Author Topic: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit (Closed for Orders, 97% shipped. SEE LAST POSTS)  (Read 383760 times)

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Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1300 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 19:49:39 »
Similarly, can I pay a separate shipping fee to have my PCB and hardware shipped separately? Or at least use my Teensy money, if that's not going towards paint...
can do. pm me your order number to remind me.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Greeeg

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1301 on: Sat, 06 June 2015, 21:14:21 »
I'd wish I'd known about this before ordering an infiity 60% from MD just last week.

Can I tag along with CeeDog? Get all the machainical stuff shipped now, and pay extra shipping for the PCB when that's ready.
Assuming the plates have been painted in my order colours. PM Sent.

So with the change of PCB's this means the board will no longer be Infinty compatible? Is that design locked into massdrop, and they won't let us use it?

Offline fatchoi

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1302 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 10:36:35 »
Sorry to hear that... Mind I ask if the notched plate has even been made yet please? Would it be better if you could just cancel the notch process and issue a refund? That could help to control the cost.

I'm willing to donate a part of that refund afterward.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1303 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 11:05:28 »
i've found and committed to a new supply of titanium and have found a new less expensive cutter to manufacture and cut some of the losses from the notched plates. because i've committed to the new material, can't refund the notched plates. i am absolutely willing to donate notched plate payments though.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline fatchoi

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1304 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 11:12:34 »
i've found and committed to a new supply of titanium and have found a new less expensive cutter to manufacture and cut some of the losses from the notched plates. because i've committed to the new material, can't refund the notched plates. i am absolutely willing to donate notched plate payments though.

Thanks for the reply. I want to keep things unchanged and get the notched plate. I will make some donation after I receive the whole kit. Please remind me again later. :)

Offline njbair

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1305 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 15:17:26 »
Those plates look awesome. And despite the bad news about Massdrop (which I don't think surprised anyone), it is super encouraging to hear that JD and BunnyLake are getting directly involved.

mkawa, knowing that all this has been going on in the background and that you've opted to take the misplaced blame rather than slinging mud, that shows a lot of integrity. Good for you.

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Offline Spopepro

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1306 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 16:02:55 »
Now being able to piece together what actually happened here, I'd really like to make sure I am covering the *actual* cost of my kit. Mkawa, if you know, or can estimate how much the difference amounts to, I'd really appreciate the ability to pay the difference so you're not out of pocket for me. Thanks.

Offline fatchoi

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1307 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 19:31:52 »
You mentioned that the PCB cost is 3x higher than original, mind quoting the old price and new price please? Seeing this as an upgrade that Teensy is no longer required, I'm happy to pay at least the Teensy price and would like to have those PCB costs to reference. (although I requested a refund on Teensy, I think I should return the refund to you in such situations)

Offline inanis

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1308 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 20:43:08 »
Wow. What a horrible situation. It certainly cements my opinion of Massdrop.  :mad:
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Offline SL89

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1309 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 21:20:32 »
if i sound bitter about massdrop, it's because i am; i have expressed this privately, diplomatically for months now, but massdrop.com does not deserve a single dollar from the keyboard community or commercial use of any of the community development that it has taken advantage of since its inception.


FINAL NOTE: i have never said this explicitly (and no one has ever offered, despite me stating several times that there is no money for donation to the Walter family) BUT if anyone is willing to NOT TAKE DELIVERY of their product, I will donate any and all kit payments directly to the Walter family. Again, I still cannot give refunds, but if you opt to NOT RECEIVE YOUR PRODUCT, I WILL DONATE YOUR PAYMENT TO THE SMALLFRY'S FAMILY.

MD has always rubbed me the wrong way... this certainly helps seal that deal.

Mkawa, is there a way to just directly donate to the project / cause?

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1310 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 21:52:49 »
the old pcb was 5$ at qty of 100. i held off on that board on promise of a pcb based on the newer controller (and watched as the schedule slipped, and slipped and then slipped some more...). the projected cost of the infinity pcb at qty of 500+ was 20-25$/ea assembled. we're aiming for < 20$ assembled on the new carpe pcb, but the min qty for this to happen is 200 boards. not clear yet how to deal with the extra qty, but the pricing is straightforward. anyway, these details are for us to figure out. i would be overjoyed if people helped with funding; i'll work out a means of doing so.

on that note, how would people feel about a krytox variety pack?

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1311 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 22:03:30 »
oh, and if you'd just like to donate to the cause, you can use the donate button on the site.

https://geekhack.org/donate.html

it usually generates a few dollars here and there; has helped a bit to defray cost of the geekhack github account, helped support engineering for the artisans i work with, etc. if you mention the smallfry kit in the comment field on your donation, it will either help defray the budget overages for the kit, or be donated to the Walter family. that is, there is a chunk of my income already budgeted towards completing the smallfry kit and a donation to the Walter family. donations given via the button will join that fund.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Melvang

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1312 on: Sun, 07 June 2015, 22:16:29 »
If it helps, I would like to forgo a PCB personally, I just want the plates and other associated hardware. 
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Offline r3nfr0

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1313 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 07:12:24 »
Is a pcb source able independently?  If so I could just take the plates and other stuff.

