Difference with Model M Keyboards

[Idiot_Hacker]

I am new to this board and am not new to model M keyboards.  I have been acquiring slowly a decent collection of model m keyboards.  I try to get models from all the different plt no. and acquire the oldest ones as possible.  I do have some '92 models as well.  Now that I have enough of them, I can definitely say that there are noticeable differences from different plants as well as from later models.  The early models as a whole tend to have a stiffer feeling to me.  The 301 definitely are stiffer then the 401 but I don't have the later model 301 to compare them to.  My daily use keyboard is a 401 model m from Mar '88 and the keys definitely stiffer then a '92 model I have.  Also the few model m I have from plt no F2 feel better constructed and heavier them from other plt no.  Does anyone else have the same feeling?

Easy observations:  My '88 401 has the metal support bars under the numpad + and enter key like the 301s.  On clickykeyboards.com they mention only the 301s have this.

[Idiot_Hacker]

This is something clickykeyboards once replied to someone with the same question.

Personally, I don't believe in it. Maybe up to the 131. People -want- the old IBM stuff to be better than the new Lexmark stuff. Like that old IBM engineer, who does not work for Lexmark but manages some fud anyway. I think there must have been some ***** fighting in those days, and that on the other side Lexmark took pride in doing it just as good as IBM (there is evidence of that as well, such as those late 131's). Even if their quality control wasn't as good, that would mean in 99.9% of the cases the boards were equal. The funny thing of it all is that 1) The Model M was a cost-saving operation (among others) on the Model F and 2) The 401 was a cost-saving operation on the 131.

That is very true.  I got an PC/AT Model F from ebay.  That keyboard was super dirty.  I opened it up and cleaned each piece.  The top and bottom plate of the internals are made of metal.  Each key was an individual plastic piece.  The internal electronics was a circuit board with metal contacts.  On the Model M however, it is the same 2 plastic sheets with metallic leads as the cheapo membrane keyboards out today.  It was a real pain to reassemble the PC/AT keyboard.  I would however say the Model M has a better plastic housing.  As for strict quality control, I don't think that was as true as that guy states.  Comparing the numerous Model Ms I have, the metal for the springs vary.  Some have a shine to them almost like chrome while others are duller with a white tint to them.  Some of them have white plastic top plate while most others have the more common black plate.  Also the key caps look better on the 301s and earlier 401s then later 401s while still under IBM.

[Mercen_505]

Personally, I don't believe in it. Maybe up to the 131. People -want- the old IBM stuff to be better than the new Lexmark stuff.

I'd rather have the newer stuff be of higher quality, since it's significantly easier to acquire. Unfortunately, in my case it hasn't worked out that way thus far.

[ch_123]

Was the Greenock plant operated by Lexmark or IBM after 1992?

And as for the Model M being a cost cutter - I remember reading that the original PC Model F was sold for $300-350 with the PC. And that's in 1981 dollars, if you take inflation into account, it's about $600-700 in today's money, all for a keyboard whose layout looks like it was designed by an eight year old.

[MANISH7]

Questions for the OP

1. Do you know where in the US plant F2 was located?

2. I have a 1391401 white label from August 27 1991 from Plant F2. Are you saying that these keyboards are in lower quality than the same exact keyboard made by the same plant 3 years earlier? Of course, I'm sure the little differences are subjective but curious anyway.

3. I have a 1391401 white label from Oct 26 1989. Plant F4. do you have any keyboards from F4?

I sold off my uncle's 1988 1391401 Sep 1 1988 because he stored it in the garage for 4 years and there was some dirt on the keys. I'm paranoid about cleanliness. That did have the metal stabilizers under the keys that you mention. I've never opened my 1991 F2 so I can't compare the difference in quality. I only keep these keyboards for nostalgia.

[Idiot_Hacker]

Questions for the OP

1. Do you know where in the US plant F2 was located?

2. I have a 1391401 white label from August 27 1991 from Plant F2. Are you saying that these keyboards are in lower quality than the same exact keyboard made by the same plant 3 years earlier? Of course, I'm sure the little differences are subjective but curious anyway.

