Author Topic: Hello (Read 7861 times)

1839cc · « **on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:04:22 »

This is my first post here.

I stumbled onto this forum about a month ago. Then one week ago I found a used Dell AT101W at a store for a good price. The last non-rubber dome keyboard I had was on a Commodore 128. It's been a while.

I've attached some pictures of my recent purchase.

watduzhkstand4 · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:08:06 »

Welcome to geekhack!

That board was the same exact board I started my collection with and I still have it! It really is a nice board though.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:10:03 »

Quote from: 1839cc;113877

This is my first post here.

I stumbled onto this forum about a month ago. Then one week ago I found a used Dell AT101W at a store for a good price. The last non-rubber dome keyboard I had was on a Commodore 128. It's been a while.

I've attached some pictures of my recent purchase.

how do you like it?

kyamei · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:11:57 »

Can't go wrong with a $4.50 mechanical board.

shortround · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:13:36 »

Hello 1839cc, welcome. I'm pretty new myself, I was happy to find an internet forum in which people can spell and put together sentences.

watduzhkstand4 · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:20:40 »

Quote from: kyamei;113882

Can't go wrong with a $4.50 mechanical board.

Yea and I wonder which store he found that in. I wish I can just walk into a store and buy a mechanical keyboard lol

1839cc · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:27:24 »

Wow, quick response.

I like the feel. I'd like to find something maybe a bit heavier or more tactile next. But this is quite nice.

EDIT: I found it at a goodwill.

justin · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 03:24:32 »

Those Alps switches are among the more heavy and tactile switches out there, I'm not sure where you should go from there. The general consensus is that the buckling spring boards, like the IBM Model M and the Unicomp boards have a heavier feel… I have 2 of the Ms, but haven't really tried any other mech. boards to compare. The black cherries are heavy, but not tactile, the other boards are all lighter, from what I've heard.

xyzzy · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 03:57:27 »

Quote from: 1839cc;113885

I'd like to find something maybe a bit heavier or more tactile next.

As justin suggested, go for a Model M. It's heavier and definitely more clicky. Unicomps are said to be a tiny bit lighter than regular IBM/Lexmark Ms.

ch_123 · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 04:35:23 »

Quote from: justin;113895

Those Alps switches are among the more heavy and tactile switches out there, I'm not sure where you should go from there.

Alps are remarkably susceptible to becoming worn out, I once found an AEK II and thought it was a rubber dome board at first. Im betting that if you found an old AT101W at a charity shop, it would suffer the same effect.

quadibloc · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 08:16:14 »

I know that I used to find Model Ms frequently at local Goodwills, but not any more. I suspect most of the donations came from businesses retiring old PS/2 systems. Here, I'm learning what else to look for.

1839cc · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 09:17:49 »

Quote from: ch_123;113899

Alps are remarkably susceptible to becoming worn out, I once found an AEK II and thought it was a rubber dome board at first. Im betting that if you found an old AT101W at a charity shop, it would suffer the same effect.

This makes sense to me. It's much better than my rubber dome keyboard and I do like the feel, however I did notice some inconsistency among the switches. Some feel more used than others.

I would really like to find some cherry clears. Those look the best to me on paper.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 02 September 2009, 09:20:07 »

No I think what is happening is that goodwill and other thrift stores are starting to realize what they have and we are seeing this kind of stuff on ebay now instead of at the local store. Here in the Austin area Goodwill has all computer related stuff routed to a specialized goodwill location that pretty much only deals with computer related equipment. That way they can increase how much they get for this stuff.

1839cc · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 09:21:38 »

<<>>
I'll revive this thread rather than start a new one.

I used my Dell again after starting to get used to brown Cherries and it definitely is stiffer than I remembered. Now it feels the way others here have described it. I guess my perception was skewed by years of rubber dome use.

itlnstln · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 09:54:33 »

Quote from: 1839cc;138318

<<>>
I'll revive this thread rather than start a new one.

I used my Dell again after starting to get used to brown Cherries and it definitely is stiffer than I remembered. Now it feels the way others here have described it. I guess my perception was skewed by years of rubber dome use.

This. I went from Model Ms/Rubber Domes to Alps, and at the time, I thought they were very light. Now that I have been using Cherry browns for some time, going back to Alps is like torture.

1839cc · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 10:04:37 »

I wouldn't say torture, exactly. I like a fairly heavy spring, but the black ALPS force curve feels backward.

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 10:11:32 »

Welcome,

From my limited experience, I think, like others have said, you need to go with buckling spring if you want heavier switches.

I should stop by the Goodwill store tonight on my way home. I never thought about them for keyboards.

ch_123 · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 10:27:49 »

Buckling Springs are nice and firm, but yet you can still type quite quickly on one without wearing out your hands... They have a nice force curve that eases you in.

itlnstln · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 10:32:32 »

Quote from: ch_123;138345

Buckling Springs... have a nice force curve that eases you in.

