Post by: Windeh on Sun, 27 January 2019, 09:39:24
- 27th Jan 2019
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This is the Interest Check thread for the Omega 60, a Floating Bagel Sandwich Mounted 60% Custom Keyboard kit.
The mount for this board will be identical to my last 2 designs, Reflex & Paradox. For more info on the mounting system, please check out the link below:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97859.msg2672186#msg2672186
This IC will focus on updates and changes from my last design, while addressing some skepticism on the smol brane spacebar cutout for the plate.
Having experiences from designing the Reflex & Paradox, and with several prototypes made, I focused on maintaining the essence of the original designs, while streamlining and refocusing the overall package.
Design Highlights:
- Weight - The internal weight have been maximized within the allowable space, with a fully built weight of 2.2kg (4.85lbs), in a relatively compact and low profile footprint.
- Mount & Plate - Mounting and plate designs are unchanged, as the design works wonderfully.
- Chassis rigidity - With additional material in key areas, without exposed weight or cutouts, and tighter tolerance between the case top and bottom, together with the increased weight and small size, the board feels incredibly substantial and rigid in hand and whilst typing.
- Ease of assembly - Putting together and taking apart the Omega 60 is effortless, with only 10 screws to assemble, and only 6 are structural. All 10 screws are of the same standard size and length, so no mistaken screw lengths, and just 1 bit size.
- Reduced bezel gap
Feel free to skip this section if you don't care for the design of this board.
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Looking at how past keyboard designers dealt with screw holes, some chose to hide them, and are limited by the location of the screw hole in terms of how much rear angle they can play with, while others choose the opposite path, and proudly design around the exposed screws for a more industrial looking board.
I wanted to keep the angled look of my first 2 designs, while hiding the screw holes. The Reflex had exposed screw holes, and the style suited the "louder" design. The Paradox used weights to hide the screw holes, however the design was expensive to manufacture and to fit correctly, and it requires you to remove the weight before being able to remove the case top screws, increasing assembly time & complexity.
I thought to use a nameplate to cover the screw holes, however was uncertain on how to keep the plate in place, while allowing easy removal for quick access. Screws was of course the obvious choice, however this defeats the purpose of hiding the screw holes in the first place.
Magnets comes to mind, however the nameplate material is not magnetic, and to stick a magnet onto the plate using epoxy, then stick another piece of magnetic material onto the case would not be very elegant. How to then remove the plate is another concern.
I ultimately came up with the "clamp" design. The plate is simply dropped into the recess, and the 3 clamping screws are tightened to secure the name plate. The tolerances of the nameplate must be very accurate to not cause excessive deformation of the clamping mechanism, so each name plate will be hand fitted to their respective cases.
[attach=4]
To remove the nameplate, simply slightly loosen the 3 clamping screws, and the plate will be free to drop out.
While the tolerances between the nameplate and the plate recess will be kept to less then 0.2mm, the clamping mechanism can accommodate up to 0.5mm of deformation without damage, and will return back their original position upon loosening.
I wanted to keep the angled look of my first 2 designs, while hiding the screw holes. The Reflex had exposed screw holes, and the style suited the "louder" design. The Paradox used weights to hide the screw holes, however the design was expensive to manufacture and to fit correctly, and it requires you to remove the weight before being able to remove the case top screws, increasing assembly time & complexity.
I thought to use a nameplate to cover the screw holes, however was uncertain on how to keep the plate in place, while allowing easy removal for quick access. Screws was of course the obvious choice, however this defeats the purpose of hiding the screw holes in the first place.
Magnets comes to mind, however the nameplate material is not magnetic, and to stick a magnet onto the plate using epoxy, then stick another piece of magnetic material onto the case would not be very elegant. How to then remove the plate is another concern.
I ultimately came up with the "clamp" design. The plate is simply dropped into the recess, and the 3 clamping screws are tightened to secure the name plate. The tolerances of the nameplate must be very accurate to not cause excessive deformation of the clamping mechanism, so each name plate will be hand fitted to their respective cases.
[attach=4]
To remove the nameplate, simply slightly loosen the 3 clamping screws, and the plate will be free to drop out.
While the tolerances between the nameplate and the plate recess will be kept to less then 0.2mm, the clamping mechanism can accommodate up to 0.5mm of deformation without damage, and will return back their original position upon loosening.
[attachimg=3]
The "Smol Brane" spacebar plate cut
There are some discussions within various Discord channel on the questionable design decision to place a mounting point directly below the spacebar, then to try and fix the stiffness by disconnecting the spacebar switch from that mounting point with a plate cut, potentially increasing complexity of the design, and ultimately the cost to manufacture.
I will break down how this design came to be, with some Displacement (Flex) Simulation, uniform 10N on surface / Rigid mounting points:
Goal for plate design -
- Reduce rigidity of the spacebar switch plate position
- Maintain overall uniform switch sound and feel (flex) across the Alphas and the Spacebar area of the plate.
- Have the least amount of complexity to achieve the above goals.
Simulation 1 - Full mounting position, no disconnect cut
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[attachimg=9]
While the alphas are "somewhat" uniform in their displacement, the spacebar switch position are super rigid, as is expected.
While the alphas are "somewhat" uniform in their displacement, the spacebar switch position are super rigid, as is expected.
Simulation 2 - Full Mounting Position, WITH disconnect cut
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[attachimg=10]
The disconnect cut successfully reduced the rigidity of the spacebar switch position, while also reliefs the center portion of the plate for more uniform displacement across almost the entire Alphas area of the plate.
The disconnect cut successfully reduced the rigidity of the spacebar switch position, while also reliefs the center portion of the plate for more uniform displacement across almost the entire Alphas area of the plate.
Simulation 3 - Remove the bottom center mounting position entirely
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Without the center bottom mounting position, the plate experiences vastly inconsistent displacement, with much more flex closer to the spacebar cutout, and stiffens out across the whole plate towards the mounting points.
I hope with the above, somewhat simplistic simulations, that we can agree that a simple cut which adds about 0.5 dollar to the costs of the plate, is the most cost effective solution to the rigid spacebar problem, without negatively affecting the consistency of the typing experience.
Without the center bottom mounting position, the plate experiences vastly inconsistent displacement, with much more flex closer to the spacebar cutout, and stiffens out across the whole plate towards the mounting points.
I hope with the above, somewhat simplistic simulations, that we can agree that a simple cut which adds about 0.5 dollar to the costs of the plate, is the most cost effective solution to the rigid spacebar problem, without negatively affecting the consistency of the typing experience.
** Whilst I'm not trying to simulate every detail from the switches, keycaps, stabilizers and every component on the PCB etc, however given that those are pretty evenly spread out across the plate and are consistent, with the only variable being the plate design, the simulation serves its purpose to demonstrate and gives a visualization of the areas of relative flexibility between different plate designs. **
Spec:
- Case material: 6061 / 5052 Aluminium (TBC)
- Weight material: Sandblasted & Clearcoated Brass
- Plate material: Anodized Aluminium in Deep Red or Royal Blue / Sandblasted Brass (Optional)
- Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Black Oxide Screw AND THE SS 316 A4 Stainless Steel Screws - Only the best fasteners
- Color Options: Standard anodization Black / Dark Grey / Deep Red / Royal Blue
- Nameplate Material: Brushed 304 Stainless Steel
- Fully built weight with Brass Plate: ~2.2kg (4.85lbs)
- Layout: R1 will be unblocked top only - Tsangan layout with optional split backspace & stepped caps lock
- Angle: ~7 Degrees
- PCB: Not included. Satan GH60 PCB can be purchased for $38 with GB, or $30 from KBDfans
- Base kit price: $350 for Paradox/Reflex participants, otherwise $380 (4% PayPal Fee & Delivery cost not included)
- R1 Slots: 18 Sets
- GB Date: Sometime after CNY
Feel free to comment below, let me know if I've missed anything, and do discuss your concerns with my design here, as it can be hard to catch up with your comments in the Discord channel. ;)
Extra photos and renders:
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Post by: ArchDill on Sun, 27 January 2019, 09:42:30
Post by: airlangga07 on Sun, 27 January 2019, 09:46:52
Post by: Rensuya on Sun, 27 January 2019, 09:47:08
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: garbo on Sun, 27 January 2019, 10:10:30
The computational approach to looking at plate flex is a great idea.