3. I have a 1391401 white label from Oct 26 1989. Plant F4. do you have any keyboards from F4?

I was just about to post more info on my knowledge of Model M but you beat me too it..... =)  

Here is what I know and what I don't know.  I found this forum for that reason.  I was looking to see if anyone knew that plt no. stood for.  Alas I am as clueless as anyone here.  The majority of Model Ms I own are from plant F2.  From by reverse fact finding, any keyboards with the labels that have the fonts all the same size, ie 1988 and older are built better.  They are built with a heavier steel plate and have the support wires under the numpad + key and numpad enter key.  These labels look like the writing were type-written where as the labels printed with what appears to be a dot matrix printer I find are lighter and the build quality not as superior(These tend to be 89 and till 93).  So my assumption is that the early Model M 401 have the same build quality as the 301s and roughly the same quality.  For anyone that want to acquire  a good model M, I would truly recommend getting 88 and older.  But that doesn't mean that other IBM built Model M are bad.  For typing, all IBM built Model Ms are good.  For the collector and enthusiast, 88 and older and from plt no F2.  


However, the Model F PC/AT is my fav.  Heavier then the Model M, the top plate and bottom are made of metal and it uses capacitive technology not like the Model with a membrane.  It is held together by bending of metal hooks not by melting plastic studs.  The plastic casing is of lower quality then the Model M through....

[huha]

And as for the Model M being a cost cutter - I remember reading that the original PC Model F was sold for $300-350 with the PC. And that's in 1981 dollars, if you take inflation into account, it's about $600-700 in today's money, all for a keyboard whose layout looks like it was designed by an eight year old.

Attention, attention: Computers were extremely expensive back then, so spending that much on a keyboard is not significantly different from buying a Filco or Realforce these days in terms of fraction of buying cost used for input devices.

-huha

[itlnstln]

Attention, attention: Computers were extremely expensive back then, so spending that much on a keyboard is not significantly different from buying a Filco or Realforce these days in terms of fraction of buying cost used for input devices.
 
-huha

This is exactly right.  Even the Model M was still quite expensive.
 
Actually, these days the Realforce or Filco might even be a higher percentage than the F was in its time.

[ch_123]

Attention, attention: Computers were extremely expensive back then, so spending that much on a keyboard is not significantly different from buying a Filco or Realforce these days in terms of fraction of buying cost used for input devices.

I'm aware of that, but the original IBM PCs were (as far as I can tell) designed as low end machines for reasonably basic tasks. To extend your analogy, it would be like if Dell sold the Realforce with all their low end Inspiron computers... a nice touch, but an unnecessary one from a cost perspective.

Then again, as I clack away on my Model F on a daily basis, I'm glad that IBM sold expensive, over-engineered (compared with their competitors at least) keyboards with all their computers back then

[ch_123]

Why do the Brits call their towns things like Greenock? [/URL]

It's in Scotland, so I assume it's an anglicized version of some Scottish Gaelic name.

EDIT: Yep, according to wiki, it's from the Gaelic "Grainaig", which would be pronounced something like "Gray-un-ogg" or "Gree-un-ogg".

[MANISH7]

any keyboards with the labels that have the fonts all the same size, ie 1988 and older are built better.  They are built with a heavier steel plate and have the support wires under the numpad + key and numpad enter key.  These labels look like the writing were type-written where as the labels printed with what appears to be a dot matrix printer I find are lighter and the build quality not as superior(These tend to be 89 and till 93).

my 10/26/1989 has a label with same size, type writer font. this one does not have support wires under the numpad enter key. so if the label does not have type writer font, it is guaranteed to not be of the same quality as 1988 keyboards. however, if it does have a type writer font or is white label, that alone is no guarantee and it probably should be 1988 or earlier, as you said. my uncle had a 09/01/1988 and that did have support wires under the numpad enter. i sold that one off because i'm a clean freak and my uncle had stored his in the garage.

having said all this, i will say something i always believed but now especially believe due to sour grapes (lol - i thought my 1989 was going to be just as good as the 1988 since both are white label): having a slightly heavier metal plate or wires don't make that much of a difference to me in terms of durability or functionality. however, i do like my keyboards to be elite so i accept that the 1988s are best.

at the same time, i only want something that is "mine". i was old enough to remember 1990, 1991 so a keyboard from 1989 belongs to me (because what you'd see in the classrooms in 1991 was manufactured in 10/26/1989). however, the 301s from 1986 are at a time when i was 1 yr old and don't remember at all. not exactly the most logical reasoning but whatever makes me happy. i keep these M's purely for the nostalgia. they may feel nice but i don't type on them because the heavy key switches are not good for the wrists.

