Author Topic: Recommendations for tenkeyless with Cherry Brown switches? (Read 6097 times)

gorky · « **on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 13:38:30 »

Hello,

greetings from mechkeyboard newbie from Poland

After years of using Logitech Internet Keyboard I've decided it's time to move away from it. I was almost certain that Logi Illuminated will be optimal, but then found this forum and after few days of reading my priorites have changed.

So now I'm thinking about getting a mechanical keyboard, but I think I need some advice.

I don't play games, only type. I don't need numpad.
BUT I sometimes work in the evenings and my family is quite nervous about clicky sounds - so some level of quietness is really needed...

Will a keyboard with brown switches be much louder than this old rubber dome keyboard I use now?

And, probably the most important part - could you please recommend me some tenkeyless keyboards witch Cherry Brown switches?
I've considered Leopold FC200RT, Filco Majestouch2, and a Noppoo Choc Mini but I've probably mislooked something...
I can pay up to 150$, the less the better (but quality is very important, so I'd prefer well made 150$ keyb to poor made 100$ one).

Thanks in advance

mmmty · « **Reply #1 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 13:46:00 »

Welcome to Geekhack!! Huh, I beat that welcome robot named noodles.

I'm in the same boat. I'm also looking for a tenkeyless brown. Currenty my choices are Filco (most expensive), Leopold (squeaky keys?), and Ducky (currently not available in US) - in that order.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #2 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 13:58:16 »

i have a leopold and it is nice. i would recommend it to others and i have not had any issues with squeaking keys. i decided on the leopold in the end based on price/quality. in my opinion it seems just as good in quality as the filco for less money. theres also the plu-87, which seems to be the bargain one. i haven't tried either of the plu-87 or ducky so i can't comment on their quality.

mmmty · « **Reply #3 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 15:04:43 »

Adding PLU ML-87 to the list.
POM laser engraving Cap, Multimedia function keys, ugly logo.

daerid · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 15:25:02 »

I purchased a Filco Majestouch 2 w/ Browns, and couldn't be happier, honestly. I love the damn thing... can't stop typing on it. Build quality is amazing, too.

I'm curious as to how the Leos stack up. When I get some throwaway cash, I'll probably pick up a Leo blue just to compare.

noodles256 · « **Reply #5 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 15:30:34 »

wlcm 2 gh

mmmty · « **Reply #6 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 16:54:17 »

I've made my decision. I'm gonna go with a Filco... or a Leopold :smile:

gorky · « **Reply #7 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 17:11:34 »

In terms of look the Noppoo seems best so far, but still would love to ready any recommendations

BaconKnight · « **Reply #8 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 18:58:29 »

In terms of key layout, I do like the Noppoo the best, but my Leopold, and a Filco will have higher construction quality standards. Noppoos aren't bad but their keyboard is basically a thin plastic casing around a pcb board and keys. There's a decent amount of flex to the board. Not to be all negative, the plus side is that it's very space saving, more so than even a regular tenkeyless.

However the Leopold I have just feels much higher quality. The casing feels legit. No flex at all. Feels heavier and more durable. The stand up feet are thick and solid, whereas the Noppoo is thin and loosey goosey. Even little things too like the dual angle rubber feet on the bottom just make the keyboard feel very high quality. On the downside, I noticed the keycaps on the Leopold wear out/dirty pretty quickly, although there's some people who would argue that the Noppoo keys start out dirty. :laugh:

If it's your first keyboard, I'd recommend the Leopold or Filco first. Noppoo is a good 2ndary keyboard to try something different.