What's your process for running those? If it's something that other designers could start to adopt, it could really take some of the trial and error out of plate design.
Do your models also account for the effect of the o-ring burgers(/bagels)?
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 27 January 2019, 10:29:12
Do your models also account for the effect of the o-ring burgers(/bagels)?He said the simulations ran with fixed mounting points, but those aren't even the main problem.
You'll never use the plate on it's own, you always have switches in it and a PCB underneath. Unless those are part of the simulation it's worthless.
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 27 January 2019, 10:37:55
Do your models also account for the effect of the o-ring burgers(/bagels)?He said the simulations ran with fixed mounting points, but those aren't even the main problem.
You'll never use the plate on it's own, you always have switches in it and a PCB underneath. Unless those are part of the simulation it's worthless.
No data is worthless. This gives a general idea for the plate in a vacuum, and it is helpful to visualize the affects of relief cuts and mounting positions for the plate.
Or you can hand wire without a PCB... so yes, you can use the plate on its own, should you choose to, no need to be so negative. ;)
Post by: juaninamilli on Sun, 27 January 2019, 10:43:51
Post by: garbo on Sun, 27 January 2019, 10:52:41
Do your models also account for the effect of the o-ring burgers(/bagels)?He said the simulations ran with fixed mounting points, but those aren't even the main problem.
You'll never use the plate on it's own, you always have switches in it and a PCB underneath. Unless those are part of the simulation it's worthless.
Oh yeah, missed that.
You have a point about the limits to the way it's modelled, but I still think that the deformation of an unpopulated plate is indicative enough of the way it would perform with the other parts (at least as a general suggestion of evenness, not saying there's anything quantitative to learn from it).
Post by: tex_live_utility on Sun, 27 January 2019, 11:09:54
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 27 January 2019, 11:15:15
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 27 January 2019, 11:19:02
How steep is the typing angle?
~7 Degrees
Post by: Coolbeanz on Sun, 27 January 2019, 11:30:18
Post by: beekey on Sun, 27 January 2019, 11:52:53
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 27 January 2019, 13:12:55
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 27 January 2019, 13:32:46
Post by: Fabi on Sun, 27 January 2019, 14:29:27
Did you write a simulation yourself or is there something one could plug a plate design into and run themselves?I think he (or she) is using Fusion 360 which has a module for simulations like these.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Post by: Remsky on Sun, 27 January 2019, 17:22:32
Post by: Windeh on Sun, 27 January 2019, 18:16:17
I see why you have screw holes in the corners (I presume for alignment), but since this is a sandwich style mount, it will contribute towards the pressure put onto the plate. IMO remove them (saves money spent on threading as well and makes 4 less screws that could strip) and also remove the bottom center mounting post. Even with the cut, having a mounting point directly beneath the spacebar switch will probably make the spacebar sound a bit stiffer instead of letting it flex a little bit more for that thock. You could also do a near row wide relief cut in between the numrow and QWERTY row to even out the flex on the alphas (with the current 5 point mount plate design anyway). to make the flex more consistent.
Thanks for the detailed suggestion! However I think there is some misunderstanding on how my mounting system actually holds the plate. I have a video or two for you later today when I'm back from work. :thumb:
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 28 January 2019, 08:37:51
I see why you have screw holes in the corners (I presume for alignment), but since this is a sandwich style mount, it will contribute towards the pressure put onto the plate. IMO remove them (saves money spent on threading as well and makes 4 less screws that could strip) and also remove the bottom center mounting post. Even with the cut, having a mounting point directly beneath the spacebar switch will probably make the spacebar sound a bit stiffer instead of letting it flex a little bit more for that thock. You could also do a near row wide relief cut in between the numrow and QWERTY row to even out the flex on the alphas (with the current 5 point mount plate design anyway). to make the flex more consistent.
Corner screws
The corner screws are not actually used to align the top & bottom case, as the top self-aligns during installation;
Those screws are there to ensure that the corners of the case are tightly clamped, so there are no visible gaps. This "Feature" can be seen in most custom keyboards. My first Reflex/Paradox protos omitted the corner screws, which were added in subsequent updated design, for no other reason then to ensure a good tight gap-less fit. I would have loved to simplify the design with less screws, but felt that these are necessary for a premium product finish.
Screw stripping is an issue I have occasionally seen in the community, stemming from the use of tiny fasteners, sub-par drivers, sub-par screw grade, soft materials, shallow thread depth etc.. That's why I chose to use the largest screw size I can fit into the design (M3 / M4), YFS/THE branded fasteners, and Grade 12.9 alloy steel & A4 SS316 Stainless screw material. These fasteners are the most trusted in the industry, with accurate Hex Bit size and material strength, to minimize chances of stripping the screw socket. Both stainless & alloy steel screws will come with the kit.
[attach=3]
[attach=1]
Rule of thumb for thread depth are that a full 2.5-3 thread engagement will be sufficient for the application, as those first few threads takes most of the load. All my designs are around 10 thread engagement.
Lastly regarding pressure on the plate from the corner screws, the following section analysis and video will hopefully clarify how the mounting system functions:
[attach=2]
From the corner screw section analysis, you can see that the plate does not touch the case at all.
Below video shows what happens if you do not install ANY O-Ring, with all screws tightened:
As the video hopefully demonstrates, the plate in my design wholly relies on the O-Rings to function where it is kept "floating" 0.5mm away from any hard case surface, and without them, the plate is free to move about.
Bottom Center Mount Post
Since you took the time to offer your suggestion, I will also offer my time to simulate your plate design suggestion. :D
Let's call it the Remsky Special:
[attachimg=4]
Hopefully this plate design is what you described.
At first glance, it does seem that the "Row Wide Relief Cut" created a very large displacement area for the alphas. However, it is still inconsistent displacement, where the Alphas near the center of the board have more flex, and gradually become stiffer towards the two sides. Also, as this is not a traditional top mount with rigid mounting points, too much flex may cause the PCB to bottom out within the case.
In reality, using a PCB that have no relief cut which mirrors the plate (specifically a relief cut that separates portions of keys, i.e. a cut NOT on the edges of the plate), the effect of the cut significantly diminishes, as the PCB is now the bridge linking the 2 sides of the cut, preventing most of the flex. The effect of a PCB relief cut with a correspondingly "Reliefed" (half) plate, results in a hilarious amount of flex, as can been seen in Nathan Kim's GSKT.
With my current design, there are no PCB to bridge the cut, and the cut works wonderfully to disconnect the space bar switch from the mounting post, creating that "Thock" without having to sacrifice the alpha zones with inconsistent sounding and feeling keys.
Hopefully with the above explanation, you can follow my thought process for these design choices, and we can at least agree that some thought have been given to create this keyboard. :thumb:
Please do let me know if you have any questions or suggestions, or would like to offer any counterpoint to what I have written above. I do thoroughly enjoy these technical discussions! :D
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 28 January 2019, 09:15:00
Not sure if Remsky would want royalties though...
Post by: Unforgivable on Mon, 28 January 2019, 09:46:37
The amount of work you place in all your creations is amazing. I’d totally be in if R1 had a HHKB top, but sadly I may have to wait until R2. Regardless, I’m in whenever that passes by (Hopefully shortly after R1?).