[Idiot_Hacker]

my 10/26/1989 has a label with same size, type writer font. this one does not have support wires under the numpad enter key. so if the label does not have type writer font, it is guaranteed to not be of the same quality as 1988 keyboards. however, if it does have a type writer font or is white label, that alone is no guarantee and it probably should be 1988 or earlier, as you said. my uncle had a 09/01/1988 and that did have support wires under the numpad enter. i sold that one off because i'm a clean freak and my uncle had stored his in the garage.

having said all this, i will say something i always believed but now especially believe due to sour grapes (lol - i thought my 1989 was going to be just as good as the 1988 since both are white label): having a slightly heavier metal plate or wires don't make that much of a difference to me in terms of durability or functionality. however, i do like my keyboards to be elite so i accept that the 1988s are best.

at the same time, i only want something that is "mine". i was old enough to remember 1990, 1991 so a keyboard from 1989 belongs to me (because what you'd see in the classrooms in 1991 was manufactured in 10/26/1989). however, the 301s from 1986 are at a time when i was 1 yr old and don't remember at all. not exactly the most logical reasoning but whatever makes me happy. i keep these M's purely for the nostalgia. they may feel nice but i don't type on them because the heavy key switches are not good for the wrists.

Hmm, interesting.  I want my keyboards to be elite as well.  Something happened after 88 that IBM decided to "lower" the quality of the Model Ms.  I want to know the exact date though when the switchover was made.  So the label is not the definite proof of "higher" quality Model M.  Can you tell me what the plt no is?  I really want to figure out what the hell the plt no. is.  The only guarantee right now is a keyboard  88 or older.

[Idiot_Hacker]

Try looking here.

You probably have a keyboard made in Lexington, KY.  I have a keyboard made in Lexington, KY.

Your keyboard is no more elite than the Kajillion other keyboards made in Lexington, KY.

Except my IBM Model M Mini.  She's special.

I read that thread through and through.   There is still no definitive answer.   I I want a 100% definitive answer!!!! =)  On another note, I just got my hands on 401 with a dot matrix type but all fonts are small and of the same size and it has the those wire support under the the numpad + and enter key.  The plot thickens.....

[Hak Foo]

I always saw "PLT XX" on the label and assumed it was "Plate number XX" -- they presumably had a set of X pairs of moulds.

This could be correlated by comparing plate numbers with the revisions of case designs.

[MANISH7]

Hmm, interesting.  I want my keyboards to be elite as well.  Something happened after 88 that IBM decided to "lower" the quality of the Model Ms.  I want to know the exact date though when the switchover was made.  So the label is not the definite proof of "higher" quality Model M.  Can you tell me what the plt no is?  I really want to figure out what the hell the plt no. is.  The only guarantee right now is a keyboard  88 or older.

My keyboard from 10/26/1989 has plant F4, type writer same size font, white label, no supporting wire under the number pad enter key.

On one hand, just because a keyboard has a registration card to Lexington does not mean that the keyboard was manufactured in Lexington. Lexington can just be the main office that also handles administrative stuff. That makes sense. It's OK for several plants to manufacture keyboards but would you really want several offices to handle the same kind of paperwork? Causes confusion. I don't know.

I think the best bet is to wait for IBM to have better times and when the archive department is back on its feet. Then ask the question again. I'm sure they can answer this but they just don't have the manpower right now. Their archives section contains some more sophisticated trivia related to other, less famous products. If they can answer that then they can answer this to. I guess in these economic times IBM has given history a back seat as that isn't what makes profit at this time.

[MANISH7]

Idiot hacker: if I look at the back of my Model M and below the label, I can see round circles. Maybe 8 of them. So the circles that each house a spring, actually make an imprint on the back of the keyboard plastic frame / mould. This is not easy to see but it isn't hard to see either. Do you also see this? Do you notice any difference between the early models vs later models? My 1989 F4 has it, I thought my 1991 F2 did not but it does too. Just curious. Now I'm on the look out for a <1989 keyboard and then I'll be satiated with my Model M collection.