P.S. If you want to see what I mean by "get dirty" look at the first couple images of my Leopold. I obviously replaced a lot of the keys, but the black ones are original Leopold keys. Compare the left control and alt keys to the right ones which I barely use. The right side is obviously much whiter. Maybe some denture tablet cleaning might return em back to original whiteness, haven't tried it yet. Not to single out the Leopold, my Noppoo is starting to do the same thing though to a lesser degree. Funnily enough it's most obvious on S, D keys because I play a lot of late night Starcraft with this board (can you guess what race I play).

mmmty · « **Reply #9 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 19:22:59 »

Let's look at the candidates:

Filco

Leopold

Ducky

PLU

Noppoo

KBC Poker

noodles256 · « **Reply #10 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 20:48:51 »

dont forget kbc poker

baller1308 · « **Reply #11 on:** Mon, 16 May 2011, 20:49:09 »

Maybe having all the keys faded (Noppoo) would be better than having a few faded

Tony · « **Reply #12 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 02:33:59 »

I am using a Filco brown and I recommend one for you. Of course it is more expensive, but I find that I like it more than other keyboards I got my hand into.

One warning that my Filco keycaps are quite shiny after several months of use and I saw several complaints from other geekhackers too. Perhaps because my hands are quite oily and I live in tropical South East Asia region.

But I don't care since I touch type and do not look at the keyboard. And you can easily replace it, for a price however.

gorky · « **Reply #13 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 05:01:44 »

Thank you all, especially BaconKnight for such detailed answer. And mmmty - many thanks for the pictures!
The problem is that I can't afford two keyboards* (see bottom). So I have to buy one, the best possible in my price range.

Is the build quality of Leopold really so much better than the Noppoo? I have to say that I love the look of the latter and could sacrifice a little of the quality - but if the difference is really noticeable then I'd probably stick with Leopold/Filco...
And second question - do the thicker keys in Noppoo really make it more quiet?

Thanks for suggesting the Poker - it looks wonderful, hovewer I'm a devoted vim user, and typing will be the only use of my new keyboard, so I'm afraid it will be not so good to have no direct access to ESC key. Or am I wrong?

*The average salary in my country is about 800$/month, so buying a 200$ keyboard is quite an extravagance, and it'll be difficult to justify buying two of them

BaconKnight · « **Reply #14 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 05:40:56 »

Put a gun to my head and force me to pick one and I'll pick the Leopold. I think part of it is the fact that for the MX brown variant, they come out to be around the same price and I can say with confidence I'd feel much more comfortable spending $120-130ish (with shipping) on the Leopold than I would on a Noppoo. Now if the Noppoo was cheaper to get, like it's supposed to be, as it is in it's native China/Hong Kong, then the Noppoo is a good deal worth looking. But looks like there's more of an "internet mark up" with those boards so price comes out similar to a Leopold from EK.

It is tough though. Like I've mention around the forum, I personally love my Noppoo board, especially the way the keycaps feel. But for around the same price, I rather get higher overall build quality over inventive key placement and better feeling keys, especially since you could end up replacing the keycaps eventually if you want later on.

The reason I got mine is because I wanted an MX black board and they were running much cheaper than the browns, around $89. That's not me saying get an MX black Noppoo though. It's clear you want browns and I would recommend you get browns if this is gonna be your first board. MX blacks are an acquired taste.

What I'd suggest is if you really want the Noppoo, and I don't blame you if you do, get a Leopold/Filco like I recommend first as your main board. Then maybe half a year from now, or a year from now, just save up a little money each month and get another MX switch like Blue or Black and make it a Noppoo. If you're like most of us on this forum, chances are you'll get your first board, love it, but get a hunger for another type of board. I mean look at my sig! To think I only started with one not that long ago! :smile:

gorky · « **Reply #15 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 06:03:40 »

Since I live in EU I'd probably be ordering directly from China, because the shipping costs from US are similar to those from China/HK - and because of this I still cannot decide (Noppoo costs about 70$ there). But your last advice is quite appealing to me, especially that I once used IBM M keyboard and miss that clicky sound

I'd probably be ordering around next week, so if anyone has something to add - please write

mmmty · « **Reply #16 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 11:31:48 »

I've made my decision and I'm going with Filco. I have 3 Filco boards and I like all of them. I haven't tried Leopold. It maybe as good as Filco but I don't think it will be better (don't care about the extra NKRO). I do like the extra features Leopold offers: cheaper, blank keys, detachable cord. That's what made me hesitate. If this is your 1st mechanical keyboard, I think you can't go wrong with Filco.