Post by: lac29 on Mon, 28 January 2019, 11:00:21
Post by: hineybush on Mon, 28 January 2019, 17:53:29
Post by: jizzaztartist on Mon, 28 January 2019, 23:45:44
Quote
NAMEPLATE LOGO LASER MARKING DESIGN TO BE CONFIRMED
Or you could just not have one.
Post by: fishinaspacesuit on Tue, 29 January 2019, 03:11:48
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 29 January 2019, 07:31:49
Windeh,
The amount of work you place in all your creations is amazing. I’d totally be in if R1 had a HHKB top, but sadly I may have to wait until R2. Regardless, I’m in whenever that passes by (Hopefully shortly after R1?).
Thanks!!
Don't really have a timeline yet, but the demand for HHKB/WKL blocked tops are quite high, so I'll definitely try to make it happen ASAP.
Some really thoughtful design choices that you rarely see in these ICs. I'm not interested in a 60% but if you do a 65% or or 75% I'd be in I think.
I'm definitely interest in designing a 75% or TKL. :thumb:
pretty good analysis on stuff. I've been meaning to do some basic displacement sims too, just haven't had a chance :( good info, it's definitely of use to others.
If you zoom in, you can see the maximum displacement values. However those values are quite meaningless as the force of 10N is arbitrary, and a PCB would stiffen the plate right up, further diminishing their usefulness. The sims are for visual reference, to give an idea on relative stiffness of areas within the plate.
Oh and I don't lurk nearly enough. ;)
QuoteNAMEPLATE LOGO LASER MARKING DESIGN TO BE CONFIRMED
Or you could just not have one.
I could! In fact I will offer optional extra blank name plates with the kits. :thumb:
There's really quite a bit of thought that went into these, thank you so much for showing your design motivations through the videos :)
I have the luxury of coming after all the great designs that came before mine, knowing what works and what does not helps immensely.
Still much to learn, and many bridges to build. :)
Post by: vikipedeer on Tue, 29 January 2019, 08:03:04
Post by: aznreaper on Tue, 29 January 2019, 09:31:07
Post by: beekey on Tue, 29 January 2019, 10:14:37
Plate option with split space please. Like the design a lot.Will there be other plate layouts?
Post by: juaninamilli on Tue, 29 January 2019, 12:06:49
Post by: Lbibass on Tue, 29 January 2019, 13:54:23
Plus: BEAUTIFUL design.
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 29 January 2019, 14:20:16
Post by: beekey on Tue, 29 January 2019, 14:51:11
One plate layout to rule rule them all. I like itWhy? Other GBs offer custom plates or multiple base layouts. This is an IC, so I ask for options. Does not mean to have the one universal-do-all plate. For me the typical default layout sucks. Would not buy.
Post by: juaninamilli on Tue, 29 January 2019, 15:01:20
. This isn't standard layout, so not sure what you're referring to. What layout would you be looking for? (Don't say arrows)One plate layout to rule rule them all. I like itWhy? Other GBs offer custom plates or multiple base layouts. This is an IC, so I ask for options. Does not mean to have the one universal-do-all plate. For me the typical default layout sucks. Would not buy.
Post by: Lbibass on Tue, 29 January 2019, 15:27:44
I get a single layout plate design, b/c I'm not a fan of swiss cheese plates. But why has everyone moved away from switch top opening cuts? It's very reassuring to know that you can go back and fix problems with switches down the road. When a switch gets a roughness to it, or a spring starts to squeak... I'd much rather open it up and fix it than have to take apart the entire board and desolder it.
I agree. Switch top opening is super important to me, and I think that most would rather have it than not.
Post by: mdlt97 on Tue, 29 January 2019, 15:34:20
also for having holes for switch top takes away from the board, the whole point of this board is to be a great typing feel and sound and switch top can affect both of those
also id assume if you really wanted switch top you could ask windeh to make plate files for that type of plate
Post by: Oblotzky on Tue, 29 January 2019, 15:56:23
Post by: fishinaspacesuit on Tue, 29 January 2019, 19:19:25
One plate layout to rule rule them all. I like itWhy? Other GBs offer custom plates or multiple base layouts. This is an IC, so I ask for options. Does not mean to have the one universal-do-all plate. For me the typical default layout sucks. Would not buy.
Not all GBs offer that option, some examples of GB that offer just one layout are the RAMA M60-A and KOYU.
Post by: Remsky on Tue, 29 January 2019, 19:30:12
I see why you have screw holes in the corners (I presume for alignment), but since this is a sandwich style mount, it will contribute towards the pressure put onto the plate. IMO remove them (saves money spent on threading as well and makes 4 less screws that could strip) and also remove the bottom center mounting post. Even with the cut, having a mounting point directly beneath the spacebar switch will probably make the spacebar sound a bit stiffer instead of letting it flex a little bit more for that thock. You could also do a near row wide relief cut in between the numrow and QWERTY row to even out the flex on the alphas (with the current 5 point mount plate design anyway). to make the flex more consistent.
Corner screws
The corner screws are not actually used to align the top & bottom case, as the top self-aligns during installation;
Those screws are there to ensure that the corners of the case are tightly clamped, so there are no visible gaps. This "Feature" can be seen in most custom keyboards. My first Reflex/Paradox protos omitted the corner screws, which were added in subsequent updated design, for no other reason then to ensure a good tight gap-less fit. I would have loved to simplify the design with less screws, but felt that these are necessary for a premium product finish.
Since you took the time to offer your suggestion, I will also offer my time to simulate your plate design suggestion. :D
Let's call it the Remsky Special:
(Attachment Link)
Hopefully with the above explanation, you can follow my thought process for these design choices, and we can at least agree that some thought have been given to create this keyboard. :thumb:
Please do let me know if you have any questions or suggestions, or would like to offer any counterpoint to what I have written above. I do thoroughly enjoy these technical discussions! :D
Your mounting is a modified method of sandwich mounting, with grooves for o-rings to be fit for sound and/or feel. Any additional pressure used to seal the two case halves will directly affect the plate, adding unnecessary pressure to the plate. That's what the four screw holes on the corners are doing. I think you could have standoffs/insert system instead to seal the corners, there will still be pressure, but less so than with the torque from screws.
Also I think the pressure tests would be more accurate if you were able to do them while the plate was mounted, although that maybe trickier because then you would have to simulate the amount of force the case puts onto the plate and torque from screws, etc.
Thank you for considering my suggestion with the plate.
Post by: PikaJoyce on Tue, 29 January 2019, 19:36:13
Post by: fireworm on Tue, 29 January 2019, 23:53:44
But maybe they look too low quality...?
Post by: adb7 on Sat, 02 February 2019, 18:15:10
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 07 February 2019, 13:20:48
Post by: reidd on Thu, 07 February 2019, 14:18:42
Post by: tex_live_utility on Fri, 08 February 2019, 17:06:40
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 11 February 2019, 03:34:27
I get a single layout plate design, b/c I'm not a fan of swiss cheese plates. But why has everyone moved away from switch top opening cuts? It's very reassuring to know that you can go back and fix problems with switches down the road. When a switch gets a roughness to it, or a spring starts to squeak... I'd much rather open it up and fix it than have to take apart the entire board and desolder it.
I get a single layout plate design, b/c I'm not a fan of swiss cheese plates. But why has everyone moved away from switch top opening cuts? It's very reassuring to know that you can go back and fix problems with switches down the road. When a switch gets a roughness to it, or a spring starts to squeak... I'd much rather open it up and fix it than have to take apart the entire board and desolder it.
I agree. Switch top opening is super important to me, and I think that most would rather have it than not.
I may look into switch top opening in future plate designs. My concern is that the additional removed material weakens the plate somewhat, which increases the likelihood of the plate dimensions distorting during laser cutting.
Plate option with split space please. Like the design a lot.Will there be other plate layouts?
Not for this GB to keep the costs down. I can send participants the plate file should you wish to create and cut your own plate layouts.
