Author Topic: Modded Matias switch comparison  (Read 15793 times)

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Offline chyros

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Modded Matias switch comparison
« on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 12:49:33 »
Something a little different this time; a comparison of stock and modded Matias switches.

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« Last Edit: Sun, 24 May 2015, 13:47:22 by chyros »
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Offline IAmTheGuy

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 28 May 2015, 19:37:47 »
Nice video, that's some interesting stuff.

Offline zombimuncha

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 30 May 2015, 05:49:25 »
I'm wondering how much difference the mounting makes to the sound and feel of these.
My experience with the clicky switches is limited to the two I added to my order of replacements for the quiet switch I broke on my Quiet-Pro due to excessive tinkering with the leaves and stems (crushed the contact leaf), so I'm a little wary of opening them up at the moment, but I'm surprised how little sound the clicky switch makes on its own. After adding a keycap it makes a bit more sound, but with the switch mounted in a ball of blu-tack it's still a fair bit quieter than MX Blues.
In the video you have them mounted in a solid steel(?) plate with a very small resonant chamber underneath, and they all still sound very quiet to me. This contradicts what everybody seems to say about Matias clicky switches - that they're very loud!

Offline Dihedral

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 30 May 2015, 06:07:41 »
I'm wondering how much difference the mounting makes to the sound and feel of these.
My experience with the clicky switches is limited to the two I added to my order of replacements for the quiet switch I broke on my Quiet-Pro due to excessive tinkering with the leaves and stems (crushed the contact leaf), so I'm a little wary of opening them up at the moment, but I'm surprised how little sound the clicky switch makes on its own. After adding a keycap it makes a bit more sound, but with the switch mounted in a ball of blu-tack it's still a fair bit quieter than MX Blues.
In the video you have them mounted in a solid steel(?) plate with a very small resonant chamber underneath, and they all still sound very quiet to me. This contradicts what everybody seems to say about Matias clicky switches - that they're very loud!

I think I'm authorised to talk about the mounting as I designed and sold it :) The metal is 304 stainless steel, and is 1.5mm thick. This is near enough an industry standard and is what you will find in many keyboards (as well as a large majority of community built plates). As you can see in the video, the switch holder is open at each end so I don't think much of a resonance effect is at play. This should be a similar sound to that you would get from a matias switch mounted in any Stainless Steel keyboard plate. I have tried blue and matias click switches and to my ears the Matias Click ones are slightly louder, but also have slightly sharper and more defined click noises.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 30 May 2015, 06:20:10 »
On another note, I've now fully watched the video, and your observations seem accurate with what I expected. I was impressed by the difference that the dampened sliders made on sound. I think I would like the 'Quiet Slider / Click Leaf' switches - they sound nice and I think it would be fun to type on a whole board of them.

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 30 May 2015, 06:25:38 »
This contradicts what everybody seems to say about Matias clicky switches - that they're very loud!
This is a camera artefact; they are in fact loud as ****.
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Offline zombimuncha

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 30 May 2015, 16:48:48 »
This contradicts what everybody seems to say about Matias clicky switches - that they're very loud!
This is a camera artefact; they are in fact loud as ****.

So confused!
They're loud AF, but in the vid you mentioned that the dampened click switch was considerably quieter than the undampened tactile, so this suggests that more than half of the noise of the clicky switch is coming from the clack, which is essentially the same as MX Red, for the sake of the argument, which is not known for being a loud switch.
This actually matches my observation that the click from my unmounted clicky switch is not very loud, so... um.... when does it become loud AF? Or louder than MX blue?

I was surprised by how much louder the switch got just by adding a keycap, so I'm assuming even more mass and resonant space below it, in the form of an actual keyboard, will make it louder. Did I just answer my own question? Didn't Dihedral just say this wasn't the case? Or did I read it wrong? What do you get when you multiply six by nine?

Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 30 May 2015, 16:58:44 »
This contradicts what everybody seems to say about Matias clicky switches - that they're very loud!
This is a camera artefact; they are in fact loud as ****.
this suggests that more than half of the noise of the clicky switch is coming from the clack
Yes, I mention this in the video when I compare the noise of the tactile switch compared to that of the quiet click switch.


