it's impacting the performance of the board somehow. IMO it gives it character.

agreed.. I'll decide once the plate assembly is all done with. still got a long ways to go.

[fohat.digs]

If you read my thread for the F-107 you might remember the comments from the metal shop about the poor quality "pot metal" of the case. If it were aluminum and you messed up you would probably bend it, but with the weird zinc crap it will probably crack if you stress it too much.

Here is that one with "oil rubbed bronze" case and hammered copper plate. Please feel free to "copy" me, I rip off good ideas whenever I run across them!

[SixtyLife]

If you read my thread for the F-107 you might remember the comments from the metal shop about the poor quality "pot metal" of the case. If it were aluminum and you messed up you would probably bend it, but with the weird zinc crap it will probably crack if you stress it too much.

Here is that one with "oil rubbed bronze" case and hammered copper plate. Please feel free to "copy" me, I rip off good ideas whenever I run across them!

Man that case looks beautiful. Thanks Fohat. I did some research on zinc and zinc alu alloys. apparently it can be rather brittle until heated to a certain point. Decided to take everyone's advice and decided to leave the case alone, which meant time for cleaning!

Removed all the feet and sticker from the bottom case. each feet popped off with some gentle nudging from the inside of the case.

Noticed that the sticker actually has a layer of beige paint on it which contributes to the washed out look. I cleaned off the marker on the corner of the sticker with some acetone which brought out the shiny metallic material. Sticker was able to be pulled off without too much difficulty and I've stuck it to the nonstick side of packing tape for now. Once I clean the glue off the sticker I will preserve it by laminating it.


Dunked both halfs in a sterilite container and let it soak in water and laundry detergent and scrubbed with a sponge. Some of the tougher stains I brushed over very lightly with the rough side of the sponge.


She cleans up beautifully! I thought about using some alcohol to remove the "Serial #" marker from the back, but didn't want to damage to the paint.

[fohat.digs]

Alcohol and elbow grease will probably get rid of that Sharpie writing. Alternate with a little judicious pencil eraser if you have to.

[ghostjuggernaut]

WOW man that thing is coming along nicely!  Gonna keep an eye out for future updates.

Looking really good man! 

[SixtyLife]

Alcohol and elbow grease will probably get rid of that Sharpie writing. Alternate with a little judicious pencil eraser if you have to.

thanks Fohat! took your advice on the alcohol and eraser and the sharpie came off pretty nicely.

WOW man that thing is coming along nicely!  Gonna keep an eye out for future updates.

Looking really good man! 

thanks Ghost, really looking forward to the results of your powdercoating!

Some updates:

Ended up stripping the hammered light blue color completely from the plate as I wasn't feeling it. Repainted it with Rustoleum Universal Flat Soft Iron (dark metallic gray color) and I'm loving the results. It's a matte texture but due to the thousands of tiny metal flakes in the paint, it has a beautiful shine, especially in bright light. Tried to capture it with my camera but my crappy photos just don't do it justice.

initial spray, was afraid it would be glossier and more textured than I expected but turned out to just be wet paint:


after a few hours of drying, the texture completely flattened out and the matte came through:



preview of assembled look:


meanwhile, I bought a hollow punch set from harbor freight after seeing it mentioned by wcass here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52394.msg1334516#msg1334516, and punched out the foam


Most people seem to recommend 1/2" for the big hole and 1/8" for the barrel tab thing, but I found 7/16" and 3/32" to be a near perfect fit.


still gotta spray another coat on the plate, install xwhatsit controller, and find spare parts for ANSI layout.

[fohat.digs]

Rustoleum Universal Flat Soft Iron (dark metallic gray color) and I'm loving the results.

That is a great color, perhaps the best close-but-not-IBM-industrial color compromise.

It was very hard for me to decide between that and the Oil Rubbed Bronze. If the Soft Iron had been a bit warmer (ie more hints of green and brown) I would have probably picked it instead.

[Spaceman1200]

Looking good man, can't wait to see how it comes back to life. i will be tackling a project similar to this but with a f107 4704 instead in the future and looking at all these other restorations is giving me confidence that i can do it

[fohat.digs]

i will be tackling a project similar to this but with a f107 4704 instead in the future

I think that the 107-key terminals are easier to manage than the 122-key ones because they lack the center line of tabs. But I still added a couple of bolts to mine:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76203.msg1900511#msg1900511

[SixtyLife]

after multiple attempts at spray painting the plate only to have the paint be easily scratched off even after a week of curing, and after wasting weeks re-doing coats, I got fed up and just decided to get it powder coated. I don't blame the paint at all, I know that my prep of the plate and spray paint method must have been lacking, but I couldn't wait for the paint to dry each time anymore.

anyways, the place I found had a minimum charge of $75 even though the plate is tiny. they said if I wanted to coat more pieces in the same color they'd do it for very little extra, so I decided to get the case and plate powder coated together.



now that I finaaaally had the damn plate plainted, I was able to assemble it. I have noooo clue how people put these back together with their bare hands, I totally failed and ended up going to a hardware store to buy these sweet self-locking clamps:


 



all that's left now is to solder the new controller in, which I'll save for another day

[fohat.digs]

Excellent work! Looks great!