Lovely design :thumb:
Thanks! I'm sure you are not at all biased by those lovely keycaps. ;)
Post by: dantambok on Mon, 11 February 2019, 03:51:36
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 11 February 2019, 06:23:53
Your mounting is a modified method of sandwich mounting, with grooves for o-rings to be fit for sound and/or feel. Any additional pressure used to seal the two case halves will directly affect the plate, adding unnecessary pressure to the plate. That's what the four screw holes on the corners are doing. I think you could have standoffs/insert system instead to seal the corners, there will still be pressure, but less so than with the torque from screws.
Quote from: Remsky on 01/30/2019
I literally told windeh that the 4 screw holes in the side would contribute towards the pressure on the plate, therefore making it stiffer
he said no
then he said how they align the case by keeping the plate down in those corners (WUT? where did I say that??:-\)
I think there is still confusion on the mounting design, where you think the plate is sandwiched between the case as per a traditional sandwich mount (e.g. TX60), with O-Rings thrown in. This is NOT how my mount is set up.
Firstly, the Aluminium part of the case (i.e case top & bottom) does NOT touch the plate AT ALL when the case is assembled. Although this was demonstrated in my previous post on the subject, let me try another method to convey the design.
If the case touches the plate, there will be electrical continuity.
Since the plate ONLY touches, and is held in place by the O-Rings, it is completely isolated from the case.
[attach=1]
Now that we have established that the case does not touch the plate directly, with the only thing putting pressure on the plate being the O-Rings.
Now all that's left is to determine HOW the pressure is applied to the plate through the O-Rings, and whether the corner screws applies any additional pressure the O-Rings.
For my design, the screws is only responsible for joining the top & bottom case. From the section analysis below, you can see that once the top and bottom part touches, you cannot apply any additional pressure to the plate via the O-Rings, no matter how much torque you apply to the screws, or even the number of screws you use.
[attachimg=2]
The O-Ring compression ratio is set by me, via the distance between the top and bottom O-Ring recess shown below, as the distance marked "X".
[attachimg=3]
Therefore, for a higher preset pressure, X can be reduced for greater O-Ring compression. Conversely, increase X reduced the pressure placed on the plate through the O-Rings.
With a predetermined O-Ring compression, user can easily adjust the pressure on the plate by the last and only variable remaining; the O-Ring Hardness, or its durometer value.
Hopefully the above is easy to follow. Not sure how much better I can explain my design other then to show you in person, but please rest assured that the corner screws have no effect on the typing experience.
Also I think the pressure tests would be more accurate if you were able to do them while the plate was mounted, although that maybe trickier because then you would have to simulate the amount of force the case puts onto the plate and torque from screws, etc.
Since there are minimal deflection of the O-Rings even under large amount of pressure applied to the plate, modelling them as rigid is sufficiently accurate for my purpose.
Computer aided simulation of anything is always a compromise between accuracy and ease of simulation. As complexity of the simulation increases, the benefit to increased accuracy decreases exponentially. Therefore we always seek the sweet spot of the least complex simulation, while obtaining the most amount of useful data.
I have seen people criticizing the simulation for its lack of PCB simulation, which I agree will have the most direct affect to the plate deflection, to simulation the switch, soldering, mounting, O-Ring Hardness, screw pressure etc, which substantially increases the simulation complexity while provides disproportionally small benefit to the simulation.
Some gems from Discord regarding the simulations: "Retarded", "useless shinfo" "it's ****in pointless". Why so much hate? ;D
I will always take 60% of data over 100% of nothing. :thumb:
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 11 February 2019, 06:33:20
I wish one day I'll be so experienced in the hobby that I will know more about the design then the designer, from the sound, how it will feel terrible, to how "wobbly it will feel" (WUT?), just by browsing through the Interest Check. :cool:
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 11 February 2019, 07:13:19
I know you haven't selected colors yet, but with all of these new cerakote opportunities, do you think you might offer a raw option?
I could, but there are not much savings from skipping anodizing, and there may be some dispute on the raw finish quality, as raw aluminium are super soft, and susceptible to scratches and small dents.
I appreciate the thought you've put into your design, Windeh. This seems like an evolution from the Paradox/Reflex. Will be keeping my eye on this :)
This is hands down the best looking 60% I've ever seen.
Thanks guys!!
... Perhaps having screw in blockers for hhkb and WKL are a compromise?
But maybe they look too low quality...?
Will definitely get one if native WKL is offered. Probably not if they are screw in blockers though.
Screw in blockers will not happen, as most boards with them I have seen looks terrible.
What are the pros and cons of 6061 and 5052 for a keyboard?
For a keyboard, where material properties between aluminium alloys are less important, it mostly comes down to anodizing finish quality, and material batch consistency.
Even with a grade of aluminium known to have a better anodizing finish, there may be other factors that affects the finish which outweighs its benefit.
I will mostly go for a tougher material over finish quality, as durability if my main concern, and softer material tends to dent & scratch easier, and the threads may strip easier.
I chose 6061-T6 for the case as it is almost twice as strong as 6063, and with it being more widely used, the batch consistency should hopefully be better.
5052 is a common sheet metal fabrication aluminium that does not crack when bent, and gives a good anodizing finish, perfect as the plate material.
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 11 February 2019, 08:11:41
There are so many gems from Discord talking about my design, I must find time to do a BEST OF DISCORD. :))
I wish one day I'll be so experienced in the hobby that I will know more about the design then the designer, from the sound, how it will feel terrible, to how "wobbly it will feel" (WUT?), just by browsing through the Interest Check. :cool:
How about a 5/5 special edition with a different Discord quote engraved on the back.
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 11 February 2019, 08:46:52
There are so many gems from Discord talking about my design, I must find time to do a BEST OF DISCORD. :))
I wish one day I'll be so experienced in the hobby that I will know more about the design then the designer, from the sound, how it will feel terrible, to how "wobbly it will feel" (WUT?), just by browsing through the Interest Check. :cool:
How about a 5/5 special edition with a different Discord quote engraved on the back.
ROFL It might just happen... :))
Post by: garbo on Mon, 11 February 2019, 08:55:02
As an aside, I get that it feels kinda bad to see people talking **** about something you've worked on, but kb-kustoms is probably not the place to look for constructive criticism or non-hyperbolic takes.
Some of the sentiment you're picking up on might coming from people who may have an interest in asserting superiority in the ownership of a similar but completely different (not that anybody's allowed to see exactly) keyboard, but that's just a theory :blank:
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 11 February 2019, 09:35:35
I'm trying to understand the screw/plate isolation business. For the sake of argument, if you were to torque the hell out of the corner screws for a high clamping force between the case top and bottom, would that not be distributed in some way through the o-rings?
To increase clamping pressure via the O-Rings, you will have to have somehow deformed the case top/bottom, in order to reduce the distance of X.
[attach=1]
The torque required to deform the 6061-T6 aluminium of the case will have snapped or stripped the M3 screws many times over.
Also clamping forces are quite localized for relatively thin material such as the case top piece, that's why you need the corner screws to close off any slight gaps in the corners in the first place, being a distance away from the closest O-Ring Post screws.
Hope the above explanation helps.
I get that they're not acting like gaskets in the traditional sense because the extra space doesn't allow them to yield under the pressure, but is it right to say the plate is isolated from the case just because it makes indirect contact via pieces of different material rather than directly mated?
Isolation in this context simply means that the plate does not make hard contact with any part of the case, but is held in place by a somewhat pliable material, in this case being the O-Rings. Think of how the individual "Bars" on a Xylophone is "Isolated" from the frame of the instrument by rubber isolators.
Post by: garbo on Mon, 11 February 2019, 11:22:55
Or something like that... Sorry to belabour the point.