Quote
I was surprised by how much louder the switch got just by adding a keycap, so I'm assuming even more mass and resonant space below it, in the form of an actual keyboard, will make it louder. Did I just answer my own question? Didn't Dihedral just say this wasn't the case? Or did I read it wrong? What do you get when you multiply six by nine?
Calm your tits mate, I can't even follow you! xD

The clack noise in undampened switches is often the majority of the noise. The level and actual texture of the noise greatly depends on the case and the mounting plate. Boards with thin mounting plates for instance add a characteristic pinging sound to the noise. Boards with rattly cases sound louder and more rattly than very solid boards. In any case, that switch tester is a pretty good tester as switches don't sound TOO different in it than they do in an average board, and if anything, it's a good interswitch comparison.

Quote
Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...
Try the quiet click option. You might be pleasantly surprised :) .
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline Dihedral

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 05:09:33 »
Quote
that switch tester is a pretty good tester

Damn right it is! :)

Offline zombimuncha

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 07:17:46 »
Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...
Try the quiet click option. You might be pleasantly surprised :) .

I actually find myself wishing I could have the dampening only on the upstroke. I expect if I clipped the bottom off the rubber-buggy-bumper it would likely fall out.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 09:05:08 »
Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...
Try the quiet click option. You might be pleasantly surprised :) .

I actually find myself wishing I could have the dampening only on the upstroke. I expect if I clipped the bottom off the rubber-buggy-bumper it would likely fall out.

You could probably give the sliders a little bit of padding with some foam superglued to the sides or something so when the slider comes back to the top of the housing it is cushioned.

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 11:51:02 »
Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...
Try the quiet click option. You might be pleasantly surprised :) .

I actually find myself wishing I could have the dampening only on the upstroke. I expect if I clipped the bottom off the rubber-buggy-bumper it would likely fall out.

You could probably give the sliders a little bit of padding with some foam superglued to the sides or something so when the slider comes back to the top of the housing it is cushioned.
More simply, use a housing from a non-dampened switch. The bumpers don't actually stick out below the slider, so in order to make it work, Alps added two posts on either side of the slider to meet the bumpers. They went for this system so as to impact key travel as little as possible. As such, downstroke dampening doesn't work on non-dampened housings.
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Offline Dihedral

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 12:31:01 »
Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...
Try the quiet click option. You might be pleasantly surprised :) .

I actually find myself wishing I could have the dampening only on the upstroke. I expect if I clipped the bottom off the rubber-buggy-bumper it would likely fall out.

You could probably give the sliders a little bit of padding with some foam superglued to the sides or something so when the slider comes back to the top of the housing it is cushioned.
More simply, use a housing from a non-dampened switch. The bumpers don't actually stick out below the slider, so in order to make it work, Alps added two posts on either side of the slider to meet the bumpers. They went for this system so as to impact key travel as little as possible. As such, downstroke dampening doesn't work on non-dampened housings.

How would that help the upstroke?

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 12:50:31 »
Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...
Try the quiet click option. You might be pleasantly surprised :) .
Use the top shell from the original dampened switch.

I actually find myself wishing I could have the dampening only on the upstroke. I expect if I clipped the bottom off the rubber-buggy-bumper it would likely fall out.

You could probably give the sliders a little bit of padding with some foam superglued to the sides or something so when the slider comes back to the top of the housing it is cushioned.
More simply, use a housing from a non-dampened switch. The bumpers don't actually stick out below the slider, so in order to make it work, Alps added two posts on either side of the slider to meet the bumpers. They went for this system so as to impact key travel as little as possible. As such, downstroke dampening doesn't work on non-dampened housings.

How would that help the upstroke?
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Offline Dihedral

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 13:01:43 »
Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...
Try the quiet click option. You might be pleasantly surprised :) .
Use the top shell from the original dampened switch.

I actually find myself wishing I could have the dampening only on the upstroke. I expect if I clipped the bottom off the rubber-buggy-bumper it would likely fall out.

You could probably give the sliders a little bit of padding with some foam superglued to the sides or something so when the slider comes back to the top of the housing it is cushioned.
More simply, use a housing from a non-dampened switch. The bumpers don't actually stick out below the slider, so in order to make it work, Alps added two posts on either side of the slider to meet the bumpers. They went for this system so as to impact key travel as little as possible. As such, downstroke dampening doesn't work on non-dampened housings.

How would that help the upstroke?

You didn't post anything...