This makes BS much easier to type on for this reason. ALPS are kinda jarring after using switches with nice force curves.

RamaBot · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 10:36:07 »

I had been using an AT102W for a while and thought it was quite nice. But slowly for some reason that I can't fathom the thing started to annoy me. So I plugged my Model M back in and felt right at home again.
I think I may just like the way you can just bash away at a Model M without thinking about it. Feels like you're just getting the work done.

itlnstln · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 10:41:58 »

Quote from: RamaBot;138351

I had been using an AT102W for a while and thought it was quite nice. But slowly for some reason that I can't fathom the thing started to annoy me. So I plugged my Model M back in and felt right at home again.
I think I may just like the way you can just bash away at a Model M without thinking about it. Feels like you're just getting the work done.

I think it might be the force curve. With ALPS, all of the force is applied on the initial keypress, and then it gives in quickly (similar to most rubber domes). IMO, it doesn't feel very elegant, and it gets tiring. Buckling Springs and most Cherry switches have a more gradual curve where the force needed to activate the switch builds up along the keypress before reaching a max at the tactile point/click. To me, this makes the keypress much smoother and less fatiguing.

1839cc · « **Reply #21 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 11:01:22 »

If the resistance increased quickly after the tactile point I would like it a lot better. As it is it just gives up and falls hard to the bottom. Maybe a mod with a short stiff spring just to cushion the landing.

ch_123 · « **Reply #22 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 11:05:19 »

If you can find dampened Alps sliders (either from an AEKII or SGI AT101) that deals with the bottoming out problem. They still feel too stiff though. I hear the Blue Alps are quite different though, and I have one on the way to me from Sixty to check em out.

itlnstln · « **Reply #23 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 11:05:58 »

Quote from: 1839cc;138360

If the resistance increased quickly after the tactile point I would like it a lot better. As it is it just gives up and falls hard to the bottom. Maybe a mod with a short stiff spring just to cushion the landing.

You can remove the tactile leaf in the ALPS, and the action should improve (according to ripster). Ripster said this makes ALPS (black, specifically, but whites, too) feel similar to Cherry browns. It might be worth a try. There are tutorials on how to take apart ALPS switches in the Mods forum.

1839cc · « **Reply #24 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 13:22:22 »

What won't work?

bigpook · « **Reply #25 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 13:41:05 »

Quote from: RamaBot;138351

I had been using an AT102W for a while and thought it was quite nice. But slowly for some reason that I can't fathom the thing started to annoy me. So I plugged my Model M back in and felt right at home again.
I think I may just like the way you can just bash away at a Model M without thinking about it. Feels like you're just getting the work done.

I have experienced the same, and not just with the black alps. Every key switch I have tried I have liked, but the novelty wears off and something about them start to irritate. All is better when I go back to the model m.
I have been through this cycle more then once and it always feels right when I am on the BS keys. I am curious as to how long you stay on the BS keys before you cycle to something else.
I feel like a bumble bee sometimes, each flower is better then the last : )

timw4mail · « **Reply #26 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 13:41:43 »

Quote from: bigpook;138382

I have experienced the same, and not just with the black alps. Every key switch I have tried I have liked, but the novelty wears off and something about them start to irritate. All is better when I go back to the model m.
I have been through this cycle more then once and it always feels right when I am on the BS keys. I am curious as to how long you stay on the BS keys before you cycle to something else.
I feel like a bumble bee sometimes, each flower is better then the last : )

The grass is greener on the other side?

ricercar · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 13:44:00 »

Quote from: itlnstln;138328

Now that I have been using Cherry browns for some time, going back to Alps is like torture.

Exactly! I find that I have to be away from Cherry Browns a while in order to like my White Alps Northgate . With a 3-month brown hiatus, the Alps were feeling like my Cherry Blues, mostly comfortable.

Yet resuming a brown keyboard as my daily driver, I like the blues still, but the Alps is back on the storage shelf.

bigpook · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 13:52:30 »

Quote from: timw4mail;138383

The grass is greener on the other side?

From a distance the grass is ALWAYS greener. Its just that when you do get over to the other side you realize its not as green as you thought. You look over your shoulder and wow, from a distance the grass is greener on the other side.
repeat, ad nauseam

1839cc · « **Reply #29 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 13:55:03 »

Quote from: ripster;138385

Topre springs to dampen ALPs. Well, at least not in a cost effective way. Just bought a SGI Granite to harvest the parts.

You guys treat Keyboards like Tiger Woods treats his women!!

Oh okay. I wasn't thinking of any specific springs yet. I thought maybe you meant the whole principle was off.

