[GB]Enjoypbt Kuro/Shiro via KBDfans (GB Closed)

[Digitize]

Any chance in adding an R2 run in concurrence with the R1 now that there are all the delays?

I would assume the priority right now is with making sure those that ordered get their sets before thinking about another run.

Totally agree with statement above about getting current orders fulfilled before running another GB. The chaos that can ensue if another GB runs concurrently another and another, lets just not go there, cause in the end some people won’t be happy and won’t be satisfied no matter what explanation is given about timely production delays after delays.

Edited: spelling


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[Mr_BeastQuake]

Totally agree with statement above about getting current orders fulfilled before running another GB. The chaos that can ensue if another GB runs concurrently another and another, lets just not go there, cause I’m the end people won’t be happy and won’t be satisfied no matter what explanation is given about timely production delays after delays.

Is it really that much more complicated? You just tack more orders onto the bottom of the list, the suggestion was based on there being a delay either way... I don't think anyone is suggesting 4 GB's at one time.

Also it's more like opening it up for another round rather than running another GB, all the kinks are getting worked out concurrently. I understand wanting to be catered to first (rightfully so) but some objectivity is needed here.

[BAS1C]

Totally agree with statement above about getting current orders fulfilled before running another GB. The chaos that can ensue if another GB runs concurrently another and another, lets just not go there, cause I’m the end people won’t be happy and won’t be satisfied no matter what explanation is given about timely production delays after delays.

Is it really that much more complicated? You just tack more orders onto the bottom of the list, the suggestion was based on there being a delay either way... I don't think anyone is suggesting 4 GB's at one time.

Also it's more like opening it up for another round rather than running another GB, all the kinks are getting worked out concurrently. I understand wanting to be catered to first (rightfully so) but some objectivity is needed here.

This is correct. As they are not manufactured yet, it would be more of a "Add X orders to the bottom of original order list and pump out X more sets". I agree running a wholly separate GB concurrently is a bad idea. I just thought I would put the idea out there as it could help recoup any costs for extra samples etc that had to be produced.. My 0.02! Definitely don't want to negatively affect orders already placed.

[DukeEsquire]

Totally agree with statement above about getting current orders fulfilled before running another GB. The chaos that can ensue if another GB runs concurrently another and another, lets just not go there, cause I’m the end people won’t be happy and won’t be satisfied no matter what explanation is given about timely production delays after delays.

Is it really that much more complicated? You just tack more orders onto the bottom of the list, the suggestion was based on there being a delay either way... I don't think anyone is suggesting 4 GB's at one time.

Also it's more like opening it up for another round rather than running another GB, all the kinks are getting worked out concurrently. I understand wanting to be catered to first (rightfully so) but some objectivity is needed here.

I could be mistaken about EPBT, but usually when you place the order, you're slotted in line based on your order size and then other orders (i.e.: other sets) are slotted behind you.

If one of the orders in the middle grows bigger, that pushes everyone else's schedule behind them.

So, it's not so simple as just tacking on more orders to this set. It may not affect people who have already ordered this set, but it will affect other sets behind Kuro/Shiro.

[Mr_BeastQuake]

If one of the orders in the middle grows bigger, that pushes everyone else's schedule behind them.

So, it's not so simple as just tacking on more orders to this set. It may not affect people who have already ordered this set, but it will affect other sets behind Kuro/Shiro.

If that is how it works, then I mean it does seem like you can just tack the orders on. Being worried about the timeline of someone else’s GB behind yours seems like something that can get out-of-hand.

They may not even allow it, my point is just that having 200 orders after re-opening the GB isn’t any different than having 200 orders originally in the GB. Assuming, of course, the limiting factor is color matching and such.

[DukeEsquire]

If one of the orders in the middle grows bigger, that pushes everyone else's schedule behind them.

So, it's not so simple as just tacking on more orders to this set. It may not affect people who have already ordered this set, but it will affect other sets behind Kuro/Shiro.

If that is how it works, then I mean it does seem like you can just tack the orders on. Being worried about the timeline of someone else’s GB behind yours seems like something that can get out-of-hand.