Offline Ceedog

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[GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1314 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 07:20:11 »
Theoretically. I believe ctrlalt has PCBs available for a JD40. That would still need a Teensy though.

GODLIKE SmallFry in progress.

Offline r3nfr0

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1315 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 07:21:04 »
CtrlAlt website says they are down for website rebuild

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1316 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 07:49:50 »
CtrlAlt website says they are down for website rebuild

just sit tight, these new pcbs arent gonna be some indefinite wait like with massdrop, we accomplished more in a week than they had in months, its all designed and ready, we aer gonna quickly tes thte protos, then they will get ordered, the turnaround time will be very low
I'M IN THE PROCESS OF MOVING RIGHT NOW, WILL BE BACK AROUND SOON

Offline r3nfr0

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1317 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 07:50:20 »
Ok that's good news. I will sit tight then. 

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1318 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 08:31:25 »
Sneak peek of the new PCB render for you guys.



This is being sent to manufacture for prototypes now. As soon as we are sure we have a 100% working PCB, orders will be placed for the production run (about 4-6 weeks probably).


Huge thanks to Wilba for the PCB redesign, and to BunnyLake and mkawa for their continued support.
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Offline GSimon

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1319 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 12:32:39 »
Sneak peek of the new PCB render for you guys.

Show Image


This is being sent to manufacture for prototypes now. As soon as we are sure we have a 100% working PCB, orders will be placed for the production run (about 4-6 weeks probably).


Huge thanks to Wilba for the PCB redesign, and to BunnyLake and mkawa for their continued support.

That looks sweet.

Offline Vibex

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1320 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 14:57:14 »
Sneak peek of the new PCB render for you guys.

Show Image


This is being sent to manufacture for prototypes now. As soon as we are sure we have a 100% working PCB, orders will be placed for the production run (about 4-6 weeks probably).


Huge thanks to Wilba for the PCB redesign, and to BunnyLake and mkawa for their continued support.
Very nice. :thumb:

Offline r3nfr0

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1321 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 15:29:08 »
Is this going to have all the diodes and stuff on it?  That seems to be the trend lately.

Offline njbair

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1322 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 17:28:06 »
Is this going to have all the diodes and stuff on it?  That seems to be the trend lately.
Since they are SMD components, I would assume so.

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1323 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 18:26:45 »
Is this going to have all the diodes and stuff on it?  That seems to be the trend lately.
Since they are SMD components, I would assume so.

Yes, the plan is to have everything but switches installed at the fab. It is a few dollars extra per PCB, but worth it in the end, in my opinion.
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Offline njbair

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1324 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 19:17:17 »


It is a few dollars extra per PCB, but worth it in the end, in my opinion.

As someone without proper SMD soldering gear, I would have to agree.

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Offline r3nfr0

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1325 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 19:18:36 »
Having built an ergodox, I agree. It is a pain. Maybe a good skill to learn?!?

Offline Greeeg

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1326 on: Mon, 08 June 2015, 23:59:54 »


It is a few dollars extra per PCB, but worth it in the end, in my opinion.

As someone without proper SMD soldering gear, I would have to agree.

As someone WITH proper soldering equipment, and a day job soldering components. I would also agree.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1327 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:19:09 »
going to pack up the partials tomorrow and get them to the PO when I get back into town on wed. (am heading out of town for a wedding on saturday night..)

it sounds like the new titanium supply is ready to ship. i need to coordinate with the new cutter and double check/potentially update the drawings i have (courtesy JD); hopefully i'll have some free time to do so on monday.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1328 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 09:24:33 »
Thanks for the update.

Offline lekashman

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1329 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 14:26:02 »
I’d like to take this opportunity to step in and clear up some confusion that is going on regarding this project.

First things first, I am no longer an employee at Massdrop so I can’t speak for what they actually are going to execute on going forward, but I’d like to let everyone know exactly what I committed to so that some of the Massdrop hate here is alleviated.

I offered to assist mkawa with the SmallFry Keyboard Kit because the project was suffering from enormous delays and I had been working on putting together a 40% keyboard project for quite a while.

The process of implementing someone else’s keyboard design is a complex task because it is of utmost importance to get their full permission and blessing before proceeding, so I reached out to jdcarpe and received his go-ahead to use his design.

 I then approached Input Club, who designed the Infinity 60%, and discussed their availability to work on a project like this, and they said that they were interested and would add it to their pipeline of tasks. I communicated this information to mkawa as an intermediary and set up a brief introduction between him and Input Club.