BTW, I just got my KBC Poker red. My first impression when I picked it up was "plastic toy". It's very light due to lack of metal plate. The keys are not as smooth or solid as Filco red. It feels more like cloud of fake boobs. The board flexes a little when you twist it. But I got to like it after about an hour of typing on it. It's an okay board but definitely not something you would buy for your 1st mechanical keyboard. You can turn top left key into ESC key with the FN key. Four keys at bottom right can also be turn into arrow keys with FN.

kackburt · « **Reply #17 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 11:47:01 »

Love my noppoo

Good keyboard for that price.

Mazora · « **Reply #18 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 11:48:36 »

I hate my noppoo

I love my filco

gorky · « **Reply #19 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 12:08:19 »

Quote from: mmmty

It's an okay board but definitely not something you would buy for your 1st mechanical keyboard.

You've resolved my recent dillema, I started seriously considering Poker

So now I think I have to decide between Noppoo and Leopold/Filco (probably Leopold, because it has more affordable price).
Noppoo is cheaper than Leopold and more appealing to me, Leopold is sturdier and recommended by BeaconKnight and mmmty.

I'm in doubt :/

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd be very thankful. Maybe there are some serious vim users here?

Quote from: Mazora;347542

I hate my noppoo
I love my filco

Could you elaborate further?

pm_ · « **Reply #20 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 12:09:26 »

OP, what's the price difference for you between the Leopold and Filco? The Leo in the states runs around $121 after shipping, and the Filco's Majestouch 2's are $139 shipped. I'm not a fan of the stabilizers on the Leo, as my spacebar sounds different if you depress it right of center (as opposed to left of center), and I've seen a few people complain about squeaky keys. In short, for ~$20 difference, I'd go with the Filco over the Leo. I'm thinking shipping to Poland would narrow the price gap...

I love the layout of the Choc Mini, but don't feel it's worth 40-50%+ markup to get one shipped to the US, seeing as they run around $70 in China, but would cost $95 - $110 to get one here. I really want that layout though, but will probably wait till there is a higher quality version available in the US, possibly from another manufacturer. I figure it's more likely for Leo to make one at some point than Filco. Oh, and I also have a pair of Poker's on order, too, so no rush.

alaricljs · « **Reply #21 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 12:18:12 »

Quote from: pm_;347552

I love the layout of the Choc Mini, but don't feel it's worth 40-50%+ markup to get one shipped to the US, seeing as they run around $70 in China, but would cost $95 - $110 to get one here. I really want that layout though, but will probably wait till there is a higher quality version available in the US, possibly from another manufacturer. I figure it's more likely for Leo to make one at some point than Filco. Oh, and I also have a pair of Poker's on order, too, so no rush.

Interesting, it was primarily the layout that made me get rid of the Noppoo. Second was the impossible to read keycaps.

gorky · « **Reply #22 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 12:41:58 »

Quote from: pm_;347552

OP, what's the price difference for you between the Leopold and Filco?

My rough estimates are:
Filco: ~185$ (shipped from US or UK) or ~170$ (shipped from China)
Leopold: ~150$ (shipped from US)
Noppoo: ~105$ (shipped from China)

And >150$ is quite a big sum of money to me (multiply the prices by 3 or 4 to get an estimate of how they appear here).
Maybe someone I know would be going to US in the following months and could buy me a Filco for $139, but it's not certain. So the prices I've written above are the most certain ones.

I'm not in a hurry, but after looking at those all mechkeyboards I recognized want one ASAP

Albeit I can wait, of course.

chongyixiong · « **Reply #23 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 13:13:00 »

Noppoo and Filco has those springy stabilisers which I love.

