[IC] The TK78, a custom 78 Key 60% + numpad keyboard

[doodersbrother]

This is an interest check for a 60% form factor keyboard with a numpad built in.

Pictures:






Layout:
Link

To quickly give an overview on the key layout, it's pretty much a 60% with a numpad on the side. Instead of splitting up the 2u "0" key into two 1u keys for arrow keys, we decided to move the arrow keys up one row to make sure it retains a standard bottom row for keyset compatibility.
Print screen, screen lock, delete, etc have been put into the function layer on the numpad. Also, the escape and F keys are combined with the number row. We are working on getting media controls onto it.

Features:

• Portability - By removing the function row and arrow keys the keyboard is able to be much smaller and is very portable as a result.
• Two port USB 2.0 hub - We are using the Texas Instruments TUSB2046 IC to add a USB hub to the keyboard.
• Aluminum Milled Body - The case will be anodized to prevent the aluminum from oxidizing.
• Custom keycaps - I'm working with a keycap manufacturer to add custom printed PBT keycaps to this keyboard. If everything goes as planned, the keycaps will be black text on dark grey similar to the HHKB or Realforce. As it is custom printed, the custom function layer legends will also be side printed.
• Standard Bottom Row
• MiniUSB
• ATMEGA32U4 Micro-controller
• Adjustable white LED back-lighting
• Programmable

The case and PCB designs are very close to completion and the plate is already done. I'm currently talking to various manufacturers to get the best price and samples to review quality. We are currently aiming for a $250 price point due to the quality of the components that go into the board.
Leave any comments or suggestions please. Also, if you can think of a name for this keyboard that would be awesome!
Thanks!

[LeandreN]

This looks awesome. Great detailed post that everyone should take a look at

[simonyunhe]

Love it, very interest! 

[user 18]

Looks neat. Will be keeping an eye on this!

[Cottonsox]

I notice your plate is strict with the entire layout Is there any plans to add additional layout options, or is this governed by your pcb design?

[doodersbrother]

I notice your plate is strict with the entire layout Is there any plans to add additional layout options, or is this governed by your pcb design?

It's limited by the PCB. Maybe in the future there may be ISO support but that's about it.

Love it, very interest! 

Thanks!

Looks neat. Will be keeping an eye on this!

Awesome, it should be ready for the GB stage soon. Just gotta finish my current GB's and get a prototype done.

This looks awesome. Great detailed post that everyone should take a look at

Thanks aha

[VinnyCordeiro]

I'm the PCB designer. It's about 90% complete, I'm working now on the USB hub circuit. In this weekend I'm planning to finish it and then make some modifications to the board. Received some really good ideas.

I'm following the plan given to me of a ANSI layout, but I can easily add ISO support, that's no problem. I also can modify the bottom row to add support to winkeyless layouts. However, all those changes have to be supported by the plate, which isn't my responsibility.

[just66in]

Very interested. Will be keeping an eye on this thread

[cmadrid]

How much harder would it be to have the numpad on the left side?  Am I the only one that thinks the numpad should be on the left side so it doesn't move the mouse out farther?


Even with the numpad on the 'standard' side, it still looks pretty neat tho

[VinnyCordeiro]

How much harder would it be to have the numpad on the left side?  Am I the only one that thinks the numpad should be on the left side so it doesn't move the mouse out farther?


Even with the numpad on the 'standard' side, it still looks pretty neat tho

It can be done, but it also must be supported by the plate.

[cmadrid]

How much harder would it be to have the numpad on the left side?  Am I the only one that thinks the numpad should be on the left side so it doesn't move the mouse out farther?


Even with the numpad on the 'standard' side, it still looks pretty neat tho

It can be done, but it also must be supported by the plate.

I understand, just wondering if anyone else agreed with me

[radio_killah]

Very cool I've seen similar ideas but this seems very well thought out. Is there any possibility of adding extra layout compatibility to the 60% area? Things such as split backspace, split right shift, iso compatibility, and alternative bottom row layouts?