They may not even allow it, my point is just that having 200 orders after re-opening the GB isn’t any different than having 200 orders originally in the GB. Assuming, of course, the limiting factor is color matching and such.

I'm a little confused on what you're saying.

It's not KBDFans being worried about other people's GBs. It's about EPBT worrying about other GBs in line.

[Clo_0lD]

It's like if you were to go to a busy drive-thru restaurant. You finally place your order after waiting in line. Meanwhile, cars are stacking up behind you waiting to order and get stuff as well. Once you get to the window, you changed your mind and now you want something else on top of what you originally ordered. It wouldn't be right to do this because you're just screwing the people behind you by delaying because you suddenly decide you wanted more food. The only option is to get what you originally ordered and then go through the line again.

Our problem is that the restaurant screwed up our order and we're waiting at the window, but that doesn't mean we get to change the amount that we ordered because it would affect the people behind us even more and wouldn't be fair. 

You also have to think about the logistics of this hypothetical 2nd GB. It would all need to be organized ASAP, with pretty much no marketing, and kbdfans would have to agree to run it and be able to run it soon so that ePBT could get the final numbers. Also, how long would this hypothetical GB last? Would we have to wait another month before we get the new order number? Or would it just be a quick one week or less thing? Either way, it would just lead to delays for everyone else waiting in line and it wouldn't be fair to any of them. There are enough delays already with the mismatching colors, we don't need any more problems. There's just way too much that can go wrong imo. Waiting for a R2 is probably the only and best option.

[Mr_BeastQuake]

I'm a little confused on what you're saying.

It's not KBDFans being worried about other people's GBs. It's about EPBT worrying about other GBs in line.

Most of the apparent confusion probably comes from thinking I’m raging for the GB to be reopened. When I said “they may not even allow it” I was referring to ePBT.

The whole point I am trying to make is that I don’t think it’s some logistical nightmare that would delay people’s sets. If ePBT allowed it and the runners wanted to, it shouldn’t be viewed as a negative thing.

[DukeEsquire]

I'm a little confused on what you're saying.

It's not KBDFans being worried about other people's GBs. It's about EPBT worrying about other GBs in line.

Most of the apparent confusion probably comes from thinking I’m raging for the GB to be reopened. When I said “they may not even allow it” I was referring to ePBT.

The whole point I am trying to make is that I don’t think it’s some logistical nightmare that would delay people’s sets. If ePBT allowed it and the runners wanted to, it shouldn’t be viewed as a negative thing.

If KBDFans and EPBT both were OK with it, then it wouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure anyone is arguing with you on that.

I'm saying there is probably a very real reason why EPBT would not allow it.

[Digitize]

It's like if you were to go to a busy drive-thru restaurant. You finally place your order after waiting in line. Meanwhile, cars are stacking up behind you waiting to order and get stuff as well. Once you get to the window, you changed your mind and now you want something else on top of what you originally ordered. It wouldn't be right to do this because you're just screwing the people behind you by delaying because you suddenly decide you wanted more food. The only option is to get what you originally ordered and then go through the line again.

Our problem is that the restaurant screwed up our order and we're waiting at the window, but that doesn't mean we get to change the amount that we ordered because it would affect the people behind us even more and wouldn't be fair. 

You also have to think about the logistics of this hypothetical 2nd GB. It would all need to be organized ASAP, with pretty much no marketing, and kbdfans would have to agree to run it and be able to run it soon so that ePBT could get the final numbers. Also, how long would this hypothetical GB last? Would we have to wait another month before we get the new order number? Or would it just be a quick one week or less thing? Either way, it would just lead to delays for everyone else waiting in line and it wouldn't be fair to any of them. There are enough delays already with the mismatching colors, we don't need any more problems. There's just way too much that can go wrong imo. Waiting for a R2 is probably the only and best option.

Huh..I like you analogy with the use of food. easy to understand and picture.


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[Mr_BeastQuake]

If KBDFans and EPBT both were OK with it, then it wouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure anyone is arguing with you on that.

I'm saying there is probably a very real reason why EPBT would not allow it.

The initial concern that was voiced after mentioning re-opening the GB was that current spot holders would get their sets later. This is what I’ve been arguing against.