I then proceeded to do a financial analysis with mkawa into what had happened to the SmallFry Keyboard Kit so far, tracking where all of the money had gone and what it was spent on. Mkawa told me that the PCB’s hadn’t been ordered yet, and I told him that we could leverage Massdrop’s buying power to bundle his order for PCB’s into the larger Massdrop order for Infinity 40% PCB’s. If we did this, it would make the cost of the PCB quite a bit lower, and everyone who had participated in the SmallFry kit would be receiving a significantly upgraded piece of technology.

Let’s take this opportunity to clarify something.

Mkawa already collected your money for a PCB when everyone first joined this group buy. Massdrop has never collected any money from anyone in this thread and therefore is not able to “screw anyone over” or shortchange anyone. Literally all Massdrop can do at this point in time is help lower costs and provide upgraded technology. In units of 1000, the Infinity 40% assembled will be quite affordable, and be the obvious choice when compared to the price for 100 blank JD40s + Teensy 2.0s.

Back to our narrative, at this point in time while mkawa and I were figuring out these aspects of the situation, mkawa had agreed to send me all of the money left over from the initial Group Buy that was allocated toward PCB manufacture, which at the time was communicated to be “a few thousand dollars” (1, possibly 2). This is probably where some of the confusion has arrived on the topic of Massdrop “providing the PCBs” has come from. When organizing a joint project where people from around the world are contributing different parts, it is typical to have clear descriptions of who is actually going to be creating, or providing each aspect of the overall project.

I agreed that if he sent me all of the parts he had already purchased, we would order the PCB’s and fulfill the order from our warehouse which would dramatically lower the cost incurred to ship all of these out. Mkawa had agreed to completely cover the cost of outbound shipping from our warehouse, but that Massdrop would use their UPS account to get a better rate.

The cost savings to mkawa and the entire group for doing all of this work were going to be extremely significant and do remember that I had absolutely no obligation to do any of this work. All of this was simply because I thought it was the right thing to do and I saw that you had all been waiting for quite a while for your keyboards and I wanted to offer my help. There are a lot of accusations and attacks going on in this thread and I really consider that hardly reasonable considering that this isn’t Massdrop’s mess in the slightest. Massdrop is simply going to do it’s due diligence on this keyboard and is going to release an Infinity 40% regardless and if everyone in this thread wants to be a part of that, they are generously offering to allow you to participate and instead of getting an obsolete keyboard delivered over a year late, you have the opportunity to type on a state of the art, fully programmable version designed by Input Club.

Don’t turn this into something it’s not and make Massdrop into some kind of villain for going significantly out of their way to give you cheaper and cooler stuff. Doing so would set an incredibly bad precedent for ever helping with this sort of situation ever again.

If anyone has any questions or wants me to clarify anything in more detail, I am happy to do so.

Offline byker

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1330 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 14:44:13 »
This is all very well and good, but you didn't exactly explain what happened after you left? It sounds like mass drop went back on their deal, which although they have the rights to do, isn't exactly the right thing to do. And how exactly are they "helping with this situation" now that they have backed out?

Offline lekashman

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1331 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 15:26:59 »
In all honesty, Massdrop never backed out of anything. They still plan to honor the commitments outlined here in my post, but their involvement is entirely dictated by mkawa.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1332 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 15:58:53 »
At this point, Massdrop's involvement with this project is moot. I recently revoked any and all permission for Massdrop and/or Input Club to proceed with production of my 40% keyboard design. I trust that Massdrop would not use my intellectual property without permission.
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Offline fatchoi

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1333 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 20:19:48 »
Sounds like MD wants to steal the design so offering sort of help. And later "clarify" to break the deal. Now that design is stolen, no effort worked out by MD. Shameful.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1334 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 20:43:34 »
Sounds like MD wants to steal the design so offering sort of help. And later "clarify" to break the deal. Now that design is stolen, no effort worked out by MD. Shameful.
It's not really like that, but I did decide to go in a different direction for the project.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


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Offline Greeeg

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1335 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 20:55:45 »
Jdcarpe, I notice in the render that you have broken out Power, PF[6,7], PB[1,2,3] and PD3. I am assuming it's an ATmega from those port names...

