Not a reasonable price at all.
Not a reasonable price at all.Some people spend $500+ on Korean customs, I don't think $350 for a board that is so rare and so sought after is a bad price...
I'm guessing MX compatible key caps are completely out of the question for something like this.
I was actually thinking about the case cost as well. If a "modern" TKL/75%/60% model F keyboard were designed based on the construction of the F-122, it would have a simple flat steel bottom and a plastic top, which should help quite a bit in reducing overall costs. Just look at aluminum cases for modern Cherry TKL boards. They can easily cost more than the entire keyboard they are enclosing. Granted it's partly an economy of scale too in that case.
It seems like there would be broader interest in a modern layout as well, and you'd potentially attract all of the buyers who already own one or both of the classic boards you're planning to replicate.
Hi intelli and Techno Trousers - yes the intent of the project is to get as close to the original F77 and F62 as possible. You can adjust the layouts to any layout that a Model M would support, like ISO enter, split backspace, split left shift, etc.
Hi intelli and Techno Trousers - yes the intent of the project is to get as close to the original F77 and F62 as possible. You can adjust the layouts to any layout that a Model M would support, like ISO enter, split backspace, split left shift, etc.
Sure, I get it, and like I said, I'll be putting myself down as interested in an F77 repro.
For what it's worth, here are the unavoidable drawbacks I've found in the current "easily obtained" Fs, and why for me a modern TKL F would be far superior to any.
XT: awful layout, won't work without a controller mod, possibly tolerable with a lot of expense and work using Xtant. I'll probably never attempt this one.
AT: no top function keys, esc, or printscr. Big-J enter unless time consuming and exacting ANSI mod is done, no ctrl+alt on each side of space bar without difficult plate modification. Awful space bar feel without modification. No win key mod possible.
F-122: Bonkers massive, needs controller conversion, tough layout unless ANSI-modified, no esc or print screen possible in standard locations, arrow cluster 1 row too high, no spot on PCB for a Win key or equivalent.
Now, even with all of these drawbacks I've worked my way up to a usable collection of these Model Fs an they are my daily drivers because the typing feel is just unbeatable in my experience. But the labor I've put into these is worth way more than $350 apiece, and they're all still compromised in some unavoidable ways.
Capacitive buckling spring keyboards in modern layouts would be so incredible. I'm convinced that a company could carve a nice niche business out of selling them if they could get enough exposure. Just imagine the sales pitches:
Gamer? Forget N-key rollover, try INFINITE key rollover!
Vintage keyboard enthusiast? Try a buckling spring keyboard with Windows keys, top notch build quality, and a much better typing feel than the venerated Model M.
Prefer to buy quality goods? How about keys that could last for two hundred million keystrokes?
I've long wished that Unicomp would consider doing this, but I think now they are mostly just interested in scraping by.
So I'll hold out hope that if this initial run goes well, you'll decide to continue on with some experiments into modern layouts! You'd definitely keep getting my business. I'll bet you'd even be able to convince Fohat.Digs to buy a modern 104/108 key layout Model F. He really loves that ten keypad for some reason.
Frosty - I have just about everything in place now except for the case and foam. I am trying to find out the particular type of 2 mm thick Ensolite foam used - I have been told a lot of Ensolite foam has the "skin" as shown in the attached photos of my original F77's foam. With die casting I would need about 200 preorders of each type F62 and F77 to get it down to $350 total. I am looking into CNC milled aluminum, either anodized or powder coated (or maybe even a choice for both if it's not too expensive and there is enough interest in both finishes).
How difficult would it be to make cherry MX compatible stems for this? I'd like a hhkb style layout with the fn key. Why not make a modern version of the classic.
Function can be handled by holding Spaceterrible idea. holding space should insert multiple spaces. would you like if I replaced you A so that keeping it pressed would make it function like a CTRL? no. there's a reason keys have repeat.
splitting right (opposite of HHKB though)splitting right is exactly what it should be. the right shift is big enough, as it is.
left shift (ISO)left shift doesn't need fixing.
in between Ctrl / Alt on either sidethis is a possibility, but requires another layout to learn. the right shift is HUGE. why not just make it a little smaller?
in place of Caps Lock.another possibility... but that can be handled in the firmware.
I thought we just established that these were going to be recreations? I vote for keeping the original plate and PCB layouts for the initial run, at least.
AK - loose barrels and flippers/springs may be available 6 months or so from now. They should be around $1 per flipper/spring/barrel combination in bulk. Anyone interested in doing another project down the line should PM me - if there are a number of projects I may not have enough barrels left for more than a few keyboards and then you would be out of luck if you need them
Vizir - take a look at this thread : http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/ibm-model-f-62-and-f-107-mod-ideas-t9324-60.htmlVery cool. Is that PCB design being used in this project?
The PCB template wcass had drawn up for the Rev3 F62 there, supported several configs for the bottom row.
What are the advantages of TMK over xwhatsit and vice versa?
But it's moot, isn't it? TMK doesn't have the capsense part
I'm sure if someone makes a capsense module for tmk, it'll get added to the official repository. I think HaaTa's kiibohd firmware got the capsense support quite recently.
Xwhatsit controllers are well tested and solid for Model F and beamspring conversions. I don't really see any reason to reinvent the wheel on this one.
Xwhatsit controllers are well tested and solid for Model F and beamspring conversions. I don't really see any reason to reinvent the wheel on this one.
Yes, that thread left off a year ago with "I have some arm ideas" and references a dead repo. It's not listed as an active project on kiibohd.com.I didn't ask for tmk support or anything about forking tmk. Just stated that it could be done.
Look, I really like TMK, but not enough to fork it. Xwhatsit's solution is good. Is there something in TMK that you feel like the xwhatsit firmware needs? It would probably be easier to port the feature that way, rather than the other way around.
Yes, that thread left off a year ago with "I have some arm ideas" and references a dead repo. It's not listed as an active project on kiibohd.com.
Look, I really like TMK, but not enough to fork it. Xwhatsit's solution is good. Is there something in TMK that you feel like the xwhatsit firmware needs? It would probably be easier to port the feature that way, rather than the other way around.
Yes, that thread left off a year ago with "I have some arm ideas" and references a dead repo. It's not listed as an active project on kiibohd.com.
Look, I really like TMK, but not enough to fork it. Xwhatsit's solution is good. Is there something in TMK that you feel like the xwhatsit firmware needs? It would probably be easier to port the feature that way, rather than the other way around.
I'm not familiar with xwhatsit, does it have any website or repo? How many fn layers does it support?
TMK have some features that I really like:
for example double-tap FN key, when I double tap shift key all letters become upper case (so I don't need capslock key any more and replaced it with ctrl key)
also I'm using space FN feature - when I press and hold space it switches layer where I have F keys on the numeric row and arrow keys instead of J, I, K, L.
Is it possible to program keyboard this way with xwhatsit?
Frosty - I expect to price each keyboard at $325 not counting the keys (just around my initial $350 estimate). So you can order any keys you'd like through unicomp (I will see if I can order them in bulk for a better price).
Not sure what Unicomp charges for the special key set.
An update: Prototype PCBs have been ordered!
Great iamtootallforthis. I see you are located in NY/NJ per your profile - feel free to do a local pickup in Manhattan to save $25 shipping on each keyboard.
Thanks Dodgy - it looks like you registered the 100th keyboard!
As an update, prototype PCBs should arrive on Monday! And the prototype cases should arrive in 2-3 weeks.
Wallet so painful T^T
Wallet so painful T^TAt least you can justify this as a unique opportunity, and not yet another overpriced Korean custom! But my wallet will need recovery time too.
Nope no printed design or logos will be used anywhere. Instead I upgraded the box to be sturdier double-walled cardboard.I was thinking of a fancy realforce style box design. But I think it could be much harder to get right. If there is a good design, it could be a nice part to this whole project.
If people want to submit their own logo designs freely I can consider them, but I would not want to consider anything that resembles the original logo. The keyboard designs have become public domain but the logo is not!
The Realforce box is fancy?Nope no printed design or logos will be used anywhere. Instead I upgraded the box to be sturdier double-walled cardboard.I was thinking of a fancy realforce style box design. But I think it could be much harder to get right. If there is a good design, it could be a nice part to this whole project.
If people want to submit their own logo designs freely I can consider them, but I would not want to consider anything that resembles the original logo. The keyboard designs have become public domain but the logo is not!
I think it's a nice box. Maybe not fancy. The SSK had a nice box.The Realforce box is fancy?Nope no printed design or logos will be used anywhere. Instead I upgraded the box to be sturdier double-walled cardboard.I was thinking of a fancy realforce style box design. But I think it could be much harder to get right. If there is a good design, it could be a nice part to this whole project.
If people want to submit their own logo designs freely I can consider them, but I would not want to consider anything that resembles the original logo. The keyboard designs have become public domain but the logo is not!
I know logos are a no-go, but what if it just said "F62/F77 revival keyboard" on all sides in a nice font (maybe red ink)? It would be good to have the boxes marked for easy ID in storage, if printing doesn't add significantly to the cost. Otherwise, I guess most of us will have to do the old sharpie scrawl on them later.I think a marked box would be cool. This project is either going to be the start of many custom buckling spring projects. Or it could be a highly prized keyboard from the limited run of new kish's.Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji12.png)
They haven't gone up for order yet. Maybe 1-2 months away from order time?So there is plenty of time to get money and decide.
I'm very sorry for asking many questions, but can we know how flexibly we can custom layout?
For instance, is it possible to assign arrow keys to HJKL+Fn like vim?
119 keyboards' worth of interest so far :)
Given this project is likely going to involve ~$40,000+ I am going to be very careful that this lives up to the F62 / F77 name. The flippers are the big question mark. I have discussed recommended barrel and flipper materials with one of the Unicomp old timers. One of the early decisions I had to make was whether or not to electroplate the flippers to get them to be capacitive; they confirmed that the original flippers were not electroplated.
At this point I expect to do some testing for a week or so on the prototypes when they arrive (as well as some HD video and sound recordings with some nice XLR microphones), and then open up orders for a month or so. Now we are just waiting for the prototypes I ordered to arrive in hopefully 5-6 weeks (maybe a little longer).
Most likely going to order one, but will wait when reviews and comparisons go up first.119 keyboards' worth of interest so far :)
Given this project is likely going to involve ~$40,000+ I am going to be very careful that this lives up to the F62 / F77 name. The flippers are the big question mark. I have discussed recommended barrel and flipper materials with one of the Unicomp old timers. One of the early decisions I had to make was whether or not to electroplate the flippers to get them to be capacitive; they confirmed that the original flippers were not electroplated.
At this point I expect to do some testing for a week or so on the prototypes when they arrive (as well as some HD video and sound recordings with some nice XLR microphones), and then open up orders for a month or so. Now we are just waiting for the prototypes I ordered to arrive in hopefully 5-6 weeks (maybe a little longer).
If anyone is truly interested in owning a GREAT Model-F like keyboard that is fully customized and manufactured this year, then this is it.
The real horror of this is when I finally receive this baby and I come to the brutal realization that Cherry, Thorpie and every other membrane based keyboard in the world, will melt away in the presence of this F77 :o .
119 keyboards' worth of interest so far :)
Given this project is likely going to involve ~$40,000+ I am going to be very careful that this lives up to the F62 / F77 name. The flippers are the big question mark. I have discussed recommended barrel and flipper materials with one of the Unicomp old timers. One of the early decisions I had to make was whether or not to electroplate the flippers to get them to be capacitive; they confirmed that the original flippers were not electroplated.
At this point I expect to do some testing for a week or so on the prototypes when they arrive (as well as some HD video and sound recordings with some nice XLR microphones), and then open up orders for a month or so. Now we are just waiting for the prototypes I ordered to arrive in hopefully 5-6 weeks (maybe a little longer).
If anyone is truly interested in owning a GREAT Model-F like keyboard that is fully customized and manufactured this year, then this is it.
The real horror of this is when I finally receive this baby and I come to the brutal realization that Cherry, Thorpie and every other membrane based keyboard in the world, will melt away in the presence of this F77 :o .
Someone over on DT suggested doing a kickstarter campaign - including my reply here:
I want to first make whatever people order in the next month or two and make sure everything is good with that batch before doing a kickstarter campaign, which would take a couple months longer (I don't want to keep everyone waiting!). I could definitely use some help from the forums to get the word out on the kickstarter campaign.
The F62 and F77 top inner assembly prototypes have been made! They have not yet been powdercoated black.
(Attachment Link)
Thanks Elrick for the kind words.Wow these are looking great. Can't wait for the final result!
Here are some more prototype photos! The F62 split right shift and F77 split right shift prototype top inner assemblies have also been made.
These might even be the first metal Model F parts to come off the assembly line in 20+ years!
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Thanks Elrick for the kind words.
Here are some more prototype photos! The F62 split right shift and F77 split right shift prototype top inner assemblies have also been made.
These might even be the first metal Model F parts to come off the assembly line in 20+ years!
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as someone who recently discovered the beauty of Buckling spring, I'm quite interested depends on if I can manage to get the funds the time the GB starts. I have a question though, does the goal price $350 is for the complete keyboard or is there something I need to source myself?
Those look fantastic! Kinda like how I imagine a Model M or F would have looked back in the day, when the designers put the first prototype together, and management would have gotten all moist and excited about it!
The month should start after I have fully tested and made videos of the completed prototypes.
Thanks Elrick and U47!
Here are two more prototype photos showing a nice fit of the top and bottom inner assembly, which slide together like the original.
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Chief- thanks for your interest. I posted some photos of the prototype parts including the inner assembly and the PCBs which look great when light shines through them. I recommend looking through the thread for the photos and renderings!
doh it is an interest check at this point. No invoicing until I fully test the prototypes. You can change your mind since nothing is being ordered just yet.
I hope to deliver in December.
Yep they can be ordered with any layout that the barrels support. I will move the flippers and springs around. I will leave a notes section in the order form to request specific differences from a standard 1391401 layout, such as split right shift, 1u left shift, 1u backspace, num pad keys or ins/del/etc. and cursor keys for the extra keys on an F77, etc.
Well, first off, I'm used to using arrow keys with my right hand, so I'd want to activate a function layer with my left hand, not right. Second, I've done some experimentation with my natural keyboarding reach. When I'm at full speed, my left pinky already hits the far left edge of both ANSI shift keys. So I can safely shorten the left shift without having to make any typing adjustments. The third, admittedly minor, point is that this particular mod is possible without deviating from IBM's original design. So I can have the same layout on my original F62 and my F122s. Not that the F122 needs that extra function key, of course, but I may do it for consistency.Yep they can be ordered with any layout that the barrels support. I will move the flippers and springs around. I will leave a notes section in the order form to request specific differences from a standard 1391401 layout, such as split right shift, 1u left shift, 1u backspace, num pad keys or ins/del/etc. and cursor keys for the extra keys on an F77, etc.
I love that split right shift is an option. I get the ISO split shift thing, but if you're going to split one shift and not the other, why not the longer one?
Are we going to have to put these together ourselves?
I'm not lazy but I'm a little concerned about my competence :-)
Yep they come fully assembled, no extra cost!
Yep they come fully assembled, no extra cost!
Best news all day! 😀
Yep they come fully assembled, no extra cost!
Best news all day! 😀
EXACTLY, this is what every Geekhacker wants, a complete keyboard ready for connection into your PC.
Just like waiting for a 2015 BMW M6 G-Power Hurricane CS Ultimate, to be delivered to your front door 8) .
Something so rare and unique that it burns a hole in your eye-sockets the very minute they come into contact with it.....
I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.
Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set). If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.
Thanks Elrick - I expect to have these mostly assembled in China. It may be a good idea for me to also send the keys to China to be assembled. I will do the final testing though.
I think Elrick is understandably cautious, having been burnt in the past. But he speaks for many community members for sure.Thanks Elrick - I expect to have these mostly assembled in China. It may be a good idea for me to also send the keys to China to be assembled. I will do the final testing though.
The MOST important thing to remember here is to ALWAYS keep in contact here on Geekhack and/or DT because nothing is worse than not hearing anything for months about this Group Buy, then all hell breaks loose and the lynching party starts to form easily.
You have to at least post once a week in this forum on the progression of this venture because it gives no one any haste about spending their money and being in this Group Buy. BunnyLake is the current KING of Group Buys because he goes way overboard in assuring everyone that everything is in hand and running as expected. Even if difficulties spring up (because they always do) talking about it here on this forum is far better than keeping it all to yourself.
You will be surprised the good will you shall receive if you are honest and forthcoming about this whole Group Buy because people in turn will trust you fully without question. Just consider yourself a Captain of this Group Buy which is like a huge ship heading to a destination. If you are calm and collected the trip will be enjoyable and you shall have everyone running up to you asking 1000 questions, yet you answer them all with dignity and respect no matter what they ask.
Remember you set the tone for this whole venture and being a leader isn't easy, so ask yourself if you are up to the task before starting this because it will not be easy at all once it commences.
I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.
Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set). If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.
I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.
Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set). If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.
Fair warning, Unicomp is out of right shift in black blank. And they do not plan on getting more in stock ever.
I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.
Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set). If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.
Fair warning, Unicomp is out of right shift in black blank. And they do not plan on getting more in stock ever.
I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.
Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set). If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.
Fair warning, Unicomp is out of right shift in black blank. And they do not plan on getting more in stock ever.
Almost had a heart attack fortunately for the HHKB style right shift we won't need a standard right shift but it sucks for everyone else :(
Ideally I would be interested in a black blank set, but have heard that they no longer make them. :(
Next option might be a classic blank set or APL.
I must have missed it then. I could've swore it wasn't listed anymore. Too bad on the shift though.Ideally I would be interested in a black blank set, but have heard that they no longer make them. :(
Next option might be a classic blank set or APL.
They still have stock, just no ANSI right shift.
I must have missed it then. I could've swore it wasn't listed anymore. Too bad on the shift though.Ideally I would be interested in a black blank set, but have heard that they no longer make them. :(
Next option might be a classic blank set or APL.
They still have stock, just no ANSI right shift.
Is there a downside to dyeing a regular color right shift key black to complete the set? Why can these blank right shift keys not be produced any longer in black?
Well anyways, who would have imagined we are up to 146 preorders after about three months?
Here is another photo showing the 6-32 thread hole on the bottom inner assembly. A 6-32 screw will be used to ground the PCB against the bottom inner assembly.
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I think Unicomp still offers the APL set but a support rep said they no longer offer their limited edition F1 etc. front printing on the number row keys, as of my support ticket from two months ago (they also said they don't offer black key sets so I'm not sure if it is correct).I recently ordered a replica SSK keycap through the Unicomp website. The caps look fine apart from a little bit of flashing along the bottom edges which they didn't bother to remove, but which is pretty much only visible from directly above. Also, the F3 was cracked so they had to send me a new one. The replacement was free, but the dyesub legend looks slightly different from the others in the set when closely examined.
They said they do still offer the Industrial SSK blue keys (though in a slightly different shade of blue) and the SSK style number printing on the letter keys for the embedded num pad.
I'm interested in the original caps.
codingCPA - my custom styrofoam packaging is designed so that the springs will not be crushed and the keys will not be pressed in transit. The boxes will also be double walled, thick cardboard.looks like you've taken everything into consideration. really excited to see the final product. thanks again.
Anyone can also ship their cleaned keys to me so the F77/F62s arrive to you fully assembled.
Here is a re-post of the design rendering:
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codingCPA - my custom styrofoam packaging is designed so that the springs will not be crushed and the keys will not be pressed in transit. The boxes will also be double walled, thick cardboard.
Anyone can also ship their cleaned keys to me so the F77/F62s arrive to you fully assembled.
Here is a re-post of the design rendering:
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Did invoices already go out? I'm worried I may have missed that in my email- want to make sure I definitely don't miss out on this one!!! :thumb:
Thanks djkib - if you are out of the US it would save some funds if you could do some proxying in your region/country.
An update - I was just able to order 5 used 1391401s for those who prefer to order original used IBM keycaps over Unicomp caps. The cost will likely be about the same as the Unicomp caps. Please let me know if you are interested in ordering original used caps with your F77/F62.
I'm interested in the original caps.
Same here....... :thumb:
Nope no testing yet. I expect to receive the fully assembled prototypes in a few weeks, then I will fully test them.
Also I received the 5 1391401 Model M keyboards today to be used for keys for those who prefer original keycaps on their F62/F77.
Anyone who wants one to five Model M 1391401 keyboards without keys/stabilizers/the cable can have them for $30 each plus shipping, or $35 with the SDL to PS/2 cable. The recycler tested them but I am selling them as uncleaned/untested.
First come, first served with these keyboards.
Is there any chance I can buy some barrels and flippers on their own?He's said yes to this before. I think we'll be able to buy extras of any parts being created for this project, including the custom fit boxes!
The xwhatsit Model F USB controller is included/installed. Solenoids require the xwhatsit solenoid driver, currently available from DT member orihalcon. With this driver, the controller will support a solenoid to my knowledge.Ordering solenoid driver is in option? Or should we contact him directly if we want?
The xwhatsit Model F USB controller is included/installed. Solenoids require the xwhatsit solenoid driver, currently available from DT member orihalcon. With this driver, the controller will support a solenoid to my knowledge.Ordering solenoid driver is in option? Or should we contact him directly if we want?
So you will we be able to order the solenoid driver from you? And where can we source a solenoid?In my knowledge, almost all of keyboards from IBM DisplayWriter and DisplayTerminal have working solenoid.
hmm, now to source a solenoid...I once heard that xwhatsit saying sparkfun's is not good for the solenoid driver supplying 9vdc because its resistance is not enough to run it safely. And he also said its throw of 4mm is too much to run it without delay.
is this the correct solenoid? http://www.typewriters.com/1393901.html
or perhaps this? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015
Here's another photo just of the first production Model F barrels from the new mold (see my earlier post for the flippers).
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Here's another photo just of the first production Model F barrels from the new mold (see my earlier post for the flippers).
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I can't wait to hear some thoughts on the board once it's all put together in it's full glory.
I thought at the beginning this was just some keyboard nerds pipe dream. :p
Thanks all for the kind words!
At this point we can bring further economies of scale and potentially lower pricing only if there are 400+ orders. We are at just over 150 preorders right now. We would have to get to 400+ for further economies of scale to allow for additional price reductions (making the cases with die cast molds instead of CNC machining them one by one as is currently planned).
With the current total preorders, pricing will definitely stay at $325 (bring your own keys) with the option to order brand new Unicomp or used IBM keys (I will try to get a group discount).
Techno Trousers over on DT made this excellent point and I hope we can have a few volunteers to help: "Has anyone approached any of the Korean enthusiast boards with this? Those guys seen to always have a lot of disposable income, and I'd think a lot of them would want to get in on something truly unique like this. Shame I don't speak the language." So far just Firebolt on DT has volunteered.
Rowdy my intention is for these F77/F62 keyboards to be a "one time only" deal. Everyone will have a month to order them (after prototypes are fully tested and photographed) and then the window will close. It has been a ton of work this year for me and for the engineers, professionals, and GH/DT forum members that have helped along the way. This was certainly not a "one man" project.
I would definitely be open to anyone who wants to buy a number of these, wait a year or more, and then distribute them at cost or at a higher cost for a profit later (their choice). I'm sure as people start getting their F62s and F77s and posting photos after the order period closes there will be a lot more interest.
I was disappointed to have missed the original great find of the Kishsavers back in 2013/2014 and suggest anyone who's interested in trying one out buy one while they are still available. Given relatively few of these will be made compared to MX and other mechanical keyboards, I think they should at least hold their value or appreciate well into the future.
However I am interested in your suggestion to get some distributors involved, though they would need to sell these at a higher price to make a small profit I'm sure. Economies of scale from those extra units may push prices down if they order 250-300+ units.
Who are the main mechanical keyboard distributors? Does anyone have any contacts there?
my intention is for these F77/F62 keyboards to be a "one time only" deal.
I definitely do not have any contacts but in the US, mechanicalkeyboards.com and elitekeyboards come to mind.
Massdrop.com might be a possibility too? They seem like a great fit for a one-time-only production run, though I don't know anything about how they are to deal with from the vendor perspective.
They will likely be aluminum with colors close to the original off white or Industrial powdercoated paint, black, or another color (special order). I can also try to special order anodized/clear coat/non-powdercoated ones if you PM me ahead of time. They may cost a little more.
Ellipse if you decide that MassDrop is the best choice for this - please somehow work out a way to avoid their fullfilment center.There is precedent for this. The recent Planck buy is being fulfilled directly by Ortholinear keyboards. Jack has been in constant communication with the buyers every step of the way, and I have more confidence in the outcome than I've ever had from a Massdrop buy.
Unless you enjoy the idea of your blood, sweat, and tears being banged up in transit due to insufficient/careless packing.
dante - I will be personally testing and mailing each one ordered directly through my order form. They are also shipping in custom made styrofoam and a double-walled cardboard box.
What do you plan to use for the exterior coating or anodizing? Very ambitious project but very exciting at the same time. ^-^
Kola the exterior will be powdercoated with paint in something close to the original "off white" or Industrial Gray options. Anodizing may not happen or it may be a more costly option if you want it. I don't know the anodizing options - if anyone ordering an F62 or F77 is thinking of the anodizing option and has any preferences please let me know.
The factory is doing some pre-assembly testing of the prototype parts to make sure they fit together - the top/bottom inner assembly, barrels/flippers, and mylar sheet placement (the clear mylar sheet prevents the PCB from touching the steel bottom inner assembly, which could cause a capacitance issue). The foam and the case are not yet ready.