Buy a Filco! They have Ninjas!

pm_ · « **Reply #24 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 16:48:13 »

Quote from: alaricljs;347560

Interesting, it was primarily the layout that made me get rid of the Noppoo. Second was the impossible to read keycaps.

Hmm. You essentially have all the same keys, just arranged a bit differently. I actually find it more convenient having the PageUp/PageDown, arrow keys, etc., closer to the main cluster, and saving a couple inches of space is priceless when you play FPS and have a low sensitivity. I have a German Alps keyboard with the same layout, it's just that I don't like those Alps switches and it seems like it's ~3KRO. To each there own though! I hope I like the poker enough to forget about the Choc Mini though.

Also, I touch type pretty well, so I only need to see a key every once in a while, usually when aligning my hands for odd passwords.

RiGS · « **Reply #25 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 16:53:04 »

I would choose the Noppoo over the Leopold anytime.

pm_ · « **Reply #26 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 16:53:17 »

Quote from: gorky;347576

My rough estimates are:
Filco: ~185$ (shipped from US or UK) or ~170$ (shipped from China)
Leopold: ~150$ (shipped from US)
Noppoo: ~105$ (shipped from China)

Eek! I hope you make up for the price differences with 6 weeks of vacation. Based on that particular price spread, it would put the Noppoo back in play.

BTW, regarding the KBC Poker, you can change the Tilde to be a dedicated ESC key by using FN+Q. To Quote Sixty's review:
"The combiniation FN+Q activates the second lock mode: “ESC lock”. This mode simply lets you swap ESC with tilde. When the lock is enabled, the tilde key will act as ESC by default, when disabled it will act as tilde by default. Whichever mode you prefer, the other option will always remain available through the FN key."

Maybe that changes your opinion of the Poker?

BaconKnight · « **Reply #27 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 17:17:23 »

Well looking at the pricing now, the Noppoo might come back into play now. The next cheapest option for you seems to be nearly a 50% increase in price.

gorky · « **Reply #28 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 17:25:22 »

Quote from: pm_;347675

Maybe that changes your opinion of the Poker?

Yes, I've found that option about switching tilde and ESC and started considering Poker as a very serious alternative, but given mmmty's opinion about overall quality of this keyboard I'd probably leave off thinking about it.

And yes - after doing the calculations I'm leaning towards Noppoo, but I have to be sure about the price - now I'm waiting for response from an agent...

david · « **Reply #29 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 17:28:31 »

I could let you know in a few days how I like my Leopold, just ordered it a few hours ago! The strangest thing was that I found out it ships from my hometown... no one recognizes Diamond Bar, CA - but I guess people who know EK do haha.

gorky · « **Reply #30 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 17:31:05 »

Quote from: david;347688

I could let you know in a few days how I like my Leopold, just ordered it a few hours ago! The strangest thing was that I found out it ships from my hometown... no one recognizes Diamond Bar, CA - but I guess people who know EK do haha.

Will be great, thanks

noodles256 · « **Reply #31 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 17:39:09 »

Quote from: david;347688

I could let you know in a few days how I like my Leopold, just ordered it a few hours ago! The strangest thing was that I found out it ships from my hometown... no one recognizes Diamond Bar, CA - but I guess people who know EK do haha.

wlcm 2 gh

and congrats on your purchase

david · « **Reply #32 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 17:47:52 »

Thanks! Glad to be here... been lurking for a while now but finally joined

BaconKnight · « **Reply #33 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 17:56:46 »

I wonder if you could ask if you could just pick it up and save on shipping fees.

mmmty · « **Reply #34 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 20:49:04 »

I got the Poker yesterday so today I took it for a spin at work. It was supposed to be a week at work with HHKB. So I took some pictures of the two to compare since the Poker is supposed to be HHKB killer. I was surprised that the Poker is actually a little smaller. You can see red PCB underneath since there is no metal plate. Quick review of KBC Poker in my previous post.

I guess I should have put them back to back but you can see that HHKB is taller

HHKB is about 1/4 inch (~10mm) taller

Poker and my ducky mouse

Quack quack, got any grapes?