Deciding whether KBDFans and epbt would allow it isn’t worthwhile, it’s up to them.

[Ghghop]

I only meant in my earlier comment that it would make sense for KBDfans and epbt to finish what the started before beginning another run. I have no issues with another run of the keycap set. I am not arguing whether or not another addition to the order would delay anything further, just that to me it makes sense to follow through on the current orders before even planning another run. As speculated above it is usually more complicated when making these large orders with manufacturers than asking for them to make more. There is a process to it all.

[DukeEsquire]

I only meant in my earlier comment that it would make sense for KBDfans and epbt to finish what the started before beginning another run. I have no issues with another run of the keycap set. I am not arguing whether or not another addition to the order would delay anything further, just that to me it makes sense to follow through on the current orders before even planning another run. As speculated above it is usually more complicated when making these large orders with manufacturers than asking for them to make more. There is a process to it all.

Why would existing GB participants care if it doesn’t affect them?

[voight-kampff]

Lol

I hope we can get infos about Kuro/Shiro from now on and not about food.

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[fleeceman]

Any update on when this is likely to ship?

[wellbeing44]

I only meant in my earlier comment that it would make sense for KBDfans and epbt to finish what the started before beginning another run. I have no issues with another run of the keycap set. I am not arguing whether or not another addition to the order would delay anything further, just that to me it makes sense to follow through on the current orders before even planning another run. As speculated above it is usually more complicated when making these large orders with manufacturers than asking for them to make more. There is a process to it all.

Why would existing GB participants care if it doesn’t affect them?

This kind of thinking brings our community down

[DukeEsquire]

I only meant in my earlier comment that it would make sense for KBDfans and epbt to finish what the started before beginning another run. I have no issues with another run of the keycap set. I am not arguing whether or not another addition to the order would delay anything further, just that to me it makes sense to follow through on the current orders before even planning another run. As speculated above it is usually more complicated when making these large orders with manufacturers than asking for them to make more. There is a process to it all.

Why would existing GB participants care if it doesn’t affect them?

This kind of thinking brings our community down

Uhhh. What?

Wanting more people to have caps is a bad thing for the community?

[Hell-es]

I think there is a bit too much speculation and thinking here - it is Goks Set - if he wants to re-run it, he will tell.

Otherwise, we can hope for extras, even if unlikely

[gordonderp]

I only meant in my earlier comment that it would make sense for KBDfans and epbt to finish what the started before beginning another run. I have no issues with another run of the keycap set. I am not arguing whether or not another addition to the order would delay anything further, just that to me it makes sense to follow through on the current orders before even planning another run. As speculated above it is usually more complicated when making these large orders with manufacturers than asking for them to make more. There is a process to it all.

Why would existing GB participants care if it doesn’t affect them?

This kind of thinking brings our community down

Uhhh. What?

Wanting more people to have caps is a bad thing for the community?

I think he's agreeing with you

[justsomerandomusername]

Any update when they are shipping? It has been almost 2 months since the announcement.

[gok_nz]

Any update when they are shipping? It has been almost 2 months since the announcement.

Don't have a firm date yet but they are manufacturing as we speak. I'll try to get a timeline from KBDfans.

[NimbleTortoise]

Any update when they are shipping? It has been almost 2 months since the announcement.

Don't have a firm date yet but they are manufacturing as we speak. I'll try to get a timeline from KBDfans.

Did you already get a black reverse dye subbed sample you like? I hope it ships by end of this month.

[justsomerandomusername]

Don't have a firm date yet but they are manufacturing as we speak. I'll try to get a timeline from KBDfans.

Thank you for the update

[rondg]

When is the RAMA keycap GB?

[gok_nz]

When is the RAMA keycap GB?

This will probably be deferred till later. KBDfans will have a lot on their plate due to how successfull the Polaris GB was.

[D4PP3R]

How concerned do I have to be that my spacebars will be warped? Never gotten an EPBT set, so I'm not sure what to expect.

[dantambok]

How concerned do I have to be that my spacebars will be warped? Never gotten an EPBT set, so I'm not sure what to expect.