Post by: iNViSiBiLiTi on Mon, 11 February 2019, 15:01:22
Also you need to realize that people on a lot of Discord servers are being sarcastic or uninformed and that you should be not be shaken by what other people say. If you feel strongly about your designs, then by all means, go through with them. You have to prototype and try to know what you like! Don't let people keep you down.
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 11 February 2019, 15:39:05
I know you're very upset by people's criticism (whether true or not), but I think it's a better approach to be more polite about it instead of being passive aggressive and complain that others don't like your design on a keyboard interest check. I think the plate deflection is super cool, would love to try it out, but the way you've reacted to all this drama is off-putting and hot-headed.
I disagree. He has a right to defend himself against people spreading false information.
Also you need to realize that people on a lot of Discord servers are being sarcastic or uninformed and that you should be not be shaken by what other people say.
Then those people shouldn't be speaking. You know it's not sarcasm.
Post by: OtherAndrew on Tue, 12 February 2019, 04:53:29
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 12 February 2019, 06:56:05
I know you're very upset by people's criticism (whether true or not), but I think it's a better approach to be more polite about it instead of being passive aggressive and complain that others don't like your design on a keyboard interest check. I think the plate deflection is super cool, would love to try it out, but the way you've reacted to all this drama is off-putting and hot-headed.
Also you need to realize that people on a lot of Discord servers are being sarcastic or uninformed and that you should be not be shaken by what other people say. If you feel strongly about your designs, then by all means, go through with them. You have to prototype and try to know what you like! Don't let people keep you down.
I think you're overestimating my emotional investment to the Discord “criticisms”. As they are obviously not constructive, I actually find them quite amusing. ;D
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re saying that I should be more polite and sensitive to the feelings of those that ****talk and spread misinformation about my designs, lest they think of me as off-putting and hot-headed.
Not sure if many would agree with you there…
I have always appreciated those that come to my thread to discuss about my design, positive or not.
Remsky, although also skeptical of the design, found the time to challenge me, which allows me to address his concerns. We might not agree on everything, but at least he gave me a chance to explain the reasons for my design, which I very much appreciate.
I even appreciate Quantrik for his frankness on the pricing of my last design, that pushed me to find better offers and optimized machining to lower my cost for this IC/GB.
Commenting in a public chat group about how a design is “smol brane” and how "it will feel like ****” when the person obviously have never even seen the board in person, let alone typed on one, really shows the character of the commenter, and for others to question their agenda.
Unless of course...
I wish one day I'll be so experienced in the hobby that I will know more about the design then the designer, from the sound, how it will feel terrible, to how "wobbly it will feel" (WUT?), just by browsing through the Interest Check. :cool:
Now that we have cleared the air, and have you here, care to take a little time and lets discuss why you'd think that my board is "Gonna feel terrible", and that "It'll be as wobbly as X60V1"? I really am interested to know your reasoning, lets start there. :thumb:
Post by: xondat on Tue, 12 February 2019, 10:17:36
Now that we have cleared the air, and have you here, care to take a little time and lets discuss why you'd think that my board is "Gonna feel terrible", and that "It'll be as wobbly as X60V1"? I really am interested to know your reasoning, lets start there. :thumb:
Wobbly meaning flex on the outer corners due to no mounting? Well it won’t be as “wobbly”. Anyone that has seen plate designs for both knows this.
A lot of the bad comments towards this aren’t really based on anything apart from what they guess will happen, it’s kinda disappointing.
Also more on topic, could you perhaps run a flex sim with a polycarbonate plate (or similar)? 0.03mm peak flex isn’t going to be noticeable in the real world.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 13 February 2019, 09:02:32
Now that we have cleared the air, and have you here, care to take a little time and lets discuss why you'd think that my board is "Gonna feel terrible", and that "It'll be as wobbly as X60V1"? I really am interested to know your reasoning, lets start there. :thumb:
Wobbly meaning flex on the outer corners due to no mounting? Well it won’t be as “wobbly”. Anyone that has seen plate designs for both knows this.
A lot of the bad comments towards this aren’t really based on anything apart from what they guess will happen, it’s kinda disappointing.
Hey xondat, thanks for the translation. If corner flexibility was the concern, then there is absolutely no "wobble". In fact the plate corners on the Omega 60 have less flex then the Alphas.
Also more on topic, could you perhaps run a flex sim with a polycarbonate plate (or similar)? 0.03mm peak flex isn’t going to be noticeable in the real world.
hiney shared similar reservations in Discord, which I replied in an earlier post:
pretty good analysis on stuff. I've been meaning to do some basic displacement sims too, just haven't had a chance :( good info, it's definitely of use to others.
If you zoom in, you can see the maximum displacement values. However those values are quite meaningless as the force of 10N is arbitrary, and a PCB would stiffen the plate right up, further diminishing their usefulness. The sims are for visual reference, to give an idea on relative stiffness of areas within the plate.
With the simulation, the goal was not to generate accurate displacement values, but rather to have an understanding of the relative displacement. Imagine a traditional tray mounted 60%, you know exactly where the mounting poles are during typing as they feel and sound significantly different compared to areas around the mounting pole. Even though the actual deflection around the pole may be much less then 0.1mm during normal typing, you are very much able to notice the difference. A very hard typist may peak at ~5N of force at each keypress, and closer to 0.5-1.5N for a typical person. These force values when simulated results in tiny amount of actual plate deflection values and are quite meaningless, yet the simulation would somewhat accurately represent graphically how that area "feels and sounds" when typing.
Hope you see that i'm using the simulation simply as a tool to predict the "expected" typing experience, and design my plate with the information in mind (mostly in regards to the space bar cut and the mounting positions), rather then to expect the simulation to produce hard empirical data that my simplistic simulation definitely could not accurately generate.
Post by: xondat on Wed, 13 February 2019, 12:41:59
Hey xondat, thanks for the translation. If corner flexibility was the concern, then there is absolutely no "wobble". In fact the plate corners on the Omega 60 have less flex then the Alphas.
With the simulation, the goal was not to generate accurate displacement values, but rather to have an understanding of the relative displacement. Imagine a traditional tray mounted 60%, you know exactly where the mounting poles are during typing as they feel and sound significantly different compared to areas around the mounting pole. Even though the actual deflection around the pole may be much less then 0.1mm during normal typing, you are very much able to notice the difference. A very hard typist may peak at ~5N of force at each keypress, and closer to 0.5-1.5N for a typical person. These force values when simulated results in tiny amount of actual plate deflection values and are quite meaningless, yet the simulation would somewhat accurately represent graphically how that area "feels and sounds" when typing.
Hope you see that i'm using the simulation simply as a tool to predict the "expected" typing experience, and design my plate with the information in mind (mostly in regards to the space bar cut and the mounting positions), rather then to expect the simulation to produce hard empirical data that my simplistic simulation definitely could not accurately generate.
Of course the corners have less flex than the alphas, but there is still corner flex vs directly where the mounting post is - this is what he's referencing. :p
Yeah true, I guess people won't feel a difference between say 1 and H because the amount is so insignificant. I don't think a simulation based on flex can "somewhat accurately represent" feel and sound though, especially considering they're missing a lot of information from the start.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 13 February 2019, 19:58:37
Of course the corners have less flex than the alphas, but there is still corner flex vs directly where the mounting post is - this is what he's referencing. :p
Not sure why the corners on my design are given special attention though. All top mount designs on the market will have areas of more or less flex around the plate parameter, farther or closer to the mounting point. :-\
Yeah true, I guess people won't feel a difference between say 1 and H because the amount is so insignificant.
I think there is a misunderstanding on what I wrote... I was trying to say that you can absolutely tell the difference between tiny differences in deflection value (at the mounting post Vs. areas near by), where when represented graphically is useful as a visual guide.
I don't think a simulation based on flex can "somewhat accurately represent" feel and sound though, especially considering they're missing a lot of information from the start.