[VinnyCordeiro]

Very cool I've seen similar ideas but this seems very well thought out. Is there any possibility of adding extra layout compatibility to the 60% area? Things such as split backspace, split right shift, iso compatibility, and alternative bottom row layouts?

Possibility? Yes, there is. Are they going to be done? I don't know, I'm just designing the board. If doodersbrother says that it is ok, I'll add support for it.

[nubbinator]

How much harder would it be to have the numpad on the left side?  Am I the only one that thinks the numpad should be on the left side so it doesn't move the mouse out farther?


Even with the numpad on the 'standard' side, it still looks pretty neat tho

It can be done, but it also must be supported by the plate.

I understand, just wondering if anyone else agreed with me

Definitely agree that it would be preferred for someone like me.  Num pad on the right with a 60% layout is self defeating

[greath]

Love the design. Would be even more interested if it supported a 1.75u right shift with a 1u fun key.

Edit: example

[p3rhaps]

Definitely interested in this. My interest would increase ten fold if the numpad was on the left though.

[cmadrid]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/28fb9b9c0ac981ca5388da380143ccc8

Something like this

[LeandreN]

I'm the PCB designer. It's about 90% complete, I'm working now on the USB hub circuit. In this weekend I'm planning to finish it and then make some modifications to the board. Received some really good ideas.

I'm following the plan given to me of a ANSI layout, but I can easily add ISO support, that's no problem. I also can modify the bottom row to add support to winkeyless layouts. However, all those changes have to be supported by the plate, which isn't my responsibility.

Hey Vinny!
I have been talking with Doody a lot about this project and he told me that he got a PCB designer, and now you just confirmed that it is you! That is really cool

Good luck to both of you!

[dante]

How much harder would it be to have the numpad on the left side?  Am I the only one that thinks the numpad should be on the left side so it doesn't move the mouse out farther?


Even with the numpad on the 'standard' side, it still looks pretty neat tho

It can be done, but it also must be supported by the plate.

This is going to sound ridiculous and I'm sure there are a bunch of reasons why it couldn't be done ...

How about having the plate / pcb be 'flippable'.  It could land in the case the same way - you just flip them over and then the numpad will be on the left.

[user 18]

How much harder would it be to have the numpad on the left side?  Am I the only one that thinks the numpad should be on the left side so it doesn't move the mouse out farther?


Even with the numpad on the 'standard' side, it still looks pretty neat tho

It can be done, but it also must be supported by the plate.

This is going to sound ridiculous and I'm sure there are a bunch of reasons why it couldn't be done ...

How about having the plate / pcb be 'flippable'.  It could land in the case the same way - you just flip them over and then the numpad will be on the left.

Standard 60% area isn't flippable that way though

[unoab]

This is going to sound ridiculous and I'm sure there are a bunch of reasons why it couldn't be done ...

How about having the plate / pcb be 'flippable'.  It could land in the case the same way - you just flip them over and then the numpad will be on the left.

The 60% section is not symmetrical, that would be the requirement if you wanted it to be flippable.  If flipped the backspace would be on the left, then caps lock would be 2.25u, enter, now 1.75u, and so on if you get the picture.  Now someone could design symmetric modifiers, but even still, the alphas dont flip either for their staggering.  So unfortunately it would not be a simple thing.

The possible proper way to do it would be to have 2 PCBs, or a scored section on the main variant so you could break it into a 60% and a TK.  Then you would need headers so you could connect the two back together after repositioning them on opposides of each other.  And all the mounting holes would have to be available for both placement options, and you would still need 2 different plates unless you did a 2 part plate too.  But the seam on a 2 part plate would be very visible in the blank space between the halves.

So, possible? Yes.  Practical, not so much.  It all depends on how much work they want to put into making that possible and if it will pay off with a respective increase in orders.

[cmadrid]

This is going to sound ridiculous and I'm sure there are a bunch of reasons why it couldn't be done ...

How about having the plate / pcb be 'flippable'.  It could land in the case the same way - you just flip them over and then the numpad will be on the left.