Didn't I discuss clamps at length in my guides?

[SixtyLife]

Excellent work! Looks great!

Didn't I discuss clamps at length in my guides?

Thanks Fohat! yessir, but you were dealing with the battlecruiser 122s and I saw in other guides people saying they used just their hands for kishes .

anyways forgot to mention here, but thanks to your guides I knew to leave the old stab clips off and use the model M enter and shift keys with the barrel stab inserts. waaay easier than popping all those clips back in. I did keep the model F spacebar stabilizer setup however.

[CPTBadAss]

Nice little restoration log. Enjoyed the read . Good luck with the controller soldering. For me it was the most nerve wracking part of my restore.

[SixtyLife]

Nice little restoration log. Enjoyed the read . Good luck with the controller soldering. For me it was the most nerve wracking part of my restore.

thanks CPT. yeah pretty nervous about it as well.. hope I don't melt/damage the original ribbon cable

[digi]

Excellent job and nice write-up! She's a beaut!

[pr0ximity]

Awesome work, the powdercoating looks great! I'd like to do it to my F some time, maybe in the future. Soldering is no big deal, just take your time

As with any keyboard or general soldering I've done, patience is worth more than any sort of equipment you can buy. It's too easy to get into a rhythm and go too quickly, I always seem to make a mistake about 3/4 the way through a project  )

[yomammary]

Dude! Great work!

[SixtyLife]

thanks guys.

just finished installing the controller!!!

old faithful:


new hotness:


some notes:
1. only one corner of the controller is able to be screwed into the existing plate arm supports. Is it ok to leave the other side unconnected? haven't experienced any issues so far..
2. with the way the controller is screwed in, I am unable to hook up the buzzer to the pin header, as one of the plate hooks is in the way. I guess I can move the controller down and connect the ground through a separate wire but buzzer isn't too important to me so I'll leave it disconnected.

3. was surprised to learn that the controller uses mini-usb instead of micro. need to find a beefier mini-usb cord that actually is thick enough to fill the metal strain relief. using phone charging cable for now 


Some software troubles I encountered:
1. Found out the controller firmware was v0.7.1, which worked fine with the v0.9.0 capsense software I was using UNTIL I disconnected and reconnected the board to find out all my settings were wiped out.
2. Confusedly browsed the capsense software for where I could save the layers to eeprom, then found out that starting from v0.8 this was removed and firmware added to auto save layer settings.
3. This led me on an adventure of updating firmware to v0.9.0 by entering bootloader (directions on xhwatsit's site are really good, can be found here: http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/installation_model_f.pdf). All was good until I tried opening v0.9.0 Capsense software again where I was greeted with this:
wtf?
4. Even though I flashed the MODEL F v0.9.0 hex file, I keep seeing this "Multiple beamspring controllers found" message whenever I open capsense now, and I just have to pick one and hope that capsense doesn't lock up. If I do pick the right one I am able to continue setting up the kish to my heart's content, and most importantly, all layers now properly autosave.

yayyyyy


really need to find a nicer USB cord for this beast 

only thing left is to laminate the back sticker and reattach it! love this board so much.

[pr0ximity]

Looking good!

1. only one corner of the controller is able to be screwed into the existing plate arm supports. Is it ok to leave the other side unconnected? haven't experienced any issues so far..

This is okay, and I believe is even expected (I think I've seen it referenced in xwhatsit's installation instructions) because it is a universal controller for beamsprings as well.

2. with the way the controller is screwed in, I am unable to hook up the buzzer to the pin header, as one of the plate hooks is in the way. I guess I can move the controller down and connect the ground through a separate wire but buzzer isn't too important to me so I'll leave it disconnected.

Show Image

You can try doing what I did in my build log if you have some electrical tape or preferably heatshrink. Take the metal connectors attached to the individual wires out of the troublesome black connector and heatstrink/tape them individually. They can then be connected individually to the pins and around the tab rather easily. Think it took a bit of fudging to extract the metal connectors from their black enclosure, but nothing too bad.

[SixtyLife]

getting my board repainted, this time aiming for classic industrial gray look.

from searching around here and deskthority, it looks like RAL 7030's been recommended and tried a few times for paint matching, but it looks slightly lighter than ibm industrial gray based on XMIT's F107:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-4704-f107-in-ral-7030-industrial-gray-t11432.html

went to a powdercoating shop with an industrial case to try to match to their ral colorwheel and from what I can tell, betongrau(RAL 7023) seems like it might be a better match than steingrau(RAL 7030)


RAL 9007 looks pretty close as well:



anyone have any experience with either of these colors or know of a better match? I went with 7023 but I keep second guessing myself.

will see the results in a few days and take some comparison shots..