Logitech K840 - a non-ugly Romer G board

[SpAmRaY]

Recently, What are they now?

Pretty sure the romer g caps are just painted or some coating over translucent abs. The questionable quality of the keycaps is keeping me from even trying the board.

Found these on the interwebz



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[quasistellar]

Romer-G keycaps are god damned terrible, to be sure.

[typo]

That is a shame. Scratch this off. The Ornata sucks too but it feels really good. So I might use it once in a long while. I am guessing Romer-G is not up to the quality of Cherry anyways. Maybe Kaith. The 413 keycap I saw was completely white inside though.

[quasistellar]

The switches themselves are really nice, in my opinion.  The new Kailh Copper switches are somewhat similar in feel (I have some in a board now to compare).

I can't really comment on how undamped Romer-G feels, though.  I heard the newer boards don't have the up and downstroke damping?  Honestly I liked it but to each their own.

[typo]

There can be something that kill's something otherwise good as being viable. In this case the poor key caps and lack of aftermarket sets. For a keyboard this cheap I am liking the Ornata. Go feel it. The box has the arrow keys exposed. I guess they felt pretty confident then. Who knows if anyone likes it better. Let's be honest though we are talking about very low end keyboards here. They can still have good traits but probably not the whole package. I wish companies would make high end versions.

[Hyde]

To be honest after 2 weeks of using it, the keycaps itself never bugged me.

Though the switch itself does feel like there's more friction and takes a little bit more effort to use as oppose to say MX Brown.

However everyone have their own preference so I can still see some people might like this, but as a general recommendation I'd suggest people start with MX Brown.

[ander]

As long as they come stock with those god awful toy feeling keycaps and don't offer compatibility with MX stems to replace them.....I'm not sure how they could feel good to anyone based on those cheap horrid keycaps alone.  They really need to offer a model with PBT caps preferably thick ones or at the very least thicker ABS doubleshots...

...Even $30 Velocifire boards come stock with better keycaps, the ones Logitech uses are just ****. 

Lack of PBT/aftermarket caps are the only reason I haven't picked one up yet

The pad-printed caps though, It's a shame there aren't many Replacement Romer-G's caps available...

Oh man that blows. Anyone serious pretty much has to forget it then. Even if we touch type that ends up to be such an ugly mess. Especially the mileage most of us put on. Being no extra caps how can anyone here even consider it?...

LOL, you guys are so spoiled.

For what it's worth, quality pad printing is designed to last quite a while. If you're wearing it out, maybe it's not the printing's fault, but that of your cleanliness habits. Do you sit down and type with dirty hands? Is that a civilized thing to do even on keebs that aren't pad-printed?

I have PP keebs I've used for years that show no wear. (In my pre-MK days, I went through at least a dozen MS Natural Keyboards, and the PP legends were still crisp after the RDs had worn out.) Clean fingers are much less abrasive than dirty ones—just something to consider.

I've always felt that shorter throws make for more tired fingers/wrist. It's why I could never get into o-rings for cherry or topre

That seems odd, since O-rings are designed to absorb shock. Maybe you were just typing too hard, using more effort than necessary?

The best typists tune into their keys's actuation points and "skim" over them, using only as much force as they need to generate characters. It can help to think of what you're writing in terms of phrases, rather than words or characters. Then you tend to use your fingers, hand and forearm as a single, smoothly operating unit.

With your conscious mind focused on the meaning (rather than the mechanics) of what you're writing, your unconscious mind—which, let's face it, is controlling your muscles anyway—can use them most efficiently.

It's counterintuitive, but you actually have more control over your fingers when you don't try to use them independently. I learned this from classical piano. Chopin wrote piano etudes that are impossible to play until you relax and move from the larger parts of your body (hand, forearm, upper arm, torso), allowing you to make smoother, more unitized movements. Typing's just like that.

Anyway, sorry to babble... I just feel that if anything, O-rings should make typing easier, as long as you're not working harder than you need to.

[typo]

Come on, who is going to wash their hands every single time they use their personal keyboard? I do in fact wash my hands many times a day nonetheless. PP just seems to disappear on me and I am actually pretty clean. Shiny abs would be more of a spoiled thing imo.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

As long as they come stock with those god awful toy feeling keycaps and don't offer compatibility with MX stems to replace them.....I'm not sure how they could feel good to anyone based on those cheap horrid keycaps alone.  They really need to offer a model with PBT caps preferably thick ones or at the very least thicker ABS doubleshots...

...Even $30 Velocifire boards come stock with better keycaps, the ones Logitech uses are just ****. 

Lack of PBT/aftermarket caps are the only reason I haven't picked one up yet

The pad-printed caps though, It's a shame there aren't many Replacement Romer-G's caps available...