The prototype cases should be completed in 1-2 weeks hopefully and I expect to receive the prototype within 3-4 weeks from now. If a bunch of you hurry with sending payment in the first week after prototypes are fully tested, I may do them in two batches: all orders placed in the first week or two, and then all orders in the remaining two weeks. So the first batch may arrive by Christmas if we do that. Though this would not happen if there is not a big enough order batch to place after the first two weeks. I know there is a lot of hope to get these by Christmas :)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Kola the exterior will be powdercoated with paint in something close to the original "off white" or Industrial Gray options. Anodizing may not happen or it may be a more costly option if you want it. I don't know the anodizing options - if anyone ordering an F62 or F77 is thinking of the anodizing option and has any preferences please let me know.oh ****... so psyched for this!!!
The factory is doing some pre-assembly testing of the prototype parts to make sure they fit together - the top/bottom inner assembly, barrels/flippers, and mylar sheet placement (the clear mylar sheet prevents the PCB from touching the steel bottom inner assembly, which could cause a capacitance issue). The foam and the case are not yet ready.
The prototype cases should be completed in 1-2 weeks hopefully and I expect to receive the prototype within 3-4 weeks from now. If a bunch of you hurry with sending payment in the first week after prototypes are fully tested, I may do them in two batches: all orders placed in the first week or two, and then all orders in the remaining two weeks. So the first batch may arrive by Christmas if we do that. Though this would not happen if there is not a big enough order batch to place after the first two weeks. I know there is a lot of hope to get these by Christmas :)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
They will likely be aluminum with colors close to the original off white or Industrial powdercoated paint, black, or another color (special order). I can also try to special order anodized/clear coat/non-powdercoated ones if you PM me ahead of time. They may cost a little more.When you think is/will be the deadline to PM you for the special coloring order?
The prototype cases should be completed in 1-2 weeks hopefully and I expect to receive the prototype within 3-4 weeks from now. If a bunch of you hurry with sending payment in the first week after prototypes are fully tested, I may do them in two batches: all orders placed in the first week or two, and then all orders in the remaining two weeks. So the first batch may arrive by Christmas if we do that. Though this would not happen if there is not a big enough order batch to place after the first two weeks. I know there is a lot of hope to get these by Christmas :)
Probably a dumb question, but there won't be a way to have any arrow keys on the smaller model I'm assuming?
(wasn't sure if there might be a layered control scheme for that like HHKB or something?)
Probably a dumb question, but there won't be a way to have any arrow keys on the smaller model I'm assuming?
(wasn't sure if there might be a layered control scheme for that like HHKB or something?)
The xwhatsits controller allows for multiple layers, so you will be able to set it up in a fn layer if you want to.
Probably a dumb question, but there won't be a way to have any arrow keys on the smaller model I'm assuming?
(wasn't sure if there might be a layered control scheme for that like HHKB or something?)
The xwhatsits controller allows for multiple layers, so you will be able to set it up in a fn layer if you want to.
Wow. I honestly did not know that. I may consider the 62 instead of the 77 now.
The layout options are the same as the original, or you can choose an option for a split right shift, which means one or two barrels just for that option are in a slightly different place. This requires a separate top inner assembly. You can also buy both top inner assembly pieces if you would like the option to someday switch between regular right shift and split right shift.
The layout options are the same as the original, or you can choose an option for a split right shift, which means one or two barrels just for that option are in a slightly different place. This requires a separate top inner assembly. You can also buy both top inner assembly pieces if you would like the option to someday switch between regular right shift and split right shift.
I'm not understanding why this would need two separate top plates. Aren't the barrel locations the same just which ones are populated differ?
The layout options are the same as the original, or you can choose an option for a split right shift, which means one or two barrels just for that option are in a slightly different place. This requires a separate top inner assembly. You can also buy both top inner assembly pieces if you would like the option to someday switch between regular right shift and split right shift.
I'm not understanding why this would need two separate top plates. Aren't the barrel locations the same just which ones are populated differ?
It has to do with the offset of where the barrels are. With the usual split the one unit and the other would be backwards.
Unfortunately no group buy on the HHKB key, but you can buy a 3D printed one from Shapeways. Not sure if anyone has tested one: http://www.shapeways.com/product/YMFXWFRAK/ibm-model-m-keycap-1-75-non-stepped-v2
Any chance I could buy just a model F sized spring? I have a bad one on my current Model F and don't really like the kishaver form, but do need a new spring.Yes, you can. He said we can order any kinda extra parts that used in the boards' assembly.
Vizir I do not believe so - can anyone confirm if they have been able to add a solenoid to their original Kishsaver F62?
Vizir I do not believe so - can anyone confirm if they have been able to add a solenoid to their original Kishsaver F62?It had completely skipped my mind, and when your question didn't get a proper reply on DT, I thought I'd ask here.
Yes, you can. He said we can order any kinda extra parts that used in the boards' assembly.So what do I have to do to get one of these? I've never done a group buy or anything like that before.
a lot of people (including myself) love the 60% format and kishsaver is the only model f that has this. the F77 which is also part of this gb is pretty similar to the ssk anyways (only lacks the F row) so you could go for one of those.Yes, you can. He said we can order any kinda extra parts that used in the boards' assembly.So what do I have to do to get one of these? I've never done a group buy or anything like that before.
On another note, why new kishavers? why not new SSK's with the Model F assembly? The bezel just about makes a kishaver the size of a Model M SSK, anyway.
This gb hasn't started yet. Ask ellipse if you are worried about the way to buy.Yes, you can. He said we can order any kinda extra parts that used in the boards' assembly.So what do I have to do to get one of these? I've never done a group buy or anything like that before.
Regarding black keys from Unicomp, a note from 0100010 over on DT: Unicomp still has blank black sets, just missing Right Shift. Though with the HHKB-ish layout with this F62, custom order a set with an additional black caps lock key [and a 1u black key] and you'd be set.
I want to order a black blank keyset for F62 with 2 capslocks then.
You mean, if we want to order black blanks, we should order them from Unicomp personally and send them to you, right?
--Melvang
A guy on DT said Unicomp has some stock of black blank capslock. So we can use them instead of genuine right shift if we prefer HHKBish right shift.
Yep ctm this project is on the higher end of custom keyboards because it is lots of metal and I had to pay for all the tooling, CNC milling and molds. Another forum member pointed out that the Cherry MX and other custom keyboard projects have lower production costs as the individual key mechanisms are pre-made, unlike the Model F components.
In a month or so I do suggest buying one F62 or F77 if you want one because these are going out of production after the order period of about a month, and the price will be inevitably inflated after that - you will only be able to find one of these, if at all, from people buying extras to keep NIB and maybe sell years later (which I encourage as every order helps ensure the price stays at $325 as it is now!). We are already at 170+ preorders.
Yep ctm this project is on the higher end of custom keyboards because it is lots of metal and I had to pay for all the tooling, CNC milling and molds. Another forum member pointed out that the Cherry MX and other custom keyboard projects have lower production costs as the individual key mechanisms are pre-made, unlike the Model F components.
In a month or so I do suggest buying one F62 or F77 if you want one because these are going out of production after the order period of about a month, and the price will be inevitably inflated after that - you will only be able to find one of these, if at all, from people buying extras to keep NIB and maybe sell years later (which I encourage as every order helps ensure the price stays at $325 as it is now!). We are already at 170+ preorders.
Exactly, this requires a lot of effort to happen and you've went beyond what Unicomp would ever do.
I for one will be buying the F77 at the lowest price when it's finally released by you Ellipse, so you can count on that order for sure on being paid for up front. Knew this would be a ONE time only production of perhaps the rarest keyboard that will ever be made, for us keyboard addicts.
ALWAYS keep us informed of when you'll need the final money for these keyboards 8) .
ok Elrick - the order form should be opened by next Friday at the earliest, after I receive and test the prototypes.
There was a question over on DT regarding birthdate labels. I will include labels with birthdates and serial numbers. They will be similar to the original silver-colored 4704 labels but with no logo.
Soon after the prototypes arrive and have been photographed/tested, the greatest help that can be offered is in getting the word out on these keyboards and maybe getting distributors and the press/bloggers interested in these keyboards. This is probably the most important part to the success of this project. If anyone has expertise or can offer their help in any of those fields please do chat with me over PM.
Soon after the prototypes arrive and have been photographed/tested, the greatest help that can be offered is in getting the word out on these keyboards and maybe getting distributors and the press/bloggers interested in these keyboards. This is probably the most important part to the success of this project.
Soon after the prototypes arrive and have been photographed/tested, the greatest help that can be offered is in getting the word out on these keyboards and maybe getting distributors and the press/bloggers interested in these keyboards. This is probably the most important part to the success of this project.
Once you post completed keyboard pictures ready for shipment, you shall see an avalanche of orders my friend. Simply because these keyboards are unique in this world with no other input device giving that exact same feel and operation as a F62/F77 keyboard.
Also you will build these keyboards to last for someone's actual life meaning that if an 18 year old youngster buys it now, 80 years into the future the Ellipse keyboard will still keep on typing perfectly. I shall never be giving up on keyboards no matter what other fancy tech develops into the future.
A Model-F is something you hold onto for life and treasure it immensely, especially if it's an Ellipse :thumb: .
And yes livingspeedbump the $325 price has been finalized for the "bring your own keys" crowd. The cost of keys will be passed along from whatever Unicomp charges, which is about $25 and up depending on what options you would like (split shift, black blank keys, APL keys, RGB modifiers, F1 etc. front printing on the numbered caps, etc.). I will do a group buy to ship and install all the keys for those interested (factory installation in China will be no extra charge). I also have 5 sets of original used Model M keys available and I hope to get more if there is demand for it.
And yes livingspeedbump the $325 price has been finalized for the "bring your own keys" crowd. The cost of keys will be passed along from whatever Unicomp charges, which is about $25 and up depending on what options you would like (split shift, black blank keys, APL keys, RGB modifiers, F1 etc. front printing on the numbered caps, etc.). I will do a group buy to ship and install all the keys for those interested (factory installation in China will be no extra charge). I also have 5 sets of original used Model M keys available and I hope to get more if there is demand for it.
Very good news!! Count me as a definite :thumb:
And yes livingspeedbump the $325 price has been finalized for the "bring your own keys" crowd. The cost of keys will be passed along from whatever Unicomp charges, which is about $25 and up depending on what options you would like (split shift, black blank keys, APL keys, RGB modifiers, F1 etc. front printing on the numbered caps, etc.). I will do a group buy to ship and install all the keys for those interested (factory installation in China will be no extra charge). I also have 5 sets of original used Model M keys available and I hope to get more if there is demand for it.
Thanks for the kind words Elrick! I do hope that these keyboards survive the test of time. So many products people buy today develop issues in a few months' or years' time and are meant to be disposed of; it is great to be able to buy something made today that you can use every day and it will be there for you to use 10, 20, 30 years from now. I hope this F77/F62 project will be like that. I do not want to compromise a project like this by lowering standards and cutting corners to make it inferior to an original because it is something I want to be able to use and something that is on par with my original Model F keyboards that I use daily - that is why I will end up spending $50,000 or more on this project for materials and production processes that meet or exceed original standards and tolerances, including lots of metal!
ryahirv I will post a link on the forums right after the order forms open up, so those on the forums will be first to know about it. I expect to assign serial numbers just about in the sequence of receiving the orders.
And yes livingspeedbump the $325 price has been finalized for the "bring your own keys" crowd. The cost of keys will be passed along from whatever Unicomp charges, which is about $25 and up depending on what options you would like (split shift, black blank keys, APL keys, RGB modifiers, F1 etc. front printing on the numbered caps, etc.). I will do a group buy to ship and install all the keys for those interested (factory installation in China will be no extra charge). I also have 5 sets of original used Model M keys available and I hope to get more if there is demand for it.
ryahirv I will post a link on the forums right after the order forms open up, so those on the forums will be first to know about it. I expect to assign serial numbers just about in the sequence of receiving the orders.
Someone let CPT know we've got "machining porn" in here!
Someone let CPT know we've got "machining porn" in here!
Oh man it's my favorite kind
What is it and how does it affect the board?As you say, a solenoid is activeted each key press and gives us clicky feedback. To run them in boards Ellipse try to manufacture, you need solenoid driver, which is available from orihalcon a member of both GH and DT. In my knowledge solenoids are not originated in original F62/77 and 107, but in more old style of keyboards like beamsprings. And they have buzzer instead.
The short answer on the rarity of the IBM 4704 Model F keyboards is they were made for banking. Due to the nature of banking equipment, it is almost always destroyed when taken out of service. I believe there are fewer than 200 of the 62 key "kishsaver" keyboards remaining, and possibly even fewer of the 77 and 88(?) key models. A lot of keyboard enthusiasts prefer 60% keyboards, hence all the hype for Kishsavers, which are the only Model F keyboards in that form factor.
Let's discuss keyboard feet: what do people want to order? Please list product links like those from McMaster-Carr or the like.
As one option I will offer some McMaster Carr cork feet.
Would people want screwed on bumper bottoms like these: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rubber-bumpers/=zr655b (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rubber-bumpers/=zr655b) These would probably only work for the upper 2 due to the length of the threads. Would people want all 4 drilled or just 2?
Xwhatsit makes it possible to assign any function to any physical key.
And this product will support any style of layout which is supported in original F62/77 according to Ellipse.
After reading the interview on reddit.. I think I may end up getting both the kishsaver and f77 :)
After reading the interview on reddit.. I think I may end up getting both the kishsaver and f77 :)
After reading the interview on reddit.. I think I may end up getting both the kishsaver and f77 :)
Is this the one?:
http://roastpotatoes.github.io/news/2015/11/11/the-kishsaver-f62-and-f77-revival-project/
After reading the interview on reddit.. I think I may end up getting both the kishsaver and f77 :)
Is this the one?:
http://roastpotatoes.github.io/news/2015/11/11/the-kishsaver-f62-and-f77-revival-project/
ok I will look into having two holes where you can add a screwed-on bumper - I agree there is not enough room for it towards the "near side bottom" of the keyboard. So you will be able to add that kind or adhesive bumpers to the bottom.
Any other recommendations besides these?
Cork+rubber low profile bumper - http://www.mcmaster.com/#8771k43/=zrq7q3
Round screw-on bumper - http://www.mcmaster.com/#9540k781/=zrqima
Conical screw-on bumper - http://www.mcmaster.com/#9540k39/=zrqkdy
Dome adhesive backed - http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k73/=zrqlnr
Square low profile adhesive backed - http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k15/=zrqmeb
Round low profile adhesive backed - http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k22/=zrqnia
The factory also set the springs into production and confirmed that they can make the springs to the original IBM tolerance specifications which are about 3x as tight as current Unicomp specifications according to someone I spoke with. This means that the springs will have a slightly more even feel to them like the originals.
ok I will look into having two holes where you can add a screwed-on bumper - I agree there is not enough room for it towards the "near side bottom" of the keyboard. So you will be able to add that kind or adhesive bumpers to the bottom.
Dome adhesive backed - http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k73/=zrqlnr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k73/=zrqlnr)
Round low profile adhesive backed - http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k22/=zrqnia (http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k22/=zrqnia)
The short answer on the rarity of the IBM 4704 Model F keyboards is they were made for banking. Due to the nature of banking equipment, it is almost always destroyed when taken out of service. I believe there are fewer than 200 of the 62 key "kishsaver" keyboards remaining, and possibly even fewer of the 77 and 88(?) key models. A lot of keyboard enthusiasts prefer 60% keyboards, hence all the hype for Kishsavers, which are the only Model F keyboards in that form factor.
Thanks muffinbottoms for the interest.
For the HHKB style layout please look up a photo of a HHKB. The biggest change is to imagine the right shift key replaced with a caps lock key and a regular key the size of a letter - some prefer this layout but it requires a separate production as the barrels need to be moved a little in the right shift area.
Unicomp has black blanks but does not have right shift black blank keys. 3d printing is only required if you want your HHKB style keyboard to have a non-stepped shift key (one that does not look like a caps lock key).
I have not decided on kickstarter yet. I prefer direct orders. I may do kickstarter for this run as an optional choice just to get more interest before the orders close. Yes you can pay by credit card. You do not need to create a PayPal acct.
ok I will look into having two holes where you can add a screwed-on bumper - I agree there is not enough room for it towards the "near side bottom" of the keyboard. So you will be able to add that kind or adhesive bumpers to the bottom.
Any other recommendations besides these?
Cork+rubber low profile bumper - http://www.mcmaster.com/#8771k43/=zrq7q3
Round screw-on bumper - http://www.mcmaster.com/#9540k781/=zrqima
Conical screw-on bumper - http://www.mcmaster.com/#9540k39/=zrqkdy
Dome adhesive backed - http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k73/=zrqlnr
Square low profile adhesive backed - http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k15/=zrqmeb
Round low profile adhesive backed - http://www.mcmaster.com/#95495k22/=zrqnia
The factory also set the springs into production and confirmed that they can make the springs to the original IBM tolerance specifications which are about 3x as tight as current Unicomp specifications according to someone I spoke with. This means that the springs will have a slightly more even feel to them like the originals.
What is it and how does it affect the board?As you say, a solenoid is activeted each key press and gives us clicky feedback. To run them in boards Ellipse try to manufacture, you need solenoid driver, which is available from orihalcon a member of both GH and DT. In my knowledge solenoids are not originated in original F62/77 and 107, but in more old style of keyboards like beamsprings. And they have buzzer instead.
The short answer on the rarity of the IBM 4704 Model F keyboards is they were made for banking. Due to the nature of banking equipment, it is almost always destroyed when taken out of service. I believe there are fewer than 200 of the 62 key "kishsaver" keyboards remaining, and possibly even fewer of the 77 and 88(?) key models. A lot of keyboard enthusiasts prefer 60% keyboards, hence all the hype for Kishsavers, which are the only Model F keyboards in that form factor.
There are only two known specimens of the 77 key in the keyboard community.
Some custom colors requested so far (remember to specify a specific Pantone color when making your request - they can't work with RAL colors): Purple, Porcelain white, white, white ivory, semi-gloss black, silver, Hellgrau, pink, gunmetal gray, Hunter green, red, blue, mat dark gray
The final major piece of the project is currently in production. The factory sent me some photos of the aluminum case prototypes in the CNC milling machine. In the first photo you can sort of recognize the keyboard's distinctive "pencil holder" bar. CNC milled prototypes are very expensive - they essentially take a block of solid aluminum and go inch by inch with drills and other tools to remove a bit of aluminum at a time.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Muffin - Tinnie did not find any F77s, just some F62s and F50s to my knowledge. Parak and I are the only known DT/GH members who have an original F77.
For those who want to pay extra for a custom powdercoated color (i.e. any color besides "off white", black, and gray) please coordinate with others who want just about the same color to minimize additional costs. I recommend posting what color you'd like and then seeing what other interest there is. For example, if you wanted a blue color, you would need to coordinate which specific Pantone color you'd like (you can go to a hardware store and ask to see their Pantone color swatches). I estimate each extra color will involve splitting $50 to $100 in additional costs among everyone who wants that color.
Some custom colors requested so far (remember to specify a specific Pantone color when making your request - they can't work with RAL colors): Purple, Porcelain white, white, white ivory, semi-gloss black, silver, Hellgrau, pink, gunmetal gray, Hunter green, red, blue, mat dark gray
I... um... kind of have ideas to bring mine to an airbrush artist. It will probably be the opposite of classy.
Yep raw can be an option - pls note it on the order form. Not sure how quickly untreated aluminum rusts though.
Yep raw can be an option - pls note it on the order form. Not sure how quickly untreated aluminum rusts though.
Don't worry it will take some time for untreated Aluminum to start rusting (depends on location and the amount of humidity) and when it does it will look like white powder.
Maybe he might want the casing to look like a "Rat Rod", something evil and obscene 8) .
Yep raw can be an option - pls note it on the order form. Not sure how quickly untreated aluminum rusts though.
Cool, a different thinker here must be a young one ;) .
Hope it all goes as you want it too because after all, this will be your own keyboard to customize to your own heart's desire.
*assuming I can actually decide which one to get and not end up ordering both versions.
Yep raw can be an option - pls note it on the order form. Not sure how quickly untreated aluminum rusts though.
Aluminum oxidizes very, very quickly. Almost instantly. Fortunately, this thin layer of aluminum oxide is mostly unnoticeable, harder, and very thin. It only really matters if you wanted something like polished aluminum, which will "fog" and won't keep its shine.
Now aluminum can absolutely destructively corrode, but usually requires some other interaction, like a different material and salt (galvanic corrosion). I do not believe there would be any issues arising in this case.
... but you may know it as transparent aluminum.Show Image(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/13/d47e1a3c1ec80ba7b14e3304d66a57cd.jpg)
It could be another week or two until I receive the prototypes - still waiting on some more things for the factory to do (powdercoating, inner foam, outside foam, spring attachment to the flippers, assembly/test fittings).
Yes you can order extra springs when the time comes - pricing is not yet finalized for the accessories but the keyboards' pricing is finalized at $325.
No, $325 for the keyboard without keycaps. Additional $25 approx for the keycaps from unicomp.It could be another week or two until I receive the prototypes - still waiting on some more things for the factory to do (powdercoating, inner foam, outside foam, spring attachment to the flippers, assembly/test fittings).
Yes you can order extra springs when the time comes - pricing is not yet finalized for the accessories but the keyboards' pricing is finalized at $325.
Does that price include unicomp keycaps?
What USB cable lengths are preferred for those who signed the interest form? I was thinking 10 feet, which is really 9 feet as part of the cable is routed inside the F77/F62 keyboard. People can use their own cable but it doesn't cost much to have the preferred cable already configured.
Yep you can remove the micro USB cable. The keyboard opens with a regular phillips head screwdriver.
What USB cable lengths are preferred for those who signed the interest form? I was thinking 10 feet, which is really 9 feet as part of the cable is routed inside the F77/F62 keyboard. People can use their own cable but it doesn't cost much to have the preferred cable already configured.
Damn... I want this so bad... tell me where to throw my money!!!Invoice hasn't started yet.
Damn... I want this so bad... tell me where to throw my money!!!Invoice hasn't started yet.
Just back from out of town - I didn't miss the invoice did I?
We are still waiting on the powdercoating of the cases, the inner foam, outside foam/box, and flipper/spring assembly. I am now hoping for prototype delivery by the end of the month (a bit delayed unfortunately). I have arranged for a few sample barrels/flippers to be mailed in advance of the prototypes; they should arrive in a week or so. Then I can post some higher resolution photos.
We are still waiting on the powdercoating of the cases, the inner foam, outside foam/box, and flipper/spring assembly. I am now hoping for prototype delivery by the end of the month (a bit delayed unfortunately). I have arranged for a few sample barrels/flippers to be mailed in advance of the prototypes; they should arrive in a week or so. Then I can post some higher resolution photos.
Hey, more time for me to save (and spend on other things)!
No one can afford to miss out on owning this wonder because anyone can own a Kmac model but an Ellipse Keyboard, now that shall go down in history as the rarest of them all.
I think you meant the opposite of "without haste".We are still waiting on the powdercoating of the cases, the inner foam, outside foam/box, and flipper/spring assembly. I am now hoping for prototype delivery by the end of the month (a bit delayed unfortunately). I have arranged for a few sample barrels/flippers to be mailed in advance of the prototypes; they should arrive in a week or so. Then I can post some higher resolution photos.
Hey, more time for me to save (and spend on other things)!
That's the Geekhack spirit, every extra moment helps to fully charge our wallets so when this GB finally drops everyone shall jump on some keyboards without haste 8) .
No one can afford to miss out on owning this wonder because anyone can own a Kmac model but an Ellipse Keyboard, now that shall go down in history as the rarest of them all.
I think you meant the opposite of "without haste".
Never tried capacitive buckling spring....can anyone give me some info on how they feel? Are they both tactile and clicky?
Never tried capacitive buckling spring....can anyone give me some info on how they feel? Are they both tactile and clicky?It's right about 65 grams in weight, with a big tactile bump. To me the closest equivalent would be 65 gram ergo Clears. But as said above, it makes a huge amount of clatter when you're going full speed, which I love too.
Never tried capacitive buckling spring....can anyone give me some info on how they feel? Are they both tactile and clicky?It's right about 65 grams in weight, with a big tactile bump. To me the closest equivalent would be 65 gram ergo Clears. But as said above, it makes a huge amount of clatter when you're going full speed, which I love too.
I have a MX blue board and a MX green on switch tester. I also tried Unicomp Model M of a friend's. Though they are all clicky switches, they are very different. I haven't tried Model F capacitive spring but I don't think they will be similar to Cherry clicky.Never tried capacitive buckling spring....can anyone give me some info on how they feel? Are they both tactile and clicky?
They are loud as hell and do have a sort of bump to them from what I remember lol I haven't touched one in a looooong time
I haven't used many MX switches but I'd say it's closest to either blue or greens :s
I have a MX blue board and a MX green on switch tester. I also tried Unicomp Model M of a friend's. Though they are all clicky switches, they are very different. I haven't tried Model F capacitive spring but I don't think they will be similar to Cherry clicky.Never tried capacitive buckling spring....can anyone give me some info on how they feel? Are they both tactile and clicky?
They are loud as hell and do have a sort of bump to them from what I remember lol I haven't touched one in a looooong time
I haven't used many MX switches but I'd say it's closest to either blue or greens :s
Model F is like Model M but noticeably more crisp and a little higher in pitch.
Cherry MX switches don't compare at all to buckling springs; I don't understand why people try to compare the two.
Model F is like Model M but noticeably more crisp and a little higher in pitch.
Cherry MX switches don't compare at all to buckling springs; I don't understand why people try to compare the two.
It's the youngsters here who only know about MX switches and nothing else. You can't blame them in making comparisons with that famous German designed switch because that's all they know, I suspect as they all grow old they will encounter other switches that will elevate their opinions somewhat.
When they purchase an Ellipse keyboard then all bets are off, they will become firm Model-F addicts after experiencing this keyboard 8) .
Model F is like Model M but noticeably more crisp and a little higher in pitch.
Cherry MX switches don't compare at all to buckling springs; I don't understand why people try to compare the two.
It's the youngsters here who only know about MX switches and nothing else. You can't blame them in making comparisons with that famous German designed switch because that's all they know, I suspect as they all grow old they will encounter other switches that will elevate their opinions somewhat.