I guess here is where we have to disagree. Whilst the switches & PCB is the major missing component to the simulations, they are also relatively even in their distribution as a reinforcement to the plate. Although not simulated, they could be regarded as even distribution of reduced deflection within their coverage area.
Since we are not looking at absolute deflection values, but the relative deflection, the data is still useful to represent actual typing experience, and if you get a chance to type on one of my 60%, or even run simulations of your own, hopefully you'll agree that the simulations do represent somewhat accurately the felt typing experience as a visual representation.
You'll never achieve perfect simulations with 100% of factors simulated, however that does not mean let's say data generated using 60% factors simulated with good assumptions are useless. As long as you make good assumptions and know the limitations, the data is always useful.
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 13 February 2019, 20:17:04
Post by: kmba on Sat, 16 February 2019, 23:12:37
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 21 February 2019, 08:56:04
- New anodizing samples are coming in from the new factory.
- Once the samples are approved, order will be placed and production will start.
- Quoted machining lead time about ~3 weeks
- Once the machining is done, samples from the production batch will be anodized and sent to me for inspection and approval.
- If approved, GB will start.
- After GB, parts will be anodized to the ordered color, and plates will be ordered.
From GB to shipping - targeting within around 1 month.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: juaninamilli on Thu, 21 February 2019, 09:00:22
Post by: juaninamilli on Wed, 06 March 2019, 00:45:20
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 06 March 2019, 04:29:58
Any update on this?
The deposit has been placed, and the order is in fabrication.
More updates to come. ;)
Post by: vicissitude on Wed, 06 March 2019, 05:33:03
Post by: juaninamilli on Wed, 06 March 2019, 07:48:33
Any update on this?
The deposit has been placed, and the order is in fabrication.
More updates to come. ;)
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 08 March 2019, 20:19:54
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Optional Nameplate prototype - pickled for a nautical theme...
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
Post by: newbiettn on Fri, 08 March 2019, 20:44:47
Could you show with cherry keycaps as well?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 08 March 2019, 20:54:48
Post by: Furikurichemy on Fri, 08 March 2019, 21:03:56
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 08 March 2019, 21:50:44
Very sleek design. Only comment is the nameplate is obtrusive and doesn’t fit the design of the case imo.
Could you show with cherry keycaps as well?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The nameplate above is just the optional design I'm looking to offer. The standard kit will come with brushed Stainless Steel design for a sleek low profile look:
[attachimg=1]
Cherry keycap with the design can be found on the opening post, here is one for you
[attachimg=2]
Post by: tex_live_utility on Sat, 09 March 2019, 03:14:53
Post by: bengine on Sat, 09 March 2019, 03:56:09
Post by: regionfree on Sat, 09 March 2019, 05:59:58
After testing the Omega during the meetup earlier, I’m really eager to join the GB. It’s impressive!
Same for me (/u/magicpretzel on reddit/instagram here). I was really impressed with the reasoning behind the internals, and the plate design. Was able to spend a good time typing on the Omega prototype and it was really impressive. I'm looking forward to this GB and would definitely get one (or more)!
Post by: vicissitude on Sat, 09 March 2019, 07:50:04
Post by: reidd on Sat, 09 March 2019, 10:00:40
Post by: gok_nz on Sat, 09 March 2019, 14:48:42
After testing the Omega during the meetup earlier, I’m really eager to join the GB. It’s impressive!I saw from reddit that both the volcano660 and the omega60 was at the meetup. How did they compare?
Post by: trg1234 on Sat, 09 March 2019, 15:05:25
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 09 March 2019, 15:18:46
After testing the Omega during the meetup earlier, I’m really eager to join the GB. It’s impressive!I saw from reddit that both the volcano660 and the omega60 was at the meetup. How did they compare?
I thought that was Windeh's Paradox board. Was it the omega?
Post by: garbo on Sat, 09 March 2019, 15:55:21
After testing the Omega during the meetup earlier, I’m really eager to join the GB. It’s impressive!I saw from reddit that both the volcano660 and the omega60 was at the meetup. How did they compare?
I thought that was Windeh's Paradox board. Was it the omega?
https://imgur.com/a/WDQqlTl
Looks like he had the old protos as well as the new one.
Post by: kuished on Sat, 09 March 2019, 22:28:26
They are all very impressive boards, especially after Windeh did a live disassembly and commentary of the internals and how and why he designed it the way he did.
Post by: regionfree on Sun, 10 March 2019, 03:27:44
I had the chance to test the Paradox, Reflex, and Omega extensively at the Singapore meetup.
They are all very impressive boards, especially after Windeh did a live disassembly and commentary of the internals and how and why he designed it the way he did.
yeah, that was the most interesting part of the meet up. it was a very interesting keyboard science session understanding why the parts were designed the way he did, how everything works together in terms of distributing the force and vibrations around the pieces, and how sound the overall design was. glad that he's based in SG :D hopefully we get our own group GB :D
Post by: juaninamilli on Sun, 10 March 2019, 10:49:06
I had the chance to test the Paradox, Reflex, and Omega extensively at the Singapore meetup.
They are all very impressive boards, especially after Windeh did a live disassembly and commentary of the internals and how and why he designed it the way he did.
yeah, that was the most interesting part of the meet up. it was a very interesting keyboard science session understanding why the parts were designed the way he did, how everything works together in terms of distributing the force and vibrations around the pieces, and how sound the overall design was. glad that he's based in SG :D hopefully we get our own group GB :D
Post by: regionfree on Sun, 10 March 2019, 11:13:37
I had the chance to test the Paradox, Reflex, and Omega extensively at the Singapore meetup.
They are all very impressive boards, especially after Windeh did a live disassembly and commentary of the internals and how and why he designed it the way he did.
yeah, that was the most interesting part of the meet up. it was a very interesting keyboard science session understanding why the parts were designed the way he did, how everything works together in terms of distributing the force and vibrations around the pieces, and how sound the overall design was. glad that he's based in SG :D hopefully we get our own group GB :D
we are begging him, but he has a word to keep to those early supporters of paradox/reflex, I think, and we really appreciate him doing that. we're just teasing him to have a local run. it's a really cool board.
Post by: juaninamilli on Sun, 10 March 2019, 11:15:49
Having a local only sale would be the exact opposite of regionfreeI had the chance to test the Paradox, Reflex, and Omega extensively at the Singapore meetup.
They are all very impressive boards, especially after Windeh did a live disassembly and commentary of the internals and how and why he designed it the way he did.
yeah, that was the most interesting part of the meet up. it was a very interesting keyboard science session understanding why the parts were designed the way he did, how everything works together in terms of distributing the force and vibrations around the pieces, and how sound the overall design was. glad that he's based in SG :D hopefully we get our own group GB :D
we are begging him, but he has a word to keep to those early supporters of paradox/reflex, I think, and we really appreciate him doing that. we're just teasing him to have a local run. it's a really cool board.
Post by: regionfree on Sun, 10 March 2019, 11:23:07
Having a local only sale would be the exact opposite of regionfreeI had the chance to test the Paradox, Reflex, and Omega extensively at the Singapore meetup.
They are all very impressive boards, especially after Windeh did a live disassembly and commentary of the internals and how and why he designed it the way he did.
yeah, that was the most interesting part of the meet up. it was a very interesting keyboard science session understanding why the parts were designed the way he did, how everything works together in terms of distributing the force and vibrations around the pieces, and how sound the overall design was. glad that he's based in SG :D hopefully we get our own group GB :D
we are begging him, but he has a word to keep to those early supporters of paradox/reflex, I think, and we really appreciate him doing that. we're just teasing him to have a local run. it's a really cool board.
ok, you got me :D
Post by: oldcat on Sun, 10 March 2019, 12:08:05
Curious how much height does gasket add to the profile
Post by: Marutks on Mon, 11 March 2019, 08:03:57
https://kbdfans.cn/products/dz60-cnc-aluminum-plate?variant=2208864534541
it is 2u left shift brass plate, compatible with dz60 pcb and kbdfans 5 degree case
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 11 March 2019, 08:48:13
Looks great. Got a typing test for us?