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 13:30:38 »
Tangentially, just based on the sound from the video, I like the clicky switch the best. I like the KERCHUNK effect it gives. But I know that my Quiet switches have a KERCHUNK feeling without all the racket, so maybe I would like one of the in-between variants too...
Try the quiet click option. You might be pleasantly surprised :) .
Use the top shell from the original dampened switch.

I actually find myself wishing I could have the dampening only on the upstroke. I expect if I clipped the bottom off the rubber-buggy-bumper it would likely fall out.

You could probably give the sliders a little bit of padding with some foam superglued to the sides or something so when the slider comes back to the top of the housing it is cushioned.
More simply, use a housing from a non-dampened switch. The bumpers don't actually stick out below the slider, so in order to make it work, Alps added two posts on either side of the slider to meet the bumpers. They went for this system so as to impact key travel as little as possible. As such, downstroke dampening doesn't work on non-dampened housings.

How would that help the upstroke?

You didn't post anything...
Weird.

I said just use the top shell from the undampened switch.
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Offline zombimuncha

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 15:09:43 »
oh, cool. I had assumed the housings were identical.
I think it's time to start cracking open some more Matias switches :thumb:. If I break any more of them it's your fault Chyros :p

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 01 June 2015, 04:28:54 »
oh, cool. I had assumed the housings were identical.
I think it's time to start cracking open some more Matias switches :thumb:. If I break any more of them it's your fault Chyros :p
No, both the housing and top shell has to meet the damper. That's the Alps system, at least. Looking at it not though, it would seem as if they didn't bother to differentiate as much at Matias Oo .

If you're afraid of breaking any, I have a tutorial on how to deal with Alps switches :) .
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 01 June 2015, 04:59:34 »
You didn’t mention it, but the springs are also different between the two switches. If you swapped the tactile leaves without swapping the springs as well, you’ll get different stiffness switches than the originals (a reduced-force damped click switch and an increased-force undamped tactile switch). This might affect your preferences; it will definitely affect how tactile a switch seems.

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 01 June 2015, 16:26:28 »
Interesting, I wasn't aware they used different springs :) . Even more ways to toy around with these :) .
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Offline zombimuncha

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 01 June 2015, 16:48:49 »
I tried swapping the top and bottom housing around but it doesn't seem to make any difference. The dampened slider is equally dampened in either housing.
Of the two "hybrid" switches I preferred the undamped tactile, but overall still preferred the unmodded clicky switch slightly.
It seems most of the noise from these switches comes from the clack, and the click is really very quiet. I'm not sure why they clack so much louder than MX switches. The click is actually much softer than the click from MX blue.

After fixing the broken switch in my QuietPro I had 3/4 of a quiet switch to play with so I clipped the bottoms off the rubber bumpers and put it in a switch with a clicky leaf. So it's basically a standard Matias clicky switch but damped on the upstroke. I like it a lot! I managed to trim enough rubber off so that it no longer protrudes below the stem, but there's still enough of a remnant of the end-bulb that it doesn't fall out. So far....

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 01 June 2015, 18:57:11 »
Click is way louder than MX blue if you compare bare switches, but it’s metal on plastic rather than plastic on plastic, so the pitch is deeper, and the higher pitched MX blue click resonates more in ABS keycaps or in a hollow ABS case.

If you want to understand the difference in sound propagation you’ll have to ask an acoustics expert though.

Offline IAmTheGuy

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 16 June 2015, 23:05:23 »
Do you know if I can swap out my matias quiet click keys with matias linear keys without desoldering?  Is the bottom half of the switch casing identical for both types?

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 17 June 2015, 03:50:30 »
Yes, you can do that. It’s a bit tricky though, and fairly easy to damage the metal contacts if you aren’t careful.

Offline IAmTheGuy

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 20 June 2015, 02:54:56 »
Ah ok thx man.

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 03 September 2016, 13:11:04 »
I tried swapping the top and bottom housing around but it doesn't seem to make any difference. The dampened slider is equally dampened in either housing.
Of the two "hybrid" switches I preferred the undamped tactile, but overall still preferred the unmodded clicky switch slightly.
It seems most of the noise from these switches comes from the clack, and the click is really very quiet. I'm not sure why they clack so much louder than MX switches. The click is actually much softer than the click from MX blue.