When they purchase an Ellipse keyboard then all bets are off, they will become firm Model-F addicts after experiencing this keyboard 8) .
I mean I've used both
the sound is just a lot louder and it's like...tingy I never said identical though but it's the closest MX switches I've used
Just helps with getting an idea that's all just trying to help :o
and I don't know about becoming an addict but it will be fun typing on one when I'm not playing games :3
Backing off the feel a bit I'd be more interested in knowing if anyone does actually play games like WoW or CS:GO with model Fs and Ms and if they like it
last game I played with one was Oregon trail lmao i'm not that old (26) but we had a XT in my class room in 2nd grade
everyone wanted to use the old XT because it had Oregon trail and not like Mathblaster or what ever the hell it was on the newer one Lol
No one can afford to miss out on owning this wonder because anyone can own a Kmac model but an Ellipse Keyboard, now that shall go down in history as the rarest of them all.
Damn Elrick, did you buy shares in this GB or something ;) Seriously though I cannot wait!
Elrick has a way with words that inspires the masses. Maybe it's because I picture him sounding just like the great Paul Hogan, or maybe it's his sheer eloquence and obvious passion for quality keyboards and keycaps, but when Elrick posts, I shed a tear.No one can afford to miss out on owning this wonder because anyone can own a Kmac model but an Ellipse Keyboard, now that shall go down in history as the rarest of them all.
Damn Elrick, did you buy shares in this GB or something ;) Seriously though I cannot wait!
Nah dude, the explanation is right under his name "hype master" haha. He is the master of hyping things
MoreNo one can afford to miss out on owning this wonder because anyone can own a Kmac model but an Ellipse Keyboard, now that shall go down in history as the rarest of them all.
Damn Elrick, did you buy shares in this GB or something ;) Seriously though I cannot wait!
Nah dude, the explanation is right under his name "hype master" haha. He is the master of hyping things
Elrick has a way with words that inspires the masses. Maybe it's because I picture him sounding just like the great Paul Hogan, or maybe it's his sheer eloquence and obvious passion for quality keyboards and keycaps, but when Elrick posts, I shed a tear.
GB leaders all around the globe fall to their knees and pray nightly that Elrick will take a liking to their projects, because once Elrick gets involved it's an express train right to MOQ town, baby!
See what I did there? I just hyped Elrick.
Nah dude, the explanation is right under his name "hype master" haha. He is the master of hyping things
Backing off the feel a bit I'd be more interested in knowing if anyone does actually play games like WoW or CS:GO with model Fs and Ms and if they like it
last game I played with one was Oregon trail lmao i'm not that old (26) but we had a XT in my class room in 2nd grade
everyone wanted to use the old XT because it had Oregon trail and not like Mathblaster or what ever the hell it was on the newer one Lol
Backing off the feel a bit I'd be more interested in knowing if anyone does actually play games like WoW or CS:GO with model Fs and Ms and if they like it
[...]
Backing off the feel a bit I'd be more interested in knowing if anyone does actually play games like WoW or CS:GO with model Fs and Ms and if they like it
last game I played with one was Oregon trail lmao i'm not that old (26) but we had a XT in my class room in 2nd grade
everyone wanted to use the old XT because it had Oregon trail and not like Mathblaster or what ever the hell it was on the newer one Lol
What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?
Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?
What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?Check my signature for a link to my SSK rubber band mod. I've got some high quality audio samples in that post so you can hear the result.
Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?
What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?
Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?
What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?
Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?
I have found that no two Model F keyboards of mine sound or feel the same (I have several dozen F's and M's in my collection). The different foam (and its state of degradation) and spring materials/tensions and slight variations in inner assembly "sandwich" compression between units probably contribute to these differences. Some are quieter/mushier while others are crisp and/or reverberant.
What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?fundamentally you need to reduce the intensity of vibrations by reducing the power directly (typing slower), spreading out the energy across more time (lower power) or by spreading out the same power across a larger frequency band to make it "seem" quieter.
Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?
What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?
Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?
I wonder if a very thin layer of rubber paint on the inside of the barrels might reduce the noise made by the spring smacking against the barrels.
I wonder if a very thin layer of rubber paint on the inside of the barrels might reduce the noise made by the spring smacking against the barrels.
The GLORY of the Buckling Spring is it's SOUND when used, why try to muffle it and make it sound like another boring Cherry Switch Keyboard?
Christ sake, we now have a whole generation wanting to make every keyboard sound like either a limp Thorpie or a weak Cherry, what's wrong with you lot......... >:D
I wonder if a very thin layer of rubber paint on the inside of the barrels might reduce the noise made by the spring smacking against the barrels.
The GLORY of the Buckling Spring is it's SOUND when used, why try to muffle it and make it sound like another boring Cherry Switch Keyboard?
Christ sake, we now have a whole generation wanting to make every keyboard sound like either a limp Thorpie or a weak Cherry, what's wrong with you lot......... >:D
I wonder if a very thin layer of rubber paint on the inside of the barrels might reduce the noise made by the spring smacking against the barrels.
The GLORY of the Buckling Spring is it's SOUND when used, why try to muffle it and make it sound like another boring Cherry Switch Keyboard?
Christ sake, we now have a whole generation wanting to make every keyboard sound like either a limp Thorpie or a weak Cherry, what's wrong with you lot......... >:D
+1
The noise is part of the reason why we want these keyboards, right?
I wonder if a very thin layer of rubber paint on the inside of the barrels might reduce the noise made by the spring smacking against the barrels.
The GLORY of the Buckling Spring is it's SOUND when used, why try to muffle it and make it sound like another boring Cherry Switch Keyboard?
Christ sake, we now have a whole generation wanting to make every keyboard sound like either a limp Thorpie or a weak Cherry, what's wrong with you lot......... >:D
+1
The noise is part of the reason why we want these keyboards, right?
What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?
Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?
I wonder if a very thin layer of rubber paint on the inside of the barrels might reduce the noise made by the spring smacking against the barrels.
I was just offering a suggestion for ellipse's question. I love my clickys.
I was just offering a suggestion for ellipse's question. I love my clickys.
Damn straight boy, you want BS then you have to love the Click, nothing else compares or is even within the same hemisphere of this unique switch.
PLUS this shall be the ONLY manufactured example giving us addicts the REAL experience of this fantastic keyboard, so don't ever slip into the pathetic darkness of being another 'quiet person'. Live LARGE and don't give a sh1t about anyone else in this world.
This keyboard is for those that appreciate that TRUE mechanical keyboard without equal and EVERYONE shall hear this perfection, when it's plugged into your PC 8) .
I was just offering a suggestion for ellipse's question. I love my clickys.
Damn straight boy, you want BS then you have to love the Click, nothing else compares or is even within the same hemisphere of this unique switch.
PLUS this shall be the ONLY manufactured example giving us addicts the REAL experience of this fantastic keyboard, so don't ever slip into the pathetic darkness of being another 'quiet person'. Live LARGE and don't give a sh1t about anyone else in this world.
This keyboard is for those that appreciate that TRUE mechanical keyboard without equal and EVERYONE shall hear this perfection, when it's plugged into your PC 8) .
I see why you call yourself the hype master...
Some more sad news for us collectors - one of my recycler contacts seems to have had a whole lot of original 4704 equipment in one of their warehouses and discarded everything - amazingly this was just a couple months after I offered to buy it all from them.
Some more sad news for us collectors - one of my recycler contacts seems to have had a whole lot of original 4704 equipment in one of their warehouses and discarded everything - amazingly this was just a couple months after I offered to buy it all from them.
Some more sad news for us collectors - one of my recycler contacts seems to have had a whole lot of original 4704 equipment in one of their warehouses and discarded everything - amazingly this was just a couple months after I offered to buy it all from them.
How does this happen, are they not interested in making money! :(
Some more sad news for us collectors - one of my recycler contacts seems to have had a whole lot of original 4704 equipment in one of their warehouses and discarded everything - amazingly this was just a couple months after I offered to buy it all from them.
How does this happen, are they not interested in making money! :(
They may have been told by higher-ups to destroy them.
I remember once I worked at a place that always destroyed out-of-season stock. When I asked if I could have something that was being tossed out, the manager said no and that I could get in trouble if I take it.
It's a waste, I know, but it's still company property even to the trash can.
No worries Elrick these F62/F77 keyboards will not be modified.
I see why you call yourself the hype master...
I see why you call yourself the hype master...
You know what's really hilarious, I can't label myself as anything here on GH - it's the ones running this show that handed me this label >:D .
Prefer to be another faceless keyboard collector and nothing else........
Still no new updates - the factory is taking longer than expected to wrap up the prototypes: final case powdercoating, inner foam, outer foam, box, and assembly are still on their to do list.
Ellipse- are you still planning to offer in-person testing of the prototypes in NYC?
I prefer something like the Lenovo or Dell notebook configuration page where you can pick either a wizard or a list and then see photos and make selections of what you want, as opposed to looking around a site and clicking "add to cart" for various pieces. I may just use PayPal's option but I need to look more into this.
Major update: The sample barrels, springs and flippers have arrived! They all appear to be very good quality and the correct materials for this project.
After some brief testing the flippers work! This is a major relief that the plastic might not prove correct. The new flippers convey key presses firmly and accurately as well as the originals, from my initial testing (of course extensive testing will be done after the full prototypes arrive). The new springs are also excellent and require the same amount of force to buckle as original Model F springs. They fit on the flippers well.
Unfortunately the barrels will need a few 0.1 mm adjustments in the molds before they are excellent (the insides of the new barrels require a little more room to match the originals). I filed down one sample barrel 0.1 mm in the needed areas to correct this issue and the new barrel is just as smooth in operation as the originals. This will likely cause a delay in the project unfortunately.
To show how similar my units are to the originals, in the photos I have included a mix of original barrels/flippers/springs as well as the reproductions that arrived today.
Can you tell which ones in the photos are originals and which ones are the new ones?
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How badly would you figure the springs could rust if left to the elements? I happen to know too well how nasty a Model M spring'll rust
I'm always good on delays if it means the board will be perfect.
(And some time for fattening the wallet.)
I'm always good on delays if it means the board will be perfect.
(And some time for fattening the wallet.)
Couldnt agree more! No reason to pay as much attention to detail as you have and let some silly little thing mess it up.
I'm always good on delays if it means the board will be perfect.
(And some time for fattening the wallet.)
I'm always good on delays if it means the board will be perfect.
(And some time for fattening the wallet.)
"A delayed keyboard is eventually good, a rushed keyboard is forever bad" - Shigeru Miyamoto
I'm always good on delays if it means the board will be perfect.
(And some time for fattening the wallet.)
"A delayed keyboard is eventually good, a rushed keyboard is forever bad" - Shigeru Miyamoto
Shigs said that?
Pretty sure either was Gandhi
Given the factory delays and the need to make adjustments to the injection molds for the barrels, we are probably about 2-4 weeks away from the completed prototypes and the opening of orders. There is a lot more interest than I had expected - we recently made it to 200+ preorders! I was hoping for an earlier date to open the order form if there were no issues but I want to make sure that even the prototypes are great before accepting orders.
Are there one or more writers out there who can volunteer some of their time to help the project?
One of the final steps will be to help write a brief instruction manual, FAQs, something for the web site to introduce/summarize the project for those who may not be as familiar with the project, and anything else you think would be worthwhile (maybe a brief overview of buckling spring keyboards). xwhatsit's Model F USB manual is probably recommended reading too. I don't want to take anything already written though unless the author agrees to it.
Given the factory delays and the need to make adjustments to the injection molds for the barrels, we are probably about 2-4 weeks away from the completed prototypes and the opening of orders. There is a lot more interest than I had expected - we recently made it to 200+ preorders! I was hoping for an earlier date to open the order form if there were no issues but I want to make sure that even the prototypes are great before accepting orders.
Given the factory delays and the need to make adjustments to the injection molds for the barrels, we are probably about 2-4 weeks away from the completed prototypes and the opening of orders. There is a lot more interest than I had expected - we recently made it to 200+ preorders! I was hoping for an earlier date to open the order form if there were no issues but I want to make sure that even the prototypes are great before accepting orders.
Knew this would go BALLISTIC because it's the current MOST unique keyboard currently available around the globe. Plus using a familiar key-switch that has long been abandoned by all manufacturers for the cheapest one, being the "Cherry". The people are sick of the current situation.
They all want the BEST switch possible and you made that happen hence the interest here, I think 2016 is going to be a stellar year for this to happen :thumb: .
Given the factory delays and the need to make adjustments to the injection molds for the barrels, we are probably about 2-4 weeks away from the completed prototypes and the opening of orders. There is a lot more interest than I had expected - we recently made it to 200+ preorders! I was hoping for an earlier date to open the order form if there were no issues but I want to make sure that even the prototypes are great before accepting orders.
Knew this would go BALLISTIC because it's the current MOST unique keyboard currently available around the globe. Plus using a familiar key-switch that has long been abandoned by all manufacturers for the cheapest one, being the "Cherry". The people are sick of the current situation.
They all want the BEST switch possible and you made that happen hence the interest here, I think 2016 is going to be a stellar year for this to happen :thumb: .
I for one wouldn't want everyone in my office typing on model F's.
Given the factory delays and the need to make adjustments to the injection molds for the barrels, we are probably about 2-4 weeks away from the completed prototypes and the opening of orders. There is a lot more interest than I had expected - we recently made it to 200+ preorders! I was hoping for an earlier date to open the order form if there were no issues but I want to make sure that even the prototypes are great before accepting orders.
Knew this would go BALLISTIC because it's the current MOST unique keyboard currently available around the globe. Plus using a familiar key-switch that has long been abandoned by all manufacturers for the cheapest one, being the "Cherry". The people are sick of the current situation.
They all want the BEST switch possible and you made that happen hence the interest here, I think 2016 is going to be a stellar year for this to happen :thumb: .
I for one wouldn't want everyone in my office typing on model F's.
I think that would be hilarious :))
But someone complained about my solitary SSK at work, so now I use clears.
Given the factory delays and the need to make adjustments to the injection molds for the barrels, we are probably about 2-4 weeks away from the completed prototypes and the opening of orders. There is a lot more interest than I had expected - we recently made it to 200+ preorders! I was hoping for an earlier date to open the order form if there were no issues but I want to make sure that even the prototypes are great before accepting orders.
Knew this would go BALLISTIC because it's the current MOST unique keyboard currently available around the globe. Plus using a familiar key-switch that has long been abandoned by all manufacturers for the cheapest one, being the "Cherry". The people are sick of the current situation.
They all want the BEST switch possible and you made that happen hence the interest here, I think 2016 is going to be a stellar year for this to happen :thumb: .
I for one wouldn't want everyone in my office typing on model F's.
I think that would be hilarious :))
But someone complained about my solitary SSK at work, so now I use clears.
Bunch of haters!
I was using blues at work until someone complained so i bought a novatouch specifically for work. Well that was my excuse for the purchase anyways :P
Bunch of haters!
I was using blues at work until someone complained so i bought a novatouch specifically for work. Well that was my excuse for the purchase anyways :p
As an update, the powdercoating on the case should be finished within a day or so, and then we will just need to wait for the outside foam and box to be made and for the springs to be attached to the flippers - it is possible the prototypes could be here in about two weeks!
Someone convince me to get both boards.. Do I need two?? Great job on this ellipse! Can't wait to see the final product
The F77 is about 16.5 x 7 inches and the F62 is about 2.5 inches less wide (~ 14 x 7 in.). For further space savings in the 7" dimension, I would need a volunteer PCB designer to redesign the xwhatsit controller to take up less space. Currently it just sticks out of the capacitive PCB like on an original XT keyboard. Any volunteers?I am interested in the smaller case!
Since quite a few people asked me about a smaller/redesigned F77 and F62 case in recent months, I am working on an additional case option, in addition to the current cases which will still definitely be the main offering: an alternative case that does not take up as much extra space.
Don't worry the original designs will not change at all - they are the main option! Just about everyone will still be ordering the original-style cases I'd imagine.
The proposed redesigned case will be 1 inch less wide and 0.7 in less the other way (about 15.5 in x 6.3 in for the F77 and 14 in x 6.3 in for the F62). Not much savings. The cost for both case options will be the same, or if there's enough interest you may be able to save a small amount like $15 or so on your order.
The other case would also be made out of metal.
As soon as I get the keyboards and test them, I will offer them for a meet up. Every Model F of mine sounds slightly but noticeably different, so they definitely won't sound exactly like anyone's own Model F. Also the prototypes have had hand-drilled or otherwise hand-adjusted alterations made to them, so they will not be 100% like the final production pieces which will all be machine-made to the finalized specifications.
ok great. I think you will like them. Do you (or anyone else in the NYC area) have an original Kishsaver or Model F you'd like to compare? Maybe you'd like to bring it along. It's always interesting to hear in person how different Model F keyboards sound.
The factory has done great work so far. The prototype parts I've received are well built.
ok great. I think you will like them. Do you (or anyone else in the NYC area) have an original Kishsaver or Model F you'd like to compare? Maybe you'd like to bring it along. It's always interesting to hear in person how different Model F keyboards sound.
The factory has done great work so far. The prototype parts I've received are well built.
As an update, the factory was delayed again, and prototypes are now likely to arrive the week after Christmas now.
As an update, the factory was delayed again, and prototypes are now likely to arrive the week after Christmas now.
More time to keep saving and spending on other things! :p
The case prototypes have finally been completed!It's looks amazing. Such a great piece of work, and I can't wait to see the final results. I can only imagine how much of a relief it is for you to finally see results of your hard work.
They sent over very low quality photos that were improperly compressed most likely - I have asked them to send the original JPGs from their DSLR, but the prototypes should get here in the next week or two and I will take many photos too and hopefully open up orders then :)
The colors and white balance are way off in these photos, so please take the photos with a grain of salt.
The good news is that they seem to have gotten the "extra bumpy" powdercoating texture close to the originals - especially if you look at the first photo below:
F77 prototype case photos will hopefully be forthcoming.
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The case prototypes have finally been completed!
They sent over very low quality photos that were improperly compressed most likely - I have asked them to send the original JPGs from their DSLR, but the prototypes should get here in the next week or two and I will take many photos too and hopefully open up orders then :)
The colors and white balance are way off in these photos, so please take the photos with a grain of salt.
The good news is that they seem to have gotten the "extra bumpy" powdercoating texture close to the originals - especially if you look at the first photo below:
F77 prototype case photos will hopefully be forthcoming.
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F77 prototype case photos will hopefully be forthcoming.
So at regular speed then. :)F77 prototype case photos will hopefully be forthcoming.
straight away without haste :thumb: .
So at regular speed then. :)F77 prototype case photos will hopefully be forthcoming.
straight away without haste :thumb: .
So at regular speed then. :)F77 prototype case photos will hopefully be forthcoming.
straight away without haste :thumb: .
The case prototypes have finally been completed!
The good news is that they seem to have gotten the "extra bumpy" powdercoating texture close to the originals - especially if you look at the first photo below:
**Please disregard the colors in the photos; they are not at all what you will get.
The colors and white balance are way off in these photos, so please take the photos with a grain of salt. The prototypes should get here in the next week or two and I will take many photos too and hopefully open up orders then :)
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So at regular speed then. :)F77 prototype case photos will hopefully be forthcoming.
straight away without haste :thumb: .
hahaha. :)
what color case is everyone getting?
So at regular speed then. :)F77 prototype case photos will hopefully be forthcoming.
straight away without haste :thumb: .
Definitely industrial grey.
yes rowdy it will truly be a special day when these arrive in the mail!
I posted earlier about a small demand for a smaller style case that is less wide - an additional alternative case design. There is a lot of empty space in the original cases.
Here is a rough prototype of the alternative case. No one will get this case unless they request it!
Please note that this alternative case will not be the one offered primarily for this project, but just a low volume alternative version for those who want a smaller form factor case. It will be powdercoated off-white or gray like the originals, or any other Pantone color you specify and if you pay for tooling (could be $100 or so, not sure yet).
The bottom case is reminiscent of the stamped metal bottom case of the F122, while the top case is a curved design like that of the top of a Model M case. The bottom case includes the left and right side "walls" while the top case includes the top and bottom walls. The cases will be attached with four removable screws, like the original.
Personally I prefer the CNC milled original style case as they are bigger, heavier, and more classic looking.
Due to the lower quantities expected for the smaller case, I do not have the minimum quantities to make them with CNC milling, so unfortunately the case had to be redesigned from scratch and simplified.
No need to say you will stay with the original case - I will assume everyone wants the original unless they specify otherwise in the order form. I do welcome feedback though on this design - if you can volunteer another design that does not need to be CNC milled please do post it.
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Yes romevi you can order both. you'd need to buy a new bottom inner assembly plate. Everything else would be interchangeable.
The little parts from McMaster-Carr have arrived! A sampling of screws, foam, bumpers, nuts, washers, etc. More will be ordered based on what's required and what people indicate in their order forms.
All of their bumpers feel very well-made and should be great for this project. I personally prefer the cork-rubber bumpers reminiscent of the original XT keyboard.
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The silver-colored labels have arrived and they look great! Here is the first draft of the label design:
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The silver-colored labels have arrived and they look great! Here is the first draft of the label design:
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Ellipse -- for those of us who have signed onto your form are we ordering through the website as well?
And yes Elrick I will ship them in the sequence that the orders come in on the web site. If anyone is international and wants a lower serial number please let me know and I will try to set a unit aside (due to the time zone differences).
ryahirv there will be a smaller case for the F77 model too. I have been talking with the DT folks about the design of the smaller case. A number of them seem to prefer an extruded aluminum type case which is significantly more expensive than my alternative case design posted earlier in this thread.
Here are the "second alternative" extruded aluminum case rough draft designs (one with perpendicular edges and one with rounded) - please let me know your feedback.
correct ctm - you can't order anything just yet.
Technically the backend of the site is up (just the items and customization options) but ordering is disabled.
I prefer the rounded edges, by a hair.
Will you be making a complete working prototype with the new designs?
I prefer the rounded edges, by a hair.
Will you be making a complete working prototype with the new designs?
I prefer the hairy edges. Buy a round.
The case color options will be for Off-White/Beige, Gray, and a custom color if you discuss with me beforehand.
The layout options for the springs will be ANSI, ISO, and HHKB (split right shift only and both split shift and split backspace).
Ir0n the lower serial number options will be available on the web site for a slightly higher charge if you want to be a higher-level project supporter :). Besides that, they will ship and you will get a serial number in order of when your order comes in.
Wrapping up final things:
Europe F77/F62 shipping proxies - any volunteers?
You would be receiving a number of keyboards and shipping them out across Europe, for those who want to save on shipping costs. For example, the post office charges about $51 for a 7 pound package but $91 for a 28 pound package (I don't know the final weight of the keyboards just yet). Then those in Europe would pay you directly for the charges to ship within Europe.
Custom Colors - on the interest form some of you said you'd like a custom color. I will try to get black, but are there any other colors you really want, even if tooling costs were $20 to $100 extra? Please let me know by replying here or over PM. The more people interested in your suggested color, the lower the tooling costs to change colors.
Keyboard options -
The case color options will be for Off-White/Beige, Gray, and a custom color if you discuss with me beforehand.
The layout options for the springs will be ANSI, ISO, and HHKB (split right shift only and both split shift and split backspace).
The key options will be bring your own set (if you mail it to me I can have the factory install it, no extra charge), ANSI, black blank, regular blank, and your own language (ISO) as long as Unicomp makes it. I will also try to get APL and front printed keys but those will both cost more. The costs will be passed along: whatever Unicomp charges on their web site. I will also try to get some used Model M ANSI key sets.
Ir0n the lower serial number options will be available on the web site for a slightly higher charge if you want to be a higher-level project supporter :). Besides that, they will ship and you will get a serial number in order of when your order comes in.
Wrapping up final things:
Europe F77/F62 shipping proxies - any volunteers?
You would be receiving a number of keyboards and shipping them out across Europe, for those who want to save on shipping costs. For example, the post office charges about $51 for a 7 pound package but $91 for a 28 pound package (I don't know the final weight of the keyboards just yet). Then those in Europe would pay you directly for the charges to ship within Europe.
Custom Colors - on the interest form some of you said you'd like a custom color. I will try to get black, but are there any other colors you really want, even if tooling costs were $20 to $100 extra? Please let me know by replying here or over PM. The more people interested in your suggested color, the lower the tooling costs to change colors.
Keyboard options -
The case color options will be for Off-White/Beige, Gray, and a custom color if you discuss with me beforehand.
The layout options for the springs will be ANSI, ISO, and HHKB (split right shift only and both split shift and split backspace).
The key options will be bring your own set (if you mail it to me I can have the factory install it, no extra charge), ANSI, black blank, regular blank, and your own language (ISO) as long as Unicomp makes it. I will also try to get APL and front printed keys but those will both cost more. The costs will be passed along: whatever Unicomp charges on their web site. I will also try to get some used Model M ANSI key sets.
Yes here is a post from DT showing a HHKB option:
(Attachment Link)
The order form will be opened after I approve of the prototypes. The prototypes should arrive by the end of next week hopefully.
The order form will be opened after I approve of the prototypes. The prototypes should arrive by the end of next week hopefully.
I'm not late to the party right? Hope this GB a success so that we can make a FSSK, btw I don't know what to choose f62 or f77 :(
The factory used the wrong type of packing foam for the prototype units, instead of the styrofoam material I specified. As I want the prototypes to be perfect, even the styrofoam packing, I am waiting until they re-make the styrofoam packaging early next week. This will probably push the date the prototypes arrive to the week of Jan. 11th.
These delays are frustrating but the factory has been very patient and otherwise attentive to such a small project and I am glad they are working with me.
I am ordering the keys from Unicomp - if their pricing or availability changes I will get in touch with you with options.