Well spacebar warping is a hit and miss and most you can easily DIY fix. My EPBT slate spacebars are pretty much straight

[D4PP3R]

It's come to my attention that there may be some unexpected changes in shipping costs that may affect this GB if all the packages aren't delivered by Oct 17th of this year. The US has chosen to leave the Universal Postal Union (UPU), which I believe is responsible for the low cost/free shipping provided by Epacket in China.

Source: https://postalpro.usps.com/mnt/glusterfs/2019-06/Universal%20Postal%20Union%20Exit%20Update_MTAC%20June%2019.pdf

After the 17th, should talks between the US and the United Nations fail, the prices for shipping from China to the USA, and possibly Canada as well, will be renegotiated to a higher cost. A cost that is likely in-line with domestic US shipping costs (like $10), if not twice that, considering the differing distances of shipment. Needless to say, all those that chose Epacket as their method of shipment will have to pay the difference before their package can be shipped, as well as possibly everyone else, as a result of the possible increase in shipping prices across the board. New shipping route may have to be selected to service people in Canada, which will save you money, but will likely take a long time.

In other words, there is a hard time limit on the shipment and delivery of this drop before receiving your package becomes a hell of a lot more complicated. 

[ThePanduuh]

from kbdfans discord today: Kuro Shiro  keycap september 20 is expected

that's not that far away. might actually come along side my kbd8x mk2!

[NimbleTortoise]

Arriving by Sept 20 or being shipped at Sept 20?

[J3ff_Leopard]

Arriving by Sept 20 or being shipped at Sept 20?

I'm assuming arriving to KBDFans on the 20th by the phrasing on their Discord.

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[D4PP3R]

Arriving by Sept 20 or being shipped at Sept 20?

I'm assuming arriving to KBDFans on the 20th by the phrasing on their Discord.

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As long as all of the shipments can be sent out before Oct 17th, there is hope that there will be no interference of shipping prices, but I'm concerned that there will be a big problem with the cost of shipping possibly going up while the package is in transit. If the packages are handed off to another shipping company, mid-way through deliver, they may be forced to abide by the new shipping cost rules, which would probably mean that they would be stuck in transit until the difference can be payed in some way. I'm fairly confident, given the trade ware going on between China and the US, that talks will fail, resulting in the cost renegotiation that will make this hella complicated.   

[Zoro_Senpaii]

Arriving by Sept 20 or being shipped at Sept 20?

I'm assuming arriving to KBDFans on the 20th by the phrasing on their Discord.

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As long as all of the shipments can be sent out before Oct 17th, there is hope that there will be no interference of shipping prices, but I'm concerned that there will be a big problem with the cost of shipping possibly going up while the package is in transit. If the packages are handed off to another shipping company, mid-way through deliver, they may be forced to abide by the new shipping cost rules, which would probably mean that they would be stuck in transit until the difference can be payed in some way. I'm fairly confident, given the trade ware going on between China and the US, that talks will fail, resulting in the cost renegotiation that will make this hella complicated.

I imagine there would be some sort of grace period, that would allow something that is in-transit to not be affected by the increased shipping costs. A change to shipping costs like that would surely mess up more than our precious key caps, and would throw a massive wrench in the global market, that I hope some one would have realized before hand.

[cemoon]

Arriving by Sept 20 or being shipped at Sept 20?

Update on kbdfans.com: "9-10：It is expected to be shipped in late September or early October, and the raw materials are being injected"

[NimbleTortoise]

Arriving by Sept 20 or being shipped at Sept 20?

Update on kbdfans.com: "9-10：It is expected to be shipped in late September or early October, and the raw materials are being injected"

Thanks babe

[aleck]

Arriving by Sept 20 or being shipped at Sept 20?

Update on kbdfans.com: "9-10：It is expected to be shipped in late September or early October, and the raw materials are being injected"

It's happening!

[switchnollie]

Can't wait for this to ship

[popkorn62]

This is easily the set I’m most excited to get!

[LightningXI]

Came to this thread for an update... and it looks like things are looking promising! Really look forward to seeing this set in hand.

[snurrebassen]

Crazy excited about this, cause i’ve just grown more and more fond of epbt lately! So happy i joined this one.


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[vicissitude]

It's always happy to see an update of this thread.
Make me feel like really close. 