After fixing the broken switch in my QuietPro I had 3/4 of a quiet switch to play with so I clipped the bottoms off the rubber bumpers and put it in a switch with a clicky leaf. So it's basically a standard Matias clicky switch but damped on the upstroke. I like it a lot! I managed to trim enough rubber off so that it no longer protrudes below the stem, but there's still enough of a remnant of the end-bulb that it doesn't fall out. So far....

Apologies for resurrecting a necropost, but it seemed appropriate to reply here rather than creating a new thread.

I've been considering doing this semi-damp mod of Matias switches for some time. Your post plus this video:


helped convince me that it is indeed possible. I like the feel of undamped Matias switches and the quietness of Matias Quiet switches. However, I don't like the slightly mushy feel of the downstroke on Matias Quiet switches. Therefore, clipping the bottom damper should do the trick.

I've also thought of putting a Matias Quiet switch on just the spacebar on an Alps or Matias-switch keyboard to help quiet spacebar noise.

Recently, I acquired a Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps switches. Although the keyboard was quite clean and the plate was not corroded at all, several of the keys exhibited binding when the key presses were not dead-center. I found that opening the switches, cleaning them, lubing the slider rails, and reassembling took care of the binding problem. Because I was going t open the switches anyway, I thought that I could create a board with hybrid white Alps/Matias switches.

I've started with the spacebar. I removed the slider from the white Alps switch and replaced it with the gray slider from a Matias Quiet switch. I kept the original click leaf, spring, and housing from the white Alps switch. The result is quite nice. The switch has a very quiet click, and the clack of both the downstroke and return stroke are gone. I don't mind a bit of mushiness in the spacebar in exchange for substantial noise reduction.

I haven't decided yet what to do with the remaining switches, but I am strongly considering replacing the sliders with those from Matias Quiet switches whose lower dampers have been clipped off. This should result in faintly clicking keys with full downstroke clack but substantially damped return stroke sound. The effect should be somewhat reminiscent of Topre switches with Silencing Rings (which damp only the return stroke and not the downstroke).


Offline zombimuncha

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 04 September 2016, 14:33:13 »
THATS MY VIDEO!
OMG, the great Hypersphere is following in my footsteps! Squeee!
Yeah, the semi-clipped bumpers thing is definitely... something. I swapped the springs at the same time and ended up not liking it at all. I started swapping the springs back but then the Zealio craze swept the globe and I haven't been able to work up the enthusiasm to finish the job, without even knowing whether it was the springs or the sliders that made me not like it. And damn but those Click and Quiet Click springs look so similar, and are really not much different in weighting - it's hard to find the right spring to swap back in. And they're so flimsy you can't put a coin or something on top of the spring to see how far it goes down. It'll just fall off and the spring will fly away behind the couch in the next room.
If you do it, I'd suggest doing just your homerow to begin with. That should be enough to tell whether or not you like it. And maybe colour-code the springs with a magic marker while you have the switches open - just in case.

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 05 September 2016, 12:47:06 »
@zombimuncha: Thanks for the excellent advice. After putting switches with various combinations of components on the home row of a Northgate Omnikey 101, I decided to go with the original white Alps switches (after cleaning all the components and lubing the switch rails with Suplerlube 51010 oil). I had high hopes for the Matias Quiet sliders with the bottom dampers clipped. They were okay, but I preferred the sound and feel of the white Alps.

BTW, I also tried Matias Quiet sliders without clipping the bottom dampers, and I confirmed my dislike of the slightly mushy feel upon bottoming out the keystrokes. Finally, I tried a Matias slider with a click-modded Matias tactile leaf -- this switch felt heavier to me, and again, I preferred the unmodified white Alps.

I have kept an unmodified Matias Quiet switch on the spacebar.

Offline czarek

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 19 September 2016, 14:59:54 »
I also tried dampened linear (quiet switches without tactile leaves) on a full V60 board and really enjoyed it. I highly recommend giving it a try :)
« Last Edit: Mon, 19 September 2016, 15:01:39 by czarek »
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Offline klennkellon

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:01:50 »
@zombimuncha: Thanks for the excellent advice. After putting switches with various combinations of components on the home row of a Northgate Omnikey 101, I decided to go with the original white Alps switches (after cleaning all the components and lubing the switch rails with Suplerlube 51010 oil). I had high hopes for the Matias Quiet sliders with the bottom dampers clipped. They were okay, but I preferred the sound and feel of the white Alps.

