keypad with analogue keypads build

[Orinx]

I've been looking forward to the game Star Citizen for a while have wanted to build a controller for it, as I currently don't like the options I have for left hand input devices, the three options that there are right now are keyboard, joystick, and throttle, from a HOTAS.  I like keyboards but using digital signals for something that has an analogue input seems both a waste and a disadvantage for me. using a second joystick in my left hand sounds annoying as joysicks are better at controlling rotation, not translation.  A throttle seams to be designed to only control one axis well and as I want to be at least be able to control 3 translation axis it just seams impractical.

A while ago I was the following video about converting linear cherry switches into an analogue input.

I've been thinking about it for a while and I've decided to build my own costume keypad with a similar shape to the razer orbweaver but with a few of the keys returning analogue values.  I think I will use a layout of the finger keys similar to this, a key layout I cam up with when playing star conflict.



The red and white keys will have brown switches, while the blue and green switches will have red switches with magnets on glue to them and ss49 hall-effect sensors to get measure their position.  I will be combining the position of the four pairs of analogue output into 4 axes (thrust, up/down, left/right and roll)  I will also have a ps2 thumbstick for my thumb to use.  I plan on using a teensy 3.1 as my controller because it has enough analogue inputs for this. I've laid out a rough schematic for my keypad already to help me plan.



I've also started making a more detailed 3d model of my keypad, as I have a 3d printer I will be printing out the base for the switches to go in,and to let my move the switches around more I will not be using a pcb.



I'm really not sure if this is the best arrangement and have been playing around with some crude approximations to see what will feel nice.



I've also ordered 50 red and brown switches, and a set base set of ergodox DCS key caps the rest of the electronics I can get at local stores.

I would really appreciate any advice of the most conformable way to have keypad arranged, as I only have pictures of keypads to base my layout on.

[sublime]

cool **** man keep it up!

[Findecanor]

Welcome to Geekhack. That looks cool! I'm looking forward to seeing more.

I think your layout looks very promising. There are lots of existing "ergonomic" keyboards with columnar layouts but they are not mainstream. Columnar layout-keyboards were popular in Japan in the mid-early '80s before IBM lobbied to make their PC be the standard. One example keyboard is the NEC PC-8801-KI.
In more recent years there have also been keyboards with columnar layouts from TrulyErgonomic and Maltron. The ErgoDox DIY keyboard is popular on this board, but I think that it does not have enough offset between columns.

I have had a idea for a project somewhat similar to yours, but for both gaming and typing with both hands and moving the mouse pointer with an analogue joystick. I put it on ice because I did not have access to a 3D printer at the time for making 3D keywells.
What I came up with is that the keys don't really need to be at different angles in a bowl - you would get the same ergonomic benefit just from having the key columns at different heights, but if you did the height difference only through differently sized keycaps then the keys with the bigger keycaps would wobble too much.
Having a column's keys within the same plane is not that bad - if you angle the keys to each other (without making the keycaps smaller) then you would get the switches further apart, so that the user would have to stretch his fingers more instead of less.

I don't want to discourage you, but there is an existing startup called Aimpad for making a gamepad with analogue WASD. They have not published their final layout (it does not look like they are shooting for something particularly ergonomic) and their design does not include any joystick. So far, I like yours better.

[Orinx]

They way I'm trying to arrange my keys is to have them as close together as possible and to make them as easily pressed by the finger that presses them as possible, the best way to get all the keys as close together as possible is to have the switches at different angles, where is an extreme example of that.



I of course won't be angling my keys as much but they will be very close together,  while the actual switches will be further apart I don't think it will be much of an issue because when you press on the switch you will be pressing the switches down, not down and to the side you would have to with angled key caps, it also lets me use the same cap on each key so I have less to worry about.

They way my final layout will likely look like will have each column in an arch that is more readably reached by closest finger.

I've seen the Aimpad before and that isn't really want I'm looking for as I don't want a flat keyboard, I also would have less fun buying a premade solution then making it my self, If I was looking for an easier way, I would buy a razer orbweaver, replace some of the switches with reds, add hall effect sensors and connect them to a xbox controller.

[jacobolus]

Be careful about exactly how you tilt them.

What you want is for the axis that the keys press down along to be whatever is the easiest axis for the tip of your finger to press along using the main joints and biggest muscles. You probably want the further away keys to have a higher vertical position than the closer keys, but you don’t necessarily want to tilt the key-tops inward, because this requires using the finger extensor muscles, where you want to rely just on the flexors.

Since you’re making a 3d-printed shape and don’t need the backing of a PCB, you can basically orient and position your switches arbitrarily, so you should try to do some careful testing based on what’s easiest to press for your own hand.

If I were you, I’d try to track down someone with a Maltron keyboard to look at and try out for at least a few minutes. The Maltron in my opinion does a much better job than the Kinesis of having keys oriented properly relative to the hand/fingers. They have an easier time of this because the Maltron wiring is done by hand (so the relative switch orientation/position has lots of flexibility), instead of using a curved PCB the way the Kinesis does.

[futurebird]

Question about analogue: Is the only use for this gaming or could there be other applications?

I'm fascinated but I can't think of how I would use it. Maybe controlling the mouse with a function key?

Also I'm getting this datahand vibe off of that arrangement. (Not a bad thing.)

[Orinx]

@jacobolus  thanks for the advice, my current design is definitely not set in stone, and I'll me making small prototypes and iterating on it until I get something I like.


@futurebird well very few programs use analogue inputs so theres not much else it could be used for, it is possible to make the key presses result in a velocity of the mouse, but it could feel strange because the mouse is a zero order device, and the key presses will be first order.


EDIT:

I've when out today and bought the teensy, hall-effect sensors, magnets and diodes for my project, now I'm just waiting on my switches and key caps to arrive.

[Orinx]

I have had my switches arrive (51 red and 50 brown) more then I need for this project but I have been having a lot of fun playing with them.  I also unclogged my 3d printer with the add of a blow torch and started printing out prototypes of base sections, iterating through different designs will be useful as I really don't like the first test I did for the 123,QWE,ASD key bases.

[dorkvader]

those printed base sections are brilliant.

I imagine it would make DIYing a custom design a lot easier.

[Orinx]

@dorkvader ya while being able to test out different arrangements hour or two wait between iterations is making this a lot easier then if I was using a pcb. It will allow me to try out some arrangements that would not see likely to work just because I can.

[CPTBadAss]

Whoa, do those bases just snap together?

[Orinx]

Whoa, do those bases just snap together?

The switches snap into the bases, but the bases do not snap together, I'm testing different sections of my keypad set up so I'm only printing out the sections that I am interested in at the time, when I print the full version there still will be multiple pieces but I have yet to decide exactly how they will fit together.