The 60% section is not symmetrical, that would be the requirement if you wanted it to be flippable.  If flipped the backspace would be on the left, then caps lock would be 2.25u, enter, now 1.75u, and so on if you get the picture.  Now someone could design symmetric modifiers, but even still, the alphas dont flip either for their staggering.  So unfortunately it would not be a simple thing.

The possible proper way to do it would be to have 2 PCBs, or a scored section on the main variant so you could break it into a 60% and a TK.  Then you would need headers so you could connect the two back together after repositioning them on opposides of each other.  And all the mounting holes would have to be available for both placement options, and you would still need 2 different plates unless you did a 2 part plate too.  But the seam on a 2 part plate would be very visible in the blank space between the halves.

So, possible? Yes.  Practical, not so much.  It all depends on how much work they want to put into making that possible and if it will pay off with a respective increase in orders.

I doubt this would be a very viable option.. I personally think the numpad should be on the left, but it isn't my board.. was just wondering if anyone else (yay Nubs!) agreed with me

[LechnerDE]

How much harder would it be to have the numpad on the left side?  Am I the only one that thinks the numpad should be on the left side so it doesn't move the mouse out farther?


Even with the numpad on the 'standard' side, it still looks pretty neat tho

Exactly my thoughts! If this was an option, I'd totally be in.

The current version is nice, but I already have too many similar boards, so I have to pass.

But I will keep an eye on this thread to check if a leftside numpad might be a possibility in the future 

[okwchin]

This is something I have been waiting for.

Ive been using my 60% for a while, and I would love to have a number pad, and arrow keys, but without it being much bigger.

I know everyone uses their boards differently. I'd like to just put this layout out there. fundamental changes are outlined in the bluish and yellowish colours.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/a3f5970aa0dd38aa8c346017564554bf

[sethk_]

1. Do you know of a CNC place to mill these/cut them yet
2. What material will the case be made of
3. What material will the plate be made of
4. How will the plate be attached to the case
5. Do you need a plate or is PCB mount also an option

[VinnyCordeiro]

1. Do you know of a CNC place to mill these/cut them yet
2. What material will the case be made of
3. What material will the plate be made of
4. How will the plate be attached to the case
5. Do you need a plate or is PCB mount also an option

I can answer #5: yes, PCB mount is an option. I always design my boards with holes for PCB switches AND PCB Cherry stabilizers, it won't be different on this one.

[doodersbrother]

1. Do you know of a CNC place to mill these/cut them yet
2. What material will the case be made of
3. What material will the plate be made of
4. How will the plate be attached to the case
5. Do you need a plate or is PCB mount also an option

1. Yes, I do. However, I am looking for places that are cheaper while still maintaining quality.
2. Aluminum. The exact alloy is not decided yet but most likely it'll be 6061.
3. Aluminum, then sandblasted
4. Will mount onto standoffs on the case. All screw points should be hidden underneath keys.
5. Already answered. However, it would look ugly as nothing would be hiding the PCB underneath.

[LeandreN]

, then sandblasted

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[doodersbrother]

UPDATE:

Version with numberpad on left hand side will also be available with all the same features

Custom printed keycaps are no longer looking like an option as they are just so expensive and most of you will put your own caps on them anyways.

[VinnyCordeiro]

UPDATE:

Version with numberpad on left hand side will also be available with all the same features

Custom printed keycaps are no longer looking like an option as they are just so expensive and most of you will put your own caps on them anyways.

But it won't be available at the same time as the version with numpad at the right. Be patient, please.

[cmadrid]

UPDATE:

Version with numberpad on left hand side will also be available with all the same features

Custom printed keycaps are no longer looking like an option as they are just so expensive and most of you will put your own caps on them anyways.

But it won't be available at the same time as the version with numpad at the right. Be patient, please.

Seems reasonable

[cryptowillem]

I like the concept. Sometimes I really need that numpad!

I, too, would be interested in options for split backspace and right shift, but if those were not possible, I'd still be behind this project. It's something different, and I like it!

[radio_killah]

This looks very promising. It still needs a few more things before it really catches my interest. Looks like it is being refined into a great project though.