I'm looking to ask the local peeps if they could help me record some typing tests... and planning to sent a sample overseas to do the same.
After testing the Omega during the meetup earlier, I’m really eager to join the GB. It’s impressive!
After testing the Omega during the meetup earlier, I’m really eager to join the GB. It’s impressive!
Same for me (/u/magicpretzel on reddit/instagram here). I was really impressed with the reasoning behind the internals, and the plate design. Was able to spend a good time typing on the Omega prototype and it was really impressive. I'm looking forward to this GB and would definitely get one (or more)!
Thanks guys! Was great meeting the local community. :thumb:
Ano samples need to hurry up... I want this ;D
I have the color samples already, and will have a board anodized in Navy Blue coming to me hopefully this week. ;)
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 11 March 2019, 09:09:00
Hey windeh do you have a discord server for your projects?
I'll probably set one up soon for everyone to join. Currently there is only the one channel setup for those that paid for the Paradox / Reflex GB.
What is the height of the bezel front end?
Curious how much height does gasket add to the profile
The front edge is just under 20mm. However the keycap bottom height is recessed into the bezel by about 2mm, so the keys sit slightly lower, and you don't easily see the bottom edge of the caps, which also reduces the visual size of the bezel gap.
Cherry Side Profile:
[attachimg=1]
SA:
[attachimg=2]
Try looking at your keyboard at this angle for comparison:
[attachimg=3]
The mounting design have no affect on the required board front bezel height. I can lower the front height to under 15mm if that was my goal... ;)
I filled the form. I wonder if your case is compatible with this plate:
https://kbdfans.cn/products/dz60-cnc-aluminum-plate?variant=2208864534541
it is 2u left shift brass plate, compatible with dz60 pcb and kbdfans 5 degree case
The board will only work with the included plate, as it is not a tray mount design for the plate you linked.
Post by: nickaster1 on Mon, 11 March 2019, 11:44:46
mean putting it on the outside instead of putting it on the inside. Thanks
Post by: otanishock on Tue, 12 March 2019, 18:48:07
Would you consider making the brass weight visible in the future? By that I
mean putting it on the outside instead of putting it on the inside. Thanks
Edit: Sorry didn't catch the word "future".
Post by: b3nkei on Wed, 13 March 2019, 18:45:02
Post by: RivieraS on Fri, 15 March 2019, 18:51:07
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 15 March 2019, 22:23:47
Would you consider making the brass weight visible in the future? By that I
mean putting it on the outside instead of putting it on the inside. Thanks
I future designs, exposed weight is definitely a possibility. :thumb:
Do you plan on doing round 2 just after the first one? It's a shame there's so few spots. The keyboard looks amazing :thumb:
I do plan to run a R2, in fact so many are going to wait for R2 that I'm not sure if R1 will be filled all that fast... :D
Post by: nickaster1 on Fri, 15 March 2019, 22:39:52
Haha I might have to wait for R2 as well. Recent GBs drained all my budget for keyboardsWould you consider making the brass weight visible in the future? By that I
mean putting it on the outside instead of putting it on the inside. Thanks
I future designs, exposed weight is definitely a possibility. :thumb:Do you plan on doing round 2 just after the first one? It's a shame there's so few spots. The keyboard looks amazing :thumb:
I do plan to run a R2, in fact so many are going to wait for R2 that I'm not sure if R1 will be filled all that fast... :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Albatross on Sat, 16 March 2019, 20:36:21
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 16 March 2019, 22:34:25
Of course R2 is not guaranteed, just planned, with no timeline in mind.
I'm still waiting for Exclusive's E7V1 R2 with name tag that he said might happen after R1... :-\
Post by: Furikurichemy on Sat, 16 March 2019, 23:14:40
Post by: Albatross on Mon, 18 March 2019, 00:39:22
Post by: b3nkei on Thu, 28 March 2019, 11:31:50
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 29 March 2019, 00:51:36
Any updates on when the gb is gonna be?
The first sample from the order with anodizing was rejected.
The factory made 2 more samples on 2 different CNC machines, and only one met the specified tolerances. I just received that sample yesterday, and looks really good, so the remaining order will start machining soon.
Current ETA for GB is Mid April.
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 29 March 2019, 11:13:49
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
The sample will be sent for anodizing locally.
I have given approval for machining all remaining kits.
Stainless Steel Nameplate logo have been finalized.
[attachimg=3]
Blank nameplates will be optional extras. No other nameplate options will be offered.
All kits will be serialized after anodizing, hidden under the nameplate.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 29 March 2019, 11:19:04
Post by: Veiox on Fri, 29 March 2019, 22:46:38
Post by: Furikurichemy on Sat, 30 March 2019, 08:13:13
Post by: yuppie on Mon, 01 April 2019, 00:11:02
Post by: Windeh on Fri, 05 April 2019, 10:26:16
[attachimg=1]
Matte Dark Grey Vs. Gloss Deep Red
Post by: yuppie on Fri, 05 April 2019, 11:59:04
(Attachment Link)
Matte Dark Grey Vs. Gloss Deep Red
Make a 65 version and I'll buy both colors.
Post by: ptiede on Fri, 05 April 2019, 14:03:50
I think we get it...
(Attachment Link)
Matte Dark Grey Vs. Gloss Deep Red
Make a 65 version and I'll buy both colors.
Post by: Furikurichemy on Fri, 05 April 2019, 22:28:22
Any chance that Nautical Brass name plate will be an option?
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 06 April 2019, 05:11:43
[attachimg=1]
Post by: proboy84 on Sat, 06 April 2019, 05:59:31
(Attachment Link)
Nice color match!!
Post by: b3nkei on Sat, 06 April 2019, 07:56:57
(https://i.imgur.com/ZYN55YR.jpg)
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 06 April 2019, 09:06:26
What color is this one? I thought this was the grey and the one with space cadet was black.
Actually they're the same Matte Dark Grey case, just with the key assembly swapped around.
Post by: CactusSpace on Sun, 07 April 2019, 12:38:46
When will the GB start? :p :p :p
Post by: BKnox on Sun, 07 April 2019, 16:16:05
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 08 April 2019, 21:16:57
I'm in. Waiting for GB to drop.
When will the GB start? :p :p :p
When ready, as the cool kids would say... :cool:
But should be sometime this month, in limited quantities.
Post by: Marutks on Sat, 13 April 2019, 19:01:28
I am interested in Dark Grey , it looks great :thumb:
Post by: Windeh on Tue, 16 April 2019, 05:18:49
is this case compatible with dz60 PCB from kbdfans?
I am interested in Dark Grey , it looks great :thumb:
The case should be compatible with the non-hotswap version of the DZ60 PCB.
Post by: steelpop on Tue, 23 April 2019, 07:57:12
I need to make own plate of another pcb.
Post by: Slash Emperor on Tue, 23 April 2019, 08:22:53
(Attachment Link)
Ooh, that's a very nice red. I'd love to see how DSA Drifter looks on it.
Post by: BKnox on Tue, 23 April 2019, 10:23:28
Post by: pheonix991 on Tue, 23 April 2019, 13:33:39
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 25 April 2019, 10:44:40
Do you have plans to publish plate designs on github?
I need to make own plate of another pcb.
I will send the plate file to any GB Participants that requests them. :thumb:
Any updates for us?
I have finally received the Navy Blue anodizing sample in the shade that I wanted...
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Samples in Navy Blue and Black will be made. The GB will start once I'm happy with anodizing quality in all 4 color options.
The 18 total slots may include B-Stock at slight discount, pending QC after anodizing.