This is how I keep my keyboards clean and germs free. Well, 99.99% of them.

noodles256 · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 20:54:28 »

nice poker!

got any glue?

mmmty · « **Reply #36 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 21:19:56 »

It is 62% alcohol in a 40 oz size. Vitamin E helps it go down smooth.

alaricljs · « **Reply #37 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 21:24:04 »

Quote from: pm_;347670

Hmm. You essentially have all the same keys, just arranged a bit differently. I actually find it more convenient having the PageUp/PageDown, arrow keys, etc., closer to the main cluster, and saving a couple inches of space is priceless when you play FPS and have a low sensitivity. I have a German Alps keyboard with the same layout, it's just that I don't like those Alps switches and it seems like it's ~3KRO. To each there own though! I hope I like the poker enough to forget about the Choc Mini though.

Also, I touch type pretty well, so I only need to see a key every once in a while, usually when aligning my hands for odd passwords.

Technically I don't touch type, although I also don't look and use all my fingers. The issue for me was the non-clustered F keys and the smaller size of the bottom row modifiers. I actually orient my hands by feel not by looking, so I chose not to haul a keyboard with me to every system I work on to reprogram my muscle memory.

Other than that yes, the Noppoo is quite nice. I really liked the feel and sound of the keycaps (brown switches) and the Filcos that I have now are looking forward to PBT replacements. (yes I know noppoo is POM)

chongyixiong · « **Reply #38 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 22:21:13 »

Quote from: mmmty;347765

I got the Poker yesterday ...

So how do you find the Poker and the HHKB?
I want a detailed review and finding!!
Did you find the shorcut and Fn layer good enough - coming from a HHKB? Is it intuitive? etc etc

Thanks!

PS: Nice IPS 4:3s. They're almost extinct. Are those 2007FPs?
PS2: That duck mouse is even cuter. Where did you get it? Grapes?

mmmty · « **Reply #39 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 23:05:32 »

There already is a review for KBC Poker here. Besides having about the same size, the Poker is not in the same class as HHKB. It's not even in the same class as a Filco as far as quality. I do like how they have Fn keys set up. You can turn tilde into ESC key. The bottom right 4 buttons can be used as arrow keys which can be handy sometimes. There are dip switches on the back of the case for you to switch Win&Alt keys, Win&Fn keys, or CapsLock&CTRL keys. So, it does have some good features. I'm not saying it's a bad board just not as good the other ones that I have. Definitely not recommend as a 1st mech. keyboard.

Those are company issued 17" Dells. They're probably 1707FPs. I got the ducky mouse from somebody who went to a flea market

noodles256 · « **Reply #40 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 23:10:51 »

Quote from: mmmty;347833

There already is a review for KBC Poker here. Besides having about the same size, the Poker is not in the same class as HHKB. It's not even in the same class as a Filco as far as quality. I do like how they have Fn keys set up. You can turn tilde into ESC key. The bottom right 4 buttons can be used as arrow keys which can be handy sometimes. There are dip switches on the back of the case for you to switch Win&Alt keys, Win&Fn keys, or CapsLock&CTRL keys. So, it does have some good features. I'm not saying it's a bad board just not as good the other ones that I have. Definitely not recommend as a 1st mech. keyboard.

Those are company issued 17" Dells. They're probably 1707FPs. I got the ducky mouse from somebody who went to a flea market

if you dont think the quality is as good as filco then i must be in a **** storm because i dont think the filco quality is very good

mmmty · « **Reply #41 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 23:14:13 »

But you seem to be the only one :tongue1:

noodles256 · « **Reply #42 on:** Tue, 17 May 2011, 23:15:31 »

true that

daerid · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 18 May 2011, 14:09:31 »

What would you think actually IS good quality?

noodles256 · « **Reply #44 on:** Wed, 18 May 2011, 14:18:39 »

topre

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Author Topic: Recommendations for tenkeyless with Cherry Brown switches? (Read 6097 times)