Oh yeah 1 more question does this have the click solenoid like one of the original? :p
Yep I really want to get the neighrbours real mad. click solenoid is cool tho too bad its not available with this GBOh yeah 1 more question does this have the click solenoid like one of the original? :p
Aren't the Model-F keys loud enough when used, some were complaining about that earlier on?
The "Click Solenoid" will make the keys even louder which might be good for your neighbours down the block, that would love hearing your typing around midnight :thumb: .
Elrick yes you can buy Red, Green, or Blue keys. Those keys are $15 more than the regular printed set, according to Unicomp's web site.
So the cost would be $325 keyboard + 4 stabilizer inserts totaling $6 + $3 spacebar + $40 R, G, or B key set = $374. All those prices besides the keyboard itself are Unicomp's currently listed prices.
Elrick yes you can buy Red, Green, or Blue keys. Those keys are $15 more than the regular printed set, according to Unicomp's web site.
So the cost would be $325 keyboard + 4 stabilizer inserts totaling $6 + $3 spacebar + $40 R, G, or B key set = $374. All those prices besides the keyboard itself are Unicomp's currently listed prices.
HOT DAMN :o .
Now I want this EVEN MORE .......... Please make sure I get some of that BLUE coloured goodness for my F77 keyboard. If they can't supply all the Blue keys I would be willing to accept the plain Black coloured legends, but that's if the F77 can't take all the BLUE coloured keys.
I am so excited by this, my first Model-F keyboard in an all metal casing built to out live me, what more could you want?
No, I don't think you understand. The keys will still be the standard Pearl/Pebble, but the legends can be red, green, or blue. Take a look, I believe this is what Ellipse was going on about.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/FullRGBKeys (http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/FullRGBKeys)
No, I don't think you understand. The keys will still be the standard Pearl/Pebble, but the legends can be red, green, or blue. Take a look, I believe this is what Ellipse was going on about.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/FullRGBKeys (http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/FullRGBKeys)
Dear Snowdog993,
I know Unicomp shall supply only COLOURED Legends onto the standard Pearl/Pebble series of caps. Have known that for years but you can request specific coloured keys from them if you're willing to pay for it.
Content with just having all Blue Legends for mine, which will go brilliantly with an all Gray Keyboard Casing :thumb: .
Yes, definitely. I thought you were saying blue keycaps with black legends. Never mind me. I just misunderstood what you said.
A noob question, why are there 4 barrels on left of spacebar barrel? In all the kishsaver photos I see, there are only 3 keys on left of spacebar.
A noob question, why are there 4 barrels on left of spacebar barrel? In all the kishsaver photos I see, there are only 3 keys on left of spacebar.
The innermost barrel there is for stabilization of the spacebar, I believe.
Thanks KetchyKech - yep if you're interested please complete the Google Docs interest form in the first tab and I will email you a link when the orders open, hopefully next week.
Yes this is the only mechanical keyboard project where you can buy a brand new mechanical keyboard with an alternative to an MX-type switch, and it will only be open for a two-month window before production ends again). Model F's were the gold standard mechanical keyboard back in the 1980s. A 122-key Model F cost $295 when it was introduced in 1984, or over $670 adjusted for inflation. With this project you can buy a brand new Model F for about the same price it sold for in 1984 dollars!
They come fully made and assembled in China, even with any custom layout you choose, as long as the original barrels support it.
Regarding the keyboard names, while the brand new Model F keyboards from this project can support any number of keys, I chose model names that reflect their original key counts; hence they were named F62 and F77.
Yes this is the only mechanical keyboard project where you can buy a brand new mechanical keyboard with an alternative to an MX-type switch, and it will only be open for a two-month window before production ends again)
fanpeople - you can place an order in the two month order window - you are charged when you place the order. Then in late March/early April I will close the order form and place the order. Production should take 1-2 months. The orders ship in order of received payment - hopefully starting in May.
fanpeople - you can place an order in the two month order window - you are charged when you place the order. Then in late March/early April I will close the order form and place the order. Production should take 1-2 months. The orders ship in order of received payment - hopefully starting in May.
fanpeople - you can place an order in the two month order window - you are charged when you place the order. Then in late March/early April I will close the order form and place the order. Production should take 1-2 months. The orders ship in order of received payment - hopefully starting in May.
you're making me so excited right now...
fanpeople - you can place an order in the two month order window - you are charged when you place the order. Then in late March/early April I will close the order form and place the order. Production should take 1-2 months. The orders ship in order of received payment - hopefully starting in May.
you're making me so excited right now...
Too fvcking Right ;D .
This is the Group Buy to be in right now. A real mechanical keyboard done right in 2016, something that is extremely rare and never to be repeated again any time soon.
For all the newbs here, if you miss this one then don't ever call yourself a "Mechanical Keyboard Fanatic" because you have shown your true ignorance in front of every other keyboard fanboy on this forum site. Proof of your keyboard addiction is in getting a couple of these babies and using them everyday till the day you die.
Time to front up and show your commitment to Keyboard Excellence.
Here's an interesting option for those who want to want to get their keyboard a month or so earlier, as early as the end of March/early April instead of May/June: My understanding is that the factory is willing to break the order into two production runs for a tooling/setup fee of $1,500. Meaning they will set up their tooling for this product, make it, then re-set up the tooling for the second and final group for $1,500 extra.
This would mean that we could start production after the order form has been open for 2-3 weeks if we wanted to, for the early birds, and then the second and final order group for everyone else at the end of the two month window, instead of one big run starting in a little over two months from now.
I won't be asking every potential early bird to pay a little extra. Instead I was thinking if 15 people were willing to donate $100 towards the extra early production run, or any combination of "early bird premiums" to get to $1,500, then this would be feasible. I will leave this option up to the DT and GH community ordering these to decide.
Would 15 people gladly pay $100 to have everyone ordering early be able to get their keyboard 4-5 weeks earlier? Feel free to PM me or post if you are interested. Maybe we could arrange some special bonus for these early bird donors, like their user name on the quality control sticker inside the Model F or something like that.
Would 15 people gladly pay $100 to have everyone ordering early be able to get their keyboard 4-5 weeks earlier? Feel free to PM me or post if you are interested. Maybe we could arrange some special bonus for these early bird donors, like their user name on the quality control sticker inside the Model F or something like that.
Cods, Lurch, and Pemdas are you volunteering to cover the extra $100 towards the $1500 in tooling for an early bird round? Or just paying in the first few weeks to get in early? It's not clear.
Would Unicomp be willing to sell custom sets for this project, with gray mods and brilliant white alphas? I really like this combo. If so, can they offer the top row with front printed function keys in brilliant white?
You can see the gray/brilliant white combo on the Unicomp Ultra Classic buy at Massdrop. I think this would look outstanding on my industrial gray F77!
Yes there will be spare parts ordered.
I just want to make sure that I am asking for some early birds to help cover $100 each for the earlier round. You can also just pay the original amount earlier as well and still be an early bird.
Cods, Lurch, and Pemdas are you volunteering to cover the extra $100 towards the $1500 in tooling for an early bird round? Or just paying in the first few weeks to get in early? It's not clear.
There will be a web site where you can add parts to your shopping cart.
Look what arrived today :) The dot matrix printer for the packing slip included with each F62/F77-containing order! It works well, and it will work with the tractor pull green bar paper from earlier (I bought a few hundred sheets).
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Look what arrived today :) The dot matrix printer for the packing slip included with each F62/F77-containing order! It works well, and it will work with the tractor pull green bar paper from earlier (I bought a few hundred sheets).
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Look what arrived today :) The dot matrix printer for the packing slip included with each F62/F77-containing order! It works well, and it will work with the tractor pull green bar paper from earlier (I bought a few hundred sheets).
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Look what arrived today :) The dot matrix printer for the packing slip included with each F62/F77-containing order! It works well, and it will work with the tractor pull green bar paper from earlier (I bought a few hundred sheets).
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Look what arrived today :) The dot matrix printer for the packing slip included with each F62/F77-containing order! It works well, and it will work with the tractor pull green bar paper from earlier (I bought a few hundred sheets).
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
First off, this project looks awesome! Great work so far!Does F62 supports four keys on right of spacebar? I only see three barrels there.
I have been looking into the possibility of getting my favorite 60% layout for the 62-key and I just thought I would post it to see if anyone else was interested and wanted to help out with the up-front tooling costs (after which, boards will cost the same as any other 62-key). Total cost is still TBD, this is just a preliminary inquiry.
Here it is:
(Attachment Link)
To my knowledge, no one else likes this layout, but I figured it couldn't hurt to check. One thing worth noting is that all these keys come in a standard winkey set (6.25 space, 1.25 mods). However, I am not the biggest fan of the stepped 1.75.
This may also apply to anyone who is a fan of split right shift layouts, but I have ordered a 3D printed non-stepped 1.75 unit key to try out because I do not like stepped caps lock. It won't ship until the 18th, but I hope to post a brief review when it arrives.
http://www.shapeways.com/product/YMFXWFRAK/ibm-model-m-keycap-1-75-non-stepped-v2?li=shop-results&optionId=40367442 (http://www.shapeways.com/product/YMFXWFRAK/ibm-model-m-keycap-1-75-non-stepped-v2?li=shop-results&optionId=40367442)
Does F62 supports four keys on right of spacebar? I only see three barrels there.
The prototypes and foam have been completed! They will be on their way to me this week via expedited shipping! Please note that the foam prototypes in the photos were adjusted/made with hand tools so they still have some rough areas and markings, but these will not be on the production styrofoam pieces.
Also the boxes in the photos are the correct double walled specification but will be opening from the side with the production boxes instead of on top like in the prototype boxes shown in the photos.
Also a reminder that the powdercoated case colors are prototype colors and may not be the final colors.
I wonder if I am overprotecting these keyboards - all this extra packaging is going to run up a hefty shipping bill from China.
Once production finishes (production takes 1-2 months), then it will take a few weeks for sea mail from China. I was thinking of offering the option to pay for DHL or other expedited shipping options where it goes DHL Express, etc. to me and then I test it and send it out expedited shipping. This might enable you to get the keyboard a few weeks faster than expected.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The prototypes and foam have been completed! They will be on their way to me this week via expedited shipping! Please note that the foam prototypes in the photos were adjusted/made with hand tools so they still have some rough areas and markings, but these will not be on the production styrofoam pieces.
Also the boxes in the photos are the correct double walled specification but will be opening from the side with the production boxes instead of on top like in the prototype boxes shown in the photos.
Also a reminder that the powdercoated case colors are prototype colors and may not be the final colors.
I wonder if I am overprotecting these keyboards - all this extra packaging is going to run up a hefty shipping bill from China.
Once production finishes (production takes 1-2 months), then it will take a few weeks for sea mail from China. I was thinking of offering the option to pay for DHL or other expedited shipping options where it goes DHL Express, etc. to me and then I test it and send it out expedited shipping. This might enable you to get the keyboard a few weeks faster than expected.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The prototypes and foam have been completed! They will be on their way to me this week via expedited shipping! Please note that the foam prototypes in the photos were adjusted/made with hand tools so they still have some rough areas and markings, but these will not be on the production styrofoam pieces.
Also the boxes in the photos are the correct double walled specification but will be opening from the side with the production boxes instead of on top like in the prototype boxes shown in the photos.
Also a reminder that the powdercoated case colors are prototype colors and may not be the final colors.
I wonder if I am overprotecting these keyboards - all this extra packaging is going to run up a hefty shipping bill from China.
Once production finishes (production takes 1-2 months), then it will take a few weeks for sea mail from China. I was thinking of offering the option to pay for DHL or other expedited shipping options where it goes DHL Express, etc. to me and then I test it and send it out expedited shipping. This might enable you to get the keyboard a few weeks faster than expected.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
oh wow. these look so good. and that styrofoam looks so fresh and crispy!
i'm still agonizing over which color to get. grey, beige, black, grey, beige, black, grey...
oh wow. these look so good. and that styrofoam looks so fresh and crispy!
i'm still agonizing over which color to get. grey, beige, black, grey, beige, black, grey...
Black.
The prototypes and foam have been completed! They will be on their way to me this week via expedited shipping! Please note that the foam prototypes in the photos were adjusted/made with hand tools so they still have some rough areas and markings, but these will not be on the production styrofoam pieces.
Also the boxes in the photos are the correct double walled specification but will be opening from the side with the production boxes instead of on top like in the prototype boxes shown in the photos.
Also a reminder that the powdercoated case colors are prototype colors and may not be the final colors.
I wonder if I am overprotecting these keyboards - all this extra packaging is going to run up a hefty shipping bill from China.
Once production finishes (production takes 1-2 months), then it will take a few weeks for sea mail from China. I was thinking of offering the option to pay for DHL or other expedited shipping options where it goes DHL Express, etc. to me and then I test it and send it out expedited shipping. This might enable you to get the keyboard a few weeks faster than expected.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
BEAUTIFUL, this is the F77 I want so desperately :o .
Can't believe this is finally happening, a real Model-F built in 2016, you've done ****ing amazing magic Ellipse..........
God damn....I could make love to these boards all night. And I really appreciate the attention to packaging detail you're making because sometimes I get stuck with a guy/girl who really just doesn't care about my package and I end up with a nice gaping hole or crunch in the box haha. Haven't had anything broken yet :p .
Today I ordered a sampling of Unicomp key sets for testing, in anticipation of the prototypes arriving hopefully next week!
Yes industrial grey will definitely be an option - the second picture is the prototype industrial gray color. Once I see it in person I may change the exact type of grey a little.
Some project draft graphics will be posted soon for your feedback! For the project web site logo I expect to use a buckling spring animation similar to ones found online, plus a still version. The logo will also have a description of the keyboard in the same dot matrix font that will be used on the birthday labels - something like "F62 Model F Keyboard."
I have some money stashed away for this baby. I can't wait to be initiated in the bs cult of love.
To be honest, this will be my first Buckling spring board, capacitive or membrane. What should I expect? I've only used topre a lot, really.
The logo will also have a description of the keyboard in the same dot matrix font that will be used on the birthday labels - something like "F62 Model F Keyboard."
I have some money stashed away for this baby. I can't wait to be initiated in the bs cult of love.
To be honest, this will be my first Buckling spring board, capacitive or membrane. What should I expect? I've only used topre a lot, really.
Expect for BS over Membrane to never feel "great" after using one of these suckers. You'll sadly never be wowed by an SSK or Model M.
I have some money stashed away for this baby. I can't wait to be initiated in the bs cult of love.
To be honest, this will be my first Buckling spring board, capacitive or membrane. What should I expect? I've only used topre a lot, really.
Expect for BS over Membrane to never feel "great" after using one of these suckers. You'll sadly never be wowed by an SSK or Model M.
Words of greater truth have never been spoken.
I have some money stashed away for this baby. I can't wait to be initiated in the bs cult of love.
To be honest, this will be my first Buckling spring board, capacitive or membrane. What should I expect? I've only used topre a lot, really.
Expect for BS over Membrane to never feel "great" after using one of these suckers. You'll sadly never be wowed by an SSK or Model M.
Words of greater truth have never been spoken.
"click".
I have some money stashed away for this baby. I can't wait to be initiated in the bs cult of love.
To be honest, this will be my first Buckling spring board, capacitive or membrane. What should I expect? I've only used topre a lot, really.
Expect for BS over Membrane to never feel "great" after using one of these suckers. You'll sadly never be wowed by an SSK or Model M.
Words of greater truth have never been spoken.
"click".
I will actually probably be selling an SSK to fund part of this. Obviously, now nobody in this thread will want it haha
I can't imagine anything better than a kishsaver, what bs board could top it?! I can think of none.I have some money stashed away for this baby. I can't wait to be initiated in the bs cult of love.
To be honest, this will be my first Buckling spring board, capacitive or membrane. What should I expect? I've only used topre a lot, really.
Expect for BS over Membrane to never feel "great" after using one of these suckers. You'll sadly never be wowed by an SSK or Model M.
Words of greater truth have never been spoken.
"click".
I will actually probably be selling an SSK to fund part of this. Obviously, now nobody in this thread will want it haha
Snowdog sorry for the confusion - there will be no visible logo on the keyboard itself, besides what's on the bottom label. On the birthday label there will be the buckling spring graphic. The label will say F77 or F62 on it. Attached is a sample logo without the graphic.
(Attachment Link)
There will also be an internal sticker on the bottom inner assembly (at least for the early bird version, maybe for the other versions too) that will thank all those who helped the project and donated towards the early bird tooling run.
I feel like quite a few newcomers may miss out on this sale and opt to get in on flashier customs or keyboards while this is happening. I'm surely not blaming them, "old" keyboards aren't the most enticing in appearance (at first), and shelling out $325 for this when you can get a flashy GoN with nutty lighting and acrylic casing for the same ballpark price may lead many asking "why is this so special?"
When you try stash away money for this buy, but there are artisan sales everywhere... :(Life has become a lot simpler now that I have lost interest in the artisan scene. Much less stressful. ^-^
When you try stash away money for this buy, but there are artisan sales everywhere... :(Life has become a lot simpler now that I have lost interest in the artisan scene. Much less stressful. ^-^
The prototypes and foam have been completed! They will be on their way to me this week via expedited shipping! Please note that the foam prototypes in the photos were adjusted/made with hand tools so they still have some rough areas and markings, but these will not be on the production styrofoam pieces.
Also the boxes in the photos are the correct double walled specification but will be opening from the side with the production boxes instead of on top like in the prototype boxes shown in the photos.
Also a reminder that the powdercoated case colors are prototype colors and may not be the final colors.
I wonder if I am overprotecting these keyboards - all this extra packaging is going to run up a hefty shipping bill from China.
Once production finishes (production takes 1-2 months), then it will take a few weeks for sea mail from China. I was thinking of offering the option to pay for DHL or other expedited shipping options where it goes DHL Express, etc. to me and then I test it and send it out expedited shipping. This might enable you to get the keyboard a few weeks faster than expected.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
When you try stash away money for this buy, but there are artisan sales everywhere... :(Life has become a lot simpler now that I have lost interest in the artisan scene. Much less stressful. ^-^
One of the forum members generously helped design some really nice logos and a buckling spring animation for the project. They are similar to some of the buckling spring animations floating around different web sites.
These renderings show the graphics as they would appear on a box. I'm not sure where they will end up: on the box, the web site, the manual, etc. I'm going to look into adding one of these graphics to the boxes.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
MoreI feel like quite a few newcomers may miss out on this sale and opt to get in on flashier customs or keyboards while this is happening. I'm surely not blaming them, "old" keyboards aren't the most enticing in appearance (at first), and shelling out $325 for this when you can get a flashy GoN with nutty lighting and acrylic casing for the same ballpark price may lead many asking "why is this so special?"
This area isn't for the newbs because they are more attracted to lights like ignorant moths ;D .
Can't change that because all youngsters care about today is that their keyboards all look like their iPhones with stupid colours and graphics. When they get older you'll see the look of failure upon their faces when asked what they did when this Model-F was released all those years ago. Whilst some of us shall be rejoicing on our purchases you'll have the losers lamenting their choice of keyboard, decomposing on their desks.
Some people have to learn the hard way in life, miss out on the important purchases that really matter..........
MoreI feel like quite a few newcomers may miss out on this sale and opt to get in on flashier customs or keyboards while this is happening. I'm surely not blaming them, "old" keyboards aren't the most enticing in appearance (at first), and shelling out $325 for this when you can get a flashy GoN with nutty lighting and acrylic casing for the same ballpark price may lead many asking "why is this so special?"
This area isn't for the newbs because they are more attracted to lights like ignorant moths ;D .
Can't change that because all youngsters care about today is that their keyboards all look like their iPhones with stupid colours and graphics. When they get older you'll see the look of failure upon their faces when asked what they did when this Model-F was released all those years ago. Whilst some of us shall be rejoicing on our purchases you'll have the losers lamenting their choice of keyboard, decomposing on their desks.
Some people have to learn the hard way in life, miss out on the important purchases that really matter..........
You know Elrick, I thought I'd get used to your enthusiastic way of speaking, but sometimes it comes off as really grating haha, especially this comment on young keyboarders. Rather than harsh on their mellow why not just inform them and show them why these keyboards so special to everyone here?
well I think Elrick is the slap happy teacher.
MoreMoreI feel like quite a few newcomers may miss out on this sale and opt to get in on flashier customs or keyboards while this is happening. I'm surely not blaming them, "old" keyboards aren't the most enticing in appearance (at first), and shelling out $325 for this when you can get a flashy GoN with nutty lighting and acrylic casing for the same ballpark price may lead many asking "why is this so special?"
This area isn't for the newbs because they are more attracted to lights like ignorant moths ;D .
Can't change that because all youngsters care about today is that their keyboards all look like their iPhones with stupid colours and graphics. When they get older you'll see the look of failure upon their faces when asked what they did when this Model-F was released all those years ago. Whilst some of us shall be rejoicing on our purchases you'll have the losers lamenting their choice of keyboard, decomposing on their desks.
Some people have to learn the hard way in life, miss out on the important purchases that really matter..........
You know Elrick, I thought I'd get used to your enthusiastic way of speaking, but sometimes it comes off as really grating haha, especially this comment on young keyboarders. Rather than harsh on their mellow why not just inform them and show them why these keyboards so special to everyone here?
You know how at school there are the younger teachers that seem to adapt to the modern way of doing things, but then there is always the old grumpy one which yearns to just rip off their belt and give you a flogging. No matter what the principle does, their ways cannot be adapted so they just sit and patiently wait for them to retire so that chapter in the education system can be closed......
well I think Elrick is the slap happy teacher.
I'm probably among the youngest on the forum and I favour a F62 rather than a GON or some other such board.I'm the youngest here and I like the f better than those ****ty christmas tree keyboard :mad:
I've beaten you're theory elrick, I guess I'm an outlier. Or maybe your theory is more anecdotal, I'd imagine most young people on this forum have very different opinions on this matter than some random youth on the street. :-*
What about the d :pI'm probably among the youngest on the forum and I favour a F62 rather than a GON or some other such board.I'm the youngest here and I like the f better than those ****ty christmas tree keyboard :mad:
I've beaten you're theory elrick, I guess I'm an outlier. Or maybe your theory is more anecdotal, I'd imagine most young people on this forum have very different opinions on this matter than some random youth on the street. :-*
I'm probably among the youngest on the forum and I favour a F62 rather than a GON or some other such board.
The d? lets forget about talking about D here :pWhat about the d :pI'm probably among the youngest on the forum and I favour a F62 rather than a GON or some other such board.I'm the youngest here and I like the f better than those ****ty christmas tree keyboard :mad:
I've beaten you're theory elrick, I guess I'm an outlier. Or maybe your theory is more anecdotal, I'd imagine most young people on this forum have very different opinions on this matter than some random youth on the street. :-*
I'm probably among the youngest on the forum and I favour a F62 rather than a GON or some other such board.
You're the exception here compared to most who are mesmerized when certain coloured leds are flashed before their eyes in quick succession.
They become hypnotized by that experience and will forever more keep buying Vegas-styled keyboards throughout their sad little lives ;D .
The Model-F has none of that stupid visual effects because it delivers on that unique finger to key usage, which only the yanks had achieved.
It's kind of sad how people actually think liking keyboards that are dolled up with lighting and effects are actually less of a human being. It's just a different aesthetic. There's no reason to trash on others for liking what they like. Having a fancy RGB keyboard could be the pinnacle of keyboard collecting for some people. It wouldn't be any less ****ty than other people's endgame like this board would be, or a fancy Korean aluminum one. Some people might even like lighting and still appreciate the aesthetic of traditional boards like these. This is a keyboard enthusiast forum, not the model f members only forum.
I personally can't wait to get ahold of one of these myself. It's been amazing to see how far along this project has actually gotten, and so quickly too. Ellipse is really on his sht getting these out for everybody else and trying to give people an authentic experience when they receive their keyboard, so thank you!
It's kind of sad how people actually think liking keyboards that are dolled up with lighting and effects are actually less of a human being. It's just a different aesthetic. There's no reason to trash on others for liking what they like. Having a fancy RGB keyboard could be the pinnacle of keyboard collecting for some people. It wouldn't be any less ****ty than other people's endgame like this board would be, or a fancy Korean aluminum one. Some people might even like lighting and still appreciate the aesthetic of traditional boards like these. This is a keyboard enthusiast forum, not the model f members only forum.
I personally can't wait to get ahold of one of these myself. It's been amazing to see how far along this project has actually gotten, and so quickly too. Ellipse is really on his sht getting these out for everybody else and trying to give people an authentic experience when they receive their keyboard, so thank you!
I'm probably among the youngest on the forum and I favour a F62 rather than a GON or some other such board.
You're the exception here compared to most who are mesmerized when certain coloured leds are flashed before their eyes in quick succession.
They become hypnotized by that experience and will forever more keep buying Vegas-styled keyboards throughout their sad little lives ;D .
The Model-F has none of that stupid visual effects because it delivers on that unique finger to key usage, which only the yanks had achieved.
I think for many that actually find that keyboards are a hobby for them, and not just a passing phase, they naturally grow out of it as they continue to search for new and interesting boards. If you were just a gamer I wouldn't expect you to know the significance or have the desire for a Model F. These are like a fine scotch, but you have to know what ****ty scotch tastes like to appreciate the good stuff.
If I wasn't in Australia I would consider buying up some stock for re-sale but I just can't see much interest for these domestically and to re-ship these things to the US would probably kill much of the interest.
It's a shame because this is the single most awesome thing which deserves a sustained shop front to spew BS goodness all onver the world.
If I wasn't in Australia I would consider buying up some stock for re-sale but I just can't see much interest for these domestically and to re-ship these things to the US would probably kill much of the interest.
It's a shame because this is the single most awesome thing which deserves a sustained shop front to spew BS goodness all onver the world.
normally true, but this is a very special keyboard that people can't just wait for the next GB on. good chance that people who care enough to buy this keyboard once they find out about it, can also handle the shipping costs.