[RETURNISO]

Crazy excited about this, cause i’ve just grown more and more fond of epbt lately! So happy i joined this one.


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F yes! And i think this is gonna be one of the few sets, if not the ONLY set with a Japanese translated Danish and Norwegian Æ separately haha, imo that is pretty dope

[J3ff_Leopard]

Latest update via KBDFans Discord states a delivery date of October 20th, which almost surely means delivery to them and not Group Buy participants. Early November here we come.

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[D4PP3R]

This is an absolute ****show, I doubt that they'll even meet the Oct 20th timeframe. The US and China are renegotiating shipping rates on the 17th, so we'll all likely have to pay extra at this point. Not to mention, what in gods name are they talking about for the black dye-sub? I thought the agreed apon idea was that they were going to do white dye-subs on black keys.... We need an update from Gok.

[voight-kampff]

I am also quiet disappointed

but beside white dye-sub on black keys is not possible. They need to do inverse dye-sub, so not the white but the black areas will be inked.

This is an absolute ****show, I doubt that they'll even meet the Oct 20th timeframe. The US and China are renegotiating shipping rates on the 17th, so we'll all likely have to pay extra at this point. Not to mention, what in gods name are they talking about for the black dye-sub? I thought the agreed apon idea was that they were going to do white dye-subs on black keys.... We need an update from Gok.

[slxdegrees]

This is an absolute ****show, I doubt that they'll even meet the Oct 20th timeframe. The US and China are renegotiating shipping rates on the 17th, so we'll all likely have to pay extra at this point. Not to mention, what in gods name are they talking about for the black dye-sub? I thought the agreed apon idea was that they were going to do white dye-subs on black keys.... We need an update from Gok.

This seems like your first keyset GB. While I can't say I'm not disappointed by how this has been delayed repeatedly, I have been in enough gbs to not be surprised any longer. I mean, what else can you do bar wait? Demanding it go faster or voicing your stern disapproval is not gonna make it go any quicker. If you're really not keen on paying extra, just cancel and get a refund - I'm sure kbdfans will be more than willing to accede to that particular request.

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[CYFX]

This is an absolute ****show, I doubt that they'll even meet the Oct 20th timeframe. The US and China are renegotiating shipping rates on the 17th, so we'll all likely have to pay extra at this point. Not to mention, what in gods name are they talking about for the black dye-sub? I thought the agreed apon idea was that they were going to do white dye-subs on black keys.... We need an update from Gok.

Here are the newest colour samples:

Show Image

Below are photos from KBDfans showing the latest reversed dyesubbed samples.
Left is kuro/shiro, right is from an ABS set. They have managed to get it very black.

Show Image

More samples:

Show Image

I've given the greenlight for the normal dyesubbed keys so they are manufacturing those now but I'm not happy with the reversed dyesubbed keys.
When I received the first batch of samples, they were more of a very very dark navy.  Since then, they've tried reversed dyesubbing onto the WS1 base, L9 and the white from Black on White to see what base cap would yield the best black.
L9 makes the legends look tan and Black on White had the best tone of black but the legends don't match well enough.
Right now, I'm getting them to use the WS1 base and light the link a smidgen by adding some red/brown tone into it to offset the blue.

Click below to see the old samples

More

Show Image

Show Image

2nd sample is on the left and the newest is on the right. As state previously, it is more obvious in person and even more so on an overcast day.
I'm happy with this latest colour and will post photos of the dyesubbed samples next week.

Repost from IC thread.

Here are pics of the latest samples.

Show Image

Taken on a camera phone under natural light. The colour is a bit more saturated than in person but is a little more colour accurate than the DSLR.

Show Image

Taken on a camera phone under artificial light. The warmth gets compounded.

Show Image

Latest sample

Show Image

First sample

Show Image

Back in March, I had sent colour swatches for EPBT to colour match to and the samples arrived in April. I told KBDfans that it was too red and that to get a better idea of the hue, you need to look at the back of the keycaps rather than the top.
They agreed and asked if they could approve the next round of samples. I obliged because I thought it would be a simple task since they just needed to make a colour halfway between the first and second samples (brightness similar to the second sample but in a more neutral hue like the first sample) and I thought we were on the same page and also they knew from the beginning what my aims were.