Post by: Zilleon on Thu, 25 April 2019, 11:04:12
Looking at the pictures it looks like the blue is a shade of purple. Is that really the case? Or just lightning not being ideal in the photo?Do you have plans to publish plate designs on github?
I need to make own plate of another pcb.
I will send the plate file to any GB Participants that requests them. :thumb:Any updates for us?
I have finally received the Navy Blue anodizing sample in the shade that I wanted...
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Samples in Navy Blue and Black will be made. The GB will start once I'm happy with anodizing quality in all 4 color options.
The 18 total slots may include B-Stock at slight discount, pending QC after anodizing.
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 25 April 2019, 11:05:15
Looking at the pictures it looks like the blue is a shade of purple. Is that really the case? Or just lightning not being ideal in the photo?Do you have plans to publish plate designs on github?
I need to make own plate of another pcb.
I will send the plate file to any GB Participants that requests them. :thumb:Any updates for us?
I have finally received the Navy Blue anodizing sample in the shade that I wanted...
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Samples in Navy Blue and Black will be made. The GB will start once I'm happy with anodizing quality in all 4 color options.
The 18 total slots may include B-Stock at slight discount, pending QC after anodizing.
Maybe it's your monitor. Doesn't look purple at all to me. Looks close to GMK Striker if I were to guess
Post by: Zilleon on Thu, 25 April 2019, 11:19:59
Maybe it's your monitor. Doesn't look purple at all to me. Looks close to GMK Striker if I were to guess
Indeed!
Just looked at a different monitor and it looks totally blue and amazing!
Even more excited about this one now!
Post by: Marutks on Fri, 26 April 2019, 15:53:58
Post by: apexshikari on Thu, 02 May 2019, 07:27:15
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Windeh on Thu, 02 May 2019, 08:31:50
I want to make sure the final product is up to standard before taking any money, so no timelines yet...
Post by: apexshikari on Thu, 02 May 2019, 08:36:41
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: jumpmineralwater on Fri, 03 May 2019, 01:58:11
Partial cases are in anodizing (In Navy Blue & Black), should receive them by next week.
I want to make sure the final product is up to standard before taking any money, so no timelines yet...
Thanks for the update :thumb:
Post by: macclack on Fri, 17 May 2019, 10:49:22
Post by: reidd on Fri, 24 May 2019, 18:27:04
Any news?
Post by: jives on Sat, 25 May 2019, 02:41:29
This board looks amazing!
Post by: jaang on Sat, 25 May 2019, 03:00:31
Post by: Kaktus on Sat, 25 May 2019, 05:17:04
That would enable us to design an ISO plate for this case. :eek:
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 25 May 2019, 06:29:32
Since I have fronted the cost of the order, the Omega60 will no longer be run in a Group Buy format, but instead as an in-stock purchase.
In the pursuit of lowering the cost for each case set as well as better control anodizing color and quality, I have chosen different factories to machine and anodize the cases.
The production batch for the raw machined cases had a 40% rejection rate, and the anodizing again halved the available A-Stock.
A & B-Stock will be offered to Paradox/Reflex participants first, and any remaining will be made available to purchase publicly.
The Anodizing for all A-Stocks will be Hard Anodized Black, whilst B stocks will have an assortment of other anodizing types and colors.
Ordering will start mid-late June.
R2 will likely not run anytime soon as I will again look for a turnkey factory to my quality standard and let the design and pricing determine if the GB will fill the MOQ.
Post by: briano1905 on Sat, 25 May 2019, 06:37:03
Hoping i can still have a shot at this board as it is one of my fav this year
Post by: tex_live_utility on Sat, 25 May 2019, 06:41:57
How many units of each are there, and do you have an approximate price?
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 25 May 2019, 08:36:13
The price will remain per the OP. It would be dumb to raise the price after going through all the effort to bring it down in the first place...
We are looking at up to 6 A-Stock, and around 10-12 total kits for sale.
Post by: jives on Sat, 25 May 2019, 08:51:45
Can’t wait for your next project, maybe I'll get in there :)
Post by: aellena on Thu, 30 May 2019, 17:00:04
Post by: lac29 on Fri, 31 May 2019, 10:33:35
Post by: pheonix991 on Wed, 19 June 2019, 13:08:06
Also, there's a discord? Could someone send it to me?
Post by: ptiede on Wed, 19 June 2019, 14:18:16
Any new updates? I'd really like to not miss this.I believe the discord is really only for people who were in paradox and reflex group buy for the time being.
Also, there's a discord? Could someone send it to me?
Post by: ArchDill on Wed, 19 June 2019, 15:22:34
Hey windeh do you have a discord server for your projects?
I'll probably set one up soon for everyone to join. Currently there is only the one channel setup for those that paid for the Paradox / Reflex GB.What is the height of the bezel front end?
Curious how much height does gasket add to the profile
The front edge is just under 20mm. However the keycap bottom height is recessed into the bezel by about 2mm, so the keys sit slightly lower, and you don't easily see the bottom edge of the caps, which also reduces the visual size of the bezel gap.
Cherry Side Profile:
[attachimg=1]
SA:
[attachimg=2]
Try looking at your keyboard at this angle for comparison:
[attachimg=3]
The mounting design have no affect on the required board front bezel height. I can lower the front height to under 15mm if that was my goal... ;)I filled the form. I wonder if your case is compatible with this plate:
https://kbdfans.cn/products/dz60-cnc-aluminum-plate?variant=2208864534541
it is 2u left shift brass plate, compatible with dz60 pcb and kbdfans 5 degree case
The board will only work with the included plate, as it is not a tray mount design for the plate you linked.
This thing looks so so good
Post by: briano1905 on Sun, 07 July 2019, 08:00:48
If yes I would love to get in if not I'm waiting for R2. more info on that would also be great :)
Post by: juaninamilli on Tue, 09 July 2019, 08:45:45
Very unlikely but ill try anyways. Are there any available spot left?
If yes I would love to get in if not I'm waiting for R2. more info on that would also be great :)
Post by: briano1905 on Wed, 10 July 2019, 06:17:28
This is an IC, not a GB. “R1” hasn’t been released yet.Very unlikely but ill try anyways. Are there any available spot left?
If yes I would love to get in if not I'm waiting for R2. more info on that would also be great :)
from page 3:
There are 22 Paradox / Reflex participants that joined the discord channel, and will get first dibs.
The price will remain per the OP. It would be dumb to raise the price after going through all the effort to bring it down in the first place...
We are looking at up to 6 A-Stock, and around 10-12 total kits for sale.
looks like R1 is limited to those who got in Paradox / Reflex unless i'm missing something
Post by: Windeh on Wed, 10 July 2019, 08:55:43
Post by: Nvmbra on Fri, 06 September 2019, 14:09:52
Is there an estimate for R2 with blockers yet?
Post by: jumpmineralwater on Sat, 14 September 2019, 04:29:47
(https://i.imgur.com/1Iw7zvd.jpg)
Post by: _PixelNinja on Sat, 14 September 2019, 04:32:17
Thanks Windeh for the Omega 60 :thumb:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/1Iw7zvd.jpg)
Ugh. Me want!
Typing tests are welcome if you're willing to make one :p
Post by: ramnes on Sat, 14 September 2019, 05:25:03
Post by: macclack on Sun, 15 September 2019, 20:15:49
Thanks Windeh for the Omega 60 :thumb:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/1Iw7zvd.jpg)
Great looking board. I'd love to see some more builds if anyone cares to post them
Post by: Windeh on Mon, 23 September 2019, 13:56:31
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/d88qih/longawaited_omega_60_build_log_in_comment/
Post by: proboy84 on Mon, 23 September 2019, 14:30:40
proboy84 just posted the buildlog and typing test of his Omega60 on /r/mk. :thumb:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/d88qih/longawaited_omega_60_build_log_in_comment/
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Post by: avtar on Sun, 29 December 2019, 20:35:43