*also, to save on shipping, only stock the f62's.
fanpeople I am not sure about your calculations, they may be too high. To ship 2 keyboards to Australia in one box, assuming 16 pounds, would cost $100 total with USPS shipping, or about $50 each. So your cost would be $325 for the keyboard plus $50 shipping in that case.
fanpeople I am not sure about your calculations, they may be too high. To ship 2 keyboards to Australia in one box, assuming 16 pounds, would cost $100 total with USPS shipping, or about $50 each. So your cost would be $325 for the keyboard plus $50 shipping in that case.
Seems right considering these keyboards are HEAVY compared to most others sold everywhere, including Kmacs.
The size of the box plus weight puts it at the lower end pricetag of $50.00USD (east-coast) because I'm situated on the other side of this Convict Settlement, means having my wallet raped even more when the time comes. 8) .
fanpeople I am not sure about your calculations, they may be too high. To ship 2 keyboards to Australia in one box, assuming 16 pounds, would cost $100 total with USPS shipping, or about $50 each. So your cost would be $325 for the keyboard plus $50 shipping in that case.
Well i'm in so maybe if us Aussies band together, we can save on the shipping costs? I know theres quite a few
All this talk of the "tricked out" LED GON style VS the NO LED "traditional" style has got me thinking. Once I get my F62, I think I'm also going to get a thin, flat piece of frosted acrylic and set the F62 on top of that. Then I will put an RGB LED strip under the acrylic. Who says you can't have it both ways?! I like to have my cake and eat it too! FUWAHAHAHAJust wait until the first Phospor Glow (http://phosphorglow.net/tag/ssk/) F62 or F77 shows up. :cool:
All this talk of the "tricked out" LED GON style VS the NO LED "traditional" style has got me thinking. Once I get my F62, I think I'm also going to get a thin, flat piece of frosted acrylic and set the F62 on top of that. Then I will put an RGB LED strip under the acrylic. Who says you can't have it both ways?! I like to have my cake and eat it too! FUWAHAHAHAJust wait until the first Phospor Glow (http://phosphorglow.net/tag/ssk/) F62 or F77 shows up. :cool:
Wasn't there someone who made a backlit Model M?
All this talk of the "tricked out" LED GON style VS the NO LED "traditional" style has got me thinking. Once I get my F62, I think I'm also going to get a thin, flat piece of frosted acrylic and set the F62 on top of that. Then I will put an RGB LED strip under the acrylic. Who says you can't have it both ways?! I like to have my cake and eat it too! FUWAHAHAHA
CPTBadAss has the most fabulous f62. :))All this talk of the "tricked out" LED GON style VS the NO LED "traditional" style has got me thinking. Once I get my F62, I think I'm also going to get a thin, flat piece of frosted acrylic and set the F62 on top of that. Then I will put an RGB LED strip under the acrylic. Who says you can't have it both ways?! I like to have my cake and eat it too! FUWAHAHAHA
I've got a very large bottle of glitter here waiting for mine to arrive...I've also been saving a pink can of plastidip for a special project and I think this may just be the one.
CPTBadAss has the most fabulous f62. :))All this talk of the "tricked out" LED GON style VS the NO LED "traditional" style has got me thinking. Once I get my F62, I think I'm also going to get a thin, flat piece of frosted acrylic and set the F62 on top of that. Then I will put an RGB LED strip under the acrylic. Who says you can't have it both ways?! I like to have my cake and eat it too! FUWAHAHAHA
I've got a very large bottle of glitter here waiting for mine to arrive...I've also been saving a pink can of plastidip for a special project and I think this may just be the one.Show Image(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/15159170237_777a977b40.jpg)
CPTBadAss has the most fabulous f62. :))All this talk of the "tricked out" LED GON style VS the NO LED "traditional" style has got me thinking. Once I get my F62, I think I'm also going to get a thin, flat piece of frosted acrylic and set the F62 on top of that. Then I will put an RGB LED strip under the acrylic. Who says you can't have it both ways?! I like to have my cake and eat it too! FUWAHAHAHA
I've got a very large bottle of glitter here waiting for mine to arrive...I've also been saving a pink can of plastidip for a special project and I think this may just be the one.Show Image(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/15159170237_777a977b40.jpg)
Fabulous indeed.
(Attachment Link)
LolCPTBadAss has the most fabulous f62. :))All this talk of the "tricked out" LED GON style VS the NO LED "traditional" style has got me thinking. Once I get my F62, I think I'm also going to get a thin, flat piece of frosted acrylic and set the F62 on top of that. Then I will put an RGB LED strip under the acrylic. Who says you can't have it both ways?! I like to have my cake and eat it too! FUWAHAHAHA
I've got a very large bottle of glitter here waiting for mine to arrive...I've also been saving a pink can of plastidip for a special project and I think this may just be the one.Show Image(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/15159170237_777a977b40.jpg)
CPTBadAss has the most fabulous f62. :))Show Image(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/15159170237_777a977b40.jpg)
CPTBadAss has the most fabulous f62. :))All this talk of the "tricked out" LED GON style VS the NO LED "traditional" style has got me thinking. Once I get my F62, I think I'm also going to get a thin, flat piece of frosted acrylic and set the F62 on top of that. Then I will put an RGB LED strip under the acrylic. Who says you can't have it both ways?! I like to have my cake and eat it too! FUWAHAHAHA
I've got a very large bottle of glitter here waiting for mine to arrive...I've also been saving a pink can of plastidip for a special project and I think this may just be the one.Show Image(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/15159170237_777a977b40.jpg)
Thanks all for the logo feedback. It looks like the preference is for the blue version of the non-angled text logo, with "ultimate" removed from the subheading. I hope to add this logo to the boxes but it may be too costly. If anyone prefers no logo on the box I may be able to arrange that as well.
(Attachment Link)
Thanks all for the logo feedback. It looks like the preference is for the blue version of the non-angled text logo, with "ultimate" removed from the subheading. I hope to add this logo to the boxes but it may be too costly. If anyone prefers no logo on the box I may be able to arrange that as well.
Is http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ your website Ellipse?
Thanks all for the logo feedback. It looks like the preference is for the blue version of the non-angled text logo, with "ultimate" removed from the subheading. I hope to add this logo to the boxes but it may be too costly. If anyone prefers no logo on the box I may be able to arrange that as well.I absolutely love this graphics! Putting "ultimate" on the box is somewhat redundant because it's obviously the ultimate :cool:
(Attachment Link)
The keyboard prototypes are expected to arrive on Monday when I hope to do my inspection, testing, and videos.
Can anyone else volunteer for $100 towards the early bird tooling?
In exchange for allowing everyone to receive their keyboards months earlier, you will be given a lower serial number, brought towards the front of the line in terms of testing and shipping your keyboard, and your user name will be added to the inside label as an early bird tooling volunteer. The only other way to be pushed to the front is to pay extra for a lower serial number only (not on the label).
Anyone else interested in getting few done in red with me?
I was thinking this redShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/NTMIyNz.png)
Or maybe some other shade of red?
I know most of you are most likely going original colors or black but I'm just checking
I like me some red lol
OK here are the requested custom colors - please add to the list if I forgot any.I may be interested in dark gray depending on what the final shade is.
Please note that all of these colors require custom tooling and everyone wanting the color must help pay for the tooling. This is different from the custom layout where anyone can get the layout once at least one person pays for the tooling.
Everyone interested in each type of color needs to agree on a specific Pantone number. The Pantone color on the screen does not match the actual paint color - to see something close to the actual color you'd need to go to a hardware store and look at their pantone book. Also the factory will not guarantee a match with the Pantone color you choose, just a very close approximation of the color, so you'd need to accept that going into the process. Also the factory doesn't guarantee an exact match with my Industrial Grey or off-white original Model F colors, so you'll need to know that there are no guarantees about the accuracy of any of the regular colors. RAL 7030 is not being used.
Very few people want a custom color right now - maybe 10-20 or so for all requests, out of the 249 pre-orders so far.
Red
Silver
Blue
Purple
Dark Grey
White
Pink
Green
A note that unpainted/clear coat/anodized/brushed/electrophoresis coating/sandblasting will not be offered.
OK here are the requested custom colors - please add to the list if I forgot any.Thanks Ellipse, if those colors are the leaders in the custom selections that people have shown interest in, then I'd be down for a white or red (maybe even blue). Perhaps when the time comes we can get a list that specifies which are the most popular selections and how much each color would cost accordingly. From there-- those interested can make an informed decision when choosing which they wanna go with.
Please note that all of these colors require custom tooling and everyone wanting the color must help pay for the tooling. This is different from the custom layout where anyone can get the layout once at least one person pays for the tooling.
Everyone interested in each type of color needs to agree on a specific Pantone number. The Pantone color on the screen does not match the actual paint color - to see something close to the actual color you'd need to go to a hardware store and look at their pantone book. Also the factory will not guarantee a match with the Pantone color you choose, just a very close approximation of the color, so you'd need to accept that going into the process. Also the factory doesn't guarantee an exact match with my Industrial Grey or off-white original Model F colors, so you'll need to know that there are no guarantees about the accuracy of any of the regular colors. RAL 7030 is not being used.
Very few people want a custom color right now - maybe 10-20 or so for all requests, out of the 249 pre-orders so far.
Red
Silver
Blue
Purple
Dark Grey
White
Pink
Green
A note that unpainted/clear coat/anodized/brushed/electrophoresis coating/sandblasting will not be offered.
Ellipse: If you're still considering alternative layouts, I'm interested in an ortholinear layout like this:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/SWt1PY7.jpg)
Source: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62471.msg1721540#msg1721540
Backspace, Enter, and Right Shift: 2u (all optionally splittable)
Bottom row: 1.25u, 1.25u, 1.25u, 1.25u, 2u, 1.25u, 1.25u, 1.25u, 1.25u, 1u, 1u, 1u
Is anyone else interested in this 60% layout?
Is this the default layout (non-HHKB version) you think most people would like for their F62/F77? Of course it would all be regular keys, not the pictured keys and stepped Alt keys. Would most Kishsaver users not getting HHKB split right shift prefer the split backspace with a 1U backspace and a 1U "~ `" key? Should the upper left key be ~` or Esc as the default? Of course you can switch it to other layouts if you want once you have it.
(Attachment Link)
Yes here is a post from DT showing a HHKB option:
(Attachment Link)
The order form will be opened after I approve of the prototypes. The prototypes should arrive by the end of next week hopefully.
Is this the default layout (non-HHKB version) you think most people would like for their F62/F77? Of course it would all be regular keys, not the pictured keys and stepped Alt keys. Would most Kishsaver users not getting HHKB split right shift prefer the split backspace with a 1U backspace and a 1U "~ `" key? Should the upper left key be ~` or Esc as the default? Of course you can switch it to other layouts if you want once you have it.
(Attachment Link)
I vote for `~ as the default, but fully expect to be outvoted. I also would not set up the right side cluster anywhere near like that, but I don't have an issue with any defaults so long as I can fully configure mine.
Is this the default layout (non-HHKB version) you think most people would like for their F62/F77? Of course it would all be regular keys, not the pictured keys and stepped Alt keys. Would most Kishsaver users not getting HHKB split right shift prefer the split backspace with a 1U backspace and a 1U "~ `" key? Should the upper left key be ~` or Esc as the default? Of course you can switch it to other layouts if you want once you have it.
(Attachment Link)
I vote for `~ as the default, but fully expect to be outvoted. I also would not set up the right side cluster anywhere near like that, but I don't have an issue with any defaults so long as I can fully configure mine.
For the F77 that should be the DEFAULT, anyone wanting something else can organize it for themselves.
Remember that when you start offering 1000's of layouts do expect an abysmally high failure rate and your future customers complaining how it didn't work for them. If you stick to one or two layouts for the F77, then things are simple and you could send out all the keyboards within a decent time frame. It's up to the end user to configure their own layouts by themselves with the help of GH community. After all this is why this place is known as Keyboard Central :thumb: .
The prototypes arrived! Today I have been doing some thorough testing. So far they are in good shape for opening up the group buy soon!
I have not followed this project at all up until this point, so please bear with me.
It looks like the confirmed final cost of the board is $325 shipped for everything? Tempting. I saw no mention of what pre-ordering does for you though; any help? Are you just reserving a serial number?
I have to ask though, why not design a TKL Model F (or hopefully there is one in the works? :cool: )? I know there are quite a few of us that would appreciate these switches in a more "traditional" layout.
I have not followed this project at all up until this point, so please bear with me.
It looks like the confirmed final cost of the board is $325 shipped for everything? Tempting. I saw no mention of what pre-ordering does for you though; any help? Are you just reserving a serial number?
I have to ask though, why not design a TKL Model F (or hopefully there is one in the works? :cool: )? I know there are quite a few of us that would appreciate these switches in a more "traditional" layout.
I thought that was the XTAnt project? Didn't they already make boards for that?
I have not followed this project at all up until this point, so please bear with me.
It looks like the confirmed final cost of the board is $325 shipped for everything? Tempting. I saw no mention of what pre-ordering does for you though; any help? Are you just reserving a serial number?
I have to ask though, why not design a TKL Model F (or hopefully there is one in the works? :cool: )? I know there are quite a few of us that would appreciate these switches in a more "traditional" layout.
I thought that was the XTAnt project? Didn't they already make boards for that?
AFAIK, that was simply to "un-butcher" the XT. :)) But maybe I missed something!
I have not followed this project at all up until this point, so please bear with me.
It looks like the confirmed final cost of the board is $325 shipped for everything? Tempting. I saw no mention of what pre-ordering does for you though; any help? Are you just reserving a serial number?
I have to ask though, why not design a TKL Model F (or hopefully there is one in the works? :cool: )? I know there are quite a few of us that would appreciate these switches in a more "traditional" layout.
I thought that was the XTAnt project? Didn't they already make boards for that?
AFAIK, that was simply to "un-butcher" the XT. :)) But maybe I missed something!
Maybe I did too.
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/bringing-the-ibm-pc-xt-into-the-21st-century-t3047-210.html
I have not followed this project at all up until this point, so please bear with me.
It looks like the confirmed final cost of the board is $325 shipped for everything? Tempting. I saw no mention of what pre-ordering does for you though; any help? Are you just reserving a serial number?
I have to ask though, why not design a TKL Model F (or hopefully there is one in the works? :cool: )? I know there are quite a few of us that would appreciate these switches in a more "traditional" layout.
I thought that was the XTAnt project? Didn't they already make boards for that?
AFAIK, that was simply to "un-butcher" the XT. :)) But maybe I missed something!
Maybe I did too.
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/bringing-the-ibm-pc-xt-into-the-21st-century-t3047-210.html
The xtant was just a pcb and barrel plate that recycled the rest of the XT plus needing one extra barrel. After that an xwhatsit controller was needed. The odd part was all the arrow and 6key nav cluster keys are 1.25 unit keys.
I have not followed this project at all up until this point, so please bear with me.
It looks like the confirmed final cost of the board is $325 shipped for everything? Tempting. I saw no mention of what pre-ordering does for you though; any help? Are you just reserving a serial number?
I have to ask though, why not design a TKL Model F (or hopefully there is one in the works? :cool: )? I know there are quite a few of us that would appreciate these switches in a more "traditional" layout.
I thought that was the XTAnt project? Didn't they already make boards for that?
AFAIK, that was simply to "un-butcher" the XT. :)) But maybe I missed something!
Maybe I did too.
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/bringing-the-ibm-pc-xt-into-the-21st-century-t3047-210.html
The xtant was just a pcb and barrel plate that recycled the rest of the XT plus needing one extra barrel. After that an xwhatsit controller was needed. The odd part was all the arrow and 6key nav cluster keys are 1.25 unit keys.
Yes, but you have to admit, it's a lot better than the original layout.
I have not followed this project at all up until this point, so please bear with me.
It looks like the confirmed final cost of the board is $325 shipped for everything? Tempting. I saw no mention of what pre-ordering does for you though; any help? Are you just reserving a serial number?
I have to ask though, why not design a TKL Model F (or hopefully there is one in the works? :cool: )? I know there are quite a few of us that would appreciate these switches in a more "traditional" layout.
I have not followed this project at all up until this point, so please bear with me.
It looks like the confirmed final cost of the board is $325 shipped for everything? Tempting. I saw no mention of what pre-ordering does for you though; any help? Are you just reserving a serial number?
I have to ask though, why not design a TKL Model F (or hopefully there is one in the works? :cool: )? I know there are quite a few of us that would appreciate these switches in a more "traditional" layout.
Hey Hoff, I believe it's $325 excl. shipping and keys (so your choice of keys will add a little or you can use your own).
Yes, $325 sans caps, $350 with Unicomp caps.
Cost would be the same for the smaller case, if there's enough interest. With 10-20 keyboards' worth of interest in the smaller case right now, it doesn't look promising. The parts will be interchangeable if you wanted to convert yours to a smaller case down the line. You would only need to buy a different bottom inner assembly (plus the case itself).
As an update I am taking this week to fully evaluate the prototype parts that arrived yesterday. I expect to open up orders once I'm finished and have taken a video and more professional photos.
On other sites they mentioned some things about the other end of the spring (the end touching the flipper) needing to be in a certain place, but I have found that to be less a priority than the side touching the key stem. Usually this did not make a difference as IBM was very good to make both of most of their spring ends terminate at exactly the same position on opposite sides. Looking at some XT flippers with their springs, I can't even see one error on IBM's part.
I'd also be one of the one interested in the more traditional TKL layout.
Can we get a carbon fiber infused case with little pink pony's hopping around with clacks as legs?
Very interested in knowing if this resurrection of the Model-F is a triumph or another failure because trying to emulate their early designs isn't easy, maybe that is why all manufacturers didn't even try to build these switches once IBM dropped them, it's just way too complicated.
The Model F is the Gillette Fat Boy of keyboards. It just takes a very discerning consumer to appreciate it.
I'd also be one of the one interested in the more traditional TKL layout.
The 77 is the closest you will get to a traditional TKL layout aside from the Xtant.
Melvang - yes you can have an HHKB-type layout with the standard layout if you are willing to have the 1U key to the left of the caps lock style key in the right shift area. The split right shift board alters both right shift barrel positions to allow the caps lock key to the left and the 1U Function key to the right in the right shift area.
Melvang - yes you can have an HHKB-type layout with the standard layout if you are willing to have the 1U key to the left of the caps lock style key in the right shift area. The split right shift board alters both right shift barrel positions to allow the caps lock key to the left and the 1U Function key to the right in the right shift area.
I didn't realize there would be alternate layout options available. Will the HHKB-type layout be available on the 77-key, or just the 62-key?
Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to make this a reality. How easy is it to program the layout? Never used xwhatsit's controller before.
Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to make this a reality. How easy is it to program the layout? Never used xwhatsit's controller before.
My wife could use xwhatsit's software. It has a very nice GUI.
Ellipse, what did you end up using for the voltage threshold if you don't mind me asking?
Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to make this a reality. How easy is it to program the layout? Never used xwhatsit's controller before.
My wife could use xwhatsit's software. It has a very nice GUI.
Ellipse, what did you end up using for the voltage threshold if you don't mind me asking?
lol is there any need to flash any files or anything? Or do you just plug it in and let the GUI handle everything?
Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to make this a reality. How easy is it to program the layout? Never used xwhatsit's controller before.
My wife could use xwhatsit's software. It has a very nice GUI.
Ellipse, what did you end up using for the voltage threshold if you don't mind me asking?
lol is there any need to flash any files or anything? Or do you just plug it in and let the GUI handle everything?
Just download the software, it autodetects the keyboad, change what you need to, hit the save button. done.
I was right, http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/0.9.0/Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to make this a reality. How easy is it to program the layout? Never used xwhatsit's controller before.
My wife could use xwhatsit's software. It has a very nice GUI.
Ellipse, what did you end up using for the voltage threshold if you don't mind me asking?
lol is there any need to flash any files or anything? Or do you just plug it in and let the GUI handle everything?
Just download the software, it autodetects the keyboad, change what you need to, hit the save button. done.
sounds good thanks. Do you have a link where I can download it?
Success! Success! Success!
I just assembled the F62 prototype complete inner assembly and can confirm that this Model F redesign project is a success! It truly deserves the Model F moniker. We will be going forward with the group buy before month end. I will definitely continue testing and making the final pre-production adjustments as the prototypes are not 100% (nor were they expected to be perfect!). I have made and will keep making design adjustments even as small as 0.1 mm to make them good.
Keys buckle correctly and are recognized on the computer - the new capacitive flippers do their job just as well as the originals so far. There are no ghost signals as of yet. The keyboard sounds eerily similar to my little used, original refurbished 77 key 4704 with Ensolite foam (the project uses Neoprene/EDPM type foam from McMaster-Carr) - you can tell the difference between the two but it was a lot closer than expected. Of course it does sound different from my worn out F's with degraded foam (the F77 original, and just about each Model F in my collection, sounds different from just about every other Model F!). The keys are crisp and have a solid amount of musicality to them like the original 77 key 4704 - far from the point where it would annoy most people in my view (some F's have more musicality, some have less).
One interesting note is that the improved manufacturing processes and tolerances have allowed for a more consistent sound to each key - granted the keys do sound different from each other and still have a mildly musical quality to them, though they are less random in their sound. These better tolerances also make for more consistent barrels. In test measurements I have noticed very low sample to sample variation.
Also the final barrel molds were completed - these samples will be with the final barrel design. Each barrel will have a number on its underside since I ordered a multi-cavity mold. IBM gave a code to each barrel so they could know when a mold cavity needed to be adjusted if it was producing out-of-spec injection-molded parts.
I will continue making the hand adjustments to the prototypes and making those adjustments in the CAD files. Before opening orders I want the prototypes to be as close to the final production units as possible and I want to take photos and make a video beforehand.
Olumin - the final version will look like the originals but is not 100% the same on the inside - for example a new USB controller instead of IBM's terminal controller. $325 is the price for the keyboard. I will also do a group buy for brand new Unicomp keys (check their web site for pricing and options available). Yes caps can be swapped with Model M or Model F caps, or Unicomp caps. Yes you have to pay taxes, fees, shipping if applicable to your country (these ship from New York). You can adjust the layout afterwards but it will be a regular Model M style layout in a 60% form factor as the default. The keyboard works once you plug in the USB cable, or you can configure it. You can set any function layer you want (any suggestions on default function layers to include with the F62/F77?). Yes you can order F1, F2 etc. front printed keycaps as long as Unicomp does not run out of stock.
I may have to try to raise some funds for this.. the Canadian dollar hurts really bad right now though.:'( That graph tells the whole story
I may have to try to raise some funds for this.. the Canadian dollar hurts really bad right now though.
Maybe it's time to liquidate my extra boards for a Kish...
Can we get a carbon fiber infused case with little pink pony's hopping around with clacks as legs?
SUCCESS! now the wallet hurt begins :confused:
Success! Success! Success!
[SNIP]
SUCCESS! now the wallet hurt begins ???
Right? I was going to try and pay the Duck Octagon v2 next month, but the wallet permits only one. Sorry, Duck; I've dreamed of owning one of your boards for years, but a new Model F is a chance of a lifetime. :-\
In the buckling spring graphics, the wall of the keycap seems a little curved. It looks more like a SA profile cap, but most if not all model F do not use SA caps. The walls of model F caps are flat.
Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.
Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.
If you want to live the dream - keep the original cable as is. Remember that WE are in this GB because it's a Model-F creation hence you don't defame or remove any original appointments delivered in this package.
It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice, so why would you disembowel a perfect Model-F to run a removable usb cable? You'll be cutting off it's 'originality' just so you could be with the "hip crowd" here on GH Central, damn them all to hell, leave this keyboard as is >:( .
Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.
If you want to live the dream - keep the original cable as is. Remember that WE are in this GB because it's a Model-F creation hence you don't defame or remove any original appointments delivered in this package.
It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice, so why would you disembowel a perfect Model-F to run a removable usb cable? You'll be cutting off it's 'originality' just so you could be with the "hip crowd" here on GH Central, damn them all to hell, leave this keyboard as is >:( .
So where does this put me?
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Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.
If you want to live the dream - keep the original cable as is. Remember that WE are in this GB because it's a Model-F creation hence you don't defame or remove any original appointments delivered in this package.
It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice, so why would you disembowel a perfect Model-F to run a removable usb cable? You'll be cutting off it's 'originality' just so you could be with the "hip crowd" here on GH Central, damn them all to hell, leave this keyboard as is >:( .
So where does this put me?
(Attachment Link)
A guy with a snazzy tiny at-at that likes putting stickers on stuff
Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.
If you want to live the dream - keep the original cable as is. Remember that WE are in this GB because it's a Model-F creation hence you don't defame or remove any original appointments delivered in this package.
It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice, so why would you disembowel a perfect Model-F to run a removable usb cable? You'll be cutting off it's 'originality' just so you could be with the "hip crowd" here on GH Central, damn them all to hell, leave this keyboard as is >:( .
So where does this put me?
(Attachment Link)
A guy with a snazzy tiny at-at that likes putting stickers on stuff
Thats my AT-AT posing with my AT.
Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.
If you want to live the dream - keep the original cable as is. Remember that WE are in this GB because it's a Model-F creation hence you don't defame or remove any original appointments delivered in this package.
It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice, so why would you disembowel a perfect Model-F to run a removable usb cable? You'll be cutting off it's 'originality' just so you could be with the "hip crowd" here on GH Central, damn them all to hell, leave this keyboard as is >:( .
Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.
If you want to live the dream - keep the original cable as is. Remember that WE are in this GB because it's a Model-F creation hence you don't defame or remove any original appointments delivered in this package.
It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice, so why would you disembowel a perfect Model-F to run a removable usb cable? You'll be cutting off it's 'originality' just so you could be with the "hip crowd" here on GH Central, damn them all to hell, leave this keyboard as is >:( .
So where does this put me?
(Attachment Link)
A guy with a snazzy tiny at-at that likes putting stickers on stuff
Thats my AT-AT posing with my AT.