[doodersbrother]

This looks very promising. It still needs a few more things before it really catches my interest. Looks like it is being refined into a great project though.

What do you think needs to be different?

[radio_killah]

This looks very promising. It still needs a few more things before it really catches my interest. Looks like it is being refined into a great project though.

What do you think needs to be different?

It's been said before so I'm sure you are aware but better layout compatibility such as split backspace, split right shift, and various bottom row layouts. As well as various layouts of the numpad.

What price are you hoping to hit for an unassembled kit?

[doodersbrother]

This looks very promising. It still needs a few more things before it really catches my interest. Looks like it is being refined into a great project though.

What do you think needs to be different?

It's been said before so I'm sure you are aware but better layout compatibility such as split backspace, split right shift, and various bottom row layouts. As well as various layouts of the numpad.

What price are you hoping to hit for an unassembled kit?

$250 is the unassembled price unfortunately as sourcing parts is looking to be much higher than expected. Assembled would probably be around $280. Remember these prices may and probably will change by the GB.

[azhdar]

Imo you should allow more layouts.
Strict minimum nowadays is :
- ISO enter,
- split backspace
- split Rshift (1.75u+1u)
- ISO L****
- 1.5|1|1.5|7|1.5|1|1.5 bottom row.

Just my 2 cents.

[Vaun]

Imo you should allow more layouts.
Strict minimum nowadays is :
- ISO enter,
- split backspace
- split Rshift (1.75u+1u)
- ISO L****
- 1.5|1|1.5|7|1.5|1|1.5 bottom row.

Just my 2 cents.

Agree over 9000%, shouldn't take that much work for it to be compatible with those standard layouts. I would also like to se the 0 on the numpad to be compatible with splitting to allow for a lot more interesting layouts, like the Lightsaver.

EDIT: Super interested in this btw, was looking for somthing like this before but production costs for making just one was abit to steep.

[VinnyCordeiro]

"Ask and thou shalt receive."

We heard you suggestions!

• There will be a left-side numpad version of the board, I only need to finish the right-side version before starting working on it
• ISO support, split backspace and right shift (HHKB-style) are already on the board, just needed to squeeze it a little bit )
• When I arrive home today I will start to add more bottom row options

Tomorrow I will not work on my daily job (Corpus Christi holiday), so I will have time to finish this already delayed first version of the board. Then I will start to chase for errors and make some optimizations.

[radio_killah]

"Ask and thou shalt receive."

We heard you suggestions!

• There will be a left-side numpad version of the board, I only need to finish the right-side version before starting working on it
• ISO support, split backspace and right shift (HHKB-style) are already on the board, just needed to squeeze it a little bit )
• When I arrive home today I will start to add more bottom row options

Tomorrow I will not work on my daily job (Corpus Christi holiday), so I will have time to finish this already delayed first version of the board. Then I will start to chase for errors and make some optimizations.

Awesome sounds like a big step in a very good direction. 

[greath]

"Ask and thou shalt receive."

We heard you suggestions!

• There will be a left-side numpad version of the board, I only need to finish the right-side version before starting working on it
• ISO support, split backspace and right shift (HHKB-style) are already on the board, just needed to squeeze it a little bit )
• When I arrive home today I will start to add more bottom row options

Tomorrow I will not work on my daily job (Corpus Christi holiday), so I will have time to finish this already delayed first version of the board. Then I will start to chase for errors and make some optimizations.

Just a thought:

If you just made 2 PCBs (one numpad and one 60%) and gave the PCBs a connector of some sort you could make it so you only have to make one possibly?

As an extension... if you made 2x plates (one for numpad and one for 60%) and designed the case right might it not be possible to fit all the needs in one design? Personally I would love this option because I would put the numpad on the left and if I couldn't get used to it I would move it back the the right side.

[VinnyCordeiro]

"Ask and thou shalt receive."

We heard you suggestions!