BTW, I also tried Matias Quiet sliders without clipping the bottom dampers, and I confirmed my dislike of the slightly mushy feel upon bottoming out the keystrokes. Finally, I tried a Matias slider with a click-modded Matias tactile leaf -- this switch felt heavier to me, and again, I preferred the unmodified white Alps.

I have kept an unmodified Matias Quiet switch on the spacebar.
Nothing beats the sound of a true SKCM switch.

I do think that Quiet Clicks are superior feeling to dampened cream and SKCM black, though.

Offline PollandAkuma

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 05:35:23 »
Unrelated: I just had the weirdest experience, both the videos started playing at the same time, and I played around with the timing so it sounded like an echo, which game me a headache  :confused:

The quiet tactile sounds almost like mx browns. I have clears now, looks like matias clickys will be interesting to try! By the way chryros, have you tried Matias linears? how are they? What are some good linears, vintage or new?
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 September 2016, 05:37:05 by PollandAkuma »

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 07:20:07 »
I have tried Matias linears, but not in a board. They're very light, and quite smooth from what I can tell.

Linear or linearised Alps in general (when in good condition of course) are REALLY smooth and pleasant. The smoothest switches I've tried so far are Fujitsu leaf spring.
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Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 07:42:57 »
I've tried Matias Quiet Linear switches in a KBP V60. They were a bit light but okay; however, I missed the excellent tactile feedback of the Matias Quiet and Matias Click switches, so I sold the keyboard.

Although for the most part I do not like Cherry mx or its clones, I do rather like Gateron Yellow switches. They are very smooth and in the sweet spot for actuation and bottoming-out forces: a bit heavier than Cherry mx red and lighter than Cherry mx black.

Back to Matias -- If you have an Alps keyboard with undamped sliders, I can highly recommend swapping out the slider and leaf from the Spacebar switch for the slider and leaf from a Matias Quiet switch. This goes a long way toward eliminating unwanted Spacebar noise.


Offline PollandAkuma

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 09:40:34 »
I have tried Matias linears, but not in a board. They're very light, and quite smooth from what I can tell.

Linear or linearised Alps in general (when in good condition of course) are REALLY smooth and pleasant. The smoothest switches I've tried so far are Fujitsu leaf spring.

I imagine that Matias Linears would feel similar to Gateron clears since they are the same weight. Damn, Fujitsu doing the work of gods. Got any advice on how to find some leaf springs in London?

I've tried Matias Quiet Linear switches in a KBP V60. They were a bit light but okay; however, I missed the excellent tactile feedback of the Matias Quiet and Matias Click switches, so I sold the keyboard.

Although for the most part I do not like Cherry mx or its clones, I do rather like Gateron Yellow switches. They are very smooth and in the sweet spot for actuation and bottoming-out forces: a bit heavier than Cherry mx red and lighter than Cherry mx black.

Back to Matias -- If you have an Alps keyboard with undamped sliders, I can highly recommend swapping out the slider and leaf from the Spacebar switch for the slider and leaf from a Matias Quiet switch. This goes a long way toward eliminating unwanted Spacebar noise.


I heard good things about gateron yellows/blacks. definitely want to try a gate yellow keyboard!


Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 22:33:08 »
I have tried Matias linears, but not in a board. They're very light, and quite smooth from what I can tell.

Linear or linearised Alps in general (when in good condition of course) are REALLY smooth and pleasant. The smoothest switches I've tried so far are Fujitsu leaf spring.

I imagine that Matias Linears would feel similar to Gateron clears since they are the same weight. Damn, Fujitsu doing the work of gods. Got any advice on how to find some leaf springs in London?

I've tried Matias Quiet Linear switches in a KBP V60. They were a bit light but okay; however, I missed the excellent tactile feedback of the Matias Quiet and Matias Click switches, so I sold the keyboard.

Although for the most part I do not like Cherry mx or its clones, I do rather like Gateron Yellow switches. They are very smooth and in the sweet spot for actuation and bottoming-out forces: a bit heavier than Cherry mx red and lighter than Cherry mx black.

Back to Matias -- If you have an Alps keyboard with undamped sliders, I can highly recommend swapping out the slider and leaf from the Spacebar switch for the slider and leaf from a Matias Quiet switch. This goes a long way toward eliminating unwanted Spacebar noise.