This was my mistake and the third sample which got the green light by KBDfans went into production. I received the samples this week and I noticed that they looked really warm so I compared them to the colour samples that I received in April and found that they were virtually the same so I alerted KBDfans who put a stop on the production in order for us to re-confirm the colour again.

I'm sorry about the inconvenience this causes but I believe that getting a better product is worth the extra delays.

Gok stated in the samples post previously, that there was initially an issue with the black keys looking “fuzzy” around the white lettering.

In this post I have quoted from, they mention that the black was almost a navy rather than a dark black.

Based on this post The black color has since been correct.

[Hell-es]

A bit dissapointing that here is a longer delay and also with extended 2048 in europe - not perfect with 2 epbt gbs from kbdfans ... but thats life

At least happy to somehow got a spot after the gb end ... so i won‘t complain

[Berzerker]

This is an absolute ****show, I doubt that they'll even meet the Oct 20th timeframe. The US and China are renegotiating shipping rates on the 17th, so we'll all likely have to pay extra at this point. Not to mention, what in gods name are they talking about for the black dye-sub? I thought the agreed apon idea was that they were going to do white dye-subs on black keys.... We need an update from Gok.

Ask for a refund and quit your *****ing if you can't handle delays like this. This is not that bad and incredibly common in these.

[voight-kampff]

This is an absolute ****show, I doubt that they'll even meet the Oct 20th timeframe. The US and China are renegotiating shipping rates on the 17th, so we'll all likely have to pay extra at this point. Not to mention, what in gods name are they talking about for the black dye-sub? I thought the agreed apon idea was that they were going to do white dye-subs on black keys.... We need an update from Gok.

Here are the newest colour samples:

Show Image

Below are photos from KBDfans showing the latest reversed dyesubbed samples.
Left is kuro/shiro, right is from an ABS set. They have managed to get it very black.

Show Image

More samples:

Show Image

I've given the greenlight for the normal dyesubbed keys so they are manufacturing those now but I'm not happy with the reversed dyesubbed keys.
When I received the first batch of samples, they were more of a very very dark navy.  Since then, they've tried reversed dyesubbing onto the WS1 base, L9 and the white from Black on White to see what base cap would yield the best black.
L9 makes the legends look tan and Black on White had the best tone of black but the legends don't match well enough.
Right now, I'm getting them to use the WS1 base and light the link a smidgen by adding some red/brown tone into it to offset the blue.

Click below to see the old samples

More

Show Image

Show Image

2nd sample is on the left and the newest is on the right. As state previously, it is more obvious in person and even more so on an overcast day.
I'm happy with this latest colour and will post photos of the dyesubbed samples next week.

Repost from IC thread.

Here are pics of the latest samples.

Show Image

Taken on a camera phone under natural light. The colour is a bit more saturated than in person but is a little more colour accurate than the DSLR.

Show Image

Taken on a camera phone under artificial light. The warmth gets compounded.

Show Image

Latest sample

Show Image

First sample

Show Image

Back in March, I had sent colour swatches for EPBT to colour match to and the samples arrived in April. I told KBDfans that it was too red and that to get a better idea of the hue, you need to look at the back of the keycaps rather than the top.
They agreed and asked if they could approve the next round of samples. I obliged because I thought it would be a simple task since they just needed to make a colour halfway between the first and second samples (brightness similar to the second sample but in a more neutral hue like the first sample) and I thought we were on the same page and also they knew from the beginning what my aims were.

This was my mistake and the third sample which got the green light by KBDfans went into production. I received the samples this week and I noticed that they looked really warm so I compared them to the colour samples that I received in April and found that they were virtually the same so I alerted KBDfans who put a stop on the production in order for us to re-confirm the colour again.

I'm sorry about the inconvenience this causes but I believe that getting a better product is worth the extra delays.

Gok stated in the samples post previously, that there was initially an issue with the black keys looking “fuzzy” around the white lettering.

In this post I have quoted from, they mention that the black was almost a navy rather than a dark black.

Based on this post The black color has since been correct.

The new colour samples look really nice. God work.

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