Yeah agreed. The total replication of this is what makes it very special. On the other hand if you are going to tote this around (maybe you want a workout?) having a removable cable is always good, and using an extension usb is definitely the way to go.
I may have to try to raise some funds for this.. the Canadian dollar hurts really bad right now though.:'( That graph tells the whole storyShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/9HAo2GZ.png)
I may have to try to raise some funds for this.. the Canadian dollar hurts really bad right now though.:'( That graph tells the whole storyShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/9HAo2GZ.png)
#ZumaMustFall. That ass has made being a keyboard and PC enthusiast a curse.
I may have to try to raise some funds for this.. the Canadian dollar hurts really bad right now though.:'( That graph tells the whole storyShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/9HAo2GZ.png)
#ZumaMustFall. That ass has made being a keyboard and PC enthusiast a curse.
That is where our Dollar is going, hence why the fuss?
We have a so-called advanced democratic system (Australia) and both 2 party system, guarantees a lower dollar to boost our 3rd world industries of Agriculture and Mining. Wait on, this is nothing to be proud of here at all but the media keeps telling us this everyday, on how lucky we are......... :'(
Just a quick poll: What colours / layouts / Model are you guys going for?
I'm going F62 black with blank black keys (HHKB style - I know sorry Elrick I just love that fn key, I probably would have gone standard layout and just had a 1u shift on the right but blank black key limitations have forced me this way - Unicomp not making std right shifts and also not making unstepped capslock keys)
I'm going F62 black with blank black keys (HHKB style - I know sorry Elrick I just love that fn key, I probably would have gone standard layout and just had a 1u shift on the right but blank black key limitations have forced me this way - Unicomp not making std right shifts and also not making unstepped capslock keys)
THE TIME HAS COME!
Can't recall, did these end up being cast or milled aluminum?
What would the deadline be for early bird? Are birds involved?
But srs deadline?
What would the deadline be for early bird? Are birds involved?
But srs deadline?
I believe it's 22/2.
Any more early bird tooling volunteers? So far 9 of you have volunteered to kick in $100 for the early bird tooling costs out of the 15 needed. It helps everyone get their keyboards in April/May instead of August/September, and you get moved towards the front of the line and get your keyboard tested and mailed earlier.
I'm typing on the brand new Model F62 keyboard! I just did a typing test and the keys/my typing were 100% accurate and I was able to type even faster than on my original Model F! The F62 has been completely assembled. I still have to assemble and test the F77 and continue my testing.
Elrick I will let you know! It should be by the end of the month, maybe as soon as this weekend! The prototype is tested and working 100% but I want to get the professional-looking photographs and video up on the site beforehand.
Elrick I will let you know! It should be by the end of the month, maybe as soon as this weekend! The prototype is tested and working 100% but I want to get the professional-looking photographs and video up on the site beforehand.
Well Elrick the link is already out there - modelfkeyboards.com - it's just that ordering is disabled :)
Everyone feel free to check out the site and point out errors. I haven't finalized shipping costs yet as I have not weighed the final keyboards with packaging. The other pricing should be accurate unless Unicomp changed their pricing recently.
The photos are stand-in photos and will be replaced with new photos before ordering opens. The YouTube video on the home page doesn't exist yet so it's just a placeholder box there.
It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice
Well Elrick the link is already out there - modelfkeyboards.com - it's just that ordering is disabled :)
Everyone feel free to check out the site and point out errors. I haven't finalized shipping costs yet as I have not weighed the final keyboards with packaging. The other pricing should be accurate unless Unicomp changed their pricing recently.
The photos are stand-in photos and will be replaced with new photos before ordering opens. The YouTube video on the home page doesn't exist yet so it's just a placeholder box there.
How's next week for a Manhattan keyboard meetup to see the new F62/F77s and any other keyboards people want to bring (hoping for some original Model F's, M's, beamsprings, etc.)?
Can anyone volunteer a Manhattan venue to host the keyboard meetup? Maybe someone in the tech industry with permission to use a conference room for the meetup?
How's next week for a Manhattan keyboard meetup to see the new F62/F77s and any other keyboards people want to bring (hoping for some original Model F's, M's, beamsprings, etc.)?
Can anyone volunteer a Manhattan venue to host the keyboard meetup? Maybe someone in the tech industry with permission to use a conference room for the meetup?
Forget about Manhattan, do the meetup in Chicago. :cool:
Nope ir0n. It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief. You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside.
Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard. There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable. You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.
Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.
If you want to live the dream - keep the original cable as is. Remember that WE are in this GB because it's a Model-F creation hence you don't defame or remove any original appointments delivered in this package.
It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice, so why would you disembowel a perfect Model-F to run a removable usb cable? You'll be cutting off it's 'originality' just so you could be with the "hip crowd" here on GH Central, damn them all to hell, leave this keyboard as is >:( .
Thanks ryahirv I appreciate it!
A note for all the early bird tooling volunteers - to make it easy I just added a cart item called "Early Bird Tooling Volunteer" - please add that to your cart when placing your order. Your order will get moved towards the head of the line in terms of when I test and ship your keyboard, as well as getting an earlier serial number and your user name will be included on the label inside the keyboard.
This puts us at 12 early bird volunteers out of the 15 needed (assuming no one changes their mind)!
Yes please use the notes section for requests and I will try.
If you want to switch ctrl and caps lock you will need to either get blank caps or pay $4 for the Unicomp caps with switched legends.
I think the order form should have drop downs to allow customizing some of the flipper/stabilizer choices (with images or illustrations highlighting the difference each choice makes). I think the default drop down choice should be the first listed for each of these:
ANSI backspace or split into two keys?
ANSI enter and \| keys, or ISO Enter key?
ANSI left shift, or ISO short left shift + extra key?
[F77] two individual keys, or numpad-style double size vertical + key?
[F77] two individual keys, or numpad--style double size vertical Enter key?
These are choices that will be easier to have done by the factory during assembly. I know it's not super difficult to dismantle and reconfigure (I've ANSI-fied F122s), but for the price it would be nice not to have to do that, and just customize the key caps themselves.
Also, please remember to list separately orderable products for:
Extra F62 packaging (gotta give my original Kish a nice storage home)
Extra F62 foam mats
Maybe F77 versions of the above, though I know there are only a couple of those known to exist.
Extra painted F62 cases, for those who want them.
On the current webside, F62 with ANSI keys is listed at $359 and F62 without keys is $325. This seems more expensive than standard Unicomp set. Am I missing something?
Any more early bird tooling volunteers? So far 9 of you have volunteered to kick in $100 for the early bird tooling costs out of the 15 needed. It helps everyone get their keyboards in April/May instead of August/September, and you get moved towards the front of the line and get your keyboard tested and mailed earlier.Sign me up!!! Just drop me a pm where to send money :p
Correct I have not decided on CNC vs. mold for the case just yet. I hope to do a mold for metal cases as an upgrade from CNC milled aluminum.
Karura the key is to use photos extensively - I send photos with the specifications of what I am looking for, and they send photos of what they make before they send it to me. They didn't agree to make the molds, I paid for the molds ;). The problem is the high MOQ and tooling costs associated with each run. Also not everything is made with a mold - setting up the machines to make all the different parts in a Model F costs a bundle. The MOQ for the barrels and flippers, for example, is tens of thousands of each of them. Therefore I am doing the early bird run and the regular run in a big batch.
ccc24 the keyboard will arrive to you pre-programmed for the layout you choose. Of course you'll want to configure the layers and such (I will put in a default function layer for everyone).
Who has suggestions for the Kishsaver function/2nd layer?
You need to take the plates apart to move flippers.
You need to take the plates apart to move flippers.
This may be true, bit would add TONS of time shipping inserts from Unicomp to China for the factory to do it.
Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process :)DAMN. Congrats on your beautiful babies Ellipse!
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Could we have a type test video Ellipse :D
Could we have a type test video Ellipse :D
Dude come on, i am out of seamen.
Could we have a type test video Ellipse :D
Dude come on, i am out of seamen.
I just noticed your avatar
whats on your hhkb... thats not what I think it is right? :eek:
Could we have a type test video Ellipse :D
Dude come on, i am out of seamen.
I just noticed your avatar
whats on your hhkb... thats not what I think it is right? :eek:
:blank: as I said, out of seamen.
U WOT M8?Could we have a type test video Ellipse :D
Dude come on, i am out of seamen.
I just noticed your avatar
whats on your hhkb... thats not what I think it is right? :eek:
:blank: as I said, out of seamen.
U WOT M8?
Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process :)
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You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photoFeast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process :)
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Oh SCHWEET GEEZUS, can't believe how beautiful the F77 is sitting inside it's protection packaging. It's like an innocent princess, sleeping in her bed waiting for me to wake her from her slumber ;D .
You've got me salivating for this keyboard more and more each day, I don't think I can last much longer.
You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo
Heheheheh you really can hold the seamen from escaping eh good self control!You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo
Always, just they're getting bigger and bigger each day and soon I'll have to release the pressure.
Women are born lucky but us lot here, suffer from our messed up plumbing and storage sacks ;) .
Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process :)(https://i.imgur.com/zAucx3J.gif)
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I just spilt seamen on my keyboard.
Dude come on, i am out of seamen.
:blank: as I said, out of seamen.
Heheheheh you really can hold the seamen from escaping eh good self control!
Always, just they're getting bigger and bigger each day and soon I'll have to release the pressure.
Women are born lucky but us lot here, suffer from our messed up plumbing and storage sacks ;) .
You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo
Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process :)
Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process :)
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Man, post those pics again, this really looks like we building a tank. I'd love to chose a custom color but gawd dayum that f77 base color is kicking just the way it is. Really, this is like one of the rare ICs that goes all the way to proof of concept shown BEFORE the GB is even in effect.
This is looking pretty good. :thumb:
Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process :)
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its not gross if its for keyboard ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)I just spilt seamen on my keyboard.Dude come on, i am out of seamen.:blank: as I said, out of seamen.Heheheheh you really can hold the seamen from escaping eh good self control!Always, just they're getting bigger and bigger each day and soon I'll have to release the pressure.
Women are born lucky but us lot here, suffer from our messed up plumbing and storage sacks ;) .You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo
Y'all mother****ers are gross.
I'm typing on the brand new F77! It is a great keyboard. Like I said with my F62 evaluation, these keyboards truly deserve the Model F moniker. The keypresses are very sharp and precise, as I'd imagine like a brand new original Model F would sound fresh out of the factory door in 1984, and maybe even a little better due to improvements in manufacturing and tolerances over the past few decades since the Model F's were introduced. There is noticeably less ringing/reverberation on these new prototypes compared to many of my original Model F keyboards, though there is still some musicality and different sounds with each key (though like I mentioned with my F62 evaluation, the keys are more consistent with each other in terms of their sound). I believe part of the reason for less ringing is the improved overall quality of the components which are able to take advantage of improvements in manufacturing accuracy, as well as the use of what I believe is a more dense, stable type of foam (the McMaster-Carr Neoprene/EDPM blend) as opposed to the less dense, disintegrating originals. Also I believe that a lot of the ringing is influenced by the condition of the foam and its relation to the top inner assembly (how tight/even the top inner assembly fits with the bottom inner assembly): the more disintegrated the foam, often the more ringing in general is what I've noticed.
I also tested the split right shift prototype and everything buckles well (though I am unable to test for the software of those two keys since I did not order prototype split right shift PCBs for either the F77 or F62).
The key will be my instructions to the factory regarding the quality control. I will ask them to test each key and make a video showing which keys sound good and which ones should have their springs replaced. For whatever reason about 10 of the springs (they sent me extra springs fortunately) did not pass my quality control. Maybe they were half a mm too tall (or stretched out a little).
A video will be forthcoming...
Thanks xondat. Those F62 photos were taken in my new light tent setup with softbox lighting.
Not sure ctm. If it's not part of xwhatsit's controller software, you could also try this dual role autohotkey script (I have not tried it): https://github.com/lydell/dualWhat firmware does that board use?
Also the xwhatsit controller is not 100% likely. There are some DT users working on replacing xwhatsit's controller with a ~$10 pre-built dev board with capacitive sensing capabilities (it came to market recently), so the F77/F62 keyboards may go with that instead of the xwhatsit controller.
The firmware and GUI are still in development. Here's the thread if you're interested or have more questions for the developer: https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/alternate-ways-of-sensing-teh-fs-t12533.htmlThank you! I will check that out. Not a big deal if it does not support dual role at the end. I probably will need the USB to USB converter in future for some board that are not programmable.
The standard layout supports it with the other way around, but one of the options has altered barrel placement to support it this way, although you can't use a standard right shift if you do that.
Some more prototype photos here! I forgot to order a second caps lock key in the unprinted version so you are seeing one printed key on the F77 unprinted version of the photos in this group:looking good Ellipse. what are the two holes on the bottom of the case in the back? behind the cork feet?
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looking good Ellipse. what are the two holes on the bottom of the case in the back? behind the cork feet?
Some more prototype photos here! I forgot to order a second caps lock key in the unprinted version so you are seeing one printed key on the F77 unprinted version of the photos in this group:
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MoreSome more prototype photos here! I forgot to order a second caps lock key in the unprinted version so you are seeing one printed key on the F77 unprinted version of the photos in this group:
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AAAAhhhhhhhhhh, this place has just relieved me off a whole lot of moolah.
Suddenly Brazzers, NaughtyAmerica and DigitalPlayground are boring compared to this top Keyboard Pron site known as - Geekhack ;D .
Please give us more Ellipse, we want much more pics that includes lots of rear end shots here buddy, especially how the BIG Black Cord plants itself into the innocent Beige-like Casing :thumb: .
ctm the spacebars are the large spacebars from Unicomp. Those are the only Unicomp ones that fit these keyboards.Thank you!
Your older Model M buckling spring space bars will also fit these keyboards. Model F space bars will not fit as the wire stabilizer does not extend as far.
Which options require different hardware (plate, foam, etc)? Just the split right shift? What about the ISO left shift, ISO return, and split backspace? Can all these changes be made by simply moving around springs + buying extra keys?
hashbaz orders are not yet open - I will let everyone know once they open - it should be very soon!
If anyone else is willing to be a volunteer please let me know. Not only do you help out the project and enable people to get their keyboards in April/May instead of August/September, but you also get prioritized in the order that I ship out the keyboards, you get a lower serial number, and you also get your user name on the label inside the keyboard along with all the other major project supporters.
Thanks hashbaz!
Update on the small case: I posted this reply to one of the questions someone posted on modelfkeyboards.com's Q&A page.
You'd be saving about 1.5 to 2 inches in width and about 1 inch in length. The height would be about the same.
So Ellipse, speaking for myself, one reason to wait on reviews from early birds is to find out about the quality of the fab's work when making multiple units, and another is to have more time to save up for these things.I really like the 2-stage ordering process here. A quick first round for those who are early adopters and willing to tolerate some risk, and a second round to pick up the more cautious of us, as well as those who need to save up. Plus that will allow word-of-mouth to drive up demand after the early bird round, among those who haven't even heard about it yet. I think I'm most interested to see if there might even be a third round. It seems like there is a ton of interest already.
Ellipse:
Could you make a board with this type of Model F layout at some point?
http://imgur.com/a/L2FR7
I love the mega large layout.
Ellipse:
Could you make a board with this type of Model F layout at some point?
http://imgur.com/a/L2FR7
I love the mega large layout.
Well obviously we need to compare the original and remake of the model f keyboards directly.
Comparison in sound tests with both audio and visualized sound graphs.
A force chart would also be helpful if that is possible to make.
Another additional thing that should be compared would be the miscellaneous physical properties like case construction and innards.
Well obviously we need to compare the original and remake of the model f keyboards directly.
Comparison in sound tests with both audio and visualized sound graphs.
A force chart would also be helpful if that is possible to make.
Another additional thing that should be compared would be the miscellaneous physical properties like case construction and innards.
I can tell you that the F107 that I stripped of paint had burrs and I guess you could call them lacerations under the original paint. The metal also appeared to not be consistent. I think fohat had the painting shop inform him that these were made of a scrap blend of aluminium. So from that perspective Ellipses version should be considered to be of a higher case quality than the originals as I am assuming his version will be using a decent standard of metal.
Well obviously we need to compare the original and remake of the model f keyboards directly.
Comparison in sound tests with both audio and visualized sound graphs.
A force chart would also be helpful if that is possible to make.
Another additional thing that should be compared would be the miscellaneous physical properties like case construction and innards.
I can tell you that the F107 that I stripped of paint had burrs and I guess you could call them lacerations under the original paint. The metal also appeared to not be consistent. I think fohat had the painting shop inform him that these were made of a scrap blend of aluminium. So from that perspective Ellipses version should be considered to be of a higher case quality than the originals as I am assuming his version will be using a decent standard of metal.
Its not that it is a scrap blend, but the fact that it is cast, and there has been some speculation that it was aluminum or zinc the last I had heard. Cast either of those, can have very inconsistent surface finish in a raw surface.
Well obviously we need to compare the original and remake of the model f keyboards directly.
Comparison in sound tests with both audio and visualized sound graphs.
A force chart would also be helpful if that is possible to make.
Another additional thing that should be compared would be the miscellaneous physical properties like case construction and innards.
I can tell you that the F107 that I stripped of paint had burrs and I guess you could call them lacerations under the original paint. The metal also appeared to not be consistent. I think fohat had the painting shop inform him that these were made of a scrap blend of aluminium. So from that perspective Ellipses version should be considered to be of a higher case quality than the originals as I am assuming his version will be using a decent standard of metal.
Its not that it is a scrap blend, but the fact that it is cast, and there has been some speculation that it was aluminum or zinc the last I had heard. Cast either of those, can have very inconsistent surface finish in a raw surface.
That would be the reason then because it was not pretty under the paint that is for sure. The gouges and jaggard bits of metal were quite large
Well obviously we need to compare the original and remake of the model f keyboards directly.
Comparison in sound tests with both audio and visualized sound graphs.
A force chart would also be helpful if that is possible to make.
Another additional thing that should be compared would be the miscellaneous physical properties like case construction and innards.
I can tell you that the F107 that I stripped of paint had burrs and I guess you could call them lacerations under the original paint. The metal also appeared to not be consistent. I think fohat had the painting shop inform him that these were made of a scrap blend of aluminium. So from that perspective Ellipses version should be considered to be of a higher case quality than the originals as I am assuming his version will be using a decent standard of metal.
Its not that it is a scrap blend, but the fact that it is cast, and there has been some speculation that it was aluminum or zinc the last I had heard. Cast either of those, can have very inconsistent surface finish in a raw surface.
That would be the reason then because it was not pretty under the paint that is for sure. The gouges and jaggard bits of metal were quite large
Could have been a cold pour as well, and then paint to cover the imperfections.
The new F62/F77 springs will have the same actuation force as the originals. The factory has a spring testing machine and has agreed to keep all springs within IBM's original tolerances, which are about three times narrower than with today's Model M's. They tested various original Model F springs to help determine the correct starting point. Of course brand new springs are slightly stiffer, even on originals, and take a little time to loosen up.
Muffinbottoms that is fine with me - you have until the end of February to place an early bird order. For being an early bird tooling volunteer, please let me know as soon as possible but that's fine if you want to wait until early February to place your order.
I picked their dark blue color. You can see their Industrial SSK caps installed on the F77 on modelfkeyboards.com
Ellipse:
Could you make a board with this type of Model F layout at some point?
http://imgur.com/a/L2FR7
I love the mega large layout.
Are you in the market for one of those?
Thanks hashbaz!
Update on the small case: I posted this reply to one of the questions someone posted on modelfkeyboards.com's Q&A page.
The small case is happening, but not for about a month at least. I have not yet started the prototyping process or determined whether there is enough interest to keep the pricing the same for the smaller case. I will let everyone know on pricing in a few weeks once I get a quote from the factory. The dimensions would be about 12.5 inches wide by 6-7 inches by about an inch tall. These are very approximate estimates. You'd be saving about 1.5 to 2 inches in width and about 1 inch in length. The height would be about the same.
Limewirelord yes there will be an early bird round with orders accepted in February, and then a regular round from March through the end of July. The question is can you really wait until August/September to get your made-to-order keyboard :)Sounds like a better timeline for most group buys if that's a 2 month turnaround time form July to September ;D I can wait if I have to especially if that means there's a possibility for a smaller case :p
mashby I was looking for 15 to be able to do the early bird round. One unfortunately dropped out so we are at 11 $100 early bird tooling volunteers now. If anyone else is willing to be a volunteer please let me know. Not only do you help out the project and enable people to get their keyboards in April/May instead of August/September, but you also get prioritized in the order that I ship out the keyboards, you get a lower serial number, and you also get your user name on the label inside the keyboard along with all the other major project supporters.
Hoffman - The early bird tooling volunteers are helping pay the project's tooling costs for an additional, earlier round to get their keyboards in April/May instead of August September. Their payment also benefits them in other ways, including getting their keyboard tested and shipped out to them earlier than everyone else in the round - this could mean up to maybe a month earlier as I am testing every unit one by one before it goes out and that could take a long time. Tooling involves the cost in labor to set up everything needed for production and of setting up the machines that make a product.
Once my run is done, they will re-tool the machine to make something else. You may be thinking of molds specifically, which can be used at a later point in time - not the reason for the tooling volunteers.
Once my run is done, they will re-tool the machine to make something else. You may be thinking of molds specifically, which can be used at a later point in time - not the reason for the tooling volunteers.
I am currently on the fence about early birding - have you mentioned a time frame that we would need to decide by? Sorry if I missed it somewhere.
Muffinbottoms that is fine with me - you have until the end of February to place an early bird order. For being an early bird tooling volunteer, please let me know as soon as possible but that's fine if you want to wait until early February to place your order.
Hoffman - The early bird tooling volunteers are helping pay the project's tooling costs for an additional, earlier round
Hoffman - The early bird tooling volunteers are helping pay the project's tooling costs for an additional, earlier round
Why is there a separate early round at all? Will adjustments be made to the main round based on the early round?
Is it not possible to have a proper short right shift made that is not stepped like the capslock?
All this money and time poured into the project, but an imperfect solution for the HHKB style shift + fn. :(
Is it not possible to have a proper short right shift made that is not stepped like the capslock?I don't consider that a limitation of the project. The issue is Unicomp, and the fact that they have a de facto monopoly on BS key sets in the world. Because there is no competition, we have no leverage to get them to create a non-stepped key in that size, or produce more of the right full size shift in blank black, or a host of other things that would be nice.
All this money and time poured into the project, but an imperfect solution for the HHKB style shift + fn. :(
I understand the project is great, I am too strictly talking about Unicomp.
I take that it would cost too much to request them to create new tooling for the proper full-touch short right shift. Did we try to communicate with Unicomp and see what they have to say?
Another question, I see that the Fn 1u key for the HHKB layout is white, will it be the same colour as the modifiers in the final run to match it?
But then the sound it makes when it types is so good! Oh my goodness. :O
Ellipse, why does one of the item description say that the hhkb layout for f77 will require some modification to xwhatsits controller? Have you got a photo or image of what the hhkb with split backpace looks like?
I know what hhkb style is. There is another option with hhkb style split shift and split backpace...Ellipse, why does one of the item description say that the hhkb layout for f77 will require some modification to xwhatsits controller? Have you got a photo or image of what the hhkb with split backpace looks like?
By HHKB-style, it means split shift, like the F77 here:
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/F62-F77-1024x457.jpg
Split backspace has two 1u keys instead of the 2u backspace.
I'm sad about keycaps so I'm just going to get a regular traditional f62 layout.
I know what hhkb style is. There is another option with hhkb style split shift and split backpace...Ellipse, why does one of the item description say that the hhkb layout for f77 will require some modification to xwhatsits controller? Have you got a photo or image of what the hhkb with split backpace looks like?
By HHKB-style, it means split shift, like the F77 here:
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/F62-F77-1024x457.jpg
Split backspace has two 1u keys instead of the 2u backspace.
I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.
$89 shipping to Australia really kills it
I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.
$89 shipping to Australia really kills it
We could vombine shipping for two or more boards and bring it down
the more australians and if ellipse is ok with it the cheaper it should be. As i am happy to do the division and resent whilst still paying an equal amount. I will do a little research tonight.I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.
$89 shipping to Australia really kills it
We could vombine shipping for two or more boards and bring it down
I'd be up for that. Depends how much we save though and we need to find out how much domestic shipping will cost as well
Fantastic. Let me know mate!the more australians and if ellipse is ok with it the cheaper it should be. As i am happy to do the division and resent whilst still paying an equal amount. I will do a little research tonight.I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.
$89 shipping to Australia really kills it
We could vombine shipping for two or more boards and bring it down
I'd be up for that. Depends how much we save though and we need to find out how much domestic shipping will cost as well
FrostyToast I have put together a video with a typing test and a comparison of different Model F and M keyboards. Please keep in mind that these are prototypes adjusted with hand tools because some measurements were off - they will not sound like the finalized production units.
Every Model F keyboard and Model M keyboard in my collection sounds noticeably different - the goal of this project was not to exactly reproduce the sound of any one Model F keyboard, but I feel that these new Model F keyboards are truly in line with and deserve the moniker of a Model F keyboard as I posted earlier.
Muffinbottoms that is fine with me - you have until the end of February to place an early bird order. For being an early bird tooling volunteer, please let me know as soon as possible but that's fine if you want to wait until early February to place your order.
Steveen my video compares the sound of an F107 example to the new production units. It's really something to have a completely new Model F keyboard that will serve you well for many years and decades to come (hopefully). The older units' springs and other parts may start to corrode or lose their springiness in the decades to come. Many of them have developed a more "muffled" sound over the decades for some reason.
This is an early preview of the video - orders are still not yet open but will be very soon!
Can you ship the board as a 50$ value?
So we can't get tax for it
Edit: Grammar nazi
wouldnt this caps lock key match the hhkb layout or is it in a difrent size?