Oh man that blows. Anyone serious pretty much has to forget it then. Even if we touch type that ends up to be such an ugly mess. Especially the mileage most of us put on. Being no extra caps how can anyone here even consider it?...

LOL, you guys are so spoiled.

For what it's worth, quality pad printing is designed to last quite a while. If you're wearing it out, maybe it's not the printing's fault, but that of your cleanliness habits. Do you sit down and type with dirty hands? Is that a civilized thing to do even on keebs that aren't pad-printed?

I have PP keebs I've used for years that show no wear. (In my pre-MK days, I went through at least a dozen MS Natural Keyboards, and the PP legends were still crisp after the RDs had worn out.) Clean fingers are much less abrasive than dirty ones—just something to consider.

I've always felt that shorter throws make for more tired fingers/wrist. It's why I could never get into o-rings for cherry or topre

That seems odd, since O-rings are designed to absorb shock. Maybe you were just typing too hard, using more effort than necessary?

The best typists tune into their keys's actuation points and "skim" over them, using only as much force as they need to generate characters. It can help to think of what you're writing in terms of phrases, rather than words or characters. Then you tend to use your fingers, hand and forearm as a single, smoothly operating unit.

With your conscious mind focused on the meaning (rather than the mechanics) of what you're writing, your unconscious mind—which, let's face it, is controlling your muscles anyway—can use them most efficiently.

It's counterintuitive, but you actually have more control over your fingers when you don't try to use them independently. I learned this from classical piano. Chopin wrote piano etudes that are impossible to play until you relax and move from the larger parts of your body (hand, forearm, upper arm, torso), allowing you to make smoother, more unitized movements. Typing's just like that.

Anyway, sorry to babble... I just feel that if anything, O-rings should make typing easier, as long as you're not working harder than you need to.

Spoiled? No most of us just don't like to type on trash plastic.  Maybe most of us are just used to quality keycaps?  But Honestly when the $30...yes $30 dollar for the ENTIRE keyboard velocifire comes with nicer keycaps(Medium thick doubleshot translucent ABS) than the logitech does...hell most cheap chinese boards do now...there is simply no excuse.  Stop fanboying for Logitech and just admit the Keycaps are some of the worst on the market.  Outside of the horrible printing method they feel like typing on plastic used to make knockoff GI JOE soldiers sold at dollar stores.  Perhaps that is acceptable to you?  But to me and most anyone else on an enthusiast forum it is not.  The key difference here is on an MX stem you can replace them...since this is ROmer G you are stuck with the stock trash. 

The complete lack of quality is simple inexcusable at every possible level.

[typo]

I hopt that is not aimed at me? I fully agree the Logitech boards have junk keys and have said so. Pretty much all these "gaming" boards do. At least if one has MX stems you are not stuck with them. I am also not the one that mentioned "spoiled". I will say ABS can in fact be nice if from companies such as GMK or SP. Many custom sets in these easily top $300. I do tend to prefer PBT myself. How come some relatively inexpensive boards can have for instance Vortes Double Shot PBT. Yet high end manufacturers cannot or will not produce them? You either from DS ABS or DyeSub PBT. Nonetheless some here love shiny GMK and SA sets. At that level it is personal preference. They are certainly not bad by any means. I would have to think even in DS ABS they are beter than the likes of Vortex. I do not honestly know though. Never tried Vortex. Perhaps they are outstanding but I doubt it. I think Ducky has their own DS PBT. I cannot se that being better than a $300+ ABS DS set but I don't know. The keyboard in this topic is like $50 and their most expensive one is about $129. What does one expect from a company that spends a ton on marketing. The keyboard you mention I do not know of either but honestly have no interest whatsoever in a $30 keyboard lol. In that sense perhaps spoiled but I would not say so. I would say Logitech is hardly a enthusiast keyboard by any means. They do probably make some of the finest mice. Although that too is personal preference. Most here would probably be using a trackball anyways and not from Logitech!

[LiquidEvilGaming]

I hopt that is not aimed at me? I fully agree the Logitech boards have junk keys and have said so. Pretty much all these "gaming" boards do. At least if one has MX stems you are not stuck with them. I am also not the one that mentioned "spoiled". I will say ABS can in fact be nice if from companies such as GMK or SP. Many custom sets in these easily top $300. I do tend to prefer PBT myself. How come some relatively inexpensive boards can have for instance Vortes Double Shot PBT. Yet high end manufacturers cannot or will not produce them? You either from DS ABS or DyeSub PBT. Nonetheless some here love shiny GMK and SA sets. At that level it is personal preference. They are certainly not bad by any means. I would have to think even in DS ABS they are beter than the likes of Vortex. I do not honestly know though. Never tried Vortex. Perhaps they are outstanding but I doubt it. I think Ducky has their own DS PBT. I cannot se that being better than a $300+ ABS DS set but I don't know. The keyboard in this topic is like $50 and their most expensive one is about $129. What does one expect from a company that spends a ton on marketing. The keyboard you mention I do not know of either but honestly have no interest whatsoever in a $30 keyboard lol. In that sense perhaps spoiled but I would not say so. I would say Logitech is hardly a enthusiast keyboard by any means. They do probably make some of the finest mice. Although that too is personal preference. Most here would probably be using a trackball anyways and not from Logitech!