Can some of these pins be used for UART or SPI? To facilitate a Bluetooth add on? ☺

Offline Wilba

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1336 on: Fri, 12 June 2015, 21:40:49 »
It's an ATMega32U4, and those pins are broken out especially for that possibility (I2C and TX).
You can either cut a track near the USB socket or desolder the fuse to disconnect USB 5V from Vcc, for doing battery power.
However, I didn't address such issues as the ATMega using a 16Mhz crystal with 3.3V supply (technically overclocking), sleep modes for power saving, a voltage regulator for battery power, power management to prevent lipo cells depleting below 2.5V, etc. I just basically made it hackable.  ;D

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1337 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 00:28:12 »
at this point i wonder if it might be a good idea to put pads and space down for an SMD bluetooth assembly. it's too late for this revision of the 40%, and may not fit anyway, but for larger boards it might make quite a bit of sense, and the BTLE assembly footprints are dropping in size every few months. i expect them to start using stacked dies to fit into something like 0505 footprints any day now..

for battery power, i would actually advocate for two leads and no charging provisions -- it's a lot of extra parts for something that most won't use. instead, the case designers should make it possible to mount a simple 2x AAA leaded housing. again, with the BTLE socs power draws hitting near zero quiescent, fancy lipo cells are unnecessary. frankly, it's a keyboard, not an android phone.

finally, i would prefer that further discussion about massdrop be taken elsewhere. massdrop is no longer involved in this gb, fullstop.

i have said my piece on that situation, and i don't have anything more to say, nor will i retract anything that i have said. i do not wish to discuss it any further.

frankly, i have had more bile and feces slung at me because of geekhack in the last few years than i ever imagined possible. yet, unlike a particular co-founder of massdrop, i've never called anyone who has said mean things about me at their work in the middle of a work day to harangue them about the mean things they wrote about me on the internet. geekhack is not my job. i am not going to drop everything while i am working at my actual job to discuss how offended you are that i made harsh statements about your company. for me, that is the end of this discussion. thanks all for your understanding.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline fatchoi

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1338 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 00:58:59 »
I just returned the Teensy refund $19 through the donation link on top of this forum.
I have made a small remark, so that you know the money was for this Smallfry project.

Keep up the work please. Thanks for your efforts.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1339 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 13:06:01 »
just got final qty and costing on the new titanium sheets, which are also.. ready to ship!  :thumb:

grabbing quotes from shops next week.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline ImDaBaron

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1340 on: Sat, 13 June 2015, 16:38:03 »
Thanks for the updates mkawa :)

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1341 on: Mon, 15 June 2015, 08:30:38 »
Thanks for the recent updates, mkawa.   :thumb:   Great to see this moving along again.  (and thanks to CtrlAlt and others for helping out)

@mkawa, I'd like to confirm my plate colors of purple and Robin's Egg Blue (I wasn't sure if that would fit my needs before, but I think it will be fine).  Additionally, I'm still interested in the notched plates and would like to cover any additional costs incurred to make that happen.  When this completes, could you let me know the *actual* cost of my kit (+ original donation amount) so I can cover that accordingly?

Offline cgbuen

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1342 on: Thu, 18 June 2015, 00:46:07 »
My order is still for sale. PM me if interested.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1343 on: Thu, 18 June 2015, 06:25:26 »


going to pack up the partials tomorrow and get them to the PO when I get back into town on wed.

Just checking to see if this happened? Thanks.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1344 on: Thu, 18 June 2015, 11:31:57 »
Some stuff blew up at work over the weekend. Update by eow

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1345 on: Sat, 20 June 2015, 07:31:15 »
well that was an exciting week. 1. cross-country redeyes suck. 2. proud owner of another 50lbs of titanium. 3. my bank is taking the fraudulently cashed check that was intended for rainbow very seriously. 4. you can rent wings and balconies at sf city hall for much cheaper than other popular wedding venues. highly recommended! 5. i should actually be able to pack up the partial kits i owe people today. 6. there was a manufacturing issue with the first set of pcb prototypes. wilba is on the case.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1346 on: Sat, 20 June 2015, 08:55:54 »
re: costing. the plates alone ended up costing somewhere in the realm of 120 per kit. (well, a bit more than that due to shipping costs, other misc ancillaries)

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline njbair

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1347 on: Sun, 21 June 2015, 19:21:10 »
re: costing. the plates alone ended up costing somewhere in the realm of 120 per kit. (well, a bit more than that due to shipping costs, other misc ancillaries)

$120 for two plates? Wow, that's surprising.

Out of curiosity, just because I'm a former tool & die maker and manufacturing processes interest me, can you ballpark the cost breakdown for materials/fabrication/finishing/shipping?

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Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1348 on: Mon, 22 June 2015, 04:23:49 »
30/25/15/10 appx per plate. bottom plates cost a bit less to cut, but my wj cutter's pricing came out much higher than we had predicted (it took way more machine time than we had guesstimated based on test cuts), and there was a ton of back-and-forth shipping: florida -> california -> massachusetts -> iowa -> massachusetts.

it was a learning experience, but the upside is that i know how to cut costs in future.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [GB] The Smallfry Keyboard Kit
« Reply #1349 on: Mon, 22 June 2015, 06:50:41 »
woah, i just had a new fastener idea based on melvang's titanium wallet photo. about to order then guinea pig on you guys.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.