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CTCL
wouldnt this caps lock key match the hhkb layout or is it in a difrent size?In fact Unicomp does have 1.75 unit non-stepped shift key. You can see that in Unicomp's 106 key Japanese layout, but Unicomp only sells it with the entire set, not as an individual cap.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CTCL
wouldnt this caps lock key match the hhkb layout or is it in a difrent size?In fact Unicomp does have 1.75 unit non-stepped shift key. You can see that in Unicomp's 106 key Japanese layout, but Unicomp only sells it with the entire set, not as an individual cap.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CTCL
It's more of a grey color. Unicomp calls it "pebble". Same color as regular modifiers.wouldnt this caps lock key match the hhkb layout or is it in a difrent size?In fact Unicomp does have 1.75 unit non-stepped shift key. You can see that in Unicomp's 106 key Japanese layout, but Unicomp only sells it with the entire set, not as an individual cap.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CTCL
And I'm assuming that's only in beige?
It's more of a grey color. Unicomp calls it "pebble". Same color as regular modifiers.wouldnt this caps lock key match the hhkb layout or is it in a difrent size?In fact Unicomp does have 1.75 unit non-stepped shift key. You can see that in Unicomp's 106 key Japanese layout, but Unicomp only sells it with the entire set, not as an individual cap.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CTCL
And I'm assuming that's only in beige?
(Image from Unicomp)
Are there going to be any custom keycap colors with dyesubs? I know there are some custom keycap colors for buckling springs lying around on the internet somewhere but I'm not sure how feasible this will be. Getting some repros of those sweet bright blue caps from the SSKs would be a cool thing to see.
Are there going to be any custom keycap colors with dyesubs? I know there are some custom keycap colors for buckling springs lying around on the internet somewhere but I'm not sure how feasible this will be. Getting some repros of those sweet bright blue caps from the SSKs would be a cool thing to see.
Gah I'm paralyzed by choices haha. Color choice, keycap choice, size choice, layout choice....Nice!!! I went with all black and split backspace key... I'm gonna make my right ctrl the fn key... should work out pretty good!!!
Oh and sent you a PM with a couple questions about the ordering process Ellipse :thumb:
*Edit: Order placed! F62 with split shift and split backspace in beige! Thanks again Ellipse!
Oh man oh man oh man it's live!
Gib me a few days to pay rent, but I'm totes going poor for the black F62 w/ regular color blanks mostly to keep the springs in place on shipment, ISO enter because I like my backslash accessible, and bolt-on rubber bumpers.
Nice!!! I went with all black and split backspace key... I'm gonna make my right ctrl the fn key... should work out pretty good!!!
oh yeah and I'm gonna go with the blank RGB mods from unicomp!!!Nice!!! I went with all black and split backspace key... I'm gonna make my right ctrl the fn key... should work out pretty good!!!
I was really tempted to go with all black... now I'm second guessing my choice :p
Did you get the case in black too?
This next month is a tight month so I'm trying to prioritize things.
Just loosen every aperture for some severe servicing sunshine, because you have to work hard for this keyboard and appreciate all the sacrifice that goes into owning one of them ;D .
Oh man oh man oh man it's live!
Gib me a few days to pay rent, but I'm totes going poor for the black F62 w/ regular color blanks mostly to keep the springs in place on shipment, ISO enter because I like my backslash accessible, and bolt-on rubber bumpers.
just curious, but why would blanks hold the springs in place better than say the printed ones?
I was gonna go all black too but I'm thinking of what to do with the right shift. And yeah I went with split backspace as well.
oh yeah and I'm gonna go with the blank RGB mods from unicomp!!!
I think that will look solid and hopefully someday uni will get black blanks back in stock... :-\
Karura the cases will be made of zinc or aluminum (most likely zinc). They will likely be cast from molds as opposed to the CNC milled aluminum prototype cases.What's the difference between cast zinc and CNC aluminum?
I think the cast one is better? but I don't know just my assumption :pKarura the cases will be made of zinc or aluminum (most likely zinc). They will likely be cast from molds as opposed to the CNC milled aluminum prototype cases.What's the difference between cast zinc and CNC aluminum?
Does anyone have any pictures of what the split backspace and right shift would look like on a kish? I went full ANSI, but now I'm second guessing myself.This is mine. I have a normal shift though.
couldn't you just do hhkb without the split shift and make 1.5 right ctrl your fn key...
I think that's what I'm gonna do, but now I have to message ellipse to change my order xD
I need that merdered out setup!!!
Same here. It takes a few mess ups when I switch from my HHKB, but its just as easy.couldn't you just do hhkb without the split shift and make 1.5 right ctrl your fn key...
I think that's what I'm gonna do, but now I have to message ellipse to change my order xD
I need that merdered out setup!!!
That's how I have mine set up right now and it works really well. :thumb:
so i think i want a kish with split right shift, when i select black keys, it says its missing the right shift, does this apply even if i select split right shift layout?
PayPal is a truly horrible platform for group buys for this very reason, unfortunately. :/
I hope it gets resolved soon and reasonably painlessly.
No worries Elrick the group buy is ongoing through the project web site and PayPal has not restricted accepting payments. I am hoping to clear up the matter as soon as possible.
ApocalypseMaow yes you can get the alternate layout with buying the other type of top inner assembly, PCB, and inner foam. You do not need extra parts of you split your backspace, Enter key, or left shift-those can all be done with your existing parts.nice!!! I'll prolly go ahead and throw that on my order too...
ok Elrick!
I recommend ordering an extra case and having it powdercoated one of the standard colors, and then you can remove the powdercoating (there are some threads on Deskthority about people removing their Kishsaver/4704 keyboard's powdercoating).
An unpainted metal case traveling a few weeks on a cargo ship would probably rust.
I recommend ordering an extra case and having it powdercoated one of the standard colors, and then you can remove the powdercoating (there are some threads on Deskthority about people removing their Kishsaver/4704 keyboard's powdercoating).
An unpainted metal case traveling a few weeks on a cargo ship would probably rust.
Must be a pretty impressive boat to transmute zinc or aluminum into iron oxide :p
Zinc is often used as a coating to steel. It's oxidiation process, like aluminum, protects the metals from further corrosion. Zinc will actually oxidize, then react with CO2 to form zinc carbonate.
It should me noted that zinc is a ductile metal, instead of crumbling from an impact or fall, it will break or shatter.
wow - after not even the first week of ordering, almost one-third of those who filled out the interest form have already placed their orders on ModelFkeyboards.com! We still have the rest of this month to take care of everyone else.
Has anyone encountered any problems or errors on the project web site? Does anyone need to pay with a credit card or check and prefers not to go through PayPal.com's guest checkout (no registration required)? Please let me know and I will look into other options.
As an update I contacted two GH members that ika recommended I contact regarding advice for PayPal and I have contacted a manager at PayPal whom some online project managers said helped them with their own frozen PayPal assets.
ApocalypseMaow - it seems like an unpainted case may not rust if made out of zinc instead of aluminum (I haven't decided on the final case material yet but I hope for zinc!). So feel free to specify uncoated/unpainted if you decide to order another case. I can always discuss options with you like cancelling the extra unpainted case or changing it to powdercoated if the factory recommends against it.
I have noticed a lot of people ordering extra F77 and F62 cases. I guess people want to be able to have both cases before these go out of production. After that you would need to buy a whole keyboard in another case color to get the alternate color.
Also the black case / black keys is a popular option.
I'd be in for a small case, anodised would be nice, and I like the sound of removable USB.
Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).
The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....
..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..
Thanks!
Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).
The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....
..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..
Thanks!
Splitting the backspace gives you room for one extra key, making it an F63 instead of F62. This means you can have the full normal 62 keys plus Esc. With only 62 keys, you'd normally have to put `~ on the Fn layer. With a split backspace, \| and `~ go where the backspace would be, and backspace lives where \| would be.
There's also the added benefit of having backspace in a slightly more convenient location, given that it's used dramatically more than \|.
And finally, there's a nice aesthetic to the symmetry of the split backspace layout.
Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).
The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....
..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..
Thanks!
Splitting the backspace gives you room for one extra key, making it an F63 instead of F62. This means you can have the full normal 62 keys plus Esc. With only 62 keys, you'd normally have to put `~ on the Fn layer. With a split backspace, \| and `~ go where the backspace would be, and backspace lives where \| would be.
There's also the added benefit of having backspace in a slightly more convenient location, given that it's used dramatically more than \|.
And finally, there's a nice aesthetic to the symmetry of the split backspace layout.
Thank you!
Is there a photo of the HHKB layout with both of the split options installed?
Looking and not finding it....
Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).
The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....
..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..
Thanks!
Splitting the backspace gives you room for one extra key, making it an F63 instead of F62. This means you can have the full normal 62 keys plus Esc. With only 62 keys, you'd normally have to put `~ on the Fn layer. With a split backspace, \| and `~ go where the backspace would be, and backspace lives where \| would be.
There's also the added benefit of having backspace in a slightly more convenient location, given that it's used dramatically more than \|.
And finally, there's a nice aesthetic to the symmetry of the split backspace layout.
Thank you!
Is there a photo of the HHKB layout with both of the split options installed?
Looking and not finding it....
There isn't one – there was only one F62 prototype made, and it didn't have a split backspace. You can however just look at a HHKB and imagine that it's a big buckling spring keyboard made of metal ;) (with some extra keys at the bottom)
So if looking at the HHKB layout pictures, I would imagine a small backspace key in the top right then?
aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.
ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.
Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp. To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).
The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right. The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides. I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.
Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.
For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.
A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion. I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.
aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.
ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.
Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp. To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).
The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right. The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides. I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.
Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.
For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.
A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion. I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.
@Ellipse:
Do you think the smaller f62 & f77 are both happening?
I'd honestly be happy to still do my early bird $100 to help out and wait for the smaller case version options if they are for sure happening.
For me the elbow/mouse/ergonomic thing is totally real and narrower "bezels" around my keyboards (and thus not as wide overall) are absolutely awesome & a real consideration for me at this point in life.
I don't really want to go f62 w/ macro/function key stuff as I don't know if I'd like it for sure. Maybe it'd be awesome...I just don't know as I've never tried it (with an HHKB or anything)
The narrowest possible f77 certainly sounds right up my alley (again...if it's happening at some point)
Right now I use a RealForce 87U and I just can't imagine going back to anything any wider, so if a narrower f77 isn't happening, I guess the f62 (normal or narrow) would be my only options.
aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.
ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.
Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp. To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).
The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right. The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides. I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.
Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.
For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.
A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion. I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.
@Ellipse:
Do you think the smaller f62 & f77 are both happening?
I'd honestly be happy to still do my early bird $100 to help out and wait for the smaller case version options if they are for sure happening.
For me the elbow/mouse/ergonomic thing is totally real and narrower "bezels" around my keyboards (and thus not as wide overall) are absolutely awesome & a real consideration for me at this point in life.
I don't really want to go f62 w/ macro/function key stuff as I don't know if I'd like it for sure. Maybe it'd be awesome...I just don't know as I've never tried it (with an HHKB or anything)
The narrowest possible f77 certainly sounds right up my alley (again...if it's happening at some point)
Right now I use a RealForce 87U and I just can't imagine going back to anything any wider, so if a narrower f77 isn't happening, I guess the f62 (normal or narrow) would be my only options.
I'd expect to see custom cases for this once these are delivered.
Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.
aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.
ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.
Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp. To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).
The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right. The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides. I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.
Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.
For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.
A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion. I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.
@Ellipse:
Do you think the smaller f62 & f77 are both happening?
I'd honestly be happy to still do my early bird $100 to help out and wait for the smaller case version options if they are for sure happening.
For me the elbow/mouse/ergonomic thing is totally real and narrower "bezels" around my keyboards (and thus not as wide overall) are absolutely awesome & a real consideration for me at this point in life.
I don't really want to go f62 w/ macro/function key stuff as I don't know if I'd like it for sure. Maybe it'd be awesome...I just don't know as I've never tried it (with an HHKB or anything)
The narrowest possible f77 certainly sounds right up my alley (again...if it's happening at some point)
Right now I use a RealForce 87U and I just can't imagine going back to anything any wider, so if a narrower f77 isn't happening, I guess the f62 (normal or narrow) would be my only options.
I'd expect to see custom cases for this once these are delivered.
But don't they require a slightly different internal something also?
I feel like I read that at some point..
i.e. We wouldn't be able to take one of these original F62/F77 model and just case swap to the smaller bezel options - I think we'd have to order them that way from the get go, no?
ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part. Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases.
ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part. Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases.
ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part. Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases.
Ah, that's great! I wasn't sure and it's getting kind of hard to follow all these threads, but that's fantastic and will definitely order a small case with the main board as well! :thumb:
ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part. Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases.
Ah, that's great! I wasn't sure and it's getting kind of hard to follow all these threads, but that's fantastic and will definitely order a small case with the main board as well! :thumb:
Which you getting? 62 or 77?
@Ellipse
On the f62/63 HHKB layout with both split keys, are you able to confirm what others have said about how that would look?
Think something like this :Show Image(http://s18.postimg.org/hk7d30rsp/F62.png)
Seems like the HHKB keys are very compactly placed together and thus makes the consistent use of the Fn layer keys less stressful/tedious perhaps?
@Ellipse
On the f62/63 HHKB layout with both split keys, are you able to confirm what others have said about how that would look?
Trying to get a sense on that one.
I just can't go any wider than my 87u I've decided tonight and so I'm thinking of doing a f62/63 HHKB layout for now and buying an f77 also, once the smaller case is available for that.
@Ellipse
On the f62/63 HHKB layout with both split keys, are you able to confirm what others have said about how that would look?
Trying to get a sense on that one.
I just can't go any wider than my 87u I've decided tonight and so I'm thinking of doing a f62/63 HHKB layout for now and buying an f77 also, once the smaller case is available for that.
The F62 is approximately the same width as the Realforce 87U.
Right...but without arrow keys (and the other keys above) that I could get on the f77 which is *much* wider than the RealForce until the smaller f77 case comes along
Right...but without arrow keys (and the other keys above) that I could get on the f77 which is *much* wider than the RealForce until the smaller f77 case comes along
NOOOOOO, don't mince up the F77 keyboard, it's perfect as is. What the hell is wrong with you, wanting to cut and trim a CLASSIC design down to another plain keyboard :o .
The current shape is an authentic Model-F keyboard that is perfect as is, it's like trying to cut down a Shelby Cobra to look like a Mini, absolute travesty on every scale of human understanding >:( .
Leave it well enough alone because you youngster's will kill yourself when you get older and realize what you have done to something that is sacred and worshiped around the globe as is. Don't mess with perfection otherwise you shall curse the day you even tried to disfigure such a great piece of DESIGN.
Easy tiger!
I assume you're being at least a touch sarcastic? (I hope)
There's nothing "wrong" with me and the sides of the case have no bearing on how wonderful the keys are to use.
There's definitely market space for both. Lots of people in here have inquired about smaller case options.
I just roll my eyes and keep scrolling.
Are there any plans to reviwe the f50 in a later run?
It would accompany the f62 really nice. I did think about a setup like an organ with two levels of keyboards. :eek:
Or does anybody know where I could find a f50?
I am afraid, that the Pay Pal affair could end up bad. And the ppl who pay will have to wait ages for their money to get returned by paypal.
I think the paypal thing is just a verification issue and once they realise it will be all good as ellipse is not doing anything wrong (as far as we know) so it is just their anti-money laundering obligations being fulfilled.
Are there any plans to reviwe the f50 in a later run?
It would accompany the f62 really nice. I did think about a setup like an organ with two levels of keyboards. :eek:
Or does anybody know where I could find a f50?
I am afraid, that the Pay Pal affair could end up bad. And the ppl who pay will have to wait ages for their money to get returned by paypal.
I don't think there would be enough interest for an F50, ellipse actually found a bunch and sold them off a while ago. I have the M version and I used to use it with my SSK. It is a pretty handy set up.
I think the paypal thing is just a verification issue and once they realise it will be all good as ellipse is not doing anything wrong (as far as we know) so it is just their anti-money laundering obligations being fulfilled.
PayPal approves my case!
Here's the current approximate order breakdown:
64 United States
7 United Kingdom
6 Australia
3 Japan
3 Sweden
2 Canada
2 Netherlands
2 Korea, Republic of
1 Poland
1 Spain
1 Germany
1 New Zealand
1 Viet Nam
1 France
1 Austria
1 Hong Kong
1 South Africa
1 Indonesia
1 Ireland
PayPal approves my case!
Good news - I just called PayPal again today and they said they approved my case and will release the funds shortly.
So it is looking like the PayPal issue has been resolved and will not pose any potential problems for this project going forward!
thanks Techno
Here's the current approximate order breakdown:
64 United States
7 United Kingdom
6 Australia
3 Japan
3 Sweden
2 Canada
2 Netherlands
2 Korea, Republic of
1 Poland
1 Spain
1 Germany
1 New Zealand
1 Viet Nam
1 France
1 Austria
1 Hong Kong
1 South Africa
1 Indonesia
1 Ireland
@Elrik the exchange rate is horrendous. It's nearly double-priced
There's gonna be only one of these in my country :DNah not until second round! Haha. I've bought so much other board and I forgot about this one and ellipse save the day on the second round decision!
There's gonna be only one of these in my country :D
There's gonna be only one of these in my country :D
Haha me too :) I am representing South Africa.
There's gonna be only one of these in my country :D
Haha me too :) I am representing South Africa.
Style buddies *fistbump*
Who else has a Realforce 87u in here?
I'm wondering which way I'll be leaning after the honeymoon period wears off with the new F77!
Who else has a Realforce 87u in here?
I'm wondering which way I'll be leaning after the honeymoon period wears off with the new F77!
If you're serious about getting an RF, go for the 55g model because only real enthusiasts go for that model rather than any other. Always go for the MAX in g's when it comes to typing bliss :thumb: .
I had a really nice Model M SSK and they were sort of neck and neck...with nods each way in certain areas. I continue to be worried about the overall width, so I'll definitely be one of those jumping on the slightly smaller case option for the F77 when available.
I haven't measured, but isn't the standard case F77 pretty close to the SSK in overall width?
ryahirv - I am working on a modern case design for the F62/F77 that will look like some of the other high end custom keyboard projects.
Yes this is the same as the narrower case options that will soon be available and can be converted with some effort.
I will make the case as small as possible while still allowing for screws to secure the different pieces of the case together
Great ryahirv. While I usually want to make prototypes for everything before offering it I am thinking that may not be possible to get it in time by the end of February for the early round. Therefore I may open up orderings based on a rendering of the proposed design after I confirm the design and costs with the factory's engineers. I will keep everyone posted.
I am thinking of a very simple ultra-compact rectangular-type case with a bezel, middle section, and bottom metal plate, assembled together by screws that are only visible from the underside of the keyboard. It will probably be made of anodized/brushed aluminum or aluminum with a covering done by electrophoresis, and hopefully with a number of color options including black, silver, and gray. If anyone has specific finishing recommendations for the aluminum case please let me know.
Who would like to attend? Which days and times would accommodate most people do you think?
The factory staff is getting back from Chinese New Year this week - I hope to have an update on the ultra-small cases soon. They are definitely happening, it's a matter of when.
If anyone else is holding out for the ultra-compact case and you haven't told me already, please let me know or post here!
The factory staff is getting back from Chinese New Year this week - I hope to have an update on the ultra-small cases soon. They are definitely happening, it's a matter of when.
If anyone else is holding out for the ultra-compact case and you haven't told me already, please let me know or post here!
ryahirv I will try but then it may require me to extend the deadline a few weeks for the early birds - not sure I want to do that. I don't think the factory can turn it around and deliver prototypes to me so quickly.
I can't remember if I already told you, so I will say it here: I want a small case.
fanpeople.
What do you say, when we get these keyboards, all of us aussies who bought them will need to have a battle royale. Last person alive gets to keep them all.
I mean, I don't like my chances of coming out on top but it's a glorious enough way to go.
fanpeople.
What do you say, when we get these keyboards, all of us aussies who bought them will need to have a battle royale. Last person alive gets to keep them all.
I mean, I don't like my chances of coming out on top but it's a glorious enough way to go.
This is a good idea, for better effects we will all travel from our various locations and meet at the centre of Australia. It shall also begin Hunger Games style. :thumb:
At least our deaths will be swift
fanpeople.
What do you say, when we get these keyboards, all of us aussies who bought them will need to have a battle royale. Last person alive gets to keep them all.
I mean, I don't like my chances of coming out on top but it's a glorious enough way to go.
This is a good idea, for better effects we will all travel from our various locations and meet at the centre of Australia. It shall also begin Hunger Games style. :thumb:
At least our deaths will be swift
only if your opponent wields a full f77. someone with a compact f62 will need a few swings.
Here's the order breakdown so far for those interested (just the main accessory items' orders listed):
118 keyboards: 57 F62 and 61 F77 orders (interestingly the F77s are now in the lead!)
577 extra assembled flippers+springs
370 extra barrels
20 sets of Industrial SSK blue key sets (12 keys per set)
16 sets of front-printed F1, etc. keys
14 pairs of extra steel spacebar tabs
11 extra F62/F77 cases
7 of 13 early bird tooling volunteers have paid so far (one paid more than their $100 share so we did not need anyone else!)
5 extra PCBs
4 Apple/Mac Command/Option keys
2 keyboards upgraded to DHL Express shipping from sea mail
If anyone wants to add accessories/extra keys to their order free to place another order and just choose free local pickup so you don't have to pay shipping twice. Please do include your user name in the notes section.
As I mentioned before (in the off topic thread), I'd like to set up a public meeting for anyone who wants to try out the Brand New Kishsaver F62/Industrial F77 keyboards in person in Manhattan. I also invited two professional tech news writers to stop by and maybe even do a quick first look review (they are interviewing me on the subject of this project).
Who would like to attend? Which days and times would accommodate most people do you think?
I was thinking Thursdays in the early evening, so how about Thursday 2/25 at 7 PM? I think Mondays, Fridays, and weekends are too busy for most people.
I'd also invite attendees to bring their own keyboards for comparison if interested.
Wednesdays would be fine with me too - how about Wednesday 2/24 for those interested?
Morefanpeople.
What do you say, when we get these keyboards, all of us aussies who bought them will need to have a battle royale. Last person alive gets to keep them all.
I mean, I don't like my chances of coming out on top but it's a glorious enough way to go.
This is a good idea, for better effects we will all travel from our various locations and meet at the centre of Australia. It shall also begin Hunger Games style. :thumb:
At least our deaths will be swift
only if your opponent wields a full f77. someone with a compact f62 will need a few swings.
Poor children, ........the ONLY real way to WIN is to sharpen a flat blade screwdriver and insert it into the chest cavity and/or base of skull, on your victim(s) 8) .
It's quiet and they won't even feel it, that's how you dispatch any possible opponent when it comes to grabbing this prize.
Looking great!
Any shots of F77 smaller case?
ryahirv - not just yet - it should be the same design though, but with the bezel in between the "main section" and the 15 keys on the right.
romevi the angle will be available through different sized bumpers. The case will initially sit flat like the original F62 and F77.
ryahirv - not just yet - it should be the same design though, but with the bezel in between the "main section" and the 15 keys on the right.
romevi the angle will be available through different sized bumpers. The case will initially sit flat like the original F62 and F77.
ryahirv - not just yet - it should be the same design though, but with the bezel in between the "main section" and the 15 keys on the right.
romevi the angle will be available through different sized bumpers. The case will initially sit flat like the original F62 and F77.
I actually kinda like the look of the original case. It looks different.
So do we have options on which case to choose? Or will the ultra compact one be the final design?
I actually kinda like the look of the original case. It looks different.
So do we have options on which case to choose? Or will the ultra compact one be the final design?
The original is what everyone will get. The slim case is an alt add-on.
Yes you can get a custom color for about $100 extra for tooling. Just specify the Pantone color.
(Attachment Link)
I think it'd be easier to have the IC closed and everything discussed in the GB. Maybe even open a new thread to discuss the small case design?
Just a thought.
As an update, the factory is still looking over my draft designs for the small case.
A discussion also started over on DT regarding my original project goal to produce high quality, XT style, one piece keycaps for this project. The project has definitely exceeded expectations with over $65,000 in orders in the first month, so I will look more into making my own one-piece keys of the highest quality for this project. It is making less and less sense to put $10,000 towards Unicomp caps when those funds could go towards the one-piece XT quality production. The factory has dye-sub capabilities and equipment and is willing to take on keycap production. I would probably have to make all the molds because of the slight color difference in Unicomp/IBM Model M caps vs. XT caps. Nothing is finalized just yet!
A discussion also started over on DT regarding my original project goal to produce high quality, XT style, one piece keycaps for this project. The project has definitely exceeded expectations with over $65,000 in orders in the first month, so I will look more into making my own one-piece keys of the highest quality for this project. It is making less and less sense to put $10,000 towards Unicomp caps when those funds could go towards the one-piece XT quality production. The factory has dye-sub capabilities and equipment and is willing to take on keycap production. I would probably have to make all the molds because of the slight color difference in Unicomp/IBM Model M caps vs. XT caps. Nothing is finalized just yet!
They would be made by the factory and I would be ordering the buckling spring molds, same as with the other molds for this project.Would that be part of this GB still?
I was seriously considering a F77 until I see the shipping cost! Ouch! I think I should just backed out now. What a bummer!
ctm the new caps will be pearl/pebble. If you are picky like me yes the shades of the colors can be told apart when both keys are next to each other. But the factory should have the capability to make switched legends on the ctrl and caps lock keys, as well as printing Fn for the function key.Will 1.75U ctrl and 1.5u Fn be on the plan? Also will this set ship with early bird Model F's in April/May?
Also I am looking into having a non-stepped caps lock and non-stepped split right shift key for this project, as part of the one-piece keys being made from scratch in China. Of course extras could be ordered - extra key sets and non-stepped 1.75U keys.