My post?

It was directed towards @ander

[daerid]

It's not a matter of being spoiled or not. I hate the way ABS feels. It grates on my nerves

[typo]

I am hating Windows new spell check dammit(sic). Anywhoo, this is USA okay? Unfortunately some people do not even have the internet let alone a bed. That does not make one that is in a position to be picky about what touches their fingertips spoiled.  I did not make the rules. Seriously though some people love "nice" ABS. In fact I cannot fault the GMK set that was $300 I am using right now LOL. Plus back to the first issue which I of course honestly did not actually mean. I bet 99% of those signed up here work and/or are in school. Both probably involving a lot of typing. I mean to a guy that drills holes for a living probably has a Milwaukee or Dewalt. So, tools of the trade kind of matter. I know that Geek, Nerd etc. is a culture beyond simply Keeb's but that is kind of our focus here. Why not shut down this site and we all type on Rubber Domes other than Topre? I am not at all picking a fight with you. I am just saying it is a preference amongst preferences. It is not exactly a 40 Carat Diamond ring. Even then, that is "excessive" not spoiled. Spoiled is like e a kid that insists on eating Desert first and it must be pudding every night. That is my understanding of the world LOL. Yeah, I don't get out much!

daerid, I have a feeling you might like these GMK's. Or not.

Liquid, I am just joking around. Actually I do not disagree with you to some extent but it is what it is. To the vast wealth of people that do not even know the difference. Luckily this is not nearly as bad as for instance a Woman's bag Forum HAHA!

OH Cr@p how do I shut this darn spell check off? It is built into the latest build of Windows across the board. Mac probably knows it's users are more intelligent or better yet Linux. I am such a Geek and so spoiled I have a Giant Linux Penguin here! My preference, but I code for Windows. Okay, too much information......

[SpAmRaY]

In fact I cannot fault the GMK set that was $300 I am using right now LOL.

What GMK set is $300???

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[typo]

Not sure it is "Pluto" or something. It has Blue, Grey and white keys. I was just guessing if you add it together it would be like 300 bucks. Since it did not come as a full set. It was someone else's anyways. Truthfully, I only paid them $50 LOL. I had a printed sheet with the cost of the different rows. I was just guessing from memory though. I did not mean that to be exact. I was just mentioning that there are $5 key caps and ones in the Hundreds of Dollars. I do see most full GMK sets are $85 to $125 about. I was probably in fact wrong but I did not mean for that statement to be Gospel Anyways, that is in response to people using $5 Rubber Dome boards. Even if the keyset is only $75, plus a board, perhaps rings, lube etc. There is certainly "price range" of keyboards. I am telling you Guy's because I am sure none of you know this LOL!

Edit: I see most full set GMK customs run about $200 and as much as $400. So my thinking they were $300 about was probably inline.

It is interesting that Vortex PBT-POM infill full set is like $30. Perhaps not all ABS is created equal?

[ander]

Come on, who is going to wash their hands every single time they use their personal keyboard? I do in fact wash my hands many times a day nonetheless. PP just seems to disappear on me and I am actually pretty clean. Shiny abs would be more of a spoiled thing imo.

I'm just judging from how most of my friends's keebs look when I visit them: like they've been dragged through mud. (The keebs, I mean, not the friends... Well, not all of the friends.) And I think (but don't say), "Yick, dude, how can you live like that? But I don't think they notice, because the grime accumulates so gradually.

Anyway, no, I don't expect anyone to wash their hands before they sit down to type. I like to, though, because I like the feeling of clean fingers on a clean keeb. It shows respect for my writing and work, and I enjoy taking good care of my stuff in general. So I guess it's just me.