• There will be a left-side numpad version of the board, I only need to finish the right-side version before starting working on it
• ISO support, split backspace and right shift (HHKB-style) are already on the board, just needed to squeeze it a little bit )
• When I arrive home today I will start to add more bottom row options

Tomorrow I will not work on my daily job (Corpus Christi holiday), so I will have time to finish this already delayed first version of the board. Then I will start to chase for errors and make some optimizations.

Just a thought:

If you just made 2 PCBs (one numpad and one 60%) and gave the PCBs a connector of some sort you could make it so you only have to make one possibly?

As an extension... if you made 2x plates (one for numpad and one for 60%) and designed the case right might it not be possible to fit all the needs in one design? Personally I would love this option because I would put the numpad on the left and if I couldn't get used to it I would move it back the the right side.

It is a possibility. Problem is: I can't find a connector with a profile low enough for it. I know they exist, but I can't find them on Mouser, Digikey or Newark. Any suggestions on these are welcome, as they would simplify the design.

EDIT: By "low enough", I mean a connector with less than 5mm of height when soldered on the board.

[greath]

"Ask and thou shalt receive."

We heard you suggestions!

• There will be a left-side numpad version of the board, I only need to finish the right-side version before starting working on it
• ISO support, split backspace and right shift (HHKB-style) are already on the board, just needed to squeeze it a little bit )
• When I arrive home today I will start to add more bottom row options

Tomorrow I will not work on my daily job (Corpus Christi holiday), so I will have time to finish this already delayed first version of the board. Then I will start to chase for errors and make some optimizations.

Just a thought:

If you just made 2 PCBs (one numpad and one 60%) and gave the PCBs a connector of some sort you could make it so you only have to make one possibly?

As an extension... if you made 2x plates (one for numpad and one for 60%) and designed the case right might it not be possible to fit all the needs in one design? Personally I would love this option because I would put the numpad on the left and if I couldn't get used to it I would move it back the the right side.

It is a possibility. Problem is: I can't find a connector with a profile low enough for it. I know they exist, but I can't find them on Mouser, Digikey or Newark. Any suggestions on these are welcome, as they would simplify the design.

EDIT: By "low enough", I mean a connector with less than 5mm of height when soldered on the board.

I'll take a look and see if I can find anything.

Another possibility would just be just soldering wire no? I know it wouldn't be as finished looking but the thickness would be right.

[VinnyCordeiro]

Another possibility would just be just soldering wire no? I know it wouldn't be as finished looking but the thickness would be right.

I know. I want to give a professional look to the board, but if it isn't possible (or possible but too expensive), I'll probably do that.

[greath]

I don't know a *ton* about this stuff... but would something like this work? http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/84533-6/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7i6cT6ogu4yu2u1yJsBr1EpyOvc4Q97A%3d

I believe a 6 wire ribbon cable slides into that. Not sure if you'd need more.

[VinnyCordeiro]

I don't know a *ton* about this stuff... but would something like this work? http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/84533-6/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7i6cT6ogu4yu2u1yJsBr1EpyOvc4Q97A%3d

I believe a 6 wire ribbon cable slides into that. Not sure if you'd need more.

I'll take a look for alternatives, as I need 9 wires for the keypad (4 columns, 5 rows).

[greath]

The 9 wire version: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/84953-9/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7i6cT6ogu4yu2u1yJsBr1mH42S4VyUY0%3d

Again, not sure if this would work but here's a shot. Best of luck on the design!

[Seranite]

This is a good idea, I think I would be into it. I often have the issue of my full length board being too long and sometimes I'll bump into it with my mouse. However, I still need my number pad because I use it all the time. So removing the arrow key section (which I hardly use) might give me enough space to move my mouse freely without being too close to the keyboard.

...which I'm sure was the thought process behind this whole design.

[ChillyVanilly]

There will be a left-side numpad version of the board, I only need to finish the right-side version before starting working on it

This is my dream board, thank you.

[doodersbrother]

There will be a left-side numpad version of the board, I only need to finish the right-side version before starting working on it

This is my dream board, thank you.

Should be substantially more affordable than most customs too. It will be a beautiful board.