I heard good things about gateron yellows/blacks. definitely want to try a gate yellow keyboard!
Fujitsu actually made some seriously impressive switch designs but very few work on modern computers, even ones with DIN plugs. FLS boards also only come with stiff as a board or light as a feather weightings Oo . Coincidentally my Fujitsu magnetic reed keyboard (come to think of it those are even smoother than FLS) came from London xD .
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Offline PollandAkuma

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 01 October 2016, 08:13:52 »
Whereabout's in London would one go to search for vintage keyboards? I was thinking about giving Portabello a visit I know no where else  :(

Offline chyros

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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 02 October 2016, 00:03:20 »
Whereabout's in London would one go to search for vintage keyboards? I was thinking about giving Portabello a visit I know no where else  :(
Just visit some recycling centres, I'm sure there must be tons around London :) .
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Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
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Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 13:56:44 »
Wingpad kindly sent me some blue Alps switches. I tried swapping out the slider, spring, and click leaf from a couple of the Matias Click switches in a KBP V60MTS-C with the corresponding parts from the blue Alps switches. The result is something that sounds and feels more like a blue Alps than a Matias Click switch. The transplantation also greatly attenuates the noise you get from lightly brushing the keycaps with your fingertips. Thus, the transplant reduces the rattle of a V60MTS-C board.

I am not sure if this mod would be worth using up 61 genuine blue Alps switches to do, but for those who prefer not to desolder and resolder switches, this would be a relatively easy and potentially worthwhile mod for a V60.

Perhaps something almost as good could be achieved by using parts from a somewhat more common Alps switch. Orange Alps perhaps? With or without click-modding the tactile leaves?

EDIT: I tried the transplant with orange Alps. I discovered that the orange slider and return spring work in a Matias Click housing, but the orange tactile leaf does not fit inside a Matias Click housing. I tried clipping the top tabs on the orange tactile leaf (click mod) -- this enabled the leaf to slide into the Matias Click housing almost all the way, but there was still some overhang, so I abandoned this attempt. There is some improvement in the Matias Click switch from transplanting only the slider and return spring from an orange switch, but not as much as from transplanting the slider, return spring, and click leaf from a blue switch.

After clipping all 4 tabs from the orange tactile leaf, I was able to slide the leaf all the way into the Matias housing. With the completely clipped orange tactile leaf, return spring, and slider, the modded Matias switch had an attenuated click and less tactility than it did with the orange slider, return spring, and Matias click leaf.

Next, I put the slider, return spring, and click leaf from a white Alps switch into a Matias Click switch on the V60. There is a slight difference in sound or feel between the Matias/white versus the Matias/blue. Either of these is better than straight Matias or Matias/orange.

My subjective ranking of hybrids in the V60MTS-C:

Matias/Blue ~> Matias/White > Matias/Orange > Matias/OrangeClip > Matias/Orange+Matias Spring ~> Matias

The Matias return spring is longer than the return spring in Blue, Orange, or White Alps switches.

Another discovery: Keycaps from an IBM 5140 have a somewhat loose fit on blue Alps sliders. These caps are fine on Matias Quiet, Matias Click, white Alps, orange Alps, and brown Alps.
« Last Edit: Sun, 23 October 2016, 16:37:55 by Hypersphere »

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Modded Matias switch comparison
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 10 February 2017, 06:19:16 »
Apologies for necroing an already-necroed post but I have an update.
I managed to revive my enthusiasm for my V80-MTS-C by getting some 65cN springs (from Sprit - don't judge me!)

The main thing I didn't like about the feel of the half-damped Matias Click switches was that it felt too "fast" and sort of unbalanced. I don't really know how to describe it. It's like the click and the bottom out clack happen at the same time, and there's virtually no upstroke clack to balance it out, and it just feels weird.

So, the 65cN springs are just a little heavier than the stock Matias Click return springs, and this makes all the difference. It somehow compensates for the weird unbalanced feeling from the lack of upstroke sound. I'm actually really enjoying this keyboard now, and it's still considerably quieter than it was with stock Matias Click switches. I guess it's not quite as nice as the SKCM Whites I tried out at a meetup, but it's still a really fun keyboard, and a big improvment over how it was with the lighter return springs (from the Quiet Click switches)

Now I'm thinking I could actually go a little heavier. Maybe not on the Click switches, but I have a few various other modded Matias on my F-row, all with the 65cN return springs, and the damped-click and damped-linears could definitely do with even a little more resistance.