Spoiled? No most of us just don't like to type on trash plastic.  Maybe most of us are just used to quality keycaps?  But Honestly when the $30...yes $30 dollar for the ENTIRE keyboard velocifire comes with nicer keycaps(Medium thick doubleshot translucent ABS) than the logitech does...hell most cheap chinese boards do now...there is simply no excuse.  Stop fanboying for Logitech and just admit the Keycaps are some of the worst on the market.  Outside of the horrible printing method they feel like typing on plastic used to make knockoff GI JOE soldiers sold at dollar stores.  Perhaps that is acceptable to you?  But to me and most anyone else on an enthusiast forum it is not.  The key difference here is on an MX stem you can replace them...since this is ROmer G you are stuck with the stock trash... The complete lack of quality is simple inexcusable at every possible level.

LOL—it just shows you how subjective this all is.

The keys on my G710 feel fine to me. As long as they're in good shape—not grimy or scratched or whatever—all KB keys feel fine to me. I do notice how switches feel, and how boards sound and respond to typing. But what kind of plastic the keys are made of, or if they're textured or not, or whatever, meh. It's like sitting down at a piano and agonizing over the kind of plastic the keys are made of. It's a lot more important how the piano plays and sounds, IMHO, how it responds as an instrument.

And hey, how about all these fancy "artisan" keys some of you guys shell out hundreds of bucks for, with little skull faces and trolls and dragons and stuff? Now those look uncomfortable.





Are you seriously telling me that typing on some flat, smooth, "cheap" ABS keys is less comfortable than typing on something like those? Even if one or two of them didn't cost as much as the whole board? Yeesh. Maybe I'm not masochistic enough to be a "real" KB enthusiast.  :?)

[Hyde]

I did notice PBT changes the typing sound, I'm one of the few people that prefer ABS "thock".  Because PBT is a harder more brittle material so the sound will turn out to be "thinner" and less resonant.

But different PBT set have different mixture, somehow out of all the PBT sets I've tried I like Poker 2's stock PBT the best.  It feels somewhat inbetween ABS and PBT, kind of like a hybrid between the 2.

As for the case of Logitech K840, it feels fine because it's just like any other ABS keycaps which never bothered me.

I do admit keycap preference is very subjective though so not everyone likes the same thing.

If anything I've had the keyboard for about 3 weeks now and key switch finally smoothed out so the switches are less scratchy than when I first got them.

Hopefully it will eventually be as smooth as my MX Brown (which is super worn in now and extra smooth).

[Budman]

I was at Best Buy today buying a TV mount and wandered to keyboard section. I couldn't help to buy this K840 being it is on sale for $59 this week and it is a switch I have never experienced. After using it briefly here is my take.

The Romer-G switch itself feels to me just like higher force MX Browns. The stroke has tad more friction/scratchiness in them than MX Brown. They also feel higher force than MX Browns overall and box confirms this. The box states 55g of "pressure point" force and shows it as peak force early in stroke, 45g at activation force it says after a drop from peak. You can feel this when you go slow to feel the stroke but typing full speed I just feel the 55g. These also sound like a quieter version of Browns - you still get the clack at the bottom of but it is more subdued and not as hard plastic sounding. I actually do quite like this switch for typing so far though.

The consistency and quality across the keyboard though is not good IMO. Most all of the keys feel the same but some of the bigger keys are toublesome, like Backspace and left-CTRL, suffer from binding when pressed off center. I can very easily duplicate this over and over slowly pushing these keys down off-center. This is something I expect for cheap membrane keyboards, not pricey mechanical.  I don't like the feel of this backspace key at all as it also rattles. Playing around  some more with all the keys now, I also discovered bad  off-center binding with TAB key too and the spacebar has a horrible metallic ringing/rattling sound, like a loose stabilizer bar underneath the key. One could use this in an office environment EXCEPT with this spacebar as it kills the subdued sound of the switches.

I also am not a fan of the open air "keys on slab" form and look. Reminds me of the AZIO mechanical I bought from Fry's last year (although this is much better looking. I like the dark simple stated look of this keyboard actually). Because of the form and tall keys combined with the lighter switches, I am experiencing same thing I experienced with the Matias Pro Quiet Click and the AZIO, and that is I keep activating the menu button with my right palm when typing fast and also have activated the left windows key as well a few times. A wrist wrest would probably alleviate this issue but I am not a fan of having to use wrist wrests as just another thing to buy to compensate for tall sensitive keyboards. (I tend to keep my wrists on desk when I type and move the fingers mostly)

I will be returning this for refund tomorrow as this keyboard doesn't offer anything really compelling. It is a shame because like I mentioned I do like this switch so far.  I can see this being a great board to buy years ago when Cherry was still protected by patent, but now with MX dropping in price and the variety of cheap Chinese clones, this Romer-G is a tough sell despite it being better than Browns IMO.  I guess one plus is that a mass market mechanical keyboard is available at major retailer for $80.

Fix the larger keys issues and maybe add in a USB port in next revision and I would be probably keeping this thing.