Haven't seen any SGI keyboards. Are they common/inexpensive?

msiegel · « **Reply #30 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 13:55:50 »

well then, i might have to get a good rubber dome board... so i can appreciate my mechanical ones more

RamaBot · « **Reply #31 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 14:32:15 »

Quote from: bigpook;138382

I have experienced the same, and not just with the black alps. Every key switch I have tried I have liked, but the novelty wears off and something about them start to irritate. All is better when I go back to the model m.
I have been through this cycle more then once and it always feels right when I am on the BS keys. I am curious as to how long you stay on the BS keys before you cycle to something else.
I feel like a bumble bee sometimes, each flower is better then the last : )

I tend to spend a couple of months on the M and then I start thinking about other keyboards. I try one for a while and then go back to the M. Though (and I hate to say it here ) I really love my Cherry 6105 rubber dome. It also feels like you can just get some serious typing done on it.

The thing is that the AT102W is the only keyboard I have that actually annoys me. Strange.

keyb_gr · « **Reply #32 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 15:04:56 »

Quote from: RamaBot;138398

The thing is that the AT102W is the only keyboard I have that actually annoys me. Strange.

Mine is right there in Cherry G81 territory for me, which is pretty far towards the bottom of the pile (though G81s work a little better with the right technique and are entirely different-feeling anyway).

I still bottom out on blues but it is a far softer landing. That board (old G80-3000) currently is my daily driver at home, with clears (bottom-out-proof) at work. Typically I can't really decide between the blues board and my Model M, lately it's the blues more often.

ch_123 · « **Reply #33 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 15:18:06 »

Quote from: ripster;138385

Topre springs to dampen ALPs. Well, at least not in a cost effective way. Just bought a SGI Granite to harvest the parts.

Is it one of the PS/2 ones or not?

ch_123 · « **Reply #34 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 15:29:52 »

I think that's a pretty common with the AT101s (from all manufacturers). The SGI I'm getting from Sixty has a yellowed bar, and I'm pretty sure Lam's one had the same issue as well. Not something that really bothers me though.

At least it's not made by DEC... Any of their stuff that I have seen in person goes a worrying shade of mustard...

ch_123 · « **Reply #35 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 15:34:27 »

If you found an original Dell AT101 (as opposed to AT101W) you could probably swap. Problem is that finding one of these in good condition would be probably be more difficult than finding an SGI in non-yellowed condition.

bigpook · « **Reply #36 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 15:43:11 »

Quote from: RamaBot;138398

I tend to spend a couple of months on the M and then I start thinking about other keyboards. I try one for a while and then go back to the M. Though (and I hate to say it here ) I really love my Cherry 6105 rubber dome. It also feels like you can just get some serious typing done on it.

The thing is that the AT102W is the only keyboard I have that actually annoys me. Strange.

From reading this thread it looks like I am the only one that actually likes the black alps. For me its second to the BS keyboards I have. I need to say that the black alps are in my filco tenkeyless, don't really know if it makes a difference compared to the AT101.

ch_123 · « **Reply #37 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 15:47:40 »

The keycaps and overall construction of the Dell AT101W have a detrimental effect on the Black Alps alright. Even if this wasn't the case, I wouldn't really like them because of their force curve.

bigpook · « **Reply #38 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 15:49:39 »

I have a NIB AT101 in the closet. I need to take it out and try it out. I don't get hung up on the force curve, graphs, etc. Its all about the feel.
FWIW, I have looked at the graphs but have a hard time grokking the. I guess I am not graphy?

ch_123 · « **Reply #39 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 15:52:15 »

Well, when I say 'Force curve', I use it as an abbreviated version of my usual Black Alps rant, which I have already given within the past 24 hours, therefore filling my quota =P

EDIT: It's one of the first posts in the latest "ergo keyboard" thread.

ch_123 · « **Reply #40 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 16:02:50 »

It's a case of YMMV I guess, but I'm way faster on the Cherry blues compared with the Black Alps.

ricercar · « **Reply #41 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 16:05:59 »

Quote

with less typos.

fewer typos, less error.

I better stop posting for a bit. I'm trolling now.

ocdonkb · « **Reply #42 on:** Thu, 03 December 2009, 16:08:51 »

Anybody remember that Seinfeld ep where Jerry's girlfriend would change from being attractive to ugly/scary, depending on lighting conditions.

That's almost how I feel about the AT101w's black alps.

At times, I swear it's worse than your average $5 rubber dome... and other times, I'm like, "you know, this board is really good... it's like a more-tactile version of the cherry brown! I love it!"

lowpoly · « **Reply #43 on:** Fri, 04 December 2009, 12:48:29 »

Quote from: ch_123;138421

If you found an original Dell AT101 (as opposed to AT101W) you could probably swap. Problem is that finding one of these in good condition would be probably be more difficult than finding an SGI in non-yellowed condition.

IIRC the color is different.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #44 on:** Fri, 04 December 2009, 15:54:53 »

Didn't the original AT101's have pink ALPS keyswitches too?

ch_123 · « **Reply #45 on:** Fri, 04 December 2009, 16:57:07 »

Yeah, but they're pretty much the same thing as the Black switches AFAIK

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Author Topic: Hello (Read 7861 times)