Non stepped is my pref for sure
Non stepped is my pref for sure
I vomit in your general direction.
Non stepped is my pref for sure
I vomit in your general direction.
Why is there an IC and GB thread currently active? Why not just lock down this thread and continue the conversation on the GB thread since it's no longer in interest check stage. Two threads is pointless.
laden3 everyone would be getting the higher quality one-piece keys that I expect to make, including the early birds.Do you mean new XT quality cap production will be finished in about one month? I have never seen such fast keycap production :eek: (have been waiting for Matias PBT caps for a year and still waiting...)
Unicomp has non-stepped caps lock so you'd always be able to buy a key from them for $2 if you prefer the caps lock to be stepped but want the XT quality one piece keys.
laden3 everyone would be getting the higher quality one-piece keys that I expect to make, including the early birds.Do you mean new XT quality cap production will be finished in about one month? I have never seen such fast keycap production :eek: (have been waiting for Matias PBT caps for a year and still waiting...)
Unicomp has non-stepped caps lock so you'd always be able to buy a key from them for $2 if you prefer the caps lock to be stepped but want the XT quality one piece keys.
ctm - I specified a shipping timeframe of April/May, meaning production will definitely take more than one month.That's still a very tight time frame. Tooling prototyping etc... Very impressive :thumb:
With delays on the factory side in getting back to me and getting everything ready for production, we are looking towards the latter end of that April/May timeframe in my updated estimate.
I want to get every detail right for this project even if it causes a delay. The factory has been very patient with me so far :)
ctm - I specified a shipping timeframe of April/May, meaning production will definitely take more than one month.That's still a very tight time frame. Tooling prototyping etc... Very impressive :thumb:
With delays on the factory side in getting back to me and getting everything ready for production, we are looking towards the latter end of that April/May timeframe in my updated estimate.
I want to get every detail right for this project even if it causes a delay. The factory has been very patient with me so far :)
Yeah I agree. Three months production time is basically instant gratification on this forum. :))
ctm - two-piece Unicomp caps in my opinion are comparable to some later production, original run Model M caps - the legends are less thick/bold and the top of the key caps are more shiny/slippery. They are still great to use.Wow they look great! Have you decided what non-standard legends will be included in the set? I vote for 1.75u Ctrl, 1.5u Fn and 1u Alt (I want to make right part of bottom row Fn-Alt-Ctrl and would like to replace caps lock with Ctrl).
The XT caps are one-piece, deep black legends, with a more textured key surface.
I wouldn't say all XT caps are better than AT - it depends on the date of manufacture of your keyboard and the amount of wear on the keys. 1984 and earlier tend to have the best quality in my experience.
Here are photos of the one piece keys on my NIB F77 (original), NIB PC AT, and little-used F122 (photos in that respective order):
For the F122 photo I have placed two Model M key caps (the "O" and "K" keys) on top of the original Model F keys for comparison.
The shininess is not actually in person but just due to the camera flash. It is difficult to photograph the keys 100% accurately.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
ctm I don't believe the factory is limited to printing certain legends only on certain key caps - I will look more into this in the coming weeks.
ctm I don't believe the factory is limited to printing certain legends only on certain key caps - I will look more into this in the coming weeks.I was more concerned about whether there will be enough interest to produce those caps, especially 1u Alt.
I can get a brand new compact BS keyboard that uses the better Model F design along with improved hardware, all for a better price too. :thumb:
Ugh I want to join this GB but there is no option for split spacebar :'(I can get a brand new compact BS keyboard that uses the better Model F design along with improved hardware, all for a better price too. :thumb:
Too right, I wouldn't touch an SSK anymore when Ellipse presented his design. In fact he righteously saved hundreds of people from tossing their money away on old, defective hardware for a brand new Model-F switched keyboard, which is far superior to all the SSKs that were previously sold on Ebay.
Time to get smart and join the Geekhack train to a new destination known as Capacity City, home town of the Greatest Keyboard Switch that was ever made 8) .
Time to get smart and join the Geekhack train to a new destination known as Capacity City, home town of the Greatest Keyboard Switch that was ever made 8) .
Ugh I want to join this GB but there is no option for split spacebar :'(I can get a brand new compact BS keyboard that uses the better Model F design along with improved hardware, all for a better price too. :thumb:
Too right, I wouldn't touch an SSK anymore when Ellipse presented his design. In fact he righteously saved hundreds of people from tossing their money away on old, defective hardware for a brand new Model-F switched keyboard, which is far superior to all the SSKs that were previously sold on Ebay.
Time to get smart and join the Geekhack train to a new destination known as Capacity City, home town of the Greatest Keyboard Switch that was ever made 8) .
ellipse if there is enough interest can you pls make a split spacebard
Ugh I want to join this GB but there is no option for split spacebar :'(I can get a brand new compact BS keyboard that uses the better Model F design along with improved hardware, all for a better price too. :thumb:
Too right, I wouldn't touch an SSK anymore when Ellipse presented his design. In fact he righteously saved hundreds of people from tossing their money away on old, defective hardware for a brand new Model-F switched keyboard, which is far superior to all the SSKs that were previously sold on Ebay.
Time to get smart and join the Geekhack train to a new destination known as Capacity City, home town of the Greatest Keyboard Switch that was ever made 8) .
ellipse if there is enough interest can you pls make a split spacebard
I don't think this is doable without making a different PCB and plate o.o
and I think that would cost a lot more than it would be worth doing
Ugh I'm sad that I need to pass this GB
I'm done with standard layout yoUgh I'm sad that I need to pass this GB
Why? It's not ending until the end of June!
To each their own, for sure, but I really really don't understand passing up this historic GB over a spacebar.
Ugh I'm sad that I need to pass this GB
I expect them to ship from the factory towards the end of the April/May timeframe, but things are going slower than expected doing the final pre-production discussions with the factory.
I was hoping to start testing and shipping them out individually in May as well, but that is now looking to be late May or June.
I expect them to ship from the factory towards the end of the April/May timeframe, but things are going slower than expected doing the final pre-production discussions with the factory.
I was hoping to start testing and shipping them out individually in May as well, but that is now looking to be late May or June.
I guess it'll be a birthday present to myself then :)
Haha hi5! Sure beats socks and tiesI expect them to ship from the factory towards the end of the April/May timeframe, but things are going slower than expected doing the final pre-production discussions with the factory.
I was hoping to start testing and shipping them out individually in May as well, but that is now looking to be late May or June.
I guess it'll be a birthday present to myself then :)
Haha me too :)
Haha hi5! Sure beats socks and tiesI expect them to ship from the factory towards the end of the April/May timeframe, but things are going slower than expected doing the final pre-production discussions with the factory.
I was hoping to start testing and shipping them out individually in May as well, but that is now looking to be late May or June.
I guess it'll be a birthday present to myself then :)
Haha me too :)
Are there someone that wants a split spacebar option on the kishsaver? cause I really want a split spacebar :thumb:
If there's enough interest on a split spacebar can we make it happen on the regular round ellipse?
For those interested in the Ultra compact F62/F77 cases, what kind of case colors should be offered? I expect them to be anodized or done with another process, but not powdercoated/painted like the original style cases.
For those interested in the Ultra compact F62/F77 cases, what kind of case colors should be offered? I expect them to be anodized or done with another process, but not powdercoated/painted like the original style cases.
For those interested in the Ultra compact F62/F77 cases, what kind of case colors should be offered? I expect them to be anodized or done with another process, but not powdercoated/painted like the original style cases.
For those interested in the Ultra compact F62/F77 cases, what kind of case colors should be offered? I expect them to be anodized or done with another process, but not powdercoated/painted like the original style cases.
For those interested in the Ultra compact F62/F77 cases, what kind of case colors should be offered? I expect them to be anodized or done with another process, but not powdercoated/painted like the original style cases.
Quick question.
If I have never used capacitative buckling springs before, would the IBM Model F AT be a good choice to get a feel for the switch?
I've only had the pleasure of owning a single Model M in my life.
Sorry no photos yet of the keys. Things are going slower than expected but I am still aiming for the end of May for the keyboards to ship from China.
Regarding the prototyping of the smaller xwhatsit controller being used for this project, the main designer of this updated controller would like some help. Please PM me or post here if you can help with soldering SMT components for a prototype controller that he designed.
This controller is expected to be an open source, more compact version of the xwhatsit Model F controller that is half the width and uses more standard 0.1" pitch ribbon cable.
Yep your message went through.thx - just responded again
Yep - sorry for the delay - I'm still not yet ready to take orders for the ultra compact cases - I am hoping to by month end.
Yep - sorry for the delay - I'm still not yet ready to take orders for the ultra compact cases - I am hoping to by month end.
Most important part, is to get out all the EARLY original orders that were fully paid up.
Don't fall into the trap of providing EVERYONE with keyboards because it's ONLY the ones that have fully paid up for their original F77s and F62s get theirs first, then worry about those wanting 'special' compact keyboards.
Good news - thanks to phosphorglow and wcass the compact xwhatsit controllers are working now! Of course I will do further testing beforehand but it looks like this will not be holding up the project.
Ir0n I noted in recent weeks that we're looking for everything to ship hopefully by the end of June/July at this point, which is delayed from my original overly-optimistic estimates. The good news is that I was able to upgrade everyone to die cast zinc cases from CNC milled aluminum cases. The ultra compact cases will still be aluminum.
What are the benefits of die cast zinc compared to CNC milled Alu? I would have thought milled alu was an upgrade to casting.
bevo was asking about zinc die cast vs cnc'd aluminum, not vs alu die cast.What are the benefits of die cast zinc compared to CNC milled Alu? I would have thought milled alu was an upgrade to casting.
http://www.brillcast.com/aluminum-die-casting.html
TLDR
Advantages of Zinc over Aluminum Die Casting
Weight is a property of zinc that can’t be ignored. It’s roughly 2 ½ times heavier than aluminum
Less machining required for tight tolerances
Superior for decorative finishing
Tough durability
SixtyLife the advantage is that the cases will be closer to the originals. The aim of the project is to reproduce the original Model F metal case as closely as possible - the original 4704 cases were die cast zinc or a mix of heavier metals including zinc, to my knowledge.
SixtyLife the advantage is that the cases will be closer to the originals. The aim of the project is to reproduce the original Model F metal case as closely as possible - the original 4704 cases were die cast zinc or a mix of heavier metals including zinc, to my knowledge.
That is why I am in this Group Buy BECAUSE it's to reproduce the exact same casing of the ORIGINAL 4704. If you did this in Aluminum then I would of bought another Kmac or LZ keyboard instead.
Keep to your original design proposal since that is what caught my interest in the first place :thumb: .
For those who want the ultra compact case option, is the three-piece aluminum case from my reddit post what people are generally looking for?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/46y12u/buying_ultra_compact_f62_f77_model_f_cases_draft/?
My current ultra compact case draft is essentially unchanged, save for the sides being a few mm smaller. I went down to a width of the side edges of the case being 2 mm since the feedback was mostly "make the keyboard as compact as possible" - any further and it would affect the strength of the case in my view.
I'd be interested in popular alternative ultra compact case options too if anyone wanted to share. I think aluminum is the best way to go for those cases as opposed to plastic or some combination of the two.
cjhard please see the renderings a few posts above for how the case is expected to look
Here's a size comparison of the ultra compact and original cases:
(Attachment Link)
Here's a size comparison of the ultra compact and original cases:
(Attachment Link)
Here's a size comparison of the ultra compact and original cases:
(Attachment Link)
The ORIGINAL still moistens my loins without hesitation 8) .
There's something about a solid large keyboard to use that adds that special level of confidence compared to all the dainty, girl-like stuff being released constantly.
My goal is to get as many of these Brand New Model F keyboards out there as possible before final round production ends.
My goal is to get as many of these Brand New Model F keyboards out there as possible before final round production ends.
I suspect there are a silent majority who are waiting for feedback from those who receive round 1. Over the last year quite a few people have gotten burned in group buys so folks are a bit more hesitant now.
If you could get a prototype in the hands of someone like fohat.digs I'm sure that would go pretty far with a lot of folks.
I suspect there are a silent majority who are waiting for feedback from those who receive round 1. Over the last year quite a few people have gotten burned in group buys so folks are a bit more hesitant now.
If you could get a prototype in the hands of someone like fohat.digs I'm sure that would go pretty far with a lot of folks.
before final round production ends.Just found out about this today, when will the final round end? I probably wont have the money for one of these until dec - roughly this time next year(yay moving out of parents...) but man that f77 is one of the most beautiful boards I've ever seen and a new NKRO buckling spring/mode lF board has been my dream board for several years now.
As an update I have been testing the smaller xwhatsit controllers re-designed and assembled by red/wcass/phosphorglow and there are some issues with the prototypes.
I have tested two of the prototypes on 3 different computers (2 desktops and 1 notebook) running Win 7 (one) and Win 10 (two PC's) as well as two different 10 foot USB micro cables and there is an issue: the keyboard stops working after a few minutes and it requires disconnecting and reconnecting the USB cable for it to resume working. Sometimes the threshold in xwhatsit's GUI also resets to a random number, even though I have clicked the store override in EEPROM button and closed and re-opened the utility. I have set column skips where appropriate and that helps make the crashing every few minutes instead of every minute or so.
Also the pad for the "1 !" key shows up as pressed unless the threshold is set to 192 (too high a threshold for any other key to be recognized). Switching the jumper wire for rows 7 and 8 move the affected pad's position on the matrix in xwhatsit's software but it's always the same pad.
Also I saw when testing the columns for strobing that the voltage levels were about 1.7v instead of the 0.7v of the originals and the strobing time was about twice as long (the size of the "rectangles" actually changed depending on which two columns were being tested - possibly due to smaller or more variable trace lengths? This could be due to the smaller board size and total length of the traces and may or may not be an issue affecting operation.
Any extra help is appreciated!
Test with original xwhatsit (1st screenshot) and small xwhatsit (2nd screenshot):
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
With the production delays and tweaks, has the ordering deadline for the primary round been pushed back or is it still the end of June?
I don't know if fohat.digs ordered in the first batch but if he did it would be wise to get him to write a review.
His opinion carries weight.
It's 3/4" on the original style cases and about 2/3" on the ultra compact cases
This photo best explains a good approximation of the HHKB style layout.
Besides some cosmetic changes in the labeling of the keys, the HHKB shifts the 2 barrels in the right shift area a few mm from their normal positions to allow for a short right shift (the caps lock key in the split right shift area of the photo you linked to) as well as a 1U key to the right of that key.
If I go through with my own keys, there will not be any stepped keys except ISO enter for the international layout folks.
(Attachment Link)
MoreThis photo best explains a good approximation of the HHKB style layout.
Besides some cosmetic changes in the labeling of the keys, the HHKB shifts the 2 barrels in the right shift area a few mm from their normal positions to allow for a short right shift (the caps lock key in the split right shift area of the photo you linked to) as well as a 1U key to the right of that key.
If I go through with my own keys, there will not be any stepped keys except ISO enter for the international layout folks.
(Attachment Link)
For pity sake Ellipse, why are you even contemplating wasting time for these pathetic HHKB users?
Honestly for christ sake, if they LOVE their HHKBs then why are they here? They all say how perfect their HHKB keyboards are already so what gives?
Please explain why these cretins wanting you to make for them a Model-F keyboard in the horrid HHKB layout because it doesn't make sense and it keeps the rest of us from receiving OUR original designs, which we have already paid for. Never prostate yourself to any cretinous HHKB user because frankly they can go elsewhere or they can go rub their HHKB where the sun don't shine (preferably).
Sick and tired or decent people trying to placate these morons wanting a HHKB layout and I can't keep quiet anymore, this has to be said.
You do know the HHKB layout has been mentioned and planned for since the first page of this project haha?
Hi Elrick, HHKB is not delaying the project as it was offered from the start of orders in late January.
Hi Elrick, HHKB is not delaying the project as it was offered from the start of orders in late January.
I know, just wish they never bothered because with their supreme arrogance ALWAYS claiming how great their tiny calculator-sized keyboard, seems to rule their sad little worlds.
With people like that best to leave them alone to enjoy that sick fantasy and don't dilute and pollute the great original Model-F layout, which is FAR superior to those sycophants delusion.
HATE all HHKB users with such extreme prejudice >:D . There, got that off my chest because I fear no Evil from the HHKB brigade, let them come for me 8) .
I know, just wish they never bothered because with their supreme arrogance ALWAYS claiming how great their tiny calculator-sized keyboard, seems to rule their sad little worlds.
With people like that best to leave them alone to enjoy that sick fantasy and don't dilute and pollute the great original Model-F layout, which is FAR superior to those sycophants delusion.
HATE all HHKB users with such extreme prejudice >:D . There, got that off my chest because I fear no Evil from the HHKB brigade, let them come for me 8) .
Hi Elrick, HHKB is not delaying the project as it was offered from the start of orders in late January.
I know, just wish they never bothered because with their supreme arrogance ALWAYS claiming how great their tiny calculator-sized keyboard, seems to rule their sad little worlds.
With people like that best to leave them alone to enjoy that sick fantasy and don't dilute and pollute the great original Model-F layout, which is FAR superior to those sycophants delusion.
HATE all HHKB users with such extreme prejudice >:D . There, got that off my chest because I fear no Evil from the HHKB brigade, let them come for me 8) .
Is there no way for you to be a bit more polite and less aggressive in your posts?
This level of negativity, towards anyone else here, simply isn't warranted.
I know, just wish they never bothered because with their supreme arrogance ALWAYS claiming how great their tiny calculator-sized keyboard, seems to rule their sad little worlds.
With people like that best to leave them alone to enjoy that sick fantasy and don't dilute and pollute the great original Model-F layout, which is FAR superior to those sycophants delusion.
HATE all HHKB users with such extreme prejudice >:D . There, got that off my chest because I fear no Evil from the HHKB brigade, let them come for me 8) .
careful, you might cut yourself on all that edginess
Hi Elrick, HHKB is not delaying the project as it was offered from the start of orders in late January.
I know, just wish they never bothered because with their supreme arrogance ALWAYS claiming how great their tiny calculator-sized keyboard, seems to rule their sad little worlds.
With people like that best to leave them alone to enjoy that sick fantasy and don't dilute and pollute the great original Model-F layout, which is FAR superior to those sycophants delusion.
HATE all HHKB users with such extreme prejudice >:D . There, got that off my chest because I fear no Evil from the HHKB brigade, let them come for me 8) .
Is there no way for you to be a bit more polite and less aggressive in your posts?
This level of negativity, towards anyone else here, simply isn't warranted.
I know, just wish they never bothered because with their supreme arrogance ALWAYS claiming how great their tiny calculator-sized keyboard, seems to rule their sad little worlds.
With people like that best to leave them alone to enjoy that sick fantasy and don't dilute and pollute the great original Model-F layout, which is FAR superior to those sycophants delusion.
HATE all HHKB users with such extreme prejudice >:D . There, got that off my chest because I fear no Evil from the HHKB brigade, let them come for me 8) .
careful, you might cut yourself on all that edginess
You guys must be new here. Meet Elrick ;)
Hi Elrick, HHKB is not delaying the project as it was offered from the start of orders in late January.
I know, just wish they never bothered because with their supreme arrogance ALWAYS claiming how great their tiny calculator-sized keyboard, seems to rule their sad little worlds.
With people like that best to leave them alone to enjoy that sick fantasy and don't dilute and pollute the great original Model-F layout, which is FAR superior to those sycophants delusion.
HATE all HHKB users with such extreme prejudice >:D . There, got that off my chest because I fear no Evil from the HHKB brigade, let them come for me 8) .
Good news - the compact xwhatsit controllers are now problem free! joc just sent me his latest firmware with alternative debounce filter which has 100% fixed all issues. wcass and phosphorglow's work on the updated prototype controller fixed the other issues with voltages.
The one "stuck" 1 ! key was likely user error (my error) as I connected the controller to the capacitive PCB for testing by jumper wires which I now know are probably too long for reliable operation. phosphorglow connected my F77 PCB to the compact xwhatsit controller with shorter wire and the stuck key was resolved.
Thanks again to all the hard work of red, wcass, phosphorglow, and joc for making the compact xwhatsit controller a reality!
Will we be able to see pictures of an ultra compact prototype before the final round deadline? I just feel that it would be a lot of money to drop on something of which I don't even know how it compares to the original.
this is the ONE and ONLY Keyboard to ever own in your Life 8) .
this is the ONE and ONLY Keyboard to ever own in your Life 8) .
That made me chuckle, you don't even believe that yourself, do you?
Either way, I know that the OG-style cases will be too big for my purposes, I just like comparisons that's all :)
stoic the intention is to make the ultra compact case keyboards hard anodized for ultimate durability - a non-glossy finish to the aluminum.
And Elrick, the compact cases are now available to order separately if you'd prefer to switch between the two. They include the bottom inner assembly which is the only different part (the other parts are all interchangeable).
Zinc is about 2.6 times as heavy as aluminum.
Would any of the ultra-compact case fans be interested in ordering a heavier zinc ultra-compact case of the same dimensions and design?
Yes romevi. I am hoping to extend the deadline to allow the early bird keyboards to arrive from China, be fully tested on my side, ship out to everyone for testing/usage for at least a month or two but am wondering how much time everyone thinks should be allowed. Too little time and people miss out of the final round, but too much time and those people end up waiting a while to get their order.
phoenix_fire I don't think there will be a significant cost difference - I need to confirm with the factory. I don't know what the zinc finish will be but I expect it to be durable as well (not sure which would be more durable just yet). The main difference is in the weight. The F62 and F77 keyboards I've been using since January as my daily drivers are solid feeling even though the prototype cases were made of aluminum instead of zinc, so either option will be very solid!
I will not ship out anything that is below my standards for this project.
Anyone interested in pad printed black Model M / Model F keys from the new molds? I am looking into pad printing some of the new black one-piece keys - if you're interested please post here or PM me. It will be an added cost, probably $20 or more in my estimate, but the only other way to get printed black Model M /Model F keys is by buying an entire black rare Model M keyboard. The default option is black unprinted so no one's order is being changed unless they want it changed.
Only a few people are interested in the pad printed legends so far. I don't think there's enough interest for a production run of them.
ok, what about laser etched keys? Anyone interested in those?
ok, what about laser etched keys? Anyone interested in those?
IP67 protects against dust or immersion; I don't know about crush or impact resistance of the case or foam.
IP67 protects against dust or immersion; I don't know about crush or impact resistance of the case or foam.
If you're going for the heavy black case then it should survive the pass over a simple pedestrian vehicle.
BUT of course a 45 Tonne Caterpillar, there will be no survivors once it passes over your case that has your darling Model-F still inside. Would be very sad seeing the owner cry after that disaster or even witness what a Model-F would look like after being abused in that way.
Why would you have your model F on the road so that a caterpillar is able to drive over it?
Why would you have your model F on the road so that a caterpillar is able to drive over it?
Car accident sunshine. You're stuck inside the wreckage but you see your loved Model-F case flung out onto the road, then a Caterpillar will appear to totally crush your world and I know when I witness something as horrific as that, I wouldn't want to live anymore.
The Mrs would be happy to inherit everything, so I suppose it's all good for someone in the end 8) .
Lmao oh my..What a series of unfortunate events.
My unprinted black keys will be PBT so they will not have those issues. I also looked into pad printing black ABS keys from my molds but there was no interest so I am not going forward with that.
I also found out a likely explanation for the shininess of Unicomp's black keys. They may have been made not with PBT plastic but with ABS, which tends to shine after a while, or another type of resin. PBT plastic is not a good match for pad printing according to some pad printers I've spoken with.
My unprinted black keys will be PBT so they will not have those issues. I also looked into pad printing black ABS keys from my molds but there was no interest so I am not going forward with that.
ok there will be no ABS keys - they are going to be PBT. I am also planning a limited edition "full Industrial SSK blue" PBT key set
ok there will be no ABS keys - they are going to be PBT.
I am also planning a limited edition "full Industrial SSK blue" PBT key set if anyone's interested - please let me know your interest. Printed and unprinted sets will be available. The factory is matching the blue color from keys I mailed them from my original Industrial SSK. I don't expect to do any other colors given the MOQs for the different plastic colors.
I am also planning on offering the full 104 key set with all keys in Industrial SSK blue. The legends will likely be the standard legends for all the keys (or maybe standard legends and the 12 Industrial SSK keys being their custom legends on the Industrial SSK).
boom. ordered. I'm now poor.
Oh thats easy, ugh the hype is building quickly.
They will come preprogrammed and tested with voltage settings, though you will need to customize the layout with the GUI if you want something slightly different than what it comes with.
They will come preprogrammed and tested with voltage settings, though you will need to customize the layout with the GUI if you want something slightly different than what it comes with.
Great! The HHKB layout with split right shift is a popular layout choice - I did not know so many people preferred it over the ANSI layout.
How difficult would it be to make cherry MX compatible stems for this? I'd like a hhkb style layout with the fn key. Why not make a modern version of the classic.not sure if srs or troll
An update - I am expecting the completed ultra compact case prototype by year end.
Who wants to see a video of the keyboard in action?
Who wants to see a video of the keyboard in action?
evoman - yes you can order ISO with UK keycaps - please pick ISO and then make a note that you want UK keycaps. Yes they are all printed.
ipreferpie (replied over email)
Vizir I now offer a modern version of this keyboard in the form of the ultra compact case F62 and F77 (we recently reached our 50th compact case keyboard order!). It was designed to match the high end modern Cherry MX custom keyboard offerings out there. I also offer these modern keyboards with HHKB style layout with Fn key. This keyboard is using solid one-piece PBT keys made with brand new molds. I'd imagine any plastic Cherry MX to buckling spring adapter piece would make the keys wobbly and flimsy to type on, whether or not it is possible to do. Also the keyboard would look odd with the MX keys sitting much higher up with the barrels exposed more, given the characteristics of the MX key compared to the buckling spring key.
The Compact Case F62 and F77 prototypes arrived and pass inspection!